I know it’s not a super well known boat but my grandma made it from the Netherlands to the USA on the HMS Veendam and it has a crazy history would you think about making a video about it for me? @BigOldBoats
Most definitely yes on the idea of a steam Schooner vid those are really cool! Lots of pics would be great too of course! Thank you in advance if you would so choose to produce such a vid!
Hi!!! My name is Brandy!! I have been researching this shipwreck for years after I discovered that my own family died in this shop wreck!! The keller family!! I believe they would be my great great (great?) grandmother!
The aviation industry calls the behaviour pilots (and ship crews as well, apparently) sometimes exhibit as a result of this pressure “Get-There-itis”. It’s caused so many plane crashes, it’s _ridiculous._ I’ve got news for companies who own and operate these vessels and engage in this sort of behaviour: ya can’t make a lot of money off your ships’ voyages or your planes’ flights if said ships and planes sink/crash/sometimes both after their crews make unsafe decisions because of the pressure you’re putting them under!
As a maritime historian for more years than I care to mention, I am very impressed with the clear, well-narrated, high production quality and sourcing of contemporary photographs and illustrations that make up the individual programmes within this series. This is truly one of the best sites of this particular genre on the web. The writing, editorial and content make this series both entertaining and educational. You may be justly proud of all your time and dedication. Believe me, it shows. Kudos!
As an amateur historian with no college degrees. I absolutely love his videos It's too bad someone like you doesn't do them or at least have involvement. You sound very knowledgeable and well versed.
the fact the engineer did not leave his post might have meant he did things to prevent a larger sized explosion (of the boiler or other steam machinery)... if that's the case, he saved many a life by his actions... something, truly worth remembering!
That’s the thing I respect most about sailors, aircrew, really any sort of crew or operator. The ones who are willing to risk or lay down their lives to save others is incredible. Knowing that you could easily save yourself but refusing to do so in order to help others really goes above and beyond heroism.
That's the thing you have to come to terms with if you're a "naval engineer/machinist" your job is not only one of the most important, but in the event that your ship sinks, you're the least likely to survive since bot only does someone need to stay in the engineering spaces "to keep the lights on" so that evacuation and calls for help can be conducted in an orderly manner, but you're so far down into the bowels of the ship that things can (and likely will) go pear shaped before you have any hope of getting out. Hats off to those lads, God blessed saints every one of them.
Doubtful. He was the 1st asst engineer and just joined the boat. Had there been something important like that to do the engineer himself would have stayed and made sure it was done instead of warning the others to not wait too long then going for his life preserver and abandoning his ship. Had the 1st engineer as well as the other men that failed to heed his warning died preventing some kind of disaster the engineer would have been crucified in the press. Since he wasn’t even mentioned when the blame was being passed around I can assume the men simply didn’t expect the ship to sink so quickly and lost their lives because of an assumption of having more time. Just a foolish mistake and the engineer should have made the lives of his subordinates a priority by ordering them to leave when he did. Instead of just giving them a simple warning.
I have read in journals and papers that often people thought a house with electric lights were on fire they were so much brighter even with the primitive bulbs
Absolutely mind-blowing that the captain would knowingly choose to continue sailing at full speed while in dense fog and knowing that there is another ship nearby, and neither ship knows where the other is or where it's going. Like...what kind of insanity is that?
Well... it actually does happen from time to time. When a person realizes that is doing some kind of nonsense, but cannot help doing it. And then sometimes can't explain, why. Despite the fact that often mentally absolutely healthy. At such moments, of course, it is important to "break" yourself, and do what is necessary. Again, not everyone is obviously capable of this. Perhaps this is indeed something like a slight short-term insanity... each of us, probably, at least once faced with something extremely inappropriate and outrageous creeping into the mind, or did (or vice versa, did not do, which led to) something is corrupted.
He would have gotten in serious trouble if he didn't keep the ship at full speed for the entire duration of the journey. That was the standard at the time, unfortunately.
@@bickyboo7789 Yeah, it's the same reason Titanic was sailing at full speed through an ice field. 1) Trans-Atlantic liners were held to tight schedules and their Masters couldn't just drop anchor and wait for ice to clear and 2) EVERYBODY was doing it, it was business as usual.
@@Vidmr2407 I mean, this was also the era when half of your children would die of disease or malnutrition before the age of 10. And if they survived that, they'd probably go die in a war somewhere or be maimed in some industrial accident. Life sucked back then, who cares about risks?
I find it wild that in the wake of this disaster, the lighthouse commission constructed the Punta Gorda lighthouse south of the mouth of the Mattole River to help improve visibility. Punta Gorda was abandoned in 1946 and was evidently the only lighthouse in California abandoned before commercial electrification made it onsite. So a lighthouse that was constructed after a ship with a claim to fame of electricity itself never saw electrification. Anybody who hikes the Lost Coast Trail can visit it.
It ALWAYS amazes me that during inclement weather, those in charge don't simply slow down. If you do so on a road, it would make even more sense to do so where you can't stop on a dime.
Great video 👌 Your comment about the ship sinking in less time than the video's duration really resonated.... it's one thing to hear "8 minutes" but quite startling to have it put into such immediate context. I can't imagine being a passenger trying to find my way out of an unfamiliar environment in that short a time. RIP 🤍
Watching/listening to a "spooky shipwreck show" has become a part of my bedtime routine, and it wouldn't work without your chill delivery. Keep on keepin on!
This is a really beautifully made documentary - it really brings alive the time, a real sadness of the event and the bravery at a time when the Ottoman Empire, Second Empire Germany, Second Republic France and Austrian Empire still existed. It looks so modern sometimes but it still has this sort of haunting of almost pre-history. It's very much a liminal time.
I can understand, on a personal level, how this ship's old iron frame gave out after a collision: I've been through a similar experience. It was only 7 years ago, for example, that my 20-year-old bicycle gave out on me while climbing up a hill, when its old frame of cro-moly steel snapped right behind the headset. These things happen. As for the captain, he definitely made a mistake on that fateful day, but he clearly spent the last minutes of his life, which he sacrificed, trying to fix his mistake. There's a difference between being heroic and being perfect.
