Nowhere to Go: The Loss of Third Places
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- As more and more disdain forms towards young people's usage of social media, a growing campaign of pushback seeks to turn our concern toward the spaces we occupy in the real world--namely, how much lonelier and costlier they are becoming at the hands of capitalist urbanization.
briefly featuring @FinntasticMrFox as Baudelaire
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Bibliography
Margaret Osborne (2023). “An ‘Epidemic’ of Loneliness Threatens Health of Americans, Surgeon General Says”. www.smithsonia...
J. Summers, V. Acovino, C. Intagliata, P. Wood (2023). “America has a loneliness epidemic. Here are 6 steps to address it”. www.npr.org/20...
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (2023). “New Surgeon General Advisory Raises Alarm about the Devastating Impact of the Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation in the United States”. www.hhs.gov/ab...
U.S. Public Health Service (2023). “Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation”. www.hhs.gov/si...
Ray Oldenburg (1989). “The Great Good Place”
TikTok by theeldestgenz: www.tiktok.com...
School-to-Prison Pipeline graphic by ACLU: www.aclu.org/i...
Ileana Garnand (2023). “‘Young people are being harmed’: the effect of anti-trans legislation” publicintegrit...
Avery Hartmans (2023). “Teen bans on the rise: malls, theme parks, and even a Chick-fil-A are requiring chaperones to stop rowdy minors”. www.businessin...
Knott’s and Kings Island’s new chaperone policies: www.knotts.com... www.visitkings...
Eric Liu quote taken from NPR’s Morning Edition (2023). “Why the U.S. surgeon general says feeling lonely could lead to an early death” www.npr.org/20...
David Harvey (2003). “The Right to the City”. davidharvey.or...
Jordan G. Teicher (2014). “The Glories of 19th-Century Paris”. slate.com/cult...
Brent Cebul (2020). “Urban Renewal Meant N**ro Removal”. www.laprogress...
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Lisa Hagen (2023). “How law enforcement is promoting a troubling documentary about 's**tortion'”. www.nhpr.org/2...
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Rebecca Burns (2016). “Sim City and the Worst Ways to End Homelessness”. inthesetimes.c...
Ashish Valentine (2020). “'The Wrong Complexion For Protection.' How Race Shaped America's Roadways And Cities”. www.npr.org/20...
James Baldwin clip about urban renewal: • Urban Renewal...Means ...
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Retro Stripes Monitor Screen Video by Free Stock Footage Archive: freestockfoota...
Clips featured in the intro: “The Nanny”, “Hey Arnold!”, “Xanadu” (1980), “Saturday Night Fever” (1977), “Grease” (1978), “Back to the Future” (1985)
Teenagers were kicked out of malls and the malls died. Teenagers used to have teen dance nights and teen clubs now that no longer exists. We’ve installed curfews for youth and kick people out of parks at dark. We’ve criminalized being a kid on a bicycle outside a convenience store. We’ve instituted skateboarding and rollerblading bans. We’ve kicked kids out of coffeehouses and restricted access to live music venues.
all to what end
And suddenly child labor is on the rise... Hmm...
When were teens kicked out
@@adenm8963 I guess the better term for it would be "teens who looked to be anything but extremely obedient and not-in-control were kicked out [or worse: teens who weren't upper middle-class white going to the mall together with their white heterosexual mother and father. A 90s classic]". Basically, if you had any outward sense of independence as a teen + a desire to stay at a mall for socialization, you'd be kicked out because the mall authorities would suspect you were either a thief or there to wreak havoc. Or you were black, 'exotic', mixed-race, or just had a 'different' face and didn't wear fancy clothes.
@@hamingnu6610 How do you kick people out who haven't legally done anything wrong?
PLEASE visit your public library!!! As librarians we are actively fighting to maintain third spaces with free wifi, bathrooms, places to sit, books, and information. Most now have non-quiet areas to spend time playing games or talk. We are overworked and underpaid but we're here because we beleive our communities deserve freedom of information and spaces where you don't have to pay to exist.
The best way to support us is to use our services as it shows that we are still worth funding. I love the friendships and connections I see built among frequent library users, and most of us love to interact with you and help you access what you need.❤
I love the library. I have such fond memories
Mine is only open 3 days a week, one of which is a half day on a Saturday. It's really just not feasible for me to go as a full time worker and it kills me as I used to go all the time when I was younger :(
Recently I had to take a sketchy road trip and live out of my car for a week in Alabama. The thing is, the librarians and their library was the mvp for letting me just go into the quiet room, read, chill, make coffee, and studying for an important test that’s changed my life. Libraries are the most valuable buildings to me for reasons like this.
Recently moved to beaverton oregon for the first time, and ive been using the library (actually, i've been visiting ALL the portland metro area libraries and using their facilities) a whole lot. always wanted a library but my hometown branch was underfunded and unsafe to access. it's a blessing to live in this state where the libraries get at least some funding.
1 homeless 2 leftist books 3 y’all closed for the germ
One of the worst parts of being a teacher in Philly is when it’s a beautiful sunny day and I ask my students if they will play outside after school and the majority mention how they can’t play outside due to too many shootings. And the nearest park is deemed the Cigarette park off of the cigarette butts and trash all around. It’s no wonder my students were chronically online.
And one of the most beautiful things I love about how the young generation builds community is through dance. Recess is full of dance battles, dance circles and I can just imagine how awesome it would be if these kids had a third place free of charge they could just hang out, play music and dance their little hearts out.
Sounds like we could really use active, central community centres, as giving people a place to talk and dance was a huge feature of them.
May be hard to bring them back due to geography but...
I'd say it's worth it.
I often wish I had the power to just... force these things into existence sometimes
...
damn.
@@alicealysiain the UK we used to have a decent amount of community and youth centres, but then in 2010 the government cut funding for them all and very few exist now. So whenever I hear people complain about kids not doing anything or hanging about in public I always get really annoyed because we actually had the solution, and then got rid of it. Of course the people complaining are also always the people that voted for the government that cut the funding
we had the same issues in the 90s in la. It angers me to see this hasn't been improved upon.
@@finndineen5491 classic tory "lets make everyone elses lives worse" moment
@@finndineen5491 underfunding ALL the social services so they can get bribed by private companies to come in and "save the day" with for profit work... So gross.
There’s literally nothing for young people to do anymore. I noticed over the summer that they’re really no free summer programs, no social clubs and where I lived wasn’t even walkable for them to go to the mall. It’s extremely sad, and hinders their social skills so badly. Parents are too busy working to even interact with them.
i have divorced parents and trying to schedule hangouts in the summer was horrible. i sat in my room all day and did nothing. both parents worked all day. i didn’t want to rot in my room but i couldn’t go anywhere in my neighborhood.
the sad part is that divorce rates are through the roof in the US @@tootnfart
@@tootnfart If your parents are comfortable with it, maybe a friend's parents could pick you up & let you hang out at their house. You can also play games and video chat with your friends online.
@@miriamrobarts they all live in the same neighborhood or a neighboring neighborhood (the only other one that lives outside the neighborhood besides me) and its literally on the opposite side of town from my dads house. my moms is closer but im never there when they can hang out and they tend to ask in very short notice which is really annoying
edit: ok so all these friends left me out (pov my average friend group experience)
@@tootnfart Why wait until they ask you? You could be the one to suggest getting together.
You can also let your friends know you need more time in advance to make plans.
Also, it's not summer now. You could plan to do something right after school, so you could ride home with a friend & you'd only need a ride home afterward, or you parent could pick you up.
Make friends with their parents & other family members and always be polite & express gratitude, and their parents might be willing to go out of their way for you.
Also, have you seen anyone in your neighborhood who you could get to know? Maybe they could be a good friend.
When you are optimistic & think creatively, you can find solutions.
Good luck!
If anyone wonders why shopping malls are empty husks, it's not just rising prices and online stores. So many of these places upped their "security" and actively approached anyone just hanging out and not shopping hard enough (i.e. teenagers) to make them feel unwelcome, and it worked. Many stores even put in these devices that put out high pitched tones that adults typically can't hear, but make teens uncomfortable and give them headaches.
reminds me of being 12 years old and doing a scavenger hunt at the mall for a friend's birthday party and being kicked out of Macy's and escorted out with a security guard for asking a worker where the bow ties were. I haven't spent any money at Macy's since then bc treating a group of 12 year old girls that way was so inappropriate and left me really scared to do a lot of things as a teenager.
It’s so sad cuz I remember as a teen one of my favorite activities to do with my mom was “mall walking” literally just waking up early to go walk around the mall. Didn’t have to buy anything, just walking around to take it in and then take breaks by the fountain.
It’s horrible that they would even intentionally use sounds to hurt teen’s heads. It’s so sad. Malls were such a fun third place…
Do you have a source for the high pitched teen sounds?
@@wadecarefully google "The Mosquito Alarm"
I’d like to know about these weird noises, too!
This reminds me of growing up homeschooled. Mom: “You’re always on the computer, I’m concerned.” Me: “I’m on the computer because I literally don’t have anywhere to go.” Overuse of social media is a symptom, not the problem.
Facts, just facts
Too accurate
In that instance yes it's a symptom. There is instances of addiction to social media preventing people from living. Neither invalidates the other and both can present in a person. Addiction from overindulgence started in a time of isolation is a prime example and harder to treat.
If you live in a rural area that makes sense. I live in a city surrounded by a large metropolitan area filled with places to go and there are people who just sit at home and stare at their computer/phone or play video games all of the time. Part of the reason the Rona lockdowns were so easily accepted is that so many people lives were unchanged by being forbidden to go out and associate with other people. Now that I think about it, losers definitely drove the lockdowns.
Very well put!
SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL LIBRARIES!!! find out what programs they host weekly/monthly, use the free wifi, enjoy the books! tutor students after school, read to toddlers in the children’s section, talk to senior citizens! i feel like libraries are so overlooked by leftists, they’re one of the only remaining community spaces.
They are probably overlooked since (at least in my city) they are directly operated by the government.
Yes! My local library is usually totally empty but I know they do put on little knitting and reading groups. It's a good place to interact with people in different age groups too (although we did get kicked out of a knitting group once because they didn't want children to "change the group dynamics" despite the fact that all the nice old ladies were super happy to meet us, and we were all knitting together just fine). It is really sad how society is obsessed with separating people of different ages, when it can be so valuable.
@@mhenderson7673 aw, that's so sad! as a teenage girl some of my favorite friendships have been with old women. they're afraid of how we could band together 🧶...
as a man and queer man at that, i would get accused of some gnarly shit for doing anything for kids even if it is out in the open where everyone can see what's actually happening
@@sycration and it's free
Its not just teens being affected by all this. In my neighbourhood, in the last decade, we've lost three pubs, two churches, a library, a community centre, a post office and a swimming pool. 50% of the local stores are boarded up. Nothing has replaced them. There are no third places here for adults either.
I agree. I’m in my early 30s, and I have very few places to go to even meet people yet alone hang out/date. It’s so frustrating because I’d love to meet people, but I just don’t know where to go to do that. It’s so much worse now compared to pre-Covid. So many local/small businesses and community spaces closed permanently and nothing has replaced them.
My pre-teen niece asked me where she can hang out with her friends for free. The only things we could come up with were the park, the library, and my house. She was so frustrated that I ended up just paying for her and her friends to hang out at the local mall. Even then, I had to be within so many yards of them or they would have been kicked out by security. I figured out the sweet spot of giving them enough space to be independent while still being close in case anything happened.
@@APink176 Your free ideas were good ones, and it was nice of you to offer to host get togethers! It was kind of you to treat them to a mall outing. I think your niece could learn to be more creative & optimistic (and appreciative).
What's wrong with your house or the park (other than bad weather)?
They could do art projects, bake cookies, cook dinners, do hairstyling or nail painting, dance parties, play games, watch movies, write little plays, do something nice for the neighbors, etc.
@@miriamrobarts those are great ideas!
At this rate. The only third place left is crime and murder
@@APink176 Wait, since when do people have to pay to go to a mall?! Did I miss something from not living in the US for a long time?
Do you know what used to be the ultimate third place?
The street.
Loitering is currently considered a crime.
I was born in 95, as a kid we played all around the streets in my neighborhood (and it wasn't the safest place 😅)
Wow. This opened my eyes. When I was a kid in Spain, I went to the streets and made friends there. If I wasn’t in my house or at school, I was outside. I also saw the elderly sitting at benches outside, perhaps making friends! I think the street as a third place is great for kids/teenagers and the elderly; I never saw adults making friends in the street but ofc I could be wrong
You made me realise something very important. Thank you
That's really crazy, now that we think of it. The fact that ' no loitering' is seen as such a standard requirement means that a typical establishment is reliably justified in being wary of a large enough group of people loitering, which itself means that people want to loiter (or the better term for it; hang out without having to do anything in particular) but aren't given any other loitering-friendly places to do so.
I'm not sure whether there are any studies of this, but I also have a feeling that the common nature of 'no loitering' practices has more of a stem in anti-homelessness rather than stuff like actually being worried about people staying too long in your establishment, for example.
I get that many of these places with 'no loitering' are private establishments, but I guess what I'm saying is: if loiterers go to private establishments so much that it becomes a problem, then why don't they go to public establishments instead? Oh, yeah. 'Cuz the Western world hates public centers for people. It's quite sad.
@@idrk1507You made me realise too. All these are going away at break neck speeds. Like, it was there for us as millennials. It's not there for gen z or gen alpha. 😶
Also, another reason is the goddamn heat. We would be playing outside as kids in the sun all day. But now, I don't wanna even step out in the sun. Forget about playing. I do all my errands in the evening.
It’s hard for it not to be when we have shootings every 5mins and children/teens are all in gangs
My friends had one of our birthdays' gift exchange in a parking lot. There weren't any benches, or any stores we could sit in- because the one coffee shop nearby had closed early, and the nearest park was 30 minutes away.
Then we had our secret santa gift exchange in a parking lot. It was an industrial district, where all of the stores were too small to sit in- or were giant factories and storage facilities we weren't allowed to be around. We didn't see any other people, it was just cars. Felt like a liminal space.
Then we had another birthday, but planned it out to end up at a park. We had a stranger sitting on one of the tables next to ours (despite all of the other 5 being empty), where she sat and stared at us until we pulled out our fnaf boardgame. There was also no proper lighting (it was winter, it gets dark at 7pm), and one of us had to get up and move around the automated lamp every 5 minutes or be left to play in the pitch-black. It didn't even light up the area that well.
It feels like nothing is built for people anymore. The cheapest, easiest-to-manufacture & mass produce things are what are prioritized, and it's always at the expense of the people using those spaces.
Don't you have homes or restaurants/bars nearby? When I want to hang out with my friends and don't need to do anything specific, we just all meet up at someone's house or at a bar nearby.
The point is that not everyone has a spacious, safe and friendly home, within reasonable distance, or access to transportation, or the money to stay a while at restaurants and bars, which may also have age restricted entry and/or require accompanying parents, who may not be available or willing etc.
It all happened during the 1980s is when Reagan shipped all those manufacturing companies to go International and established foreign suppliers to go to the Chinese Market And Economy for cheaper labor.
Nowadays all they care about is mass production and mass distribution of items for a cheaper price. That is why so many teenagers rarely go to shopping malls anymore. Who needs them if we have SHEIN and Temu?
We have Amazon to take care of our socialization and shopping needs. Many older adults I know love to complain about our age group late teens (17-23) to early twenties being stuck at home too often and not going out that much. And being addicted to the computers, cell phone and video games. We have Reddit, Discord and Instagram plus TikTok. What is the point if we can start our own group chats and communities there. Without going out in person.
