Katya's reaction is exactly how I feel about this show. I don't understand how everyone involved in this show didn't just spend the entire doc going "I am extremely ashamed of the behavior I perpetuated and I am so sorry"
It’s touching to see how human and empathetic Katya is. She is literally crying for them. Katya and Trixie were supposed to have fun, but in the end they were deeply sad, exactly how I felt watching it. It was truly touching.
President Coin: “In lieu of these barbaric executions, we hold a symbolic Hunger Games" to propose another Hunger Games (after the war) using the children of Capitol officials. Lol, Tyra has been waiting for your unborn kids to grow up to then subject them to the same fate as ANTM
Absolutely horrific, they full on taped her assault then manipulated her and everyone else to fill their bank accts and never once thought or moved to protect her. Despicable, cruel, inhumane.
Is there anything shandi can do legally? Because it’s without her consent, and a violation of her rights? Suing for damages? It ruined her life. Genuinely so disgusting to see that there was no justice for what happened to her. I feel like Tyra should pay money out of
wow the visibility of the difference on their trauma responses. while trixie just uncomfortably giggling and making jokes to divert, katya just simply shuts down and get quite
I don't care if reality TV was new it's no excuse. You don't do this to people, to young women. Tyra WAS the creator AND producer of everything. Her distancing herself from her actions disgusts me. Those women should be able to take all of them to court, contracts they signed at the time need to be gone through with a fine tooth comb by a mf'ing big lawyer. Miss Jay. Jay. Tyra. Are all responsible for being cruel, for gaslighting, setting these girls up to be exploited for entertainment. And whoever else was behind Tyra.
@MissVanHelsing Exactly. Ethics, morals and human decency don't magically stop existing because something is "new". We all know right from wrong - or at least, should know. They chose to ignore all that purely for monetary gain.
Yeah because it’s like how could you sit there and crack jokes when you’re watching people being traumatized? It’s disturbing and I understand why she’s sitting there quietly. It’s uncomfortable for her to watch and also I’m sure it’s a somber experience.
Exactly! Like, even if she may not have come up with the ideas for challenges herself, she sure as shit would have at least had a say as not just an exec, but the FACE OF THE WHOLE SHOW. The amount of deflection in this whole doc is just staggering
She also brags about how great an editor she was and how long she spent editing. So, she been knew and saw all the horrendous shit and made the decision to keep it in the cut!!
And even if she deny it more and say that it’s just a producer credit along the way. She was still the driving force as EP in the first season, in Shandi’s Season!
People look at how Katya’s reaction was shutting down and being upset, and while that’s true, how she handled it was so much more intentional and deeper. She didn’t shut down she stopped giving the camera what they wanted, she wasn’t just comfortable but made everyone else feel the uncomfortable air of her silence specifically to high light the problematic footage, while she didn’t speak much we all felt her disapproval of the show’s actions loud and clear. Katya is emotionally intelligent and intentional love her
@Loplex02Which is how it should be. I get what Trixie was doing here but watching her ‘argue’ (and I use that term VERY loosely) against Katya rightfully calling stuff out was slightly annoying. But I mean what else are you gonna do lmao?
i got so irritated at the scapegoat for the whole modeling industry comment like you know damn fucking well that’s not the point im so glad katya immediately was like well she’s responsible for the shit things she did on the show???
The Netflix producer saying “fair use” when Trixie and Katya popped up on the documentary, when Netflix is one of the biggest copyright strikers on RUclips was absolutely wild
I was shocked they didn't know. The fact that it was Trixies house that had custom wall paper (and was this the same house she did on H&Gtv? Wouldn't they need clearance?) All I kmow is when we used 900 vintage ties on the don cherry mini series, we had to get legal clearance for every single tie. (Contacted designers & clothing companies. It took weeks)
@C@Costumerchxhe RUclipsr in the clip before their’s also came out with a video covering this doc. She expressed how she’s pretty pissed that they used her clip without permission or compensation, esp bc of what op said! All those clips of tiktoks and yt videos pretty much violate copyright law. It’s honestly so gross that Netflix did that and the original creators don’t approve of their clips being used without permission.
Seriously - Trixie was obvy making it a little more light hearted to keep the energy up, but damn I’d be lying if I said I didn’t have the same reaction as Katya did actually watching it. Genuine disgust for how manipulative ANTM production was
You must not know how TV/film work. She was literally just the face. Her idea, then the network took it and ran. They shipped it to every network, and for every “no” they had to change things, compromise, etc making it less and less like her original brain child. She probably didnt see many final cuts.
@nmcinern12the problem is that Tyra made a big point of 'her' show being run differently, and that she was involved in every step. Whether she was or not, she can't have it be both ways
Trixie’s right about people forgetting that Drag Race was originally a lot more of an ANTM and Runway spoof- there was a bigger focus on fashion related challenges (though they still do a few) and there was that little gag when they’d sit for their interviews with Ru towards the finale where they’d be offered food and take a single Tic Tac as a joke to how little the people on the other shows eat 💀
Just in relation to this thread: I love Katya too, but I don't think even she would be up in arms about this type of comment either, or the fact that anyone truly "unproblematic" would even agree. It *is* performative to an extent but on the part of fans who seem to enjoy putting people up on a pedestal for simply being compassionate. It's not nihilistic, it's not that worthy of praise because we should be expecting that from every person who has influence. Her having good values does make us love her more, of course. Just my own thinkpiece, as Trixie also encourages by the end.
38:58 Trixie jokes about Katya having one foot in the grave and how they only hang out when they are on camera, but this moment was a window into how much they each really mean to each other. People talk about Trixie as though she’s sometimes cold or a bit selfish, but that bitch would genuinely take care of Katya in any situation. I’m confident that she would give her sponge baths and change her diapers if Katya ever got seriously sick. Their bond goes beyond any kind of romantic love cuz it’s the kind of love that keeps someone in your life through anything and everything
I watched moving parts and that doc showed me how real their friendship is. That time was rough for their fans and especially for Trixie. Trixie held it together for both her and Katya even when she's aching and even when Katya isn't being kind to Trixie and herself (there was a part about Katya lashing out at Trixie when he relapsed). Trixie kept the boat afloat for them both, so when Katya was ready and healthy enough to come back she'd still have a career waiting for her. She's a ride or die for Katya. I forgot where she said this but Trixie mentioned something about Katya being like a platonic husband for her. There's always love there and they'll always be there for each other.
Katya saying, "I was just following orders." is impeccable truth. Nigel and Mr. Jay trying to play all innocent now, but they were certainly part of the problem.
They were all absolutely a part of the problem and are all trying to pretend their innocent 🤮 They could have totally taken accountability for this and spun it a better way but they will never do it. Janice Dickinson was also grotesque. It's making me mad, they're delusional. Even for the time. I don't care. Tyra's gross.
It so dramatically is. They all participated. Nobody held a gun to their head and forced them. The entire cast AND production team are responsible, using Tyra as a scapegoat doesn’t absolve them even if she IS terrible.
@wakememckinney7126 It may be a different intensity but that type of thinking does lead to the same _type_ of outcomes. Obviously the original quote is about one of the most extreme events in human history but there’s a reason people invoke it for all sorts of other things.
@user-kh8kz4ck3zI was thinking that too!!!!! like Netflix notoriously strikes even so much as the MENTION of a clip from one of their shows being used in a yt video but they don’t fear being striked in return? Grossssss
had a shit day at work and was so excited to get transported into what I assumed would be multigenerational fabulousness, only to have to do diaphragmatic, somatic and pragmatic breath work through all 42 minutes and 31 seconds of this.
the exploitation and pure evilness of creating misery in these young women AND filming it AND yelling at them for having human reactions.. it's insane how diabolical the show and Tyra are.
And the worst part is that all this talk of "Oh, the fashion industry has changed" is a lie. Nothing has changed, you can see it in the latest runways where all the models are rail-thin and clearly on Ozempic to their eyeballs!
