IMO, this is the best ending for the Honest Hearts DLC, at least for Joshua. By sparing Salt-Upon-Wounds, you are preventing Joshua from going back to his old ways. If you let Joshua kill him, the ending slides say that he "[tore] apart and [burned] the corpses of their enemies", "set about training his army in the Way of the Canaanite" and that the "legends of the Burned Man grew even more depraved, and terrifying". TL;DR if you allow Joshua to kill Salt-Upon-Wounds, Joshua basically becomes Malpais Legate 2.0 - which goes against the whole theme of redemption/forgiveness. Poor Daniel still gets fucked in all of the endings though, there's no happy ending for him.
Daniel is way too idealistic and isn't happy with anything. If you ask me, Daniel's ending where the tribes leave one of the only pristine pieces of land left in America in return for an uncertain future is the bad ending.
Furthermore, this ending also fulfills the wishes of the Survivalist, who started the creation of the Sorrows tribe. One of his wish was for the tribe to embrace love and peace, but don't be afraid to fight back in righteous anger when against a foe who won't back down.
Joshua becoming a warrior of God is the most righteous ending. His renewed faith has shown him the path, God needs soldiers to defeat the armies of evil.
You forgot medium step in which Salt-Upon-Wounds is killed in combat. As result for Joshua Graham "his personal demons, if not exorcised, were at least appeased". Basically it keeps his character still in crossroads between redemption and brutality. Something I feel his character really is about - about struggle to redeem, not achieving it.
No matter what happens he's always discontent with every outcome. Something about that puts a bad taste in my mouth. Joshua's belief in God gives him hope and drive to protect the good souls of Zion. Daniel being a pacifist is okay but in a post apocalyptic setting? Thats completely unrealistic and fucking asinine. It's not "pacifism" it's cowardice.
Prime Joshua was Caesar’s Legate before Lanius, he was not the same man he is here. Him being burned alive and dropped down a canyon changed him, both physically and spiritually.
@@littleaqua32 Prime Joshua is the version where he reconciles with his inner torment to the point where he is able to spare the life of the man who killed his family, for the sake of himself and the sorrows. He has not lost any bit of skill with his .45, but has learnt when to use it.
Me too. My last name is actually Graham as well, and my mom wanted to name me Josh. Quite a coincidence for a character I would have loved with any name.
I think people too often miss the point of Joshua Graham. They can only see the badass legend of "The Burned Man", and not the troubled soul and most importantly, the human being that he is. We focus on the cool quotes and speeches, not realizing that him citing Psalms is a moment of weakness, not strength. Is genocide/extermination cool? Is it what God would really want? The true way of the New Canaanite is not to destroy, but forgive, just as his people forgave him. For when he returned, he was a murderous monster of a Malpais Legate. They could have shunned him, and sent him away. But they didn't, because the right choice is sometimes the hardest choice, and hard choices require great strength, "the strongest wills". To hate an enemy is to be at war in your heart, to forgive them is to be at peace. Be good to each other.
Another thing too is with this ending his character arc comes full circle. He doesn't forgive Salt Upon Wounds but doesn't brutalize him either. People have done that with him and now he acts the same way towards his enemies
This is the only game and dlc that made feel slightly uneasy and felt dark just how well it was voiced and acted. it's like you can feel a real actual anger and hatred from Joshua as if it was played out in person when i first got to this scene.
@@hidan407 just typed up "fnv lessons of each dlc" and found this quote in the first link. "Whatever power you are given, whether it be intellect, political power or any other form, you must put it to good. When you lose sight of the greater good this power can go very bad, and you may not live up to your full potential."
@@hidan407I’m never a big fan of the “science gone too far!” trope since I find it pretty uninteresting (see the Institute), but I feel like part of it is that the brains in the Think Tank have lost sight of any purpose to their tests. They just want to fuck around with things like a playground, completely losing the plot of why they might execute an experiment
Honest Hearts has, in my opinion, two of the best items in game, for long time use. Joshua's Clothes (+3 critical hit chance) and A Light Shining In Darkness, which has insane DPS for a handgun. If you add Boones Beret (+5 Critical Hit Chance), high Luck (I have 10) and Finesse, playing though Lonesome Road, you can 1 hit the Marked Men in the face, with a critical hit, which happens quite often.
The rage, the hatred in his voice... The Malpais Legate must have been goddamn terrifying. Makes me wish for a Fallout comic based on the early conquests of the Legion, if only to see the true menace that once was Joshua Graham.
Personally I'm all for revenge, as I traveled half the Mojave looking for Benny. I got the Sneering Imperialist perk and told Joshua to execute him right then and there
@@crapposter8201 but for good reason. They need to realize that while yes, They're living in basically paradise compared to the rest of the world, They're gonna have to fiercely defend their families and land next time someone else tries to come and take it. Daniel's idea was to literally pussy out and just leave Zion. Which is pretty much heaven in the Wasteland and their home. Like fuck that. There's a REASON Joshua Graham was the most intimidating, strict, indestructible, unkillable, and wisest man to lead the Legion. And now the sorrows can follow in his guidance.
@ShadowOfDeath🥀 Neither Joshua or Daniel are completely right. The White Legs need to be stopped, however dragging the Sorrows into the fight and slaughtering the enemy is wrong. The Bible does not oppose warfare or killing if you're the defender. Murder and waging offensive war is a sin, but that's not what Joshua does to stop the White Legs although he goes too far if you don't stop him. Although being peaceful is the best course of action, sometimes that isn't possible if the enemy gives you no choice. Even Daniel isn't a pacifist, he just doesn't want the Sorrows dragged into the fighting. Also, I doubt Joshua nor anyone else lives in "paradise" whether in Zion or elsewhere. Joshua suffers on a daily basis with this injuries and the world around him is still hostile, that's not paradise. Although he believes Zion to be holy and important, it's not because it's God's paradise but rather a monument to God's will and beauty. He views retreat from Zion as the same as letting beasts pollute holy ground, not that it destroys his "paradise" as he even admits that your home isn't a physical place but rather a place where you are welcome and belong.
As someone who was traumatized as a child, I am so obsessed with getting revenge against the people who hurt me even though they are long gone from my life and I try to forget about them. I now have full blown psychotic mental illness because the wildfires burn even with no one to direct my anger towards. I hallucinate too, so the warmth and the heat are always inside me. I'm always so angry at the world that hurts children, and if the anger gets too bad then sometimes I just want to burn myself away. I hate this place...
I know you wrote this a while ago, but I'm going through the exact same thing. I'm on the spectrum, so I was always victimized for being different, which made me extremely vengeful towards any form of oppression. After what I went through during Covid it got so bad that it started pushing my closest friends and family away, and generally causing problems that could have been avoided completely if I had just stayed calm. People usually tell me that they don't like getting angry, but the problem is that I sometimes actually like the feeling of going into a state of blind rage. It isn't going to be easy, but one thing that people keep telling me is to 'let it blow quietly away'. Once you manage to do this, life will be much easier.
I don’t think the fire will never stop or ever end. It’s righteous anger and fury at being betrayed and for being burned alive. Yet, at some point the fire needs to die down and for the thunderstorms to heal. For allowing yourself to forgive yourself for being venerable and, maybe in your mind, naive and foolish for daring to love someone that hurt you. And let that forest rebuild after the wildfire, to love yourself again and to, cautiously and wisely, love others again. Joshua talks about God’s love rejuvenating him. It isn’t and was never wrong for you to love others and its true people are terrible. Yet, there are others that will love you unconditionally and lovingly care for you. That fire will keep burning but that doesn’t mean it can’t be a warmth and heat for others to enjoy. Doesn’t mean you can’t use it productively to help others. I hope you are okay, alright, and healing ❤️🩹
If I had to make a wild guess, it’s probably something along the lines of ‘the unchanging pay the price’, which would fit with Joshua’s story of learning to move on.