They assume our social development and social skills are stunted and we are socially anxious and isolated due to a lack of safe “third” spaces.
One time, an older couple saw a group of young adults from the ages of (18-25) hanging out in the mall and called the police on them for just acting silly, goofy and just being YOUNG!
Smh the older generations can be so entitled and out of touch with reality in the current society we are growing up in.
Is the problem in third places or in the impoverishment of the population? I heard in this video not about the lack of different places, but about the fact that they are all too expensive.
@@Anna_Yasmin it’s both really. in my town there is nothing to do but drink, shop, and eat. i don’t drink, am super picky of what i wear, and am on a diet :). pain
Adults: "these darn kids loitering around with their skateboards!"
Also adults: "why don't teens meet outside like we used to??"
As an adult who just started learning to skateboard, this made me laugh. XD
Bro having arguments with himself inside his own head 😂
Hit the nail on the damn head fella
As an adult I've said the second, but I've never said the first. I love seeing kids on skateboards. My neighborhood has a small skatepark in it where a lot of the teens hang out. It always makes me smile when I pass by on a walk.
41 year old loitering around with skateboards here. I've seen so many generations pass through, come and go. The people who stick around are always real characters and it's great when an old face passes through to visit even though they don't skate anymore
This video is so perfect.
I was born in 2000 and grew up very isolated due to overprotective parents. Birthday parties, sleepovers, really anything involving socializing outside of school wasnt allowed. It was always someone was gonna rape me. We dont know what weirdo’s are at other peoples houses. You cant walk 2 blocks down to the bus stop without supervision until you’re well into middle school because people could jump out from behind a car and kidnap you. we lived in an incredibly safe suburban neighborhood where my elementary school was almost quite literally in my backyard. but i was never allowed to even go beyond the slight boundary of my house to engage with the small community of events and kids in our neighborhood. to this day my friends joke about how the inside of my house is some super mysterious land because nobody was EVER allowed over
all i had growing up was books and the internet. i used to fly through 500 page books in a day or two when i was in like 3rd grade. my parents were impressed and thought it was because i was some super genius but it was because it was the only way for me to keep myself entertained by losing myself in fantasy worlds. then that addiction and head in the clouds nature naturally started transferring to the internet and phones in the 2010s.
my dad would constantly tell me stories of the adventures him and his brothers used to get into running around NYC, getting into trouble and exploring and making friends, but then he would turn around and confine me to a suburban prison out of propagandized fear of rapists and kidnappers, then he would be so confused and angry at me when i ended up being very introverted and awkward with my head always in my phone. around halfway through high school he started throwing “how to be confident” and “how to talk to people” books at me almost to the point of suffocating as if that was somehow supposed to make up for an entire childhood of mostly just being by myself. its like he expected me to somehow just magically figure it out along the way while never being allowed to do anything and then started panicking when that didnt happen. well, idk, too late now.
and the stupidest thing about it to me is that of course the second i got a car i started expanding out, i started leaving for hours on hours on end without telling them anything. in my senior year of high school i actually made a friend group that went out and did stuff like hang out at skate parks, spend time with each other making memories and doing random shit out of boredom, going to parties and stuff. It was the one year of my adolescence where I felt like I had a normal experience. When my parents look back at it? they call it my bad, rebellious, lashing out phase.
make it make sense.
are we the same person or something man😭
Literally my story exactly. Never allowed to invite friends over, never encouraged to do something until they just lock me outside hoping to make me extroverted now that I couldn't be raped anymore. Now they're telling me to become independend and social, but how the hell am I supposed to do that?
I really needed to hear your perspective, I think it helped me clear out some reasons for why I am who I am
I feel like I’m reading something I wrote. The one year I had away from my family was the one time I felt like I was actually acting my age. For years I was confined to my room - eventually it became my own desires rather than my mother’s - and I grew used to the solitude.
I can’t seem to find a way out of my social isolation and the pain I have when I see people socializing so easily and interacting like they aren’t constantly anxious of how others see them. All I ever wanted when I was younger was to be a child, and I don’t think I ever got that.
I’ve always wanted to act like people do in movies or shows. Have parties, hang out at diners, go bowling on weekends, have passions and hobbies, but I have none of that. No friends, no passions, no goals, and no places to go that we can afford.
What can we even do now that we’ve been so devastated by isolation?
I have a similar story but half of the overprotectiong was government mandated as the government really seems to Hate or mistrust underrage SV victims.
@@noodlegod2797 Hi. I'll never truly know what it is like to be isolated from the outside as a child like it's described. My parents at first didn't trust sleepovers but as it became mandatory for soccer and other stuff as I got older it eased up. (maybe since our friend was a karate instructor 😄). But seriously I know words in this screen only have as much impact as you'll give them, but I haven't had many out of pocket experiences in highschool but went to a nice school and had cousins that were a strong backbone so I love them and they make things easy. After coming to university I have thunk a lot more about what I want to do blah blah I don't want a boring cubicle I know that already. So I've decided that I'm order to not regret it at 40, not gifting myself a chance at what I truly want (youtube or a business or both), I will make a sudden change and step in what I'm doing right now and:
learn about my dreams (what will I make?
sometimes just give myself half an hour to just THINK only. It usually gives me an idea or makes my eyes and mind light up more than usual and i can be inspired for example during winter break. THE BIGGEST THING THOUGH.
Even know when I just typed winter break, I thought of saying something about being different when winter break is over. It is a month where I'll have TIME that I've always said I wanted and it's different from high school 🏫. But even that "change" sounds scary and impossible because we've told ourselves, I'VE TOLD MYSELF subconsciously that my dreams will come to me eventually, EVENTUALLY I will make my channel easy peasy and it'll work. Ok when. Nothing. I'm not some success guru who is like "make a 5 step plan for how you will do this". Things are dynamic, and will change, maybe I need a stronger plan but first I need a good idea. It is POSSIBLE EZANA, to find that idea with conscious thinking, but not really passive thinking, hence the time that goes by during school is just blank, hence the 30 minute breaks to just think are INSANE because you give yourself that time like you're on free time. It's the same thing with observing nature for more than 10 minutes. No phone.
But back to my point. I've realized that something like RUclips can work for people who have never been famous. We are all PEOPLE, most of whom don't inherit talent or special training stuffs 😄 (stuffs). I don't know, what I'm trying to say is that believing in one's self is not easy for all people based on your resolve and how you see the world, but from someone who believes in themselves and wants to become great enough to be humble narcissistic, I can see that many people who DON'T believe in themselves like I DO (FOR THEM) or think the world cares too much about them (also like my sister who gets embarrassed in public) have common motifs.
Both myself and someone who doesn't believe in their chances both limit ourselves by subconsciously SHUTTING. DOWN. Those ideas of equality with those we see in our screen. Its literally another person. I could meet them and talk to them. Why once i become famous suddenly I could be real friends with them? I don't want to see myself as a celebrity with fans that don't think this. It's just a matter of polishing yourself to stick out in the sand or sea of similar objects. IF I SEE 1 MILLION PIECES OF ROCKS there are still 1 million but I will just see them as a collective and associate them as "one" even though they're all different and if I talked to one IT WOULD BE REAL. But none of that will happen and people also love fanning over people too. So I would just do what I can to voice that to help people see that. I literally had this string of revelations in the past few months and I feel the possibility of actually doing this very close. Why shouldn't I record that video of me playing something just in case I can use it later? I WILL. BECOME famous. Therefore IT WILL BECOME IN HANDY. Therefore I will do it, and enhance it. There. It's a matter of making it a reality, but not to be CLICHE, because I want you you to remember me and that this is not a normal message and I hate cliche advice it'll become one of those 🪨's.
So please. I beg you. Good friends and hobbies are hard to find. Mine have been based on my growth as a kid like soccer and games and cousins. But I've seen people love rock climbing or stuff, or drawing. Or music. I have no idea, it's also time consuming. But it could help to just want to learn stuff. The friends will come in environments where it's fostered, like a school or public space, just if you see a rare gem of a person, make sure to keep them.
I wrote so much gibberish, I hope you can understand some of my unfinished thoughts. But as for the friends: you might have to go places. Its not like school where yoy van befriend those with vast different hobbies, because you might meet at an art shop. But I would maybe compliment people, just ask them questions. It's not cruel to ask someone for coffee (yuck), or smoothie (🧉😃). Hobbies is a journey though, reading, art, etc. Gym and physical stuff since I want the benefits I'll just incorporate it, but I like it now more than before in highschool.
Friends are those I meet who are nice. I met guys because I like to play pool.
Goals: There has to be something you want. Ever idolized some lifestyle?
Take 30 minutes. In that, ask why. LITERALLY WHY. Everything that is stopping you from doing that life right now. Some high barriers like fame or funds, or location/access. But in your natural life you can unlock that key somehow. For me it's what I want to do on RUclips. I know I want to have longevity so it has to be good, not JUST something I love or trends, I can find both.
And be smart with my success like a game winning formula. 🏆.
Idk what it'll feel like once I do that though... maybe meet my idols and more great stuff.
But please. please. Why. Can't. You?
I love you. I want you to not be afraid of people as friends, I want you to be safe. So do that. But also, if you find someone nice, that's all I ask, if you find someone mean, try again, or realize that those who truly will be happy in life are those who surround themselves with the first, and help the latter. Eventually many young people will realize mistakes and other stuff. How often do you hear older people call their young self stupid? I don't gave time for that though, I'd rather not, life will be more beautiful and confident if I don't need to say that. Love nature, and little interactions. Ask questions from THOSE WHO ARE LIVING/GAINED XP. But please, live according to the show "Blue Lock" and also reevaluate your constructs of time. (I like fancy words). ONE MONTH IS A LOT. I'LL BE DAMNED IF I DON'T USE IT. WHY CAN'T I POST SOMETHING AND GET BETTER. WHY.
NOT. (I will also try investing, and my conclusions of youtube and investing won't be my limiters (the worst part about being a normal civilian who doesn't believe in a SICK life). I will read more graphic novels, watch more movies, do things I've never done because I want to LEARN. Learn about more business stuff and a potential business now, so it'll be easier later. Ok bye. Oh and I'll talk to my old teachers and interview people.
*All of this is inspired by teaching myself recently to not be scared of growing, because that's not scarier than regretting it all at 40. Dead. Serious. And Blue Lock. 🟦🔐
I honestly didn't even realize i needed a third place until i watched this, I've always felt this lonely claustrophobia about going from work to home or a friends house but i could never even figure out what it was i wanted and this is it. I want a third place
No joke, my folks were asking me why I rarely leave the house ( I live alone but we talk often) and the closest I could describe it was "everything outside feels like a dead mall" it feels lonely and sad.
I didn't figure it out until I experienced university common rooms , lounges etc. It's still really hard though.
@@NodTheNood ya it really does feel like that, I think my new goal is to create third places for the next Gen. I don't want them to be as lonely as we were
@@lararys7765 Yeah, college really puts this into perspective a 150,000 dollars plus interest third place.
Only rich people get them unfortunately, which I do think this is the main thing causing the dating crisis in men, especially poor men. They literally have no where to go to meet women that isn't sus af if they tried to talk to them.
In my town, there's a cheap movie night. $22 for 2 tickets, two drinks, large popcorn. I go to the movies every week unless I'm super stressed out. I don't ever really talk to anyone much, other than the people who work there, but it's nice. You don't have to dress up or try too hard.
We are not social due to our environment not being built around social experiences.... Definitely built for cars though! 🙃
God I hate cars. Cars and guns are some of the worst inventions humans have made. And I’m including nuclear stuff in that because if we never made guns we wouldn’t have made those either.
Facts. So much has been sacrificed for cars.
Exactly. Growing up my parents always wondered why I spent all my time by my computer, and I always told them the same thing. My friends are all spread apart across the suburban sprawl. Anywhere interesting to hang around was even further away. When I became old enough to take the bus they would freak out when I travelled dozens of km away just to hang out at a mall and would stop me from doing so (and understandably so). Of course, in typical boomer/gen x fashion both of them just thought something was wrong with me rather than the environment I was raised in
I wish I was born in a hood in NYC where community is thriving lol
@@saltydinonuggies1841 Agreed about the cars. But guns? Guns rule dude idk what ur talkin about lol
Oh my gosh and some people recommend bad "third places." So my town basically has a few options. You go to the bar, where it's a bunch of boomer drunk old guys who eyeball or just talk "at" you rather than with you. You also have the alternative clubbing, but most people in the club are not really looking for a deep connection. Maybe a drug friend, hookup, or a quick night together.
You have the park, its mostly family with kids, its not easy to necessarily approach a family having a picnic, birthday party, etc, it feels a bit like encroaching their personal space if you're a complete stranger.
Restaurants/movie theatres/museums... idk, you'd have no good chance at the restaurant or movie theatre because people just go then leave usually. A museum might strike up a good conversation but most of them are no longer free.
There are no public gathering spaces in my town that i actually *like* besides the farmers market or we'll get lucky with a community yard sale.
"You go to the bar, where it's a bunch of boomer drunk old guys who eyeball or just talk "at" you rather than with you" lmfaooo
I love museums, but I have never ever met somebody at a museum. "Met" as in "encountered, had a conversation with and kept contact with".
Third spaces are hard to find because it’s all stuff like gyms, sports groups, arts classes, and other things if the sorts that cost money to join, therefore making them exclusive. It’s a huge shame
If you want to talk to people at the park see if any of your neighbours are looking for a dog walker, a lot of people I run into while walking my dog will start a conversation about that especially if they are also walking a dog. A few videos on RUclips to research how to train with positive reinforcement a bag of liver treats and a few plastic bags to clean up after your clients and you have social interaction on your day off and a small secondary income.
@@weird-guy Dang I have like 1 of those, and it is a park. That is so funny that you think all of that exists in one area 🤣🤣
I work at a coffee shop and offered the idea of having board games for public use. My boss rejected this since “it’ll bring in kids who occupy tables for longer and disturb those who are studying.” …. I was appalled because if coffee shops don’t want the youth then where else will they have left to go?
This video and your comment helped me realize my local hole in the wall coffee shop is probably one of the few third spaces left in my area. It has one table inside it's so small, there's three out front. And if it's above freezing, people will sit out there and chat. Doesn't matter if it's you're first time there, your 80th time there, or whatever you're getting a hello and drug into the current conversation while you get your coffee.
A lot of people go out of their way, including me, to go to this shop because they 1- offer great in-house roast coffee and 2-it's probably the most welcoming space I've ever found locally. It feels good to talk to people of all ages about anything. I'm not kidding the topics range from finding crystals in dry lake beds to local politics to astronomy to fashion to home renovation... it's so rare it's almost magical at this point.
I live in Poland and board game bars are very popular spaces. Some of them also offer consoles for people to play together, which helps a lot since consoles are at their best for couch gaming with other people but fewer and fewer games are built for that.
It's so successful that normal cafés are also offering a library of board games for people to borrow. It's genuinely nice.
Here in Germany we also have coffee’s that offer books and sometimes also board games. In my town we have a board game bar and it is popular among adults and teens.
such a great poit. I worked in a brewery nd they had board games, It was so simple and I didn't thinkit meant much... but this comment made me realize hoe fuggin important it is to GIVE people a place to not just by product and consume product and then GTFO. The fact that I now see all those families, friend groups playing jenga or Catan etc... means more to me now than I ever could have realized. I appreciate you comment so much. I want to open my own pizzeria soon, and I'm tearing up ahah. I knew I always but community first but I never realized how important I was in someone peoples lives. It was never about the money for me... but I'm going to double down in my future and make sure a place to just fugging GO and.. BE... with friends family etc., will be the cornerstone of my promotions. I will build and proudly be apart of something money can't buy. A thrid place. :). (jun 6th 202, 5am... (sorry if I look back at this one day I want to remember this moment. cheers guys, and thanksso much Elliot!)
