The combination of the Pilot's not doing enough to warn air traffic controllers of the grave danger they were in and too many switches on air traffic controllers caused a break down of communications. Bad weather, poor decisions by the pilots and the controllers
Gravity? ... Sorry. This one's on ATC. Blaming the pilots for remaining professional and not screaming is bullshit and I refuse to entertain such an idea.
Legally, all planes have to have enough fuel to fly to their destination, conduct and approach, conduct a missed approach, climb to altitude and fly to their alternate, conduct and approach at their alternate, conduct a missed approach and then fly for an additional 45 minutes. The crew of Avianca 052 allowed themselves to be held for so long that they only had enough fuel to conduct an approach at their destination and not enough for a missed approach. I would mainly blame the pilots as they should have diverted to Boston after it was announced that it was indefinite holding at JFK, they should have clearly told the controllers how serious their low fuel state was and denied any instructions after they went missed except to fly towards the Outer-Marker and shoot the approach again. The controllers also bear responsibility here as the New York Center controller did not pass on that Avianca 52 was low on fuel, the New York Tower controller should have inquired how low their fuel and directed them straight to the Outer-marker for another approach instead of saying "Okay" and passing them onto New York Approach Control, lastly, the Managers should have lowered the amount of aircraft landing at JFK when it was announced by the JFK controllers that they couldn't meet the 33 aircraft an hour landing rate. Finally, the South American airline system also bears responsibility because at that time it was quite common for a Captain to fail their English proficiency exam but be allowed to fly to an English speaking place if the Captain was a highly experienced pilot and the co-pilot was fluent in English. Today, being proficient in English is a mandatory requirement.
For anyone who's wondering why the captain keeps asking the first officer what he said to ATC: the actual intra-cockpit communications were in Spanish (the native language of the entire flightcrew), which the episode translates for our convenience. Only the first officer's communications with ATC were actually in English.
I think the real blame should have been on the pencil neck who told the flight controllers they had to accept that many landings in such terrible conditions. It seems clear to me that that is where the trouble started. He is a classic example of a bad boss. When told by his subordinates that they lack the resources to execute his commands, he just doubles down on them.
The planes were already in the air, if they had denied the landings it would have just put more planes in holding patterns and it wouldn't have made a difference. They could have all been sent to alternates, but that would put more pressure on the other airports because now they are the ones that have to handle 33 aircraft. You can see how this situation is the same thing, now the "pencil neck" for boston has to call up their controllers and say that they have to land 40 aircraft per hour. If they can't do it either then you're just overloading even more airports.
"Engine flame-out" means EMERGENCY in any language, but by then it was too late. I do think the ATCs got away with some very serious mistakes. For myself, if a flight crew tells me they're running out of fuel and need to land immediately, I don't care if my shift is almost over -- I make sure they get on the ground. I was just stunned at these nonchalant handoffs.
"Avianca 52 is declaring an EMERGENCY!" No "we're running out of fuel", no "please", no "thank you", no "we need priority", ... First Officer never declared an emergency despite the Captain told him 3 times to do so. Flight Engineer never stated that they have only one chance to land due to low fuel. Captain not speaking English and not being able to take over the communication with ATC is a strong contributing factor. ATC overwhelmed with the traffic situation and failing to ask - "are you declaring an emergency"?
Maybe those "angry passengers" stuck in the airport should thank their lucky stars next time they are delayed. I try to think back on these stories whenever my patience runs thin. Could always be worse.
34:37 I’ve seen well over 100 episodes of Mayday! / Aircrash Investigation over the years, and this simple scene of the 707 dropping out of the clouds like a ghost is one my favorite scenes from the whole series. It’s just so eerie.
You know I have flown into JFK many times after this incident. I hope they had their act together. DISGRACEFUL and DANGEROUS FYI NYC people our basically a holes with attitudes in my opinion
@@fhuber7507 Which goes to show you the absolutely crucial importance of standardized language in aviation. “Priority” is not “Emergency”. Did the F/O even know the difference? We will never know.
@George and Ruth Mallory. But the first officer say we ran out of fuel. Atc: just pass on to next controller and the Messages lost a long the way. Even after the first officer say we have 5 minutes of fuel left and we need a priority landing.
@@jamesm3471 Indeed, the major cause of this accident was F/O and his lack of proper vocabulary. He should have used strong words, such as "emergency", "mayday" or at least "pan pan pan", instead of trying to describe a situation. Simply saying "we're running out of fuel" sounds like there's 10% fuel left, whereas saying "we have an emergency, we're running out of fuel" sounds like there's less than 1% fuel left. Vocabulary matters a lot.
I mean FAA doesn’t do investigations the NTSB do and FAA neglected the information that was being sent from NSTB and the part is that “ They were out of fuel “ and “ Did not use the proper aviation language “. Why do you have to say that the company who operated that airline whoever taped up the data recorder should be removed and ATC “ never realize they were out of fuel “ and “ Poor management from the district “.
The blame is everyone involved the ATC, DC ATC Management, the pilots ( Never asked for weather at the beginning and never diverted ), the FAA ( never blamed the ATC when given the evidence from NTSB that “ The flight was out of fuel “.
The pilots would do it from the start, they didn’t ask for weather ( with that amount of fuel there is no way they could even land it was not possible. ). The pilot should have considered the alternative option to Boston during Hold and proceeded with that option which could save thousands of lives.
Actually the FAA is an arm of the Federal Government which is in the business of staying in power. They are being pushed by the lobby of the airlines to keep traffic moving. It is not the responsibility of our government to coddle every international crew that can't "read and understand english" ; something required EVERYWHERE in the world in order to fly outside of your third world country. These Pilots needed to divert, or say this ONE English word "EMERGENCY" or face the consequences of a fatal accident. If you can't handle the outcome of your decisions. then it should be clear, a flying career is not for you.
To me, this is the most devastating to watch. The communication by the copilot was insufficient but I think the ATC made a crime by passing on the aircraft that says we have 5 minutes of fuel left, to the next person!
5 mins fuel left can mean a lot of things: 5 mins to reserve fuel, 5 mins to fuel enough to divert, 5 mins to real empty tank, maybe more. Admiral Cloudberg wrote an excellent article on this and explained that.
@@meowmeowcat6013 I think if I was ATC I would take it as "5 more minutes of holding before we are forced to divert in order to maintain appropriate fuel at landing".
if you think about how the crew worded it, its not hard at all to see why a controller would not think they mean 5 minutes of fuel remaining period but rather 5 minutes of fuel left for holding.
Many failures led to this, but the biggest remains the captain's decision to fly until he had no fuel. Him and his crew were timid and indecisive. He had had a decision point early on in which he could have flown to alternate airport and didn't make that call. Then he had a decision point to declare Mayday when his fuel level was getting low risking his ability of executing a missed approach. It's insane that they were discussing how they will handle the missed approach with gentle nose up, which means they realize they are dangerously low on fuel, yet they didn't declare Mayday to get the full attention and priority landing from ATC.
It's absurd the level to which ATC is ignoring the communications from the plane. During one of the hand-offs, the controller asks his fellow controller "Can you take him, or should I send him to his alternate"... when in the last interaction with the plane, they indicated they could no longer reach their alternate.