Rip bicycle and ship. I just rebuilt my old 1998 diamondback bike. I beat the crap out of it as a young man and hope it holds out til my legs say I can't ride anymore.
@@theshapeexistsif you have any interest in mountain biking, consider buying a modern hardtail. The tech and design of mountain bikes has progressed significantly in even just the last 7 years.
Better to not make the mistake, especially when doing so is so easy, than have to try and fix it. Neither captain slowing down is negligence of the highest order.
@@bsauced For all that, though, some people prefer older technology, like my own preference for steel frames over "modern" suspension for street riding.
Your work is so full of backstories of many different people, your work is very personal. Many videos just tell a "forensic" version a story, full of cold facts and little of the people involved. Top Notch Job.....
The navigation procedures you observed like running at full speed in fog were unfortunately very commonplace before WW1 and would take several wrecks like Columbia, Titanic and others to be fully examined and changed. This lassitude would ultimately cost thousands of lives.
Ironically, during her final voyage in World War I, Lusitania DID slow down in fog on her final voyage, doing what Columbia should have, under Captain Turner's orders. A decision he was later called out for and which many people believe would have endangered Lusitania due to German military vessels in the area. A few minutes after the fog cleared, Lusitania was torpedoed by U-20. The one time the crew played it safe back then, and it got criticized as the wrong decision.
No matter how many stories like this I've heard my heart breaks every time. It's not possible to understand the terror these people went through unless you've experienced it I think.
Thank you for sharing these untold stories of the treacherous Pacific coast. I've spent most of my life in the northwest and never heard of this sinking. The fog can get really bad here and just as deadly as the craggy rocks that line the shelf. When a boat collision goes wrong it can go wrong really fast. Empress of Ireland immediately comes to mind. 8 minutes is not a lot of time at all to get off a boat through the bedlam and panic as passengers and crew are all scrambling to get off. It really is a matter of luck.
I live in Tacoma and have a collection of books written by Jim Gibbs a NW maritime historian. His books are packed with pictures and information on numerous wrecks from California to Alaska. I've been fortunate to have found 6 of his books in Goodwill, Value Village, other second hand stores. They are great to read and full of details about the ships, crews, passengers, the tragedies and rescues.
Found this very interesting. My gg-grand-uncle, George A Keller, lost his wife and 3 teenage daughters in this shipwreck. They were on a tour of the west coast sightseeing and visiting relatives in California, Oregon and Eastern Washington State. George and his son were not on the trip and so survived. Very sad.
This video is actually genuinely underated and why do somehow people both crew and passengers are actually so much better at surviving incidents like this on small ships then on those huge flagship?!? Well from what I see
I'm happy to see the steamers of the west coast, specifically California, get some attention. Another one I recommend is the Brother Johnathan that sank in 1865 just off the coast of Crescent City. It's a deeply interesting yet tragic tale of a paddle steamer that made history yet is completely forgotten about
@Sithdude78 I haven't been up in Crescent City in so long, plus I have a love for Norcal so to hear anyone talk about it would Literally just be cool, like oh, you can acknowledge the existence of Crescent City, Klamath, Eureka, Aracta, and etc... please sign me up lol (I know it's bout a hours drive between the 2 areas but you get the point)
@Uniquely.Mediocre that was the empty tanker that got torpedoed by a Japanese submarine a few months following Pearl Harbor, off the tip of Cape Mendocino and it drifted suspended to the mouth of Crescent City. There are recovered pieces monuments scattered in the city.
30 year Navy man. 25 years at sea on ships. Really appreciate the respect and research this channel gives to these maritime disasters and the history overall. Have you heard of the Disaster at Honda Point in 1923? Mass grounding of 7 Destroyers. It's an event that would fit in your channel for those that know the incredible power of the sea
@0:21 that footage of a taffrail log in use is pretty cool, I’ve never seen one actually working before…it spins a lot faster at the wheel than I expected it would.
Great coverage of a terrible event. Thank you for keeping the memories of those lost and those who did their best to help their fellow man during this disaster. Subscribing for more of this great content!
I can practically hear Newport's fog horn going off in the distance. For those who have never been to the PNW, the fog rolls in hard, fast, and thick. Couple that with sports boats still clipping at full throttle it gets rather dicey at times!
Id love to see you do a video on the SS Republic. Happened shortly after the American Civil War. It's a forgotten/ little known era of American history. AND it's cargo was treasure. At least in today's time lol.
Two of the Edison dynamos were put on display in the first class hallway for the sake of advertising her role in history. To my knowledge, sank with the SS Columbia. To this day, Columbia remains undiscovered. There was a minor attempt by NOAA under Dr. James Delgado to find her, but it mostly fell through. I was in on the information and they didn't want to publicize it for some reason. It almost resulted in the discovery of the SS Walla Walla. I've been reaching out for years to try and get someone to go out and find her. Best I've gotten were descendants of the survivors and victims reaching out. It was very touching. They thanked me for and I was glad to have provided them with information on their ancestry to a degree. I was the one that created the Wikipedia article, most of which was researched and fleshed out in 2013 and 2018 from newspaper archives and research journals. I wanted to restore recognition and attention to this forgotten technological wonder, beautiful ship and horrifying tragedy. The primary source, like your video, was Robert Belyk's book. (I highly recommend it by the way. Incredible detail on obscure shipwrecks that chill your spine.) That was where I'd first heard of Columbia when my mother gifted it to me during Middle School. I still own that book. My goal isn't for profit or ego inflating. Just to restore lost history.
Excellent as always. You're a great narrator. One thing I especially like is your distinguishing pictures or footage that is like the ship you're discussing from actual, in this case rare, pictures of the ship itself.
Never heard, of the 'SS Colombia'!! I love, learning about new ship disaster's, I'm not aware of☺️. Thanks👍!! You put out a good, a informative production.
The personal stories are wonderful, especially those of ordinary people, some very young, who never set out to be heroes and whose positions didn't require it. Perhaps you could do a video on these accidental heroes who would otherwise be forgotten.