Phones. Social media. Pornh7b. Tikrok. Fortnite.
The few parks we do have have little shade, limited bathroom facilities, and almost no seating. Most of it is hostile architecture to prevent poor people and homeless from existing in a space. You can’t find benches in cities anymore at least around here.
The homeless are usually one of the reasons why people don't take their children to parks anymore tho...
@@anarcho-savagery2097bit cringe to fear the homeless
@@Spookatz. i don't fear them, it's the normies that fear them, and usually for good reason. But cringe to think nothing can hurt you.
The parks I live near have a reputation for kids killing each-other (and bystanders) via drive-by shootings...
@@Othique imagine some redditor telling you that it's cringe to fear gangbangers...
I gotta wonder how much our dislike of being around children and young people has to do with the extent of our burnout as a result of our own exploitation and overwork...
Yes, I was watching a video on that the other day. How Scandinavia has more places for kids to play and discover and the environment is more family focused where as America has none of that as a whole. Other countries made being in society safe for families.
Yeah, I think you're partially there. We spend so much time at work that the TINY amount of time we get to be free, we hate it when a screaming child is ruining it.
It's very multi-faceted. Another reason would be that kids just don't know how to behave because they haven't learned how to properly socialize around adults. They spend so much time cramped up inside and only spending time with other children online, they don't realize it's not ok to run up and smack adults or scream as loud as you can because you didn't get your way... as a 7 year old.
I worked retail for a few years back in the mid 2010s, and in all my years, every single child I encountered acted like a rotten brat except one. He was about 6 years old and came up to me quietly and said "sir, may I please see that item" and I gladly helped him. It brought such a smile to my face to see a kid actually BEHAVING like I used to when I was a kid. It doesn't help parents seem to not do much about it these days either. Very lately I've noticed parents trying a little harder, but it could just be anomalous. We will have to see in the long term. I can say with certainty that it was a horrible idea for parents 13 years ago to give their babies iPads. We will see the results of that in a few years when they start working service jobs.
Yeah that is what I was thinking mainly when you go to a place that could kinda be considered a "third place" no one their wants to talk because they have a very strict schedule and beyond work that is their only free time.
I also think it has to do with the idea that society likes to distill a person down. Once a parent that's your main identity and trying not to be stuck in that gets a lot of backlash
nah, it's because kids are obnoxious
Our local pool cost me $2.00 for the whole day. A drink and something to eat, the cost to enter, and 20cents for a call home if I wanted a ride back that day for whatever reason. That was cheap even for then. If it had been $5 that wldv been fine.
This summer it's $40 to enter. That's not the equivalent
We had the mall with arcade, movie theater, food court. Malls were dying well before purchasing online bc they started to disallow kids under 16 to be there without parents. We had a place called "the wall" that was removed bc they wanted to change the area to more family friendly during the day and more gentrified, urban adults at night. The restaurant we could get a huge thing of fries for $2 is now a full sit down restaurant with average meal being $60 for 1 person and the awesome pizza by the slice mini-space is gone.
It's not social media. It's that places decided they didn't want teens. Alot of teen places were dead well before social media. It's sad
That’s sad. I find everything today is exorbitantly priced. As if socializing is supposed to be a privilege for the moneyed versus a basic human need. And we wonder why people don’t feel engaged in their communities.
@@pisceanbeauty2503one aspect that is often lost is that the exorbitant prices are often required to keep businesses afloat. Running a business is very expensive these days. Can there be greed and inflated prices? Sure, but the price floor to keep businesses running is the main factor here.
@@pisceanbeauty2503 I live in a neighborhood. I don't live in a community.
Even regular restaurants are pricing people out the door. McDonald's will cost a family of four upwards of $50 these days. Movie theaters cost as much just for tickets. As a father of young kids, my options for getting them out of the house are becoming more scarce, especially when the weather is bad.
@@richbailey819 Well yeah, that's the cost of having kids.
Lack of public transportation is a huge contributor as well, I grew up in a city with zero public transportation and no downtown and it wasn't until I got my driver's license that I really started having literally any friends
Also I wanna say it's not like it wasn't possible either, almost every city around us had some level of public transportation or a downtown so walkable
me too! during covid i started taking walks at 2am just to go somewhere
i was skipping class one day at a park and a lady was walking her dog. i really wanted to pet the dog ('ve been trying to pet every dog possible) and so i asked her if it was possible. she was so nice and gentle that we ended up talking for about two hours, even another lady joined us for a moment. it was so cool, i felt so alive! we are now friends! sometimes we talk still, its nice to be alive :)
I was in a park reading a book on time when two old ladies came up and asked me what I was reading
The book was about Jonestown, so I basically had to explain the Jonestown m@ssacre to them lmao. Needless to say we didn't keep in touch
What a wonderful interaction. I’m so happy you met a stranger and made a friend (or 2, because I believe animals count too).
As a chronically depressed person, I’m very jealous of things being nice.
That sounds fun.
Dog + park can be a great way to meet strangers.
I LOVE THIS COMMENT. THANK god u felt alive. I love u/us all
Its so true, even in places outside of the US third places are rapidly dissappearing, you cant go anywhere for free and be safe
unless you are born well off, you are facing death the moment you are born. safety was never something people had in eurocentric countries or anywhere they have influence
Here in Germany you CAN go somewhere and be safe - but you won't have a toilet or a roof if it rains or if the sun is burning. :(
@@saturationstation1446everyone faces death the moment they’re born. It’s actually a revelation that most people miss about life and a call to live in the moment or not to procrastinate.
@@johannageisel5390 which is practically the same as not having third places in my opinion :( a toilet and a roof/shadow are basic requirements for staying in a place for more than an hour i think.
The feeling of being unsafe is most likely from unfamiliarity or loneliness; most places are as safe to be as they've ever been.
You also notice this in subultures. Since the 2000s, there has never been another major subculture group after rock, goth, punk, emo, scene, etc etc. There are no more meeting places for new youth subcultures to form, and because of that it's almost impossible for new communities to establish themselves. Whenever a new potential subculture forms it can only exist online, and it becomes a commercial trend before it can even establish a community (ex: turning goth or emo into an "alt girl gf" clothing trend on tiktok or youtube).
Ouch
Yes!! That's what I brought up to my friend when we were talking about the topic of third places (before I knew that term). I LOVE the goth subculture but it doesn't feel accurate calling myself goth anymore because not even places like Goth Amino online are active anymore. ☹️ I don't want to be goth by consuming content; I want to be part of something and interacting with people, because that's where the magic is. 😢 At least I got to go to a local goth night this summer as well as a punk festival--that was beautiful. I just wish there were even MORE opportunities for that cuz going to one event a year isn't exactly a community.
There do technically exist stuff like Bronies and E-Girls but they are mostly just on the Internet. Other subcultures like Furries manage to keep growing though.
@@austinreed7343furries are actually a great example! interestingly, it might be the only community that manages to successfully organize events and meetups that don't surround some kind of "content". at least from the outside, it looks like a solid communtiy
Do kpop fans count as a subculture? There's event in my city dedicated for kpop fans to meet up, practice dances, form their own cover groups, trading photocards, etc. And clubs that only play kpop.
"We focus less on meaningful education and adventure and more on making sure kids are obedient and in place" omg, yes, I can't tell you how many times teachers in my schools would straight up cancel education over one student not obeying some dumb arbitrary rule.
THIS IT WAS SO FUCKING WEIRD
Not sure if this is what you're referring to but during my final year in school, we had a teacher walk out in a huff over one of the students saying that we did not have much time to cover all of the syllabus material in-class the previous year and we had to do quite a bit of self-studying to cover everything. She said this very politely and was talking more about the inefficient structuring of the course (which is more up to the exam board and not our school/teachers) rather than critiquing someone's teaching style. She didn't come back for the rest of the class lmao so we just made use of the time and got on with our work. And this happened in a pricey school that I had the privilege to be able to attend, I cannot imagine what it must be like for public schools that are having their budgets slashed within an inch of their lives. Us young folk live in a world that has made it impossible for us to truly grow as humans but we are criticised for displaying symptoms of such an upbringing.
So many bad memories of trying to raise teenagers, and discovering there was nowhere they could congregate. If they tried to play soccer in a park, the police would ask them to leave, and literally take their ball away to make sure they didn’t come back. If they hung out by the local lake, they would be asked to leave, as though they were gang members. The mall was off-limits, the school was only for official school activities, and even the big box store parking lots, nope … “Excuse me, kids, this is private property.” How many times did I end up driving a large group to the IHOP two towns away just because it was the only place they could “hang out” - as long they were spending money.
you’re an incredibly based parent, holy shit
Could it be that you could have gone to the park and played soccer without toking up, or making the park intolerable for others?! That's what we did. Then came the antisocial behaviors, and with them came cops...
@@ianhansen6840 could it be that
you’re just being a chauvinist asshole right now?
I don’t quite understand these responses. In many East Coast cities, soccer fields are scheduled from 5 AM until after dark, so teens can’t go and just spontaneously strike up a game. Once, in our town, a new school was built, and everyone was happy that there would be a new soccer field available, but then the neighbors lobbied the mayor to only allow grade-school age games to be played there. My comments were in support of the video-maker’s thesis that teenagers have - for no good reason - been shut out of public spaces, and that makes for an unhealthy society. Watch the video and then comment.
What? Are you from north Korea? Or is this really how it is in America? Can't play in park? Can't be near a lake? I think you're exaggerating
One third space i've recently realized is underappreciated is the library. I've been spending a lot of time there with the kid I work with precisely because its the only indoor place I can take him without spending any money. The one we go to is in a working class neighborhood with a lot of families, and the librarians there have basically adopted the neighborhood's latchkey kids. They do *so* much for them - remembering all their names, keeping things for them to do on hand, planning activities for them, keeping the peace when they get rowdy - once, one of the librarians spent an hour figuring out how to circumvent the system's blocker so the kids could play roblox on the computers. The kids are not always easy to have around, and they are unfailingly kind and respectful to them. It just gives me a whole new perspective on libraries and the role they play in their communities.
Library is often distrusted since it is operated by the state, but it is about the least violent arm of the state that exists.
Ours is not open on weekends so it is basically useless
@@sycration I agree with you, but I think it has parallels to schools. The fact that schools are operated by the state and function to serve the state doesn't change the fact that there are many teachers and other staff doing life-changing work for their students, usually outside of the responsibilities of their actual job, and that many kids and their communities would be screwed without those teachers. I think the same applies here.
@@Nick_CF I mean, I've never been to the library on a weekend and every time I'm there there are plenty of people using it. Sorry to hear that you can't personally make use of its services though.
@@saggguy7 yeah there is a great quote from on old miner that goes something like "after a full day working at the mine what good is a library for a man"
God, this video made me feel heard. I’m a teen from the suburban South, and I recently went to Seattle to visit family. The difference in culture was astounding. In Seattle, there were free public theatre events, parks everywhere, community centers with basketball courts and pools, and cheap(ish) restaurants and cafés. My aunt and uncle had neighbors casually drop by the house and talk on the front porch because they were “just walking by.” There were sidewalks and buses and trains and bikes and all kinds of ways to get places *other than cars.* I spent so much time in these spaces that my screen time dropped to an hour or two a day. Cut back to being at home, with no car and both parents working. I’ve left the house once in the 3 days I’ve been home to go to the grocery store. My screen time has shot up to over 8 hours a day, and I’m far less happy in general. Third places make all the difference.
That's so rough. I hear you. I had some experience with the same thing when I was younger. That's soul crushing. I hope you find your place.
literally same. i can’t walk anywhere outside of my neighborhood and i don’t have a car. shits depressing lol. ppl always laugh at me when i tell them i want to move to a major city and i don’t care how trashy it can be, atleast it has an abundance of life, spaces and activities. atleast i can access it just by instantly stepping outside of my home. everything here just seems stagnant. the houses are nearly identical. not many people go outside either way so when i do walk around, i feel like i’m being watched from cars that pass by or from windows bc i’m the only one out there.
I have 4 teen kids and you just described their life. I was so concerned with moods, screen time, lack of friends, etc.... not at all like my Gen X teen experience. At least now so many things make sense!!
@@thevegimeatatarian If there is nowhere to go, people go online.
Idk if you happen to live in Louisiana but I work for an arts center that does a lot of community outreach. A lot of cities have arts centers that offer a cafe to hang out in, exhibits, performances, classes, etc. Also public libraries are desperately trying to attract people right now and actually have some pretty cool programs where you can rent free passes to places that usually cost money like museums, historical attractions, and downtown events. My organization is desperately trying to get people to explore their city because there are so many cool hidden places that unfortunately can't afford marketing and rely on word of mouth. It's still a limited range of events but maybe check it out to see if you have anything in your area like this!!
Better yet, try to get involved if you can!! We are always looking for new ideas and love meeting with proactive people who want to better the community. Unfortunately it's gonna take some effort from all of us to make our cities real communities rather than disconnected and sterile networks of suburbs and strip malls.
This is why the recent popularity of D&D bringing people together in person has been such a boon to the geek community in the US. My local game store is full of players ranging from their teens to their late 40's lately enjoying campaigns every weekend.
It’s the only place I found with adults not just teenagers and grandparents that doesn’t break the bank
This is how my brother met his best friend.
I mean, is it any surprise that D&D brings adults together? It’s basically the equivalent of what we used to do as kids when we played to pretend to be whatever shit we made up lol. Only it’s got enough complexity and a level of challenge to keep our adult attention spans more engaged haha
I would say about 65% of my friends groups consists of gamers. Its a decent way to meet folks. Also none of my past relationships have been with Other gamers. 🤔
Thank you for this. The death of Third Places affects us old people, too. There's no place to go that isn't expensive, loud, and generally unpleasant because they want you to spend your money and get out.
We need places where we can just be, and by "we:" I mean everyone. Teenagers, Olds, families, the lot.
When I was young I had zero adults in my life. No role models or mentors, just other rowdy kids. It was fun but I really feel like I missed out on a fundamental part of human existence, the part where you learn from other people's experience.
We need to stick together, instead of letting them isolate us. It's not good for anyone.
See if a local brewery has bingo or trivia nights ? That’s what I am going to try this week .
You old folks are the reason this happened. Reaping what you sowed
@@drendenoxendine3491you can’t blame the people before us for this, there are plenty of people who left out these spaces when they designed the cities we live in. Nobody really had a choice on what’s built and how it’s built, who was gonna stop and say hey this is wrong and even if people did listen what can they do the work as been done the city built and everyone is running the race.
As a young person I agree! I didn’t have adult role models other than my parents growing up and I feel like I’ve missed out. We need third spaces so intergenerational friendships can blossom!
@@drendenoxendine3491that’s not always true. They bought into the message they were sold. It is no different than the high income earners buying EVs thinking they are “saving the environment”. They truly believe the message being told or have no other choice but to believe in it.
I am completely isolated in my apartment. No friends and I have no money and no idea where to even go to meet people where it feels genuine and not unnatural. At the grocery store the other day, a girl employee there I have interacted with a few times smiled at me so warmly and it felt so good. I am so hungry for connection.
