Why Cops Are Untouchable with Joanna Schwartz - Factually! - 212
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- Is there such a thing as "too much justice"? This week, Adam explores the pressing issue of police violence and accountability with Professor of Law at UCLA School of Law Joanna Schwartz. Together they discuss the challenges faced in holding law enforcement accountable, potential reforms, and explore the role of litigation in seeking justice and fostering meaningful change. Pick up Joanna's book at factuallypod.com/books
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Cops have massive immunity to consequences because they are the ones who will violently enforce the whims of the rich from the will of the rest of us.
That's it.
It really does seem like they've been hiring a lot of mall cops and arming them with surplus tactical gear and armored personnel carriers. In some places at least.
@@ravenward626 Yep. A larping army meant to intimidate the rabble while our Capitalist masters rip the copper wire out of the civilization they are actively destroying.
Yep. Keep it simple.
I find it sad and hilarious they use the phrase "Just a few bad apples" forgetting the original phrase is "A few bad apples spoil the entire barrel."
Especially with "the blue line of silence" to pair it with. They'd just say something about "bootstraps". Why are cops so bad at interpreting really obvious quotes?
Also, you throw out bad apples, and that never gets done either.
@@mookinbabysealfurmittens I wouldn't say that they can't read, but I would say that they don't read. It's not like the quotes aren't well known, all you have to have done during your years of life is pick up some books.
@@mookinbabysealfurmittens Lack of education. Mostly college dropouts
Willful ignorance is the only explanation. They know, they just hope they can convince us otherwise.
This is why I always say we have a legal system, instead of a justice system.
Justice has very little to do with it.
The rich know it's the just-us system. Since only just us rich are allowed justice.
i've never heard teh term "justice system" :D
@@transsexual_computer_faery that's because it's a system that doesn't even pretend to offer you justice.
@@Praisethesunson oh they sure pretend. it's the entire schtick. "to protect and serve" is the american motto. here in sweden the copaganda is differently worded, but cops are still seen as knights in shining armor working to protect the kingdom from the evil gang members and immigrants.
It's more of a vengeance system. Cops do not prevent crime. They have no incentive to, otherwise they'd lose out on taxpayer's money. A crime has to happen to you, THEN you call the cops, and maybe they catch the criminal. But usually, it's a rando patsy, who only gives a false confession because they were threatened, explicitly or implicitly. But cops, the judge, the media, and the general public don't care, as long as there's "closure." And those for-profit prisons make more money.
Ill never forget when, in my mid 20s.. im jogging at night and a cop flashes his lights, stops right in front of me. "Hey pal, whatcha doin?"... im in my running shorts, with an ipod.. he saw what i was doing. "Jogging" i say. He snaps..."You being SMART with me?" My stomch drops right thru the floor... for the next 3 minutes im defending my tone of voice as he tries everything he can to escalate this... and im like "officer, i swear to you... ill swear on anything you want... im not being smart with you... my voice just sounds like this".
He then gets a call on his radio and had to go... tells me i got lucky before he leaves. I wanted to puke. That was the moment that broke my trust of law enforcement forever... and i have cops in my family. All it takes is one cop on a power trip to ruin your life forever. And im convinced that if i werent white.. this cop wouldve shot me.
Expecting police in the USA to think before doing anything is a joke. They are the bottom of the barrel. I've watched a guy barely finish high school, fail out of college, get kicked out of fire fighting because he wasn't smart enough to pass their exams, and then become a cop. Within a year he was on a full blown power trip and everyone cheered him on.
It's gross. Our country is sick.
Any, and all, police applicants should be required to undergo a psychological evaluation before being hired and (at least) a biannual exam to retain their position. Granted, there's no chance in hell of something like this (or any real reform) happening so long as police unions hold power unimaginable to other unions.
@@bigshow771 and proper recovery support if they fail their regular evaluations. Don't just kick them to the curb, help them get back in the game safely. PTSD is real.
@@ShadowDrakken Yeah, I fully agree.
@@bigshow771 compulsory liability insurance would also help. If the cowboiz get too expensive, back to the militias they go.
when the older protestor was shoved and bleeding from the head, one cop begins to try and check on him but is quickly dissuaded from doing so by a fellow officer and gets back in formation. the system does not care and is working as intended
39:52 Bear in mind, the Police Union is NOT a union. It's classified as a Fraternal Order, legally, on its own website. They bust other unions; they aren't union-friendly.
Actual unions don't include managers.
F***ing F.O.P. ruining people's lives since it's inception.
Masons , and if you have a problem with that then there is a mason elder in your family to check you dumb dumb
Good to know! People always bring up the police union when they're arguing that unions are bad.
well, THAT explains a lot: fraternity culture is about as toxic as andrew taint's be-a-big-man SDE Bee-Ess :/
"Just following orders"... If only there was some international Criminal case law around that phrase
If only the US gave a crap about and accepted accountability for human rights violations, crimes against humanity and war crimes, oh right, we claim we above those silly things, cuz profit...
Ask Nuremberg.
"Hey cop! Get a new job!"
It's so easy! I mean genuinely, it's that easy. P.S. "40% of cops..." 🤔
hence all c0ps are N@zis
@@mookinbabysealfurmittens We need more garbage collectors than the crop of barely competent police.
The largest, legally armed, gang in America: the Police.
It's only recently that we've started finding out that this is, literally, true.
@@bigshow771 I mean, black people have known and been telling us that for literal decades. We literally just don't listen when black people say things that don't support the status quo.