My theory is that it’s inclusion in this video is Netflix’s version of saying “and what are you gonna do about it? It’s legal.” And if that IS the case then EWWW
They don’t care about them, it’s a profit making company they don’t give a shit about trixie or katya personally. It’s disgusting behaviour but that’s capitalism for you
Oh no, not only that. They included several clips of her on the phone arguing with her boyfriend from the beginning because he went out with another girl and that caused tension meaning they intentionally created her storyline to be “the girl who cheated to get back at her boyfriend”, which would’ve been bad enough as it is but then they also made sure to make her blackout drunk to hopefully get the most dramatic crecendo possible for their edit. They wanted the evil edit so bad they were willing to put her in harms way to get it. They planned the whole thing, taking advantage of a young woman who had no way of understanding how reality tv bs works. Even when the other girl did and called it out when she was inappropriately touched they chose to frame it as her being “difficult”. They didn’t give a fuck about those girls and they should face the consequences of it
@antonygoon9694she used to go very in detail of her troubled history before drag race, lotta educational stuff and stuff that resonates, i dont think that she likes that they're still out there though
I wish the model would have said "oh! I don't know much about Egyptian history, what have they been through?" And just watch Tyra flounder. Just kidding, they would never have aired that.
And for Tyra to invite her in her talk show and traumatize her again and made her responsible for being SA’d while her mother was in the audience! How can anyone defend Tyra’s actions?
The fact that someone can get assaulted on camera and was called "a cheater"... Tyra should be ashamed to perpetuate this kind of abuse onto other women.
What bothers me is that no one is calling what happened to shandi as what it is which is r*pe- she could not give consent. They filmed a crime and showed it to millions
@veilche People often censor it because certain words are flagged for "offensive language" etc. on social mediat, so often when you see people censoring it is because they don't want their comment removed. Usually they aren't trying to take away from the seriousness of the crime. But also consider that many survivors prefer not to see the word, so it is respectful to many of them in the end as well. Try not to let it bother you. :)
and tyra having shandi on the tyra show and trying to show her the tape??? absolutely insane. and bringing up that her long term boyfriend broke up with her over it. that entire thing was so fucked up. i remember seeing that as a young teen and thinking she just cheated. seeing it as an adult? horrifying.
You can also just hear the hatred in Katya's voice when she speaks about Tyra. This episode just brought a whole lot of realness that I was just not expecting.
Shandi, vevé. Mi mamá lleva casi 30 años trabajando en Walgreens aquí en P.R. Con ese trabajo me crió y a mi hermano. Que no te de vergüenza, es un trabajo honesto. No le hiciste daño a nadie como Tyra lo hizo con ustedes.
They did this in the show! I remember a shoot where they portrayed a famous couple and Tocarra was Beyonce and jay z! If I remember correctly they told her that she looked better as Jay
@samanthaleo2590close, it wasn't Toccara (who was in cycle 3). It was in Cycle 7, and it was Eugena as Bey and Jay (it was a celebrity couple photoshoot; the girl who had just recently started questioning her sexuality, Michelle, was assigned Ellen and Portia because of course she was).
@simplicitylostooh, Abu Simbel has a Stonehenge-type trick built in where the sun hits the holy of holies in the back of the temple on a specific day or two, if you also like more general-astronomy stuff.
@FurikoMaru Ooh! Interesting! I’ll have to investigate that. It’s unlikely that date will be the same as when the eclipse is (August 2, 2027). This one is going to be the longest one for a while. Most total eclipses are between 1 and 3 minutes, but this one will be over 6 minutes in Egypt (longest will be near Luxor). The eclipse is mostly passing over North Africa (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Saudi Arabia) but it will also be in the very, very south of Spain for those who don’t want to go to Africa. Totality will only be 4 minutes there, but still, it will be longer than the usual eclipse. By the way, a total solar eclipse _will_ eventually pass over Stonehenge, though not until 2974, but I still think it’s cool that we know it definitely will happen eventually.
The irony of Trixie saying "I thought today we were all going to laugh about how fun all this was", and that sentiment being the point of this documentary is..... not lost on me. The plight of just being a woman will forever be over looked and swept away until we speak LOUDLY about it. We are (sadly) lucky that only some listen when we yell. Thank you Trixie and Katya for listening.
I remember Tyra fully gaslighting a dark-skinned black woman who was trying to explain that life is way more difficult & different for her than for a lighter skinned black woman
@S@SwamehI feel the same as you. I get that sometimes you have to kind of “play the game” or whatever, for work. I don’t think poorly of Trixie. I do feel exactly like Katya.
Look at how quick Tyra and the gang are to take praise for the good parts of ANTM and then how they’re acting stupid and confused when smth they need to take accountability for is brought up.
36:26 I was crying right alongside Katya here. It’s easy to laugh about the craziness but it’s so horrific to see an assault survivor be forced to relive her assault over and over again for the sake of ‘entertainment’. As a rape survivor myself I sincerely hope Shandi has gotten support. Tyra, Ken, and all the showrunners can fucking choke.
@fromdecay that's theoretically true, but in reality corporations strike and remove and steal reactor's pay all the time 🤣 fair use only works if you have the money to pay high powered lawyers to fight the largest corporations in the world, aka impossible.
Katya being quiet because she was so upset. Is so real. Because same sis. That was me watching this doc. I still believe Tyra and the entire production team should be hold accountable for their abuse
I was a teenager during this time and remember how normalized all of this was. The misogyny, body shaming, rape culture, homophobia, racism... and then the emergence of the industry that fed on all of it. There's a reason we considered reality tv trash, because it fucking is
Well and you can’t blame yourself. The show was very edited and produced to make you believe it and Tyra and all those other people running the show had a lot of credibility back then so you took it at face value. They essentially gaslit the models and viewers to normalize the behavior and actions that were done to the contestants. Don’t’ blame yourself, blame the producers of this show and the network executives that allowed it.
I started watching this series before I even hit my teen years. It was my introduction to black face and for a while I thought it was a good thing since this show framed it in a positive light. Thank GOD I never did anything with that belief and I learned in middle school how fucked it was
I remember watching Top Model (and other reality tv) as a kid/teen back then, and there being all these moments that made me so uncomfortable. At some points I used to think "this feels wrong, why is this allowed?" but everyone acted like it was normal, the adults of that generation didn't seem to have a problem with it so nothing was ever done. I especially remember when they used to have all those 'troubled teen' documentaries where they were kidnapped and basically tortured in camps, or the ones where they'd bring on someone with an eating disorder and make them strip to their underwear and insult and humiliate them. I would get SO angry watching those I'd be shaking, but everyone just acted like it was normal.
I think there’s a lot to be said that the most horrific things on this show are the things a lot of people don’t remember. Like that’s what the culture was at that time, that’s what life was like at that time that the r*pe (censored cuz social media is weird) and the drug/bulimic photo shoot and stuff like that are things we don’t even remember. Cuz it wasn’t that shocking at that time. And this was only 25 years ago, things have changed SO much, thank god.
Yes plz, the anger I felt at Tyra announcing the new cycle was intense. It cemented for me that her remorse was not genuine and she’s only doing this to promote the new season. And this is coming from someone who was watching cycles 3-10 live on tv.
This was one of the most emotional episodes of queens love to watch. The love you show for each other, the queer community, and women is so evident. It’s so important to cry over things that are terrible. Them showing Shanis SA over and over again and making it her fault. Truly horrifying.
When that came out, portraying on TV that it was Shani's fault when they set up the situation, filmed these young women drunk, in a condition where consent wasn't possible, then monetized her horror and heartbreak...it's just sickening, and it really sent a horrible message to their viewers. So exploitative. She was curled up, wrecked. And the camera crew told Shani "sorry we had to film that"...did you really have to, or could you have done anything else? She must have felt so horrible. I couldn't have gotten past it. Katya looked really disturbed. I appreciate that she understood and truly cared. Tyra should be ashamed.
