Katy Perry went from being the second person in history to having 5 billboard hot 100 number one songs on a single album (after MJ), to not even being able to reach the top 60 with her new song. That is crazy
Her Women’s World song is so god awful, even her hardcore fans can’t defend it. Hurts to say bcs I love Teenage Dream. Even worse is the added irony is the song’s intended meaning despite working with a washed Dr Puke despite his array of allegations
This is where I have so much admiration for an artist like Eminem. Whatever you think of his newer stuff to be a 90s artist and still have number one albums and singles in 2024 is extraordinary. Pretty sure he's the only one from his era charting with the Taylors the Billies and the other big current names
What she really did was waste her “low point” phase in her career. Lady Gaga is a PERFECT example of how to navigate this phase. She was at the height of her career (Born This Way) and within like a year was at her lowest (ARTPOP). But she took the criticism, channeled that into her work & her vocals, did a lot of small performances and tributes plus some acting roles but mainly stayed out of the spotlight. But when she came back, she hit with Joanne and changed her whole career trajectory with A Star is Born. Seeing her go from the biggest thing on earth, falling off & slowly but surely rise back up to perform at the Super Bowl and Coachella than win an Oscar was satisfying. You rooted for her, you saw her fall than redefine what the whole world thought of her and earn her respect. Katy Perry just feels like she’s trying to pick up right after Prism and negate Witness & Smile. Like she didn’t change anything, she’s still working with Dr.Luke and she never really went anywhere, she just lost popularity. I mean Lady Gaga went MIA for a good year before popping back up in AHS: Hotel but Perry was on American Idol & doing DoorDash commercials. So there’s no comeback to root for, it’s just like ohh she’s releasing another album & it’s not good. I view her winning the Vanguard Award as being a final goodbye & Thank you for your contribution to Pop but your era has ended.
It's only a waste if Katy Perry actually had the versatility to actually pivot and change things up. She's proven time and time again that she does not have it. Gaga had it-she had the versatility to go jazz and Joanne and at no point did she reach a creative low point. The world just weren't ready for Artpop, it sounds fresh even if you play it today. If you listen back to Katy Perry's old hits, they have not aged nearly as well.
The harsh truth is that Gaga is simply more talented than Katy Perry. Perry's songs were almost like memes before memes were a thing. There was never a sense of her as an "artist". She was always just *there* somehow, doing goofy things. There were a couple of exceptions were she tried, and almost pulled off, "depth". 'Wide Awake' was one of them but that wasn't what the general public wanted in a Katy Perry. Gaga, on the other hand, was always in an entirely different league as a pop star. When her imperial phase ended, she showed that she was still going to do the work as a musician and actress whether or not there was going to be an audience for it. She earned a lot of respect through that and it allowed her to transcend her "moment". She's a respected veteran which is what she always wanted to be anyway.
As someone who has worked in a grocery store since 2009, I’d be fine never having another Katy Perry song get popular and play in retail stores. I have been hearing at least a couple Katy Perry songs almost every working day for 15 years. Her entire discography sounds like it was made specifically to play in grocery stores almost like she created the genre.
@@raspyswirly notice how the every female pop performer has something incredibly distinct and show character and personality arguably at the forefront of their act - Sabrina, Chappell roan etc. those from the same era- Beyoncé, Lady Gaga, etc, have maintained longevity because they have managed to reinvent the wheel every single release and keeping it distinctive, unique and memorable to their respective audiences. Katy just hadn’t seemed to be able to figure out how to do the same in a captivating way.
@@HunterBlairAmbrose Exactly that. I'd say maybe there are some songs that approach that non-descriptness (Diamonds, Chandelier, Wrecking Ball, Tik Tok), but the artists themselves aren't defined by their palatability or at least have some depth to their performance and singing ability (like, I would say, Kelly Clarkson or Adele) to rise above it.
That can’t be it tho. I think it’s the lack of promotion and activity musically on her part. The reason I say that can’t be the reason is because yes Taylor has grown her sound and range but when you look at them without bias they were at one point two very similar artist and T Swift fans still come out when she makes that same type of sound.
In fairness, I've felt this way about some of Katy Perry's bigger hits over the years. It baffles me how "Roar" is such a big deal because there's not one organic thought in the whole thing. Every line feels stolen by motivational posters and I can't buy into the emotions. She has proven to do better than this, but I think that was a sign of her just settling for absolute banality. We just were accepting of it back then.
Not to mention how many of her lyrics were just like "I'm so hot you guys, look at how hot I am, I'm literally the hottest." Love song? I look so hot in my tight jeans and uh I love you. Empowerment song? I'm empowered by my hotness but I'd still be powerful if I weren't hot but I'm so hot right? It was just gross and offputting from day one.
RUclipsr Todd In the Shadows did a really interesting and insightful video about Witness. Something he talked about was the idea of the “delayed flop”; anything she released after Teenage Dream would have been successful, but Prism wasn’t that great. It sold and got radio play, sure, but it could be said that her decline started with that album and Witness was just the last nail in the coffin of her cultural relevance.
I just think she is completely divorced from the cultures and references she thinks she’s playing with. Despite tapping into some vague “divine feminine” ideal, her feminism is stuck in the past and the Dr. Luke association just makes it 10x worse. And then the whole futurism thing is just… a shiny aesthetic with no substance. It’s all shallow and surface and trendy but with no care about understanding why it’s trendy. It’s like she’s lost and is playing a caricature of her past. I think she thinks she’s doing satire, but if so it’s really not translating.
One thing worth mentioning is that Katy has been a judge on American Idol for a while now, which is not conducive to making music suitable for playing anywhere outside of a shopping mall. I have to imagine that her presence there has moved her fan base to be mostly middle aged moms and young kids.
Trisha Paytas, notorious online & offline ... troll? Personality? I dunno, just Google her, she's done too much dumb shit to go over in a RUclips comment
I saw Katy in Vegas near the end of her residency and she seemed completely over it. The energy was low asf and it felt like she was just going through the motions. I figured it was because she’d been doing the residency for some years when I saw her but seeing as how she’s approaching her new album with the same lack of energy and creativity, that doesn’t seem to be the case.
you know you're over when a random kid dancing manages to outshine your entire performance with lights and backup dancers and flashy outfits so hard people forget it was on your own show.
Let's hone that remark to just the backpack kid. For all we know, "she cut* her hair off" long before then to allow for quick-change hairstyling (wigs).
The smartest thing Katy Perry could have done for this album cycle would have been leaning into the emo revival. Made One of the Boys Part 2, had features like Avril and Olivia Rodrigo on it, had a bunch of guitar-driven tracks and piano ballads. People would have loved it.
@@BrandonAyongbut see that’s her appeal. She’s camp. Her going that direction actually would’ve read pretty high brow and self referential. But alas she chose to pander to the lowest common denominator gay man.
If I were Katy Perry, I would've returned to my One Of The Boys era. I would've made this sort of slow, romantic, instrumental, accoustic album. I would've taken inspiration in the Hudson River or the forests of New York and New England, for example. Something much more indie-sounding.
Collaborating with Dr Luke is honestly just such an unacceptable decision on so many fronts that it’s honestly cost me most of my remaining respect for Katy
You can't just say "the weird sudden spiral of Katy Perry's career we're currently witnessing" when you accidentally namedropped the record from 7 years ago that led to this trainwreck
What I find so shocking about Katy's downfall is that she had an actual comeback laid out directly in front of her. She had a successful vegas residency and a whole slew of recent acclaimed dance oriented albums to take inspiration from since that's the theme she is going for in this upcoming record. On top of that, you would think after two unsuccessful eras back to back, she would reflect on what didn't work with those previous two records and make something that can give her some sort of revitalism. Yet she just flat out ignores this golden opportunity and instead is continuing to take the wrong lessons from the past. It seems with this era she thinks that she has to go back to what worked with her in the early parts of her career, even having to reunite with Dr. Luke despite the bad press around him just because he produced nearly all of her biggest hits. The issue is that not only was that not the reason she fell off in the first place, but the style of music that carried her during the late 2000's to early 2010s doesn't work in 2024. It clearly reads to me that she doesn't actually care about her music career at this point when she continues to make these honestly piss poor decisions.
Very good analysis, you're right that her sound is really old school these days. Because you don't need a radio hit to get huge anymore, pop music has thankfully stopped being so tinny and chorus-heavy, modern stuff like Charli XCX can really go into more sonic depth, so a 2010-style Dr Luke produced earworm just sounds like something from a bygone era
The thing is she actually could write a decent song in the 2000's, but she doesn't feel like she's taken an active role in her career since the 2010's. Everything she's done in the last 10 years feels like the most bland, corporate, marketing focus group, paint by numbers trash you can do. It really feels she's just phoning it in. These songs were literally written by a committee, she's not an artist at this stage, she's a brand. I think she just lets the execs do whatever they want and slaps her name on it at the end. Her music feels lazy, cynical and phoned in because it basically is.