Any social interaction outside of the 3-7 people I talk to everyday is rare and usually great. I never forget random individuals that say something to me in line at the store, or the people that do something goofy through the window of their car at a red light. I know the exact sensation youre describing and I wish you best of luck making it more frequent. Don't give up
@@LostSoulchild89 I have two cats that I’m very close to. I’m gonna be moving back home soon so I hope that will help change things and give me more money to explore.
lonliness sucks since it's dependent on others behaviour but imma give you some ideas anyways
try becoming a regular at a café. get the cheapest thing they have and sit for a while. make mindless chat with someone who's alone with nothing to do (ie, if they pull a laptop out they're probably not a good option since they could be working, but if they're mindlessly scrolling on a phone they could be a nice chat if they look up at you)
go to a library, check out some books, do some stuff online there. there could be some events they put on, even if not being around people is still nice.
walk around in a park, sit on a bench, get some fresh air. maybe you'll see someone who's sitting alone too?
check around online or at advertisements around town to see if theres any free events going on.
the things i suggested are not really good and will absolutely feel unnatural but if you can, chat with anyone you see in those places who doesn't look deep in work or preoccupied with other people. if you don't start chatting with random strangers, there's not a chance that something more natural may come up. get out of your comfort zone and force yourself to be obnoxious, because that's the only way to build confidence and connections in a world that's becoming more and more isolating.
Bookstores that have seating and a cafe. I am a tarot reader that goes to the local Books A Million to buy decks. Sometimes I see other readers there and strike up a conversation. I’m a shy person by nature, so I understand.
the youth are increasingly finding themselves at a major disadvantage. Not only are their concerns not taken seriously, but they are blamed for the problems adult society has forced upon them.
Don’t fall prey to the generational blame game. It’s a certain subset of adults who ruin things for everyone. My life history of gathering places and hangouts has been wiped out. It’s sad to see the losses mount.
As kids in middle school (early-mid 1980s) we had 3 arcades, 2 shopping malls, a public and university library, a comic shop and a TTRP game shop to hang out in after school.
I tell my kids about it and it blows their minds that we hung out in places without our parents even knowing where we were or how long we'd be gone.
they never hear 'come back when it gets dark'
Same situation but a few years later (I was in middle school in early to mid-2000's) and I remember we would go to several parks in the area where none had a closing time, we would go to the supermarket and make a picnic in a random greenery spot, go to shopping centres, etcetra and the parents wouldn't know anything and didn't even ask as long as we were safe and uninjured. I remember we even went to the large shopping centre that had opened recently and you would need to take a 30 min bus to get there but we decided to go by foot and that was some of my last summer holidays memories until I moved and all of a sudden, everything had a curfew, things started to get expensive and we weren't liked around that much anymore.
I feel bad for these kids, they are being brought to this world built for adults and blamed for trying to find something else to do.
@@rosietales Your post actually highlights an important factor as well: These attitudes are regional. We tend to think of the attitude of isolating kids for their own protection as universal and based on things being different now than they were, but much as you experienced, often just moving to a new area changes the picture. It's true that society overall has trended towards more isolation of children from the overall culture, but you'll also find that different places have different attitudes, even within the same local region. Often it varies from neighborhood to neighborhood in the same town.
Not everyone. I grew up in the '80s & '90s and my Mom always had to know where we were & who we were with. We didn't have any money to go places, so we just played with the kids down the street, rode our bikes, or played games at home.
I grew up in the Fifties, and my parents, and pretty much ALL the parents, made us leave the house in the morning to play with each other--totally unsupervised. We had a tree-fort that was forty feet up in the air, and very visible. No parent ever complained about how dangerous that was. We made bonfires on the street. No complaints--just kids playing. My brother jumped off a ten-foot high tree-fort and got a hernia. He had to get an operation. My parents did not say "Oh you can't climb up that tree-fort any more." They just put it down to "kids will have accidents every now and then." Our parents were very uninvolved in our lives, but what that meant is that we played all the time in groups (coed in my neighborhood), and developed social skills without even thinking about it. I recognize that this has all changed, to some degree because things have become less safe. Sang's analysis of the present screwed-up situation is very good. I hope people are listening.
As a childcare worker and someone who genuinely loves kids, it's truly heartbreaking the amount of kids I've met who've never met an adult who actually enjoys spending time with them. I feel like capitalism has made a lot of parents view their kids as financial burdens instead of fully fledged little human beings. It makes me sad and angry. I want to say BE NICE TO YOUR KIDS but I know the problem runs deeper than that
This! In my family it's only me who plays with my nieces, no one want to do stupid stuff , go skate or play Monopoly with them, watch videos or movies with them, I won't be having kids but I'll spend my free time with them till the day they are tired of me 😅
It's not capitalism but the industrial revolution. When almost everyone had a farm, children were a net benefit to a family but when we all moved to the cities to be wage slaves, kids became a burden. Capitalism is just the existence of a free market not controlled by the government. The government controlling the market wouldn't make anything better. But going from an agriculture society to an industrial one is the problem
@@bettedavis45Yes! And the nuclear family has also been a tragedy for children. It’s an exhausting way to live with family when everyone’s doing three times more household work than they would have done in an extended, multi-generational household. Stressed-out parents tend to parent poorly. The social-democratic capitalist countries, like France, Canada, Japan, have a social safety net that relieves a great deal of the stress that American parents endure. To blame everything on capitalism is simplistic.
@@bettedavis45 Alienation like this is, without a doubt, the fault of the capitalist system. Its development has made the industrial revolution inevitable, and impossible to undo. It is simply too profitable to give up. The same goes for the state becoming entwined in business, as its key role is to bail these businesses out in crises.
Capitalism, to clear what I'm saying up, is the stage of society where production is owned by and ran for the benefit of the capitalist, who directly owns the materials, instruments, and even buys the time of the workers they employ to make them money. The government is integral to its function, as it makes laws that benefit capitalists, hands them money, officiates their wars, and crushes mass movements. I'm guessing you're most likely referring to is laissez-faire capitalism, which is quite literally is having a free market without state interference. (I'm using the socialist definition of capitalism, as they were the first to actually coin the term, and the scientific socialists were the ones to truly lay out what it actually is.)
@@meganbaker9116 blaming capitalism seems simplistic, I agree, but that's because it's compressing a lot of long, drawn out, and complicated points into a single sentence, instead of thousands of pages of reading.
my boyfriend and i are both 19. we like to frequent concerts and skateparks as our third spaces. we also don't have many friends and are often hoping to meet and connect when in these spaces. we may get an occasional "that was sick!" at the skatepark or mutual vibing at a concert, but it can be hard to get any footing with a connection deeper than that. everyone wants to enjoy the space on their own. even in the rarity that you find third spaces, i feel like we're now wired to put up walls and enjoy the shared space individually.
i feel this. there's a beach near me i can go to as my third space, but i wouldn't really make any connections. making conversation feels shallow because people are there to enjoy it on their own or in their group, not to make friends. they put up walls and avoid talking further. in the few times i do manage to get someones number, they don't text back after the first conversation. i feel like we're somehow being taught to be more introverted and/or stay in our social comfort zone. i'm trying to step out of that mindset, and it's hard when nobody else is.
i really want to say it's a problem with me. i have been saying that for a while. if it is, it's fixable. but i click with people really well, and nothing happens. i try to look for people to talk to, and there's nobody who'd be open. it sucks.
I havent seen anyone talk about this but i feel the exact way. Im seventeen years old and just moved to a big city from my small hometown and have no friends here yet. School starts soon but there has to be better ways to befriend others outside of school, work, and family connections.
@@shejustlikestofight I never really appreciated school for how much it helps you get to know people, and now I'm three years out of college, working from home, and still the only friends I have in the area are the few that stuck around after college -- and even they're hard to get a hold of. Granted, I remember it being pretty hard in big schools to make close friends. I hate to sound so bleak but yeah, it sucks. :( On a side note though, I saw your other comment and I'm also in the Portland OR area :) Hope you feel like you fit in soon.
@@sinzones3909this is a great distinction. That even when we enjoy social events together we still don’t connect deeper or make “new” connections. It’s not you. I’m 35 and still attend music festivals at times and for me it’s just hard to open up to new people. I have my tight small circle of ride or die people and as you get older it becomes harder and harder to create new friendships and bonds. Even though I absolutely could. Perhaps a part of it is the way we live now. Our lifestyle consists of working having less and less time to save money, slow down, eat healthy. We are all being pushed around like sheep in a system that does not care about us.
But sometimes you have to be bold and go out of your way to interact with people. Especially since you guys are a couple, it's way less threatening. If it's a niche band, people will love to discuss their favorite band, or other similar bands they have seen. But beyond that I agree that getting something more like a consistent friend group might be pretty difficult, depending where you live I suppose.
We do need a total redesign of transportation infrastructure. Great, accessible, reliable public transportation, bike and walking. Humans on the street instead of just hiding in their cars and going broke alone
but all of that will mean nothing if they keep loitering illegal and make areas hostile to the homeless (which makes it hostile to everyone).
@@fortheloveofnoiseThe homless make areas hostile to all
@@cyberspace7208 Only if you hate the homeless. We should build some houses for them
They literally dont though
@@cyberspace7208
A lot of "communities" and identities nowadays are also explicitily formed around consumerism and brands. I remember this medieval style tapestry an art student made for an expo a while back, that showed our "path of life" as defined by brands, stitched onto the tapestry.
I’d love to see that artwork, do you have happen to have a link to a photograph or something? Thank you very much!
We've been brainwashed.
The Industrial Revolution has been a disaster for the human race.. et al
Hi, I'd very much like to see the artwork? do you have an image or a copy?
gross
I watched a documentary on RUclips that explained that’s how the government shaped US society after ww2, around consumerism. It was based on ideas by phycologist like Sigmund Freud and Edward Barneys. It’s all by design. The documentary is called 'The century of self'.
If I remember correctly, the ides was to focus human sub-conscious mind onto consumerism instead of war, because if left on it's own, human sub-conscious would seek war-like activities.
As a South Korean, I feel like the lack of third places have blocked interaction between young males and females. Especially since kids usually focus on studying in middle and high school rather socializing. I wonder if that contributes to the hate between men and women here.
It does. Not that giving men and women places to interact cures misogyny, but historically cultures often create spaces and practices to facilitate courting and dating and those things are often demonstrably essential to social health
nah middle and high school is when people are open to making friends and socializing, after that its game over, even college is a bit of a challenge and then after college its beyond over lol
This is an issue that happens across all developed nations. Because under Capitalist systems, a human being has to "maximize" their competition power in order to give "more value" to work places in order to survive. The more people compete, the harder the competition becomes, and the more loss of our humanity goes with it.
@@iiCounted-op5jxnot really, we have almost no time to do that stuff because getting into a good college is a huge deal
@@iiCounted-op5jx you're not getting it
Im going to share a story with you.
Im 15F and live in a Lima, Peru, and my parents are often worried about my safety- even when I walk to school, which is about 10 minutes away. My family lives in a gated community with security guards and cleaners and everything.
One day I decided I wanted to walk around, explore, see where I ended up. So I walked several blocks to a convenience store and decided to try and take a different route to get back home, through the neighborhoods rather than the Main Street. But while walking back home, I got lost in the maze of streets and houses, and I barely knew which direction to go anymore. I was getting nervous, and I had stopped at the crossroad when an old man across the street called out to me. He asked me, in Spanish, where I was headed and all the worried from my parents kicked in. I kept my face neutral and instead of saying “my house” I said the name of the street next to it. I was automatically assuming the old man’s wanted to follow me or something, when he smiled kindly and gave me directions. I was flabbergasted. I wasn’t used to strangers willingly communicating, because I’m young. But as I kept walking along I noticed more and more that the people who were all out sitting on their porch or lawn were old men and women. After the interaction with the man who gave me directions, I began to smile and greet them and they were so friendly. I cannot believe I’ve missed out for so long.
Tmbn de perú, pero soy conere xd sal disfruta, eres joven algo divertido de hacer es pasear x las estaciones del tren(y ademas safe) ir a actividades de museos, como el mali, el mac centros cutlurales chicos ir a la playa, las lomas, conocer tacora, k el miedo no te impida conocer y adueñarte del mundo :3
i lived in peru for one year, it was an amazing memory things are so different and people are much more friendly there than here in the US
Life will always be scary, but fear shouldn’t keep us from experiencing and loving our lives. We end up with happy interactions like this. ☺️💕
The internet is substantially less safe than just spending time outside with friends especially. The whole kidnapper in a creepy white van thing began when I was like 6 in 1990. It was not a widespread thing then, and now it is doubly true. Child predators do not even have take on the high risk by perusing neighborhoods for a strange child that is alone no adults at all in earshot. They have a very diverse profile of exploitative tactics and even entire networks to help. It is just one more instance of safety being used as a guise for control.
A la gente en Lima le gusta crearse sus burbujas
"We dont have to like people to look out for them" extremely true. My sister and I were chatting about what a 'good' local community would look like and the first thing she said was "well it would be hard to collect that many people who get along with each other in one place". Who said we all have to get along and like each other? I've said it before and I'll say it again. Community =/= friend group. We need to learn how to get along with and support people we dont like because without that crucial skill, there is No Community, only disjointed groups of friends.
for real. I don't like kids, honestly. And everyone thinks that means I'm gonna kick a child. No. They're just super overwhelming to me, but a happy child is infinitely better than an upset one. So yeah I'm gonna wave or smile or answer a question if a child asks me one (a rogue 2yo hugged me once and got his lollipop stuck in my hair. his mom was PISSED, but it was honestly so funny). I don't have to like them, but I can still show them the world isn't super shitty. It's not difficult to just be nice to people no matter their age.
This hits so hard. My college is designed around so many events and spots to gather that are all within walking distance. Most days I'm never even in my dorm. But when I go home I hardly leave my house because there's nothing to do that doesn't involve shopping. There's a community spot nearby that requires birth certificates just to get a pass. I used to see lots of kids outside when I was younger but now I don't even see people waiting for the bus anymore. The malls are emptier than they used to be with only the movie theater and shoe stores really being open. I'm only now realizing why everyone's so nostalgic for the 90s. Everyone seemed like they were so much together with their town and community.
so true!
I work at Starbucks and they fully have co-opted the "third place", at least in its training and barista standard models, and it pisses me off to no end
can i ask why it pisses you off? i visit starbucks quite often as a third place, and i’ve talked to customers on a whim at times at various locations. the coffee can be expensive which is a qualm for me, but in my suburban neighbourhood its the closest thing to a third place i have. for that reason, i pay lots of money for not only the drink, but for the ambiance. i’d love to hear your input though
@mari-lx4jc I'm a barosta in a coffee shop that actually works with the local community. We put up art we make our own fun drinks. We have events we organize not the overlords. We made a take a book leave a book shelf. So many little things like this add up. All Starbucks are the same. Sterile. No souls. No real community.
My case studies on Starbucks during school harped on the company's desire to be a place of congregation for their target market. Unfortunately, it's the bones of Starbucks' model. It works in my apartment complex location, though. There are people of all ages and dogs that go in there and it makes the neighborhood feel more "human."
@@mari-lx4jc What you describe is the issue. If the price of coffee is a barrier to you, that's also true for others. If it's not equally accessible to all, it cannot rightly be defined as a third place (the exception to this would be third places reserved for children or other age-specific third places). By describing itself as a third place, Starbucks has taken the concept and bent it (annihilated it, actually) to make them seem more favourable and virtuous as a CORPORATION, which totally undermines the actual intended meaning of the term "third place", and leaves the door open for others to do the same.
@@isabelle775 thank you! that’s an amazing way of explaining the concept. i always kind of knew this but could never explain myself correctly
Two thoughts:
1: you're spot on about a lack of spaces for older children and teens. How the hell are they supposed to socialize offline without them?