@andromedaspark2241I can’t believe they taped it. Other reality shows like Intervention have stopped if subjects are in danger, Real World stopped Ruthie from driving and so many other instances. If she drank two bottles of wine, they didn’t give them much food while also being that thin they had to know it was too much and should have stepped in knowing she couldn’t consent and I have never heard of any reality show taping sexual acts. Not The Real World, not Jersey Shore or any of them.
@jgarofalo8813 then to tape and broadcast her conversation with her boyfriend! They were malicious. That was maximum humiliation and pain, every thing they did. And young people, girls in particular, got a totally messed up lesson about consent. How many people who were later assaulted while incapacitated blamed themselves after internalizing that message? I know I didn't understand that someone taking advantage while very drunk is assault.
The girls were not prepared to keep it light and jokey this time. And i respect that. They were pissed. They were upset. And im glad they didnt just joke through it. Which i wouldnt expect them to joke about things like sa anyway
@Ashleighchubbybunny yes ive noticed this as well in past episodes especially on the pod too, and its very frustrating to me and makes me not want to watch trixie.
@Ashleighchubbybunnyit wasn’t tasteless, it’s how people choose to deal with uncomfortable situations and it’s her job. Get your head out of your ass and off your high horse.
When Tyra apologised to one of the contestants, and called her Booboo while doing it, was a total slap in the face. When I watched this doco I was instantly enraged and felt sick for those girls ♥️
I really understood the emotion they both felt over Miss Jay. Queer people who are unapologetically themselves are so important and inspiring and it truly broke my heart to see Miss Jay like that. Prayers for them and their future health
Absolutely. I often think about how I grew up seeing characters like Angel in rent or people like Miss Jay or Isis on tv and to me it was always just normal. Just another person in the world who happens to express themselves differently from most people in my real life. If I hadn’t grown up with exposure to those personalities and expressions, it’s possible I might’ve been biased against queer culture, just by virtue of not being exposed to it and seeing it as “other.” Having queer representation in media is SO important, even for people like me (white, cis, straight), because we desperately need to see diversity as a normal and essential piece of our communities.
@Lau3464l That's like saying that the serial killer from Silence of the Lambs was amazing queer representation. If Miss Jay meant a lot to you.... oh honey, there were plenty of other shows and books that could've given you actual life. The whole doc was about how superficial, exploitative and repugnant these people were. They publicly humiliated and traumatised women for money. Did you even watch what we all watched? lol
@bradp8787 right ? i recognize the work miss jay has done outside of antm & how iconic their legacy is but it doesn't erase the fact that she was also complicit in the abuse of these young women . i wish them well with their health, strokes are no joke, but never will i look up to them for the part he played in mistreating young women on tv . her, nigel & mr. j spent the entire docuseries deflecting blame onto tyra without really owning up to the negative impact they all had a hand in during their time on the show . maybe i'd feel differently if they actually took proper accountability instead of hiding behind the bigger evil (tyra & higher up production staff)
@bradp8787 the documentary is just a clean image for everyone and just blame it on tyra. Sure, she was bad, the rest were no better. They just like to pretend that they were force to do it by tyra. Outside the antm miss jay, maybe a sweet and dear person that did alot of things. But in the show, he was nasty, cruel and bad like tyra and the rest of them.
As long as you aren’t stealing money from innocent people, you shouldn’t ever be ashamed of your job. I’ve been a waitress and bartender for five years. I’m proud to support myself honestly.
39:15 trixie turning to katya and saying, you can never die. Is so real to me. I hope you both never die ladies. We love you wayyy too much❤ stay safe ladies
The utter callousness of Production to be approached by a young person in tears as they confess to feeling violated and unsafe at a worksite that YOU created, and interpret them as being difficult and whiny. That is inhumane.
That's the industry. I worked on a production recently, in an insanely hostile work environment. Telling my union and HR got me retaliated against and lost my job, and i was left swinging in the wind, with zero accountability for the multiple abusers. (Narcissist with flying monkeys). I even had many co workers offering to corroborate my complaints and nothing was done. No one was contacted. Unfortunately we haven't REALLY come all that far.
I think this whole show is a really good lesson on how in a society that is intrinsically misogynistic, even those who don't have power or are perceived as "safe" to women (other women, gay men) can end up upholding misogynistic standards and harming women. It's a hard lesson to learn. My own sexual assault made me realize that I couldn't immediately trust other women to look out for my safety or mental health. Shandi's story is not a fluke, there are many women with stories like hers.
I’m so sorry you went through that. And my heart breaks for Shandi. That was horrific to watch, cannot imagine living through it and then repeatedly exposed to the trauma of SA through airings of the show and this doc. 1000% agreed: internalized misogyny by other women continues to traumatize and harm. Until women truly support each other and stand up to misogyny, the cycle of abuse will continue. Sending you healing wishes on your journey . . .
"It raises a lot of concerns around exploitation" says the documentary moments before we learn that they did not ask a single creators permission for any clip
Funniest part is that that very clip is taken from a youtube video they did not ask permission to use EITHER!!!!! It's by Elle Literacy, highly recommend it!
Trixie and Katya crying for some of the things these girls went through makes me love them even more. and then telling each other they better not die first 😭so sweet
@101spacemonkeyit's such a blatant double standard. Reactors getting their channel blocked because copyright strikes. AI algorithms can give you a strike for a video you've never even released and you cannot contest it because you're small fry. But big name companies want to use your material? ✅ What's legal is what's spoken up for by money. The whole "yOU woUlDn'T StEaL a cAR" ad stole its music, stole its font. When a company (something that should be *more* accountable than an individual) steals, it's fair use. When you do fair use, it's stealing. They were suing people how much for downloading a Britney song or Metallica song? Wasn't the figure more money than the entire world GDP at that point?? But oh, our AI black hole, in goes your content. Do you have no rights 👏 rights are for companies 👏👏 not people 👏 lol I'm surprised maga States hasn't changed the term human rights to companies' manifest destiny rights
i mean... if you talk abt a show, you're using their hype for your own benefit. I think it's only fair if said show uses the content in which you specifically talk about it and it's no shade, but if you look at the bigger picture, it's a bit silly
@101spacemonkeyThey don't. It's actually considered fair use. If the content used was owned by a network or streaming service they would have to ask but the content they used is from RUclips and a whole different set of rules apply to RUclips content because you voluntarily upload RUclips content.
13:40 "it's a little difficult for me to talk about production because that's not my territory" with Executive Producer sitting underneath her name 😭☝️🙃
katya simply STONE COLD FUMING after shandi and just not f* having it for the rest of it is honestly heartwarming. Like THANK YOU that is the correct response
Netflix didn't ask permission from ANY content creators to use clips for this documentary. I follow Luxeria and she was unexpectedly thrown off to see herself in it when she was doing a review watch for her channel. Netflix.. do betterrrrrrr. At least give the heads up.
![Gucci Mane - Crash Dummy [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m65MJSC1Jto/mqdefault.jpg)
"She's a monster" - Katya always has the correct take.
I need Trixie screaming "Tyra is a t3rror1st!!" to become a thing
No one always has the correct take stop idolizing celebrities
"Fair use? It's fair of you to send us a check through the mail!" Katya is so quick omg
She doesn't miss a beat!
@TeaPenFileLamp OOOO AINT NO OTHER WAY
They’re both really so smart and quick
@Librams88 I think we ALL sing
Katya's reaction is exactly how I feel about this show. I don't understand how everyone involved in this show didn't just spend the entire doc going "I am extremely ashamed of the behavior I perpetuated and I am so sorry"
Yes. The Shandi part was shocking to me. That was r. pe.
they don't appear to feel human emotions such as shame. fucking leeches
There were NDA's involved. I'm sure when those are up, people will be spilling everything.
Mtv shows had no shame, don't see how the producers would have any shame 😑.
@sherrythomas3028 NDAs are problematic, because it assumes that it covers illegal actions when it doesn't.
