The OLDEST Myths of the Milky Way
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- This video may cause a little controversy with those who think some paleolithic cave paintings represent the night's sky. This is a look at the mythological evidence to determine how people across the world perceived the stars and the Milky Way. I must thank Yuri Berezkin for his work that allowed this video to be made.
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Mythology Database: www.mythologyd...
🧡 Please respect other's cultures and beliefs. Racism, discrimination or threatening speech will not be tolerated.
📚 References
These are links to an interview with Chantal Jègues-Wolkiewiez
editions-arqa....
editions-arqa....
These are references to Gibbonm Hayden and Villeneuve's work
Gibbon Gibbon (William B.), "Asiatic Parallels in North American Star Lore : Milky Way, Pleiades, Orion", The Journal of American Folklore, 85(337), 1972, pp. 236-247.
Hayden (Brian) et Villeneuve (Suzanne), "Astronomy in the Upper Palaeolithic ?",Cambridge Archaeological Journal, 21, 2011, pp. 331-355.
Berezkin's work can be found in the Mythology Database (mythologydatabase.com)
What other things would you like to know the earliest myths of?
Is there any evidence that stories of elves, dwarves and the like, refer to Homo species other than Homo Sapiens?
I am honestly interested in how different myths overlap. Of the constellation myths we have what constellations that appear in one myth also appear in another myth. Especially if the constellation is identified as something else in the second myth.
Mountains, rivers and trees- always important, fascinating and worshipped. Would like to know more, connections, history etc Keep up the good work! 🦝
Skull cults would be great!!
Bon and early Dakini myths of Tibet.
In Irish it's called Bealach na Bo Finne, the Way of the White Cow, and was held to be a heavenly reflection of the River Boyne. The Egyptians also seem to linked the Milky Way to cattle via the fertility and cow goddess Bat though they also called it the Nile in the Sky.
I once read that the Gizeh pyramids are positioned just like the main stars in Orion’s belt.
The idea of the bull herd as the milkyway makes me think of wildebeest or bisons, so much you can't count them.
Imagine telling an ancient Neolithic human that every dot was a different star like our sun.
The Milky Way as a spine sound really interesting in association with the creation myth. I like to hear more about it.
It reminds me of the Egyptian goddess Nut.
I don't know much about Africa but In the Eastern Eurasia people worshipped Tian (天) deity ( Alataic Tengri ) , and in the Western ( Indo-European ) Eurasia " Deva " ( Theos and Deus in Greek and Latin ) both referring to heavenly God .
That's interesting, thank you for sharing.
The words theos and deus aren't etymologically relatet though. Them sounding similar ist just a coincidence.
@@Automatik234 Really ? Could you elaborate a little more on that please ?
@@majidbineshgar7156Deva and deus both come from Proto-Indo-European deywos which refers to a sky/heavenly/bright/shining god. Theos comes from Proto-Indo-European dhehs meaning a godhead or sacred place.
@@shanegooding4839 yes thank you , I was aware of the common etymological description of that word as well but it has not convinced me, now considering the fact that the God Uranus Οὐρανός meaning also heaven was believed to be the grandfather of Zeus and Theos striking similarity to Deus and dev* in all indoeuropean languages it will be more logical to deduce that Theos must have also derived its meaning from Devas/ Deus / Dev* in ancient indo-european languages .
Out of this World!
Thanks Crecganford.
In Georgian Milky way is called a Deer's jump.
according to the legend, after God created men, he asked for an animal to be humans aid, deer and bull came forth so god set them a challenge, run across the sky, who finishes first shall become humans helper.
Deer rushed across, running as fast and jumping as high as he could but he died from exhaustion before getting to finish line, the bull walked slow and steady but got to the finish line. Milky way is the path the deer took and footprints it left behind. there are other stars that are considered as the bulls path, but I don't know much about stars.
That's very interesting; I shall see if I can find a version of that myth.
Interesting. That also sounds like perhaps where the Aesop's fable of the hare and the tortoise came from.