When this crew realizes that they only have one chance to land, their approach is already far beyond urgent and is clearly an emergency. Declaring an emergency gives them access to the entire airport, which is what they need for their desperate situation, but they never succinctly communicate this. It's very unfortunate how everybody on board suffers in the outcome.
This episode gave me horrible anxiety. I kept yelling at them tell them it's an emergency!!!! You have no gas. I had to keep fast forwarding, very hard to watch.
Man I remember this happening and how bad it was here in Newark that day. A lot of these flights should never have been allowed to take off towards this area or have should have been directed towards they're alternate before even going into the first holding pattern. But the pilots should have been more direct with they're situation too. But sadly the bottom line is the bottom line. Very poor airport management. So sad yet so unavoidable
Blame it on ATC, seems to be the battle cry. That poor Spanish Crew, how were they to know? Well they knew enough to fly an American Aircraft, why not learn American procedures and the language while your at it?
So if your right, then why has there never been a passenger plane crash in Newark? Save your bullshit. Sounds like your house is in the flight path. Deal with it or move.
Reading these accidents / incidents on wikipedia and other aviation-related websites vs. watching the documentaries of these, are so different. It is way more brutal to watch them reenacted than to read cold, factual words.
I felt like the first officer was a good worker who stepped up and did his best and SHOCKED the controllers were not receiving ANY part of the blame whatsoever
It is very intriguing that you put this episode right after the mid air collision one. Even more upset to see Nielsen being killed while someone else can just walk away. This episode ends on a high with a key note from the survivor. You certainly know who to blame.
I would say that as an English speaker, there is a subtle difference between “priority” and “emergency.” Priority means I need to go first or there WILL be trouble; emergency means there is ALREADY trouble. It is also interesting in this recreation that the pilot repeatedly says “emergency” in talking to the first officer (which I assume is the translation from the cockpit recorder) but the first officer never uses that word to ATC. That being said, there were definitely other clues and key words that should have made the ATCs take notice. Especially glaring is that the fact that they could not make Boston was not communicated from one ATC to another, even after one specific talks about their alternate airport, he isn’t corrected. The wiki says the one ATC didn’t hear them say they couldn’t make Boston, but I am going to guess it was on the CVR, so it was said, meaning there was a break down in ATCs attention. How you know this and still find ATC blameless is beyond me. Also I am not clear on how communicating they would only have one shot at landing would have helped anything with the actual landing (though it may have made ATC snap to). It sounds like the other runways were closed, and there was nothing ATC could do to fix visibility or wind sheer. I think they were screwed once they no longer had the fuel to get to Boston honestly.
What an unnerving episode. Between the gentlemans description of the wind hitting the plane once the engines died to the scene of it silently falling this is one hard hitting episode.
I know everyone has a feeling about this and the blame is enough to go around. But I think if I were the pilot and when it came to the place I only had one hour of fuel left with almost 200 souls in my hands I would have been crying out as loud as I could. All controllers would had know I AM RUNNING OUT OF FUEL. Get me on the ground now.
But they never efficiently communicated that though, which is the sad part, they allowed controllers to put them in a hold position which, if I were the controller, wouldn’t think it was that urgent of an emergency
This is very sad I remember when this flight fell out of the sky living in Long Island New York. It was a devastating evening it was very cold and very wet. Unfortunately this plate never had a chance. They're telling them that running out of fuel, that telling the peoples that the engines are shutting down. And it's still telling them to the fur around the airport they needed emergency landing. Unfortunately they landed in Commack New York. Right on the outskirts of Long Island. Right by the ocean. It's very sad that many people died but they are some survivors many were children.
I feel so much for every single person on this plane. I remember the nightmare of circling, circling, circling for over an hour over Philadelphia or New York almost every time we came back from visiting grandparents for Christmas. Planes were still smoking in those days, and you felt so helpless and trapped and miserable. On top of the tragedy, think how many centuries' jet fuel was wasted by dozens or even hundreds of planes circling for 2-3 hours every day.
I am a pilot and I am amazed how in the past airlines allow their captains with zero english level to flight into complex international airports. even the copilot level was so poor. that was timing bomb and many more happen because of language barrier. Today all pilots needs at least IACO Level 4 ESL English on their licence to flight outside their country borders. all aviation regulations are wrtitten in blood and this is why is so important for pilots and operators to follow these rules.
Incompetent co-pilot. You have almost no fuel and you sit there waiting, barely communicating this extreme emergency with the ATC controller. Absolutely avoidable.
18:00 - Why are the controllers having all those flights hold at lower altitudes, rather than putting the holding patterns at or near cruising altitude where they'll burn less fuel and be able to safely hold for longer?
Seems to me that everyone who is passing judgement here is ignoring that this happened in 1990. A lot of accidents occured that made today's flights safer than this one...
Unbelievable that this occurred, soooooooo many unnecessary human errors, some bordered on complete and utter idiocy …… compounded by cockpit frustrations the captain had. Also, a total lack of authority on behalf of the co-pilot, to communicate the dire situation at hand with controllers!? The auto-pilot being none operational gave this flight a problem that sealed it’s fate…..RIP to those who past due to a series of avoidable instances. Sad.
Sad and very preventable the flight crew should have made the standard PAN PAN radio call early on followed by a Mayday when things got worse. Using standard terms makes it much easier for all to understand the situation at hand.
Whenever airline companies put the numbers and dollars ahead of crew and passenger safety, this terrible tragedy is what you get. When will they learn??? I think never.
You can't expect companies to learn this when regular people don't even check their regular vehicles before driving off because they think its a waste of time and effort.
Emergency Emergency!!! We are out of fuel!!!!! What was so difficult about reporting that over and over!?!? Why?? Especially when the controller after the missed approach send them way out by the outer marker again, although by that time I think it was too late either way.
One word: Translation. Words hold slightly different meanings in different languages and learning another one is difficult the first few times. They also cannot fill the air over the radio constantly due to heterodynes. I would expect that if a plane says they are running out of fuel every single time they radio in for over 30 minutes that this would indicate that they are going to make a landing sooner or later to controllers, but the hand offs were a complete mess. I don't think the pilots really are to blame here. It's the person in Washington D.C. that forced 33 landings an hour regardless of safety or conditions who allowed and actively encouraged for this situation to transpire. I'd place almost all the blame on his head as that is reckless negligence for the lives of passengers with all the information he had at the time.
The only issue is that to fly a plane, you are expected to know the international language of aviation, which happens to be English. Not knowing it is a failure in part of your job as a pilot. Effective communication is a massive part of crew resource management, which these pilots utterly failed at. You should know how to properly communicate before taking to the skies. Clear communication is the responsibility of the sender, not the receiver. While in a normal job, these person's may not be liable, that changes when you take control of a commercial aircraft, just like it does when you carry a police badge. If you can't clearly and concisely communicate in the international language of aviation, you have no business being behind the controls of an aircraft
@@annihilator247x Translation doesn't hold up here. like Alden said. There's a specific language to use with specific terminology for international flight. The pilots failed in their communication.
@@annihilator247x what are you talking about? The word emergency must be used period. It is protocol, and you have this word pounded into your head when becoming a pilot. Noting to do with translation. The moment tm you say emergency. You get ATCs undivided attention. They clear all traffic and give you any runway you want, as soon as you want it. There is no debate here, you MUST say "declaring an emergency". Every word spoken between ATC and pilots is standardized. Every word. A lesser emergency is called a Pan Pan, the pilots didn't even declare a pan pan, and even that would have been sufficient.