I wanted this ending so bad but the game would crash every couple of seconds anywhere near the white-legs encampment so I had to do the dumb escape mission just to get out of the dlc
My friend had a bug that kept showing the notification for a part of Zion not being able to be accessed unless if you traveled with the Happy Trails Caravan. This kept happening even in the ending and in the best place: "The Happy Trails Caravan didn't get far in their journey"- [You cannot access this part of Zion Canyon until you travel with The Happy Trails Caravan]
Personally, while sparing Salt-Upon-Wounds is probably the best ending, I choose to allow the chief to stand and fight and die honorable instead of being executed on his knees. To me it's the most "realistic" ending between sneering imperialist and absolute forgiveness. The White Legs invaded the Sorrows' home and justice must be carried out, but we'll fight them honorably and while Graham is not fully cleansed, his anger is appeased.
I think that this is one of the main dilemmas of Honest Hearts. In order to help Joshua's tribe understand that violence is not the best way to achieve your goals, you have to sacrifice a part of yourself and supress your urges to stop the vindictive circle. On the other hand, you can help Joshua to fulfill the righteous revenge and execute Salt-Upon-Wounds for all his atrocities. Writing and delivery, paired with outstanding voice acting, make this choice feel real and impactful (just like in real life society there is no such option to make everyone happy simultaneously), and that's what make this game beautiful.
disagree, one could only think this way if they have a cavalier attitude towards war and violence. the story makes its point simply; you can't introduce murder and conflict to people and expect it to fade away, the things we do on an individual and communal level define us & the paths of our lives, there is such a thing as going too far.
@Alpha Dog Well not literally just like, I believe they took an inspiration from the book Joshua to make the character Joshua Graham as he is willing to annihilate the White Legs due to their cruelty, so the Canaanites were quite savage even they sacrificed their own sons burning them and other mad stuff.
I love this speech check. It's not like "o0o0oh look at me I'm so charismatic I can bullshit my way through turning a man on a rampage into a pacifist. No, it's not just speech skill, it shows that you also listened to Joshua this entire time, you use his own beliefs, that he shared with you throughout the DLC, to make him change his mind. This is top tier writing that Bethesda never reaches.
The fact that Salt Upon Wounds calls the Couriour a "devil" is genuinely fucking disgusting. He has no goddamn right when he slaughtered countless innocents. His audacity for mercy never ceases to piss me off.
@@WAcrobat19The ones who attain undeserved power, who dole out merciless atrocities against innocents, who brag and boast on their high towers of themselves and nothing else, shall beg for mercy the loudest when it is their turn.
I regret not telling Waking Cloud about her husband's death and while I took a bit of comfort in telling Follow-Chalks that the Mojave isn't perfect but neither is the life he has now and to follow whatever his heart desires. I worry that he may have been hurt during his journey and that he left without a trace. Yet one thing I am glad about is that I PUT ALL OF MY POINTS INTO SPEECH!! I managed to convince Joshua to spare Salt Upon Wounds which made me sleep at night when I saw the ending of my Courier's trip to Zion. What a journey!
>"thank you for....staying with me, I couldn't have done this on my own" >Can single handedly slaughter all the white legs with his pistol without needing courier's help Sure joshua, my "help"
When he's thanking the courier, he's not doing it because you helped him murder a bunch of goobledidooks, but because you talked him down from killing in the name of vengence and stayed his hand, therefore saving his soul in a way
Joshua is referring to staying his vengeance at his lowest point in the story, thereby creating in him a new spirit and finally giving him peace. Joshua knows that he would have never been able to spare Salt Upon Wounds without the couriers intervention.
Here is a man capable and willing to exterminate the whitelegs allowing himself to listen to reason for the sake of his principles. It takes something special to write a character like that.
@@doublem1975x And Salt ceased to be a threat when his fighting force got crushed. Randall straight up would not have killed Salt (At least, in that way). Literally the whole point of convincing Joshua to spare him is to serve as a narrative parallel to Randall's story and beliefs about making peace with his past.
@@Hifuutorian Maybe you didn’t read all of his terminal entries. Randall was extremely ruthless in dispatching his enemies. He killed over 80 vault 22 refugees even after they were sick and ceased becoming a threat to him. He absolutely would’ve killed SUW and as many white legs as possible. The issue with the sorrows is they embraced a portion of Randall’s manifesto that embraces peace but forgot or disregarded the other part about eliminating threats. This made them vulnerable to external threats (I.e White legs). Yes there is a strong parallel between Joshua and Randall which makes siding with Joshua over Daniel much easier, besides that Daniel is an awful person.
I really wish you were able to point out that he’s still acting like the legate even though he’s working against the legion now. He should know better, and know that killing this pawn tribe isn’t a meaningful way to get back at the legion
I think that was the intentional flaw with his character. Joshua was a man turned humble yes, but he still contained this deep seeded merciless bloodlust that never left him even after getting burned. Although his tribe's love saved him, they weren't able to quell that rage within him. You are able to up call him out on his redirected rage even if they don't let you compare him to his previous self. In the end It's up to us to finally teach him when to show mercy, in which he's finally able to experience peace.
I just killed salt upon wounds cus I just blew off ceasars head before this and I’m like what’s one more body. But then the ending happens and it basically said I fucked up 😭
When I played Honest Hearts, the ending I got really made me feel like I made all of the wrong choices despite my attempts to do what I felt what was best for as many people as possible; I let Salt-Upon-Wounds have a fighting chance so he could've at least enjoyed a warrior's death, only for the White Legs to persist in their hunt and the Sorrows turn war-like regardless, while Joshua remains an unforgiving killer. I tell Follows-Chalk that civilization's worth seeing at least once (because it is), only for him to quarrel with his tribe and abruptly disappear one day, never to be seen or heard from again. I decide to keep the death of Waking Cloud's husband a secret, since telling her now could harm the tribe's morale when it's needed most, only for her to turn bitter and regularly preach against the New Canaanites, making tribal relations with them more difficult than they should be. Enjoyable as Honest Hearts was, I walked away from the whole experience feeling like a fuck-up who may helped these people pull themselves out of one hole, only to then dig another for them all to fall into. At least I can tell myself it could've gone worse had I decided to execute Salt-Upon-Wounds; Joshua may still be cold, but him no longer reveling in the brutality at least shows signs of self-improvement. And the Sorrows may become proud and war-like, but at least they didn't turn into bloodthirsty savages like they could've. Oh, and the White Legs fail and eventually disband regardless... that's important, too.