Oh boy, I love a documentary about the Pacific NW, thank you! My man, you should really mention how terrifying crossing the Columbia River Bar was to people in this era. Notice all the mention of "steel and iron" on her advertisement? People were ****-scared of the Graveyard of the Pacific. They wanted to be in an iron boat, with STRONG engines. The tide at Astoria, dragging ships towards the sandbars is still terrifying, even today. It is the deadliest river bar of the world. Asking people to go from 'Frisco to Portland by boat - was a BIG ASK. I actually mention this ship in a ghost town historic article I wrote about Dundee, Oregon. (Henry Villard is a horrendous bull-in-a-china-shop tycoon/villain in the story of Oregon - wrecking everything he touched, but staying rich himself, of course. This ship was one of his purchase extravagances - right before the 1894 Great Depression. Anyway, people can look up how he leased the East Side railroad - just to destroy it, and destroyed the bridge over the Willamette project that would have made places like Gaston as wealthy as Beaverton today...anyway...) 5:56 - Then, record scratch: I'm sorry, what? How could she possibly carry 13 train engines, and 200 rail cars? (I checked the Wiki too, but this just doesn't seem right.) She's only 332 feet long, and not even 39 wide. While she's owned by a ship/rail company, she wasn't designed as a train ferry. So, I see no way they could have possibly loaded her with the equivalent of 13 trains with 15 rail cars behind them, _each._ Train ferries have open-ended fronts/rears with track on them, to load trains. Columbia has this not. I don't see how her cargo hold could even accommodate this load, even if loaded by crane. Were these things...disassembled? Seems really odd - to transport empty trains to the East Coast, around the tip of S. America...when you could just, well, send them on a relatively quick back-east trip by rail. The voyage used to take an entire year by sail...This is so weird. I'm wondering - if the article the wiki quotes, was printed with an error in the first place. Do you think it's odd, captain? ;) Please do more on ships of the Pacific NW! There are plenty of tragedies nobody has ever heard of...
It was never stated that the railroad cars were assembled. Maybe that's the answer? I always assumed the reason they were loaded on the Columbia was because OR&N was cutting costs by loading it onto their own ship.
Do modern passenger ships and cruise ships run their bulkheads up to the main deck? I have been on a number of navy ships and of course, they are designed to take these little blows. A 2700-ton destroyer of WW2 vintage would have easily survived a 7-foot hole in the side and at worst would have lost its steering. I would be interested in knowing what the internals are. For years whenever I look at one of those monster like the Disney cruise ship I think to myself, I don't want on that, it appears that if they got seriously holed they would just roll over and dive. At the same time, it seems impossible that ships that appear that dangerous are allowed to carry passengers unless there is some engineering that would save them.
Plenty of SOLAS engineering and design goes into modern cruise ships. From construction methods (block building and welding compared to skeleton and rivets) , better quality steel and other materials, double hull, fire retardant bulkheads, bulkheads that so extend to the highest levels and a myriad of other equipment and safety measures. Of course this is not infallible but it is always improving.
@@jameswg13 True, plus the fact that we "rarely" see large passenger ships sink with any loss of life. Now its more likely some drunk falls off the balcony or 50% of the passengers will catch some contagious infection! So they must be doing the ship engineering, along with better tech/communication, right.
@Panzer 948 tbf large ships do sink a lot least in terms of cargo vessels. The 70s to 90s especially were terrible for it from memory. However, they only have small crews. Even when cruise ships do sink luckily the loss of life is small if at all
@@jameswg13 I was reading about shipping on the Great Lakes and how those freighters were poorly maintained, overloaded, and ran hard through rough seas day after day. How many of those ships simply broke in two and sank is mind-boggling. Still, for every MS Estonia, thousands of ferries work safely every day. For every El Faro, hundreds of container ships sail AWAY from a hurricane.
My great great grandmother, Blanche Gordon, and her daughter, my great grandmother, Effie Gordon (10 years old), were on this ship. Blanche drowned but Effie barely survived as she was knocked unconscious in the explosion. A young girl kept her head above water until she came to. Your presentation of that horrible night is very well done. It’s haunting, but well done.
Two of them were. One is currently at The Henry Ford in Dearborn, Michigan, on display at Edison's laboratory in Greenfield Village. The Smithsonian neglects theirs and keeps it in storage. The other two generators were put on display in the first class main hall of Columbia after her 1895 refit and sank with the ship in 1907.
13:22 Definitely interested in learning more about steam schooners! Admittedly I've not looked into it too much, so I could be totally off base with this, but videos overviewing general types of ships strike me as being in short supply on RUclips, so this would be a helpful and unique piece of reference material!
Such a well told story. Thank you for this video. I hadn't heard of this disaster before. In the future if I cruise the west coast again I'll think of this sad story and the tragic loss of life.
That image of Captain Doran standing on the deck, raising both arms as the ship immediately sank and carrying him under, is going to stay with me. I think he was intelligent and honorable enough to know, should he step off that ship, his career and good reputation would be wrecked as well. The other captain seems more practical. Stepping out to see another large ship next to his must have been the shock of his life. I think he was judged a little harshly at the time because he was the one who was still alive.
Wow, I love hearing about PNW history. I worked on Mt Hood Railroad so hearing Oregon Railway and Navigation Company caught my eye. It’s tragic and I’m not making light of the lives lost but hearing a story about Rowena was interesting. I live on the Columbia River just up river from a place on the Columbia called Rowena, named after the Rowena Gap in the river. No relation I believe, it was named in 1880’s. It’s also near the Rowena Loops built for Model T’s and featured in many modern & luxury car commercials. Enjoyed your vid & format. Thanks
A great video presentation as always. Thank you so much for all the time you take in researching these stories to give viewers a fascinating presentation.
Lovely video! Quite a scary story but the "What are you doing man!?!" quote caught me off guard! P. S, you could make a video about steam powered schooners! I never knew that they existed. I knew mainly about the classic great lakes schooners such as the Rouse Simmons.