@@Tamajyn69 one of the boys was wrote by her exclusively, the rest are co-writes or wrote for hers. Not everyone can write a song and not everyone can sing them :). I honestly don’t know how KP could make this bad of a musical piece and not see it. The one of the boys album is a favourite of mine, incredible production and a wealth of beautiful pop music ideas. I think the main culprit for why the new music sucks is the lyrics, how could any good idea come from such lifeless words :/
An artist's career is finished when they become a judge on a TV talent show. It's kind of like a retirement home for stars. Once they get out of the retirement home, nobody cares about their music anymore. They only think of them as "that judge on that show". Being a judge on those shows is a bad career move. It moves you into the former star category quickly.
Adam Levine was a judge on the voice during the absolute peak of Maroon 5’s chart success from 2011-2019. If anything, Maroon 5 only fell off AFTER he stopped judging on the Voice
@@daltonhobbs8248 But his music has been far from peak Pharrell ever since he went solo. He has some great productions, but the legendary stuff is usually influenced by the presence of Chad Hugo. A few songs for Jay Z were great, but mostly you need both. However, this issue was far before he became a judge.
Makes the fact that Madonna has lasted over 40 years in the same industry as KP even more impressive. Madonna took huge risks with some of her albums, I think KP needs to do the same.
Meh... Madonna stayed relevant over the years because she sold sex and controversy throughout her music career... Once that died down her career is over...lol.
All of the main pop girls have either ventured into different industries like rihanna with fashion/makeup and gaga with film, or are constantly trying new things with their artistry. Katy just seems perpetually stuck in 2016
Katy Perry reminds me of how a lot of hair metal bands went from overproduced in the 80s to sounding like crappy garage bands in the 2000s. Producers and musicians are so important.
Katy Perry is totally locked in to that early 2010s sound, but refuses to bring it into the modern era. I mean for how annoying that period of music was, you've gotta go above and beyond to make it palatable.
I'm not sure that's it. There is a great deal of nostalgia for that era of music. In my opinion, it's not that the songs are dated, it's that the lyrics are trite and the compositions are boring. "Lifetimes" for example doesn't sound like old Katy Perry to me, it's generic Euro-pop.
I tend to go back to the Smile album. Lyrically it's not very deep overall, but it's good pop and the lead single "never really over" is such a good song.
I disagree. You could see her downfall miles away, even during the 2010s. She just happened to hit the jackspot with the right producers, writters and music climate (Radio still being big and iTunes being huge back then). Her team was very smart at marketing her image and sound during those years but as soon as the music climate changed she wasn't able to deliver and failed to reinvent herself.
I feel like another factor is that her style is prolly too cheesy for most ppl nowadays, there are younger fans and ppl who are more into different genres and styles and it has changed so much fi she were to make a successful comeback she really needs to reinvent a new style that fits the Taste of the general audiences and study more of how the music scene has changed.( which tbh I feel like she didn’t bc her songs literally sounded the same the past couple of years.)
The title of the album is pretty emblematic of the problem. 143 is slang for "I love you," which is pretty neat. Unfortunately, it's slang that dates back to the days of pagers, no one under 40 would even catch that.
I’m 26 and I don’t really recall ever hearing this slang, and I was doing a lot of T9 texting in the mid 00’s. It’s possible I just don’t remember it since it’s been so long.
Old slang comes back all the time…and ironically 304s has been a popular term among a certain YOUNG group and that is from the pager era too. So age has nothing to do with it you ageist. 😂 Stop assuming shit.
Todd in the Shadows banking on Witness being the end of her career really paid off. This isn't the beginning of her end this is the final nail in the coffin. Her career was basically dead but now she's burried.
I agree with Todd that Chained to the Rhythm is a good song, but yeah, pop songs where the message is ''stop listening to pop' don't really advance your career or get you new fans. The final, *FINAL* nail in the coffin is working with Dr. Luke again out of what seems like cowardice
She made the exact same decision as witness era, drop a political? song that ppl not buying and quickly change strategy to dropping shallow dance pop songs… so confusing
He said he was reluctant to make a Trainwreckords vid on Katy because he was an honest to god fan. And then he ends up making one of the saddest fucking career decline vids I’ve ever seen, definitely the saddest Trainwreckords vid. I think it shows what a fan he is/was to be so brutally honest about her.
I genuinely believe her when she says Woman’s World was her attempt at parody/satirizing her own persona as the “inspirational pop power ballad lady,” but first of all - why the *feeeeeck* would you choose a PARODY track as your big comeback single…? Also for it to work as satire/parody, people kinda need to know that going in, or it needs to be done in a way that is pretty obvious. With this? You honestly couldn’t tell. Especially with the Dr. Luke connection… although maybe that’s just her being extra dedicated to the bit of making a “female empowerment anthem,” with the irony being that it’s produced by a grapist. 😂
The problem is that Katy is very obviously trying to make a comeback instead of just trying to focus on writing good, authentic pop tunes. She had the greatest peak of any modern pop artist, which has not been matched since and has only occurred once prior from MJ. This will never happen again. The kind of 2010s manufactured bubble gum pop doesn't work anymore and I understand her trying to tap into that due to being crucified for trying to change her image in 2017. The problem is that it didn't feel authentic then, and it feels even less authentic now. Seems to have surprisingly bad instincts.
"Greatest pop star peak after MJ" see, I don't understand this. To me she has always been unbelievably mid. Her lyrics were always stupid as hell too... "do you ever feel like a plastic bag" no what the fuck are you talking about Katy...
"Authentic pop tunes" I'm sorry but when has she ever had any "authentic" music to begin with? Her music always sounded very commerical and modernized to me, so am I missing something here? 😭
Katy’s Music was good FOR THE TIME. Pop has evolved so much since then & honestly if I was her I’d realise how the public has slowly started to accept my new sound and try to make that a little more palatable for the new album. This song was unbelievably bad…from the beat, to the lyrics, to the MV, to the fact she chose to have a “female anthem” be created by a literal alleged rapist?? I mean it couldn’t be worse if she tried.
My ex loved Katy Perry, and I think she actually blasted her music to annoy me. Let me tell ya, that shit worked, too. I can't even thinking of that time period without gritting my teeth.
I think Todd in the Shadows did a good job of looking into when he did a video about Witness. Prism wasn't a great album that coasted off of the success from Teenage Dream, but because it had two No. 1's (which were both pretty mid in Roar and Dark Horse) it was still seen as a success. Then, you had the utter mess that was Witness, a hodgepodge of ideas, themes and just bad songs. I think the title track is actually pretty underrated, but the rest of the album is forgettable at best. We then get to Smile, which just kind of existed and still had the funk from Witness hanging over it. It's been seven years since she had a top-10 single (Witness) and 11 since she had a No. 1 (how did we let Dark Horse get to No. 1, seriously?).
I think the Witness song you're thinking of is Chained to the Rhythm. The title track didn't chart , but Chained made it to number four. And despite its success and decent reception, it was never going to launch Katy Perry into a new age of success when the theme and message of the song is "My music is vapid and meaningless, but you still listen to it because the world is falling apart."
I'm not even mad at the melody of Woman's World. The tune to the chorus is quite nice, but jesus christ - Dr Luke? Hilary Clinton style feminism?? Beyond lazy verses??? Still trying to be "camp" and funny in her videos and failing horribly????? Does she even want to be a pop star anymore! Like it must be intentional to make this many bad decisions.
The stench of desperation is not easy to wash off, and that's all I've been getting from Katy Perry since Witness. Desperation and trend chasing. She just wants people to like her. She'll do whatever she needs to do, be whatever she needs to be, as long as it makes people like her again. It's sad, it's pathetic, but it's also kinda dark. Working with Dr. Luke just proves it; she doesn't actually believe in anything. All that girl power, positive life affirming stuff she sings about? It's bullshit. She doesn't care about it. She doesn't care about anything but success. And yet, she _still_ can't find it. Imagine selling your soul to the devil and not even getting anything cool in the trade. What a loser
"All that girl power, positive life affirming stuff she sings about? It's bullshit. She doesn't care about it. She doesn't care about anything but success" To be fair, she's hardly alone among fake-woke celebrities in being guilty of that.
It really is a desperation thing - you can tell since witness she’s been trying to win back popular opinion and it’s just resulting with very drab, uninspired music.
She's a multimillionaire married to one of the sexiest man alive and has a beautiful daughter and is living her life in the finest places on earth. I think she's doing alright. Meanwhile you're typing this long ass hate comment calling her a loser. Ok.
@@polbzh found the katy kat! I mean, I don't disagree that she has an amazing life. But her having an amazing life does not mean she's happy, or satisfied with how people see her. If she were, she would just retire instead of continuing to stain her legacy by making crap like this.
exactly. like sure, she has money and a perfect family, but she clearly looks desperate to reclaim her relevancy and almost monopoly of the top of the charts of her glorious days as a singer, alongside being loved by the general public again. hell, she even dyed her hair back to black bc according to her, "this is what her fans wanted". she's not living for herself, and it shows.
I legit thought the new songs were AI generated considering how satirical the songs and music videos feel... but no, no. Thats just what you sound like when you turn music into an assembly line
That's the exact same thing as what happened to Brandon Urie from Panic! At the Disco after the backlash of his last album, 'Viva Las Vengeance', he had to retire making music to take care of his family and private life around him.