I would say new vegas has a theme of their is never a truly good ending nor a bad one as we all are fighting for the same coin in the name of another. Here the spare route is good for the Zion community (like Dead Horses and Sorrows) as it makes them the most merciful and it makes Joshua merciful and healed inside, he still is the militarist warrior at heart. So he has realized that the revenge path is what he desires and that it isn't the correct way and gives up on it. The route where you let Salt-Upon-Wounds die by your hand in battle implies that Joshua still heals as he no longer enjoys the brutality and he is no longer is cruel, but he has still got a drive for revenge but he has it under control. The only one where it is a negative impact is if you pop a cap in General Gobbledigook and result in Joshua lusting for revenge, genocide, and destruction. You decide essentially in these endings does Joshua: repent and forgive (peaceful Joshua), become a soldier doing his duty and accepting he must stay calm (close to what he was during honest hearts so I guess Warrior Joshua), or become the Legate of his past life again (Legate/Revenant Joshua). This impacts the world in several ways. In the case of peaceful Joshua Zion doesn't suffer more loses anymore but the White Legs get defeated by the 80s who take Salt Lake and the survivors escape. This potentially means they (White Legs) can reform in other tribes, be causing trouble by raiding in small bands, and the 80s now have more land which is bad. Warrior Joshua results in New Canaanites and Zion needing to fight of the remanent forces of the White Legs, but this time it is a offensive war and ambushes destroy what is left of the white legs and those that survive are killed off by the 80s. This means 80s might not have control of salt lake, white legs are gone and won't harm anyone anymore and won't reform, at the cost of maybe some Zion tribals and Canaanites. Legate Joshua results in the White legs slowly dying off in their retreat, and breaking up into more smaller bands. This means 80s might not have control of salt lake and now you got roving bands of tribals to deal with. So in summary the only path that reduces potential crime in the local regions is by killing off the White Legs resulting in the 80s having the least territory gain. Legate Joshua causes more potential crime, 80s still have less territory gain but at the cost of Joshua, and Joshua maybe leading a hyper militaristic force that can conquer the local region and terrify the local populations. Genocide and brutality will ensue. Peaceful Joshua destroys his symbol, but helps Joshua see the peace inside him and give up presumably on revenge, but he still performs it in the end but under the notion of defending his people. Now with the Burned Man symbol, if Joshua become the Legate Joshua, it means people will fear him and it will protect Zion and the Canaanites from potential threats while providing hope for Caesar's enemies and Terrify the living crap out of tribals and even Caesar based on the fact he is wasting men and resources on chasing Joshua, though he may send more due to the Symbol growing in strength, but it will spread further. The Legion may even become threatened as a whole by Joshua. Now Warrior Joshua still retains the symbol but it doesn't change so the enemies of Caesar may still have hope in a force that opposes Caesar, Tribals will avoid Zion and Canaan due to fear, and Caesar will waste resources chasing Joshua, but probably won't was he anymore as he is/was doing currently same with Legion. Peaceful Joshua essentially loses the power of the Burning Man Symbol meaning Zion may soon (aka years later) be attacked by tribals seeking the land and tribals may forget the Burned Man symbol and may rise in power. Caesar may even lessen his searching for Joshua if the symbol is forgotten so more of his resources and men can be sent into the Mojave. This means it be worse for the NCR, and New Vegas, and anyone who is an enemy of Caesar as it may make them lose hope. Overall all the points are still not concrete points so it may still have some interpretation to them, but I hope this analysis may help you see why the endings aren't exactly cookie cutter good and bad. Also Follows Chalk following his dreams may be good in the end for him as he may find enjoyment in life and purpose, and considering he is never seen again like the Vault Dweller in 1 he may start a new family or residence somewhere where he'd be happy. So who knows he might actually be happier. This whole dilemma parallels people in real life having to decide do they pursue their dreams or comfort, with some failing and some succeeding. Is it inherently wrong for one to chase their dreams, and risk all comfort and certainty? Is it truly bad for one to stay at home and live a peaceful, boring, life that is comfortable with a family who loves you? In the base game there is a quest with Alice Hostetler where you can tell her something similar with Speech checks so in the end she doesn't murder her mom and run, but can find happiness in life. Regarding Waking Cloud I think the whole coming to terms with her Husbands death is probably the best option, as I don't see much of a benefit for Waking Cloud, but the Sorrows may accept Joshua more and his militarism allowing them to be more skeptical, though it is a bit of a long shot.
Honestly the best ending just depends on how you see things. Consider the wasteland itself. It's nothing like the modern world we live in. Would fleeing benefit the tribes in the long run? Sure they wont be as aggressive which is morally good, but they can't keep running forever. Letting Joshua kill Salt and having the tribes be super militarized and aggressive is the morally wrong thing but consider that they're able to not only stay in Zion but they'll be much better prepared for future invaders or fights with raiders or other powers like the Legion. All of NV's endings are only good or bad depending on how you see things. Is letting a morally "good" yet corrupt NCR stay in power good despite nothing changing for the better? Is it best for a brutal and morally reprehensible Legion stay in power since they can bring civilization to the wasteland for however long they last? Is it best for an autocrat with no real territory gain independence and power because he's the only one with a plan for humanity's future? Or do you trust yourself and an unquestioning robot to gain power and help the small town that helped you flourish despite the chaos that's caused in the streets on Vegas because you systematically destroyed every position of power to stand at the top.
What the shit is this about nothing getting better under the NCR? If you do the side quests, the ending describes almost everything getting better except for the taxes. Even Freeside starts getting better.
Damn..... I need to reload a save. It was very sad what happened to Daniel, how much pain I caused him by telling Joshua to kill salt upon..... I thought I was doing the right thing
If you care about ideals of redemption and the soul of only one man, then this is the best ending. But if your goal is to strike fear and terror in the hearts of the legion and the other raiding tribes, then your best option is to intensify the myth of a ruthless Joshua Graham. I want them to be afraid on every step, to know somewhere out there, there is a genocidal demigod who laughed at the face of death and completely erased an entire tribe from existence, executing their most powerful warrior like a little bitch. Remember: this is apocalypse, not civilization. The ever growing rage of the Sorrows and the Burning Man is a small price to pay for all the peace that is purchased with blood and guts of our enemies.
Okay so no lie as a kid playing this with the first time. I did do the holes each month like you did and was fully expecting Joshua to come fight and was worried I was going to get curb stomped
I honestly hated how it ended I wish you could have told the sorrows to fall back and just tend to the wounded keep their innocence while it might make them seem weak they didn’t deserve to become the way they did more so when the survivor in Zion tried so hard to teach and protect them from the horrors of the world taking it as his own atonement for what happened. The survivor was a good man and a fighter like Joshua and Daniel
They were too sheltered from reality, and besides, what fun is that? Adding drama and weight to your choices makes you feel the consequences. Like real life, things aren’t always clear cut and dry. There are winners, losers, and people just caught in the middle trying to make sense of it all
Actually,if you read the survivors journals, you find out that he WANTED them to fight and defend themselves, he also wanted them to enter his caves and get to his loot, but i guess he forgot to disarm the traps
I’m a Baptist, I greatly honor J Sawer for treating Christianity with respect. It feels like the teachings of Christ are lost on folks just because of the failures of our forefathers.
I agree, it's also one of those things where people forget christianity isn't easy. This DLC, the thing I like about it and it helped me with my faith a lot, I'm an SDA. But what helped me with my faith was knowing everyone struggles spiritually and we all fall but we just keep getting up and forgiven by the Lord. Its sad our forefathers have failed us, christianity gets a bad rep.
