In this video I purchase 2 CNC Machines for $350 apiece that are headed to the scrap yard. Will they run? Lets find out! Skull caps www.prestigema... DNC box amzn.to/3H6XZNB
I’ve worked on these machines for the past 30 years, have access to all of the control and machine manuals. Would be happy to help you figure out the issues.
I have some manuals with parameters also but for Matsuura 710V, my machine does not zero out on any axis and spindle wont turn on,does it have to be all zeroed for the spindle to run?? maybe i have to service its encoders so it can home the axis..
@@sameworks I don't know this machine, but I'm guessing your spindle won't turn on until you have the axis zero'd out. That is likely a safety thing. Of course it all depends upon the machine designer, but I've seen this behavior before and it does make sense; as such, I'd push that problem down the stack until you get the zeroing figured out. With that in mind, it is also statistically improbably that *all* of your encoders have an issue with them (addressing your comment about NO axis will zero). A much more likely cause is user error (frankly, probably that is probably the most likely) or a parameter issue. I. don't know if Matsura uses/used a generic control, but if they did then you should understand that many controls are darned near incapable of doing anything without the proper parameters. It is like a person with a brain but a damaged spinal cord--the brain works but it cannot control the appendages. Many home sequences work by hitting a limit switch and then moving back to an encoder index pulse. But that limit switch is likely going to a generic INPUT pin on the CNC control. It is the parameters (and PLC) that define the actual function of the input. Anyhow, hope this helps a bit... Manuals are crucial... try to snag a set.
The company I work for has a nearly identical MC-760VX and we formerly had a very similar MC-760V which also had a 4th axis. I'm very familiar with these machines mechanically, electrically, and programming wise. You should be able to load programs with a modern PC with a serial port. Get your COM settings to match and have a high quality serial adapter. If you have any specific questions, feel free to reach out and I'll do what I can to assist. The 760VX is definitely the newer/better machine. You can probably retrofit the 4th from the 760V to it if you want.
Honestly i would primarily look at the enclosed unit. Controls are more familiar to you. But if it was me I would just keep both and make them my primary units that I would use. Might not need the 4th axis now but could start getting into that.
I hope you can get them going, I hate seeing things just get junked. Your level of confidence is amazing to just dive in, every time I do something wrong on a computer I have to get my wife to fix it and she says why did you do that? The price was crazy. My 50 yr old Bridgeport is worth way more than that and couldn't do anything compared to those machines. Really enjoying your videos!
If it was up to me, i would keep both. Figure out which one is the more useful for right now, keep the others in storage until you needed it or grow your business where you will need it.
1:18 That's awesome that you taught yourself CNC on a Matsuura! Great videos! Love how you go through each step and explain things! Keeps it interesting for the ones who don't know! I need to see if my machine has a RS232 port for drip feed. Awesome deal on those 2 machines!
My Matsuura MC 710V does not home any of the axis,and spindle wont turn on as well,i have all the parameters installed though. Does anybody know if i have to home the machine in all axis in order to run the spindle? i always get 3.25.05 sequence error if i just go ahead and do M03 S200 for example. Are any encoders for sale?
What a steal! I, as a hobbiest, would go all in on converting it to linux-cnc, probably making it worse than it is right now. Drip-feed looks like a cool option, tho. And I would keep both. I'd never sell one of those, knowing I got it for $350 - there's no cost to recoup - and those machines would make plenty of money if you put them to work.
You know... I've been there and done that. There are positives and negatives associated with a conversion. First, they take a LONG time, especially on a fairly complex machine like the Matsura. The tool changer could give you a ton of headache. I spent way too long converting a simple machine and just before I finished, someone gave me a very nice Dyna DM4400m which was far nicer than the converted machine. I pulled all the materials off so I've got them if I need them but I don't know if I'll use the stuff. The reality is that the Mitsubishi control may be old, but it works. The "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" comes into play here. The wiring is excellent, the capabilities are excellent, etc, etc. And.... the tool changer works. So, what do I really get with a LinuxCNC? Frankly, at the end of the day, I realized I got less than what I had if I just drip fed to the machine. I'm definitely not saying you are wrong. Every situation is different. But, in my case, I think I've made the right decision to hold off on any conversion.
@@Alan-gz1kx Nah, that's exactly what I was thinking. Sure - it wouldd be cool to retrofit the whole machine with a LinuxCNC frontend/backend - But drip-feed just works. And if this machine could do more, than the limits, I'm pretty sure, they enable it. This is a a perfectly good machine with a simple serial interface - it's like a 4000 pound 3D-Printer.