Wes Oleczewski has a good video here on youtube about Great Lakes lumber hookers or steambarges, small wooden vessels somewhat similar to the San Pedro except mostly smaller, generally less than 250 feet and built with the pilot house forward like later steel lake boats. However, additional video about this type of vessel would certainly be welcme
question: whilst I know you listed a number of archives as your video source, what is the actual source of your video footage for this (if you know)... i.e. what was the footage actually used for originally??? is it of thesame boat? was it a feature film? an earlier documentary on the topic? would be interesting to know, and I think, add to the overall quality to have it in the description! Thankyou
New to this this channel and was in the Navy years ago and loved beingat sea. What just baffles me is how incredibly ignorant it was to cruise around at high speeds even in those conditions. To me there is no excuse for not slowing down in the fog. Period. Mandated from above or not, no excuse...rest in peace to all who had to pay the price of ignorance. It's truly sad....
Thanks for another awesome video, Brad. I'd heard of the Columbia, but didn't know much about her until now. And thanks for mentioning British Columbia, even if it was an after though. 😄 Looking forward to your next video.
Another wonderful and interesting video. I don’t think I had known about this tragedy. Well done. Merry Christmas my friend. I hope that Santa fulfills all your wishes.
You are quite right to pronounce the schooner's name as San PEE-dro, despite that being far from the Spanish pronunciation, because the city for which it was named is always called PEE-dro, not PAY-dro. For support, see the great film Double Indemnity.
watching everything!!! Loving it all !! Thank you so much these videos really help my anxiety and depression tbh the voice you have is God given for this thank you for the beautiful content the internet is completely flooded with mindless videos that only hurt our minds, this kind of stuff I believe are true historical master peices . God bless you.
SS Columbia is one of these many forgotten disasters at sea, I can't understand that despite so many disasters before her, it happend again and again, killing these innocent people. The USA was so sloppy with their safety keeping and other things just to make money. RIP those who died in the SS Columbia disaster. You make amazing videos, always full of information, not found anywhere else. Keep up your good work and I am looking forward to your future videos!!
Very interesting video. I was surprised that you were talking about 'fog whistles'. I've never heard of 'fog whistles'. They sound like foghorns to me. A whistle suggests a very high-pitched sound, I think.
They said "fog whistles" because they'd be using steam whistles. Modern foghorns were invented around the time of this incident but weren't used at all in the US until about 1914 or so.
I love your videos so much! The music seems a little too loud though, I find myself having to turn it down, but then turn it up again when you're talking because it's too quiet.
Fantastic video as always!! Lots of great information and explanations. I love your story telling style. Keep up the great work :) you should cover the Atlantic sinking at some point.
Damn 8 minutes. Imagine putting on your live vest, getting to the lifeboat deck, AND getting into a boat in that short time. Oh and staying calm and level headed. Damn well impossible really.
I don’t think the wreck of SS Columbia has ever been discovered. Probably because no one has been searching for it. lol. Looks like the wreck may lie as deep as 3000 feet, but may be less deep if she foundered closer to shore. Such great content on this channel, as always. Cheers
@@MatthewAnderson707 Agreed. There are several others that I hope are found and explored before I arrive at my final destination: the SS Waratah, the MS Hans Hedtoft, and the SS Constitution, which sank while under tow to the breakers 700 nm north of Hawaii.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
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Huh, so you were first lol
I know it’s not a super well known boat but my grandma made it from the Netherlands to the USA on the HMS Veendam and it has a crazy history would you think about making a video about it for me? @BigOldBoats
Most definitely yes on the idea of a steam Schooner vid those are really cool! Lots of pics would be great too of course! Thank you in advance if you would so choose to produce such a vid!
That passive aggressive text @13:20 tho
Hi!!! My name is Brandy!! I have been researching this shipwreck for years after I discovered that my own family died in this shop wreck!! The keller family!! I believe they would be my great great (great?) grandmother!
So many disasters boil down to “owners pressured workers to do obviously dangerous things while themselves being far from any danger.”
Agreed
Just like a Healthcare Professional these days
Yep
The aviation industry calls the behaviour pilots (and ship crews as well, apparently) sometimes exhibit as a result of this pressure “Get-There-itis”. It’s caused so many plane crashes, it’s _ridiculous._
I’ve got news for companies who own and operate these vessels and engage in this sort of behaviour: ya can’t make a lot of money off your ships’ voyages or your planes’ flights if said ships and planes sink/crash/sometimes both after their crews make unsafe decisions because of the pressure you’re putting them under!
Murica
As a maritime historian for more years than I care to mention, I am very impressed with the clear, well-narrated, high production quality and sourcing of contemporary photographs and illustrations that make up the individual programmes within this series. This is truly one of the best sites of this particular genre on the web. The writing, editorial and content make this series both entertaining and educational. You may be justly proud of all your time and dedication. Believe me, it shows. Kudos!
As an amateur historian with no college degrees.
I absolutely love his videos
It's too bad someone like you doesn't do them or at least have involvement.
You sound very knowledgeable and well versed.
the fact the engineer did not leave his post might have meant he did things to prevent a larger sized explosion (of the boiler or other steam machinery)... if that's the case, he saved many a life by his actions... something, truly worth remembering!
That’s the thing I respect most about sailors, aircrew, really any sort of crew or operator. The ones who are willing to risk or lay down their lives to save others is incredible. Knowing that you could easily save yourself but refusing to do so in order to help others really goes above and beyond heroism.
@@digitaal_boog not me I'm the first off after helping others
That's the thing you have to come to terms with if you're a "naval engineer/machinist" your job is not only one of the most important, but in the event that your ship sinks, you're the least likely to survive since bot only does someone need to stay in the engineering spaces "to keep the lights on" so that evacuation and calls for help can be conducted in an orderly manner, but you're so far down into the bowels of the ship that things can (and likely will) go pear shaped before you have any hope of getting out.
Hats off to those lads, God blessed saints every one of them.
Doubtful. He was the 1st asst engineer and just joined the boat. Had there been something important like that to do the engineer himself would have stayed and made sure it was done instead of warning the others to not wait too long then going for his life preserver and abandoning his ship. Had the 1st engineer as well as the other men that failed to heed his warning died preventing some kind of disaster the engineer would have been crucified in the press. Since he wasn’t even mentioned when the blame was being passed around I can assume the men simply didn’t expect the ship to sink so quickly and lost their lives because of an assumption of having more time. Just a foolish mistake and the engineer should have made the lives of his subordinates a priority by ordering them to leave when he did. Instead of just giving them a simple warning.
