The crackdown on NatCon Brussels | spiked podcast
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- Опубликовано: 9 июн 2024
- Toby Young joins Fraser Myers and Tom Slater to discuss the centrist authoritarianism taking over Europe, Rishi Sunak’s tyrannical smoking ban and the great awokening of NPR.
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Unfortunately, even in Europe, not everyone wants freedom; a lot of people naturally gravitate towards a domineering oppressive orthodoxy. Maintaining freedom in the world is a never ending task.
See Thomas Jefferson.
All 'hate speech' laws need to be struck from the books. These laws are so nebulous, vague and subjective, that they can be bent to mean whatever you want them to mean. Giving politicians and judicial 'activists' that kind of power is mind bogglingly stupid!
From what I'm seeing, hearing, and what is truly happening, we're supposed to not discuss the issues that are affecting our everyday lives. What is the sense of having any communication anywhere, when facts are being buried under the mattress. This isn't going to fly, and I see who the real culprit is behind all this in Europe. Logically speaking, it's the little people that put money in the pockets of the wealthy.
Great conversations guys. Thank you.
So, AntiFa can decide who is allowed to make a speech and who is not, courtesy of the Belgian police. Jusr as, apparently, Hope Not Hate can dictate to Reform UK who may or may not be a member of their Party.
What many self-described "Liberals" and Leftists mean when they talk of "Liberal values" and "Liberal Democracy" could more accurately be called Authoritarian Cosmopolitanism. They want to impose outcomes from above that appear Liberal on the surface, but don't come into existence via Liberal (or democratic) mechanisms. For example: The natural result of ethnic diversity is very often not unity, but division - especially when people are free to voice opinions which different identity groups find inflammatory. So in an attempt to impose social harmony from above, self-described "Liberals" curtail free-speech. The final result they are aiming for is a highly-diverse society that is harmonious and peaceful, as this appears Liberal to them. But to achieve anything close to that outcome they have to jettison real Liberalism, and instead do top-down social engineering. You see this with affirmative-action, quotas, etc... They want Liberal-seeming results using illiberal methods.
Wow-a good Spiked episode. Very informative and well analysed.
Everyone should read Patrick Deneen's book _"Why Liberalism Failed"_ to hear a perspective about why Western Liberal Democracies are becoming increasingly authoritarian. He argues this is due to inherent contradictions within Liberalism itself. Liberalism creates conditions that further applications of Liberalism aren't always able to solve, which encourages policymakers to reach for illiberal means.
Though not specifically mentioned in the book, in my opinion the de-facto blasphemy law that is in place in Britian and other parts of Western Europe regarding Islam is an example of this. It works something like this:
- Liberal immigration policies bring large numbers of Muslims into Western Europe from outside Europe.
- Liberal speech policies allow people to say or print things those Muslims find offensive.
- Many of those Muslims react badly to hearing/seeing such speech.
- Violence, mutual resentment, and social division ensues.
Governments then are faced with a number of choices for dealing with the problem, all of which are illiberal to some degree:
- Prevent more Muslims from coming into the country (illiberal)
- Deport existing Muslims from the country (illiberal)
- Use state power to try to forcibly "re-program" Muslims citizens to turn them into Liberals who will accept offensive free-speech (illiberal)
- Crack down on free-speech so as to discourage non-Muslims from insulting Muslim sensibilities (illiberal)
Typically, Western governments have reached for the last two, either because the first two are seen as too-difficult or too-undesirable. But even those last two in-turn produce more resentment and social division. Many Muslims resent the government and other non-Muslims dictating to them what their firmly held beliefs should be. Many non-Muslims resent having their free-speech restricted. They may also resent the governments which continue to allow what they see as undesirable migrants into the country. The upshot is much of the public becomes increasingly less keen on Liberalism and Liberal Democracy. This leads to a rise in "populist" political parties who promise a less-Liberal approach to things like immigration and culture. This rise in-turn alarms Liberals, who try to squash it using illiberal means. This then produces more public resentment of the Liberal government, and so on.... It's a spiral.
Anyone with Liberal ideals must think seriously and carefully about what kinds of conditions allow social harmony to arise naturally, and what conditions are naturally best conducive to Liberalism. The state will be able to use a light-touch in such societies. But in societies where Liberalism and social harmony don't arise naturally the state will inevitably reach for illiberal means, leading to the spiral mentioned above.
Turns out the "human condition" is insanity.
Mass delusion.
The smoking ban introduces the principle that different categories of citizens are not treated equally under the law. Worrying precedent.