I have never seen such outright DISGUST on Katya’s face during a program. Living for it
Lol seriously, she is not amused and I’m not either
I live for Katya, period! When she told Lindsey Graham to “shut up faggot!" Oh, mama!
this was me.. I was so mad and I wanted to scream, but mostly I just cried every ten minutes
Her level of seriousness the only way to digest all of this
I mean honestly, this is my first time exposed to this doc and it’s fucking JARRING! I don’t remember the show being this fucking unhinged
you could see katyas light disappear in front of her eyes in real time
Katya once talked about her own experience with SA so I doubt she would ever take it lightly.
Her whole face and body just shrunk.
@jnichol14805my heart was hurting so bad for her watching this 💔
@OiOBlinkingOwl And fidgeting with her hair to self soothe :(
@Jam-ov3gdoh then Tyra saying that she went to her and apologized must’ve pissed katya off bc it pissed me off.
It’s touching to see how human and empathetic Katya is. She is literally crying for them. Katya and Trixie were supposed to have fun, but in the end they were deeply sad, exactly how I felt watching it. It was truly touching.
A whole doc about how abusive the show was and then her announcing cycle 25. It's giving hunger games quarter quell announcement
lollll
Omg hi chad michaels !!
@Masarisik WAIT is this cuz he kept referencing hunger games all stars 1?
@Ackshualee yes lol chad is obsessed with the hunger games (rightfully so)
President Coin: “In lieu of these barbaric executions, we hold a symbolic Hunger Games" to propose another Hunger Games (after the war) using the children of Capitol officials. Lol, Tyra has been waiting for your unborn kids to grow up to then subject them to the same fate as ANTM
Never seen Katya SO DONE and I respect the hell out of it.
An evil sims character is the funniest and most accurate thing I’ve ever heard about that scene
I have NEVER seen Katya so pissed off and over it during a taping. She is so angry and I’m right there with her
I had to stop watching after no one on the doc said that what happened to shandi was SA... SO disturbing and horrible.
I agree, I don’t think I’ve ever seen Katya visibly bothered by what she was seeing. She was upset because she was just quiet during those moments.
same.
Absolutely horrific, they full on taped her assault then manipulated her and everyone else to fill their bank accts and never once thought or moved to protect her. Despicable, cruel, inhumane.
RIGHT THERE WITH HER
Katya crying for Shandi…. She’s truly a kind soul
Totally! The models' true stories is heartbreaking
Ugh I love Katya
Is there anything shandi can do legally? Because it’s without her consent, and a violation of her rights? Suing for damages? It ruined her life.
Genuinely so disgusting to see that there was no justice for what happened to her.
I feel like Tyra should pay money out of
I am supporting Shandis dream by getting a cameo from her. *hint hints bidge nudge people*
Katya crying brought me to tears 💔💔💔
wow the visibility of the difference on their trauma responses. while trixie just uncomfortably giggling and making jokes to divert, katya just simply shuts down and get quite
Thank you for seeing what’s really happening x
Trixie hid in the corner for a minute.
,literally and people getting mad at trixie like people don't express discomfort differently
I felt the same thing…. holy shit, as someone who has experienced life quite similar to Katya… I was so uncomfortable with Trixie’s reaction.
@h4zeyblu3sshe needs to learn to read the room. Is she going to giggle at a fucking funeral?
You know when Katya is UPSET because girl gets quiet
I don't care if reality TV was new it's no excuse. You don't do this to people, to young women. Tyra WAS the creator AND producer of everything. Her distancing herself from her actions disgusts me. Those women should be able to take all of them to court, contracts they signed at the time need to be gone through with a fine tooth comb by a mf'ing big lawyer. Miss Jay. Jay. Tyra. Are all responsible for being cruel, for gaslighting, setting these girls up to be exploited for entertainment. And whoever else was behind Tyra.
i really worried about her
@MissVanHelsing Exactly. Ethics, morals and human decency don't magically stop existing because something is "new". We all know right from wrong - or at least, should know. They chose to ignore all that purely for monetary gain.
Yeah because it’s like how could you sit there and crack jokes when you’re watching people being traumatized? It’s disturbing and I understand why she’s sitting there quietly. It’s uncomfortable for her to watch and also I’m sure it’s a somber experience.
The thousand yard stare of wanting to tear your own skin off in Katya's eyes
Tyra being the executive producer and denying responsibility for the disgusting things done...is unforgivable.
"I wasn't part of production" - Executive Producer Tyra Banks
Exactly! Like, even if she may not have come up with the ideas for challenges herself, she sure as shit would have at least had a say as not just an exec, but the FACE OF THE WHOLE SHOW. The amount of deflection in this whole doc is just staggering
She also brags about how great an editor she was and how long she spent editing. So, she been knew and saw all the horrendous shit and made the decision to keep it in the cut!!
And even if she deny it more and say that it’s just a producer credit along the way. She was still the driving force as EP in the first season, in Shandi’s Season!
Everything ‘good’ she took credit for, but the second it was something bad (read traumatic) suddenly she had nothing to do with it???
People look at how Katya’s reaction was shutting down and being upset, and while that’s true, how she handled it was so much more intentional and deeper. She didn’t shut down she stopped giving the camera what they wanted, she wasn’t just comfortable but made everyone else feel the uncomfortable air of her silence specifically to high light the problematic footage, while she didn’t speak much we all felt her disapproval of the show’s actions loud and clear.
Katya is emotionally intelligent and intentional love her
miss trixie tried so hard to keep this light but my god
All shade no remorse like Katya was DONE
@Loplex02Which is how it should be. I get what Trixie was doing here but watching her ‘argue’ (and I use that term VERY loosely) against Katya rightfully calling stuff out was slightly annoying. But I mean what else are you gonna do lmao?
Trixie has elements of "trya"......so it's hard for her. lol
i got so irritated at the scapegoat for the whole modeling industry comment like you know damn fucking well that’s not the point im so glad katya immediately was like well she’s responsible for the shit things she did on the show???
@msampson2286 Katya is a real one.
The Netflix producer saying “fair use” when Trixie and Katya popped up on the documentary, when Netflix is one of the biggest copyright strikers on RUclips was absolutely wild
The nerve...
It's true. But also I'm sure that lady in the studio was joking around and isn't Mr Netflix herself, personally handing out the documents
I was shocked they didn't know. The fact that it was Trixies house that had custom wall paper (and was this the same house she did on H&Gtv? Wouldn't they need clearance?) All I kmow is when we used 900 vintage ties on the don cherry mini series, we had to get legal clearance for every single tie. (Contacted designers & clothing companies. It took weeks)
@C@Costumerchxhe RUclipsr in the clip before their’s also came out with a video covering this doc. She expressed how she’s pretty pissed that they used her clip without permission or compensation, esp bc of what op said! All those clips of tiktoks and yt videos pretty much violate copyright law. It’s honestly so gross that Netflix did that and the original creators don’t approve of their clips being used without permission.
Mind you they're also using clips out of context which can affect the livelihood of the makers in question
I can’t imagine showing your portfolio from this show…”here’s me as an elephant…here’s me in blackface” like these photoshoots were so odd.
appreciate Katya calling out the gaslighting in the documentary
Seriously - Trixie was obvy making it a little more light hearted to keep the energy up, but damn I’d be lying if I said I didn’t have the same reaction as Katya did actually watching it. Genuine disgust for how manipulative ANTM production was
really thought it was the 90's, seems so dated
Katya was just sitting shocked for so much of it.
Oh, you weren't entertained by the avoidance of legal liability lol? I couldn't even finish it tbh.
-¿who the f**k Is that?
-Rita Ora
😭😭😭
“I’m not part of production”
*listed as executive producer and creator of the show*
You must not know how TV/film work. She was literally just the face. Her idea, then the network took it and ran. They shipped it to every network, and for every “no” they had to change things, compromise, etc making it less and less like her original brain child.
She probably didnt see many final cuts.