@@jamesmcnaughton5092You're probably the first off, period.
I am starting to worry how relaxing I find your descriptive narration of maritime disasters.
😂
I also can’t imagine what impression an electrically lighted ship must have been like in 1880!
The circus coming to rural counties was likely the first time they saw electric lights
I have read in journals and papers that often people thought a house with electric lights were on fire they were so much brighter even with the primitive bulbs
Made me think how awful it must have been sailing for months by candle light.
@@michaelgallagher3640 or hurricane lamps, but they were the latest and greatest at the time
Must have been lit.
The speed of the sinking is horrifying. Thank you for sharing this sad story.
Absolutely mind-blowing that the captain would knowingly choose to continue sailing at full speed while in dense fog and knowing that there is another ship nearby, and neither ship knows where the other is or where it's going. Like...what kind of insanity is that?
Well... it actually does happen from time to time. When a person realizes that is doing some kind of nonsense, but cannot help doing it. And then sometimes can't explain, why. Despite the fact that often mentally absolutely healthy.
At such moments, of course, it is important to "break" yourself, and do what is necessary. Again, not everyone is obviously capable of this.
Perhaps this is indeed something like a slight short-term insanity... each of us, probably, at least once faced with something extremely inappropriate and outrageous creeping into the mind, or did (or vice versa, did not do, which led to) something is corrupted.
He would have gotten in serious trouble if he didn't keep the ship at full speed for the entire duration of the journey. That was the standard at the time, unfortunately.
@@bickyboo7789 Yeah, it's the same reason Titanic was sailing at full speed through an ice field. 1) Trans-Atlantic liners were held to tight schedules and their Masters couldn't just drop anchor and wait for ice to clear and 2) EVERYBODY was doing it, it was business as usual.
Absurd risky behavior. Schedule to keep deemed more important than safety.
Do they still do that crap?
@@Vidmr2407 I mean, this was also the era when half of your children would die of disease or malnutrition before the age of 10. And if they survived that, they'd probably go die in a war somewhere or be maimed in some industrial accident. Life sucked back then, who cares about risks?
I find it wild that in the wake of this disaster, the lighthouse commission constructed the Punta Gorda lighthouse south of the mouth of the Mattole River to help improve visibility. Punta Gorda was abandoned in 1946 and was evidently the only lighthouse in California abandoned before commercial electrification made it onsite. So a lighthouse that was constructed after a ship with a claim to fame of electricity itself never saw electrification. Anybody who hikes the Lost Coast Trail can visit it.
Imagine sailing full speed through the fog, hearing another ship multiple times and just going "meh, this is fine."
It ALWAYS amazes me that during inclement weather, those in charge don't simply slow down. If you do so on a road, it would make even more sense to do so where you can't stop on a dime.
You've obviously never watched Russian Dashcam Video compilations!
@@JeffKopis 🤣🤣🤣
Great video 👌 Your comment about the ship sinking in less time than the video's duration really resonated.... it's one thing to hear "8 minutes" but quite startling to have it put into such immediate context. I can't imagine being a passenger trying to find my way out of an unfamiliar environment in that short a time. RIP 🤍
I imagine most people weren't even sure of what was happening until it was too late.
But to the passengers, in the fear and confusion, it would have seemed to be both the blink of an eye AND an eternity at the same time.
Watching/listening to a "spooky shipwreck show" has become a part of my bedtime routine, and it wouldn't work without your chill delivery. Keep on keepin on!
This is a really beautifully made documentary - it really brings alive the time, a real sadness of the event and the bravery at a time when the Ottoman Empire, Second Empire Germany, Second Republic France and Austrian Empire still existed. It looks so modern sometimes but it still has this sort of haunting of almost pre-history. It's very much a liminal time.
I can understand, on a personal level, how this ship's old iron frame gave out after a collision: I've been through a similar experience. It was only 7 years ago, for example, that my 20-year-old bicycle gave out on me while climbing up a hill, when its old frame of cro-moly steel snapped right behind the headset. These things happen.
As for the captain, he definitely made a mistake on that fateful day, but he clearly spent the last minutes of his life, which he sacrificed, trying to fix his mistake. There's a difference between being heroic and being perfect.
Rip bicycle and ship. I just rebuilt my old 1998 diamondback bike. I beat the crap out of it as a young man and hope it holds out til my legs say I can't ride anymore.
@@theshapeexistsif you have any interest in mountain biking, consider buying a modern hardtail. The tech and design of mountain bikes has progressed significantly in even just the last 7 years.
Better to not make the mistake, especially when doing so is so easy, than have to try and fix it. Neither captain slowing down is negligence of the highest order.
@@bsauced For all that, though, some people prefer older technology, like my own preference for steel frames over "modern" suspension for street riding.
Your work is so full of backstories of many different people, your work is very personal. Many videos just tell a "forensic" version a story, full of cold facts and little of the people involved. Top Notch Job.....
The navigation procedures you observed like running at full speed in fog were unfortunately very commonplace before WW1 and would take several wrecks like Columbia, Titanic and others to be fully examined and changed. This lassitude would ultimately cost thousands of lives.
Oh well you live and you learn, unless you don't.
@@SofaKingShit or you die and others learn.
Lassitude, that’s a new one for me. Lassitude, hmm, much better than “delineate”.
Yes that is why Rule 19 of the Colreg exists.
Ironically, during her final voyage in World War I, Lusitania DID slow down in fog on her final voyage, doing what Columbia should have, under Captain Turner's orders. A decision he was later called out for and which many people believe would have endangered Lusitania due to German military vessels in the area. A few minutes after the fog cleared, Lusitania was torpedoed by U-20. The one time the crew played it safe back then, and it got criticized as the wrong decision.
No matter how many stories like this I've heard my heart breaks every time. It's not possible to understand the terror these people went through unless you've experienced it I think.
