Ponticello di violino - Appendice - Misure, peso e frequenza
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- ⬇️⬇️ (English translation below the Italian text) ⬇️⬇️
00:06 - Ponticello di violino - Appendice - Misure, peso e frequenza
00:46 - Non esiste un vero e proprio standard per le misure, il peso, e la frequenza, perchè ogni violino potrebbe aver bisogno di caratteristiche diverse di rigidità, massa e frequenza del ponticello per ottimizzare la risposta acustica e in base alle sue caratteristiche geometriche ed acustiche. Ad esempio la larghezza dipende dalla posizione della catena e dalla distanza tra gli occhi delle effe, e l'altezza è strettamente legata all'inclinazione del manico (proiezione della tastiera) e all'altezza delle corde. Per l'acustica potrebbe essere necessario ridurre o aumentare le sezioni per ridurre o aumentare la rigidità generale e il peso (massa), con evidente influenza sulla risposta in frequenza. Nelle immagini che seguono indico le misure minime e massime che io utilizzo e che ritengo ottimali, seguite da un esempio di misure reali del ponticello realizzato nei video precedenti.
03:19 - Considero come ottimale un peso del ponticello compreso tra 1,8g e 2,1g. Io considero 1,8g come limite minimo da non oltrepassare per motivi di resistenza strutturale, ma ritengo invece possibile aumentare il peso fino anche a circa 2,5g se le caratteristiche geometriche ed acustiche del violino lo imponessero. Un ponticello pesante (2,5g) potrebbe però rallentare la velocità di risposta per la massa eccessiva e aumentare eccessivamente la rigidità e la componente di alte frequenze favorendo un timbro aspro
04:37 - La frequenza di risonanza laterale del ponticello controlla in una certa misura la brillantezza del violino, ed è determinata dalla massa della parte superiore e dall'elasticità della vita (distanza centrale tra gli occhi). Assottigliando o riducendo le dimensioni (massa) della parte superiore si aumenterà la frequenza e la brillantezza, mentre riducendo la distanza centrale tra gli occhi si ridurrà la rigidità ottenendo l'effetto opposto, ammorbidendo il suono riducendone la brillantezza. Tipicamente viene accordata intorno ai 3000 Hz, ma è possibile ridurla fino a circa 2800 Hz o aumentarla fino a circa 3400 Hz a seconda delle necessità acustiche del violino o delle preferenze timbriche del musicista. Per misurarla io utilizzo il software libero Audacity (gratuito) e un comune microfono da PC, ma qualsiasi software con un'analizzatore di spettro può andare bene
English translation
00:06 - Violin bridge - Appendix - Measurements, weight and frequency
00:46 - There is no real standard for measures, weight, and frequency, because each violin may need different characteristics of stiffness, mass, and frequency of the bridge to optimize the acoustic response according to its geometric and acoustic characteristics. For example, the width depends on the position of the bassbar and the distance between the eyes of the Fs, and the height is closely linked to the neck tilt (projection of the fingerboard) and the height of the strings. For the sound, it may be necessary to reduce or increase the sections to reduce or increase the overall stiffness and weight (mass), with evident influence on the frequency response. In the following images I indicate the minimum and maximum measurements that I use and that I consider optimal, followed by an example of real measurements of the bridge made in the previous videos.
03:19 - I consider a bridge weight between 1.8g and 2.1g as optimal. I consider 1.8g as a minimum limit not to be exceeded for reasons of structural resistance, but I believe it is possible to increase the weight up to about 2.5g if the geometric and acoustic characteristics of the violin required it. A heavy bridge (2.5g), however, could slow the response speed due to excessive mass and excessively increase the stiffness and the high-frequency component favoring a harsh timbre.
04:37 - The lateral resonant frequency of the bridge controls to some extent the brilliance of the violin and is determined by the mass of the crown (the portion under the strings) and the elasticity of the waist (center distance between the eyes). Thinning or reducing the size (mass) of the crown will increase the frequency and brilliance, while reducing the center distance between the eyes will reduce the stiffness, achieving the opposite effect, softening the sound by reducing its brilliance. Typically it is tuned around 3000 Hz, but it is possible to reduce it to around 2800 Hz or increase it to around 3400 Hz depending on the acoustic needs of the violin or the tonal preferences of the player. To measure it I use Audacity software (free) and a common PC microphone, but any software with a spectrum analyzer can be fine.