@nmcinern12the problem is that Tyra made a big point of 'her' show being run differently, and that she was involved in every step. Whether she was or not, she can't have it be both ways
@nmcinern12 You ust not know what an Executive Producer is
@Youlousheducate me 🤔
like whyyyy did she keep using that as an excuse 😭
Trixie’s right about people forgetting that Drag Race was originally a lot more of an ANTM and Runway spoof- there was a bigger focus on fashion related challenges (though they still do a few) and there was that little gag when they’d sit for their interviews with Ru towards the finale where they’d be offered food and take a single Tic Tac as a joke to how little the people on the other shows eat 💀
OMG I had totally forgotten about the tic tacs!!! 😂
Tyra thinking this doc is a launching pad for her new career is psychotic.
THIS IS THE CRAZY PARTTTTTTTTTTT
@krznstkI'm sober and Tyra legit made me feel high af 😂😂😂
@RachelMaryStarfishi want to know what she's consuming during this documentary filming😂
@krznstkand that tight ass titty trenchcoat doesn't help😂
I think she is a sociopath. She literally never sees anything she does as wrong.
Katya being our unproblematic fave. 'You should not be ashamed of working at Walgreens!' Goddamit, we made the right person famous for once.
such a performative comment
@gpk131 or you’re just forcing your nihilist world view on everyone else…
@rektenuous1599 me calling this comment performative is literally not the definition of nihilist btw lmao calm down.
@gpk131 no but you're being a miserable nihilistic bitch and you always will be
Just in relation to this thread:
I love Katya too, but I don't think even she would be up in arms about this type of comment either, or the fact that anyone truly "unproblematic" would even agree. It *is* performative to an extent but on the part of fans who seem to enjoy putting people up on a pedestal for simply being compassionate. It's not nihilistic, it's not that worthy of praise because we should be expecting that from every person who has influence. Her having good values does make us love her more, of course. Just my own thinkpiece, as Trixie also encourages by the end.
38:58 Trixie jokes about Katya having one foot in the grave and how they only hang out when they are on camera, but this moment was a window into how much they each really mean to each other. People talk about Trixie as though she’s sometimes cold or a bit selfish, but that bitch would genuinely take care of Katya in any situation. I’m confident that she would give her sponge baths and change her diapers if Katya ever got seriously sick. Their bond goes beyond any kind of romantic love cuz it’s the kind of love that keeps someone in your life through anything and everything
I watched moving parts and that doc showed me how real their friendship is. That time was rough for their fans and especially for Trixie. Trixie held it together for both her and Katya even when she's aching and even when Katya isn't being kind to Trixie and herself (there was a part about Katya lashing out at Trixie when he relapsed). Trixie kept the boat afloat for them both, so when Katya was ready and healthy enough to come back she'd still have a career waiting for her. She's a ride or die for Katya. I forgot where she said this but Trixie mentioned something about Katya being like a platonic husband for her. There's always love there and they'll always be there for each other.
Katya saying, "I was just following orders." is impeccable truth. Nigel and Mr. Jay trying to play all innocent now, but they were certainly part of the problem.
They were all absolutely a part of the problem and are all trying to pretend their innocent 🤮 They could have totally taken accountability for this and spun it a better way but they will never do it. Janice Dickinson was also grotesque. It's making me mad, they're delusional. Even for the time. I don't care. Tyra's gross.
lol it’s so dramatically not comparable.
@wakememckinney7126are you saying that they AREN'T part of the problem??? Because they absolutely were
It so dramatically is. They all participated. Nobody held a gun to their head and forced them. The entire cast AND production team are responsible, using Tyra as a scapegoat doesn’t absolve them even if she IS terrible.
@wakememckinney7126 It may be a different intensity but that type of thinking does lead to the same _type_ of outcomes. Obviously the original quote is about one of the most extreme events in human history but there’s a reason people invoke it for all sorts of other things.
Trixie turning to Katya and saying "you can never die" made me burst into tears. Wow I wasn't expecting that
Same bestie, currently sobbing wtf
I'M BAWLING BECAUSE OF THAT! THAT GUT-PUNCHED MY SOUL! ❤ 😢 ❤
Trixie saying that all choked up as well 😭
literally still crying because of this
IM UNWELL 😭😭😭
I miss the pink and red set so bad
this set is rotten 😢 it doesn’t suit them at all and the couch looks so uncomfortable!!
@bigssmoke2005 totally, who is running ts the vibe is so sterile and non - existent
Same! It was such a nice set. This one is ugly.
Same 😭
BRING IT BACK!
The way Katya’s mood SHIFTS.
Shi#*?😵💫🤭🙌
“FAIR USE? 🤨That’s my goddamn HOUSE😐” BYEEEEEEEE
So icky of them to say that was fair use.
@user-kh8kz4ck3zseriously!
@user-kh8kz4ck3z Especially galling coming from copyright strikers supreme Netflix
@user-kh8kz4ck3zI was thinking that too!!!!! like Netflix notoriously strikes even so much as the MENTION of a clip from one of their shows being used in a yt video but they don’t fear being striked in return? Grossssss
@user-kh8kz4ck3zI think legally they wouldn't have a case as it is technically fair use so while morally a bit icky, not much can be done
"I'm perfect btw, never lashed out at anyone" Katya 😂😂😂😂😂
Katya ACTUALLY has self-awareness, unlike Tyra with her "calling me out on my bullshit" nonsense
shandi needs to sue EVERYONE. it was a crime period. tyra is disgusting for forcing her to watch it
There's a reason why she isn't suing and a reason why this situation didn't get bigger with more people talking about it. Go watch the episode.
@mcmandy086 how about you just enlighten us instead?
@nataliemarie9775 possibly she got money for her silence?
@mcmandy086 what do you mean? I have seen the ep, I don't know what you're referring to
@nataliemarie9775 i agreee why don't they just share with the class !
them going from being excited in the beginning to like sighing and looking miserable halfway through is all of our experiences watching this doc lol
I never watched Top model so i genuinely didn’t expect for things to have been this shit
had a shit day at work and was so excited to get transported into what I assumed would be multigenerational fabulousness, only to have to do diaphragmatic, somatic and pragmatic breath work through all 42 minutes and 31 seconds of this.
the exploitation and pure evilness of creating misery in these young women AND filming it AND yelling at them for having human reactions.. it's insane how diabolical the show and Tyra are.
And the worst part is that all this talk of "Oh, the fashion industry has changed" is a lie. Nothing has changed, you can see it in the latest runways where all the models are rail-thin and clearly on Ozempic to their eyeballs!
and the abusive and exploitative nature of reality tv has also not changed, which i guess netflix can't acknowledge because they are part of it
Trixie and Katya clocking their footage being used by a Netflix doc without being contacted while producing content for a Netflix youtube channel
Truly cosmic
Now that's meta lmao 4th wall never existed with them to be fair
Im so glad i pirate my Netflix content 😘
and then included them calling it out in this episode?? lmao
My theory is that it’s inclusion in this video is Netflix’s version of saying “and what are you gonna do about it? It’s legal.” And if that IS the case then EWWW
the fact that katya had to hold up her phone to show us the photos and they didn't even show one in the editing??? girl... why is netflix so weirdddd
They really are. Plus them not informing them or better yet, asking permission to use clips of them in the doc.
They don’t care about them, it’s a profit making company they don’t give a shit about trixie or katya personally. It’s disgusting behaviour but that’s capitalism for you
I thought the same thing !! @cocoandgreg would never!