@@Crecganfordwhich makes me think... Jon... maybe you could make a video of Aesop's fables? And origins of some of those... 🤔
@@feliciagaffney1998 may be, both are cosmic animals in a way.
Maybe the bull's path was the zodiac?
I just really want to say how much I appreciate your evidence based approach to myths and legend. I have my faith, but it is only through the humility that science holds that we can successfully communicate about these ideas.
Thank you, I appreciate that and your kind words.
I second that sentiment. Great work and even better commentary and communication.
I read about the research into the idea that the markings were a sort of calendar of the life cycles of the animals depicted. I thought it was interesting how they tested that idea comparing lunar cycles of modern-day animals like horses. Just very creative thinking.
Yes, that was a fascinating discovery.
I really love your videos about myths that includes the stars, such as the The Cosmic hunt and the Seven sisters. It would be really interesting to learn more about the myths tied to the Milky way and the Pleiades.
I have been able to use these to teach children about the stars and also about the deep past in our planetarium by retelling these stories and show them that the old myths are not just fairy tales but that they do contain knowledge that was important to the people back then and some that is important to this day, such as in the myths of Orion and Pleiades, The Seven sisters, the Cosmic hunt etc.
This stuff is gold for fantasy writers
I keep hearing, “the hall of balls.”
Time for bed. I’m done 😅
That is how RUclips wanted to auto-translate what I said too!
Thank god it wasn't just me 😅🤣
Me too! 😂😂
The river/dead identification makes me think of the ferryman Charon.
Given that it's considered plausible that the Neanderthals had language capability, I wonder if there are any myths or stories that we originally got from Neanderthal authors?
Just a bit of my experience in astronomy from back in the day. I would expect some variance from myths originating in the opposite hemispheres. The northern milky way is structurally different in each hemisphere so lesser observational targets of interest are found in the north. Now as much us made of the zodiac band, there are objects off that band that are significant and were even named by Persian magi, if you will. Hence I can see reasons for differences in the complexities of myth in various regions.
Great video, more videos on creation myths and the milky way spine. Please. Thx for the profound work
Great info! Please expand on the myths of Eurasia!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge, always fascinating
I always wondered if the Jormungandr is the Milky Way. It’s a serpent that wraps around the world. I imagine if that’s what you could see in the sky no matter where you went and it seemed to span the whole of the world that you knew, and if you met other people, they saw it too - you could think it’s a giant serpent wrapped around the world.
I love this scientific approach to ancient myths. So fascinating.
I am amazed. I really enjoyed your representation
Thank you.
at 6:25 you talk about migrations from siberia "into africa", i believe you meant america, dont you?
but who doesn´t make little mistakes from time to time? lol
great video as always, love your content
Yes, America. Thank you for spotting that.
Thank you for another wonderful video, and the telling of an old story I've never heard before.
Thank you for watching, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
When writing a fictional character's Azteca background I had assumed, after a little reading, that the Milky Way to them symbolized a crocodile speculated to be the Timekeeper.
There are many myths (300) with the Milky Way being represented in different ways. All I show here are the oldest and most common representations.
@@Crecganford From what I read the role of the Aztec view of the Milky Way and possible timeless crocodile concept hadn't been settled, but it made sense enough that I went with it. Meshes with how crocodilians and crocodiliamorphs go back that far in geological time.
Thanks for another great video!!!
Thanks!
@@Crecganford You're welcome!!
I really enjoyed the video, thank you. Yes, we may well be more technicall advanced about the milky way, and what it is, but my God, we've certainly lost a lot of magic and wonder about it along the way.
He what ? He beat off a dwarf? I say i never realised this was one of THOSE kinds of story tellings!
Old stories are kinda wierd at times.
1:14wow really makes me wish I could’ve been a French 18 year old in 1914
Though 1914 in France was not a great year... :)
Galaxy 🌌 and chill 🎬 sounds like an amazing idea!! 🎉 🔭 🎨 🏞
Are we sure that it’s not just a painting set at night?
Thank you for this segment, Jon. A refreshing break from all the hideous impulses clogging RUclips in America at the moment. But I don’t expect a calm and rational analysis of what theocracy really means any time soon despite all the primary source material that would be available.