2: I don't think the problem of finding other people, or specific groups of people so annoying or odious that you intentionally avoid them will ever be solved. The notion of a cafe where rich and poor and black and white and quiet and loud all gather willingly is borderline utopic. Rich and poor could, but rich will gladly buy better experiences than the poor can afford. Black and white can, but neighborhoods are often heavily segregated even today. Loud and quiet...well i dont think they're reconciling any time soon.
Every neighborhood should have several options for third spaces so that differing groups can find their preferred environments.
There are ways to solve the gaps between rich and poor, black and white, and while it will never be perfect let’s not make the unattainability of perfect the enemy of incremental good.
It's more about not being completely isolated from people in different situations from you. The more non-hostile interactions we have with people the more we can empathize with them and understand their perspectives.
Funny how yall preach about segregation and sht.....
But why bother when these people in their innate nature, wether conscious or unconscious, segregate themselves?
White people not wanting to have anything to do with black people and (big shockers!) vice versa aswell?
How about we stop this bullcrap about stuff like that, when the biggest problem ISN'T this, but the people willingly segregating themselves for usually no reason at all!
I'm polish, living in Germany. And I do NOT mind hanging out with people of different ethnicity. It shouldn't be about an that anyways, but about the activities......
I wish there were distinct loud and quiet zones for third places. Former quiet places like religious sites, libraries, and others have become unbearably loud since I was young. It's not even the people inside these places as much as it seems to have become normal to have construction level noise everywhere most of the time. Of course people have to yell over it.
I grew up in a neighborhood that was just as many black, hispanic/latino, and white.....not as many asians though.
For a while I thought board game cafes might be able to become the new third space for our time. When you're playing tabletop games together in the same space with other people, you're all seeing each other try and sometimes fail, which humanizes us to one another and shows us that we don't have to be perfect or mistake-free to be accepted. Two problems though: those places are getting expensive, and people usually only play with the people they arrived with. When groups don't mix, it doesn't really create community.
So now I'm working with the people at the local public library to create a "free play" board game space a couple times a week. They're buying a bunch of games for the library, and I'm going to be there to recommend games to suit peoples tastes and moods. I'll also teach the rules to people who want to try games they haven't played before, and if somebody shows up with nobody to play with, I'll sit down and play with them until somebody else arrives who wants someone to join in.
I have no idea if it's going to work but it's the only thing I can think to do about this. Wish me luck.
that’s a lovely idea, i hope it goes well !!🫶
Now THAT's someone trying to fight a problem. Go you! Seriously with 0 inch of sarcasm I hope this goes well. Great, great idea!
Heck yeah! I hope it goes awesome! 😍🕺🏽
I like this a lot. The effort you’re putting in is more than the average person. I really hope it turns out well
This is awesome!
I recommend 'Fluxx' (or it's many iterations -- basically the same game with different themes, although some are a little more complicated than the original -- I like 'Nature Fluxx'). Also: 'Sleeping Queens' both of these games are quick & easy to learn & fun to play. ('Sleeping Queens' seems like a kids' game -- and was created by a kid -- but it's surprisingly enjoyable for all ages.)
Since they aren't complicated, it's easy to have conversations while playing.
Good luck!
A tío for everyone: stop trying to be the cool one who doesn’t need anyone. I see this attitude even within people who want to date each other! They compete to see who cares the least and holds the most power. Bad idea, that’s not cool that’s a recipe for loneliness and it’s a coping mechanism that comes from terror of rejection.
*a tip
So called "sigma" males needing to explain to their mom, why nobody sits with them during school break lmao
"They compete to see who cares the least" beautifully worded! They compete to see who is the most neglected child... some truly sad and lonely people...
it's not about not wanting to need people, it's about lacking places to go.
They say socialization is necessary for humans but when you try to talk to someone, they're like Ew loser, stare at your phone like everyone else.
Never been happier than since I left the US.
Isolation is not unique to the US, but you'd be surprised how much your mood improves when your home is within walking distance of a gym, several restaurants and coffee shops, and a rec center (and you can afford to go to them frequently and still save money).
Yo what country tho?
Outside of the US, I've lived in China, Thailand, and South Africa@@vesperschake6241
China was by far the most walkable, but all three are better than the US in terms of walkability.
The part where you said you still have money leftover is what’s stopping me in my tracks-
@@lizziedeerest It's the best part. It's nice to be able to spend without hating yourself for enjoying yourself.
i gotta get out of here.
My third place as a teenager was my local outdoor basketball court. ever since the pandemic, the court has been consistently empty. every once in a while i play pickup with a few strangers, but the communities that were built on that court don’t exist anymore…the pandemic definitely affected my social life negatively and has made it even harder to find a healthy community.
People’s health too :/
Nothing is the same anymore. It's like everything shifted after 2021
A lot of third places that were hanging on died during the pandemic. You couldn't gather in groups and that's what those places were for. At least some resturanuts hung on because their main function was food.
Keep trying -- others probably miss it, too.
Even just going to a park and reading a book will get you glares and any type of coffee or tea shop just rushes you out and isnt set up to socialize the closest ive had to a 3rd place since leaving church has been a martial arts dojo but that was costing over 100 a month and i couldnt keep that up i love socializing despite my autism im an extrovert and having no where to just exist outside my house is hell and it was even worse when i was a teenager because at least now i can pay to go somewhere when your younger theres literally no where
wishing you the best :)
@j.kkidding9764 ya the town I grew up in had a great one the town I'm now in not so great
Hard relate as a fellow autistic person living in a town with not much at all
Find a Greek Orthodox Church. They do coffee hour after each service too.
But more importantly. It’s the true ancient church.
@@thatoneradicalizedprussian225 I am also artistic and despite begin in an urban setting the only thing I can do is stay after school her practice no one touch with the intention of spending time
Growing up this was really hard. I was bullied at school, by students AND teachers mind you, then came home to be abused by my parents. The lack of third spaces made me withdraw mentally and I still struggle to be mentally present at any moment since I spent all my formative years hiding inside my mind.
Ayyyyyyy same
i’m so sorry that’s been your experience i really hope you find your community in this life
I'm studying Geography and this is an aspect of geography that most people forget or even don't know: human geography. The distribution of people and culture across space is always in flux, but as you said, there's increasingly little emphasis on spaces where the explicit purpose is to build community and to not just form but *maintain* human connection. Every place seems to be either production or consumption now, no room to just live and understand one another as members of a whole. Think about how many people like to sit outside at restaurants for the explicit purpose of "people-watching". We are yearning so badly to see each other in relation to one another, not just separating each person as an individual. You're told you shouldn't be anywhere for too long or you're wasting time, be it yours or someone else's. It's depressing.
Very fascinating that local music scenes never came up once during this entire video. DIY venues throwing all ages concerts in the late 90s/early 00s in Central Florida were how I got deeply connected into local music scenes, which ultimately led to a lot of the bands in the local scene (Anberlin, Copeland, Underoath, etc.) blowing up because there was nothing else other than movies or the mall for us teens to do so we would drive up and down Central Florida to support our friends (and friends of friends) at their various concerts. IMO local music scenes are really an untapped opportunity for people of all walks (but may not share exactly the same ideals) to congregate, make friends, collaborate creatively, and be directly impactful to the local community/economy.
100%
If you still have this in the US, lucky you! In Switzerland, this died out around the 2000's, when everything became standardised to cather to the hip hop /r'n'b crowd, coupled with the generalised indoor smoking ban... In a matter of 2 years, all the venues either closed down or were refurbished to please the money - worshipping and flexing , brands-flaunting crowds of gangsta rap fans, and came to know the fun of gang fights and stabbings... 😒
I miss the little rock clubs so much! 🥺
hmmmm @@Johnny_T779
There are no local music scenes unless you're in a big city and going to a bar or club which ofc is going to have an age restriction because they serve alcohol. There's no money to be made in low cost venues when utilities alone are going to bankrupt any business owner.
Yes ❗️❗️❗️ I love going to local shows esp at house venues
i'm a college student who lives in campus during the semester. living on campus has given me the only third space i've ever been in in my life. i get to hang out with a bunch of people at a longue on campus, without planning first, which is free and great for someone like myself who doesn't like having to constantly plan in advance. plans get canceled on me all the time, but that doesn't happen at that longue. now that i'm home for the summer, i find myself being restless and bored, with no third place to go to. it doesn't help that personal and medical issues left me unable to get a job this summer. going to college made me realize that i'm not the problem when it comes to my social life, but a lack of spaces built for people my age is the problem.
College was marvellous. Living on campus is the best thing that ever happened to me. Thousands of friends and acquaintances. It has spoiled me. Everything after that seems so 'meh' now.
So true! It's probably why so many people love and miss their college days. I heard someone call college a "friend buffet". In college I would go to the student lounge or library and always see people I knew.
I'm a commuter student and wish I could live on campus. It's so isolating.
have you tried the library.
@@bijoux873 same :(
My teenage years are far behind me but even as a single adult approaching "mid-life", I still feel the lack of 3rd space. I've recently come to learn that at least part of my introverted nature is due to not having many other options for socialization. Trying to meet new people is so hard.
Yeah, I feel the same thing.
As a teenager in suburban America, car dependency and the lack of third places can make life kinda depressing. Even if you have money to do something, if you don't have access to a car and a license you can't go anywhere without asking parents to take you there.
aa same! :( not only does it feel like the only which way to escape is outside your home, it is hard to build meaningful connections in public places because no one has a big enough incentive to be willing to do so. (let alone find people with similar opinions, hobbies and/or interests as you) So you retreat. but where? at home. Wishing you the best of luck though!
is there no public transport nearby at all ???
@@sophiadaly4712sadly the gross mega-tracts of identical homes began being really implemented in the 90’s and early 2000’s (still continuing today). It’s also deeply depressing as an American having very similar experiences. Family owned garden centers and hardware stores were killed by Wal-Mart/Target. Even small towns have no small businesses anymore and everyone drives an hour+ to the nearest walmart. Hospitals get overwhelmed quickly because there’s so few even in big cities. It’s absolutely wild. I watched several important trauma center hospitals closed down due to funding cuts and replaced with shopping centers and couple of charter schools (another awful can of worms).
@@Envy_May there are busses but I've never tried them so idk how useful they are, they are free for minors tho
It’s no better in rural America
As a teen, I liked to just cycle around the neighbourhood (usually to clear my head after school and just get some air). My father always insisted we greet everyone we saw while out and about, regardless of whether we knew them (and granted, the town I grew up in was small enough to not make that a hassle). So that's what I started doing on my cycling rounds too. Over the years I had an increasing number of people greeting me back, or making one sentence small talk with me, commenting on my route, the weather, things like that. Non of it was major, except for an elderly man a bit further from my home, who I'd always meet walking his dog. I soon learned where he lived (by virtue of passing by his garden often enough) and on occasion he'd stop me to chat, more and more over the years. I learned about his grandkids. I told him about school. Just small talk.
Then I moved out of the town, some years passed, and I found myself back at my parents when the pandemic hit. I was pretty sick at the time, and in an attempt to feel less miserable, I went out to cycle again.
I passed by the street the man lived at, saw him walking his dog, and he stopped me again, making small talk. I don't even know how he recognised me, I hadn't seem him for about 5 years at that point, and had changed my look a lot. But we talked for almost an hour. He updated me on his grandkids, we discussed the pandemic. He told me about his medical problems, brought up by the pandemic, that he didn't have a good prognosis. I didn't tell him about my own issues, instead I told him about what I'd been up to in those five years. He shared that he felt we'd been losing sight of what mattered in the pandemic, that he missed his neighbourhood get-togethers. The talk made both of us pretty emotional.
Honestly, getting out, talking to this man with a whole different life and yet the very same struggles as me, made me feel better than I had felt in weeks back then.
I still don't know his name. He doesn't know mine either.
That sounds like a great connection. Could you perhaps go visit him with your father and invite him round for coffee? Then your families will be connected as friends.
Thanks for sharing that lovely story. Have you had the chance to see how he and his trusty dog are doing, considering his health and all? It would be good to come by and offer help or something if you are able.
I think I'm going to make a point of greeting total strangers now. Even if it's just a "good afternoon" or "good morning" and a smile.
I try to do this myself, having seen/heard so many good stories from just saying hello to people and wishing them a good day.
I work retail, which supplies many opportunities for sociability. But it is both torture and pleasure, tough work with not enough pay at the same time as the pleasurable experience of helping solve someone else’s problems. 😊
A little S&M now that I think about it. 😂
@@jeannineflores3623pl
I lament the teenage existence. I was already isolated as a teen, but it hurts like hell to watch every teen after me have nowhere to go, no one who wants them there, and no way to get to these non-existent places. I understand being a little afraid of teens when they congregate. But that’s because the ones who do have radically done so have become tough and mean just so they can. I don’t even like teenagers as a whole. I really don’t. They can be unnecessarily evil when they swarm. But I think a huge part of the reason some become *those kids* is because they aren’t getting the kind of society that’s going to include them, teach them, or lift them up.
Dude. Your'e forgetting adults aren't much better. In fact, at times they become much worse when they swarm.
It's truly bizarre how many problems in the first world are completely self created. We made outside suck then went on to blame it on everything else under the sun. The same zoning laws have created housing crises everywhere. And the best solution municipal officials can think of is bulldozing the tents of people that have literally nowhere to go. It's a weird point where we have the ability to be better but lack the willingness.
It really is so much a culture issue as well. We spent a lot of time removing kids from places but what Elliot didn’t really touch in is that we have also made a culture of over-fearing for kids. The whole stranger danger culture got out of hand and now a lot of people who grew up after the 90s has an innate cynicism towards strangers. I think the reason why people rarely just approach strangers to talk is because they rightly fear being viewed as as a intruder into their personal space and a potential threat towards their safety. Now unless it’s in a facilitates social context (at school, work, any social clubs you may be a part of) people don’t know how to engage with strangers and don’t want to
I consider that to be initial thought on why Gen Z especially the Zoomers nowadays do not know how to make small talk with a stranger (in case of someone they do not personally know that well). The Stranger Danger Epidemic in the 1990s has killed our expedition to let children socialize outside of their little homes and away from family members without feeling anxious and threatened so consciously.
We killed the “Third Place” Venue for our children apparently due to increase exponential growth of high risk of inner city Youth Violence, Gun Violence, Mass Shooters trying to gun down a bunch of strangers, or what we could definitely CALL out on Schoolground Violence when it comes to epitome and threats of School Shooters and School Shootings.
I’m not inferring that we are societally responsible as a collective, for why people including Gen Z’ers and younger generations after Generation Z have to fear their lives including Millennials and Generation Alpha.
This is making me pessimistic and a sense of optimist bias because we can fix this. We need to stop letting media corporations control and monitor our lives and livelihoods. 💔
@@mariamart_0 A lot of it stems from a combination of shock-content, single parenthood, broken extended families and the rise in lit. igato n. Going down the line:
- News focuses on shock. Plenty of people believe the world is getting/has gotten worse overall precisely due to the fact they see more bad things, despite them being less common than in the past.
- Single-parentood and broken extended families. A single parent with few people to rely on has their child(ren) as their main focus. It's ENTIRELY up to them. There is no support network. There are no "taking turns" with the spouse to watch the kids. There's no "if I'm 20 miles away and there's an emergency, I know I can call a relative to help til I can get there." Overreactions, helicopterism, latchkey-parenting, and n .arcis .sistic parental attitudes can all spawn from this.