For reference, the current standards for minimum reserve fuel are 30 minutes hold [1500'] at the planned alternate aerodrome. This would mean that, assuming your alternate was 30 minutes away from you, diversion should mandatorily occur at 60 minutes fuel remaining, if it is assumed you would breach your minimum reserve awaiting landing clearance at your primary [first choice] airport.
I know this is a hot topic for debate and before anyone says anything, yes, ATC probably should have asked "are you declaring an emergency" - HOWEVER, aviation has standardized language for a reason. Non-standardized language contributed to the single worst aviation disaster in history. This was a failure on the part of the pilots due to complete CRM breakdown. They were yelling at each other about declaring an emergency and never actually did it. Priority? It's New York in bad weather, EVERYONE wants priority, that tells ATC nothing. Low on fuel? Again, it's New York in bad weather. Everyone is low on fuel. Everyone is stressed. They didn't make it clear that this wasn't a want, but a need. My sincerest condolences to the passengers for the absolute horror they went through but this was almost entirely the fault of the pilots, not ATC - again, the most ATC could have done was ask "are you declaring an emergency"
The word priority is not a negative word but the word emergency is. The pilots should have chosen correct words to effectively describe their situation. Emergency has far more weight
Transponders should include fuel level along with speed and altitude. Its a few bytes of data extra that can immediately convey an emergency situation.
This is one of those disasters that make you angry. The lack of assertiveness in making a swift position with ATC requesting immediate landing or diverting to alternate. They should have never flown hold pattern past the point where their fuel isn't sufficient to go to alternative airport.
It is indeed necessary to declare an emergency, you notice they have no pilots or investigators on here saying "there was no need to declare an emergency, the controllers should have known", but the truth is they didn't know until they declared engine flameouts
Majorly ATC partly Pilot. These Pilots were stressed and tired. If you listened carefully, the Autopilot was inoperable throughout the flight. That 4hrs+ of manual flying not to add holding delays and the stress that comes with it.
Not my responsibility as ATC to understand if you are "curt" ; it is yours, as a Pilot to tell me just how serious your situation is. EMERGENCY.. is the word you are searching for.
Watching this video was so stressful I had to keep pausing and walking away to calm down. It all came down to the flight crew's failures of protocol, communication, and training. The controllers cannot fly your plane for you, and they cannot read your instruments for you. You are responsible for the safety of your plane. If you have a problem, it is your responsibility to tell them. Say the magic words "pan-pan" or "emergency" and you'll get all the special help and attention you need, but it's the flight crew's responsibility to know when to say the magic words. (Side note: "but they said they were low on fuel" "but they said they wanted priority" Talking about fuel and wanting higher priority are VERY common topics of conversation between pilots and ATC. Everyone's impatient and wants priority. Everyone's worried about running out of fuel. That's why there are standardized override words for when there's a really serious no-BS problem. Those override words (pan-pan and emergency) don't come up in standard conversation, so they throw up huge red flags and get pilots the help they need right away. If you don't use the magic words, you're just having a normal conversation.) The captain didn't understand English well enough to understand the first officer's conversation with ATC. That's understandable: the English language sucks in like eighteen different ways. Unfortunately, English is the international standard language for aviation, and understanding it is a job requirement for a commercial pilot. The captain was not qualified to be a commercial airline pilot. The first officer was scared of the controllers and wasn't properly trained in aviation communication, so he let them walk all over him and failed to communicate critical life-or-death information. Communication was his job (the captain was flying the plane) and he didn't do it. The first officer was not qualified to be a commercial airline pilot. Any flight crew has three priorities: Aviate (fly the plane safely), Navigate (in the right direction), and Communicate (and tell people what you're doing and what you need). These guys failed at all three. They didn't land the plane when they needed to. They didn't divert when they needed to. They didn't tell anyone they were in distress. As a result, lots of people died.
I don’t know if you worked for ATC or what, but this was 31 years ago. So for the last 30 years I’m sure procedures are set up a lot better. And they are a lot more clarified on the right word to use. The flight crew undoubtedly messed up and needed to do more. There’s several places they messed up. But based on this video as seems clear to me that ATC wasn’t going to lift a metaphorical finger to communicate the importance of them running out of fuel. If the pilots didn’t use the “abracadabra” magic word then ATC was just going to pass them on and on to other people. The one controller knew that the pilot said they only had enough fuel to continue in a holding pattern for the next five minutes.
At the time if a Spanish speaking Captain failed their English proficiency exam it wasn't a big deal as long as the Captain could operate the aircraft and the co-pilot knew English, but today all active-duty crewmembers must be fluent in English.
Agreed. When you try to land more planes than is possible you’re gonna have planes in the sky for longer and longer as the day goes on and the pressure and workload is gonna go up more and more.
@@johnevans7006 Don´t think its that clear cut. It was a combination of factors. It was complicated by the fact, that the crew did not know they would be put in holding patterns for as long as they were. The crew is definitely responsible for not having declared an emergency though.
@@Romans8-9 in the end, it's the captain's responsibility to take the necessary steps to keep his passengers safe. He should have made the call to divert and/or used the proper terminology by DECLARING AN EMERGENCY, not asking for priority. Failed as a leader.
When I hear word priority if there are 100 planes I’m thinking of its on my list to get done soon maybe 1 of the next 10, totally different than emergency. So insane wow
3:30 - Why are the New York Center controllers allowing the Washington Center controllers to dictate how many flights they'll take? It's not as if the Washington controllers can do much of anything if the New York controllers simply refuse to clear that many flights into their airspace...
So much blame to go around in these comments but almost nobody is stating the obvious: If the captain had heeded the glideslope warnings from not only his plane, but his FO, and not had to go around, this entire accident could've been avoided. Yes, there was no reason for so many planes to be holding around one airport, but when he failed to land when given initial clearance, he doomed that flight. So sad.
Yes, I do think the ATC s along that last. bit of the flight failed, although the F/O should have been more forceful in telling them no, they could not do another holding pattern. Well, a perhaps avoidable tragedy. And once again, airline companies pushing for flights to keep coming in to airports in very bad weather. Greed. Lives lost. So sad.
I can see where there's blame to share here, especially when the one controller didn't tell the next one about the plane only having five minutes of fuel left. A big chunk of the blame belongs to the higher-ups in DC for insisting on such unreasonable and unsafe landing rates. At the same time, I find the most fault with the crew for their poor communication with ATC. Like it or not, English is the language of international aviation, and they didn't use it effectively. In English, there's a difference between "we need PRIORITY" and "we're in an EMERGENCY," and there's an even bigger difference between "we're RUNNING OUT of fuel" and "we're OUT of fuel." If you don't use the right words to tell ATC what you need, how can you expect them to give it to you?
If the ATC controller didn’t understand how urgent it was when the pilot said they only had enough fuel for five more minutes in a holding pattern, I don’t know what to tell you.