@@rustyshackleford1508 yeah I kinda like that with New Vegas in general because of how raw it is on certain subjects. Chatacters like Daniel and Veronica dont get good endings but rather are bitter sweet. Daniel in particular as you stated is not at peace because he is guilty over losing many tribes to the White Legs and blames himself for not saving them. He wants a perfect world where there is no violence and the Sorrows forever remain innocent but in Fallout the world is brutal and despite this ending where the Sorrows learn to defend themselves but still are not a violent tribe, it still bothers Daniel because no matter what it was never going to have his perfect outcome
Why would I make Joshua spare him if we have killed a decent amount of White Legs already, who were under the command of THIS guy. It makes no sense. Also, making him fight just seems out of place, like making his death longer for the sake of it, so I just answered "no objections" to Joshua
Brothers and Sisters, as it is written in the Book of Psalms: "But as for me, in Thy mercy do I trust; My heart shall rejoice in Thy salvation. I will sing unto The LORD, because He hath dealt bountifully with me." (Psalm 13:5-6 - How long, O LORD?) Brothers, do you understand what this means? This is without a doubt the steadfast love of God, the love which we must share. We are man. Not tools, not characters in a bygone story or myth, we are not tomorrows idols but man, alive and redeemed, ready for the life of the world to come. In this fleeting world there is all the more those who are dead and their works which are dead because they have yet to be alive, to reject the world and rejoice in God Almighty. Beloved, you and I, we pray the prayer of thanksgiving indeed, not for what we have but for Him who has given us what we have. We pray for our daily bread, we pray that we may see our Brothers, both those near and far off because we love them as He loves them. Above all these earthly things is the most of all spiritual gifts, the salvation that only comes from God. He delivered it by Our LORD and Savior, Jesus Christ whose life was for us and our life for Him who saved us from Gehenna. This is the steadfast love of God, that even when we are at our worst there is only better to come, and we know just who gives us that which is better for us. Brother, be baptized and repent of sinfulness and have steadfast faith in Our LORD and Savior, Jesus Christ, who is the same yesterday and today and tomorrow. Amen and Amen. -Ezekiel
In truth I agree with Joshuah Grahams actions by putting Salt Upon Wounds to death, and I'm sure he has strong reasons based on scripture. In genesis 9 it says 6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. And in numbers 35 it says 15These six cities shall be a refuge, both for the children of Israel, and for the stranger, and for the sojourner among them: that every one that killeth any person unawares may flee thither. 16And if he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death. 17And if he smite him with throwing a stone, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death. 18Or if he smite him with an hand weapon of wood, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death. 19The revenger of blood himself shall slay the murderer: when he meeteth him, he shall slay him. 20But if he thrust him of hatred, or hurl at him by laying of wait, that he die; 21Or in enmity smite him with his hand, that he die: he that smote him shall surely be put to death; for he is a murderer: the revenger of blood shall slay the murderer, when he meeteth him. 22But if he thrust him suddenly without enmity, or have cast upon him any thing without laying of wait, 23Or with any stone, wherewith a man may die, seeing him not, and cast it upon him, that he die, and was not his enemy, neither sought his harm: 24Then the congregation shall judge between the slayer and the revenger of blood according to these judgments: 25And the congregation shall deliver the slayer out of the hand of the revenger of blood, and the congregation shall restore him to the city of his refuge, whither he was fled: and he shall abide in it unto the death of the high priest, which was anointed with the holy oil.
Something that isn't ever explained is why Joshua joined Ceasar anyways. Like how did he go from being a missionary to commit atrocities for Ceasar before being burned alive?
I forget if Joshua or Caesar tells you, but he started as an interpreter. They say something like "interpreting led to giving orders. Giving orders led to leading in battle." So basically the analogy of the frog in boiling water: you don't realize how far gone you are until it's too late.
Yes? All other endings are objectively bad for Joshua Graham’s character. This ending literally shows us that it was selfish want for revenge and anger that drove Joshua to be “The Burned Man” in his fight against Salt-Upon-Wounds. He was still just the shadow of the fascist warlord known as Malpais Legate. But when he put down the gun, he had already defeated his foes. He wouldn’t ever go to that place again. He had to come to terms with the fact him wanting his anger to be God’a anger was selfishness, not righteousness. He had to set aside the flames that burned him, anger, and embrace the flames that saved him, love. In one ending, the legend of the burned man increases and he becomes another Caesar. In another ending, at best he “appeases his demons”, but he cannot ever truly call himself redeemed. There is no point in looking up to Joshua Graham as a character if you do not believe this to be the best ending.
The dlc is super boring. Sneaking doesnt work well in Fallout NV so fighting enemies in a tribe like fashion really sucks. The weapons there are all boring, nothing cool to loot The tribes are all primitives and had some outsiders told how to behave and what to think... You cant return which sucks too. You just wonder through some boring wasteland killing sone Indianer with Axes
![Fallout New Vegas sneak build [Start to finish, Very hard, No exploits, Companions or chems]](/img/1.gif)
IMO, this is the best ending for the Honest Hearts DLC, at least for Joshua. By sparing Salt-Upon-Wounds, you are preventing Joshua from going back to his old ways. If you let Joshua kill him, the ending slides say that he "[tore] apart and [burned] the corpses of their enemies", "set about training his army in the Way of the Canaanite" and that the "legends of the Burned Man grew even more depraved, and terrifying".
TL;DR if you allow Joshua to kill Salt-Upon-Wounds, Joshua basically becomes Malpais Legate 2.0 - which goes against the whole theme of redemption/forgiveness.
Poor Daniel still gets fucked in all of the endings though, there's no happy ending for him.
Daniel is way too idealistic and isn't happy with anything. If you ask me, Daniel's ending where the tribes leave one of the only pristine pieces of land left in America in return for an uncertain future is the bad ending.
Furthermore, this ending also fulfills the wishes of the Survivalist, who started the creation of the Sorrows tribe. One of his wish was for the tribe to embrace love and peace, but don't be afraid to fight back in righteous anger when against a foe who won't back down.
Joshua becoming a warrior of God is the most righteous ending. His renewed faith has shown him the path, God needs soldiers to defeat the armies of evil.
You forgot medium step in which Salt-Upon-Wounds is killed in combat. As result for Joshua Graham "his personal demons, if not exorcised, were at least appeased". Basically it keeps his character still in crossroads between redemption and brutality. Something I feel his character really is about - about struggle to redeem, not achieving it.
No matter what happens he's always discontent with every outcome. Something about that puts a bad taste in my mouth. Joshua's belief in God gives him hope and drive to protect the good souls of Zion. Daniel being a pacifist is okay but in a post apocalyptic setting? Thats completely unrealistic and fucking asinine. It's not "pacifism" it's cowardice.
"I want all of them to die in fear and in pain." God you can just feel his utter hatred. Prime Joshua must have been terrifying.
Prime Joshua was Caesar’s Legate before Lanius, he was not the same man he is here. Him being burned alive and dropped down a canyon changed him, both physically and spiritually.
@@littleaqua32 Prime Joshua is the version where he reconciles with his inner torment to the point where he is able to spare the life of the man who killed his family, for the sake of himself and the sorrows. He has not lost any bit of skill with his .45, but has learnt when to use it.
Joshua actually was stronger after Caesar's burned him.
In this scene i was more terrified of Joshua than Lanius in the whole game.
I made lanius my little bitch. For Joshua, for God, for us all. His soul and body vaporized by my humble 12 gauge, the dinner bell
Nah cuz fr
@@uknwn.5o3k You basically just said "no, because yes."
Facts. Such amazing writing and voice acting. The little “don’t you?” At the end of his speech is bone chilling bruh
Joshua Graham is literally my favorite character in anything ever.
Me too. My last name is actually Graham as well, and my mom wanted to name me Josh. Quite a coincidence for a character I would have loved with any name.
Hello There.
@@joshuagraham8782 OMG , come on, say it
@@joshuagraham8782 dude is a legend
@@joshuagraham8782 Evening.
"As god is my witness" (Kale watcha) "none of you will be spared." (nei conserva oh.)
Holy shit, that’s chilling
What language is this?
@@Whoyouwishyouwere White leg
Always wondered what he said in this scene. Thank you
@@deptusmechanikus7362 nobody knows what this means. It's a mix of Shoshone, Spanish, and English. And no one here speaks Shoshone.
I think people too often miss the point of Joshua Graham. They can only see the badass legend of "The Burned Man", and not the troubled soul and most importantly, the human being that he is.
We focus on the cool quotes and speeches, not realizing that him citing Psalms is a moment of weakness, not strength. Is genocide/extermination cool? Is it what God would really want?