Those old school matsura's are legendary, the rapids aren't insane but they can take serious cuts and hold tight tolerances while doing it. I had the chance to get an old Mazak fully tooled with CAT50 a couple years ago and a Mazak horizontal machining center fully tooled for free. Sadly I was 17 at the time still working out of my mom's 1 car garage so I didn't have room for them. They were in similar condition to your matsura's
Keep looking! The cold hard reality is that there are a lot of older machines out there that are not being used. Eventually the owners, who have already depreciated the machines to zero and are using new equipment, realize that they want the space. They've already made their money off the machines, but they try to sell them, often without success because the machines are not commercially viable. The astute home guy can sometimes make a deal of "I'll get a rigger to remove the machine and you won't have to dispose of the headache." In other words... you get it for free. I ended up with a machine that way (although it was the owner that approached me after he couldn't sell it). The guy even gave me all the tooling, manuals, PLUS a rotary axis (kind. of like you, Prestige). It was a stellar setup. The key is to *always* be polite and friendly. If you are a PITA, that won't get you anywhere because they'll just find someone willing to junk the machine just because you were difficult. But wait your time and you may very well come across something for free/cheap. The hardest part about this, however, is the "how long will it take." The reality is, it might take 1 week or it could be two years...
For the Problem with the Tool changer, i would Check the Break of the Tool change Motor or the relay, it Looks Like it changes the Tool and changes it again. So i think ist overrunning its stop Position. Best regards Flo
I run a 760 everyday, good machines, owned it for 30 years. The old Yaz controls are slow, hard to get parts for , have no support from yaskawa and the 626 mk2 spindle drives like to blow up. the phasing has nothing to do with the tool changer, they are hydraulic, both of the machines are the same, one has the full enclosure. You might wanna become friends with Satto... A Matsuura will show a Haas up for what it is. They are worth running and certainly worth a retrofit.
Keep both!!! You don't do any 4th axis work because why would you quote/take a job you're not equipped to run...? Right? BUT... now you can! The deal you got here, imo, it'd be foolish to squander the long term potential you have with these 2 machines. Also, Spindle start clockwise M03, counterclockwise M04, spindle stop command is M05.
RS232 (depending on the device) only needs 3 pins at minimum, so that machine probably uses RTS/CTS and some other features contained within the RS232 (now TIA-232) standard.
Wow! Incredible! How relevant are these machines today? Should I be looking for deals like this? I realize this is a RARE find but hot damn, I could afford to purchase, ship and buy tooling for this machine all at once! Lol
It amazes me how one can get fully working, really well maintained cnc machines like that. You would be able to start making a lot of money directly on those machines. I would expect that a machine like that would go closer to like what 4-5k atleast? Just shipping them would be way more than you payed for the machines.
As far as which one to keep, that depends on what you want to use them for. Both have Box ways which means they are meant for heavy side cut forces, but the accuracy suffers in the smaller part range. (Maybe less than .5 inch) This also means that there is a wear spot on all axis, might consider having them scraped if ya wanna get serious. The open bed one seems to take less maintenance (No spindle chiller and does not require air.) My guess is that the enclosed one is designed for machining plastic injection molds, super fine precision. The open bed is more a general purpose machine. In no way am I saying it is less of a machine. Any Matsuura of this vintage is known for HIGH QUALITY of manufacture. In closing, if what you manufacture fits in the open bed one keep it. If you are making injection mold tooling, keep the enclosed one.
You must know the right people , because there's no way in hell to get any machine for 350$ , most secondhand tools are at least 50 bucks a piece. There was a guy who had connections and knew exactly what's gonna happen and when , and even so he could only get 3 micron machines for 3000€ a pop . All three were in pretty banged up condition , not even extremly old , newer than theese machines . For a standard peasant such as myself it's impossible to put my hands on a halfway decent machine for less than 5000€ . The worn manual lathes from the 70's start around 2000€ , so yes ... i envy you :D .
You want to buy a Fadal 4020? I just bought it today but it’s too heavy for my home garage 😢. 10k pounds sitting on 3-4 inch foundation haha. I was so excited, ready to start my own shop .
Do you already have one or more CNC machines in your shop - possibly running on modern code? You stated that you never do 4th axis machining, which implies that you do not currently have that capability in your shop. To me, that would be an argument for keeping the 4-axis machine - if for no other reason to expand your skill set. The 4th axis could also simplify some jobs where you currently need to re-clamp the work piece or manually readjust a fixture. Do you already have a machine that has a chiller? If so, what else does that new machine have that is non-existent on your current tooling? Just because the connectors have been cut off does not make the cables useless. It is not that difficult to repin the connectors if you desire that control method.
You thief you got a hell of a deal. In 2003-07 I was a maintenance man in a factory and work on one of those machine it was a great machine kept in crappy condition but we had very little problems with it.We ran on RS232
@@Zeusspuppit depends on the machine but a lot of machines will alarm if the T number is on the same line as the M6. I had an Enshu that had a Fanuc 6M control that would do the same thing his is doing with the arm when I would put the T# and M6 on the same line. Once I figured out that it didn't like that I hardly had any problems with the toolchanger from that point on.
@@christopherzeiger9321 , I dont know about an Enshu with a 6m, I own two Matsurra 760's, same as above and they will absolutely pick up a tool with M6 and the tool number. Same yaznac control.