Majuirana is illegal as the panel explain. Has that stopped its use? Also what is next for the “common good” alcohol? Chocolate and cakes? Driving your car? Dangerous sports? Slippery slope.
i love how there's just a random, open cardboard box in full view under the coffee table. That's Spiked; no frills just great conversation.
So.... I can't suggest a ironic award named after the mayor of Brussels?
Toby Young speaking perfect sense .
They should throw him in jail for speaking such heresy .
Trump 2024
I shouldn’t worry. I’m pretty sure they will at some point
Some people are in for a shock when they realise Communism is not 'kind'...
"When the military boot crushes his balls, *then* he will understand, but not until then... that is the tragic (sic) of this situation" - Yuri Bezmenov
‘Communism isn’t kind’ That’s true, but perhaps it’s a little bit of an understatement, with communism being responsible for 100 million plus civilian deaths under their belt workdwide…
And Justin Trudeau said, " hold my beer"!
New sub here, great discussion, and even better set design.👍
It makes more sense when you realize that some drugs are used differently along the political spectrum. Alcohol tends to be more tolerated by Rightwing governments while depressants tend to be more tolerated by Leftwing governments. Rightwing street thugs like stimulants like amphetamines while Leftwing thugs like Marijuana.
Question: when the majority of Canadians do not agree with Mr Trudeaus crack down on free speech. Is it not funny how a Country like Canada says everyone is equal under the law, mean while making laws for a small groups of people, at the expense of our free speech that is supposed to be a our charter of rights and freedoms, question is the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms even not worth the paper its written on, especilly when Canadian courts, are not willing up hold what is written in the first place. After all the charter was seemingly based upon the British Magna Carter, the Magna Carter was originally written about what not the dictator (King) could do to its public.
This unhinged new US news head Catherine Marr these corporations seem to have a deathwish. Another über woke women nearly destroyed Gillette, and another advertising executive for Budweiser almost destroyed that company.🤣
looking forward to spike article on the smoking ban
Question: what would you expect from Brussels, they do not promote free speech.
No mention of Yannis Veraukis his meeting was also shut down Spiked is the daily mail online
I'm very on the fence with the tobacco ban.
It seems very reasonable to protect people from the harm of cigarettes but it seems somewhat unfair on cigar and pipe smokers. I guess that's where the birth date based enforcement makes sense there.
If smoking didn't effect others, i.e. the NHS, this would be certainly an overreach.
Very on the fence
But remember, the tax on the cigarettes pay for the NHS treatment AND more. So there will be a loss.
@@JaniceDoe210 very good point, I forgot about the tax element!
I cannot be too upset with the Berlin Mayor though
You can have a multicultural Europe but it will have to be a police state in order to keep a lid on things .
See the place known as Yugoslavia and Tito.
The ironic thing was when Hitler was arrested, prosecuted and imprisoned. It just made him even more popular. Especially when there was a tidal wave of resentment towards the establishment at the time.
I'm not sure he registered on many people's radar at all, at that time. Nonetheless your point is valid, ban something without good reason and argument and it takes on a great allure...
Have you got a license for those opinions😂
When people are not able to debate ideals they bottle them up until they explode
Surely 'liberal authoritarianism' is an oxymoron? We must not cede words to them
Will 6th Formers studying A'level Mathematics and Physics need remedial Maths lessons? :)
as long as Fraser presents this show I will never listen to him, after he shut down Dr Campbell and Mr Bridgen.
It's a cult
The British have no right to talk about free speech while Julian Assange is rotting in Belmarsh prison.
F-off
Of course we do, there are loads of we BRITISH who don't think that man should be locked up.
Don't conflate the actions of our government at the behest of USA with the British people.
We hate our government.
Bollocks.
We British people aren't our government.
Would that include the exercising of our free speech rights to protest Assange's imprisonment? I think you are conflating the British state with its population. And if that's the case, then the entire discussion that opened this video went high over your head. 😆
The British people aren't the British government
I see you still have the right to talk utter bollocks though ? be thankful
Are you going to discuss the crackdown and devolvement of the Palestinian Congress in Berlin where over 2,000 German police descended on the people there to harass and arrest them for speaking out on a timely issue? It deserves equal attention as the appalling treatment of the concerned people at NatCon Brussels has received.
10:40....
@@jimdavis8391 Thanks . Shame Tomhad to throw in the ' Israelphobic Left' when referring to those people at the Palestine Congress but I support his free speech to do so. I am sure he is aware of the hypocritical bias of limiting free speech by free speech ' absolutists ' on the Right such as Ben Shapiro.when it comes to criticizing Israel.
Hey, perhaps the natcon hypocrites could make a complaint to E. C. H. R. 😂