Thank you for sharing these untold stories of the treacherous Pacific coast. I've spent most of my life in the northwest and never heard of this sinking. The fog can get really bad here and just as deadly as the craggy rocks that line the shelf. When a boat collision goes wrong it can go wrong really fast. Empress of Ireland immediately comes to mind. 8 minutes is not a lot of time at all to get off a boat through the bedlam and panic as passengers and crew are all scrambling to get off. It really is a matter of luck.
I live in Tacoma and have a collection of books written by Jim Gibbs a NW maritime historian. His books are packed with pictures and information on numerous wrecks from California to Alaska. I've been fortunate to have found 6 of his books in Goodwill, Value Village, other second hand stores. They are great to read and full of details about the ships, crews, passengers, the tragedies and rescues.
Found this very interesting. My gg-grand-uncle, George A Keller, lost his wife and 3 teenage daughters in this shipwreck. They were on a tour of the west coast sightseeing and visiting relatives in California, Oregon and Eastern Washington State. George and his son were not on the trip and so survived. Very sad.
This video is actually genuinely underated and why do somehow people both crew and passengers are actually so much better at surviving incidents like this on small ships then on those huge flagship?!?
Well from what I see
Happy holidays crew and Mike🎉
I'm happy to see the steamers of the west coast, specifically California, get some attention. Another one I recommend is the Brother Johnathan that sank in 1865 just off the coast of Crescent City. It's a deeply interesting yet tragic tale of a paddle steamer that made history yet is completely forgotten about
Having lived in crescent city I'd love to hear a video talk about it. Only so much you can gleam from local telling of the tale.
@Sithdude78 I haven't been up in Crescent City in so long, plus I have a love for Norcal so to hear anyone talk about it would Literally just be cool, like oh, you can acknowledge the existence of Crescent City, Klamath, Eureka, Aracta, and etc... please sign me up lol (I know it's bout a hours drive between the 2 areas but you get the point)
Along with the tanker Emidio and how its suspended wreckage almost blocked the harbor
@James Bradas I haven't heard of that one but sounds interesting regardless
@Uniquely.Mediocre that was the empty tanker that got torpedoed by a Japanese submarine a few months following Pearl Harbor, off the tip of Cape Mendocino and it drifted suspended to the mouth of Crescent City. There are recovered pieces monuments scattered in the city.
30 year Navy man. 25 years at sea on ships. Really appreciate the respect and research this channel gives to these maritime disasters and the history overall. Have you heard of the Disaster at Honda Point in 1923? Mass grounding of 7 Destroyers. It's an event that would fit in your channel for those that know the incredible power of the sea
The Honda Point Disaster is a fascinating story with a lot of aspects to it.
@0:21 that footage of a taffrail log in use is pretty cool, I’ve never seen one actually working before…it spins a lot faster at the wheel than I expected it would.
Great coverage of a terrible event. Thank you for keeping the memories of those lost and those who did their best to help their fellow man during this disaster. Subscribing for more of this great content!
I can practically hear Newport's fog horn going off in the distance. For those who have never been to the PNW, the fog rolls in hard, fast, and thick. Couple that with sports boats still clipping at full throttle it gets rather dicey at times!
You have quite the interesting channel here. Thanks for your good work.
Id love to see you do a video on the SS Republic. Happened shortly after the American Civil War. It's a forgotten/ little known era of American history. AND it's cargo was treasure. At least in today's time lol.
Two of the Edison dynamos were put on display in the first class hallway for the sake of advertising her role in history. To my knowledge, sank with the SS Columbia. To this day, Columbia remains undiscovered.
There was a minor attempt by NOAA under Dr. James Delgado to find her, but it mostly fell through. I was in on the information and they didn't want to publicize it for some reason. It almost resulted in the discovery of the SS Walla Walla. I've been reaching out for years to try and get someone to go out and find her. Best I've gotten were descendants of the survivors and victims reaching out. It was very touching. They thanked me for and I was glad to have provided them with information on their ancestry to a degree.
I was the one that created the Wikipedia article, most of which was researched and fleshed out in 2013 and 2018 from newspaper archives and research journals. I wanted to restore recognition and attention to this forgotten technological wonder, beautiful ship and horrifying tragedy.
The primary source, like your video, was Robert Belyk's book. (I highly recommend it by the way. Incredible detail on obscure shipwrecks that chill your spine.) That was where I'd first heard of Columbia when my mother gifted it to me during Middle School. I still own that book.
My goal isn't for profit or ego inflating. Just to restore lost history.
Thank you Mathew for your devotion and hard work. Sorry it seems to be largely unacknowledged ....such is the World we live in.
I’m a descendent of the Keller family who lost alma, Effie, grace and eh
Brilliant video! I love that you chose such an exciting topic! You never disappoint Big Old Boats, especially if it is a shipwreck story!
Excellent as always. You're a great narrator. One thing I especially like is your distinguishing pictures or footage that is like the ship you're discussing from actual, in this case rare, pictures of the ship itself.
Never heard, of the 'SS Colombia'!! I love, learning about new ship disaster's, I'm not aware of☺️. Thanks👍!! You put out a good, a informative production.
I am always so grateful to stumble across a rare gem of a channel. Fantastic content and narration ❤
addicted to these old boat vids!
The personal stories are wonderful, especially those of ordinary people, some very young, who never set out to be heroes and whose positions didn't require it. Perhaps you could do a video on these accidental heroes who would otherwise be forgotten.
Oh boy, I love a documentary about the Pacific NW, thank you! My man, you should really mention how terrifying crossing the Columbia River Bar was to people in this era. Notice all the mention of "steel and iron" on her advertisement? People were ****-scared of the Graveyard of the Pacific. They wanted to be in an iron boat, with STRONG engines. The tide at Astoria, dragging ships towards the sandbars is still terrifying, even today. It is the deadliest river bar of the world. Asking people to go from 'Frisco to Portland by boat - was a BIG ASK.
I actually mention this ship in a ghost town historic article I wrote about Dundee, Oregon. (Henry Villard is a horrendous bull-in-a-china-shop tycoon/villain in the story of Oregon - wrecking everything he touched, but staying rich himself, of course. This ship was one of his purchase extravagances - right before the 1894 Great Depression. Anyway, people can look up how he leased the East Side railroad - just to destroy it, and destroyed the bridge over the Willamette project that would have made places like Gaston as wealthy as Beaverton today...anyway...)