We actually had an MX2 control yasnac 760. Was a really bulletproof machine ran for decades even though we neglected the living crap out of it. We never figured out how to drip feed rs232. But I did write a program that ran on an old dos PC that access the parallel port in a pin by pin methods that allowed us to drip feed... It also had subprogram support... I'll check and see if I still have the source code. You will need a DOS computer with a parallel to run it.
rs232 only needs 3 wires. a twisted pair to communicate and a single wire for the handshake. should be pins 2,3, and 7 machine side 2,3 and 5 pc side. youll probably need to drip that old girl to do much with it using modern cam. if its lost the params no worries. real easy to get back into it. you enter all the comm's stuff by hand {8 bit binary} then push the other 200 pages through the rs232 connection. You will def want to get that working again! cheap and easy to do so. put a pcmcia db9 card in your pc. get a db9 to db25 cable. youll probably need a db25 to db25 jumper box as well, if you gotta move some pins around. easy peasy! the free software i use is called NCLink.
I had found your video and then found a surplus company with a robot which uses a tool cabinet unfortunately I am in an apartment. I think I will need to get with my nephew and start a lease and get my shop together.
Yasnac has way better canned cycles then fanuc ever inagined the Japanese always made their programs line by line they never used canned cycles that's why the Fanuc had user macro B I had a Mori Seki MV80 that was never meant to leave Japan it had no canned cycles at all😊 they offered to put some in it I said screw that leave it alone I learned to like it that way you can actually run faster by programming granular mostly because you only move exactly what you need or want it definitely forces you to clean up your programs.
Me and my dad just bought a 2000 haas vf3 to start up a shop that is in similar condition to the two you bought although we actually paid a decent sum of money for it
This really looks like a modernization project for the RUclipsr RotarySMP and LunoxCNC. The Mechanics are great, you just need a new controller. But you are right it is a great machine. Good luck with these machine.
Why don't you contact who you got them of see if they have a email for a employee that ran them 😮😮save you hrs if not days trying to sort them put them up cook a pig with some beers you're laughing 😂😂
What a STEAL!! I'm just a shmo but I def appreciates value, tech & restoration. And wow is this dude KNOWLEDGEABLE. Remembers complex stuff from decades ago.
350 US is an incredible price! But it's not the total price and not the running costs for the machine's operating materials. These machines are particularly valuable if someone uses them in all their functions. I have always been amazed by the smooth movements of the axes, spindles, tool changers and the interaction and can watch it for hours. As a little boy, I watched washing machines at work. I don't know why, it fascinated me for a long time and in my head I was on a space mission with robots and my best friend as a co-pilot... thanks for your videos
@@prestigemanufacturing2611 THERE PLENTY FAST ENOUGH FOR YOU. GREAT STEEL, GREAT ELECTRONICS, BULLETPROOF. UNLESS YOU MAKING A SHIT LOAD OF PARTS. THERE PERFECT. sHIT I GOT A HAAS MINI 2000 TIGHT AS HELL. IT'S NOT STUPID FAST BUT WELL YOU KNOW.
Don’t be foolish my brother, GOD BLESSED YOU WITH THESE TWO AMAZING FULLY Functional CNC MACHINES WHICH NEW WERE PROBABLY $180,000 and $220,000 respectively . You got truly blessed now when you need a job done you still have the other machine available keeping them both increase your production. If you need tools there’s several surplus companies.
@@prestigemanufacturing2611 no joke I am interested in one of these or another machine. I have a traditional machine shop and want a CNC mill with a 4th axis. I will email you.
I have fusion post processor that I use on my MX3 control, I would be happy to share. Also have some videos on using this control on my you tube channel. Thanks for these videos on the old machines.
Could air be used to shift the transmission? Air might be used for spindle orintation locking too. The double arm tool changer was changing 1 + 3/4 tool changes. Other machine double arm toolchangers use a brake motor to STOP arm movement. Maybe the brake is worn out due to a limit switch not switching. Never ran a Matsura, I have only herd great things about them, awsome purchase!
Hi. New viewer to channel and semi retired from shop maint. So, I am seeing new machines as components. And all of the configure to shop. But I simply urge you to have a hard look at the various electrical devices and runs. This is where a time part and particular care must be expended to a factual best available placement as no abrasion, best locate as away from any flammable and damp, water as drain, ect. Typically, the care and well thought out domain as source to machine is tailored to fully protected enclosure and strain relief. With the near future constant as to productive and paying jobs, a time as to address power is needed. And I hope, you will capture a bit as more fully installed, you see. I am cheering for your good fortune and those spindles looked well cared for. My shop is small, but I want one at once. M.
Where state are you in? Love that BP but it may be a whole other entity shipping it up here. Very intrigued at the offer though. Would like to look into it a bit farther possibly@@prestigemanufacturing2611
Looks like Christmas came early this year. M3 should give you confirmation that the phases are correct... right? If spindle rotates clockwise with M3, that should imply the R, S & T are correct. A single phase/240V machine doesn't have a polarity or phase orientation...
Nice get! I am happy with my 700 dollar clapped out bridgeport, I dont know how elated I would feel getting that deal. That little bed mill needs to be in a museum haha.