- Rise in lit. igato n. On the other end of it, the fact parents can get so rabid and worked up if anything happens to their children has caused fear. Even if a kid is fully in the wrong, the parent may still try to go after the place. Fear of that scenario has caused many to push kids away. It's not out of disdain.
while i partially agree with you, "shizz3907", keep in mind THERE REALLY ARE modern dangers in going up and talking to strangers. And you are not being specific enough. What do these strangers look like? IF they are Muslims NO WAY CAN A WOMAN walk up to a man muslim without repercussions, and that is just in america. ALSO, if you are a white male or even a male woman, it IS NOW DANGEROUS to go up and talk with a black stranger, because they are trained to hate you or take advantage of you. Not all are bad, but come on. The culture and the WOKE ideology teaches that many whites are bad people. I don't want to be a victim.
@@Aubreykun Lol why tf are you censoring "litigation" and "narcissistic" like that? RUclips doesn't censor those words
@@LordVader1094 It does. Or at least does for me. RUclips will make the comment "appear" to go through, and you can see it on your end, but then if you check the comment thread (by right clicking the OP's time stamp) in a private window, it'll be hidden.
The original comment I made I had to rewrite because it did that. Probably based on context rather than pure words.
I’m so glad I have a name for this. When I was a teenager in suburbia it was normal to spend the average Saturday night loitering in multiple big box stores. It was weird how I had to put emotional stock in places like these places and project a “home” onto them, whereas my mom who was from the city had parks, clubs, places that have their own culture to do so with instead. I embraced how mundane everything was and now I have a love hate relationship with it. The average American town is mostly made of transitionary spaces. Not places to exist in. Just places in between the few places you do regularly exist in. Mine has no downtown to walk around but people will assume you’re poor if they see you walking along the highway.
Teens aren't the only ones who suffer from this lack of third places. All of us suffer because of it. The reason teens seem to be suffering the most is because the older folks had those third places when we were teens.
Many past third places were businesses - malls, rollar rinks, bars, etc. - they close because there are not being supported by the community. You are also right in that urban renewal and the increase of suburbs are part of the problem.
I ask: So, how do we correct that?
I worked at a conservation organization ran by the government, it brought people from all over the state to work together and live together. It awakened a social being in me I never knew I was capable of, everyone knew my name and I knew theirs it was a major shock to me I almost felt I didn’t deserve it. I was put on a fire crew and did well I learned things faster and was always outside that allowed us as a community to go to just about anywhere and make that our third space outside of our shared jobs and living spaces. Before everyone worked on the same farm for the same cause and that brought them together and inspired them to make spaces and sacred ceremonies brought them together.
Part of the problem is zoning and land use. All third spaces need, well, spaces. This means real estate, which is increasingly costly. Zoning in large part was designed to protect property values, but perhaps has worked too well. Malls, roller rinks, bars, pool halls, etc. have to pay for themselves, part of which is the cost of the underlying real estate. The same forces driving up this cost is also contributing to increased housing cost. The two walk hand in hand.
I took a human geography class and the unit where we learned about rapid urbanization was truly so maddening and I absolutely despise car centric layouts for cities. Copenhagen Denmark is an excellent model where they made a pedestrian centric city layout and my gosh it’s beautiful. Plus, it allows kids to have autonomy which is so crucial for their development and overall wellbeing. Our governments prioritize big corporations and money over their society’s mental stability and then wonder why so many of us become burnt out or have so many mental struggles.
It's kind of embarrassing to say but living in an incredibly car-dependent area, despite being 18 I still rely on my parents for everything. They haven't taught me to drive and only recently got me my ID, and i'm only now getting a job because my sister will be able to drive me. Even my parents, as oblivious as they can be, have slightly noticed this. I still remember when I managed to get a friend to go to the mall with me, and when I was walking around a shop with my mom she told me it was ok to walk around the store by myself. I understood her, but I still kept within like 8 feet of her at all times just doing other stuff on my phone, without even thinking about it. When she pointed that out that was when I realized just how attached i've been made to my parents. It really sucks man. I really don't like living like this. I spend all my days playing video games instead of going to parks and public spaces and socializing. I remember my siblings poking fun at me when I said I wanted to go with my family to their Everglades trip, saying i'd have my face attached to a screen the whole time. But instead I only took in the beauty of the Everglades and completely forgot about phones. I miss that trip. Sorry if I got too personal, I hardly have a place to talk about this sort of stuff and this kind of seemed like it fit.
@@AVI-lh6rm This kind of experience is so common now, and people wonder why there's so many who are depressed or anxious, they never get the chance to go and have some fun out in the world on their own terms...
@@AVI-lh6rm I feel pretty bad that I'm in the exact same situation as you when it comes to parents and lack of socialization/"useful skills", but I'm in my 20s
Also bike-friendly, with fewer pedestrian deaths.
I'm not some person who is anti-car or anything like that but that probably is an issue. Plus relying on cars made in a sweatshop in china isn't exactly the best idea anyway
I've thought about telling 'lonely' people online that if they want a community they should take up a trading card game and hang around the game shop, like MtG/YGO/Pokemon. A lot of my lifelong friends have come from the local game shops and I've met a ton of people from all different backgrounds. But then I realize I've got thousands of dollars in YGO cards just to support myself playing the game in any competent way, every tournament is $10 to enter, you have to have a car to drive to the shop, and realize that yeah, capitalism really has sucked the life out of almost everything physical. Why play a physical TCG for thousands when online simulators like Magic Arena or YGO Master Duel exist for wayyyyyyy less (even free). Even though I'm lucky to have a 'third space' where I see a lot of different people, everyone there is blessed in some way because we all have collections easily reaching into the thousands of dollars and that is definitely not feasible for everyone or it's a huge ask for someone just getting into the scene.
That's how my brother found some friends to hang with.
That's how I made friends in high school, but over time it just got too expensive. I applaud you for your self awareness too, you don't see that often
Everyone, please switch to proxies and counterfiets, yes, even those of you who can afford legit cards.
Drop the stigma against it so everyone can play.
Your LGS doesn't care, all they want is people in seats, and the odd precon or booster purchase.
@@NodTheNood I appreciate that. It's why I've only ever thought about telling people to do it but never actually given that advice. I'm fortunate that I have a car and a job that pays enough to support all of my hobbies. I'm fortunate that I live in a populated area with tons of game shops and a very vibrant community. But a lot of people don't have that. They didn't choose where to grow up they were just simply left behind by capitalism and the "American Dream" as companies eventually leave entire communities to chase more profits elsewhere.
I'm too stupid and bad at math to understand card games, nevermind play them well.
nice video! This is a huge issue, I'm a little bit disappointed that you didn't mention car dependency in America as I think they're highly related to the lack of third places, loneliness, housing crisis, etc. It'd be great to see a second part of this video, talking about car dependency and the "new" Urbanism movement.
This! If you don't have a license and your parents can't take you where you want to go, you're out of luck in most places in the US.
it sucks :( I hate driving but I have to if I wanna get anywhere.. i wish cities were designed less for cars and more for the people
I think America's car culture in general stripped us of any connection to a larger community. I'm never in cars, I don't drive, and I live in NYC so I can take public transit. When I worked I have seen customers get on the same bus as I do, like half an hour after I rang them up. I've rang up neighbors dozens of times. I took an uber once, and we went on the highway, I felt mad isolated. Other people couldn't be recognized as anything other than a threat, rightfully so since cars are dangerous. But that could have a larger impact than we realize since some parts of America are also exclusively highway.
@vvitch-mist20 yea in big/walkable cities you can connect with people because you're walking and taking transit so you actually see more people, and third places help with this too. When you're in a car, people in and out of cars are just obstacles
@@kaitlyn_stark
Exactly. Everyone becomes an enemy even if you aren't in a car.
I hate how normalized it is to avoid talking to people, my family always looks weird at me when I sit to talk with the neighbors around the local store, the shopkeeper even has chairs and a parasol for people to sit and talk comfortably, one can learn a lot from the people around us, an old gatekeeper, a mechanic and an excon are helping me build a gun that I dreamt of, without their knowledge and tools I could never, they have each their own hobbies too, the gatekeeper used to be a dance teacher and the excon likes to make furniture, it's so pretty to learn about the community around us but sadly it's being stripped away slowly
I was a teen in the 80s. Individuation existed then IRL as much as it does now online. We had tribes very distinct one from the other (punks, rastas, metalheads, goths, preppies, skinheads, B-boys aka hip hop fans, geeks), and usually had each our headquarters. The difference is that we physically interacted and yes, cheap places were plenty.
However, I much more prefer a virtual fight than a real one! (oh boy, there were actual fights between tribes that disliked each other, I still remember a skinhead group beating up B-boys in the street with baseball bats 😱! And we had to fight off jocks who came into our goth club because they were harassing girls and were homophobic pricks ). There will always be human groupings according to preferences and tastes, it's human nature. But we need desperately physical in person contacts ! Seems we are all scattered around, and eaten up by busy work schedules, with no time left to socialise.
Internet makes it seem that talking to teens is sus, so we are afraid to do it. Hey, didn't it occur to some fear mongers that not every adult interacting with a kid is a groomer? I'm interested in the new, and to stay informed of what's new I need to ask those who know about it most! I don't want to drown in nostalgia, and a good way to do it is to socialise with the younger ones.
Good video, very true.
My dad (I'm brazilian) was a teen in the 80' as well. I always felt kinda sad that he lived his youth with so much things to do. He used to go to clubs and parties and shows (he was a punk, and so were his friends). He told me that my grandpa used to play domino with the neighbors at the park. My dad's family wasn't rich, on the contrary, and their neighborhood wasn't the safest, yet it was still a community. I always saw this with a kind of fascination, and I think that's why I love so much to interact with the elderly and with children. I love to see how different generations interact, process and transform the world around them, even if it's the same that my generation it's on. I'm currently 20 year old and work directly with kids from the age 4 to 14, so I see a large range of thoughts, world views and experiences. If you want to interact with people younger than you in safer spaces (without the risk of scaring them or being seen as a groomer) I recommend working as a volunteer to visiting hospitals and orphanages. Religious groups from different faiths do this a lot and it's so nice! You can also subscribe to a language learning school, cause some of them have different age groups in the same classroom. The same goes for music classes. There's a lot of things that unite different ages in safe spaces and provide a lot of nice and interesting interactions.
“Seems we are all scattered around and eaten up by busy work schedules” (socialism intensifies)
@@nerdwisdomyo9563can socialism start intensifying yet capitalism is kicking my ASS
@@wren_. yes. The more capitalist and are modern capitalist system fails you, the more socialist ideas seem appealing.
I was a child in the 80s, teen of the 90s and my smallish town had social groups like that too, but I didn’t belong to any of them so I didn’t see any interactions between the groups.
I do prefer internet interactions because I can actually find people like me that I can relate to. And since I’m autistic I do find interacting with younger people more fulfilling because they are much more open minded and more like minded, but I am also extremely fearful of interacting with them because I don’t want to be labeled as a predator. Which is also really sad because older people can be mentors and allies to the youth who may not have that kind of support at home. So I end up spending a lot of time with my young adult children. I hope things get better soon.
thank you for finally putting it into words - i've been trying to figure out why i can't bring myself to go out and socialize until realizing it's because i'm terrified of spending too much money and the outside environment is literally too hostile to allow for just vibing. we literally fine people for standing outside of buildings and call it "loitering". it just feels impossible to not be a shut-in and it feels worse when you hear older folks talk about how they used to be able to go to parties and do all these insane things and keep their doors open and unlocked all the time. a wild time to be alive
Lol white people get so suspicious of black people standing outside the grocery store when white people stand outside the church.
It's harder to socialize, but still possible. See the other comments for ideas.
@@miriamrobarts ideas like what? Go to a silent-space designed against interaction like a library? Spend a couple hundred bucks on a tab at a bar? You sound very confident considering there AREN'T a whole lot of ideas floating around this comment section.
@@drendenoxendine3491 Part of the reason I said to check the comments was because I had already noted some ideas in comments already.
One thing that I'm noticing in this comment section is that people seem to either come up with ideas on their own & look for resources around them (put in some work), or they expect others to provide for them. Which kind of person do you want to be?
Sure, it would take A LOT of time to read through all the comments & replies here and write down all the ideas, but if you are looking for things to do, you should have a little extra time to work on figuring out things to do. But to give you a kickstart, I'll write some ideas here.
A lot of libraries aren't just silent spaces anymore. Many have activities & events. The ones near me have book clubs, game meetups, movies, events with authors, art & crafting meetups, workshops, etc. Check to see if your local library has a website, or go talk to the librarians about events. If they don't have any, you can suggest things you'd like to see, or volunteer to organize an activity.
Try volunteering. You will naturally visit with people you are working with. If you don't know where to start, check out www.justserve.org You can search by location, date, & interest.
Organize an event to meet your neighbors. One of our neighbors set up a 'National Night Out' (see natw.org ). We just met up in her driveway to chat & have some snacks. It doesn't have to be elaborate.
Go to a busy place like a mall's food court & start drawing. I've heard artists say people stop & want to see what they are drawing when they work in public. Even if you can't draw, say you just started learning. People are usually happy to encourage beginners. You could even make a sign that says, "Free bad drawings" or something funny like that.
You could also draw with sidewalk chalk at a city park & let others join in.
Go to church. A lot of churches have social activities.
Check local game shops. My brother met his best friend at a game night at a store.
Walk a dog or take it to a dog park. If you don't have one, offer to take a friend or neighbor's dog out. (Most dogs have lots of extra energy & it would be doing them a favor!) People feel like it's ok to approach someone to meet the dog. And people naturally chat at the dog park. (Just remember to bring plastic bags to clean up after the dog or you'll make enemies instead of friends!) If you have a cat, you can teach them to walk on a leash. It takes a lot more time, patience, & effort, but will attract even more attention.
What are you interested in? Search for clubs for that topic in your area.
Search online for "free events in [your city]". I just tried this & learned that a local theater has a free family movie once a month, and about a free Diwali festival, & a free Fall Festival coming up nearby. You can also try searching on www.eventbrite.com which has a filter to search for free events in your city.
Remember that “You get out what you put in”. Start looking for what you can do, and you'll figure it out. Good luck!
@@drendenoxendine3491 One of the libraries near where I live has a room with game consoles (some couch co-op titles on there) and a bunch of musical instruments. Electric drum kit, a bunch of guitars. Bongos. When I've been there I've seen younger kids, teenagers and older adults all doing their thing. There is also a more traditional part of the library where people are going to study, but there is plenty more to it than just that.
As a grown white man who loves spending time with kids, I feel the burden of social eyes judging me for smiling at children in supermarkets and chatting nonsense with babies on the bus (the only place I see kids anymore, ya know), now that I don't look "harmless" like I did when I was younger. I look like a threat now, fat and tall and scraggly-haired. :(
I would LIKE to be part of a community of non-related adults that help entertain and support younger kids and teens to help take the burden off of parents, but the parents are so wired to see danger and it isolates ME. I get WHY, but like... I'm still sad about it.
That is pretty sad
A lot of men in my social circle feel the same way. Some even started to resent themselves for just being men because they’re constantly looked at with judgement and fear. I wish we could all realize that we just want to feel accepted
As a queer woman I feel this way too. I want to be nurturing but because I look visibly different to a "normal" woman I fear being seen as a predator by parents and society in general. also because of bigotry = the gays and trans are corrupting the children rhetoric. I would like to have my own kids one day, and maybe this will help me get over this fear. I imagine it's much worse for men though.
This is male privilege for you. Strangers by default treat you like a threat. If possible bring a woman with you when you try these. It's guaranteed to be disarming. I know this doesn't solve the issue but its a really effective workaround.
Kids used to be kept safe by adults watching them play, out of the joy of it. Now, an adult randomly watching children play MUST be a molester....