5:56 - Then, record scratch: I'm sorry, what? How could she possibly carry 13 train engines, and 200 rail cars? (I checked the Wiki too, but this just doesn't seem right.)
She's only 332 feet long, and not even 39 wide. While she's owned by a ship/rail company, she wasn't designed as a train ferry. So, I see no way they could have possibly loaded her with the equivalent of 13 trains with 15 rail cars behind them, _each._ Train ferries have open-ended fronts/rears with track on them, to load trains. Columbia has this not. I don't see how her cargo hold could even accommodate this load, even if loaded by crane. Were these things...disassembled?
Seems really odd - to transport empty trains to the East Coast, around the tip of S. America...when you could just, well, send them on a relatively quick back-east trip by rail. The voyage used to take an entire year by sail...This is so weird. I'm wondering - if the article the wiki quotes, was printed with an error in the first place.
Do you think it's odd, captain? ;) Please do more on ships of the Pacific NW! There are plenty of tragedies nobody has ever heard of...
It was never stated that the railroad cars were assembled. Maybe that's the answer? I always assumed the reason they were loaded on the Columbia was because OR&N was cutting costs by loading it onto their own ship.
I always appreciate the depth of your research, and the well-selected graphics and clips. Happy holidays.
RIP to the fallen, great and informitive video Big Old Boats.
Do modern passenger ships and cruise ships run their bulkheads up to the main deck? I have been on a number of navy ships and of course, they are designed to take these little blows. A 2700-ton destroyer of WW2 vintage would have easily survived a 7-foot hole in the side and at worst would have lost its steering. I would be interested in knowing what the internals are. For years whenever I look at one of those monster like the Disney cruise ship I think to myself, I don't want on that, it appears that if they got seriously holed they would just roll over and dive. At the same time, it seems impossible that ships that appear that dangerous are allowed to carry passengers unless there is some engineering that would save them.
Plenty of SOLAS engineering and design goes into modern cruise ships. From construction methods (block building and welding compared to skeleton and rivets) , better quality steel and other materials, double hull, fire retardant bulkheads, bulkheads that so extend to the highest levels and a myriad of other equipment and safety measures. Of course this is not infallible but it is always improving.
@@jameswg13 True, plus the fact that we "rarely" see large passenger ships sink with any loss of life. Now its more likely some drunk falls off the balcony or 50% of the passengers will catch some contagious infection! So they must be doing the ship engineering, along with better tech/communication, right.
@Panzer 948 tbf large ships do sink a lot least in terms of cargo vessels. The 70s to 90s especially were terrible for it from memory.
However, they only have small crews.
Even when cruise ships do sink luckily the loss of life is small if at all
@@jameswg13 I was reading about shipping on the Great Lakes and how those freighters were poorly maintained, overloaded, and ran hard through rough seas day after day. How many of those ships simply broke in two and sank is mind-boggling. Still, for every MS Estonia, thousands of ferries work safely every day. For every El Faro, hundreds of container ships sail AWAY from a hurricane.
2700 ton destroyer? All 1 of them?!
Thanks!
Thank you!!
I appreciate you're thorough research! Thank you from Seattle!
My great great grandmother, Blanche Gordon, and her daughter, my great grandmother, Effie Gordon (10 years old), were on this ship. Blanche drowned but Effie barely survived as she was knocked unconscious in the explosion. A young girl kept her head above water until she came to. Your presentation of that horrible night is very well done. It’s haunting, but well done.
7:28 I’m surprised they were donated to a museum. Historical preservation was NOT something people cared much about back then (RIP Olympic)
Two of them were. One is currently at The Henry Ford in Dearborn, Michigan, on display at Edison's laboratory in Greenfield Village. The Smithsonian neglects theirs and keeps it in storage. The other two generators were put on display in the first class main hall of Columbia after her 1895 refit and sank with the ship in 1907.
Sir your final comment says it all, bless all those lost souls!!!🙏😢🚢
13:22 Definitely interested in learning more about steam schooners! Admittedly I've not looked into it too much, so I could be totally off base with this, but videos overviewing general types of ships strike me as being in short supply on RUclips, so this would be a helpful and unique piece of reference material!
Well bud, you always get a like from me as soon as the video starts, because your content is always on point.
A video on steam schooners would be great!
Thank you so much for doing this video! It was fantastic to finally see the old girl get a proper video telling the story of her existence for once.
I hope you cover the Eastland (hometown tragedy) or the carpathia. Or the queen Mary incident.
14:29 jeez that's the calmest word that i have everseen in this situation
This big boat lore is so addictive ….
My favorite RUclips Chanel
Great vlog as always! I do not understand who this small ship was able to carry 13 steam locos and 200 rail cars!
A new Big Old Boats video dropping is the best Xmas gift!
Such a well told story. Thank you for this video. I hadn't heard of this disaster before. In the future if I cruise the west coast again I'll think of this sad story and the tragic loss of life.
Another great video about an incident I didn't know about. Happy Holidays and don't forget to watch the Poseidon Adventure on New Year's Eve.
That image of Captain Doran standing on the deck, raising both arms as the ship immediately sank and carrying him under, is going to stay with me. I think he was intelligent and honorable enough to know, should he step off that ship, his career and good reputation would be wrecked as well. The other captain seems more practical. Stepping out to see another large ship next to his must have been the shock of his life. I think he was judged a little harshly at the time because he was the one who was still alive.
My family was mentioned in this video as 4 who didn’t survive! The keller family
Wow, I love hearing about PNW history. I worked on Mt Hood Railroad so hearing Oregon Railway and Navigation Company caught my eye.
It’s tragic and I’m not making light of the lives lost but hearing a story about Rowena was interesting.
I live on the Columbia River just up river from a place on the Columbia called Rowena, named after the Rowena Gap in the river. No relation I believe, it was named in 1880’s.
It’s also near the Rowena Loops built for Model T’s and featured in many modern & luxury car commercials.