I've got a eagle surface grinder and shadowgraph that came out of Rolls Royce lab in 1990s its was in factory condition still as accurate a d clean as the day it was built.
im not an engineer but I enjoyed the enthusiasm. Crazy that these machines were all but consigned to the scrap bin, the world we live in. Seems that your CPR was a succes.
You mentioned you liked they had the +z- but I've yet to run a machine the z up wasn't + I work in a long and large part machine shop, and I tell everyone when they're getting a tool out of a part to remember they're "positive" they want to take z up
Idk what it is about CNC machining but this is so interesting. Never used one in my life but i want to get one😂. Teaching myself fusion 360 to design parts on my 3d printer.
I believe it. I saved a Matsurra twin spindle from 97 with an I80 control. The shop closed due to the owners retirements with Matsurras going back to the late 70 still running. The same shop bought 5020 Fadals in 97 and 2000, and then started going with robodrills. At the auction I found a computer sales manual from like the late 70s if memory serves me correctly.
PathPilot is a front end for LinuxCNC. It's not a controller. It's the User Interface for the machine controller. LinuxCNC comes with front ends though. You can get all of that for nothing. Which is even cheaper than super cheap. But maybe PathPilot has features that are worth something? I've never used it so I can't say. I have used the front ends that LinuxCNC has though. AXIS works for me.
That machine looks like it is in great shape. Your observation that the back wall and the control console is clean is spot on for checking condition. I have to believe they gave you the price that they did because you were the only one that would save them. I guess no one wants to mess with these older machines. They work. Perhaps they are worried about all those electronics in the cabinet?
Luckily you can just get a tubular lock pick to open that back panel, you can also use it to find out what bitting the actual lock is so you can order a key if needed
It`s a joyful time too watch machines like that..... clean and neat. I always look for how clean the machines are when I visit a shop. It will tell me a lot about the company and the people working there. Once I came to a company and did see dirt all over the place, I did simple walk out silenced and having the manager trying to get my name because the company was in need of workers. The price is just a symbolic action from the seller because they thinking these machines deserve to live on. But it`s a shame you didn't get the manuals with it..... but but some time you cant get it ALL at once.
The big issue with these old controllers is they don't support lookahead. All the modern CAM software expects that and posts out G-Code with thousands of little line segments. This causes these machines to shudder or cut very slowly. With a complete working control system and good bones, someone could upgrade the controller with a FANUC/Siemens if they want to go big or something like LinuxCNC on the cheap.
I’ve got around that problem some by not posting out canned cycles and that makes the programs shorter but this machine will actually accept 9500 bad rate and that’s pretty good. Thanks for the comment 🙏
@@prestigemanufacturing2611Man, I have obly been machining here in Europe for a year or so, but this does not look like a problem if they are machines whom are cared for. Here we do stuff wind energy or just side jobs and one offs. You take the drawing and just punch it out by hand in minutes straight to machine. All that CAM, atleast for 3xis, is just glorifiried g01, g02, g03 and some cycles sprinkled. You get a drawing for like a hundred parts, puncht it out, do the setup and just run. This is what it is made for.
I'd prefer to leave the Yasnac controller these machines can't move fast why push them beyond what they were engineered to take much bigger cuts slowly. You would have to put huge servos on the heavy table to gain very little. If you want a high speed hard mill buy a Mikron with offset ways and get a much lighter table with more rigidity that will pull 1 g in a cut but you're only using an 8 mm end mill taking a hundred micron cuts But at dizzying speed. Completely different technology meant for a different kind of part the spindle will not support 20,000 rpm why would you need 800 inch per minute rapids put a 2 inch diameter end Mill in it and get some 2 inch d15 plate and rough out some sheer blades.
Whoever owned those, respected them, and had employees that respected the equipment they used, so rare.
That’s so rare
Sir how I buy this type off old cnc machine
Email me
I’ve worked on these machines for the past 30 years, have access to all of the control and machine manuals.
Would be happy to help you figure out the issues.
Awesome!! Can you email me ? Prestigemanufacturingky@gmail.com
Wow! This is the comment one wants to read 👍 super cool! 👍👍👍
Once a toolaholic always a toolaholic...... Willing to give a helping hands is a gift. Respect Sir.
I have some manuals with parameters also but for Matsuura 710V, my machine does not zero out on any axis and spindle wont turn on,does it have to be all zeroed for the spindle to run?? maybe i have to service its encoders so it can home the axis..
@@sameworks I don't know this machine, but I'm guessing your spindle won't turn on until you have the axis zero'd out. That is likely a safety thing. Of course it all depends upon the machine designer, but I've seen this behavior before and it does make sense; as such, I'd push that problem down the stack until you get the zeroing figured out. With that in mind, it is also statistically improbably that *all* of your encoders have an issue with them (addressing your comment about NO axis will zero). A much more likely cause is user error (frankly, probably that is probably the most likely) or a parameter issue. I. don't know if Matsura uses/used a generic control, but if they did then you should understand that many controls are darned near incapable of doing anything without the proper parameters. It is like a person with a brain but a damaged spinal cord--the brain works but it cannot control the appendages. Many home sequences work by hitting a limit switch and then moving back to an encoder index pulse. But that limit switch is likely going to a generic INPUT pin on the CNC control. It is the parameters (and PLC) that define the actual function of the input. Anyhow, hope this helps a bit... Manuals are crucial... try to snag a set.