Excellent video, thank you!
And thank you for watching, it all helps support the channel.
instead of a cup of tea, i'm eating cuzcuz. This is the brazilian way
I guess if I were to associate those points in the cave painting as the Pleiades, well, it's very convenient, since at the very least, I can see how they kind of match the location of the Pleiades with respect to the main stars of the constellation Taurus, whose horns are also pointed in the same direction.
Here's a Cuppa from a long time viewer!
Thank you so much for your support, it really is appreciated.
I recently visited El Castillo cave. Are there myths linked to the paintings at El Castillo?
I need to be more familiar with the paintings, and so I will look and if there is something interesting there I will make a video.
Do you have a tutorial of how to use your website? Ive been having some trouble understanding it as a layman 😅 but would really like to use it
Very soon, I'll link a "how to" video on it next week.
I am very interested in the creation myth and if there is any connection to the myths of the Milky Way
Which creation myth, from which culture?
@@Crecganford I was wondering about the Indo european creation myth.
11:00 ish Interesting story.... The use of wigwam as a description of the domicile is definitely southern North America. Caddo, or Apache? Native North Americans had very little writings, so this story was traditionally passed on orally until someone wrote it down... Had the domicile been yurt, I would more assume asian for the oral story... Anyway, I wonder how old this story really is, and what tribe told it to the person who wrote it down.
I am very curious about how our expanding knowledge of human habitation of the americas being over 20,000 years at least, correlates with any stories we are aware of. Which ‘wave’ might this be? Do any known north or South American stories account for and or match up with human arrival by boat, instead of dispersal over the land bridge? As we learn more about ancient human life here, how are mythologists reflecting on that in data, and hypotheses?
I'm not aware of myths in South America that allude to arriving by boat, however, we do see motifs in South America that are probably there because they arrived via Indonesia or Australisia, and so almost certainly by boat.
Wow, that was a rolicking adventure you read to us! But what ever happened to his sister? 🤞
I wondered that as well... I have a copy of the orginal book now and I will see if I can find a tale that let's us know!
Great video, thanks.
Clearly Michelangelo of Lascaux didn't consult Dogon people
In Irish, the Milky Way was called " Bealach An Bó Finne "
.....the Way of the White Cow....
We have Inis Bó Finne.....The Island of the White Cow, which may be because , being just offshore, the view of the galaxy on a frosty night from there, was horizon to horizon
Been to Lascaux Deux......the replica nearby of the original, closed to visitors
this channel is great
Awesome thanks! Do you have anything about Sirius mythology? I bee heard a lot of b*****t about it, but I will like to know if there isa real mythology about that star.
Any evidence relating the Milky Way to the myth of the Wild Hunt?
This is an interesting question, and there is not one that I am aware of. The wild hunt was more about wind and storms as opposed to the night sky, which would have been obscured when the hunt was happening.
Very 👍 good
❤❤❤
I would point out the story of the rainbow serpent is over 40000 years old The rainbow serpent is the Milky Way.
Did you watch this? I talk about the rainbow serpent leaving the trail?
@@Crecganford sorry, I got interrupted whilst watching it and must have missed the section. Again sorry about that and I will re watch.
@Crecganford ...A kid, thou hast fallen into milk." love it, 'For the mystics of the future. '-jll
If a person of past can put his hand in the air and indetify things we cannot today, heresy. Or perhaps, people weren't so, but wars made it so..
This video reminds me not only of Witzel or Le Quellec but of Hamlet's Mill...
Hamlet's Mill is an intriguing book indeed.
Isn't it possible that's not homo sapiens but neanderthal?
A good question, but they had already become extinct.
@@Crecganford Huh, thought they stuck around longer than that. Thanks for the answer.
🧠💪🏻
Thank you
Is orphicius tthe ice breaker 4 reincarlsnation
❄️🦍🍀
Where does The middle east fit in that tree? Looks like a guess work
I explain the methodology, it's not guess work.