I THOUGHT THAT TOO !!! why the hell couldnt they put the pic up in editing... feels purposeful / shady
@MoreWaterThanBlood I kept waiting for them to do that… and then they didn’t. This entire episode felt so weird…
12:32 oh come on the editors couldn't bring up the pic of katya on her phone? Or at least zoom in
seriously tho
+
Watching Tyra lack awareness to the point where she participates in her own hit-peice is kind of amazing 😂
Love to see it
Truuuly diabolical
We need more of it honestly
I support women’s rights and wrongs
Just to promote a new cycle. This was a promo documentary for her.
omg i can’t believe they filmed her being raped and then said she cheated that’s genuinely disgusting
Then made her watch it on a talk show then replayed it when she looked away during it…..put Tyra in jail
Oh no, not only that. They included several clips of her on the phone arguing with her boyfriend from the beginning because he went out with another girl and that caused tension meaning they intentionally created her storyline to be “the girl who cheated to get back at her boyfriend”, which would’ve been bad enough as it is but then they also made sure to make her blackout drunk to hopefully get the most dramatic crecendo possible for their edit. They wanted the evil edit so bad they were willing to put her in harms way to get it. They planned the whole thing, taking advantage of a young woman who had no way of understanding how reality tv bs works. Even when the other girl did and called it out when she was inappropriately touched they chose to frame it as her being “difficult”. They didn’t give a fuck about those girls and they should face the consequences of it
@mylittlepeonies8693 That is just appalling. I'm glad I never watched that show.
not only that but a whole camera crew being there and not even try stopping it makes them complicit in the crime
I'm appalled that they SHOWED IT AGAIN for the doc???
I WAS FINE UNTIL I SAW KATYA CRYING 🥺🥺. And that “you can never die” from Trixie killed me 😭😭😭😭
I have never seen Katya that serious, she looked so uncomfortable. ANTM is truly a double edged sword.
i think her old periscopes are still on youtube, pretty hard watches but Katya comes here from a very understanding place
@lauram5905 why are they hard watches?
@antonygoon9694she was high in all of them
@antonygoon9694she used to go very in detail of her troubled history before drag race, lotta educational stuff and stuff that resonates, i dont think that she likes that they're still out there though
@lauram5905
"i dont think that she likes that they're still out there though" -
so why mention them..
"Think about Egypt... The people, what they've been through."
Tyra is WILD. 💀🤦🏻♀️🤣
I wish the model would have said "oh! I don't know much about Egyptian history, what have they been through?" And just watch Tyra flounder. Just kidding, they would never have aired that.
yes, Tyra thinking about the time Egypt was part of the Ottoman Empire or whatever is really gonna help me model better.
@abombt7499girl would just start stories from the Bible and think she ate 😂
@jgarofalo8813 no, Tyra would start talking about when she was a young model in Paris lmao
Mr. Jay said something that level during the addiction photoshoot, like "think about Gia Carangi" ☠️
18:28 RIP Chi Chi DeVayne 😔💔
I feel like all the models should get together and file a class action lawsuit. especially Shandi, its downright evil what they did to her.
And for Tyra to invite her in her talk show and traumatize her again and made her responsible for being SA’d while her mother was in the audience! How can anyone defend Tyra’s actions?
Guarantee they signed an arbitration agreement or something of the sort
Oh, I would love that!!!
The fact that someone can get assaulted on camera and was called "a cheater"... Tyra should be ashamed to perpetuate this kind of abuse onto other women.
oh my god yes. unite and sue that heffer!!
the nervous "I think its fair use" folded me lmao
LOVE Jennifer!
@lemonmart7793no
It’s funny the only time we see Raja in the documentary is when she’s putting someone in blackface lol
Omg I didn't even notice 😂
💀
THIS IS WHAT THE FANS WANNA SEE!!
THE PFP GIRL😭😭😭😭😭
Absolutely!!
Natalie nunnnn
YESSSS
Next episode: Trixie and Katya fight Bob Netflick for using their clip
What bothers me is that no one is calling what happened to shandi as what it is which is r*pe- she could not give consent. They filmed a crime and showed it to millions
Exactly!! I watched this doc while i was on the treadmill and i was in tears watching shandi go through that. It’s really sad
100% agree but you don’t need to censor the word rape
And didn’t step in to help her whatsoever
@veilche People often censor it because certain words are flagged for "offensive language" etc. on social mediat, so often when you see people censoring it is because they don't want their comment removed. Usually they aren't trying to take away from the seriousness of the crime. But also consider that many survivors prefer not to see the word, so it is respectful to many of them in the end as well. Try not to let it bother you. :)
and tyra having shandi on the tyra show and trying to show her the tape??? absolutely insane. and bringing up that her long term boyfriend broke up with her over it. that entire thing was so fucked up. i remember seeing that as a young teen and thinking she just cheated. seeing it as an adult? horrifying.
I truly appreciate Trixie for being light but articulate about what happened in that hellhole as Katya was understandably upset.
The moment at 38:56 where Trixie says to Katya that she can never die KILLED me. Bawling
Instant tears...and what was said about someone so fabulous losing it and realizing it can happen to anyone, ugh
You can also just hear the hatred in Katya's voice when she speaks about Tyra. This episode just brought a whole lot of realness that I was just not expecting.
@amandaeskew415yeah honestly the whole episode was so real and sad
immediately started crying
made my heart dropp
I have NEVER seen the girls so distraught about anything before. And that includes all the Vanessa Hudgens films they've been subjected to.
💀💀
gurl, I-
Which were fiction btw!!!!!!
Idk girl Katya seemed extremely upset during Baby Reindeer
Shandi, vevé. Mi mamá lleva casi 30 años trabajando en Walgreens aquí en P.R. Con ese trabajo me crió y a mi hermano. Que no te de vergüenza, es un trabajo honesto. No le hiciste daño a nadie como Tyra lo hizo con ustedes.
22:29 “what’s next gender swap!” “ I feel like that would be more tasteful” is the FUNNIEST thing to say in full drag
They did this in the show! I remember a shoot where they portrayed a famous couple and Tocarra was Beyonce and jay z! If I remember correctly they told her that she looked better as Jay
@samanthaleo2590LOLLLL
They literally had a challenge that put the girls in boy drag. Raven was even one of the drag queens who were part of that shoot
@samanthaleo2590close, it wasn't Toccara (who was in cycle 3). It was in Cycle 7, and it was Eugena as Bey and Jay (it was a celebrity couple photoshoot; the girl who had just recently started questioning her sexuality, Michelle, was assigned Ellen and Portia because of course she was).
@HeinousVolcanusyes you’re right! They did the two different personalities with tocarra! My bad. I knew they did it to someone
I know “whatdya think about her” is gonna go triple platinum on the pod but “think about Egypt” is destroying me
and think about what they’ve been through!
At the end I so desperately wanted one of them to say “think about models… think about what they’ve been through”
I want to go to Egypt next summer because I’m an umbraphile (obsessed with solar eclipses) and literally all I can do now is think about Egypt.
@simplicitylostooh, Abu Simbel has a Stonehenge-type trick built in where the sun hits the holy of holies in the back of the temple on a specific day or two, if you also like more general-astronomy stuff.
@FurikoMaru Ooh! Interesting! I’ll have to investigate that. It’s unlikely that date will be the same as when the eclipse is (August 2, 2027). This one is going to be the longest one for a while. Most total eclipses are between 1 and 3 minutes, but this one will be over 6 minutes in Egypt (longest will be near Luxor). The eclipse is mostly passing over North Africa (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Saudi Arabia) but it will also be in the very, very south of Spain for those who don’t want to go to Africa. Totality will only be 4 minutes there, but still, it will be longer than the usual eclipse.
By the way, a total solar eclipse _will_ eventually pass over Stonehenge, though not until 2974, but I still think it’s cool that we know it definitely will happen eventually.
The irony of Trixie saying "I thought today we were all going to laugh about how fun all this was", and that sentiment being the point of this documentary is..... not lost on me.
The plight of just being a woman will forever be over looked and swept away until we speak LOUDLY about it. We are (sadly) lucky that only some listen when we yell.
Thank you Trixie and Katya for listening.
I remember Tyra fully gaslighting a dark-skinned black woman who was trying to explain that life is way more difficult & different for her than for a lighter skinned black woman
Tyra is one of those people who can only ever seen herself as the victim and can only pretend to comprehend other’s pain
I love how Trixie tries to keep it light, when she can tell Katya is genuinely upset. Great work girls 💖
Trixie's take away: who made the trailer for this documentary????