Man, that’s awesome, wish I could find a milling machine for $350 even if it wasn’t CNC 😂. Awesome video though and good luck with the machines!
Thanks 👍
The company I work for has a nearly identical MC-760VX and we formerly had a very similar MC-760V which also had a 4th axis. I'm very familiar with these machines mechanically, electrically, and programming wise.
You should be able to load programs with a modern PC with a serial port. Get your COM settings to match and have a high quality serial adapter.
If you have any specific questions, feel free to reach out and I'll do what I can to assist.
The 760VX is definitely the newer/better machine. You can probably retrofit the 4th from the 760V to it if you want.
Thanks man I appreciate it🙏
Honestly i would primarily look at the enclosed unit. Controls are more familiar to you. But if it was me I would just keep both and make them my primary units that I would use. Might not need the 4th axis now but could start getting into that.
Definitely something to think about. Thanks 🙏
I hope you can get them going, I hate seeing things just get junked. Your level of confidence is amazing to just dive in, every time I do something wrong on a computer I have to get my wife to fix it and she says why did you do that? The price was crazy. My 50 yr old Bridgeport is worth way more than that and couldn't do anything compared to those machines. Really enjoying your videos!
Thanks man i really appreciate it🙏
If it was up to me, i would keep both. Figure out which one is the more useful for right now, keep the others in storage until you needed it or grow your business where you will need it.
That’s a good idea. Thanks 🙏
That's insane, dude. Score of a lifetime.
Thanks 🙏
1:18 That's awesome that you taught yourself CNC on a Matsuura! Great videos! Love how you go through each step and explain things! Keeps it interesting for the ones who don't know! I need to see if my machine has a RS232 port for drip feed. Awesome deal on those 2 machines!
My Matsuura MC 710V does not home any of the axis,and spindle wont turn on as well,i have all the parameters installed though. Does anybody know if i have to home the machine in all axis in order to run the spindle? i always get 3.25.05 sequence error if i just go ahead and do M03 S200 for example. Are any encoders for sale?
What a steal! I, as a hobbiest, would go all in on converting it to linux-cnc, probably making it worse than it is right now. Drip-feed looks like a cool option, tho. And I would keep both. I'd never sell one of those, knowing I got it for $350 - there's no cost to recoup - and those machines would make plenty of money if you put them to work.
🙏🙏
You know... I've been there and done that. There are positives and negatives associated with a conversion. First, they take a LONG time, especially on a fairly complex machine like the Matsura. The tool changer could give you a ton of headache. I spent way too long converting a simple machine and just before I finished, someone gave me a very nice Dyna DM4400m which was far nicer than the converted machine. I pulled all the materials off so I've got them if I need them but I don't know if I'll use the stuff. The reality is that the Mitsubishi control may be old, but it works. The "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" comes into play here. The wiring is excellent, the capabilities are excellent, etc, etc. And.... the tool changer works. So, what do I really get with a LinuxCNC? Frankly, at the end of the day, I realized I got less than what I had if I just drip fed to the machine.
I'm definitely not saying you are wrong. Every situation is different. But, in my case, I think I've made the right decision to hold off on any conversion.
@@Alan-gz1kx Nah, that's exactly what I was thinking. Sure - it wouldd be cool to retrofit the whole machine with a LinuxCNC frontend/backend - But drip-feed just works. And if this machine could do more, than the limits, I'm pretty sure, they enable it. This is a a perfectly good machine with a simple serial interface - it's like a 4000 pound 3D-Printer.
I hear about these deals and never find one😢 congrats on the find of a lifetime (at least for me it would be!) Beautiful!!🎉
Thank you 🙏
Those old school matsura's are legendary, the rapids aren't insane but they can take serious cuts and hold tight tolerances while doing it. I had the chance to get an old Mazak fully tooled with CAT50 a couple years ago and a Mazak horizontal machining center fully tooled for free. Sadly I was 17 at the time still working out of my mom's 1 car garage so I didn't have room for them. They were in similar condition to your matsura's
Nice man. Thanks for the support!
Ah man- that sucks that you could not get them.
Did have similar experience .... but was forced to say no..... bitter as hexx
Keep looking! The cold hard reality is that there are a lot of older machines out there that are not being used. Eventually the owners, who have already depreciated the machines to zero and are using new equipment, realize that they want the space. They've already made their money off the machines, but they try to sell them, often without success because the machines are not commercially viable. The astute home guy can sometimes make a deal of "I'll get a rigger to remove the machine and you won't have to dispose of the headache." In other words... you get it for free. I ended up with a machine that way (although it was the owner that approached me after he couldn't sell it). The guy even gave me all the tooling, manuals, PLUS a rotary axis (kind. of like you, Prestige). It was a stellar setup.