@@Crecganford The oldest myths we know originate from the Middle East, recorded during the Bronze Age. Most myths on that list or tree were documented no later than 2,000 years ago. It's curious that this model didn't include the oldest and most detailed mythologies known to humanity from the Middle East. This suggests there may be something wrong with the model.
Cro Magnon Man not African DNA is the ancestry of Europe and Asia
Cromagnon is a homo sapien... who ancestors can be traced back to Africa.
The oldest African DNA is 18,000 years old
Out of Africa theory is propaganda with respect to real DNA evidence 😅
First of all I want to start by saying..Stop saying people are from Africa...I'm an Aboriginal man of Australia I'm fullblood descend my ancestors walked of the desert in the heart of Australia...now I've done my DNA and my brother I'm not connected to any race on earth I'm not African nor Asian or even European..my closest bloodline connects to the Mungo man for we are from the say tribal group..BARKINJI..now just to stop your accusations about Africans came to Australia 70,000 years ago..that's fake...the Panaramittee Crocodile engravings destroys your theory...it's over 80,000 years old and it been found in South Australia near lake Eyre...we have dates that's been proven through science DNA and archeological findings..the oldest human occupation site found in Australia is way over 150,000 years old...the knowledge or whatever U learnt at school are lies especially when it comes to Australia aboriginal people...Now the Milky way is not a myth..To the indigenous people of Australia it is our sign for EMU nesting...The EMU in the Milky way will be standing with his head high...but when it's time to nest the EMU will drop....to understand aboriginal astronomy first you got to learn by the indigenous people not by a school teacher...
Thank you for your feedback, although I do feel you need to work on how you word your arguments for better impact. For now, I'm sticking to the hundreds of papers from qualified anthropologists that are peer reviewed and published.
Everyone collects God's NFTd, not realizing ng they all have individualized bar codes. Thieves never prosper forever, and their sins are carried with their seed to the 12th generation
I really treasure your priceless knowledge and the clarity of your arguments.
I guess if I were to associate those points in the cave painting as the Pleiades, well, it's very convenient, since at the very least, I can see how they kind of match the location of the Pleiades with respect to the main stars of the constellation Taurus, whose horns are also pointed in the same direction.
I would love to hear more about the milky way being the spine of the world 👍🏻. Sounds very Interesting.
I still LOVE my legendary & INFAMOUS Crecganford Multi-purpose Mug!!!
It will love you back if you fill it with tea!
@@Crecganford How did you know it wasn't filled with tea???
I guess if I were to associate those points in the cave painting as the Pleiades, well, it's very convenient, since at the very least, I can see how they kind of match the location of the Pleiades with respect to the main stars of the constellation Taurus, whose horns are also pointed in the same direction.
I guess if I were to associate those points in the cave painting as the Pleiades, well, it's very convenient, since at the very least, I can see how they kind of match the location of the Pleiades with respect to the main stars of the constellation Taurus, whose horns are also pointed in the same direction.
I guess if I were to associate those points in the cave painting as the Pleiades, well, it's very convenient, since at the very least, I can see how they kind of match the location of the Pleiades with respect to the main stars of the constellation Taurus, whose horns are also pointed in the same direction.
I guess if I were to associate those points in the cave painting as the Pleiades, well, it's very convenient, since at the very least, I can see how they kind of match the location of the Pleiades with respect to the main stars of the constellation Taurus, whose horns are also pointed in the same direction.
I guess if I were to associate those points in the cave painting as the Pleiades, well, it's very convenient, since at the very least, I can see how they kind of match the location of the Pleiades with respect to the main stars of the constellation Taurus, whose horns are also pointed in the same direction.
I guess if I were to associate those points in the cave painting as the Pleiades, well, it's very convenient, since at the very least, I can see how they kind of match the location of the Pleiades with respect to the main stars of the constellation Taurus, whose horns are also pointed in the same direction.
Crecganford Never disappoints us! Thanks for your content.
Thank you.
Fascinating!
Thank you.
I began with Joseph Campbell and Huston Smith.