The international language of aviation is English, communication is a massive part of being a pilot. We don't allow deaf people to fly commercial jets, because they can't properly communicate. Not being able to communicate should disbar you from ever being behind the controls of a commercial airliner until you can effectively demonstrate that you can meet the requirements of the job fully and without hesitation or confusion
@@iMatti00 for all the ATC controller knew, "5 mins" could mean 5 mins until they hit their divert-to-alternate fuel limit, or even 5 mins until they hit their 30 min emergency reserve fuel. To ATC it would be inconceivable that a pilot would allow themselves to get UNDER their emergency fuel reserve without saying 'emergency', 'pan-pan' or 'mayday'. In English 'priority' absolutely does not mean emergency. A person can have many priorities - it does not signify they must be dealt with before every other aircraft in the air. In contrast, 'emergency' clearly signals they must be dealt with first and immediately. This is why 'emergency', 'pan-pan' and 'mayday' are the internationally recognised terms for a dangerous situation in the air. It is almost inconceivable that pilots flying into an English speaking airport would not have been taught this. While I feel ATC has a small amount of culpability, I am absolutely stunned that the pilots did not utter any of those words even once. Personally I would have been screaming them at the top of my lungs from the moment I hit my 30 min reserve fuel until I was on the ground. (Possibly even earlier given the bad weather.) It's a depressing thought that every life would have been saved if the pilots had uttered a single one of those words.
@@iMatti00 Never assume anything. If the ATC didn't seem to understand, it's the pilot's responsibility for CLEARLY and CONCISELY communicating their situation. They did not. There' specific terminology to use while flying and they did not use it. "Declare an emergency". Not "ask for priority"...
Management more concerned with profit than passenger and crew safety should be held accountable. You cannot apply arbitrary KPIs when weather and physics rule.
33:06 bruh the engines are stopping because of fuel but they were too lazy to make the arrow actually be at 0, it still displays like 10,000 lbs of fuel remaining, great video nonetheless
No kidding, it's called "declaring an emergency", not fucking "requesting priority". Being a pilot require precision, especially in communication. While ATC didn't help the situation, the lawyer is being an obvious sleezeball capitalist attorney by trying to shift blame away from the only people with the power to have prevented it
"Funny" that I have no experience in aviation whatsoever, but just by watching these episodes I was asking constantly why they were not declaring emergency, and I really cursed on them when they accepted the added 16 miles diversion after the first missed landing attempt. It seems to me that a series of poor decisions of the pilots caused the crash, starting from not checking the weather.
@@themalacast you are obviously far over simplifying ideological lines, I didn't whatsoever imply that communism was any more "honest", just that capitalism promotes fudging the truth to benefit yourself economically, just like that lawyer. Please actually read, digest, think, and analyze before commenting something so simple minded. Should you not be able to achieve all of the above, please refrain from saying anything at all
@@Vespyr_ "asking for priority".... That means literally nothing in aviation. Declare and emergency and take command. He was a captain and didn't act like it.
@@Blackwind_Legacy This was a systemic issue. You just basically said all foreign pilots don't act like Captain's. Priority does mean something in Aviation. Aviation isn't just your hemisphere. Your cliche, American ignorance and sheer lack of empathy cost real lives.
JFK should have been sending as many planes to their alternate as possible. That would free things up for all of the missed approaches. But that would have meant less money for all parties? So why do that?
Its bcz, The black boxes which were designed initially (1950's)were actually black in color, now for easier , and for quicker visibility they are painted in orange color .
What do you think caused the crash?
The combination of the Pilot's not doing enough to warn air traffic controllers of the grave danger they were in and too many switches on air traffic controllers caused a break down of communications.
Bad weather, poor decisions by the pilots and the controllers
They should have declared a state of emergency a little earlier, especially during bad weather....😥
Gravity?
... Sorry. This one's on ATC. Blaming the pilots for remaining professional and not screaming is bullshit and I refuse to entertain such an idea.
so timid to ask for a priority landing I guess?
'Pan pan pan' was not implimented at this era I assume.
Legally, all planes have to have enough fuel to fly to their destination, conduct and approach, conduct a missed approach, climb to altitude and fly to their alternate, conduct and approach at their alternate, conduct a missed approach and then fly for an additional 45 minutes. The crew of Avianca 052 allowed themselves to be held for so long that they only had enough fuel to conduct an approach at their destination and not enough for a missed approach.
I would mainly blame the pilots as they should have diverted to Boston after it was announced that it was indefinite holding at JFK, they should have clearly told the controllers how serious their low fuel state was and denied any instructions after they went missed except to fly towards the Outer-Marker and shoot the approach again.
The controllers also bear responsibility here as the New York Center controller did not pass on that Avianca 52 was low on fuel, the New York Tower controller should have inquired how low their fuel and directed them straight to the Outer-marker for another approach instead of saying "Okay" and passing them onto New York Approach Control, lastly, the Managers should have lowered the amount of aircraft landing at JFK when it was announced by the JFK controllers that they couldn't meet the 33 aircraft an hour landing rate.
Finally, the South American airline system also bears responsibility because at that time it was quite common for a Captain to fail their English proficiency exam but be allowed to fly to an English speaking place if the Captain was a highly experienced pilot and the co-pilot was fluent in English. Today, being proficient in English is a mandatory requirement.
For anyone who's wondering why the captain keeps asking the first officer what he said to ATC: the actual intra-cockpit communications were in Spanish (the native language of the entire flightcrew), which the episode translates for our convenience. Only the first officer's communications with ATC were actually in English.
Thank you for clearing this up, I kept wondering why he was asking what his first officer was saying.
Didn't they say this in the episode?
Nope, only the "Poor English" part.@@leafbelly
I think the real blame should have been on the pencil neck who told the flight controllers they had to accept that many landings in such terrible conditions. It seems clear to me that that is where the trouble started.
He is a classic example of a bad boss. When told by his subordinates that they lack the resources to execute his commands, he just doubles down on them.
That is true. Another day, another way to cut corners. 😡
The planes were already in the air, if they had denied the landings it would have just put more planes in holding patterns and it wouldn't have made a difference. They could have all been sent to alternates, but that would put more pressure on the other airports because now they are the ones that have to handle 33 aircraft. You can see how this situation is the same thing, now the "pencil neck" for boston has to call up their controllers and say that they have to land 40 aircraft per hour. If they can't do it either then you're just overloading even more airports.
@@pwhnckexstflajizdryvombqug9042 There is such a thing as an 'Alternate Airport' you know?
34:36 this is honestly the most chilling CGI recreation i've ever seen
Imagine camping there and seeing that
@@michaelselz3389 …but on the bright side, your constipation would be immediately cured.
It was pretty awesome. But they should have showed it from the side angle,and recreated the break up of the fuselage!
@@Maven0666 it would've probably not looked that good, considering this was season 1 iirc
"Engine flame-out" means EMERGENCY in any language, but by then it was too late. I do think the ATCs got away with some very serious mistakes. For myself, if a flight crew tells me they're running out of fuel and need to land immediately, I don't care if my shift is almost over -- I make sure they get on the ground. I was just stunned at these nonchalant handoffs.
Are you an air traffic controller?
"Avianca 52 is declaring an EMERGENCY!"
No "we're running out of fuel", no "please", no "thank you", no "we need priority", ...
First Officer never declared an emergency despite the Captain told him 3 times to do so.
Flight Engineer never stated that they have only one chance to land due to low fuel.