The key is to *always* be polite and friendly. If you are a PITA, that won't get you anywhere because they'll just find someone willing to junk the machine just because you were difficult. But wait your time and you may very well come across something for free/cheap. The hardest part about this, however, is the "how long will it take." The reality is, it might take 1 week or it could be two years...
For the Problem with the Tool changer, i would Check the Break of the Tool change Motor or the relay, it Looks Like it changes the Tool and changes it again. So i think ist overrunning its stop Position.
Best regards
Flo
Thanks for the info !
I run a 760 everyday, good machines, owned it for 30 years. The old Yaz controls are slow, hard to get parts for , have no support from yaskawa and the 626 mk2 spindle drives like to blow up. the phasing has nothing to do with the tool changer, they are hydraulic, both of the machines are the same, one has the full enclosure. You might wanna become friends with Satto... A Matsuura will show a Haas up for what it is. They are worth running and certainly worth a retrofit.
Thanks for the insight !
try swapping two phases .. I have tried the same with a leadwell milling machine that also went kuk kuk in the tool changer
We just dismantled one of these. Let me know if you need any parts. I saved ell the electronics.
Keep both!!! You don't do any 4th axis work because why would you quote/take a job you're not equipped to run...? Right? BUT... now you can! The deal you got here, imo, it'd be foolish to squander the long term potential you have with these 2 machines.
Also, Spindle start clockwise M03, counterclockwise M04, spindle stop command is M05.
Thanks for the input 🙏
RS232 (depending on the device) only needs 3 pins at minimum, so that machine probably uses RTS/CTS and some other features contained within the RS232 (now TIA-232) standard.
Nice 🙏thanks for the advice
Wow! Incredible! How relevant are these machines today? Should I be looking for deals like this? I realize this is a RARE find but hot damn, I could afford to purchase, ship and buy tooling for this machine all at once! Lol
They can definitely be used for modern CNC machhining
It amazes me how one can get fully working, really well maintained cnc machines like that. You would be able to start making a lot of money directly on those machines. I would expect that a machine like that would go closer to like what 4-5k atleast?
Just shipping them would be way more than you payed for the machines.
Definitely
As far as which one to keep, that depends on what you want to use them for. Both have Box ways which means they are meant for heavy side cut forces, but the accuracy suffers in the smaller part range. (Maybe less than .5 inch) This also means that there is a wear spot on all axis, might consider having them scraped if ya wanna get serious. The open bed one seems to take less maintenance (No spindle chiller and does not require air.) My guess is that the enclosed one is designed for machining plastic injection molds, super fine precision. The open bed is more a general purpose machine. In no way am I saying it is less of a machine. Any Matsuura of this vintage is known for HIGH QUALITY of manufacture. In closing, if what you manufacture fits in the open bed one keep it. If you are making injection mold tooling, keep the enclosed one.
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You must know the right people , because there's no way in hell to get any machine for 350$ , most secondhand tools are at least 50 bucks a piece. There was a guy who had connections and knew exactly what's gonna happen and when , and even so he could only get 3 micron machines for 3000€ a pop . All three were in pretty banged up condition , not even extremly old , newer than theese machines .
For a standard peasant such as myself it's impossible to put my hands on a halfway decent machine for less than 5000€ . The worn manual lathes from the 70's start around 2000€ , so yes ... i envy you :D .
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You want to buy a Fadal 4020? I just bought it today but it’s too heavy for my home garage 😢. 10k pounds sitting on 3-4 inch foundation haha. I was so excited, ready to start my own shop .
Send me a email. Prestigemanufacturingky@gmail.com
Do you already have one or more CNC machines in your shop - possibly running on modern code?
You stated that you never do 4th axis machining, which implies that you do not currently have that capability in your shop. To me, that would be an argument for keeping the 4-axis machine - if for no other reason to expand your skill set. The 4th axis could also simplify some jobs where you currently need to re-clamp the work piece or manually readjust a fixture.
Do you already have a machine that has a chiller? If so, what else does that new machine have that is non-existent on your current tooling?
Just because the connectors have been cut off does not make the cables useless. It is not that difficult to repin the connectors if you desire that control method.
I usually do have more machines running modern code but I actually sold them and I’m going to replace them soon
Woops
G0G91G28Z0;
T06;
M06;
On a Matsuura you need to index the magazine
Then command the ATC arm
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Comand tool first T06;then M06;
Must be at Z return first
G0G98G28Z0;
T06;
M06;
Thanks
You thief you got a hell of a deal. In 2003-07 I was a maintenance man in a factory and work on one of those machine it was a great machine kept in crappy condition but we had very little problems with it.We ran on RS232
😂 thanks
I know these machines by heart. Yasnac control mx2 or mx3 rigging cost $1,500 per machine, if not more. Drip feed at 1200 max maybe ?
I’m definitely going to lower the baud rate. Any tips on setting the tools and work offset?
Who finds a cnc machine for $350 that’s insane and to have them be in such good shape? Finds of a lifetime.