@@Praisethesunson You are absolutely right.
It should be against the law to serve warrants at the wrong locations. It should be an immediate termination regardless of ranks.
Imagine requiring basic competence from those who have the power of life and death, imprisonment or freedom over us.
We can dream I guess?
#ACAB
@@corysanders6796 The thing about most jobs is that making mistakes doesn’t get people killed. And the ones where people can get killed, usually, the people who make those life-threatening mistakes get FIRED.
@@corysanders6796 I think not reading the details of the warrant which leads to invading an innocent person's life to the point of mental and physical trauma plus property damage should be punishable by immediate termination to all those involved, I believe laws should be in place in order to encourage police to..... I don't know...... READ THE WARRANT. I don't, however, believe that mistakes made at work that don't fall in the category as gross negligence or illegal should always result in immediate termination. I'm not sure but I would say your hyperbole marks you as a jaded cop. I have a lot of respect for anyone that puts kevlar on to provide for them and theirs, but y'all will never be firefighters 😂😂
@@corysanders6796 Gross negligence isn't just a mistake though. If your job has the potential to do very real and lasting (permanent) harm to someone if you do not follow explicit guidelines, and you do not follow or even read them, then you should be fired. You have proven you're unfit for a position of power and responsibility, and so you should have neither of those things and certainly not a gun.
@@corysanders6796 Maybe if you can't handle consequences for your actions you shouldn't be armed with a badge to kill???
Breanna Taylor's murderer not only wasn't held accountable, he got a promotion
this system is stupid
@@stoodmuffinpersonal3144Not if you make over 700k per year. Then the cops are your tool of violence.
F
F
Look, I'm not saying the guy should be lynched.
But I am saying he's probably familiar with the process of lynching someone.
22:30 I love this phrase and its mischaracterization. "one bad apple" gets thrown around like its not a big deal, but if you have a barrel of apples and one of them is bad, the whole barrel of apples rapidly rots. If you werent proactive about throwing out the one, you have to throw them all out.
"One bad apple spoils the barrel" is the saying, but I've literally been threatened with violence by fans of the police who insist that it has always been "one bad apple never spoiled the barrel."
@@M_M_ODonnell Ignorance is bad, willful ignorance is an affront. Even worse, it's not just "one bad apple". It's widespread enough that it can easily be called systemic.
@@bigshow771 When people feel entitled to demand that reality be rewritten to fit their version of things, they have no motivation to learn. So people who already accept it as absolute truth that police as a group are supremely righteous are comfortable just assuming that language has always matched how they want it to work for the convenience of that righteousness.
@@M_M_ODonnell Bonhoeffer's theory of stupidity on display here with your police fans.
@@M_M_ODonnellstunning.
I can answer your question about the military. Soldiers can and are held accountable for their actions, even if ordered to do so by a superior officer. A soldier has the right and duty to disobey an unethical or illegal order under the military code of conduct.
Don’t they take you to court for that?
@@Kingdeme A military tribunal, which is very different than a civilian court.
@@ShionWinkler How is it different?
@@Kingdeme Well in many way, some of which are your rights are curbed, like you can't plead the 5th. There is no jury of your peers. And the tribal's decision is final and can not be appealed to a higher court, as there isn't one.
@@ShionWinkler So ON PAPER they have a right to act as how their morals dictate, BUUUUT in practice seems like an uphill battle, on a 90 degree angle.
I wanna talk about "civil forfeiture" aka all a cop has to say is "I think this _____ was obtained illegally" whether it's cash or a car or whatever and they can just take your property. Chances are you will NEVER get it back.
Exactly. It's unbelievable. All thanks to the War on Drugs ™️.
Not only that but they completely shattered all understanding of law to sue the objects instead of the person they took the objects from to avoid constitutional questions.
Did you watch the Jon Oliver video on this?
Its not illegal to carry cash, but if you happen to have some with you when detained by the police, they can legally steal it. It is possible to fight back in the courts (if you can afford it), but the burden of proof is on you, and considering how expensive lawyers and all the associated fees are, most cases will cost you more money than you could ever hope to get back. What I find especially disturbing is how the media covers these legal thefts. You never see headlines like "Police take $30k from an innocent woman and tell her she has to sue to get it back". No, you instead see "Police confiscate $30k, their biggest haul this year!" The words they choose make it sound legitimate, even though the articles never mention any crime having been committed. They just leave you to assume that if they confiscated the money, there must've been good reason.
@@CobaltContrast
Everyone did
Here's the best reason why it's not hard to be pro-union and anti-police union; cops aren't workers, they're enforcers of state violence, more akin to organized crime than an organization of working people.
BINGO.
100 percent this. Other unions fight against capitalism, while police unions protect capitalism.
Class traitors
The interesting nuance to this point is that it implies the definition of crime is not necessarily determined by the state, but rather the community. Therefore suggesting that a cop can commit social crime while not committing state crime.
@@B_Van_Gloriousalways
Qualified immunity and so many other “not responsible for damage or death “ laws need to be fixed. It’s on me if a cop drives his city issued cruiser thru my house? How is that officer not responsible for his actions???
because no institution in our society likes regulating power.
Why shouldn't it be on the criminal they were probably chasing? I like how the context is being left out of that one.
Did you even *consider* not putting your house there?
@@yemo34 If they can't chase a criminal without crashing into random houses, they should let the criminal go.
@@dresdenvisage If they can't chase a criminal without crashing into random houses, then they shouldn't be cops.