Captain not speaking English and not being able to take over the communication with ATC is a strong contributing factor.
ATC overwhelmed with the traffic situation and failing to ask - "are you declaring an emergency"?
Maybe those "angry passengers" stuck in the airport should thank their lucky stars next time they are delayed.
I try to think back on these stories whenever my patience runs thin. Could always be worse.
angry passengers generally lack any knowledge of aviation
34:37 I’ve seen well over 100 episodes of Mayday! / Aircrash Investigation over the years, and this simple scene of the 707 dropping out of the clouds like a ghost is one my favorite scenes from the whole series. It’s just so eerie.
You know I have flown into JFK many times after this incident. I hope they had their act together. DISGRACEFUL and DANGEROUS FYI NYC people our basically a holes with attitudes in my opinion
@@robertcunningham5043 maybe you get what you put out energy wise
"Meet our quota regardless of safety"
There's the cause.
Co-pilot bears most of the direct responsibility.
Pilot told him multiple times to declare an emergency and he never declared.
@@fhuber7507 Which goes to show you the absolutely crucial importance of standardized language in aviation. “Priority” is not “Emergency”. Did the F/O even know the difference? We will never know.
@George and Ruth Mallory. But the first officer say we ran out of fuel.
Atc: just pass on to next controller and the Messages lost a long the way. Even after the first officer say we have 5 minutes of fuel left and we need a priority landing.
When it comes down to it. That plane never should be in the air to begin with.
@@jamesm3471 Indeed, the major cause of this accident was F/O and his lack of proper vocabulary. He should have used strong words, such as "emergency", "mayday" or at least "pan pan pan", instead of trying to describe a situation. Simply saying "we're running out of fuel" sounds like there's 10% fuel left, whereas saying "we have an emergency, we're running out of fuel" sounds like there's less than 1% fuel left. Vocabulary matters a lot.
This video, and crash, are a great reminder that the FAA is a business, and will do everything in its power to make sure it isn't responsible.
I mean FAA doesn’t do investigations the NTSB do and FAA neglected the information that was being sent from NSTB and the part is that “ They were out of fuel “ and “ Did not use the proper aviation language “.
Why do you have to say that the company who operated that airline whoever taped up the data recorder should be removed and ATC “ never realize they were out of fuel “ and “ Poor management from the district “.
The blame is everyone involved the ATC, DC ATC Management, the pilots ( Never asked for weather at the beginning and never diverted ), the FAA ( never blamed the ATC when given the evidence from NTSB that “ The flight was out of fuel “.
The pilots would do it from the start, they didn’t ask for weather ( with that amount of fuel there is no way they could even land it was not possible. ).
The pilot should have considered the alternative option to Boston during Hold and proceeded with that option which could save thousands of lives.
Actually the FAA is an arm of the Federal Government which is in the business of staying in power. They are being pushed by the lobby of the airlines to keep traffic moving. It is not the responsibility of our government to coddle every international crew that can't "read and understand english" ; something required EVERYWHERE in the world in order to fly outside of your third world country. These Pilots needed to divert, or say this ONE English word "EMERGENCY" or face the consequences of a fatal accident. If you can't handle the outcome of your decisions. then it should be clear, a flying career is not for you.
Just like the cdc and fda
To me, this is the most devastating to watch. The communication by the copilot was insufficient but I think the ATC made a crime by passing on the aircraft that says we have 5 minutes of fuel left, to the next person!
5 mins fuel left can mean a lot of things: 5 mins to reserve fuel, 5 mins to fuel enough to divert, 5 mins to real empty tank, maybe more. Admiral Cloudberg wrote an excellent article on this and explained that.
@@meowmeowcat6013 I think if I was ATC I would take it as "5 more minutes of holding before we are forced to divert in order to maintain appropriate fuel at landing".
if you think about how the crew worded it, its not hard at all to see why a controller would not think they mean 5 minutes of fuel remaining period but rather 5 minutes of fuel left for holding.
Many failures led to this, but the biggest remains the captain's decision to fly until he had no fuel. Him and his crew were timid and indecisive. He had had a decision point early on in which he could have flown to alternate airport and didn't make that call. Then he had a decision point to declare Mayday when his fuel level was getting low risking his ability of executing a missed approach. It's insane that they were discussing how they will handle the missed approach with gentle nose up, which means they realize they are dangerously low on fuel, yet they didn't declare Mayday to get the full attention and priority landing from ATC.
It's absurd the level to which ATC is ignoring the communications from the plane. During one of the hand-offs, the controller asks his fellow controller "Can you take him, or should I send him to his alternate"... when in the last interaction with the plane, they indicated they could no longer reach their alternate.
When this crew realizes that they only have one chance to land, their approach is already far beyond urgent and is clearly an emergency. Declaring an emergency gives them access to the entire airport, which is what they need for their desperate situation, but they never succinctly communicate this. It's very unfortunate how everybody on board suffers in the outcome.
Thanks Captain Hindsight. What would we do without you.
When the New York Center controller informed them that it was indefinite holding they should have proceeded straight to Boston.
@@EpicJoshua314 Thanks Captain Hindsight. What would we do without you too?
@@nickv4073 What would we do without people who ridicule others for analyzing a crash in the comments section to a crash video?
Yep. IMO this one is almost entirely on the pilot/FO/engineer.
This episode gave me horrible anxiety. I kept yelling at them tell them it's an emergency!!!! You have no gas. I had to keep fast forwarding, very hard to watch.
It did me too and this is my second time watching this episode!! So gut wrenching!
Gas?
Same! It was nerve wracking just to watch that but to comprehend what the people went through because of a horrible ATC work is beyond me.
One of the best episodes...R.I.P. to those who lost their lives.
Man I remember this happening and how bad it was here in Newark that day. A lot of these flights should never have been allowed to take off towards this area or have should have been directed towards they're alternate before even going into the first holding pattern. But the pilots should have been more direct with they're situation too. But sadly the bottom line is the bottom line. Very poor airport management. So sad yet so unavoidable
We are low on fuel should be direct enough and you can hear the anguish clearly in the FO voice on original cabin recording! Atc were not listening.
@@joanbaczek2575 👍
Blame it on ATC, seems to be the battle cry. That poor Spanish Crew, how were they to know? Well they knew enough to fly an American Aircraft, why not learn American procedures and the language while your at it?
So if your right, then why has there never been a passenger plane crash in Newark? Save your bullshit. Sounds like your house is in the flight path. Deal with it or move.
I LIke his voice nice and smoothing can listen to him for hours he can be the next morgan freeman
The passengers were the only innocent people involved in this crash!
Even the drug mules!!
@@lisasanders9472 Yes even the drug mules.
😬
Don't believe your statement is true.
@@lisasanders9472 Of the passengers, they were on the less innocent side though hah
Unfair I think, the pilots made mistakes but they were not guilty.
Fuel tank to Pilot ""MAYDAY MF "
So true
I found that comment unreasonably hilarious.
[CONCERNED SLOSHING SOUNDS]
@@buckstarchaser2376 I found your comment unreasonably hilarious lmao
This!👌
This has to be in the top 5 most memorable Mayday episodes for me.
Me too
I love this channel!! Full clear episodes!!
Reading these accidents / incidents on wikipedia and other aviation-related websites vs. watching the documentaries of these, are so different. It is way more brutal to watch them reenacted than to read cold, factual words.