I-65 is coincidentally the name of a major Interstate Highway through the US State of Indiana
Thank you for actually doing the research. Lol. Really.
see that white splurge across the sky, a dwarf made all that. Really how could he do that? You dont want to know, some things are best as mystery
I will always ne amazed by the rigurosity of your methodology. Incredible work, as always.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
It be interesting to hear what someone 15,000 years or more ago thought when they saw when they saw the night sky
All the myths about the Milky Way that I've ever heard have it as a continuous thing (river, road, spine, and of course we get our name for it from a myth seeing it as milk) and not a large collection of individual anything, animals or otherwise.
I've always understood that to be because people didn't know the Milky Way even was made up of individual stars until the telescope was invented. Which would be another big strike against the bulls representing it.
For the algorithm
The galaxy was named after the candy bar.😅
I haven't come across one of those in decades.
on one screen i'm watching "the oldest myths of the milky way", on the other every single soccer game (hello from nyc) beer in hand, life is good 😊
If you're happy then I'm happy!
Need to swap that beer for a cup of tea, son!
Hello,
I really enjoy all of your videos and look forward to new ones coming out.
Can I ask you though there is something that appears to be absent as far as I can see from your channel? Many stories, myths, religions, that you talk about have origins that you indicate go back thousands of years. Whilst I know we will probably never know exactly what happened back then you often build the case from the evidence to make it quite compelling.
Now it seems to me that many ancient human populations from all over the world at some point co-existed with the mega fauna that have in some cases not been gone that long. But there are no stories that you tell us of humans interacting with them, which given the variety and in many cases the obscurity of the topics seems conspicuous by there absence?
I don't just mean recent extinctions,but real mega fauna, stories of mammoths and men, the massive birds in Australia and men,sabre cars of one variety or another and men, giant sloths and men. Probably many many more, but please where are the tales?
It appears that they are missing. I would love to hear what you can tell us about what ancient stories and myths say about these creatures,not just hearsay but actual researched proper stories.
Thank you for reading and considering my question/suggestion.
Yes, you're right, and the reason is that myth and stories change with the landscape and society, and so as animals leave the landscape so the stories change leaving little evidence of what was around them. Saying that the Cosmic Hunt mentions mamoths, and I will see if I can find evidence within other stories that we can have confidence in. If so I'll make a video about them.
Love your work! Was it a slip of the tongue at 6:26 intending to say “Siberia into America”? (Just looking to understand more :) )
Yes, we see migrations of humans into the Americas from Siberia. I mention it more later in the video.
@@Crecganfordthank you for clarifying :)
I guess if I were to associate those points in the cave painting as the Pleiades, well, it's very convenient, since at the very least, I can see how they kind of match the location of the Pleiades with respect to the main stars of the constellation Taurus, whose horns are also pointed in the same direction.
Ever since I started this channel last week my feed has been giving me all sorts of awesome channels like yours. I'm glad I found you. Subbed and looking forward to going back through your videos 📜
Thank you so much, and I hope you enjoy the journey through mythology and the stories of ancient cultures across the world.
Wish I could relive that moment. Enjoy the journey. Jon's channel is the reason I hang out on the Tube.
@Crecganford I fell asleep catching up on some of your older content. I woke up nice and fresh and ready to continue. You sir have got me hooked!
@benjiman_OBE Jon is great, love his manner. I'm glad there's so much content to catch up on!
Fascinating topic! A pleasure tuning in and watching your informative analysis on said sources brother! ❤😊
Thank you for watching, it is appreciated.
🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
Mythology database is a term that should not exist.
Then how else would you describe stories that were sacred to now lost religions?
Thank you.
Very interesting! I would love to hear you tell more of the stories from each of the subsets, river or the dead or the spine hypothesis.
Yes, there are so many versions of myth, but I think I shall try and cover some as soon as I can.
Awesome analysis as always! Thanks for sharing!!!
And thanks for watching, I'm pleased you enjoyed it.
Excellent work
Many thanks
Your out of Africa bias is getting tiresome. Can't you keep your politics in your pants?
It is antropology not politics, as I do not care for the later.
@@Crecganford George Antrobus would disagree. I think you just pretend to be neutral, as is the supposedly "safe" play