Adam becoming a force opposed to settler-colonial capitalist patriarchy is the best thing ever
It happens to basically everyone who looks into how the systems you live in actually function.
I really don't understand why we hold the cops and politicians to a LOWER standard of behavior than we do to children or criminals.
The criminals write the laws is all there is to understand about that.
Cus the laws are for us, not for them
I had a "dirty cop" indict me on explicitly false charges and, despite the evidence demonstrating such being strong and obvious, it was some other lies that got him fired... He paid no real cost for his crime against me ... Because of course he didn't.
Well duh. Why would police be punished for screwing over a filthy poor like you? I mean you aren't even rich.
Al Capone was untouchable until Tax Evasion. Priorities, I guess.
I was dismissed from a jury because I stated that statistically and historically that law enforcement officers were more prone to giving false testimony than most plaintiffs. They dismissed me and one other guy who both cited the statistics supporting that. That is bias from the courts.
Do like the police do lie your ass off.
somewhere there's an alternate universe where Adam Conover never got fired and those poor bastards don't get to enjoy feral Adam Conover and i feel bad for them
Somewhere there's a world where people like Adam are not needed and, I would imagine, they look at us with horror and pity.
The way I see it, the main difference between police unions and other unions is what they defend them for. Teachers, nurses, doctors, firefighters, all have unions and they also have a responsibility for other people's lives. If someone in one of those unions decided the best way to deal with someone unruly was to kill them they can be sued. While their union might still give whatever representation is contractually obligated, the union wouldn't actively show their support for it. People like to pretend the police have a similar sense of responsibility. Which is ridiculous since the supreme court has not only decided that they don't have any responsibility to help people, they also decided to make it so they can't be held accountable when they literally murder people. This shows that the government only sees the police as a force for violence. The police union exists only to promote their existence as a force of violence. That's why police unions aren't like other unions and shouldn't exist. They don't exist to make things better for cops. They exist to make sure the violence is allowed to continue. ACAB
Well said, another point that Renegade Cut made. Unions normally are to protect workers from the perils of capitalism, while police unions effectively work to protect capitalism, because that is what police do. So even though it may technically be a "union", it
in fact, does the complete opposite.
@@agoo7581 The police unionize to get a bigger cut from the capitalists they protect from the other workers.
Suing a doctor is harder then suing a cop. Medical misconduct kills more people every year then cops do.
can't help but think of that time the cop threatened to murder me and leave my body where no one would ever find it and literally nothing ever happened about it.
starting to think the Blood and crypts are better than cops. Christ almighty.
Sounds worse than what happened to Long Island Audit. Not sure if you're familiar, but a corrupt cop told him on camera that if this was 20 years ago, he'd be found dead with his teeth missing & that he'd do it himself. Sean, like you I'm assuming, wasn't breaking the law. I think the cop eventually got a few day suspension. These cops are just psychos with badges.
A cop murdered someone in my hometown, which I never even heard on the news, but it got my sister off a serious ticket.
Just last month, (I live in suburbs), a cop pulled me over after work less than 5 min away from work, at midnight “for a broken break light” - “the middle one”, on my suv he told me. I went the NEXT MORNING. there was no broken break light .
Not 1st time I was lied to for reason being pulled over, either, but would be too long here.
LoL, totally happened.
@@yemo34 It's completely plausible, but go ahead and be an ass for no good reason.
Regarding "One bad apple", rotting apples release acetone which causes all the other apples near it to also rot.
Love these videos but they also make my blood pressure spike
Right? I'm at the point where, when I see Adam has posted a new vid, I just know I'm about to be pissed off and/or disgusted.
I feel like cops aren't protecting people. They're protecting property and businesses
Sometimes, not even then.
That was actually thier original, intended purpose.
In this case. Your feeling is literally a fact.
"To serve and protect...."
Now you know.
It's called Capitalism. It sanctifies private property (capital) and makes it more important than people.
Socialism says people are more important. That's why capitalists hate socialism/communism and will tell you that it is evil, so you wont think about it, and wont try to get rid of the capitalism that benefits only them.
I am a citizen of Clear Creek County, Colorado. We had a killing of a citizen, Christian Glass, by the sheriff's department recently. The county actually did take away funding from the sheriff's department as a result.
It has had a good, chilling effect on the sheriffs. Unfortunately, as the local dog shelter is a part of the sheriff's department, the sheriff completely defunded the dog shelter to gain back most of his funds.
This lead to many citizens being mad at the county government for defunding a beloved service, instead of the sheriff, who actually did the defunding.
Making cops pay for their malfeasance is a good thing. At the same time, they will fight back with everything they have.
Start to shoot back and hit what you aim at 😂
All the more reason to bring them to accountability, I've always had a distrust of authority but fuck they aren't even trying hide how shitty they are at this point...
Had a professor recommend Joanna’s work for an advocacy project about policing. If anyone has access to scholarly work I highly recommend her law reviews as well as Shielded!
I feel like this sort of work should be career ruining. As these lies endanger the lives of police officers.
@@yemo34 what do the underside of those boots taste like?
@@spasticnapjerk always remember to comply with all the officers commands. Oppositional defiance disorder can be treated. Until then, follow the law, and you have nothing to worry about.
@@yemo34 You didn't watch the video. You don't have to be doing anything "wrong" to come to great harm by police - with impunity. Literally the top comment and the beginning of the conversation are in regard to warrants carried out at the wrong address - notably, to innocent people, who statistically are extremely likely to face severe violence & even death (no warning is required to use deadly force in many states), property damage, and false arrest under the identity of the intended person on the warrant, and more.