The general public has no idea who the hell dr luke is so this narative that yall have that people are avoiding her new projects because of him is so dumb
You know it's bad for Katy when even her own fans have convinced themselves that Woman's World wasn't the lead single, and that Lifetimes is actually the lead. Just embarrassing! The internet really seemed primed for her revival at the beginning of this year, people wanted that Teenage Dream sound that nobody else in pop is giving right now. I truly feel she should have returned to the sound of her scrapped 2004 album or One of the Boys - like Katy, pick up your guitar! She is at her best with that singer-songwriter, sort of Alanis Morrisette-esque sound. People may not think it, but she's actually had such an interesting career and time in the music industry, since she was 17. So many instances that I would rather hear her write and sing a song about, than Woman's World (and Lifetimes). Leaving your hometown and Christian faith for LA in the early 2000s. Having a record deal, recording an album, then having that scrapped and starting from square one. Having a few of those album tracks be used by other artists (eg Kelly Clarkson) for one of her biggest hits. Then finally having your big break in 2008, and being on top of the world for 6 years with back to back number 1s. Then trying to reinvent yourself and having a couple flop eras. Getting married and having a child, approaching 40 in the pop industry... All things that are so much more interesting and integral to Katy Perry than the absolute garbage and over-produced, over-contrived pop of Woman's World and Lifetimes. So disappointing.
Surprise I have not seen this mention in the comments but THE reason for Perry’s early success was her working with Max Martin. He produced and wrote all of her biggest hits. Once they stopped working together, she fell off.
Being a celebrity has got to be terrifying. People root for you to succeed and when you start succeeding they root for your failure. It’s gut wrenching to watch.
Because you're new and people want the new all the time. Then when you settle in and you had a couple of years people are tired of you. Eminem said it best "These hos don't want him no more he's cold product They move on to the next "
Well, these people knew what they signed up for. Fame comes with decreased privacy, and increased scrutiny. Can't imagine why anyone would want to be famous, but each to their own.
I’m not really buying the reason the song didn’t do well is because she worked with Dr. Luke. The general public or an average radio listener doesn’t really follow every detail. I think people give stan twitter too much credit when in reality the music is just not connecting
Not on twitter, so I haven’t seen what people are saying, but my impression is if your stans aren’t hyping up your music and blowing it up, it’s not going to trickle out to the GP who aren’t going to seek her out and anticipate what she has to offer. If her stans are put off by Dr Luke producing, they won’t push it, and the music isn’t strong enough for it to travel very far on its own. She’s pissed off the people she needed the most
Not going to give Twitter specifically (stan communities are also spread across Reddit, Tik Tok, RUclips, Discord, Facebook Groups, etc) much credit but I think a lot of mainstream success these days in downstream of various stan communities. Normie venues for promoting music like FM radio want to pick up stuff that has buzz online.
I've always been a firm believer that when artists start to have a good life that their music starts to drop off entirely. Now she's a mother and she's with the love of her life, the musical quality is a struggle. She did her best music when she was with Russell Brand and she was unhappy. Prove me wrong
She's the main act at the upcoming 2024 AFL (Australian football) Grand Final - basically our little country's modest version of the Superbowl. If that ain't a sign of falling off then I don't know what is.
The moment she dropped “Swish Swish” i knew it was done for her, she brought in this rap and EDM phase to herself that i didn’t really click with, Witness as a whole is an atrociously bad album and really is her version of “Revival”, i thought “One Of The Boys” and “Teenage Dream” were instant classics, Prism i thought was mediocre with 3-4 only good songs, and the rest of the catalog plummeted from there. I grew up listening to pop music and she was one of the main pop artists I listened to, now i don’t usually listen to pop and didn’t even know she dropped an album or a single. And it’s not like I’m a hater of hers now or anything but it’s like, she’s been out of the picture when it comes to pop music for many years now, Now when I think of pop, I think of Taylor Swift or a more modern star like Billie or Doja Cat.
Gave it a listen, the best word I can describe it was "Shopping Mall Core", there is nothing inherently wrong with it, but its not very memorable in any particular way either. I'd be hearing music like this while I shopping and they will totally fly over my head the entire time. Also the lyrics are fitting, what can I say.
One of my most formative experiences with music as a kid was being exposed to pop music for the first time in 2010. Prior to that I was pretty sheltered when it came to pop culture, but hearing the work of artists like Rihanna, Katy Perry and ESPECIALLY Gaga and Ke$ha genuinely changed my life. I had never heard anything like it, and to this day I still love the music all of them made during that time, Teenage Dream had so many hits. To see that Katy has fallen off this hard while everyone else I mentioned has either kept dropping good music or are at least maintaining very respectable legacies… it’s really unfortunate.
Everyone else hasn't though. At least commercially, Kesha, Lady Gaga and Rihanna are not making hit songs or albums anymore either. Pop stars just get older and lose relevance. They start working on other stuff (like TV shows or movies makeup brands), they want to raise families, or unfortunately many have personal or industry problems (like Kesha or Britney) that holds them down. Sure Katy Perry fell off but after about 10 or so years just about everyone does.
@@krombopulos_michaelRihanna has a respectable legacy and Kesha is still dropping music people seem to care about so… I don’t see your point. Like yeah they’re not as big as they once were but that’s normal, I’m not arguing they’re still ruling the charts. Think before you comment bruh.
As a straight white male prog rock fan in his 30s, I absolutely loved everything Katy Perry put out up till Prism. I even enjoyed Witness a decent amount. I was hoping this run would’ve brought something more exciting. Sad to see 😔
witness was, as todd in the shadows, a decent execution of a questionable concept. this on other hand feels like there's barely any concept and on top of it all executed horrifically.
Katy’s been flailing since Witness; her big push to try and be deeper failed massively; poptimism and “purposeful pop” are both basically gone, and all she has left based on how self conscious that album made her out to be; the only thing she has left to feel like she’s contributing something other than vapid easy listening music (she comes across as a person who does not want to be seen as being as shallow as her reputation suggests) is her surface level white feminism that carried her memorable big hit singles. “Women’s World” is the inevitable result of this trajectory. At this point I wonder if Todd will have to put her on Trainwreckords twice
Tbh Katy as a mainstream artists the music is alr, the promotion that her record is so bad, leaving only her fans to stream not much the gp. I genuinely think both the record label and dr Luke are making it seem as if they fabricated the spiral of her fall out. As a fan I am hoping she learns, and re directs to a more grounded feel because it’s what’s in atm with both Taylor and Billie leading.
@@StudioScarecrowr u talking commercial success or artistry? I don’t listen to all of those but I like their music and agree that they are the next generation of music, although Charlie started her career in 2013 opening for Katy, her album seems to be doing really good tho I think Sabrina is also becoming main pop girl
@@Kelexsis Taylor will probably keep selling super well forever because she has an insane cult but as far as artistry she’s done and I can’t see her relevancy going anywhere but down
@@StudioScarecrow If you think Taylor is fading anytime soon then you are delusional. The Swifties are massive in number (possibly the biggest fanbase in the world) and they worship her like a god. She'll be reining the Pop throne til she passes from old age. And even then she might continue to hold the throne.
Technically her fall off HAS BEEN STUDIED in TRAINWRECKORDS by Todd in the Shadow few years back. Once you're in Trainwreckords you'll never climb up to your once prominent status again.
@@ronarnold1507 nah, albums that came past St Anger does still have good promotional runs (thanks to the band’s fame) but I dont think post-st anger products are as popular as the previous albums that came before.
@@ronarnold1507 Yeah, Todd himself has even said he plays fast and loose with what makes it on, and St. Anger was more just the end of them being huge crossover stars and the ep was more for the notoriety of the album itself
@@TheAndyk123 maybe 20 years ago but not now. Gaga, Bruno, Adele, Cardi B, Britney have all done residencies. Young people go to Vegas too and don't want to see oldies.
She's trying to revive 2010s pop, but we've already moved on. She still has her old catalog and that's peak 2010s pop. At this point she gotta move on because she's getting left behind for good
Katy was never good to begin with. She does not have a particular talent and was a good popstar, not a singer, songwriter or dancer. She was really lucky to last that long. She should embrace her prime and retire.
I remember some clip (I think it was Beyonce?) saying a lot of artists put out singles and don’t make albums anymore. I think this goes back to that. I don’t know a lot of people who listen to her albums but I know a lot of people who love her singles like California girls, teenage dream, etc.
It even influenced Rihanna around that time who switched from RnB and pop to Full Loud pop with songs that were very katy perryesque (, Only girl in the world. S&M ect )
Yeah, the difference its that kim petras has alway been a background niche artist that nobady really care about. She is awfull, but you can flop when you never really succeded. AND the whole point of witness was rebranding herself as a social consicius liberated feminist; work with dr luke again its a hypocrite move, a suicide move.
add adam levine, nicki, doja, drake, kid laroi, ava max, juice wrld, etc. these double standards are insane, without mentioning dr luke is innocent, kesha lied and wanted katy to lie in court along with gaga but thats not sensational enough right?
I honestly had no expectation that Katy could ‘save pop’ lol, for me Katy peaked/artistically years ago & just doesn’t have a great ear for music to make a huge comeback. I also think the creative uncertainty comes from when you’ve taken risks that haven’t commercially paid off, so you now rely on older formulas that may have worked on classic albums in your arsenal but defo not when today’s pop girl songwriters have changed the game.