I don’t know… Katya has a legitimate reason to be upset, and it’s not really something to “keep light”
@lc1371 Sure, but it's the job. I appreciate Miss Trixie pulling the cart on this one, it's obvious Katya couldn't fake it. And she's right not to.
@S@SwamehI feel the same as you. I get that sometimes you have to kind of “play the game” or whatever, for work. I don’t think poorly of Trixie. I do feel exactly like Katya.
I love how Trixie stands up for all the millionaires she hopes to network with.
Look at how quick Tyra and the gang are to take praise for the good parts of ANTM and then how they’re acting stupid and confused when smth they need to take accountability for is brought up.
exactly.
36:26 I was crying right alongside Katya here. It’s easy to laugh about the craziness but it’s so horrific to see an assault survivor be forced to relive her assault over and over again for the sake of ‘entertainment’. As a rape survivor myself I sincerely hope Shandi has gotten support. Tyra, Ken, and all the showrunners can fucking choke.
Yes - this is why we LOVE her.
Me too
I had no idea this happened. Evil .
I cant ever watch ANTM again
THANK YOU!
that's the darkest part of the whole thing for me. and then framing it as cheating was just so...diabolical
THEY INCLUDED A CLIP OF THE BALD AND THE BEAUTIFUL WITHOUT PAYING THEM??!! LMAO
its called fair use, just like how every creator can react to someone else's video without paying them
i would actually be so mad if i was them, fair use or not😭
@fromdecay that's theoretically true, but in reality corporations strike and remove and steal reactor's pay all the time 🤣 fair use only works if you have the money to pay high powered lawyers to fight the largest corporations in the world, aka impossible.
Bob Netflick! How dare! Lol
@PixieLovesItAll apparently it's illegal for them to do so but youtube isn't going to take the creators side
39:37 Katya saying what all of us though about Tyra after this Documentary 😂
Katya casually forgetting that not only was she on Top Model but she also won the challenge😂
That's what I thought 😂😂😂
Our goldfish brained queen
nothing emotionally prepared me for trixie turning around in tears and saying "you can never die" to katya
Right!!
Katya being quiet because she was so upset. Is so real. Because same sis. That was me watching this doc. I still believe Tyra and the entire production team should be hold accountable for their abuse
Katya looks like a medium who is going to lie to me and im going to believe it
Katya Kaputo❤
This is so accurate 😂😂😂😂
I will gladly cross her palm with silver.
She looks like Jareth, King of The Goblins.
@eduardomedina12345😂😂😂
I was a teenager during this time and remember how normalized all of this was. The misogyny, body shaming, rape culture, homophobia, racism... and then the emergence of the industry that fed on all of it. There's a reason we considered reality tv trash, because it fucking is
Clock it. People don’t realise how lucky they are to be born in a more “woke” generation.
❤🩹❤
Well and you can’t blame yourself. The show was very edited and produced to make you believe it and Tyra and all those other people running the show had a lot of credibility back then so you took it at face value. They essentially gaslit the models and viewers to normalize the behavior and actions that were done to the contestants. Don’t’ blame yourself, blame the producers of this show and the network executives that allowed it.
I started watching this series before I even hit my teen years. It was my introduction to black face and for a while I thought it was a good thing since this show framed it in a positive light. Thank GOD I never did anything with that belief and I learned in middle school how fucked it was
I remember watching Top Model (and other reality tv) as a kid/teen back then, and there being all these moments that made me so uncomfortable. At some points I used to think "this feels wrong, why is this allowed?" but everyone acted like it was normal, the adults of that generation didn't seem to have a problem with it so nothing was ever done. I especially remember when they used to have all those 'troubled teen' documentaries where they were kidnapped and basically tortured in camps, or the ones where they'd bring on someone with an eating disorder and make them strip to their underwear and insult and humiliate them. I would get SO angry watching those I'd be shaking, but everyone just acted like it was normal.
I think there’s a lot to be said that the most horrific things on this show are the things a lot of people don’t remember. Like that’s what the culture was at that time, that’s what life was like at that time that the r*pe (censored cuz social media is weird) and the drug/bulimic photo shoot and stuff like that are things we don’t even remember. Cuz it wasn’t that shocking at that time. And this was only 25 years ago, things have changed SO much, thank god.
can we all collectively agree that if Top Model makes a return that we will not be tuning in?
I pray it won’t have hate watchers
Yes plz, the anger I felt at Tyra announcing the new cycle was intense. It cemented for me that her remorse was not genuine and she’s only doing this to promote the new season. And this is coming from someone who was watching cycles 3-10 live on tv.
The problem is yall favourite commentary creators will be all "i watched the new season of top model sO yoU DoNt have tO🤪" and yall would eat it up
This was one of the most emotional episodes of queens love to watch. The love you show for each other, the queer community, and women is so evident. It’s so important to cry over things that are terrible. Them showing Shanis SA over and over again and making it her fault. Truly horrifying.
When that came out, portraying on TV that it was Shani's fault when they set up the situation, filmed these young women drunk, in a condition where consent wasn't possible, then monetized her horror and heartbreak...it's just sickening, and it really sent a horrible message to their viewers. So exploitative. She was curled up, wrecked. And the camera crew told Shani "sorry we had to film that"...did you really have to, or could you have done anything else? She must have felt so horrible. I couldn't have gotten past it.
Katya looked really disturbed. I appreciate that she understood and truly cared. Tyra should be ashamed.
Disgusting
@andromedaspark2241I can’t believe they taped it. Other reality shows like Intervention have stopped if subjects are in danger, Real World stopped Ruthie from driving and so many other instances. If she drank two bottles of wine, they didn’t give them much food while also being that thin they had to know it was too much and should have stepped in knowing she couldn’t consent and I have never heard of any reality show taping sexual acts. Not The Real World, not Jersey Shore or any of them.
@jgarofalo8813 then to tape and broadcast her conversation with her boyfriend! They were malicious. That was maximum humiliation and pain, every thing they did. And young people, girls in particular, got a totally messed up lesson about consent. How many people who were later assaulted while incapacitated blamed themselves after internalizing that message? I know I didn't understand that someone taking advantage while very drunk is assault.
“It’s so important to cry over things that are terrible.” Wow I really needed to hear this. We become so numb.
The thing about Tiffany is… production KNEW she had difficulty reading. That makes EVERYTHING about the entire situation SO MUCH WORSE.
the way tyra talks in her interviews is so like rehearsed and dramatic and detatched from reality
She talks like a politician or tv preacher.
The girls were not prepared to keep it light and jokey this time. And i respect that. They were pissed. They were upset. And im glad they didnt just joke through it. Which i wouldnt expect them to joke about things like sa anyway
Trixie attempted to, and it was tasteless.
Trixie is a much more business involved person, maybe she felt like she had to keep up a persona
@Ashleighchubbybunny ^ That part.
@Ashleighchubbybunny yes ive noticed this as well in past episodes especially on the pod too, and its very frustrating to me and makes me not want to watch trixie.
@Ashleighchubbybunnyit wasn’t tasteless, it’s how people choose to deal with uncomfortable situations and it’s her job. Get your head out of your ass and off your high horse.
When Tyra apologised to one of the contestants, and called her Booboo while doing it, was a total slap in the face. When I watched this doco I was instantly enraged and felt sick for those girls ♥️
I really understood the emotion they both felt over Miss Jay. Queer people who are unapologetically themselves are so important and inspiring and it truly broke my heart to see Miss Jay like that. Prayers for them and their future health
Dude is a misogynist ghoul.