P.S. the bootlicking will get you no sympathy from the police. They do not care about you, and it's been clearly stated that "protecting you [the working class] is not the police's job, especially if they feel 'unsafe' or prejudiced". Can't remember which Supreme Court decided that, whether a state (or which) or the federal one.
Just WATCH the VIDEO. Yeesh.
@@mookinbabysealfurmittens I'm sorry, but I must report your comment for bullying and harassment. Bootlicker is a slur, which does violate RUclips TOS. I also don't understand why liberals must use such degenerate sexual innuendo to make points. Especially points that not only endanger the lives of law enforcement, but border on seditious conspiracies.
I live in a state that ended qualified immunity. The response is they do not even do their jobs now. They get paid and do not ever show up. Had a break-in? They’ll give you a report number for insurance. Have a murderer held at gun point? They won’t show up. Attempted car jacking? Nope, they don’t come at all. A 72 yr old just survived a car jacking and they left him waiting for four hours. This force was already under a consent decree.
Which state? Voters should be in up in arms that their do nothing police force is basically collecting a pay check for not doing their job.
Some people won't change with the system, we fire them and rehire the next generation of people willing to do the job. Police work is not a trade, any dumbfuk can go be a cop.
@@utubepunkNew Mexico and yes we are. There are elected officials in the statehouse working on this issue now.
We pay the lawsuits and salaries and get little in return. We also need increased funding for social workers. We ended qualified immunity for everyone, btw.
Cool. I live in a state that deep throats police. Everything you described also happens.
They didn't run to Floriduh? Ronee's takin' 'em in with open arms.
For anyone saying “just making a mistake and you get fired is too much!” Yeah, except when your job is about protecting people’s lives. I’m a therapist. There are lots of things that if I don’t do them, will harm people and make me lose my license - I.e, not just be fired, but unable to do my career field ever again and open me up to being sued. I’m sorry, but I have no empathy around this point. I’m not carrying a gun and I’m held to waaay higher standards. Grow tf up.
As an engineer, if I were to sign off on a specification I know to be wrong, I just committed fraud and would be fired. Many fields have ethics standards and requirements, and a failing of character, a failing of trust in your decision making, is sufficient to end your career.
All power, no responsibilities.
Its so wrong.
That's what you get when you kill in service to the rich.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ― John F. Kennedy, 13 March 1962
I've been pulled over for "looking Mexican", too dark of tint on a car without tint, and many many times for my car "looking to nice for someone so young". I've been randomly searched on the street for "looking like I'm up to something". I've been charged with a crime with zero evidence (luckily it was thrown out by the judge). I've been harassed by one officer in multiple jurisdictions. There is no accountability. Yet when I was the victim of a financial crime nobody was charged though there was ample evidence (and a paper trail). When I was the victim of an assault by multiple people only one was charged and I've never received any restitution. I have a judgement against an employer who didn't pay me, but the Sheriff's office wouldn't execute it. The judge wouldn't enforce it either. There's no service for the taxes we pay to support them.
Liar
@thumper84 everything I referenced is on the public record, except being profiled and pulled over because I didn't have a camera or cell phone back in the 90's. And you can look up the child support laws, you cannot sue for an employer embezzling the money withheld for child support in Minnesota, only the state can pursue it if they choose to, which they don't because they can make you pay it again without any hearing at all. There is no legal way to contest it or appeal it once it is decided. The state had at that time 5 people to investigate that kind of crime and didn't have time to investigate the vast majority of those cases so they didn't and still don't. The same employer has done this to multiple people. But you're probably not smart enough to independently verify anything including how far your cranium is up your rectum.
Thank you adam for bringing this topic up ive been saying this for years but glad you are making your community more aware
I'm white and privledged but like.
Lived through these and so many mass shootings. Like. How can people vote or defend the status quo when it's so clearly broken?
Adam with these quality conversations with excellent guests deserve to get millions of subscribers.
Police "unions" aren't organized labor, they're mafia
I disagree. The mafia has a stronger sense of personal responsibility than the police do.
@@DanaTheInsane I mean, the mafia are "libertarians", read: ancaps, so yeah lol.
Police should call a nation wide strike until all the defund the police politicians have resigned
Judges who sign off on these no-knock raids to the wrong address should be held accountable as well.
Side note - @Adam I'd love for you to cover Civil Forfeiture.
@@shoveIWage theft is the largest form of theft in the U.S by a massive margin.
But that's fine because it is the rich stealing from suckers like you.
@@shoveI to be fair to Brandon Credit Cards, the law was passed to crack down on drug cartels, but just morphed into a cop klepto orgy.
@@kellywalker1664 Ed Zachery. Cops exploit this and steal hard earned cash form every day citizens with their qualified immunity for personal gain. It should be abolished.
The problem is that the warrants are for the correct address, but the cops just can't or won't fully read the warrants to get the right address. In the Henri Louis case they discussed at the beginning the cops had the correct address on the warrant but didn't actually fully read the warrant and just raided a random house on the same street.