The true way of the New Canaanite is not to destroy, but forgive, just as his people forgave him. For when he returned, he was a murderous monster of a Malpais Legate. They could have shunned him, and sent him away. But they didn't, because the right choice is sometimes the hardest choice, and hard choices require great strength, "the strongest wills".
To hate an enemy is to be at war in your heart, to forgive them is to be at peace.
Be good to each other.
"...this spirit would diminish the myth of the Burned Man in distant lands... a small price for the piece it brought to Joshua Graham"
Another thing too is with this ending his character arc comes full circle. He doesn't forgive Salt Upon Wounds but doesn't brutalize him either. People have done that with him and now he acts the same way towards his enemies
He is a strong good person. He is way better than what we currently hold as values
"To hate an enemy is to be at war in your heart, to forgive them is to be at peace" thanks dude, where did you get that ?
There is no genocide. The other White Legs who surrendered are spared and are kicked out of Zion.
This is the only game and dlc that made feel slightly uneasy and felt dark just how well it was voiced and acted. it's like you can feel a real actual anger and hatred from Joshua as if it was played out in person when i first got to this scene.
All the DLCs of FNV are actually pretty dark and depressing, even Old World Blues - which I personally the most fun to play. They all tell the lesson
@@Bergen98 whats the lesson for Old world blues in your opinion?
For me I feel like the lesson is: Dont play god
@@hidan407 just typed up "fnv lessons of each dlc" and found this quote in the first link.
"Whatever power you are given, whether it be intellect, political power or any other form, you must put it to good. When you lose sight of the greater good this power can go very bad, and you may not live up to your full potential."
@@hidan407I’m never a big fan of the “science gone too far!” trope since I find it pretty uninteresting (see the Institute), but I feel like part of it is that the brains in the Think Tank have lost sight of any purpose to their tests. They just want to fuck around with things like a playground, completely losing the plot of why they might execute an experiment
"But the only use for an animal in our temple is sacrifice."🗣🗣🗣🔊🔊🔊
None of my nightmares could hold a candle to the fear Joshua graham would instill in my heart if he was real.
Honest Hearts has, in my opinion, two of the best items in game, for long time use.
Joshua's Clothes (+3 critical hit chance) and A Light Shining In Darkness, which has insane DPS for a handgun.
If you add Boones Beret (+5 Critical Hit Chance), high Luck (I have 10) and Finesse, playing though Lonesome Road, you can 1 hit the Marked Men in the face, with a critical hit, which happens quite often.
You're a genius
Add true police stores with the perk that expands effects of magazines and 10 luck
Yeah but they look bad
there's a mod for a canon couriers duster on nexus. It combines the courier duster and JG outfits into one. It looks very decent imo.
@@gpheonix1 link?
The rage, the hatred in his voice... The Malpais Legate must have been goddamn terrifying. Makes me wish for a Fallout comic based on the early conquests of the Legion, if only to see the true menace that once was Joshua Graham.
when you can't expect god to do all the work, send in a courier
Personally I'm all for revenge, as I traveled half the Mojave looking for Benny. I got the Sneering Imperialist perk and told Joshua to execute him right then and there
That does mentally fuck Joshua and Sorrows up, though.
@@crapposter8201 but for good reason.
They need to realize that while yes,
They're living in basically paradise compared to the rest of the world,
They're gonna have to fiercely defend their families and land next time someone else tries to come and take it.
Daniel's idea was to literally pussy out and just leave Zion.
Which is pretty much heaven in the Wasteland and their home. Like fuck that.
There's a REASON Joshua Graham was the most intimidating, strict, indestructible, unkillable, and wisest man to lead the Legion.
And now the sorrows can follow in his guidance.
@ShadowOfDeath🥀 Neither Joshua or Daniel are completely right. The White Legs need to be stopped, however dragging the Sorrows into the fight and slaughtering the enemy is wrong.
The Bible does not oppose warfare or killing if you're the defender. Murder and waging offensive war is a sin, but that's not what Joshua does to stop the White Legs although he goes too far if you don't stop him. Although being peaceful is the best course of action, sometimes that isn't possible if the enemy gives you no choice. Even Daniel isn't a pacifist, he just doesn't want the Sorrows dragged into the fighting.
Also, I doubt Joshua nor anyone else lives in "paradise" whether in Zion or elsewhere. Joshua suffers on a daily basis with this injuries and the world around him is still hostile, that's not paradise. Although he believes Zion to be holy and important, it's not because it's God's paradise but rather a monument to God's will and beauty. He views retreat from Zion as the same as letting beasts pollute holy ground, not that it destroys his "paradise" as he even admits that your home isn't a physical place but rather a place where you are welcome and belong.
for me this ending is the reason why i always chose to spare benny.
Mf really missed the whole point of the ending.
Holy shit he ran fast.
thats what you do when Joshua tells you to scram you best fucking scram
@@TheHarrisontemple Greeting, Dulgrim. Excellent profile pic selection!
Fast af boi
As someone who was traumatized as a child, I am so obsessed with getting revenge against the people who hurt me even though they are long gone from my life and I try to forget about them. I now have full blown psychotic mental illness because the wildfires burn even with no one to direct my anger towards. I hallucinate too, so the warmth and the heat are always inside me. I'm always so angry at the world that hurts children, and if the anger gets too bad then sometimes I just want to burn myself away. I hate this place...
Are you ok
based
ruclips.net/video/uZwzbA91Yno/видео.html
I know you wrote this a while ago, but I'm going through the exact same thing. I'm on the spectrum, so I was always victimized for being different, which made me extremely vengeful towards any form of oppression. After what I went through during Covid it got so bad that it started pushing my closest friends and family away, and generally causing problems that could have been avoided completely if I had just stayed calm. People usually tell me that they don't like getting angry, but the problem is that I sometimes actually like the feeling of going into a state of blind rage. It isn't going to be easy, but one thing that people keep telling me is to 'let it blow quietly away'. Once you manage to do this, life will be much easier.
I don’t think the fire will never stop or ever end. It’s righteous anger and fury at being betrayed and for being burned alive. Yet, at some point the fire needs to die down and for the thunderstorms to heal. For allowing yourself to forgive yourself for being venerable and, maybe in your mind, naive and foolish for daring to love someone that hurt you. And let that forest rebuild after the wildfire, to love yourself again and to, cautiously and wisely, love others again. Joshua talks about God’s love rejuvenating him. It isn’t and was never wrong for you to love others and its true people are terrible. Yet, there are others that will love you unconditionally and lovingly care for you. That fire will keep burning but that doesn’t mean it can’t be a warmth and heat for others to enjoy. Doesn’t mean you can’t use it productively to help others.
I hope you are okay, alright, and healing ❤️🩹
It’s such a powerful moment when he begins openly saying what he’s known to be true, deep down
*Joshua? Pop a cap in captain gobbledygook here.*
I still remember the first time I played this game and I read that And my best friend and I laughed harder than we ever have at a game. S tier writing
"kale watcha nei conserva oh"
God as my witness, none of you will be spared?
If I had to make a wild guess, it’s probably something along the lines of ‘the unchanging pay the price’, which would fit with Joshua’s story of learning to move on.
I always thought it was 'kill what you can't keep'
How is Jed Masterson narrating the end when he died entering Zion?😂😂
After he died he became omniscient
@WungusBill didnt his head blow up
@@Mannnnnnnn I mean Jeannie May’s head got exploded by Boone and she still narrated novac’s ending
perhaps it's his lost brother
I never took the option to leave Zion. I always spilt this beasts blood.