I felt like the first officer was a good worker who stepped up and did his best and SHOCKED the controllers were not receiving ANY part of the blame whatsoever
Thank you for making this
It is very intriguing that you put this episode right after the mid air collision one. Even more upset to see Nielsen being killed while someone else can just walk away.
This episode ends on a high with a key note from the survivor. You certainly know who to blame.
this was one of the more sad cases, and eerie. That shot of the plane quietly falling to the ground coming out of the fog always gave me chills
I would say that as an English speaker, there is a subtle difference between “priority” and “emergency.” Priority means I need to go first or there WILL be trouble; emergency means there is ALREADY trouble. It is also interesting in this recreation that the pilot repeatedly says “emergency” in talking to the first officer (which I assume is the translation from the cockpit recorder) but the first officer never uses that word to ATC.
That being said, there were definitely other clues and key words that should have made the ATCs take notice. Especially glaring is that the fact that they could not make Boston was not communicated from one ATC to another, even after one specific talks about their alternate airport, he isn’t corrected. The wiki says the one ATC didn’t hear them say they couldn’t make Boston, but I am going to guess it was on the CVR, so it was said, meaning there was a break down in ATCs attention. How you know this and still find ATC blameless is beyond me.
Also I am not clear on how communicating they would only have one shot at landing would have helped anything with the actual landing (though it may have made ATC snap to). It sounds like the other runways were closed, and there was nothing ATC could do to fix visibility or wind sheer. I think they were screwed once they no longer had the fuel to get to Boston honestly.
What an unnerving episode. Between the gentlemans description of the wind hitting the plane once the engines died to the scene of it silently falling this is one hard hitting episode.
RIP to all those who died in this tragedy. 🙏🏻 My thoughts and prayers are with their loved ones and the survivors.
Amen
Prayers have absolutely no effect on reality. It's imaginary.
Amen
@@danielueblacker9118 Ramen
@@power2084Only an unbeliever would say that.
Love these air disaster docs
Yeah, this was a good one I saw already but thumbs up and thanks! 👍
I was screaming at the cockpit SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THE FUEL!!! Omg they doomed that flight. SAY SOMETHING!!
Right... The copilot really f*ked up. Talking like he's ordering fries in McDonalds and they didnt give him ketchup. Mildly annoyed
I know everyone has a feeling about this and the blame is enough to go around. But I think if I were the pilot and when it came to the place I only had one hour of fuel left with almost 200 souls in my hands I would have been crying out as loud as I could. All controllers would had know I AM RUNNING OUT OF FUEL. Get me on the ground now.
I so agree. I would have sallowed my pride
But they never efficiently communicated that though, which is the sad part, they allowed controllers to put them in a hold position which, if I were the controller, wouldn’t think it was that urgent of an emergency
So you would yell out "EMERGENCY "right!
This is very sad I remember when this flight fell out of the sky living in Long Island New York. It was a devastating evening it was very cold and very wet. Unfortunately this plate never had a chance. They're telling them that running out of fuel, that telling the peoples that the engines are shutting down. And it's still telling them to the fur around the airport they needed emergency landing. Unfortunately they landed in Commack New York. Right on the outskirts of Long Island. Right by the ocean. It's very sad that many people died but they are some survivors many were children.
I feel so much for every single person on this plane. I remember the nightmare of circling, circling, circling for over an hour over Philadelphia or New York almost every time we came back from visiting grandparents for Christmas. Planes were still smoking in those days, and you felt so helpless and trapped and miserable.
On top of the tragedy, think how many centuries' jet fuel was wasted by dozens or even hundreds of planes circling for 2-3 hours every day.
Ugh...the little one pleading for her Mom is frikkin heart wrenching. All those little ones being carried from the wreckage 😢
I am a pilot and I am amazed how in the past airlines allow their captains with zero english level to flight into complex international airports. even the copilot level was so poor. that was timing bomb and many more happen because of language barrier. Today all pilots needs at least IACO Level 4 ESL English on their licence to flight outside their country borders. all aviation regulations are wrtitten in blood and this is why is so important for pilots and operators to follow these rules.
Incompetent co-pilot. You have almost no fuel and you sit there waiting, barely communicating this extreme emergency with the ATC controller. Absolutely avoidable.
The flight controller who handed the plane over to another person has its part in the crash !
18:00 - Why are the controllers having all those flights hold at lower altitudes, rather than putting the holding patterns at or near cruising altitude where they'll burn less fuel and be able to safely hold for longer?
Wow this one was really good!
Seems to me that everyone who is passing judgement here is ignoring that this happened in 1990. A lot of accidents occured that made today's flights safer than this one...
Oh well, in that case it's fine. 🙄
And in 30 years flights will be safer than they are today.. Your point?
Emergency and Mayday protocols were well established by then.
This might just be the best episode
Unbelievable that this occurred, soooooooo many unnecessary human errors, some bordered on complete and utter idiocy …… compounded by cockpit frustrations the captain had. Also, a total lack of authority on behalf of the co-pilot, to communicate the dire situation at hand with controllers!? The auto-pilot being none operational gave this flight a problem that sealed it’s fate…..RIP to those who past due to a series of avoidable instances. Sad.
Excellent sharing
Sad and very preventable the flight crew should have made the standard PAN PAN radio call early on followed by a Mayday when things got worse. Using standard terms makes it much easier for all to understand the situation at hand.
And the air traffic controllers shoukd have listened to them when they said they were low on fuel.
@@Joelswinger34 No... just no, I explained this to you in another response.
@@Joelswinger34 hope you are not a pilot. 🤷♂️🤦♂️
I feel so bad for those people
Whenever airline companies put the numbers and dollars ahead of crew and passenger safety, this terrible tragedy is what you get. When will they learn??? I think never.
You can't expect companies to learn this when regular people don't even check their regular vehicles before driving off because they think its a waste of time and effort.
Money talks and money always walks
Money is the root of all evil
Emergency Emergency!!! We are out of fuel!!!!! What was so difficult about reporting that over and over!?!? Why?? Especially when the controller after the missed approach send them way out by the outer marker again, although by that time I think it was too late either way.
One word: Translation.
Words hold slightly different meanings in different languages and learning another one is difficult the first few times. They also cannot fill the air over the radio constantly due to heterodynes. I would expect that if a plane says they are running out of fuel every single time they radio in for over 30 minutes that this would indicate that they are going to make a landing sooner or later to controllers, but the hand offs were a complete mess.
I don't think the pilots really are to blame here. It's the person in Washington D.C. that forced 33 landings an hour regardless of safety or conditions who allowed and actively encouraged for this situation to transpire. I'd place almost all the blame on his head as that is reckless negligence for the lives of passengers with all the information he had at the time.
The only issue is that to fly a plane, you are expected to know the international language of aviation, which happens to be English. Not knowing it is a failure in part of your job as a pilot. Effective communication is a massive part of crew resource management, which these pilots utterly failed at. You should know how to properly communicate before taking to the skies. Clear communication is the responsibility of the sender, not the receiver. While in a normal job, these person's may not be liable, that changes when you take control of a commercial aircraft, just like it does when you carry a police badge. If you can't clearly and concisely communicate in the international language of aviation, you have no business being behind the controls of an aircraft
@@annihilator247x Translation doesn't hold up here. like Alden said. There's a specific language to use with specific terminology for international flight. The pilots failed in their communication.