When I lived in south Florida, my downstairs neighbors were in an abusive toxic relationship. Many nights were we awoken to screaming, stomping, shouting, objects being thrown, and doors slammed. (It felt like all the time) the "man" in the relationship, much like the lady, had major anger issues and mixed that with heavy drinking. The sheriff's officers were there a lot. I will never forget after one very violent night, one of the officers giving the lady advice. "Let him sleep it off somewhere else and talk to him tomorrow." They never arrested him or her, just kept telling them to try and work it out. I'm no relationship counselor, and I know that's some of the worst advice to give. I hope they found peace. Cops are not meant for that, and their "advice" should be kept to themselves.
in the case with the old man who hit his head, he wasnt protesting, he was trying to return a helmet that one of the officers dropped and they were so in cop mode that they just pushed him aside and that was enough force that he fell, then when one of the cops tried to help him the rest yelled "leave him" and just stepped over him. he wasnt protesting, he wasnt causing a problem he was just simply just trying to return a helmet thats what makes it so bad, he was just trying to be nice.
Just an FYI, the state as defined by max Weber doesn't have a monopoly on the use of violence, it has a monopoly on the legitimatized use of violence. In essence, he was talking about how the state has a monopoly on the court system that allows the state to valorize some forms of violence, while demonizing other forms of violence. This is what makes the state so powerful, as the ability to use the court system for one's own ends is always defined in the favor of the powerful. Interestingly enough in the case of Steven donziger, you can start to see how it's all a game of smoke and mirrors, as how even in the case of the court system being successfully used against the powerful, they have enough backdoors and workarounds to make both the functional and aspirational arguments for using the court system against the powerful counterproductive.
And even if that wasn't the case, even if these institutions could be used against the ruling class, there is enough functional history to show that the continued development of these institutions will lead to the suppression of the median person. Structural authority never connects to structural liberty, never will the two ever meet.
Police abolition is both the empirical and emotional argument at this point after uvalde.
Reminder that the state with all it's wealth and might. Can only prosecute you *after* you've done whatever crime you wish.
@@Praisethesunson or whatever entrapment railroads one into.
Thank you all for covering this! ❤❤❤
always hilarious to me the people who "back the blue" are also the ones who rant tirelessly against "oppressive government"
An interesting proposal I've heard as a way to help hold cops accountable is to require that police departments have insurance to cover these kinds of things so that officers who rack up too many claims become a liability. I don't know how something like that could even happen but it's definitely interesting to think about.
Cities and counties have liability insurance, but no insurance company will cover gross negligence. But as the system is right now, the cops can’t really get sued in the first place
As someone who grew up on Police Procedurals that taught us the guilty one is the suspect who calls the lawyer, I love this topic already.
🎵🎶COPAGANDA🎵🎶
Is gross. But it works. Worked on me, too, for a long time.
Hollywood (movies & television) have really done us dirty on this topic.
I call BS.
Utilizing an Attorney is NOT an admission of ANY guilt. The Attorneys job is to protect their client from undue abuse & overzealousness from the criminal justice system hell bent on obtaining guilt guilt guilt above all else.
@@noahpartic7586 +1! And it's the only way to make an interrogation stop. ...Or ideally, stop it before it starts - but bear in mind that everything you say & do from arrest til you're away from the police station is being recorded for future use against you, even if you've done no wrong. As ever. So the "interrogation proper" doesn't just start when they put you in the room and start talking with you. Not even close.
Also, note the stats on _false confessions._ They're obtained by lying to the suspect (totally allowed for them but not you), intimidation, and regularly literal tor/ur/ like sleep deprivation, wearing you down over 10+ hours, feeding you false "info" til your delirious mind lets you fall into a "word game" trap, withholding food/water. And on that note, mind anything you eat or drink with, as it can be used to obtain sketchy DNA "partial matches": taken off cups, gum, smokes, food utensils, etc.
Simply say,
"I want a lawyer."
If they insist or B.S. you (they can lie to you & love to pull the old "sure, BUT we just have a couple of questions first" and "if you're innocent, then you have nothing to hide")... *THEN REPEAT AGAIN* calmly, clearly, simply:
"I want a lawyer." Refuse to say anything else, like don't even start the phrase with a "no" or "yeah but"... That counts as "answering their question" or whatever they want. You have a right to a lawyer. And btw even lawyers put on trial don't represent themselves; they get a lawyer.
@@mookinbabysealfurmittens Makes sense.
blanket immunity for anybody is such a bad thing for society, it boggles my mind that it actually exists. talk about free reign as a person in a position of power, to do whatever you want. im sure that wont lead to corruption.
Completely agree, the moment you take away the feedback loop of accountability, you've basically mandated corruption. No one at any level, but most especially in public service, should be immune for investigation, oversight, or discipline.
The rich have had blanket immunity longer than your family has been alive.
The problem with suing the city rather than the officer is We the People then have to pay the bill. Officers who flagrantly abuse the powers We the People have entrusted them with need to be dealt with. Bad Actions = CONSEQUENCES no matter who you are.
A conservative thinks that the system is flawed but is pretty great and just needs tweaked.
A liberal thinks that the system is broken and needs to be fixed.
A leftist understands that the system is working as intended and needs to be destroyed.
Okay, genuine question here.
How do you destroy this system? And what replaces it?
From what I can tell from reading all these comments no one has offered a solution really. It's all just pointing out the problems with no solution.
And if you try to drive the left in half the conservatives always win.
Amen.
@@henryreed4697 You replace it with S O C I A L I S M.
*Capitalism* = Everyone for themselves and lets have Violence that looks like Peace. Violence in the form of hunger, homelessness, poverty, discrimination, police brutality, moving your job to someone else overseas etc.
*Socialism/Communism* = Let's try to work together and be fair and have Peace that looks like Violence. Violence in the form of military parades that show off weapons arsenals, etc.
@@henryreed4697 How's the saying go? You have to be able to admit that there is a problem before you can work on a solution. Something like that? Hence, pointing out the problems...