Index of videos - English: davidesora.alt...
Italiano: davidesora.alt...
#costruzioneviolino #violinmaking
Thanks you a lot, start a dream of mine by studying with your videos much love from Brasil 🇧🇷
Very important information and useful for violin bridge construction and dimensions. Thank you Grand Master ! 🎻⭐️🎵🎶 ♥️
This is hammer info. For quite a while I was asking myself about these parameters mentioned. Thanks a lot for sharing!
Thank you very much Maestro, you give us a lot of precious benefits
Grazie mille maestro Davidе!
Thanks Davide, very helpful.
Preziose informazioni. Grazie!
Una domanda: peso e misure del ponticello sono da prendere in considerazione anche in base agli spessori della tavola armonica?
Direi di no, peso (massa) e misure (rigidità) del ponticello sono correlate al suono del violino
In quali circostanze il peso del ponticello può arrivare a 2.5 grammi? Quali sono le caratteristiche che deve avere lo strumento per una simile differenza? E invece cosa accade se il ponticello è molto più leggero? Grazie ancora 🙏🏻
@@BhushanMoretti Non ti posso rispondere perchè non ci sono condizioni standard a cui fare riferimento, e la risposta sarebbe troppo lunga e articolata. Comunque un peso di 2,5 g potrebbe essere giustificato dalle dimensioni del ponticello (alto e largo) o dalla densità (alta) del legno, o da entrambe le condizioni. Per sapere cosa accade variando il peso del ponticello c'è solo un modo per saperlo, fare ponticelli di pesi diversi per il tuo violino, montarli e sentire le differenze. Queste saranno peculiari per quel violino, i risultati potrebbero essere diversi su un'altro violino.
un'altra serie di insegnamenti che ho avuto l'immenso piacere di guardare con grande attenzione, grazie mille per la tua lezione, ti confesso che sono molto contento di tutto quello che ho imparato dai tuoi video... un giorno avrò il piacere di incontrarti di persona. obs: non parlo italiano sto usando il traduttore di Google rs
Se verrai qui a Cremona ti accoglierò volentieri nella mia bottega per un saluto.
Fantástic!
You make a lot of useful videos, thank you very much! Can you make a similar video for a VIOLA bridges - 48-50mm?
I think for the moment you will have to settle for these for violin bridge, I don't make many violas and the next I have to make is expected in a couple of years on my waiting list, so definitely not before then, sorry. However, apart from the height which is usually around 38/40 mm, the other measures are about 0.5 / 0.7 mm more than the violin. The weight will be around 2.8 / 3.0 g and unfortunately I do not have precise data for the resonance frequency, which in any case is only an indicative range to be adjusted based on the acoustic response and not a precise measure to be respected.
Furthermore, violas are very variable in measures such as vibrating string length, body size, etc. and the bridge is strictly dependent on the geometries of the instrument, so it is difficult to establish a narrow range to use as a "standard".
Thank you!
extremely helpful and very accurate!
also if i may ask maestro, is it okay to treat the bridge with the casein sealer to protect it from humidity fluctuations? would you recommend it?
I don't like putting sealers on the bridge, because to be effective they will have to penetrate the wood, with an effect on its vibrations which in most cases will cause a deterioration in the acoustic performance. Honestly, I have never tried with casein, also because I fear that it could also cause twisting of the bridge due to its traction force on the wood fibers. I know some people use shellac which shouldn't give twisting issues with a decent sealing effect, but I don't like that either.
I prefer to apply an extremely thin and superficial layer (absolutely avoiding deep penetration) of siccative (cooked) linseed oil, as you can see here: ruclips.net/video/rTOawqEucGA/видео.html
I apply it evenly and very sparingly, being very careful to avoid its penetration because a deep absorption would compromise the vibratory efficiency of the bridge.
@@DavideSora brilliant maestro, will try the same
@@Aecarvalho007 Just be careful not to put too much oil, just use your fingers greased with linseed oil and manipulate the bridge a little, or a small piece of absorbent paper almost dry, with no liquid oil visible on the surface
@@DavideSora yes certainly, too much oil will change the vibrations and also increase weight right?