@@annihilator247x what are you talking about? The word emergency must be used period. It is protocol, and you have this word pounded into your head when becoming a pilot. Noting to do with translation.
The moment tm you say emergency. You get ATCs undivided attention. They clear all traffic and give you any runway you want, as soon as you want it.
There is no debate here, you MUST say "declaring an emergency". Every word spoken between ATC and pilots is standardized. Every word.
A lesser emergency is called a Pan Pan, the pilots didn't even declare a pan pan, and even that would have been sufficient.
For reference, the current standards for minimum reserve fuel are 30 minutes hold [1500'] at the planned alternate aerodrome. This would mean that, assuming your alternate was 30 minutes away from you, diversion should mandatorily occur at 60 minutes fuel remaining, if it is assumed you would breach your minimum reserve awaiting landing clearance at your primary [first choice] airport.
I love this episode
I know this is a hot topic for debate and before anyone says anything, yes, ATC probably should have asked "are you declaring an emergency" - HOWEVER, aviation has standardized language for a reason. Non-standardized language contributed to the single worst aviation disaster in history. This was a failure on the part of the pilots due to complete CRM breakdown. They were yelling at each other about declaring an emergency and never actually did it. Priority? It's New York in bad weather, EVERYONE wants priority, that tells ATC nothing. Low on fuel? Again, it's New York in bad weather. Everyone is low on fuel. Everyone is stressed. They didn't make it clear that this wasn't a want, but a need. My sincerest condolences to the passengers for the absolute horror they went through but this was almost entirely the fault of the pilots, not ATC - again, the most ATC could have done was ask "are you declaring an emergency"
34:37 The most scariest recreation I have ever seen on a Air crash episode… damn just sad
Oh yes! A full episode
The word priority is not a negative word but the word emergency is.
The pilots should have chosen correct words to effectively describe their situation.
Emergency has far more weight
Big fan I love to watch your vedios
I happened to hear the plane fly over my house, as a kid. It actually crashed, not far away from where one of my grand parents lived at the time.
Transferring someone that many times is crazy!
Irresponsible to keep flying into known bad weather once your fuel is low. Take any airport and land!
That is indeed gross injustice but since the culprits were Americans and victims were not was the reason ATC got away
Transponders should include fuel level along with speed and altitude. Its a few bytes of data extra that can immediately convey an emergency situation.
This is one of those disasters that make you angry. The lack of assertiveness in making a swift position with ATC requesting immediate landing or diverting to alternate. They should have never flown hold pattern past the point where their fuel isn't sufficient to go to alternative airport.
Why are the same episodes uploaded by youtubers? Guessing the rights for other episodes must be different.
Good episode, just seen it posted a lot.
Very Sad Story Rip 🙏😢
It is indeed necessary to declare an emergency, you notice they have no pilots or investigators on here saying "there was no need to declare an emergency, the controllers should have known", but the truth is they didn't know until they declared engine flameouts
This is typical New York high stress workplace where ppl make mistakes due to high stress load.
Majorly ATC partly Pilot. These Pilots were stressed and tired. If you listened carefully, the Autopilot was inoperable throughout the flight. That 4hrs+ of manual flying not to add holding delays and the stress that comes with it.
19:17
Captain: "how much fuel?"
FE: "80085"
Captain: "🤣"
FE: "But seriously, we're all going to die"
"If I'm curt with you, its because time is a factor."
Not my responsibility as ATC to understand if you are "curt" ; it is yours, as a Pilot to tell me just how serious your situation is. EMERGENCY.. is the word you are searching for.
@@peterolsen269 Seriously.... you never watched Pulp Fiction? It's a quote. Notice the "quotation marks"? (Freakin' millennials).
Watching this video was so stressful I had to keep pausing and walking away to calm down. It all came down to the flight crew's failures of protocol, communication, and training. The controllers cannot fly your plane for you, and they cannot read your instruments for you. You are responsible for the safety of your plane. If you have a problem, it is your responsibility to tell them. Say the magic words "pan-pan" or "emergency" and you'll get all the special help and attention you need, but it's the flight crew's responsibility to know when to say the magic words.
(Side note:
"but they said they were low on fuel" "but they said they wanted priority"
Talking about fuel and wanting higher priority are VERY common topics of conversation between pilots and ATC. Everyone's impatient and wants priority. Everyone's worried about running out of fuel. That's why there are standardized override words for when there's a really serious no-BS problem. Those override words (pan-pan and emergency) don't come up in standard conversation, so they throw up huge red flags and get pilots the help they need right away. If you don't use the magic words, you're just having a normal conversation.)
The captain didn't understand English well enough to understand the first officer's conversation with ATC. That's understandable: the English language sucks in like eighteen different ways. Unfortunately, English is the international standard language for aviation, and understanding it is a job requirement for a commercial pilot. The captain was not qualified to be a commercial airline pilot.
The first officer was scared of the controllers and wasn't properly trained in aviation communication, so he let them walk all over him and failed to communicate critical life-or-death information. Communication was his job (the captain was flying the plane) and he didn't do it. The first officer was not qualified to be a commercial airline pilot.
Any flight crew has three priorities: Aviate (fly the plane safely), Navigate (in the right direction), and Communicate (and tell people what you're doing and what you need). These guys failed at all three. They didn't land the plane when they needed to. They didn't divert when they needed to. They didn't tell anyone they were in distress. As a result, lots of people died.
THIS. ALL OF IT.
Why the novel? You really need to get out more.
I don’t know if you worked for ATC or what, but this was 31 years ago. So for the last 30 years I’m sure procedures are set up a lot better. And they are a lot more clarified on the right word to use. The flight crew undoubtedly messed up and needed to do more. There’s several places they messed up. But based on this video as seems clear to me that ATC wasn’t going to lift a metaphorical finger to communicate the importance of them running out of fuel. If the pilots didn’t use the “abracadabra” magic word then ATC was just going to pass them on and on to other people. The one controller knew that the pilot said they only had enough fuel to continue in a holding pattern for the next five minutes.
At the time if a Spanish speaking Captain failed their English proficiency exam it wasn't a big deal as long as the Captain could operate the aircraft and the co-pilot knew English, but today all active-duty crewmembers must be fluent in English.
@@iMatti00 you don’t get it …
" it does not compute"
"Danger Will Robinson!"
The clowns in DC created these problem. The flight should have been sent to other airports once weather became so bad.
Agreed. When you try to land more planes than is possible you’re gonna have planes in the sky for longer and longer as the day goes on and the pressure and workload is gonna go up more and more.
Flight crew is responsible to know their fuel state, weather ahead and when they're at the point of diverting. Period.
@@johnevans7006 Don´t think its that clear cut. It was a combination of factors. It was complicated by the fact, that the crew did not know they would be put in holding patterns for as long as they were. The crew is definitely responsible for not having declared an emergency though.
@@Romans8-9 in the end, it's the captain's responsibility to take the necessary steps to keep his passengers safe. He should have made the call to divert and/or used the proper terminology by DECLARING AN EMERGENCY, not asking for priority. Failed as a leader.