We say she "saved" pop because she brought Dr. Luke back lol and this is an objective fact. She did save pop. I sure as hell know I'd rather listen to WW or P Lifetimes over anything we call pop today like Charli xcx who isn't even a pop star or Sabrina Carpenter whose entire claim to fame is plagiarizing Dr. Luke's Say So.
I think a high percentage of the world doesn’t make good relationship decisions, that doesn’t at all correlate with her lack of ability to produce a hit. Diddy sucked at relationships, as we all know now, but produced hits for a long time for himself and his artist’s, so good or bad relationships/marriages means jack shit to making hits. Also must of her heavy hits were from the year she was with Brand 😂. Math ain’t mathing. Stay on topic. Katy Perry just sucks at making hit song (period).
It was her 2017 album. That was such a bomb with the strange decisions she made with it, alongside lessening returns from Dark Horse finally kicking in, pretty much destroyed her momentum and ability to get hits. Everything after has been a desperate attempt to regain old fame to no results. I think Todd in the Shadows' observation that some pop stars can only be that with hits was spot on. She lost ability to make hits once the momentum was interrupted.
todd is a little too good with his predictions lol. but it's true: for example, i barely know any katy kats on the internet or in real life, but in my college campus alone i can shake a tree and a bunch of swifties would fall down.
I feel like she did the Superbowl Halftime Show, said to herself "well, it's not gonna get better than this" and then worked hard to fullfill that prophecy.
I don't know about y'all but personally I thought she was already has been by the time I saw that music video she did with migos that was her downfall to me. Like i remember being a kid and hearing her hits then becoming a teenager, and hearing her for the first time since and she was tryna fit in with the hip hop artists that everyone was listening to + her cringe personality equal it was over then. It was a 3-year hiatus, but it feels like a lifetime for the people that aren't stans but the general public.
Lifetimes is wildly better, but its very safe. And the truth is probably most of it was done by 1 person, but you don't get a song released by a popstar usually without a lot of people digging their claws into the writers share. Songwriters don't have the leverage to say no.
You could say her career was hot & now it's cold
Banger
It was yes now it's no.
@@ehellsword2 was right now it's wrong
@@Danny1420 She was up and now she's down
@@stardust-vi She was in and now she's out
This is karma for what she’s done to the past 15 years of retail workers
Best comment here.
Most celebrities could use this kind of karma nowadays
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
LMFAOOOO 😂😂
it's really a *bitch* isn't it?
Katy Perry went from being the second person in history to having 5 billboard hot 100 number one songs on a single album (after MJ), to not even being able to reach the top 60 with her new song. That is crazy
Her Women’s World song is so god awful, even her hardcore fans can’t defend it. Hurts to say bcs I love Teenage Dream. Even worse is the added irony is the song’s intended meaning despite working with a washed Dr Puke despite his array of allegations
This is where I have so much admiration for an artist like Eminem. Whatever you think of his newer stuff to be a 90s artist and still have number one albums and singles in 2024 is extraordinary. Pretty sure he's the only one from his era charting with the Taylors the Billies and the other big current names
@@BrandonAyong Hell nah. Eminem is ok, but he’s only charting number 1 bcs of hardcore nostalgia bait
@@LessGo7921 The eminem hate is almost as obnoxious as the eminem fans now lmao
@@LessGo7921 That's not true even albums where he had a total different sound from his early days still went number 1 ( Recovery. MTBMB ect )
What she really did was waste her “low point” phase in her career.
Lady Gaga is a PERFECT example of how to navigate this phase. She was at the height of her career (Born This Way) and within like a year was at her lowest (ARTPOP). But she took the criticism, channeled that into her work & her vocals, did a lot of small performances and tributes plus some acting roles but mainly stayed out of the spotlight. But when she came back, she hit with Joanne and changed her whole career trajectory with A Star is Born.
Seeing her go from the biggest thing on earth, falling off & slowly but surely rise back up to perform at the Super Bowl and Coachella than win an Oscar was satisfying. You rooted for her, you saw her fall than redefine what the whole world thought of her and earn her respect.
Katy Perry just feels like she’s trying to pick up right after Prism and negate Witness & Smile. Like she didn’t change anything, she’s still working with Dr.Luke and she never really went anywhere, she just lost popularity. I mean Lady Gaga went MIA for a good year before popping back up in AHS: Hotel but Perry was on American Idol & doing DoorDash commercials. So there’s no comeback to root for, it’s just like ohh she’s releasing another album & it’s not good.
I view her winning the Vanguard Award as being a final goodbye & Thank you for your contribution to Pop but your era has ended.
Artpop is a great album, though.
was art pop poorly received?
@@goatedplayer1892at the time
It's only a waste if Katy Perry actually had the versatility to actually pivot and change things up. She's proven time and time again that she does not have it. Gaga had it-she had the versatility to go jazz and Joanne and at no point did she reach a creative low point. The world just weren't ready for Artpop, it sounds fresh even if you play it today. If you listen back to Katy Perry's old hits, they have not aged nearly as well.
The harsh truth is that Gaga is simply more talented than Katy Perry. Perry's songs were almost like memes before memes were a thing. There was never a sense of her as an "artist". She was always just *there* somehow, doing goofy things. There were a couple of exceptions were she tried, and almost pulled off, "depth". 'Wide Awake' was one of them but that wasn't what the general public wanted in a Katy Perry. Gaga, on the other hand, was always in an entirely different league as a pop star. When her imperial phase ended, she showed that she was still going to do the work as a musician and actress whether or not there was going to be an audience for it. She earned a lot of respect through that and it allowed her to transcend her "moment". She's a respected veteran which is what she always wanted to be anyway.
This feels like the absolute epitome of trying to please everyone, inevitably pleasing no one
As someone who has worked in a grocery store since 2009, I’d be fine never having another Katy Perry song get popular and play in retail stores. I have been hearing at least a couple Katy Perry songs almost every working day for 15 years. Her entire discography sounds like it was made specifically to play in grocery stores almost like she created the genre.
hilarious and true
Grocery stores and lame high school events.
Grocery-core
Lol I don’t blame you. But songs like ET and Cali Girls are so good, I will forever like Teenage Dream 😂
taylor swift has got to be the ultimate boss
Fantano's shirt looking like he should be holding a dead fish on a Tinder profile.
But he’s vegan
? He’s not wearing a shirt…
Redscroll is an awesome record store in Wallingford CT
@@danielaxc2900tofu fish. Tofish, if you will.
You didn't see the fish in this video?
I think it's a broader conversation of the era of overly palatable, safe, non descript dance pop music being most certainly on its way out.
Thank god
This was always Katy Perry, true. I'm just wondering who else of her "era" were/are making the same kind of music?
@@raspyswirly notice how the every female pop performer has something incredibly distinct and show character and personality arguably at the forefront of their act - Sabrina, Chappell roan etc.
those from the same era- Beyoncé, Lady Gaga, etc, have maintained longevity because they have managed to reinvent the wheel every single release and keeping it distinctive, unique and memorable to their respective audiences. Katy just hadn’t seemed to be able to figure out how to do the same in a captivating way.
@@HunterBlairAmbrose Exactly that. I'd say maybe there are some songs that approach that non-descriptness (Diamonds, Chandelier, Wrecking Ball, Tik Tok), but the artists themselves aren't defined by their palatability or at least have some depth to their performance and singing ability (like, I would say, Kelly Clarkson or Adele) to rise above it.
That can’t be it tho. I think it’s the lack of promotion and activity musically on her part. The reason I say that can’t be the reason is because yes Taylor has grown her sound and range but when you look at them without bias they were at one point two very similar artist and T Swift fans still come out when she makes that same type of sound.
In fairness, I've felt this way about some of Katy Perry's bigger hits over the years. It baffles me how "Roar" is such a big deal because there's not one organic thought in the whole thing. Every line feels stolen by motivational posters and I can't buy into the emotions. She has proven to do better than this, but I think that was a sign of her just settling for absolute banality. We just were accepting of it back then.
Not to mention how many of her lyrics were just like "I'm so hot you guys, look at how hot I am, I'm literally the hottest." Love song? I look so hot in my tight jeans and uh I love you. Empowerment song? I'm empowered by my hotness but I'd still be powerful if I weren't hot but I'm so hot right? It was just gross and offputting from day one.
Roar is a good song
this is so correct
I wasn’t excepting of it, it was always a lame song.
_Roar_ is at least catchy though. And it has that kind of bombastic feel she was known for. This new stuff is just so bland.
RUclipsr Todd In the Shadows did a really interesting and insightful video about Witness. Something he talked about was the idea of the “delayed flop”; anything she released after Teenage Dream would have been successful, but Prism wasn’t that great. It sold and got radio play, sure, but it could be said that her decline started with that album and Witness was just the last nail in the coffin of her cultural relevance.
That was a great video by Todd.
I just think she is completely divorced from the cultures and references she thinks she’s playing with. Despite tapping into some vague “divine feminine” ideal, her feminism is stuck in the past and the Dr. Luke association just makes it 10x worse. And then the whole futurism thing is just… a shiny aesthetic with no substance. It’s all shallow and surface and trendy but with no care about understanding why it’s trendy. It’s like she’s lost and is playing a caricature of her past. I think she thinks she’s doing satire, but if so it’s really not translating.
why does it have to have substance? it's just a theme for the album/song
nailed it
@@kidrobot. The problem is the "theme" hasn't made it's way into the music. That's why is just bandwagoning, surface level nonsense.