You know that great quote from Uncle Ben. “ with great power comes great immunity “
Have malpractice suits stopped people from becoming doctors? Have people stopped becoming nurses because they can be found responsible for gross negligence? So why shouldn't police be accountable?
Police unions are antithetical to the goals of the labor movment because the interests of the police are those of the state and the owning class, which are opposed to the goals of organized labor. Having a police union as part of the labor movement represents a conflict of interest. To that end, police unions rarely if ever act in solidarity with other unions and they frequently support causes and leaders that oppose organized labor.
I hope that clarifies things for you, Adam.
You have the best comment on the whole video.
Slavery was never abolished.
It was just rebranded, as prison labor, "public service sentencing", apprenticeships, internships, subminimum wage jobs, outsourcing, trainee positions, volunteering, student workers and probationary work.
Exactly right, and I'm a 70 year old white male who recognizes this fact. "Lettin' my WOKE" flag fly!" Of course, my awareness and intelligence is to the MAGAts what the MAGAts same attributes are to, say, a Jack Russell, so, there's that.
Did you know that here in czech republic we get 20 firearm related deaths per year? That's 2/yr/1M people. In the usa is police alone responsible for 3!
America is a sick country because we're rich, we don't give a damn, and nobody is willing or able to hold us to account. Also, all of that basically only applies to the richest 1%, the rest of us are being held hostage.
Fantastic discussion, it really goes to show how ingrained our current oppressive systems are. And in fact it's because of this inertia that we need to focus on fostering the alternatives to policing instead of trying to reform the existing system. Reforming the police is a sisyphean task--it's a horrible uphill battle, and when you make progress you have to keep spending energy making sure politicians don't reverse it back. Instead we need to create community initiatives to address public safety, and we need to convince local governments to fund and otherwise support those initiatives.
As a personal anecdote, I grew up in a violent neighborhood--it was not uncommon to hear gunshots at night, and to this day I will never forget the various street-side memorials made over the years for kids who died because of a simple neighborhood disagreement. And it was this neighborhood that was completely transformed by a grassroots effort to clean it up (both literally and figuratively). My parents started talking to our neighbors about these huge problems, and over the course of mere months they formed a volunteer community association that brought everyone together. They had events to clean up trash off the sidewalks, they had social gatherings like cookouts, they prevented crime by simply having a friendly face on the street to talk to and to de-escalate confrontations. It WORKED.
After operating for a bit they even reached out to the local police force to support the initiative, where they agreed--as a community--on times where they DID want an armed officer patrolling and warding off the more violent offenders. And soon after that, we even had the mayor visit and publicly support the community initiative! It was transformative to have an actual positive relationship with the police and with government.
But I can't stress this enough, the vast majority of the change happened from neighbors simply coming together and helping each other out. It took time, but within the space of a couple years the violent crime disappeared, litter was eliminated, and children were free to play outside without worry. We need more of that!!
Unfun fact: the cop who murdered Daniel Shaver, while he was on his knees begging for his life, is getting $2500/month disability for the PTSD he developed after murdering Daniel Shaver
Thanks for this really disgusting fact. ):
You know what the POS had engraved on his AR-15? "YOU ARE F*CKED". I saw the documentary on that freaking travesty. That was an execution. Mesa PD had fired him, them hired him back so he could get his "reward".
Thanks, I hate it.
Late comment, but it should also be noted that he had "get fucked" engraved on the weapon he killed Daniel with.
@@mollylong3571Good point. I remember seeing pictures of the engraving, gave me an impression that he wanted to use it, like he was excited about the possibility of shooting someone.
It pains me to say that, but one of the laws I agree in my country is that is illegal to Armed forces to unioniza. First of all, when armed professionals go on strike, they're not just striking, that's a mutiny. And after 5 or 6 coups, Brazil is kinda tired. Not enough to demilitarize the cops, but still...
The more I hear about the supreme court, the more I think that it's a terrible system and we should just abolish it and replace it with some other way to make rulings on law. They're supposed to just interpret the law, but they twist the original wording and apply precedent inconsistently so much that they're basically legislating from the bench. The point of having them serve for life is supposed to make them unbiased, but they clearly have an agenda anyway, and the rules that are supposed to make them not be influenced by politics just make them unaccountable.
Consistently excellent conversations on this channel, love it. Super glad to have found it! 👌
Utah made a law that you can't sue any government entity in Utah, unless the state gives you permission to sue the state itself, which they don't approve.
That's insane! I hope that is being taken to a higher court. It reminds me of the city councils that always vote unilaterally to approve a rise to themselves. That's my dream job. Where I have a vote on very specific & appealing details of my job. Must be sooo nice
Delivery drivers are statically in more danger than police.
As are roofers, fishers and hunters, loggers, groundskeepers, reuse collectors and construction helpers.
In the U.S., we live in a culture of Domination. Police are the enforcers. SCOTUS is basically saying, the risk is too great to allow the police to be bound by laws. What is the risk? Lose of power and control. Their biggest fear is that people will actually control their government.
"We have investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong."
The thing that I hate about this discussion, and Adam does it here too, is that everyone who wants to get on board, recognizes there is a problem and wants it to change, claims they're willing to do their part to get it changed and brings up other examples where big changes happened to look to for examples (like slavery in this podcast), but then, despite acknowledging that slavery had to HAVE A CIVIL WAR to make those big changes happen, immediately dismisses the idea of committing to violence...