When I hear word priority if there are 100 planes I’m thinking of its on my list to get done soon maybe 1 of the next 10, totally different than emergency. So insane wow
3:30 - Why are the New York Center controllers allowing the Washington Center controllers to dictate how many flights they'll take? It's not as if the Washington controllers can do much of anything if the New York controllers simply refuse to clear that many flights into their airspace...
All those babies that died really broke my heart...
So much blame to go around in these comments but almost nobody is stating the obvious: If the captain had heeded the glideslope warnings from not only his plane, but his FO, and not had to go around, this entire accident could've been avoided. Yes, there was no reason for so many planes to be holding around one airport, but when he failed to land when given initial clearance, he doomed that flight. So sad.
Yes, I do think the ATC s along that last. bit of the flight failed, although the F/O should have been more forceful in telling them no, they could not do another holding pattern. Well, a perhaps avoidable tragedy. And once again, airline companies pushing for flights to keep coming in to airports in very bad weather. Greed. Lives lost. So sad.
I can see where there's blame to share here, especially when the one controller didn't tell the next one about the plane only having five minutes of fuel left. A big chunk of the blame belongs to the higher-ups in DC for insisting on such unreasonable and unsafe landing rates.
At the same time, I find the most fault with the crew for their poor communication with ATC. Like it or not, English is the language of international aviation, and they didn't use it effectively. In English, there's a difference between "we need PRIORITY" and "we're in an EMERGENCY," and there's an even bigger difference between "we're RUNNING OUT of fuel" and "we're OUT of fuel." If you don't use the right words to tell ATC what you need, how can you expect them to give it to you?
The guy who ordered 33 is the one who should be held accountable.
On the dark humor side, "Hello, Police? There's an airplane crashed on our front lawn. Yes, a big one. 123 Pleasant Drive. OK, thank you."
It would be bad to be on a crashing plane but if I had my kids with me it would be so much worse. How scary for a little kid. And nothing you can do
If you don’t know the difference between “priority” and “emergency” I don’t know what to tell you.
If the ATC controller didn’t understand how urgent it was when the pilot said they only had enough fuel for five more minutes in a holding pattern, I don’t know what to tell you.
The international language of aviation is English, communication is a massive part of being a pilot. We don't allow deaf people to fly commercial jets, because they can't properly communicate. Not being able to communicate should disbar you from ever being behind the controls of a commercial airliner until you can effectively demonstrate that you can meet the requirements of the job fully and without hesitation or confusion
@@iMatti00 for all the ATC controller knew, "5 mins" could mean 5 mins until they hit their divert-to-alternate fuel limit, or even 5 mins until they hit their 30 min emergency reserve fuel. To ATC it would be inconceivable that a pilot would allow themselves to get UNDER their emergency fuel reserve without saying 'emergency', 'pan-pan' or 'mayday'.
In English 'priority' absolutely does not mean emergency. A person can have many priorities - it does not signify they must be dealt with before every other aircraft in the air. In contrast, 'emergency' clearly signals they must be dealt with first and immediately. This is why 'emergency', 'pan-pan' and 'mayday' are the internationally recognised terms for a dangerous situation in the air. It is almost inconceivable that pilots flying into an English speaking airport would not have been taught this.
While I feel ATC has a small amount of culpability, I am absolutely stunned that the pilots did not utter any of those words even once. Personally I would have been screaming them at the top of my lungs from the moment I hit my 30 min reserve fuel until I was on the ground. (Possibly even earlier given the bad weather.) It's a depressing thought that every life would have been saved if the pilots had uttered a single one of those words.
@@iMatti00 Never assume anything. If the ATC didn't seem to understand, it's the pilot's responsibility for CLEARLY and CONCISELY communicating their situation. They did not. There' specific terminology to use while flying and they did not use it. "Declare an emergency". Not "ask for priority"...
I can tell ya, I don't want to be a passenger on that plane.😳
Omg! 😳😳😳
4:07 what’s the name of this song
Can someone explain to me why they didn't go to Boston after 48 minutes of waiting with bad weather on the runway?
Boston was equally as full of planes and they would have to spend as long or even longer waiting and holding pattern in the air
I think it's the first officer, the pilot told him to say we don't have fuel
Management more concerned with profit than passenger and crew safety should be held accountable. You cannot apply arbitrary KPIs when weather and physics rule.
33:06 bruh the engines are stopping because of fuel but they were too lazy to make the arrow actually be at 0, it still displays like 10,000 lbs of fuel remaining, great video nonetheless
The pilots failed to communicate properly. Especially at the end. But THEY should have communicated the fuel issue an HOUR before landing.
The fault is on the engineer? What about the controller who didn’t communicate the fuel shortage during the handover to his colleague???????
They should have told about the low fuel earlier, not waited to tell. Should have asked for priority earlier. So sad😢
It seems as if the ATC should be able to declare an emergency for a plane in case the pilots are too unintelligent to do so themselves.
No kidding, it's called "declaring an emergency", not fucking "requesting priority". Being a pilot require precision, especially in communication. While ATC didn't help the situation, the lawyer is being an obvious sleezeball capitalist attorney by trying to shift blame away from the only people with the power to have prevented it
"Funny" that I have no experience in aviation whatsoever, but just by watching these episodes I was asking constantly why they were not declaring emergency, and I really cursed on them when they accepted the added 16 miles diversion after the first missed landing attempt. It seems to me that a series of poor decisions of the pilots caused the crash, starting from not checking the weather.
@@aldendrew9936 Yeah! Non-capitalists never shift blame. That's why China and Soviet Russia always own up to mistakes LOL
@@themalacast you are obviously far over simplifying ideological lines, I didn't whatsoever imply that communism was any more "honest", just that capitalism promotes fudging the truth to benefit yourself economically, just like that lawyer. Please actually read, digest, think, and analyze before commenting something so simple minded. Should you not be able to achieve all of the above, please refrain from saying anything at all
They try but that aproach in fog and shear is hard really hard
This could have been avoided if the pilots simply diverted to Boston when they first inquired about it.
Or declared an emergency. Anything. They handled this like cowards. As if Avianca had a surplus of pilots.
@@Vespyr_ "asking for priority".... That means literally nothing in aviation. Declare and emergency and take command. He was a captain and didn't act like it.
@@Blackwind_Legacy This was a systemic issue. You just basically said all foreign pilots don't act like Captain's. Priority does mean something in Aviation. Aviation isn't just your hemisphere. Your cliche, American ignorance and sheer lack of empathy cost real lives.
Mayday indeed.
Upload a full episode on Northwest 85
At least it didn’t blow up when it hit the ground because that was a Eerie feeling when I saw it coming down . Imagine if it blew up 😭😭😭😭
miscommunication and overloaded atcs are lethal
JFK should have been sending as many planes to their alternate as possible. That would free things up for all of the missed approaches. But that would have meant less money for all parties? So why do that?
3:39 the guy in this position set the scenario of the coming accident. More flights, more flights, don't care about safety, handle more flights!
I still find it ironic that they’re called “black boxes” despite being bright Reese’s orange.
I think of it as Browns orange, but that works too
Its bcz, The black boxes which were designed initially (1950's)were actually black in color, now for easier , and for quicker visibility they are painted in orange color .
@@sushmaratnakar6560 oh, I see. Thank you. Cool!