You take a sip from your trusty Vault 13 Canteen
I wanted this ending so bad but the game would crash every couple of seconds anywhere near the white-legs encampment so I had to do the dumb escape mission just to get out of the dlc
Too much mods because vanilla version doesnt do that atleast not in Xbox
That's a shame. This is my favorite mission in the whole game. This ending is just beautiful.
My friend had a bug that kept showing the notification for a part of Zion not being able to be accessed unless if you traveled with the Happy Trails Caravan.
This kept happening even in the ending and in the best place:
"The Happy Trails Caravan didn't get far in their journey"-
[You cannot access this part of Zion Canyon until you travel with The Happy Trails Caravan]
If you're on PC use the Viva New Vegas mod guide. Shit works wonders.
0:15 I get chills every time
Personally, while sparing Salt-Upon-Wounds is probably the best ending, I choose to allow the chief to stand and fight and die honorable instead of being executed on his knees. To me it's the most "realistic" ending between sneering imperialist and absolute forgiveness. The White Legs invaded the Sorrows' home and justice must be carried out, but we'll fight them honorably and while Graham is not fully cleansed, his anger is appeased.
1:15 No objections.
I choose that since totally agree with joshua, although it leads a "bad" ending.
I think that this is one of the main dilemmas of Honest Hearts. In order to help Joshua's tribe understand that violence is not the best way to achieve your goals, you have to sacrifice a part of yourself and supress your urges to stop the vindictive circle. On the other hand, you can help Joshua to fulfill the righteous revenge and execute Salt-Upon-Wounds for all his atrocities. Writing and delivery, paired with outstanding voice acting, make this choice feel real and impactful (just like in real life society there is no such option to make everyone happy simultaneously), and that's what make this game beautiful.
disagree, one could only think this way if they have a cavalier attitude towards war and violence. the story makes its point simply; you can't introduce murder and conflict to people and expect it to fade away, the things we do on an individual and communal level define us & the paths of our lives, there is such a thing as going too far.
Just like the Canaanites and Joshua in the Bible, what a great game, shame that Fallout 4 doesn’t get this close to this writing
@Alpha Dog Well not literally just like, I believe they took an inspiration from the book Joshua to make the character Joshua Graham as he is willing to annihilate the White Legs due to their cruelty, so the Canaanites were quite savage even they sacrificed their own sons burning them and other mad stuff.
@@danielaguilera9089
That’s a good name
I approve
Joshua graham the saint of the 45 caliber
John Moses Browning is with thee 😇
i wish you could quote scripture like joshua, this would’ve been a perfect time to use “vengeance is mine, thus sayeth the lord”
This is the noblest ending for Joshua Graham 🥺❤️👏🏼
I love this speech check. It's not like "o0o0oh look at me I'm so charismatic I can bullshit my way through turning a man on a rampage into a pacifist. No, it's not just speech skill, it shows that you also listened to Joshua this entire time, you use his own beliefs, that he shared with you throughout the DLC, to make him change his mind. This is top tier writing that Bethesda never reaches.
Bethesda bad >:(
I can never tell if Bethesda intentionally doesn't write like that, or if they don't know how.
@@gudboah4688 Well they do suck. Hard.
@@gudboah4688 Yes.
Perfect Ending:
[Sneering Imperialist] Whatever. Joshua, put a cap in General Gobbledygook here.
The fact that Salt Upon Wounds calls the Couriour a "devil" is genuinely fucking disgusting. He has no goddamn right when he slaughtered countless innocents. His audacity for mercy never ceases to piss me off.
@@WAcrobat19The ones who attain undeserved power, who dole out merciless atrocities against innocents, who brag and boast on their high towers of themselves and nothing else, shall beg for mercy the loudest when it is their turn.
The fact that he honestly asked for mercy just got me like 💀
Edgy
I regret not telling Waking Cloud about her husband's death and while I took a bit of comfort in telling Follow-Chalks that the Mojave isn't perfect but neither is the life he has now and to follow whatever his heart desires. I worry that he may have been hurt during his journey and that he left without a trace.
Yet one thing I am glad about is that I PUT ALL OF MY POINTS INTO SPEECH!! I managed to convince Joshua to spare Salt Upon Wounds which made me sleep at night when I saw the ending of my Courier's trip to Zion. What a journey!
My mistake was not putting everything into Speech :/
“You understand me don’t you” mans was talking shit in his own language 😂🔥 Joshua is built different
You understand me dont you? Dont you….
>"thank you for....staying with me, I couldn't have done this on my own"
>Can single handedly slaughter all the white legs with his pistol without needing courier's help
Sure joshua, my "help"
When he's thanking the courier, he's not doing it because you helped him murder a bunch of goobledidooks, but because you talked him down from killing in the name of vengence and stayed his hand, therefore saving his soul in a way
"The best thing we have to offer, is good news."
Joshua is referring to staying his vengeance at his lowest point in the story, thereby creating in him a new spirit and finally giving him peace.
Joshua knows that he would have never been able to spare Salt Upon Wounds without the couriers intervention.
Here is a man capable and willing to exterminate the whitelegs allowing himself to listen to reason for the sake of his principles.
It takes something special to write a character like that.
God this looks so cool at night
I like the old fallout 1 ost in the background
Joshua Graham is the best character in the fallout series by far, not even an opinion just a hard fact
RIP Randall Dean Clark.
he would have murdered salt upon wounds, just saying
Randall wouldn't have killed Salt. This ending is literally fulfilling what he wanted for the Sorrows.
@@HifuutorianHe absolutely would have. He told the sorrows to be kind to each other but destroy any external threat from the outside.
@@doublem1975x And Salt ceased to be a threat when his fighting force got crushed.
Randall straight up would not have killed Salt (At least, in that way). Literally the whole point of convincing Joshua to spare him is to serve as a narrative parallel to Randall's story and beliefs about making peace with his past.
@@Hifuutorian Maybe you didn’t read all of his terminal entries. Randall was extremely ruthless in dispatching his enemies. He killed over 80 vault 22 refugees even after they were sick and ceased becoming a threat to him. He absolutely would’ve killed SUW and as many white legs as possible. The issue with the sorrows is they embraced a portion of Randall’s manifesto that embraces peace but forgot or disregarded the other part about eliminating threats. This made them vulnerable to external threats (I.e White legs). Yes there is a strong parallel between Joshua and Randall which makes siding with Joshua over Daniel much easier, besides that Daniel is an awful person.
You take a sip of your trusty Vault 13 canteen...
My new phrase, “Dont listen to this… thing!”
I really wish you were able to point out that he’s still acting like the legate even though he’s working against the legion now. He should know better, and know that killing this pawn tribe isn’t a meaningful way to get back at the legion
This isn't a "pawn tribe". They're a ravaging group of mass murderers who kill all they come across.
I think that was the intentional flaw with his character. Joshua was a man turned humble yes, but he still contained this deep seeded merciless bloodlust that never left him even after getting burned. Although his tribe's love saved him, they weren't able to quell that rage within him. You are able to up call him out on his redirected rage even if they don't let you compare him to his previous self. In the end It's up to us to finally teach him when to show mercy, in which he's finally able to experience peace.
Probably my second favorite character, next to Arthur in RDR2. Guess I like characters that manage to get redemption in some way
“Outman! Kuna-man mad!”
Power shell decided to randomly open so some of the dialogue was missed so I came here
I just killed salt upon wounds cus I just blew off ceasars head before this and I’m like what’s one more body. But then the ending happens and it basically said I fucked up 😭
Years later, I think it's fitting that Joshua turns to anger and revenge while there's a fire burning next to him.
When I played Honest Hearts, the ending I got really made me feel like I made all of the wrong choices despite my attempts to do what I felt what was best for as many people as possible; I let Salt-Upon-Wounds have a fighting chance so he could've at least enjoyed a warrior's death, only for the White Legs to persist in their hunt and the Sorrows turn war-like regardless, while Joshua remains an unforgiving killer.