One thing I realised as I got older was that socialising with people costs money, weather it’s transport weather it’s refreshments for the event (Can’t be that one dude without food) the space itself, increasing amounts of money too.
I struggle as an adult sometimes with this, so what chances to our teens have? No wonder the current generation of teenagers and younger people are so awkward and weird and dumb, they’ve not been able to learn how the world works, he’ll I rarely see small children play outside anymore and that’s how I personally began to learn about the world
On thing i’ve noticed since moving to a new country is the amount of 3rd spaces. I feel that at least old adults have lively social lives because of the fact that the can meet their friends in the courtyard of their buildings or in the local park. Also the fact that parks are more numerous and there’s always activity in them including group dances. The US where I am is lacking in that resulting in older people slowly being excluded from social life.
An interesting third space is temples that allow students to study in them. I haven’t noticed as many things for teens to do but I think it’s because they are in school for so long everyday that there isn’t as much of a focus on them. I see lots of activities for kids and older adults but not as much for teens.
So true! Then add in the fact that as some people get older, they can't drive at night, or can't really drive at all - and then are forced to basically just be completely isolated because of all the car dependency
@@sara61696 definitely, where I am is pretty easy to navigate by bus but quite a few of them can still ride mopeds or bike everywhere which makes it easier for them to come outside. and even if they can’t they can at least come outside to talk to the neighbors in the courtyards between the buildings. I feel like a lot of apartments in the US don’t set aside planning for communal green spaces or make good use of mixed housing+daily convinceces like the bank or convenience store.
I thought having kids prevents you from being lonely when old.
@@CordeliaWagner??? Adults still need relationships with people their age. What, do you think everyone should ONLY be friends with their kids once they hit 65? What the hell is wrong with you?
In the process of writing an entire 7k semiotics thesis about stairs (they're a capitalistic fetish; don't ask), recently I realized how many of my adult anxieties are tied to a sense of loss for the neighbourhood I grew up in. I come from Montreal, which has these pretty unique twisty outdoor stairs that are very recognizable in its most hip and well-known (read: gentrified) neighbourhoods, including the Mile-End, which is where I grew up. When I was a kid it was heaven: artsy, full of crowded cafés, murals and street art, lgbtq folk, community libraries, affordable second-hand stores, immigrant-owned-and-run businesses, restaurants, food markets where the employees knew us by face. So much of who I am as an adult was developed in that community, and so much of what I'm looking to replicate now comes from those experiences. I moved away the minute I left my parent's house; I probably will never afford to live there again as an adult. My parents were an in-between wave of gentrification, and now they too are being priced out. The neighbourhood is different too, with local businesses being replaced by chains, the gay community having left by the 2010s, all the classic signs of gentrification. And I don't know where to find that community anymore. I don't know how to build it from scratch.
There was a point in the essay that was about the pandemic, and what the stairs became then. Basically, in Montreal, if during lockdown you wandered into the neighbourhoods that have these outdoor stairs on residential buildings, they were always full of people mingling: they made for such a perfect in-between space, where folk could socialize in compliance with distancing requirements. Because they're so unique and visually recognizable, they really solidified this sense of community engagement and solidarity. For the lockdown months, the Mile-End *was* those stairs. They were the third place when all other places were closed. Then the rest of the essay talks about how capitalism repurposed that symbol as a way of profiting off of property values, etc., etc. But I feel like a lot of my life has fallen into that pattern: oh look at this cool thing! Isn't it nice and doesn't it bring us together as a diverse group of people? Now watch it be commodified and used as a tool for marginalization. Welp.
I like to walk up stairs?
I would love to read your thesis when it is done
If you don't mind, I would really love to read your thesis ! This is exactly the kind of thing you wouldn't immediately think about yet there seems to be so much to say !
If you like social activities on stairs, check out Valletta in Malta. Most restaurants and bars just put cushions on them with little tables to enjoy the evening.
I feel like a lot of my life has fallen into that pattern: oh look at this cool thing! Isn't it nice and doesn't it bring us together as a diverse group of people? Now watch it be commodified and used as a tool for marginalization. Welp." This quote sums up my experience with everything I've ever been into my whole life and in my 30s I'm TIRED. There was a brief period like 5 years ago where it was almost like so many of "my" communities got gentrified at once that it was almost like being fashionable, now it's hitting that point PLUS everything I wanted to do as a teen but couldn't because of my strict family is hitting trends for teens and I'm just... Tired. It feels like there's no way to speak to anyone about anything- I travel and it's just the same as staying home.
I grew up as a disabled teen without much money in a rapidly gentrifying neighborhood. I would get ejected from book stores, Malls and comic book stores even though I was very quiet and reserved purely because I looked out of place it my beat-up hand me downs. My one Third place was my non-profit community junior theatre, and it was really good for us youths to interconnect with slightly older and younger generations we might not otherwise befriend and gave us a space to mature together, it welcomed kids 8 to 18 to work on plays together. There would be productions for older kids, and younger kids- but there was a big emphasis on collaboration, and most plays had the full age range.
Then the city took it over, and they eliminated the teenagers from that space. They opened programs for eight year olds to perform plays, and for adults to put on plays for 8 year olds. We were all displaced.
Anywhere we went we were now 'loitering'.
It really gutted me.
That is probably part of the reason the social media generation seems so disconnected. The older generation completely cutting off the youngsters. Plus the older teens and younger kids having zero interaction too. Having zero role models and zero mingling must be damaging in social development in ways we don't understand. I wonder if this contributes to people not wanting to have kids in the future. Having little to no experience around any kids at all when there used to be opportunities.
I didn’t realise they were called third places. These are in abundance where I live. The library, botanical gardens, the parks, the man made lagoon, the NASARA (this literally translates to ‘the meeting place’ or ‘place to gather’), the games cafe, these are all free places to gather with your friends and family. It’s soooo heartbreaking to hear that other towns don’t have these.
Lets move into your town. lol😂
What town do you live in? Or country, whatever you're comfortable sharing
Same in Denmark where Inoften go to for work.
I was pretty isolated as a kid. My mom would never let me go anywhere without her unless it was school, because she didn’t want me to be “influenced” by bad people. The internet, Twitter for example, has been an extremely valuable sort of “third space” (yes I was in my bubbles but it was better than nothing) and it’s depressing seeing valuable internet communities be destroyed when we have such few alternatives
This plus the demonization of these virtual communities by people privileged enough to NOT have to resort to them. Adults don't seem to fully comprehend the limitations and anxiety that come with being a modern day child; you can't do anything, anywhere, with anyone during the most carefree years of one's life.
No wonder fandom culture and online activity have grown exponentially in the last decade. They're reflections of what the youth has come to create in order to keep themselves sane and together. A new, fascinating example of human's nature to find and belong in communties.
This is how I felt about tumblr. Tumble died right when I started college and it was ok because I was finally able to socialize without my super controlling parents. But idk how I would have gotten through high school being bullied and not allowed to go anywhere without the friends I made online
Even the social media groups got censored and shut down. There's no engagement anymore on Facebook. Another third space eliminated.
Motorisation and suburban zoning laws are also to blame. When you can’t just walk down to the local park or corner store, when the only way to get anywhere is to get in a car and drive an hour through endless suburbs, it becomes much easier to say, “screw it” and just stay home. Particularly for young people too young to drive.
It makes me so frustrated how difficult it is to meet people even if you ‘put yourself out there’. Many teens don’t leave their houses because there really isn’t any place to go (unless you are loitering or have money to spend) so even if you do go out it’s incredibly difficult to find people your age. I find you can’t really become friends with others outside of work or school unless someone else introduces you to them because you won’t run into teenagers who are willing (or friendly enough) to stop and have a conversation in public then in turn become your friend. It’s a cycle that feeds and supports itself.
I'm 18 years old. I almost never leave the house. The few times I do it's with my parents to go to a name-brand store or something. I haven't been taken to get my driver's license by them so i'm stuck here. Every day I wish there were places I could go to be myself and form bonds with other people, but instead I spent all day playing video games, or as I aptly describe it; rotting. The few times my parents can take me out to go out somewhere myself (usually once every couple of months, every 6 or so) it's really expensive for little payoff, like a theatre or bowling. I try to get the few friends I have to the park or something, but those plans always fall through. I don't really like living like this.
@@AVI-lh6rm If you can bike around your area, try that. I was in a very similar situation to you a couple of months. Biking allowed me much more freedom even if there wasn't other people with me.
Also, when you ask people to meet up a no is quickly done, too quickly. I'm in the netherlands, and when i ask folk to meet up i notice a covid kinda fear. Since covid, for me, everyone seems to have become more distant.
Same. It's really frustrating about the fact that back in the old days, it was a lot easier compared to nowadays. If you find nobody that interests you in school/college etc, then the system doesn't care about you, because they closed down all the third places.
yep, also the way psychology and social dynamics work means that when have the intent of meeting people there is already an inherent awkwardness that almost precludes making solid connections. That's the real benefit of "third places", is you can go there with a different intent and just meet people as a side effect. I always have to think about this Hitchickers Guide quote ""There is an art, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."". It's like this for finding friends and dating also.
after leaving college (which in itself is an entire third space in a way- i miss it so desperately) i found myself going pretty consistently to bars. not so much to drink, but just to see and meet people. i remember going to this one pub that was always so lively; there were regulars and live music and pool and it was fantastic! but then, i got offered coke in the bathroom. and i no longer really felt safe going by myself, and i don’t have anyone to go with me.
i am so starved for interaction with strangers that it hurts sometimes. i need to meet the world and all its people.
girl me too. i work at a hospital where i interned pre-pandemic, and i had made so many friends and acquaintances, during lunch break everyone would sit in the cafeteria together and talk and visit with each other. i came back to the same hospital to work part time, thinking i would have the same experience but it’s SO different after covid. nobody eats in the cafeteria, they all eat lunch by themselves in their office. i smile at people i walk by just for them to always avoid eye contact. the world has changed so much, im always looking for more ways to be a part of a community. the best option seems to be joining a club or something of that nature, which feels really scary now to put yourself out there like that and join a group of strangers. nowadays you have to work extra hard to not be isolated or even have a normal amount of friends/human interactions 😭
@@bambiisbonkersI would say to joining a club. I recently moved and had no friends. So I joined the womens social club in my area. They have tons of events and outings and you can go to all or even one event a month and it will be great. Definitely try sports clubs or gym clubs. Trust me. Everyone is feeling pretty lonely after the pandemic
I think another big part of the problem is everyone's busy lifestyle. I'm lucky to have a chill flexible schedule as an independent adult, but it's so hard to plan things with friends because they're busy and unresponsive most of the time. I don't blame any of them for not having the capacity to respond, but when it's the majority of your friends remaining silent when you DM them, particularly the only friends you could meet up with in real life, you really start to feel like you have no one outside your immediate family. :(
There's an episode of King of the Hill called "Uncool Customer." I feel like the attitude Katt Savage has in that ep has become ultra-common.
A lot of people nowadays get caught up in the rat race, trying to have experiences beyond their means because of status games. Like there's people rooting for brands as if they're sports teams. There's people sitting in line for days so they can buy a pair of fancy shoes... in order to scalp them so they can buy some other expensive status symbol.
I have this exact same experience! People just feel so passive after the pandemic..
Adult friends suck, they never have time to hang out.
My gf and I are very busy people, but always try to make time to hang out with others. But its always others that say they are too busy. I dont understand it honeslety.
working to survive and being exhausted from working can make a social life difficult
I was born the early 2000s and ive literally never had a sense of place except within online communities . Ive always loved art yet no where and no one else was there to express it with me.
try your local library. i know everybody else in the comments is saying it too, but i go to my library frequently and they have colored pencils, a few sharpies, and biweekly watercolor classes where they supply everything! stacks and stacks of extra paper too. and if you have your own supplies you can take those too.
2002 kid here and I find it difficult to make friends even online because usually I just have one singular interest in common with others, but I don't want to talk about JUST THAT TOPIC.
in the 1980s as a teen with no money or a car.
I had access to nothing.
then I found the local library.
be thankful you have the internet.
as for suburbia it is still hell on earth.
Try drawing in the park, a mall, cafe, or other public space. I've heard artists say people walk up to them & want to see what they're drawing.
I think this and the lack of affordable public transit go hand in hand. I live in a area without any public transit (like literally none at all) and because of a disability I can't drive. Even tho my area has some 3rd spaces, I'm unable to ever go to them due to having to pay at least $20 for uber. Even if you have a car here, gas also costs money. Lots of of people just can't afford to get to 3rd spaces around them, if they even exist.
I had youth clubs and a library that welcomed bored teens. Our local library is suspicious of teens and makes them feel unwelcome, there's lots of spaces in our town for elderly and families with young children, but hardly anything for teens and what little there is is very expensive. I wish there was more safe and welcoming spaces for teens
Being in college he definitely made me take having things like a third place for granted. This is one of the few environments that can uniquely serve this function. Much of our campus is built around third places for students to socialize and meet each other. I’m definitely dreading graduating as I feel like the social freedom and opportunities I have here just don’t exist in the real world
get ready to have to blow $50-$100 each day over the weeekend just to meet people 😭. 4 years graduated now and I’m starting to see more third places but it’s still highly encouraged to drink or overspend on okay food 😂.
so many of my friends have felt the crushing lack of third places after leaving university, most of us still have to live at home because housing is so expensive, and we can't go over to our families houses, so we can only hang out in restaurants and pubs which isn't cheap, but when it's not winter we try to go to parks, beaches, it's a little better cos we aren't teens anymore.
Exactly it's sad that this type of community is lost as an adult once you graduate
i graduated this past May and i realize now how much i had taken that for granted. the beginning of college was very fun but after covid and towards the end i fell into a deep depression and barely even left my room to go to class. i completely wasted those last precious months of freedom. I ended up getting a good job, moving to a new city, i have an apartment, the ability to buy the toys and games and clothes, but its fucking lonely. I live 15 minutes from work and like 20 from downtown where anything is happening. I drive to work, drive home, then its already dark out, then i spend a little time resting and its already almost time for bed.
excellent video. reminds me of how abusers in relationships isolate their victim to make them weaker... as we become more isolated and then even cling to our isolation because it feels "comfortable" or "safe", how much weaker are we all really growing?
That is a *very* interesting concept
Another good 3rd place where you can meet a lot of different people in the community, attend fun events, and where you're not expected to pay money to just exist in a space is your local library. I've seen so many people make friends through storytime, book club, anime club, plant swaps, etc. A good library will have something for everyone. And they tend to have computer and wifi access too.
I work at a public library, and we have so many people, all ages and all walks of life, just existing together, and it's kinda awesome. If you haven't been to your local library recently, check it out.
everyone thinks the library is lame so basically nobody comes there but me… (in my neighborhood i mean)
Good luck making any noise in mine...
“Local” library in my city is 30 minutes a
Away on car
I’ll take a look but I rarely see people my age 18-22 at the library.
I remember going to my local library just to see a tiny restroom where everyone are by themselves because NO noise was allowed
This is the most intelligent analysis of the situation I have seen. Just yesterday I was talking about having "no place to go." My friend criticized me for getting fossilized because I was not hanging out with young people, and I said "where would I do that? Young people in this town are invisible. If they hang out somewhere, I don't know where that is." I am a friendly person, and while not totally isolated, it seems very difficult to connect. Another thing I said in that conversation was "The town seems full of hip, interesting people, but they are completely inaccessible. They are not friendly, but are holed up in some "perfect personal space." It's like they are trying to live the illusion of the White Lotus, and feel their life is successful to the degree that it appears, from the outside, that they are doing great.