@@kidrobot. Did you honestly just ask that??
@@sean_mc who else is doing the futuristic theme?
One thing worth mentioning is that Katy has been a judge on American Idol for a while now, which is not conducive to making music suitable for playing anywhere outside of a shopping mall. I have to imagine that her presence there has moved her fan base to be mostly middle aged moms and young kids.
Yes, it was a bad career move on her part.
@@Arcslogger and the 2016 DNC
Honestly, Katy Perry’s career is over. She quit American Idol, and now she’s failing music.
They already started playing woman’s world at the Walmart
She's trying to pander to gays while making music that's for middle aged moms
Dr. Luke and Trisha on the same song about feminism is pretty hilarious
Ootl, who's trisha
Trisha Paytas, notorious online & offline ... troll? Personality? I dunno, just Google her, she's done too much dumb shit to go over in a RUclips comment
@@lukasmadrid1945 Trisha Paytas
I'll never get why so many people hopped back on the Trisha train. She is, and always has been, a bad person
@@emophobe i meant more what did they do, from a search i can see they did muckbangs and a podcast w/ h3h3 but nothing obviously bad
I saw Katy in Vegas near the end of her residency and she seemed completely over it. The energy was low asf and it felt like she was just going through the motions. I figured it was because she’d been doing the residency for some years when I saw her but seeing as how she’s approaching her new album with the same lack of energy and creativity, that doesn’t seem to be the case.
Its when she cut her hair off and performed that terrible swish song with backpack kid.
you know you're over when a random kid dancing manages to outshine your entire performance with lights and backup dancers and flashy outfits so hard people forget it was on your own show.
That song is one of my guilty pleasures. And I feel VERY guilty.
Let's hone that remark to just the backpack kid. For all we know, "she cut* her hair off" long before then to allow for quick-change hairstyling (wigs).
@jan-willemvandijk3850 that's gotta be the biggest guilty pleasure admissions I've ever seen
No lie tho, Bon Appetit really grew on me personally over the years
The only thing worse than working with Dr Luke, is working with Dr Luke only for the song to be mid at best
This. Couldn't even make a Say So adjacent.
bonnie mckee was a big part of her early success. bonnie mckees album sounds more katy perry than katy perry now
If you're going to work with a horrible abuser, you better make a track so good that it makes people ignore it.
Say So or Kiss Me More this ain't.
The smartest thing Katy Perry could have done for this album cycle would have been leaning into the emo revival. Made One of the Boys Part 2, had features like Avril and Olivia Rodrigo on it, had a bunch of guitar-driven tracks and piano ballads. People would have loved it.
I have no idea why she didn’t think to do this
I think people would have called it cheap though. I would have rather her re introduce herself with a brand new sound
@@BrandonAyong Katy Perry *is* cheap. Even her good music is cheap
@@BrandonAyongbut see that’s her appeal. She’s camp. Her going that direction actually would’ve read pretty high brow and self referential. But alas she chose to pander to the lowest common denominator gay man.
If I were Katy Perry, I would've returned to my One Of The Boys era.
I would've made this sort of slow, romantic, instrumental, accoustic album.
I would've taken inspiration in the Hudson River or the forests of New York and New England, for example.
Something much more indie-sounding.
Collaborating with Dr Luke is honestly just such an unacceptable decision on so many fronts that it’s honestly cost me most of my remaining respect for Katy
@@jeremytewari3346 yeah it was an awful decision lady Gaga has also been exposed to been working with him for her last album in 2020
@@Kelexsis Bro I’m crying rn I don’t wanna know these things why everyone a sexual deviant or friends with one 😭
@@Kelexsisdr luke did not produce anything on chromatica
@@jeremytewari3346 its not true just katykats trying to have their gotcha moment
Birds of a feather. She's a sexually aggressive person herself.
It’s not a sudden downturn. It’s gone out since “Witness”. And that was in 2017.
She’s been done.
You can't just say "the weird sudden spiral of Katy Perry's career we're currently witnessing" when you accidentally namedropped the record from 7 years ago that led to this trainwreck
monokumaaaaa
Witness has even become a slang term for a flop in Latin America
What I find so shocking about Katy's downfall is that she had an actual comeback laid out directly in front of her. She had a successful vegas residency and a whole slew of recent acclaimed dance oriented albums to take inspiration from since that's the theme she is going for in this upcoming record. On top of that, you would think after two unsuccessful eras back to back, she would reflect on what didn't work with those previous two records and make something that can give her some sort of revitalism.
Yet she just flat out ignores this golden opportunity and instead is continuing to take the wrong lessons from the past. It seems with this era she thinks that she has to go back to what worked with her in the early parts of her career, even having to reunite with Dr. Luke despite the bad press around him just because he produced nearly all of her biggest hits. The issue is that not only was that not the reason she fell off in the first place, but the style of music that carried her during the late 2000's to early 2010s doesn't work in 2024. It clearly reads to me that she doesn't actually care about her music career at this point when she continues to make these honestly piss poor decisions.
She trash
Very good analysis, you're right that her sound is really old school these days. Because you don't need a radio hit to get huge anymore, pop music has thankfully stopped being so tinny and chorus-heavy, modern stuff like Charli XCX can really go into more sonic depth, so a 2010-style Dr Luke produced earworm just sounds like something from a bygone era
The thing is she actually could write a decent song in the 2000's, but she doesn't feel like she's taken an active role in her career since the 2010's. Everything she's done in the last 10 years feels like the most bland, corporate, marketing focus group, paint by numbers trash you can do. It really feels she's just phoning it in. These songs were literally written by a committee, she's not an artist at this stage, she's a brand. I think she just lets the execs do whatever they want and slaps her name on it at the end. Her music feels lazy, cynical and phoned in because it basically is.
@@Tamajyn69 one of the boys was wrote by her exclusively, the rest are co-writes or wrote for hers. Not everyone can write a song and not everyone can sing them :). I honestly don’t know how KP could make this bad of a musical piece and not see it. The one of the boys album is a favourite of mine, incredible production and a wealth of beautiful pop music ideas. I think the main culprit for why the new music sucks is the lyrics, how could any good idea come from such lifeless words :/
@@FabianMacGintyONeillCharli XCX had a radio hit….
she never really had stans which is bizarre for a pop star of her stature
Wal*Mart radio "curators" would disagree. There has never been a better artist for selling children's bicycles and threadbare graphic tees.
majority of her supporters are just the general public so when new trend rises, artist like her just fade away like look at dua lipa rn
@@louieb.726at least Dua lipa makes good music on occasion 😂
@@Wowwowpow13yeah but shes a mainstream artist and that she needs a hit to stay relevant or she will end up like katy i fear
Katycats never existed, its a fact
An artist's career is finished when they become a judge on a TV talent show. It's kind of like a retirement home for stars. Once they get out of the retirement home, nobody cares about their music anymore. They only think of them as "that judge on that show". Being a judge on those shows is a bad career move. It moves you into the former star category quickly.
Not Ariana Grande.
It has a lot more to do with just making mediocre music lol
Pharrell was a judge on the voice and you can say his music isn’t the same but I’d say his career is just fine
@@enigmapopstarisfunthis
Adam Levine was a judge on the voice during the absolute peak of Maroon 5’s chart success from 2011-2019. If anything, Maroon 5 only fell off AFTER he stopped judging on the Voice
@@daltonhobbs8248 But his music has been far from peak Pharrell ever since he went solo. He has some great productions, but the legendary stuff is usually influenced by the presence of Chad Hugo. A few songs for Jay Z were great, but mostly you need both.
However, this issue was far before he became a judge.
Makes the fact that Madonna has lasted over 40 years in the same industry as KP even more impressive. Madonna took huge risks with some of her albums, I think KP needs to do the same.
Meh... Madonna stayed relevant over the years because she sold sex and controversy throughout her music career... Once that died down her career is over...lol.
❤🙌
Madonna's last successful album was MDNA at most.
All of the main pop girls have either ventured into different industries like rihanna with fashion/makeup and gaga with film, or are constantly trying new things with their artistry. Katy just seems perpetually stuck in 2016
@@rao803 Still an impressive run.
Katy Perry reminds me of how a lot of hair metal bands went from overproduced in the 80s to sounding like crappy garage bands in the 2000s. Producers and musicians are so important.
Which hair metal bands were making records in the 2000s?
@@_jacksheldon I mean, they were doing them, it's just that they barely charted.
Mötley Crüe
@@dancegregorydance6933 Thank you for the example.
What if she's trying to ruin Dr Luke's career from the inside?
That'd be cool
Katy sacrificing herself for the greater good😢
Should be top comment 😭
The mental gymnastics the Katyrats do 😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Katy Perry is totally locked in to that early 2010s sound, but refuses to bring it into the modern era. I mean for how annoying that period of music was, you've gotta go above and beyond to make it palatable.
Fucking “Dynamite,” man. Hated that song then and still hate it now.
I'm not sure that's it. There is a great deal of nostalgia for that era of music. In my opinion, it's not that the songs are dated, it's that the lyrics are trite and the compositions are boring. "Lifetimes" for example doesn't sound like old Katy Perry to me, it's generic Euro-pop.