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For that price I’d keep both. Unless you’re just so lucky you get machines like this everyday for $350 a pop 🤷
I come across some pretty good deals, but this definitely doesn’t happen every day
On the old yasnaks and fanucs you have to call the t-line before the M6 line. If you put them on the same line it would alarm.
Like this
T1;
M6;
Ah.. thanks man
not true, M6T1 will load T1, you put the next tool on the next line
@@Zeusspuppit depends on the machine but a lot of machines will alarm if the T number is on the same line as the M6. I had an Enshu that had a Fanuc 6M control that would do the same thing his is doing with the arm when I would put the T# and M6 on the same line. Once I figured out that it didn't like that I hardly had any problems with the toolchanger from that point on.
@@christopherzeiger9321 , I dont know about an Enshu with a 6m, I own two Matsurra 760's, same as above and they will absolutely pick up a tool with M6 and the tool number. Same yaznac control.
Japanese top quality and looks hardly used. We are talking unicorns here.
Definitely!
We actually had an MX2 control yasnac 760. Was a really bulletproof machine ran for decades even though we neglected the living crap out of it. We never figured out how to drip feed rs232. But I did write a program that ran on an old dos PC that access the parallel port in a pin by pin methods that allowed us to drip feed... It also had subprogram support... I'll check and see if I still have the source code. You will need a DOS computer with a parallel to run it.
Nice!! Let me know. Thanks 🙏
Willing to give a helping hands is a gift. Respect Sir.
I would say because you don't have a tool in it didn't detect the tool that's why you get the alarm interesting telling you that
Come on, man, we're do you find these. Lol
😂
rs232 only needs 3 wires. a twisted pair to communicate and a single wire for the handshake. should be pins 2,3, and 7 machine side 2,3 and 5 pc side. youll probably need to drip that old girl to do much with it using modern cam. if its lost the params no worries. real easy to get back into it. you enter all the comm's stuff by hand {8 bit binary} then push the other 200 pages through the rs232 connection. You will def want to get that working again! cheap and easy to do so. put a pcmcia db9 card in your pc. get a db9 to db25 cable. youll probably need a db25 to db25 jumper box as well, if you gotta move some pins around. easy peasy! the free software i use is called NCLink.
Nice, thanks for the input!
I had found your video and then found a surplus company with a robot which uses a tool cabinet unfortunately I am in an apartment. I think I will need to get with my nephew and start a lease and get my shop together.
Definitely go for it!
Yasnac has way better canned cycles then fanuc ever inagined the Japanese always made their programs line by line they never used canned cycles that's why the Fanuc had user macro B
I had a Mori Seki MV80 that was never meant to leave Japan it had no canned cycles at all😊 they offered to put some in it I said screw that leave it alone I learned to like it that way you can actually run faster by programming granular mostly because you only move exactly what you need or want it definitely forces you to clean up your programs.
Nice!!
Me and my dad just bought a 2000 haas vf3 to start up a shop that is in similar condition to the two you bought although we actually paid a decent sum of money for it
Nice!!
Man I wish I could find one of those for the price!!! Im a hobbyist but I would keep the 4th axis machine
🙏thanks for the comment and support
This really looks like a modernization project for the RUclipsr RotarySMP and LunoxCNC. The Mechanics are great, you just need a new controller.
But you are right it is a great machine.
Good luck with these machine.
Thank you
Why don't you contact who you got them of see if they have a email for a employee that ran them 😮😮save you hrs if not days trying to sort them put them up cook a pig with some beers you're laughing 😂😂
😂
Id swap the electronics out for some new gear
THERE'S VIDEOS 4/5 YEARS OLD ON RUclips RUNNING THEM SAYING EVERY THING ABOUT THE MACHINE
Thanks I’ll look that up 🙏
Must be fkn nice to be handed such a deal when I can't even find a single machine worth the asking price.
🤷🏻♂️
What a STEAL!! I'm just a shmo but I def appreciates value, tech & restoration.
And wow is this dude KNOWLEDGEABLE. Remembers complex stuff from decades ago.
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These screens are immaculate then taps on it, grubby fingers leaving marks all over lol
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if i had a dollar for each time he said 350 dollars, i´d have 350 dollars :P
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M41 for low gear and M42 for high. 😉
350 US is an incredible price! But it's not the total price and not the running costs for the machine's operating materials. These machines are particularly valuable if someone uses them in all their functions. I have always been amazed by the smooth movements of the axes, spindles, tool changers and the interaction and can watch it for hours. As a little boy, I watched washing machines at work. I don't know why, it fascinated me for a long time and in my head I was on a space mission with robots and my best friend as a co-pilot... thanks for your videos
Thanks for watching 🙏
maby M41 /42 GEAR SHIFT
You got lucky on that one.
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Those machines here in Argentina will cost around 50k
Wow
Could you make a minature steam locomotive with one of these machines?
Absolutely
your shipping cost is probably more than $350
Absolutely
I fixed matsuura machines for many years. They look in fantastic condition. Good luck!
Thank you 😁
Damn chep even if you p 50000 you b ok Matsuda damnn good
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Dude you need to go buy a lottery ticket right now with the luck you have lol. I can't believe how clean they are man.