Haussmann’s project is said to have had certain political motives. Paris’ new boulevards and open spaces were designed in a way that made it more challenging for protesters to congregate and engage in large-scale demonstrations, potentially reducing the opportunities for political opposition to organize effectively.
That didn't stop them💀
Yes it was done after the revolt of the Paris Commune
Did that work cos….
This video is insightful. I grew up in the 1980's in a small village in France. Our third places were free. The river banks, the church square, fields, forests, the neighbor's cherry tree (with their permission). There was always a house nearby where someone's parents or grandparents lived that we could go to in case of trouble. We had a yearly village gathering called "Soiree choucroute", a fund raiser for the village school. A sizeable fraction of the village gathered in the community center to eat sauerkraut and drink beer. The kids ate for a bit then went outside to play. After desert, room was cleared for a dance floor. I danced my first waltz as a teenager with one of the village's elders. The band was constituted of my friends dads and local farmers. It was a full mixing of social classes and generations. There were frictions, but that's also a positive learning experience for a child or young adult.
That sounds exactly what these places should be like! I'm in London as a teenager now and I go to collage (it's different in the uk, not really a campus life type thing, more like "more relaxed school" and we're all on different times. The way it's set up feels like I never see anyone and there are no clubs). The whole town feels like everyone is having a competition to acknowledge eachother the least as they walk by, and there are zero places for us to sit down and relax to meet new people.
I've only realized how bad it's been effecting me since the start of summer and I've been trying all summer to get out there and meet people. This video actually summarized the problems I've been having perfectly. The environment that you've been in sounds exactly what I've been trying to find, but unfortunately that's not what it's like where I live.
That sounds like heaven.
hey, do you still live in the village? if not, where are you rn!!
@@chipichipichapa No, I left for college and never came back (not even to France, I immigrated to the United States). I kept in touch with a childhood friend who stayed nearby. The village has grown significantly and turned suburban. There are sidewalks now and a few 3 story appartment buildings near the church square. It's a short commute to the major Geneva/Annemasse metropolitan area. I don't know that it's still as vibrant, though. We lost our resident priest in the late 1980's because the church was not filling and our parish was merged with one in town. One of the farms is still operating, but the other has shut down. They were slowing down already when I was a kid (no-one to take it over).
I live in a housing development that used to be woods, and I don't drive, so I haven't left the house in two weeks. It's deeply isolating to think about how far I'd have to walk in each direction to even go to the store. It really does feel like this type of suburban life is a display of personhood rather than an actual experience.
Where I live there’s a lot of woods but it’s vanishing very quickly into houses. Such a shame
Why dont you drive? Seems kinda silly since its the only effective way to get around. Unless your under 16 in that case its kinda irrelevant
Bicycles are safe, cheap, modes of transport that increase your life expectancy. Cars are great for distance and transporting people/lots of things, but a bike for sub-2 or sub-5mi trips is something most people should have.
Man the the bit about the mall is too accurate, me and two other friends were harassed by a security guard for skating OUTSIDE the mall, with no other people around. What's even dumber was that i had literally bought my skateboard that same day from a skate store inside the mall. Spent a bunch of money to learn a new thing and hangout with friends and got to enjoy it for a good 30 minutes before getting kicked out of an empty outside plaza.
learning about third places about a year ago I realized why I always wanted to go to cafes to either do homework or to simply eat and read a book. just being in an area with others can brighten up your mood and make you feel better. ive recently dropped out of college and finding third places near me that arent school related is really difficult (especially as I live in one of the most unwalkable cities in the US) this video was amazing and I hope it reaches more young people and encourages them to be more open to talking to strangers :)
I'm really realizing the impact of not having 3rd places in my life. I don't have any friends (all the ones I've made in school aren't living anywhere near me) and it is almost impossible to make new ones because there isn't a place to go to do this.
Sure, I could join a club of some kind (and I did at one point play go with the local go club), but it is hard for me to stay consistent with that, and since the focus is on a specific thing, it seems weird to try to form close relationships. It doesn't help that I'm a girl and most of my interests are heavily male dominated. I wish there was a place I could go to, exist there, and form connections with people naturally.
@@lucidragon5260I feel you , it’s hard when ur not in school anymore
Same here! I often times went (and still often do) go to a Starbucks or other coffee place when I wanted to get work done without realizing why. It is only when I started hearing people talk about third places and when I took a vacation to Europe and saw what well designed cities could provide that I realized what we are missing here in the USA.
And while the previously mentioned coffee shops go some way in providing a third place, they are not nearly enough.
as a chronically homeless "youth" i have been threatened for even approaching other people in public parks, told i was loitering when i was trying to find dollarama in a mall and kicked out by security. at the beginning of the pandemic i had a room to rent and was still chronically lonely as the pandemic decimated any hope or sense of community in my generation. now rent is too high for people who have finished their degrees and then some, let alone myself. meanwhile people out here are still being blamed for the effects of capitalism.... smh
Car dependency has a huge impact on this. If you’re not lucky enough to live in a walkable place or with transit, you’re effectively a prisoner in your own house if you don’t own a car. This means children and teenagers (prior to being old enough to drive) are fully dependent on their parents to facilitate social interactions
If you do have the car (or the driver's license), you can get caught in the catch 22 of needing to work to support the car/gas, which you need to be able to get to work.
While I was unemployed I learned how difficult it is to experience third places without money, especially with inflation. I'm employed now but I still want to strive to be the guy that has one drink at the bar and then switches to club soda without getting bored or tired. Socializing takes a lot of patience. It doesn't always happen the first minute or even hour that you walk in the door. But being comfortable in your own thoughts without feeling any peer pressure to do or be x, y or z is a good start. Eventually like meets like
In the US, I think one of the main reasons we monitor and overprotect our kids is the insane cost of emergency health care. Broken bones and stitches didn't bankrupt our parents and grandparents, but they sure could bankrupt parents now. Nobody's going to let their kids run off and climb trees and get into anything that isn't padded and probably liable if someone gets hurt. (And lets not even get into issues of liability and lawsuits when kids get hurt. I know a skatepark that got shut down because a kid hurt himself messing around on it.)
There's a factor I'd not thought about, even with growing up back when that lower cost was true.
I'm french. I grew up in the 2000s and 2010s in a small village that was far away from the town. As it's a small village filled with old people, everyone knew everyone and kids are welcome. I used to hang out in the countryside all the time, read a lot and be online a lot because there was not much else to do. My siblings and I were the only children there, we still hung out together a lot. I know that when missing something you could always go and ask neighbours, be it some flour or egg for a cake or toilet paper ; the mall was so far away (well, french countryside scale, you had to drive maybe half an hour to get there) that you needed to plan accordingly and if you were missing something there was no "trip to the grocery store real quick).
Nowadays I know this village is filled with kids and the community is stronger than ever. There is still a small private music festival there where all the villagers are invited by default, and also former villagers, and the people from the villages nearby. Everyone gathers and people who know how to play music prepare stuff to show to everyone else. Then people play together and improvise, and it's very cool. Everyone brings a little something to eat, some salad or cake, and there is a grill. I know that because I still talk to the elderly people I knew growing up there, and my parents too even though they moved a few years ago. They still go to that festival every year.
I now live in a big city, and in France many big cities have kept third places. There are parks to hang out, and even expensive big cities like bordeaux have small inexpensive bars and coffees where you can just drink a coffee and chat with the barman or read a book. Most towns get at least a bar, even the 500 inhabitants town my village depended on had a bar (though it closed several times during the time I was there, but then people just hung out in front of the church and played petanque or such). My friends and I have become regulars at one of these places. I know some towns have suburbs just like american ones and I always found it boring and limited when visiting friends there...
Since Covid started, I worked hard to create a "3rd place" for me and my friends. During the lockdowns we started a D&D campaign over video calls that we did every week, and after the lockdowns I tried to host a social event at my house once a month to keep us socialising to help combat the loneliness I know we're all dealing with. However, I don't live alone, I work full time, and I have a lot of other responsibilities outside of work. It's a lot of effort to keep providing space for people and I'm limited on how many people I can host in my small home so of course people end up getting left out and it causes arguments and I don't have the energy to keep doing it. Yet I'm terrified to stop because if I do then I'll just be constantly alone and if feels like I am constantly fighting to force a sense of community with people when communities should just be natural.
My pandemic dnd game is ending and I'm terrified of being alone too
@@madmagdelena I feel you. I hope you can keep doing things with the people in your DnD group even after the campaign ends.
I’m a black female teacher in a predominantly white rural and impoverished state in the USA. With that said, growing up here I used to long for the diversity, variety and excitement of a city. I then realized that I might be unwanted or out priced of the very places I admired.
I’ve come to love the sense of community my hometown has, but I’m increasingly disappointed by how easily people are shut out of that community without a certain amount of income.
As for the constant war against children and teenagers, I totally understand the desire to keep kids separate from us. As a middle school teacher I know that they can be exhausting, irritating and require patience that doesn’t always mesh with relaxation. However, the presence of kids and the responsibility of their supervision and socialization needs to be equalized. We definitely should be providing the community with 3rd spaces that are accessible to everyone, but parents must be willing to supervise kids in those areas instead of leaving bad behavior to be policed by others. Parents should be community minded and instill the same mindset in their kids. Perhaps that change would attract normal, decent people to public spaces where they can respectfully interact with young people. But as long as people selfishly disrespect every public place and situation, isolation will be an issue.
I grew up in Detroit and then taught in rural Tennessee- the way people worked together and took care of each other in rural Tennessee was something special for sure. I feel very lucky to have grown up in such a diverse place for sure, but you sure feel anonymous in a city vs a small town.
I understand this mentality, and wonder if the dynamics you're talking about are perpetuated by the loss of social spaces? It certainly seems like a loss of equity in social space would create a divide and support individuation and a view of "us vs them" in regard to class or social behavior out of fear for a loss of the space or of safety, when the very situation is what encourages that divide.
You might to reconsider that in most counties from across the United States lack access to publicly facilitated and monitored throughout in when it comes to better quality public funding. The actuality of this phenomenon of setting standards to make they can hire youth counselors, youth coaches, and youth inspectors to make the place is safe and accessible for young people.
I have to blame a lack of civility and civic duties in participating in their respective communities.
It is everyday, every region in the United States, unfortunately are becoming corporatized, minimized, and replaced with more investments in big brand corporations in order for profitability and GDP Growth for Per Capita.
It's weird because I feel like talking about third spaces - our urban, built environment - has been overlooked for a while in the leftist mainstream for a while until quite recently with the rise of interest in '15-minute cities' and understanding the impact of cars and concepts like zoning (such as in redlining in America) on our neighbourhoods. Climate change, economic and social inequality, ownership, the quality of living; these are all deeply intertwined with planning and architecture.
I actually think that this topic can used as a way to better bridge a lot of conservative-leaning people who can physically see a loss of local cultural identity in where they live - with the leftist understanding that due to globalised free market capitalism, the homogenisation and degredation of unique places is done so for profit and mass produce a product (in the case of the suburbs, a version of the car-lobby sponsored American Dream). Modernist architecture that really says nothing about where or when it exists and prioritises form over function, is another example of this. We should absolutely RETURN and revive classical forms of architecture and urban planning if it has been successful for thousands of years and better supports people over power structures.
Maybe non-American conservatives, but I truly think American conservatives are too far gone. Don't know if you've seen, but they have definitely noticed leftists talking about 15-minute cities. They believe it's a government conspiracy to contain people in tiny, socialist blocks. I'm not kidding. 15-minute cities is the new conservative conspiracy.
I shouldn't generalize every single one of them, but most I have seen think literally everything is a conspiracy these days. There is just no reaching them, human-to-human anymore, unless they take some initiative to do it themselves.
this video puts everything that frustrates me about socialization into words. its impossible to make plans with people cuz theres nowhere to go and nothing to do but spend money. before i could drive, it was even worse cuz everything was dependent on somebody's parent being able to take us. still, everything is so expensive that its hard to make socialization sustainable
This video just made me realise how important of a third space my church/congregation is. There are clubs and places for kids/teens to hang out for free, and always an adult there to help out and be a safe adult that the kids can trust. Other than that, church service every sunday, and for a lot of churches, services/meetings that are generally open for everyone regardless of age, on other days than sundays. coffee/food is generally served after every service to promote getting to know eachother rather than just participating in the service and going straight home. hell even at the weekly food bank thing, there is places for the poor people to sit, have a cup of coffee and just talk to eachother.
And I realise many people don't wanna go to a church, or any religious meeting in general. But personally, I feel like as a way to find community, friendship and to find a third place where you're welcome, no matter who you are and it's free? (we don't talk about some "churches" who make the "wrong" people feel unwelcome, that's not okay). In my experience the church has been priceless, and I'm grateful there has always been a church to be that third place for me in every city i've lived in, regardless of my age.
So, I was raised a Christian, but once I hit around 16-18 years old, I came to realize that Christianity wasn't *my* faith, but rather my dad's faith that he was encouraging me to follow. I wouldn't consider myself a Christian anymore, but I do know all about the faith and the bible
Due to a severe lack of 3rd spaces anywhere in the area I live in, I'm considering starting to go to a church again (not the bible studies or services, but other events the church runs), not for the faith I don't really believe in, but just as a 3rd space where I can actually socialize and meet new people
As a former Baptist, and tbh, not sure if I’m still even Christian, I always understood that the church “building” was not the church. And most interactions were free of charge. Youth group. Potlucks. Etc. This video really brings into sharp focus what I lost, what we’ve all lost. Case in point, Jesus didn’t have a cover charge to dine with him.
yeah i really miss the third space that was church. of course, i didn’t have any friends and felt disconnected from it because i’m queer, but i do miss it
I know a lot of nonreligious people, or people even from other religions, who join nondenominational churches just to get access to this sense of community and third spaces. It sucks that so much of American society only caters to Christians, but fwiw, they are made to feel welcome from what I hear.
OMG, thank you! I moved to a tiny non-rural town in Washington against my will almost 10 years ago, but I grew up in a city in California and spent a few years in Tokyo too. The whole time I've been here I've been complaining that this ain't my habitat, that I miss city life, but I've never been able to exactly explain why. I always knew I missed the crowds and the amount of people, even though I'm an introvert. But I never realized that what I really miss aren't the coffees or the food, but the places I used to hang out in cities. I could walk into any gaijin bar in Tokyo, spend like 500yen on one drink, and make new friends from all over the world. I could hang out at my Yoga studio between classes in Cali and chat with people about vegan cooking any day I wanted. It was all so easy! But here, there aren't even indoor cafes. They sell coffee out of drive through huts, and it's always cold and rainy so going outside seems insane. Even at the gym, no one makes eye contact. We're all just huddled in our boxes, pretending we're alone. Holy heck, thank you for naming my pain. Now that I know what it is, maybe I can do something about it.
I wish I was born in the city
Having recently visited Tokyo, I understand this!
This is a tough topic and I think you covered it VERY well, Elliot! I live in rural California and our third places are few and far inbetween. Smaller businesses are constantly going out of business and large chain corporations are constantly moving in for the sake of urban development and to get our city to "grow". It's true that there is nowhere to go for free anymore where you can connect with friends and the community. Other than going outside, I can't think of any in my area - also taking into consideration that it's over 110 degrees consistently for most of the year where I live so being outdoors is even a huge no-go most of the time. I have such a craving to collect, meet, organize, and connect with others (while not having to pay to be somewhere, that is), but I don't know if it will ever come to fruition here. Thank you so much for your insight on this topic, I so enjoyed this video!
sounds like redding but i'm sure a lot of rural CA is in the same boat too🙃