@@HeftyDan Katy Perry is god's perfect Obama 2012 liberal. She is too locked in
It's not even that she isn't modernizing, this sounds uninspired and soulless even by the worst of 2010s standards.
Found the boomer. Have you heard of Rick beato? Might be a more suitable channel for you.
It's all be down hill since the back pack kid.
He stole her show
I tend to go back to the Smile album. Lyrically it's not very deep overall, but it's good pop and the lead single "never really over" is such a good song.
THANK YOU! Smile is honestly so underrated
I liked bending hectic from the Smile album 👍
I disagree. You could see her downfall miles away, even during the 2010s. She just happened to hit the jackspot with the right producers, writters and music climate (Radio still being big and iTunes being huge back then). Her team was very smart at marketing her image and sound during those years but as soon as the music climate changed she wasn't able to deliver and failed to reinvent herself.
Yeah, she was just like a hard habit for pop radio to break for awhile.
Its crazy what music has become.
I feel like another factor is that her style is prolly too cheesy for most ppl nowadays, there are younger fans and ppl who are more into different genres and styles and it has changed so much fi she were to make a successful comeback she really needs to reinvent a new style that fits the Taste of the general audiences and study more of how the music scene has changed.( which tbh I feel like she didn’t bc her songs literally sounded the same the past couple of years.)
@@krusher74 the music industry has been working artists until they're mediocre downfall like this for decades now bruv
Yeah max martin is not a writer in any of these songs. you can hear it
The title of the album is pretty emblematic of the problem. 143 is slang for "I love you," which is pretty neat.
Unfortunately, it's slang that dates back to the days of pagers, no one under 40 would even catch that.
Nah I'm under 40 and ive heard 143 plenty of times over my life.
@@justsummers1559I’m 20 and I’ve never heard 143 like ever😭 until Katy Perry said the meaning
I’m 26 and I don’t really recall ever hearing this slang, and I was doing a lot of T9 texting in the mid 00’s. It’s possible I just don’t remember it since it’s been so long.
Old slang comes back all the time…and ironically 304s has been a popular term among a certain YOUNG group and that is from the pager era too. So age has nothing to do with it you ageist. 😂 Stop assuming shit.
i think only stray kids fans would understand it lol
Todd in the Shadows banking on Witness being the end of her career really paid off. This isn't the beginning of her end this is the final nail in the coffin. Her career was basically dead but now she's burried.
Witness was such a confusing album
I agree with Todd that Chained to the Rhythm is a good song, but yeah, pop songs where the message is ''stop listening to pop' don't really advance your career or get you new fans. The final, *FINAL* nail in the coffin is working with Dr. Luke again out of what seems like cowardice
the way the monkeys paw curled a finger up as he said "maybe she needed dr Luke" was a bit disturbing, but yeah.
She made the exact same decision as witness era, drop a political? song that ppl not buying and quickly change strategy to dropping shallow dance pop songs… so confusing
He said he was reluctant to make a Trainwreckords vid on Katy because he was an honest to god fan.
And then he ends up making one of the saddest fucking career decline vids I’ve ever seen, definitely the saddest Trainwreckords vid.
I think it shows what a fan he is/was to be so brutally honest about her.
I think "Swish swish bish" was the beginning of the end for KP... I still think that's one of the worst songs/music videos I've ever experienced lol
ANOTHER ONE IN THE BASKET
ANOTHER ONE IN THE CASKET
Hahaha that was an awesome song 🤣
The fact the song Taylor made was bad blood and it was still better than katys response
@@lewisepicfootycontent5934Taylor also released "Look What You Made Me Do" video on the same day as the "Swish Swish" music video.
Double dunk!
I genuinely believe her when she says Woman’s World was her attempt at parody/satirizing her own persona as the “inspirational pop power ballad lady,” but first of all - why the *feeeeeck* would you choose a PARODY track as your big comeback single…?
Also for it to work as satire/parody, people kinda need to know that going in, or it needs to be done in a way that is pretty obvious. With this? You honestly couldn’t tell. Especially with the Dr. Luke connection… although maybe that’s just her being extra dedicated to the bit of making a “female empowerment anthem,” with the irony being that it’s produced by a grapist. 😂
For some reason Katy always believed she was good at parody or humor.
When I was in middle school Katy Perry had the streets on lock lol
The problem is that Katy is very obviously trying to make a comeback instead of just trying to focus on writing good, authentic pop tunes. She had the greatest peak of any modern pop artist, which has not been matched since and has only occurred once prior from MJ. This will never happen again. The kind of 2010s manufactured bubble gum pop doesn't work anymore and I understand her trying to tap into that due to being crucified for trying to change her image in 2017. The problem is that it didn't feel authentic then, and it feels even less authentic now. Seems to have surprisingly bad instincts.
of course shes trying to make a comeback. that's why people put out albums after a hiatus
fr i have yet to see an artist so chronically unable to read the trends.
It sucks because she's talented and she has guts, but the creativity and the taste level is not really there.
"Greatest pop star peak after MJ" see, I don't understand this. To me she has always been unbelievably mid. Her lyrics were always stupid as hell too... "do you ever feel like a plastic bag" no what the fuck are you talking about Katy...
"Authentic pop tunes"
I'm sorry but when has she ever had any "authentic" music to begin with? Her music always sounded very commerical and modernized to me, so am I missing something here? 😭
It’s hairdresser core 🤷🏼♂️
target core
this evoked an actual laugh out loud from me, thumbing up
Grocerycore
Teen Choice Awards core
Explains why the little bald men doesn't like it.
Todd in the Shadows’ Trainwreckords episode on her is absolutely fantastic and maybe the best of the whole series
i’m going to watch it rn
Agreed
his take on Mr Wendall is one of the most disgusting Ive ever heard in my life. Fvck that dude.
It's brilliant!
Wonder if he'll make a part 2 with this album. At the very least he's definitely gonna review woman's world at some point
As someone who grow up in the One Of The Boys and Teenage Dream era, i would never thought Katy would be flopping like she is now.
Katy’s Music was good FOR THE TIME. Pop has evolved so much since then & honestly if I was her I’d realise how the public has slowly started to accept my new sound and try to make that a little more palatable for the new album. This song was unbelievably bad…from the beat, to the lyrics, to the MV, to the fact she chose to have a “female anthem” be created by a literal alleged rapist?? I mean it couldn’t be worse if she tried.
My ex loved Katy Perry, and I think she actually blasted her music to annoy me. Let me tell ya, that shit worked, too. I can't even thinking of that time period without gritting my teeth.
KP had 6 extremely good years. That's still more than the majority of very popular female artists.
She had a solid three album run.
She’s in the good to great category but no where near the female GOATs
Rihanna had like 10 and that run only stopped because she quit music for a while
@@BrandonAyong Rihanna is the exception, not the rule. How many pop artists have remained relevant for over a decade?
@@thevinisodrake
I think Todd in the Shadows did a good job of looking into when he did a video about Witness. Prism wasn't a great album that coasted off of the success from Teenage Dream, but because it had two No. 1's (which were both pretty mid in Roar and Dark Horse) it was still seen as a success. Then, you had the utter mess that was Witness, a hodgepodge of ideas, themes and just bad songs.
I think the title track is actually pretty underrated, but the rest of the album is forgettable at best. We then get to Smile, which just kind of existed and still had the funk from Witness hanging over it.
It's been seven years since she had a top-10 single (Witness) and 11 since she had a No. 1 (how did we let Dark Horse get to No. 1, seriously?).
we love todd dont we folks
"Mid" is being pretty kind to Dark Horse. That song is worse than Thunder by Imagine Dragons...
I think the Witness song you're thinking of is Chained to the Rhythm. The title track didn't chart , but Chained made it to number four.
And despite its success and decent reception, it was never going to launch Katy Perry into a new age of success when the theme and message of the song is "My music is vapid and meaningless, but you still listen to it because the world is falling apart."
@@jackbotyt4602your comment in a trump voice made me laugh dude . Send me 5 dollars
Witness is her best album experience imo. I don’t understand the hate for it. It’s a fun and dark dance album. Have you even listened to it)
I'm not even mad at the melody of Woman's World. The tune to the chorus is quite nice, but jesus christ - Dr Luke? Hilary Clinton style feminism?? Beyond lazy verses??? Still trying to be "camp" and funny in her videos and failing horribly????? Does she even want to be a pop star anymore! Like it must be intentional to make this many bad decisions.
The stench of desperation is not easy to wash off, and that's all I've been getting from Katy Perry since Witness. Desperation and trend chasing. She just wants people to like her. She'll do whatever she needs to do, be whatever she needs to be, as long as it makes people like her again. It's sad, it's pathetic, but it's also kinda dark. Working with Dr. Luke just proves it; she doesn't actually believe in anything. All that girl power, positive life affirming stuff she sings about? It's bullshit. She doesn't care about it. She doesn't care about anything but success. And yet, she _still_ can't find it. Imagine selling your soul to the devil and not even getting anything cool in the trade. What a loser
"All that girl power, positive life affirming stuff she sings about? It's bullshit. She doesn't care about it. She doesn't care about anything but success"
To be fair, she's hardly alone among fake-woke celebrities in being guilty of that.