I tell Follows-Chalk that civilization's worth seeing at least once (because it is), only for him to quarrel with his tribe and abruptly disappear one day, never to be seen or heard from again. I decide to keep the death of Waking Cloud's husband a secret, since telling her now could harm the tribe's morale when it's needed most, only for her to turn bitter and regularly preach against the New Canaanites, making tribal relations with them more difficult than they should be.
Enjoyable as Honest Hearts was, I walked away from the whole experience feeling like a fuck-up who may helped these people pull themselves out of one hole, only to then dig another for them all to fall into. At least I can tell myself it could've gone worse had I decided to execute Salt-Upon-Wounds; Joshua may still be cold, but him no longer reveling in the brutality at least shows signs of self-improvement. And the Sorrows may become proud and war-like, but at least they didn't turn into bloodthirsty savages like they could've. Oh, and the White Legs fail and eventually disband regardless... that's important, too.
I would say new vegas has a theme of their is never a truly good ending nor a bad one as we all are fighting for the same coin in the name of another. Here the spare route is good for the Zion community (like Dead Horses and Sorrows) as it makes them the most merciful and it makes Joshua merciful and healed inside, he still is the militarist warrior at heart. So he has realized that the revenge path is what he desires and that it isn't the correct way and gives up on it. The route where you let Salt-Upon-Wounds die by your hand in battle implies that Joshua still heals as he no longer enjoys the brutality and he is no longer is cruel, but he has still got a drive for revenge but he has it under control. The only one where it is a negative impact is if you pop a cap in General Gobbledigook and result in Joshua lusting for revenge, genocide, and destruction. You decide essentially in these endings does Joshua: repent and forgive (peaceful Joshua), become a soldier doing his duty and accepting he must stay calm (close to what he was during honest hearts so I guess Warrior Joshua), or become the Legate of his past life again (Legate/Revenant Joshua).
This impacts the world in several ways. In the case of peaceful Joshua Zion doesn't suffer more loses anymore but the White Legs get defeated by the 80s who take Salt Lake and the survivors escape. This potentially means they (White Legs) can reform in other tribes, be causing trouble by raiding in small bands, and the 80s now have more land which is bad. Warrior Joshua results in New Canaanites and Zion needing to fight of the remanent forces of the White Legs, but this time it is a offensive war and ambushes destroy what is left of the white legs and those that survive are killed off by the 80s. This means 80s might not have control of salt lake, white legs are gone and won't harm anyone anymore and won't reform, at the cost of maybe some Zion tribals and Canaanites. Legate Joshua results in the White legs slowly dying off in their retreat, and breaking up into more smaller bands. This means 80s might not have control of salt lake and now you got roving bands of tribals to deal with. So in summary the only path that reduces potential crime in the local regions is by killing off the White Legs resulting in the 80s having the least territory gain. Legate Joshua causes more potential crime, 80s still have less territory gain but at the cost of Joshua, and Joshua maybe leading a hyper militaristic force that can conquer the local region and terrify the local populations. Genocide and brutality will ensue. Peaceful Joshua destroys his symbol, but helps Joshua see the peace inside him and give up presumably on revenge, but he still performs it in the end but under the notion of defending his people.
Now with the Burned Man symbol, if Joshua become the Legate Joshua, it means people will fear him and it will protect Zion and the Canaanites from potential threats while providing hope for Caesar's enemies and Terrify the living crap out of tribals and even Caesar based on the fact he is wasting men and resources on chasing Joshua, though he may send more due to the Symbol growing in strength, but it will spread further. The Legion may even become threatened as a whole by Joshua. Now Warrior Joshua still retains the symbol but it doesn't change so the enemies of Caesar may still have hope in a force that opposes Caesar, Tribals will avoid Zion and Canaan due to fear, and Caesar will waste resources chasing Joshua, but probably won't was he anymore as he is/was doing currently same with Legion. Peaceful Joshua essentially loses the power of the Burning Man Symbol meaning Zion may soon (aka years later) be attacked by tribals seeking the land and tribals may forget the Burned Man symbol and may rise in power. Caesar may even lessen his searching for Joshua if the symbol is forgotten so more of his resources and men can be sent into the Mojave. This means it be worse for the NCR, and New Vegas, and anyone who is an enemy of Caesar as it may make them lose hope. Overall all the points are still not concrete points so it may still have some interpretation to them, but I hope this analysis may help you see why the endings aren't exactly cookie cutter good and bad. Also Follows Chalk following his dreams may be good in the end for him as he may find enjoyment in life and purpose, and considering he is never seen again like the Vault Dweller in 1 he may start a new family or residence somewhere where he'd be happy. So who knows he might actually be happier. This whole dilemma parallels people in real life having to decide do they pursue their dreams or comfort, with some failing and some succeeding. Is it inherently wrong for one to chase their dreams, and risk all comfort and certainty? Is it truly bad for one to stay at home and live a peaceful, boring, life that is comfortable with a family who loves you? In the base game there is a quest with Alice Hostetler where you can tell her something similar with Speech checks so in the end she doesn't murder her mom and run, but can find happiness in life. Regarding Waking Cloud I think the whole coming to terms with her Husbands death is probably the best option, as I don't see much of a benefit for Waking Cloud, but the Sorrows may accept Joshua more and his militarism allowing them to be more skeptical, though it is a bit of a long shot.
Whatever. Joshua, Put a cap in General Gobbledygook here
Honestly the best ending just depends on how you see things.
Consider the wasteland itself. It's nothing like the modern world we live in. Would fleeing benefit the tribes in the long run? Sure they wont be as aggressive which is morally good, but they can't keep running forever. Letting Joshua kill Salt and having the tribes be super militarized and aggressive is the morally wrong thing but consider that they're able to not only stay in Zion but they'll be much better prepared for future invaders or fights with raiders or other powers like the Legion.
All of NV's endings are only good or bad depending on how you see things. Is letting a morally "good" yet corrupt NCR stay in power good despite nothing changing for the better? Is it best for a brutal and morally reprehensible Legion stay in power since they can bring civilization to the wasteland for however long they last? Is it best for an autocrat with no real territory gain independence and power because he's the only one with a plan for humanity's future? Or do you trust yourself and an unquestioning robot to gain power and help the small town that helped you flourish despite the chaos that's caused in the streets on Vegas because you systematically destroyed every position of power to stand at the top.
What the shit is this about nothing getting better under the NCR? If you do the side quests, the ending describes almost everything getting better except for the taxes. Even Freeside starts getting better.
@@halosammy14 average ncr fan
@@vm_duc Do you have an actual argument?
@@halosammy14 why, you think i want to dEbAte? typical ncr profligate
@@vm_duc answred like a true champion
Whatever. Joshua put a cap in General Gobbledygook here.
Lee is that you
WE CAN'T EXPECT GOD TO DO ALL THE WORK
Damn..... I need to reload a save. It was very sad what happened to Daniel, how much pain I caused him by telling Joshua to kill salt upon..... I thought I was doing the right thing
If you care about ideals of redemption and the soul of only one man, then this is the best ending. But if your goal is to strike fear and terror in the hearts of the legion and the other raiding tribes, then your best option is to intensify the myth of a ruthless Joshua Graham. I want them to be afraid on every step, to know somewhere out there, there is a genocidal demigod who laughed at the face of death and completely erased an entire tribe from existence, executing their most powerful warrior like a little bitch. Remember: this is apocalypse, not civilization. The ever growing rage of the Sorrows and the Burning Man is a small price to pay for all the peace that is purchased with blood and guts of our enemies.