Absolutely. I often think about how I grew up seeing characters like Angel in rent or people like Miss Jay or Isis on tv and to me it was always just normal. Just another person in the world who happens to express themselves differently from most people in my real life. If I hadn’t grown up with exposure to those personalities and expressions, it’s possible I might’ve been biased against queer culture, just by virtue of not being exposed to it and seeing it as “other.” Having queer representation in media is SO important, even for people like me (white, cis, straight), because we desperately need to see diversity as a normal and essential piece of our communities.
@Lau3464l That's like saying that the serial killer from Silence of the Lambs was amazing queer representation. If Miss Jay meant a lot to you.... oh honey, there were plenty of other shows and books that could've given you actual life. The whole doc was about how superficial, exploitative and repugnant these people were. They publicly humiliated and traumatised women for money. Did you even watch what we all watched? lol
@bradp8787 right ? i recognize the work miss jay has done outside of antm & how iconic their legacy is but it doesn't erase the fact that she was also complicit in the abuse of these young women . i wish them well with their health, strokes are no joke, but never will i look up to them for the part he played in mistreating young women on tv .
her, nigel & mr. j spent the entire docuseries deflecting blame onto tyra without really owning up to the negative impact they all had a hand in during their time on the show . maybe i'd feel differently if they actually took proper accountability instead of hiding behind the bigger evil (tyra & higher up production staff)
@bradp8787 the documentary is just a clean image for everyone and just blame it on tyra. Sure, she was bad, the rest were no better. They just like to pretend that they were force to do it by tyra.
Outside the antm miss jay, maybe a sweet and dear person that did alot of things. But in the show, he was nasty, cruel and bad like tyra and the rest of them.
"She talks like Chi Chi 💔" dang y'all got me emotional 🥲
36:36 seeing Katya cry multiple times has me feeling some kind of way… it hurts
Trixie saying "you can never die" to Katya was instant tears. Love these two biological women so much
36:16 “you shouldn’t be ashamed to work at Walgreens!” ❤ -KATYA
As long as you aren’t stealing money from innocent people, you shouldn’t ever be ashamed of your job.
I’ve been a waitress and bartender for five years. I’m proud to support myself honestly.
Me watching this on my break at Walgreens lol
That was my favorite line go Katya!!!
39:15 trixie turning to katya and saying, you can never die. Is so real to me. I hope you both never die ladies. We love you wayyy too much❤ stay safe ladies
Katya being fed up for most of this is absolutely felt
The utter callousness of Production to be approached by a young person in tears as they confess to feeling violated and unsafe at a worksite that YOU created, and interpret them as being difficult and whiny. That is inhumane.
I can remember them doing that to Shandi, Adrienne, Keenya, Kayla and probably more.
That's the industry. I worked on a production recently, in an insanely hostile work environment. Telling my union and HR got me retaliated against and lost my job, and i was left swinging in the wind, with zero accountability for the multiple abusers. (Narcissist with flying monkeys). I even had many co workers offering to corroborate my complaints and nothing was done. No one was contacted. Unfortunately we haven't REALLY come all that far.
@CostumerchxI’m sorry that happened to you. That was extremely unfair and twisted.
@32:56 "Wow, she's a monster".
100% AGREE KATYA!!!!
I think this whole show is a really good lesson on how in a society that is intrinsically misogynistic, even those who don't have power or are perceived as "safe" to women (other women, gay men) can end up upholding misogynistic standards and harming women. It's a hard lesson to learn. My own sexual assault made me realize that I couldn't immediately trust other women to look out for my safety or mental health. Shandi's story is not a fluke, there are many women with stories like hers.
Did you know that pancakes are misogynistic?
In some ways, those who stand there and do nothing are as bad as the attacker
@YightLagami-zt4mv did you know you are a loser? Aw... you do...sorry hun
I’m so sorry you went through that. And my heart breaks for Shandi. That was horrific to watch, cannot imagine living through it and then repeatedly exposed to the trauma of SA through airings of the show and this doc. 1000% agreed: internalized misogyny by other women continues to traumatize and harm. Until women truly support each other and stand up to misogyny, the cycle of abuse will continue. Sending you healing wishes on your journey . . .
21:49 "something about violence to women, you know, it's too real... women get killed by men every day" Thank you for saying this
I was literally saying THANK YOU TRIXIE in that part! Bc it´s too real 💔
So annoyed how tyra never got what the problem was like shes just ignores that she was a problem
"It raises a lot of concerns around exploitation" says the documentary moments before we learn that they did not ask a single creators permission for any clip
Funniest part is that that very clip is taken from a youtube video they did not ask permission to use EITHER!!!!! It's by Elle Literacy, highly recommend it!
Trixie and Katya crying for some of the things these girls went through makes me love them even more. and then telling each other they better not die first 😭so sweet
15:20 Wearing a trench coat to an exposé interview… choices.
2:25 i am actually so so so happy they’re saying this cuz no one granted permission from the social media clips.
I don't think legally they have to ask tbh. Doesn't matter if people think they should ask, I don't think they have to even if they should
@101spacemonkeyit's such a blatant double standard. Reactors getting their channel blocked because copyright strikes. AI algorithms can give you a strike for a video you've never even released and you cannot contest it because you're small fry. But big name companies want to use your material? ✅ What's legal is what's spoken up for by money.
The whole "yOU woUlDn'T StEaL a cAR" ad stole its music, stole its font. When a company (something that should be *more* accountable than an individual) steals, it's fair use. When you do fair use, it's stealing. They were suing people how much for downloading a Britney song or Metallica song? Wasn't the figure more money than the entire world GDP at that point?? But oh, our AI black hole, in goes your content. Do you have no rights 👏 rights are for companies 👏👏 not people 👏 lol I'm surprised maga States hasn't changed the term human rights to companies' manifest destiny rights
i mean... if you talk abt a show, you're using their hype for your own benefit. I think it's only fair if said show uses the content in which you specifically talk
about it and it's no shade, but if you look at the bigger picture, it's a bit silly
@101spacemonkeyThey don't. It's actually considered fair use. If the content used was owned by a network or streaming service they would have to ask but the content they used is from RUclips and a whole different set of rules apply to RUclips content because you voluntarily upload RUclips content.
@e@explodingplant2 Very that
LOVE Katya calling out what a literal monster Tyra is. The shit that was pulled on ANTM is irredeemably vile.
39:05 This is how I feel about Tim Curry. That Man is epic.
Someone please leave katya in a room alone with tyra . No cameras. Total immunity 👏👏👏
13:40 "it's a little difficult for me to talk about production because that's not my territory" with Executive Producer sitting underneath her name 😭☝️🙃
katya simply STONE COLD FUMING after shandi and just not f* having it for the rest of it is honestly heartwarming. Like THANK YOU that is the correct response
Netflix didn't ask permission from ANY content creators to use clips for this documentary. I follow Luxeria and she was unexpectedly thrown off to see herself in it when she was doing a review watch for her channel. Netflix.. do betterrrrrrr. At least give the heads up.
Same! I follow Luxeria too. And they took her clips OUT OF CONTEXT
I follow Courtreezy and she too didn't get asked or noticed that she would be included...bunch of weirdos
I was looking for fellow friends of the wig queen
Ooh hello wigs!
Come along girlie wigs🧏🏼♀️
katya is NOT having it, i love and respect her so much
Thank you for saying “women ARE KILLED BY MEN everyday,” rather than just “women are killed everyday.”
Trixies hair looks like a majestic pony
It really does. 😂
Thank you! After an emotional 42 mins, this just brought me back to my first thought starting the video - gorgeous hair 🥰🐎
*I can literally feel Katya’s disturbance & disappointment rising as the documentary goes on. I love her realness because same.* 🤦🏾♂️
i wouldn't even say disappointment, she looked appalled and murderous (correctly so)
31:52 has been a vocal stim for 2 weeks now 💀
Came back just say this
Katya is not having it and that's the reaction that we need. Take notes Monét
I would like to have the tea please
May I know the tea please ? Thank you in advance
Hi, I'd like to order The Tea, please
What did Monet do?!
@moonrivr essentially her and Bob said Tyra took accountability for her actions in ANTM