It really is a desperation thing - you can tell since witness she’s been trying to win back popular opinion and it’s just resulting with very drab, uninspired music.
She's a multimillionaire married to one of the sexiest man alive and has a beautiful daughter and is living her life in the finest places on earth. I think she's doing alright. Meanwhile you're typing this long ass hate comment calling her a loser. Ok.
@@polbzh found the katy kat!
I mean, I don't disagree that she has an amazing life. But her having an amazing life does not mean she's happy, or satisfied with how people see her. If she were, she would just retire instead of continuing to stain her legacy by making crap like this.
exactly. like sure, she has money and a perfect family, but she clearly looks desperate to reclaim her relevancy and almost monopoly of the top of the charts of her glorious days as a singer, alongside being loved by the general public again. hell, she even dyed her hair back to black bc according to her, "this is what her fans wanted". she's not living for herself, and it shows.
I legit thought the new songs were AI generated considering how satirical the songs and music videos feel... but no, no. Thats just what you sound like when you turn music into an assembly line
If I was her I’d honestly just disappear after this and just live a private life
She's too busy taking homes from the elderly to do that.
Hahaha she can't! No way she can support her her baby and Orlando for ever. He doesn't even act anymore so he's not bringing any bacon to the pan.😅
That's the exact same thing as what happened to Brandon Urie from Panic! At the Disco after the backlash of his last album, 'Viva Las Vengeance', he had to retire making music to take care of his family and private life around him.
She’s a narcissist so she NEEDS the attention.
@DefyReality-ll2cg what do you mean?
Todd was right in his Trainwreckords review. That was totally the end of Perry has a household name.
I think that it's Dr. Luke, not only his bad reputation. He's clearly not as good at making music as he used to be.
Yeah if you listen to the Kim Petras album, the whole thing feels like something isn’t quite clicking.
Maybe this will finally get him tossed out. Toxic people are tolerated so long as they make money. Once they can't, they're finished.
The general public has no idea who the hell dr luke is so this narative that yall have that people are avoiding her new projects because of him is so dumb
@@markoradivojevic4580 A lot of people around the world know about Dr Luke and what he's done.
His style is incredibly washed
You know it's bad for Katy when even her own fans have convinced themselves that Woman's World wasn't the lead single, and that Lifetimes is actually the lead. Just embarrassing!
The internet really seemed primed for her revival at the beginning of this year, people wanted that Teenage Dream sound that nobody else in pop is giving right now. I truly feel she should have returned to the sound of her scrapped 2004 album or One of the Boys - like Katy, pick up your guitar! She is at her best with that singer-songwriter, sort of Alanis Morrisette-esque sound. People may not think it, but she's actually had such an interesting career and time in the music industry, since she was 17. So many instances that I would rather hear her write and sing a song about, than Woman's World (and Lifetimes). Leaving your hometown and Christian faith for LA in the early 2000s. Having a record deal, recording an album, then having that scrapped and starting from square one. Having a few of those album tracks be used by other artists (eg Kelly Clarkson) for one of her biggest hits. Then finally having your big break in 2008, and being on top of the world for 6 years with back to back number 1s. Then trying to reinvent yourself and having a couple flop eras. Getting married and having a child, approaching 40 in the pop industry... All things that are so much more interesting and integral to Katy Perry than the absolute garbage and over-produced, over-contrived pop of Woman's World and Lifetimes.
So disappointing.
Surprise I have not seen this mention in the comments but THE reason for Perry’s early success was her working with Max Martin. He produced and wrote all of her biggest hits. Once they stopped working together, she fell off.
This has been documented pretty thoroughly by Todd in the shadows. His witness video is A tier
Some actual analysis, I’m sure.
Being a celebrity has got to be terrifying. People root for you to succeed and when you start succeeding they root for your failure. It’s gut wrenching to watch.
Think there’s way more nuance to it than that
Because you're new and people want the new all the time. Then when you settle in and you had a couple of years people are tired of you. Eminem said it best
"These hos don't want him no more he's cold product
They move on to the next "
Well, these people knew what they signed up for. Fame comes with decreased privacy, and increased scrutiny. Can't imagine why anyone would want to be famous, but each to their own.
Unless you are Taylor Swift or Eminem; who could simply fart and the entire pop world fall over themselves.
I could handle it, put me on the spot
I’m not really buying the reason the song didn’t do well is because she worked with Dr. Luke. The general public or an average radio listener doesn’t really follow every detail. I think people give stan twitter too much credit when in reality the music is just not connecting
Yup. stan twitter is just a small world despite they think they are
Yeah it’s her label that don’t some she music to radio or playlists
if anything it's the other way around. the song is so bad that people are actually paying more attention to her working with dr.luke
Not on twitter, so I haven’t seen what people are saying, but my impression is if your stans aren’t hyping up your music and blowing it up, it’s not going to trickle out to the GP who aren’t going to seek her out and anticipate what she has to offer. If her stans are put off by Dr Luke producing, they won’t push it, and the music isn’t strong enough for it to travel very far on its own. She’s pissed off the people she needed the most
Not going to give Twitter specifically (stan communities are also spread across Reddit, Tik Tok, RUclips, Discord, Facebook Groups, etc) much credit but I think a lot of mainstream success these days in downstream of various stan communities. Normie venues for promoting music like FM radio want to pick up stuff that has buzz online.
"The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long, and you have burned so very very brightly, Katie"
I've always been a firm believer that when artists start to have a good life that their music starts to drop off entirely. Now she's a mother and she's with the love of her life, the musical quality is a struggle.
She did her best music when she was with Russell Brand and she was unhappy. Prove me wrong
She's the main act at the upcoming 2024 AFL (Australian football) Grand Final - basically our little country's modest version of the Superbowl.
If that ain't a sign of falling off then I don't know what is.
What do you mean??? Kiss did it last year and they’re still cool!!!! They haven’t fallen off
@@stormblessed2673 wait it’s bad? I was looking at it as if it were a big deal.
supposedly 200k ppl watch that thing.
Yall couldn't get kylie minogue?!
@@rotorwash4731 Also, Robbie Williams did it the year before Kiss and he did great too
@@aquariussolaris2492 Apparently they wanted her last year, but she said no
“Slow Motion Immolation” should be a Black Midi albu- oh wait
TOO SOON!
:(
not funny man :/
I don't get it?
Bro THIS is how I find out? Damn i was really excited to see what they did after Hellfire.
The moment she dropped “Swish Swish” i knew it was done for her, she brought in this rap and EDM phase to herself that i didn’t really click with, Witness as a whole is an atrociously bad album and really is her version of “Revival”, i thought “One Of The Boys” and “Teenage Dream” were instant classics, Prism i thought was mediocre with 3-4 only good songs, and the rest of the catalog plummeted from there. I grew up listening to pop music and she was one of the main pop artists I listened to, now i don’t usually listen to pop and didn’t even know she dropped an album or a single.
And it’s not like I’m a hater of hers now or anything but it’s like, she’s been out of the picture when it comes to pop music for many years now, Now when I think of pop, I think of Taylor Swift or a more modern star like Billie or Doja Cat.
Gave it a listen, the best word I can describe it was "Shopping Mall Core", there is nothing inherently wrong with it, but its not very memorable in any particular way either. I'd be hearing music like this while I shopping and they will totally fly over my head the entire time. Also the lyrics are fitting, what can I say.
One of my most formative experiences with music as a kid was being exposed to pop music for the first time in 2010. Prior to that I was pretty sheltered when it came to pop culture, but hearing the work of artists like Rihanna, Katy Perry and ESPECIALLY Gaga and Ke$ha genuinely changed my life. I had never heard anything like it, and to this day I still love the music all of them made during that time, Teenage Dream had so many hits. To see that Katy has fallen off this hard while everyone else I mentioned has either kept dropping good music or are at least maintaining very respectable legacies… it’s really unfortunate.
Everyone else hasn't though. At least commercially, Kesha, Lady Gaga and Rihanna are not making hit songs or albums anymore either.
Pop stars just get older and lose relevance. They start working on other stuff (like TV shows or movies makeup brands), they want to raise families, or unfortunately many have personal or industry problems (like Kesha or Britney) that holds them down. Sure Katy Perry fell off but after about 10 or so years just about everyone does.
@@krombopulos_michaelRihanna has a respectable legacy and Kesha is still dropping music people seem to care about so… I don’t see your point. Like yeah they’re not as big as they once were but that’s normal, I’m not arguing they’re still ruling the charts. Think before you comment bruh.
As a straight white male prog rock fan in his 30s, I absolutely loved everything Katy Perry put out up till Prism. I even enjoyed Witness a decent amount. I was hoping this run would’ve brought something more exciting. Sad to see 😔
no one cares if youre a straight white male prog rock fan in his 30s
witness was, as todd in the shadows, a decent execution of a questionable concept. this on other hand feels like there's barely any concept and on top of it all executed horrifically.
No one asked bruh.
Todd in the Shadows did a great video going over her project Witness and how badly that wrecked her music career.
'Woman's world' at least had the good sense of being cringe. This has nothing.