You can't take violence off the negotiating table (especially against an organization that believes it has a monopoly on the right to commit violent acts) and expect them to listen to you. I'm not saying declare a civil war tomorrow and start executing police in the street, but if that's not on the table as a level of the negotiation that you're willing to commit to (backed up by the power to do so, which is gained through the number of people in the movement AND THE WILLINGNESS TO GET ON BOARD), the police will never have any incentive to listen to the changes you're going to ask for even if those changes would massively benefit them.
Anytime the police see you saying you want change but aren't willing to commit to violence, all they see is a disorganized group that can never pose a threat to them or enact any sort of change. You have to at least be able to say "if it comes to that, if it's the very last option we're given and there's no avenue left to talk it out, I will be willing to take up arms with the rest of you" otherwise you're actively harming every possibility we can ever have to sort this mess out.
This is a good point. I feel the same way about Target removing pride merch because those opposed threatened those who support. In the United States, those who will act on and threaten violence have a negotiation tool that people with a strong ethical and moral code will not.
@@angelehrlich1291 I don't agree that there is any correlation between an unwillingness to commit violence and possession of a strong ethical and/or moral code
As always, I really appreciate your factual look at the promise within our society, and what we can do to combat them. Just to let you know about the military, we do not have the same allowances for behavior. We are expressly told that we cannot use a just following orders excuse to get out of illegal or negligent behavior. In fact there are many veterans who are upset with the lack of accountability within the police departments because they are the only organization that doesn’t hold itself accountable or allow anyone else to either.
What bothers me is that these lawmen don't seem to understand that when the law is so far removed from justice, the social contract breaks down.
This makes people desperate and they will reach towards violence. Disproportionate violence. It baffles me that the US doesn't understand this simple principle.
You know what happens to policemen in my country that do that? Their lives are ruined.
The old man in Buffalo was trying to give a pig his helmet back. One had been dropped, he picked it up and tried to give it back. The pig shoved him, then they stepped over and around him as he bled on the ground.
Been really digging your podcast. Thank you Adam and the team! It’s like an interview version and angrier last week tonight.
Adam asked why SCOTUS would have an interest making it hard to sue police or cities? It's because if cities and individual officers are found to be financially or criminally responsible for civil rights violations the next step would be to extend that to judges and prosecutors. SCOTUS members are lawyers 1st and will protect their own.
Looking good! Keep up the great work! Its working!
Nothing happens to cops when they violate our rights because the system considers violating our rights to be the cops' job. Let's just be clear. Cops exist to oppress citizens in the service of our rulers. This is why rich people do whatever they want and nobody ever does anything about it. Like statistically speaking. This is why cops could just march into the woods in Atlanta, perform an extrajudicial execution on an unarmed man, and nothing will happen to them.
Look into the private prison system and how many prisoners are enslaved by companies like McDonald's, Microsoft, IBM, Walmart, and more.
During the protests in Portland a U.N. investigation found that if an army used the same amount of tear gas during a war it would have been considered a war crime.
Bro you spitting strait fire 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Yup. My relative is a cop. They said that it's the police unions that shield cops from accountability.
They are really saying that "no one will want to be police officers" if they can be sued? The people afraid of being sued before they ever sign up are scared because THEY KNOW THEY WILL DO ILLEGAL SHIT on the job. yo would actually be excluding the bad actors.
Only the unjust would ever worry about "too much justice."
When doctors were misplacing tools, operating on the wrong people, and otherwise doing horrible malpractice, they started instituting stuff like procedural checklists and making sure anyone could speak up if they had concerns (rather than the surgeons bullying the assistants into silence). Of course, they only did that because when they failed, they got sued up the wazoo.
It's like some sort of dark magic, according to rumors, if you hold people accountable for their actions, they do do less of the corruption thingymabob....
Must be some sort of communist propaganda 🙄
Smart people like doctors and surgeons make checklists and try to learn more and do better, unfortunately they are talking about the police here :D
@@daviddivad5202 My point was that it isn't intelligence, but being held responsible for mistakes.
The thing is the settlements came out of the hospital and practitioners' pockets. Settlements for police incidents come out of the taxpayers' pockets. Feel free to connect the rest of the dots.
@@kellywalker1664 and I say, give the thin blue line something to be proud off, being held accountable (criminally and civilly) at a higher standard than a citizen, you know like in a normal country, with real laws and not BS crap to divvy up the country's coffers and murder a couple of people while they at it.
Great guest. This person has a gift for understanding conveying nuance . And putting a light on how important it is in really understanding something.
I point to when she was talking about the current justices and how while they don't want underrepresented communities to suffer because of the way they interpret the law it never less is the reality. Not to say it shouldn't change, we just need to better understand how to effect that change.
The short answer: racism
The long answer: racism with extra steps
People who say "just one bad apple" to defend the rest always forget the second half: "spoils the bunch". And then the 'bad apple' is almost never removed.
Every cop needs to be individually insured so that when the company drops them they need to get a new career.
And given frequent psychological evaluations.
Good catch that the police work for companies.
@@Praisethesunson they have to work for someone it sure as hell isn’t the people
Just a solid thanks to you for doing the work you do. I’ll hit up the podcast that just found out you had, because I’m moving away from RUclips as much as I can
Funny how the cops never "accidentally" bust into one of those good ol' boy with a huge gun collections' house and get into a firefight, it's always some poor shlub in his boxers watching netflix with a bag of doritos and some kids crying in the next room.
Why would they break into their friends’ houses?
Really interesting and articulate episode. Very thoughtful and insightful questions Adam. One of my favorite episodes
If there are too many bad apples, the tree is rotten.