Furthermore I wanted to ask if there is any glue which could replace hide glue for violin making, as India has hot and humid conditions, hide glue comes off in months
@@Aecarvalho007 Linseed oil, if it penetrates deeply, does not come into contact with oxygen and never dries out, muffling the sound by adding too much damping.
Regarding glue, I am not aware of alternative glues for violins other than hide glue. Mind you, any non-rubbery glue will hold a violin together and work properly, but it won't be reversible making repairs and restorations a real nightmare. On fine violins hide glue is absolutely mandatory.
When I talk about hide glue, I mean the one in beads to be melted in a double-boiler on the stove and to be used hot, not the already dissolved one sold in bottle ready to use to cold. The first, when dry, is quite resistant to humidity, it takes hot water to melt it. It must be of good quality and made fresh every time, not boiled many times or a few days old after being dissolved.
Salve Maestro, hai per caso delle indicazioni generali sulle misure del ponte di viola? Ci sono dei calcoli per trasportare le misure che hai dato per il ponte del violino, alle varie misure di viola? Grazie e complimenti per la serie di video sul ponte!!
le misure del ponte di viola sono circa mezzo millimetro in più del violino, a parte la larghezza dei piedi che sarà 47,5/48 mm e l'altezza totale che srà 38/40 mm a seconda dalle misure della viola. Il raggio sopra alle corde io lo faccio 39 mm per la viola. Se vuoi un disegno con le misure devi mandarmi una E-mail
Do you have english version of this video? And also information?
You can find the english translation with all the informations in the description page of the video, below the italian text
@@DavideSora i swear i will have one of your violin someday, with all respect i would like to ask for your permission to ask our lutheir to copy your bridge measurement.
@@rolandodelacruzjr.9826 I appreciate your thoughtfulness in asking, but getting permission is unnecessary. Please note that these are just guidelines that may need to be modified on a case-by-case basis.
Buenos días, la medida de la cuerda vibrante se hace con el violín terminado y creo que ya no se puede modificar. Estoy copiando el violín "Vieuxtemps" de Guarneri y la medida de la cuerda vibrante según el poster de The Strad es 328 mm pero la mía mide 327, supongo que es admisible aunque un poco por debajo de lo que recomiendas en el video
Saludos
One mm of difference is more than acceptable, the vibrating strings of violins can vary from 325/326mm (many del Gesu are like this) to 329/330mm (many Stradivarius are like this).
If you really want to obtain an exact measurement of the vibrating string, you can move the bridge slightly further forward or backward, if the displacement is contained within a mm plus or minus, it could be acceptable. It is also possible to move the bridge forward (towards the fingerboard) by two mm, aligning the back part with the line of the F notches rather than keeping it centered, if the violinist feels the need for a shorter vibrating string, for example a due to short fingers and small hands. Of course, you will have to set the soundpost accordingly.
Hello, since there is no place to repair a violin in the area where I live, I want to learn how to cut a bridge myself, but I did not receive any training on this, I just watched these videos. Is it something that can be done with an ordinary model knife and a lot of trying, or is it something that cannot be done without training?
To make a good professional bridge you need the appropriate tools (not just a knife), learn to sharpen them properly, learn to use them properly, develop the experience necessary to understand what size to give to the bridge and the cutouts, and understand how to modify them according to the acoustic response of each violin. It is a rather long learning curve that requires specific training. Then, nothing is really impossible, you can even learn by yourself if you work hard and have the necessary sensitivity and skill, but I fear it will take a lot of time, a lot of bridges, and something better than a hobbyist cutter. It also depends on what violins we are talking about, if they are low-cost studio violins you don't need a high-level bridge, just one that can withstand the pressure of the strings. However, if we are talking about good quality violins, I believe that the chances of you being able to do something good are very slim, you need much more experience than you think, it is one of the most difficult and delicate tasks for the violinmaker because, with a bad bridge, you can make even a Stradivari sound bad.🙂
But then again, nothing is impossible with the right mental attitude, and trying costs nothing (apart from the cost of the tools and the numerous bridges you will need to practice, which is not negligible...). Not knowing you, I cannot know what your mental attitude and predisposition towards this kind of thing is, I just ask you not to practice on valuable violins, you could seriously damage them.
👍👍👍👍😊🇧🇷