Okay so no lie as a kid playing this with the first time. I did do the holes each month like you did and was fully expecting Joshua to come fight and was worried I was going to get curb stomped
So no matter what ending you choose, Joshua Graham increases the militancy of the tribals. And they revere him.
Well, war never changes and all that.
not really, in this ending the tribals and joshua also learn how to make peace and mercy.
3:54 So this is what Asajj Ventress is doing these days
don't do shaman like that you fool
How does someone not have guns maxed out by the time they hit level 40?
I honestly hated how it ended I wish you could have told the sorrows to fall back and just tend to the wounded keep their innocence while it might make them seem weak they didn’t deserve to become the way they did more so when the survivor in Zion tried so hard to teach and protect them from the horrors of the world taking it as his own atonement for what happened. The survivor was a good man and a fighter like Joshua and Daniel
Innocents is good for children. Not for sociality. Another tribe who has no innocent would just whip them out
They were too sheltered from reality, and besides, what fun is that? Adding drama and weight to your choices makes you feel the consequences. Like real life, things aren’t always clear cut and dry. There are winners, losers, and people just caught in the middle trying to make sense of it all
The only thing i hate is not being able to see joshua again after completion of honest hearts ahjcshocehlvpjsvupvsylcs
Actually,if you read the survivors journals, you find out that he WANTED them to fight and defend themselves, he also wanted them to enter his caves and get to his loot, but i guess he forgot to disarm the traps
I think I accidentally got the bad ending
eh, I prefer the sneering imperialist option
Machiavelli would strongly disagree with this
I’m a Baptist, I greatly honor J Sawer for treating Christianity with respect. It feels like the teachings of Christ are lost on folks just because of the failures of our forefathers.
I agree, it's also one of those things where people forget christianity isn't easy. This DLC, the thing I like about it and it helped me with my faith a lot, I'm an SDA. But what helped me with my faith was knowing everyone struggles spiritually and we all fall but we just keep getting up and forgiven by the Lord. Its sad our forefathers have failed us, christianity gets a bad rep.
"Best Possible Ending" is woefully subjective.
Where's the secret ending where Daniel's actually happy with the outcome instead of being haunted by either option?
Daniel is haunted because he himself is not at peace, he just conceals it, unlike Joshua, who lays his soul bare as a lesson and warning.
@@rustyshackleford1508 yeah I kinda like that with New Vegas in general because of how raw it is on certain subjects. Chatacters like Daniel and Veronica dont get good endings but rather are bitter sweet. Daniel in particular as you stated is not at peace because he is guilty over losing many tribes to the White Legs and blames himself for not saving them. He wants a perfect world where there is no violence and the Sorrows forever remain innocent but in Fallout the world is brutal and despite this ending where the Sorrows learn to defend themselves but still are not a violent tribe, it still bothers Daniel because no matter what it was never going to have his perfect outcome
Does anyone know if you can talk to Joshua again after finishing the DLC? Or does it disappear forever?
Why would I make Joshua spare him if we have killed a decent amount of White Legs already, who were under the command of THIS guy. It makes no sense. Also, making him fight just seems out of place, like making his death longer for the sake of it, so I just answered "no objections" to Joshua
Its not for the morality its for Joshua. Its so he can be at peace. Also making him fight is so its an honorable death.
Can you talk to joshua after? :/ somehow?
Should have gotten sneering imperialist
y do u hate lasers?
Brothers and Sisters, as it is written in the Book of Psalms:
"But as for me, in Thy mercy do I trust; My heart shall rejoice in Thy salvation. I will sing unto The LORD, because He hath dealt bountifully with me." (Psalm 13:5-6 - How long, O LORD?)
Brothers, do you understand what this means? This is without a doubt the steadfast love of God, the love which we must share. We are man. Not tools, not characters in a bygone story or myth, we are not tomorrows idols but man, alive and redeemed, ready for the life of the world to come. In this fleeting world there is all the more those who are dead and their works which are dead because they have yet to be alive, to reject the world and rejoice in God Almighty. Beloved, you and I, we pray the prayer of thanksgiving indeed, not for what we have but for Him who has given us what we have. We pray for our daily bread, we pray that we may see our Brothers, both those near and far off because we love them as He loves them. Above all these earthly things is the most of all spiritual gifts, the salvation that only comes from God. He delivered it by Our LORD and Savior, Jesus Christ whose life was for us and our life for Him who saved us from Gehenna. This is the steadfast love of God, that even when we are at our worst there is only better to come, and we know just who gives us that which is better for us. Brother, be baptized and repent of sinfulness and have steadfast faith in Our LORD and Savior, Jesus Christ, who is the same yesterday and today and tomorrow. Amen and Amen.
-Ezekiel
Awww you shoulda let follows chalk explore the world.
In truth I agree with Joshuah Grahams actions by putting Salt Upon Wounds to death, and I'm sure he has strong reasons based on scripture.
In genesis 9 it says
6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
And in numbers 35 it says
15These six cities shall be a refuge, both for the children of Israel, and for the stranger, and for the sojourner among them: that every one that killeth any person unawares may flee thither.
16And if he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.
17And if he smite him with throwing a stone, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.
18Or if he smite him with an hand weapon of wood, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.
19The revenger of blood himself shall slay the murderer: when he meeteth him, he shall slay him.
20But if he thrust him of hatred, or hurl at him by laying of wait, that he die;
21Or in enmity smite him with his hand, that he die: he that smote him shall surely be put to death; for he is a murderer: the revenger of blood shall slay the murderer, when he meeteth him.
22But if he thrust him suddenly without enmity, or have cast upon him any thing without laying of wait,
23Or with any stone, wherewith a man may die, seeing him not, and cast it upon him, that he die, and was not his enemy, neither sought his harm:
24Then the congregation shall judge between the slayer and the revenger of blood according to these judgments:
25And the congregation shall deliver the slayer out of the hand of the revenger of blood, and the congregation shall restore him to the city of his refuge, whither he was fled: and he shall abide in it unto the death of the high priest, which was anointed with the holy oil.
Romans 12
19. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.
Something that isn't ever explained is why Joshua joined Ceasar anyways. Like how did he go from being a missionary to commit atrocities for Ceasar before being burned alive?
I forget if Joshua or Caesar tells you, but he started as an interpreter. They say something like "interpreting led to giving orders. Giving orders led to leading in battle."
So basically the analogy of the frog in boiling water: you don't realize how far gone you are until it's too late.
not the best ending imo
Is this a good ending?
Yes
Yes? All other endings are objectively bad for Joshua Graham’s character.
This ending literally shows us that it was selfish want for revenge and anger that drove Joshua to be “The Burned Man” in his fight against Salt-Upon-Wounds. He was still just the shadow of the fascist warlord known as Malpais Legate.
But when he put down the gun, he had already defeated his foes. He wouldn’t ever go to that place again. He had to come to terms with the fact him wanting his anger to be God’a anger was selfishness, not righteousness.
He had to set aside the flames that burned him, anger, and embrace the flames that saved him, love.
In one ending, the legend of the burned man increases and he becomes another Caesar.
In another ending, at best he “appeases his demons”, but he cannot ever truly call himself redeemed.
There is no point in looking up to Joshua Graham as a character if you do not believe this to be the best ending.
@@randomusernamedandrew7663Very well stated.
The dlc is super boring. Sneaking doesnt work well in Fallout NV so fighting enemies in a tribe like fashion really sucks. The weapons there are all boring, nothing cool to loot
The tribes are all primitives and had some outsiders told how to behave and what to think...
You cant return which sucks too. You just wonder through some boring wasteland killing sone Indianer with Axes