I think it would be very interesting for you to do a follow-up interview with That Dang Dad, who is a former police officer and a current police reformist/abolishonist
It's pretty indicative of the corruption in your policing system when my first thought at any new Adam Conover video is "I hope he and his guest aren't harassed/do survive after this."
The LAPD is one of the largest gangs in the United States.
@@Praisethesunson Right on, sun bro.
You've got to share videos like this across social media to get the word out about police reform and the need for dash cams and body cams.
I was a state legislator up until last year, and we nearly got Qualified Immunity revoked last session, only falling behind by a few votes on the floor of the State House.
At least in part is because they are gangs that have been elevated to deities by many. Also because if they are held accountable they lose their jobs, the cities have to pay out millions in settlements or court awards, and mostly because even good cops protect bad cops because they are gang mentalities.
Adam definitely needs a larger audience! This is excellent content!
The system REWARDS the mis-treatment of the vulnerable. These officers, judges, etc., need to show they are "effective" at their jobs in order to maintain their power. The vulnerable, the weak, the societally disadvantaged, are all THE EASIEST TARGETS to do that. Once somebody realized this, it was almost a foregone conclusion that, legislatively and practically, this mode of operation would be reinforced and supported by those in power.
Then it is never addressed as a matter of justice by subsequent generations of officers, judges, etc., because WHY? It works well for THEM.
And every so often they have to sacrifice one of their number to the masses. In the final calculation, thats absolutely worth it. And you're talking about a mindset that easily de-humanizes entire segments of society. They won't feel a single twinge over throwing one of their number to the wolves. All they have to do is make a little show of regret and give lip service to the rule of law and then walk away to continue the system.
Law & Order in the Jim Crow South would be a really f'd up show.
"Guilty, 5 years or until death in the mines, whichever comes first."
"What am I guilty of?"
"Doesn't matter, we'll come up with something. Oh, and while you're in the mines we'll probably charge you with something else so we can keep you as free labor. Free for us, I mean."
Should police have unions? Yes. But their municipal contracts should require that the union carries general liability and malpractice insurance to cover the damage the massive liabilities that police misbehavior causes. Brutal policing equals higher general liability insurance charges coming directly out of cops pay. Maybe they'd begin to police their own better if it cost them not to. Those contracts should also require them to be local residents. That alone would cut down on abuse.
Add to this discussion our for-profit prison system and the fact that convicts have a nearly impossible feat of getting hired for a job; and the "system" is even worse.
When the bad apples are killers... saying there is just one bad apple 🍎 on the police force, is like saying there's just one serial killer in the orchard.
I'd sooner burn the orchard to the ground than go apple picking! So maybe we need to re-think how policeing is done in America.
With regards to why this is still happening more than 100 years after Reconstruction:
It is worth noting that, because Supreme Court Justice is a lifetime appointment, we are only six Justices removed from Reconstruction (Stephen Field Johnson, served 1861-December 1897; Joseph McKenna, served January 1898-1925; James Clark McReynolds, 1914-1941; Hugo Black, 1937-1971; Byron White, 1962-1993; and Clarence Thomas, 1991 and still serving). With all but the first two Justices, those tenures all overlap by as many as nine years. Really drives home why the Court is so conservative with regard to the changing times.
The union bargaining for less transparency allows them to just steal what they are not making in overtime while they sit their playing candy crush in their car...or stealing drugs, or protecting drug dealers...etc
Exclude everyone who has never had a negative interaction with the police from the jury pool!
If the people charged with enforcing the rules aren't held accountable to those rules, then the rules are unethical. Unethical rules need to be ignored or changed.
The worst incident of this police being immune from their actions is when, once again, they were at the wrong house. The police fired a flash-bang grenade into the house which landed in a baby's crib (maybe a toddler?) which caused the child lifelong disfigurements and future disabilities. They also did extensive damage to the house. The family got nothing. I'm not sure there was even an apology from any of the officers.
This is a case where George Carlin's "It's a big club, and you ain't in it!" goes for another group than rich people.
I mean, cops get to do this because they are the club the rich use to beat you over the head.
Thumbs up 👍🏿😎 guys i really want Adam to get all of his videos out there 🙌🏿
Just following orders isn't a legal defense, even in war, it's up to the individuals to decide what an unlawful order is, and disobey them or face prosecution along with the order source. It's a hefty weight, but one that is needed to force people to curb maddened, incompetent, or even occasionally bloodthirsty warriors.
And we Always took reports of violations seriously, and investigated thoroughly. We paid out so much and imprisoned our own a ton... but it was worth it, as it provided Real trust and a stable foundation from which to work among a hostile population, too bad the police are too stupid to get that.
I appreciated the self awareness in forcing soldiers to contemplate the long term and legal ramifications of their actions and the orders that fuel said actions. I only ever got one unlawful order, and I told him to eat a dick, politely, and command reaffirmed my refusal, he was pissed but removed from the equation. I also watched a buddy refuse an order and get clinked for it, so it's a rough time either way...
Honestly, I can't believe I'm saying this, but the military would treat the population better than police as we were held to a Higher Standard. Unlike the cowardly police who are quite literally an enemy of the people and too afraid to take responsibility for their actions.
Lol, big F's for the piggies all day long...
I personally know folk who were straight up shot by police, and nothing was done.
Well duh. You are a poor. So the people who died were probably poor's too.
Poor's have no right.
You are just kept in a cage big enough that you don't notice it much.
You need to move.