Enjoyed your vid & format. Thanks
Incredible channel , keep up the great work !! . You've got a new subscriber .
Thank you and welcome aboard!
A great video presentation as always. Thank you so much for all the time you take in researching these stories to give viewers a fascinating presentation.
Lovely video! Quite a scary story but the "What are you doing man!?!" quote caught me off guard!
P. S, you could make a video about steam powered schooners! I never knew that they existed. I knew mainly about the classic great lakes schooners such as the Rouse Simmons.
Wes Oleczewski has a good video here on youtube about Great Lakes lumber hookers or steambarges, small wooden vessels somewhat similar to the San Pedro except mostly smaller, generally less than 250 feet and built with the pilot house forward like later steel lake boats. However, additional video about this type of vessel would certainly be welcme
Thank you Bradley! So much great research and excellent narration. I really appreciate everything you do!
Thank you for the video. Merry Xmas
Your videos make me cry every time, and you just made me cry on Christmas. 🥺
question: whilst I know you listed a number of archives as your video source, what is the actual source of your video footage for this (if you know)... i.e. what was the footage actually used for originally??? is it of thesame boat? was it a feature film? an earlier documentary on the topic?
would be interesting to know, and I think, add to the overall quality to have it in the description!
Thankyou
I’d also love to know as my family died in this accident!
Love all these documentaries. Thanks for bringing me new shipwrecks to learn about. 🎉🎉
Once again, a great video. I hadn’t heard of the Columbia before.
Admit I’m a newbie to this channel, but I really enjoy your videos! Keep ‘em coming in 2023!
I think the channel is a newbie to YT
New to this this channel and was in the Navy years ago and loved beingat sea. What just baffles me is how incredibly ignorant it was to cruise around at high speeds even in those conditions. To me there is no excuse for not slowing down in the fog. Period. Mandated from above or not, no excuse...rest in peace to all who had to pay the price of ignorance. It's truly sad....
Recently discovered this channel and binging all these videos! Love
Thanks for another awesome video, Brad. I'd heard of the Columbia, but didn't know much about her until now. And thanks for mentioning British Columbia, even if it was an after though. 😄 Looking forward to your next video.
Another wonderful and interesting video. I don’t think I had known about this tragedy. Well done. Merry Christmas my friend. I hope that Santa fulfills all your wishes.
You are quite right to pronounce the schooner's name as San PEE-dro, despite that being far from the Spanish pronunciation, because the city for which it was named is always called PEE-dro, not PAY-dro. For support, see the great film Double Indemnity.
There's a town in Ohio called Pedro, and pronounced the same way.
Went through a town called Rio Grande.... Pronounced Rye-o Grand. Lol
I live near SanPedro so found this besides tragic, interesting. RIP to all who ddn't make it.
Good work
I'm Hispanic and I get a huge kick out of hearing each time you said "San PEEDRO"! 👍🤣🙂
Great video.
San 'Peedro' is the correct pronunciation for the California town and the ship named after it.
These Captains and their egos. My Condolences to the lost and their families.
watching everything!!! Loving it all !! Thank you so much these videos really help my anxiety and depression tbh the voice you have is God given for this thank you for the beautiful content the internet is completely flooded with mindless videos that only hurt our minds, this kind of stuff I believe are true historical master peices . God bless you.
P.s. do you think lake superior should be considered a lake or a sea ?
RIP to everyone lost. I feel especially sad because Decatur,Illinois is only an hour from me.
God this channel is so good. Thank you so much for all you do!!
Incredible story!
This is a really interesting story im surprised i haven't heard of this before
Love your videos, keep on keepin on
Decatur IL that's a very small town ! I live nearby and it's amazing to learn about heros born near you
How you're only at 53k subs is a travesty. The quality of your videos is incredible.
Brilliant episode .
SS Columbia is one of these many forgotten disasters at sea, I can't understand that despite so many disasters before her, it happend again and again, killing these innocent people. The USA was so sloppy with their safety keeping and other things just to make money. RIP those who died in the SS Columbia disaster.
You make amazing videos, always full of information, not found anywhere else. Keep up your good work and I am looking forward to your future videos!!
Very interesting video. I was surprised that you were talking about 'fog whistles'. I've never heard of 'fog whistles'. They sound like foghorns to me. A whistle suggests a very high-pitched sound, I think.
They said "fog whistles" because they'd be using steam whistles. Modern foghorns were invented around the time of this incident but weren't used at all in the US until about 1914 or so.
@@AXMCL Ok. Thank you.
I love your videos so much! The music seems a little too loud though, I find myself having to turn it down, but then turn it up again when you're talking because it's too quiet.
Fantastic video as always!! Lots of great information and explanations. I love your story telling style. Keep up the great work :) you should cover the Atlantic sinking at some point.
As always, great video.
Damn 8 minutes. Imagine putting on your live vest, getting to the lifeboat deck, AND getting into a boat in that short time. Oh and staying calm and level headed. Damn well impossible really.
I'm amazed that many people survived, given the circumstances.
More survived after the an explosion underwater pushed the back to the top. I lost 4 members of my family (mentioned at 22m (keller family)
I don’t think the wreck of SS Columbia has ever been discovered. Probably because no one has been searching for it. lol. Looks like the wreck may lie as deep as 3000 feet, but may be less deep if she foundered closer to shore. Such great content on this channel, as always. Cheers
I'm hoping someone tries to find her at some point.
@@MatthewAnderson707 Agreed. There are several others that I hope are found and explored before I arrive at my final destination: the SS Waratah, the MS Hans Hedtoft, and the SS Constitution, which sank while under tow to the breakers 700 nm north of Hawaii.
Thank you for the work you do, this is a shipwreck I haven't seen much coverage of.
This is just so baffling. Both ships hear the other's whistle, both captains think about it for a second and go "Nah, its fine. Full steam ahead!"
This is an excellent video! Thank you!
Great Video! I hope you had a Great Christmas and I wish you Happy New Year!!!
Best maritime tales chanel! (Don't tell our friend Mike Brady)
Merry Christmas B. O. B., hope you are having a good time today with your family and friends,🎄🕊️❄️🎁👍🍻😊