Katy’s been flailing since Witness; her big push to try and be deeper failed massively; poptimism and “purposeful pop” are both basically gone, and all she has left based on how self conscious that album made her out to be; the only thing she has left to feel like she’s contributing something other than vapid easy listening music (she comes across as a person who does not want to be seen as being as shallow as her reputation suggests) is her surface level white feminism that carried her memorable big hit singles. “Women’s World” is the inevitable result of this trajectory.
At this point I wonder if Todd will have to put her on Trainwreckords twice
Katy Perry released an album in 2020? News to me
it speaks volumes that arguably only one song from it got some kind of internet clout (harleys in hawaii).
I didn't know either! Although I did know about her single "Never Really Over", which I thought was great but it was from 2019! Yikes! Time flies. 😬
Sometimes Todd in the shadows is Nostradamus but when it came to Katy Perry? The trainwreckords predicted this one.
Tbh Katy as a mainstream artists the music is alr, the promotion that her record is so bad, leaving only her fans to stream not much the gp.
I genuinely think both the record label and dr Luke are making it seem as if they fabricated the spiral of her fall out.
As a fan I am hoping she learns, and re directs to a more grounded feel because it’s what’s in atm with both Taylor and Billie leading.
Taylor is the Drake of pop girls. Her best days are behind her. Billie, Chappell, Charli, Olivia are the future and will be passing her soon.
nothing grounded about fucking taylor lmfao
@@StudioScarecrowr u talking commercial success or artistry? I don’t listen to all of those but I like their music and agree that they are the next generation of music,
although Charlie started her career in 2013 opening for Katy, her album seems to be doing really good tho
I think Sabrina is also becoming main pop girl
@@Kelexsis Taylor will probably keep selling super well forever because she has an insane cult but as far as artistry she’s done and I can’t see her relevancy going anywhere but down
@@StudioScarecrow If you think Taylor is fading anytime soon then you are delusional. The Swifties are massive in number (possibly the biggest fanbase in the world) and they worship her like a god. She'll be reining the Pop throne til she passes from old age. And even then she might continue to hold the throne.
Technically her fall off HAS BEEN STUDIED in TRAINWRECKORDS by Todd in the Shadow few years back.
Once you're in Trainwreckords you'll never climb up to your once prominent status again.
I would almost agree, but Metallica is still doing very well for themselves. Every album after St. Anger was definitely received well by fans.
@@ronarnold1507 nah, albums that came past St Anger does still have good promotional runs (thanks to the band’s fame) but I dont think post-st anger products are as popular as the previous albums that came before.
@@ronarnold1507 Yeah, Todd himself has even said he plays fast and loose with what makes it on, and St. Anger was more just the end of them being huge crossover stars and the ep was more for the notoriety of the album itself
katie had a whole las vegas preformance residency ... that should speak for itself
Vegas residencies are nursing homes for pop stars
@@TheAndyk123 maybe 20 years ago but not now. Gaga, Bruno, Adele, Cardi B, Britney have all done residencies. Young people go to Vegas too and don't want to see oldies.
She's trying to revive 2010s pop, but we've already moved on. She still has her old catalog and that's peak 2010s pop. At this point she gotta move on because she's getting left behind for good
We already left her behind when she released Smile!
Katy was never good to begin with. She does not have a particular talent and was a good popstar, not a singer, songwriter or dancer. She was really lucky to last that long.
She should embrace her prime and retire.
She actually began as a very talented gospel singer but then the industry did what the industry does
@@BrandonAyong, I know that, but that doesn’t prove she’s talented.
she had a good marketing team for awhile and even screwed that up
@@BrandonAyongare you talking about that Katy Hudson album? Because that shit was terrible lol
lolno
i don’t understand why he’s so suprised katy perry made a terrible song, she started her career with “ur so gay”
ur so gay is generational please
I mean, at least that song was like… funny? Attention grabbing? Worthy of being talked about?
Once the edginess was gone she became a carbon copy of herself
I kinda like that song actually.
And it was catchy and clever despite its name, so I can see why she rose to fame with that song
I remember some clip (I think it was Beyonce?) saying a lot of artists put out singles and don’t make albums anymore. I think this goes back to that. I don’t know a lot of people who listen to her albums but I know a lot of people who love her singles like California girls, teenage dream, etc.
Your RE20 sounds great! I might have to switch.
2010 was peak Katy Perry. So many white girl bops
It even influenced Rihanna around that time who switched from RnB and pop to Full Loud pop with songs that were very katy perryesque (, Only girl in the world. S&M ect )
Bro thinks he's Ryan gosling in Drive with that toothpick
Yeah but he's not wrong this time
the "hyperpop" make over article is dumb tho none of this is hyperpop.
Katy perry on hyperpop beats would have been so much more interesting
Everything has its time and everything dies.
Bro went through the 5 stages of grief listing to that 😭
You can’t criticize her for working with Dr. Luke if you’re not gonna bring that energy 10x for Kim Petras
This guy had a Dr Luke produced song near the top of his best songs list lol he's a hypocrite following trends as always
Yeah, the difference its that kim petras has alway been a background niche artist that nobady really care about.
She is awfull, but you can flop when you never really succeded.
AND the whole point of witness was rebranding herself as a social consicius liberated feminist; work with dr luke again its a hypocrite move, a suicide move.
add adam levine, nicki, doja, drake, kid laroi, ava max, juice wrld, etc. these double standards are insane, without mentioning dr luke is innocent, kesha lied and wanted katy to lie in court along with gaga but thats not sensational enough right?
@@ethan-sr6euhow could you possibly know that Dr luke is innocent were you in the room with them?
@@TheFreepieEasy, Kesha testified in court in 2011 that it never happened.
I honestly had no expectation that Katy could ‘save pop’ lol, for me Katy peaked/artistically years ago & just doesn’t have a great ear for music to make a huge comeback. I also think the creative uncertainty comes from when you’ve taken risks that haven’t commercially paid off, so you now rely on older formulas that may have worked on classic albums in your arsenal but defo not when today’s pop girl songwriters have changed the game.
We say she "saved" pop because she brought Dr. Luke back lol and this is an objective fact. She did save pop. I sure as hell know I'd rather listen to WW or P
Lifetimes over anything we call pop today like Charli xcx who isn't even a pop star or Sabrina Carpenter whose entire claim to fame is plagiarizing Dr. Luke's Say So.
She married Russell Brand, she doesn't make great choices
Wut?!?
Ok u'r right xd
Strange comment
I think a high percentage of the world doesn’t make good relationship decisions, that doesn’t at all correlate with her lack of ability to produce a hit.
Diddy sucked at relationships, as we all know now, but produced hits for a long time for himself and his artist’s, so good or bad relationships/marriages means jack shit to making hits. Also must of her heavy hits were from the year she was with Brand 😂.
Math ain’t mathing. Stay on topic. Katy Perry just sucks at making hit song (period).
😂😂😂
I didnt even realize she was still making music 💀
It was her 2017 album. That was such a bomb with the strange decisions she made with it, alongside lessening returns from Dark Horse finally kicking in, pretty much destroyed her momentum and ability to get hits. Everything after has been a desperate attempt to regain old fame to no results.
I think Todd in the Shadows' observation that some pop stars can only be that with hits was spot on. She lost ability to make hits once the momentum was interrupted.
todd is a little too good with his predictions lol. but it's true: for example, i barely know any katy kats on the internet or in real life, but in my college campus alone i can shake a tree and a bunch of swifties would fall down.
Shoppingmallcore.
1:49 "Kesher"
Kesher? I hardly know 'er!
Kesher in the Rye
Kesher
linking/intrusive r
@@aurablue368 I have linking R myself, that's not linking R. The next word, herself, doesn't start with a vowel
The problem is that it’s just so basic, it sounds like music from 10 years ago
@0:23 Tony forgot what decade it is
I feel like she did the Superbowl Halftime Show, said to herself "well, it's not gonna get better than this" and then worked hard to fullfill that prophecy.
wow a pop star was only relevant for a few years? water is wet
Loled
I still bump Dark Horse
Nice
You alone.
Me too
NGL that song was ruined for me with that horrible early tiktok fad
Oh man you should switch to the Chinese shit it's way better
I don't know about y'all but personally I thought she was already has been by the time I saw that music video she did with migos that was her downfall to me. Like i remember being a kid and hearing her hits then becoming a teenager, and hearing her for the first time since and she was tryna fit in with the hip hop artists that everyone was listening to + her cringe personality equal it was over then. It was a 3-year hiatus, but it feels like a lifetime for the people that aren't stans but the general public.
1:12 "commercially and artistically" Anthony's inner Patrick Bateman coming to surface.
Lifetimes is wildly better, but its very safe. And the truth is probably most of it was done by 1 person, but you don't get a song released by a popstar usually without a lot of people digging their claws into the writers share. Songwriters don't have the leverage to say no.
Do you think Todd in the Shadows would do two Trainrecords for one artist?
I most certainly hope so!!
I think he will cover 143 eventually lol
That's what todd in the shadows did with his witness video
Happened after she got that lesbian haircut years ago and the public didn’t like it
The Melon face transitioning into worry during the listening section was extremely telling.
.
.
Katy Perry threatens to drop music
"Don't threaten us with a good time"
I never thought Fantano and Todd would've videos about Katy Perry's downfall but here we are