Thanks man 🙏
You have no idea how jealous I am. lol
Keep them both and start making parts. In your free time (when you are waiting to sell).
I’m setting one up now to start making parts 🔥
@@prestigemanufacturing2611 THERE PLENTY FAST ENOUGH FOR YOU. GREAT STEEL, GREAT ELECTRONICS, BULLETPROOF. UNLESS YOU MAKING A SHIT LOAD OF PARTS. THERE PERFECT. sHIT I GOT A HAAS MINI 2000 TIGHT AS HELL. IT'S NOT STUPID FAST BUT WELL YOU KNOW.
I would by that matsura with the 4th off you if you don't want to keep it.
Email me. Prestigemanufacturingky@gmail.com
Don’t be foolish my brother, GOD BLESSED YOU WITH THESE TWO AMAZING FULLY Functional CNC MACHINES WHICH NEW WERE PROBABLY $180,000 and $220,000 respectively . You got truly blessed now when you need a job done you still have the other machine available keeping them both increase your production. If you need tools there’s several surplus companies.
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You have to run the program on that tape.
I’m super curious to see what’s on it myself lol
@@prestigemanufacturing2611 no joke I am interested in one of these or another machine. I have a traditional machine shop and want a CNC mill with a 4th axis. I will email you.
@@williamhamill813 I emailed back 😀
They couldn't find an operator to get it going. Everybody's hiring but nobody can get a job
I have fusion post processor that I use on my MX3 control, I would be happy to share. Also have some videos on using this control on my you tube channel. Thanks for these videos on the old machines.
Definitely man ! Can you email me it? Prestigemanufacturingky@gmail.com
Just subscribed, mucho interesting!!!
Awesome, thank you!
Could air be used to shift the transmission? Air might be used for spindle orintation locking too. The double arm tool changer was changing 1 + 3/4 tool changes. Other machine double arm toolchangers use a brake motor to STOP arm movement. Maybe the brake is worn out due to a limit switch not switching. Never ran a Matsura, I have only herd great things about them, awsome purchase!
Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it!
Okay shut her down and go celebrate have a good lunch soda or beer your choice
Hi. New viewer to channel and semi retired from shop maint. So, I am seeing new machines as components. And all of the configure to shop. But I simply urge you to have a hard look at the various electrical devices and runs. This is where a time part and particular care must be expended to a factual best available placement as no abrasion, best locate as away from any flammable and damp, water as drain, ect. Typically, the care and well thought out domain as source to machine is tailored to fully protected enclosure and strain relief. With the near future constant as to productive and paying jobs, a time as to address power is needed.
And I hope, you will capture a bit as more fully installed, you see. I am cheering for your good fortune and those spindles looked well cared for. My shop is small, but I want one at once. M.
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So Jealous, I want to find just a knee mill at such a great deal! Nice score. Awesome vid as usual man
Thanks man. I have a knee mill I’d sell you super cheap. Watch my video with the Bridgeport and press brake. I still have that one if your interested
Where state are you in? Love that BP but it may be a whole other entity shipping it up here. Very intrigued at the offer though. Would like to look into it a bit farther possibly@@prestigemanufacturing2611
Looks like Christmas came early this year.
M3 should give you confirmation that the phases are correct... right? If spindle rotates clockwise with M3, that should imply the R, S & T are correct. A single phase/240V machine doesn't have a polarity or phase orientation...
Your right 😀
This machine is brand new and it has not taken any cut.
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Huh... never run any Fryer equipment before, mostly Park and Denver.
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WOW! what a great score. Way back in the late 70's, used to write code on a flexiwriter. Seeing that paper tape brought back the memories
Wow!!
Did you check gearchange after you got air to it? Because this machine might work different.
I didn’t. But I thought about it after I went home and I’m pretty sure it was because I don’t have air to the machine
I wondered the same thing. I bet the gear change mech is air powered
I thought the same thing.
BRO!!! Keep both of these machines to good of a deal !!! In my eyes to DAM CLEAN to sell.
Thanks 🙏
Nice get! I am happy with my 700 dollar clapped out bridgeport, I dont know how elated I would feel getting that deal. That little bed mill needs to be in a museum haha.
😂😂😂
Yasnac mx3 can take input from rs232 for sure. I'm pretty sure ive drip fed a matsuura mc500vss (old red one like a fire truck)
Nice! I drip fed a red one with the yasnak i80 controller. So hopefully these older controllers will drip feed too
Wow, I'm so jealous, where I live I could not even buy a dilapidated manual mill for that money.
I’m sorry to hear that
Sell both of them and make more money and with all the money you make go buy a new one
my fing vevor minilathe cost like 800-1200$. I feel realy fing scammed right there
😂😂😂 I don’t always score like this
They must be the nicest machines in the US. Almost museum pieces.
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I've got a eagle surface grinder and shadowgraph that came out of Rolls Royce lab in 1990s its was in factory condition still as accurate a d clean as the day it was built.
Nice!
im not an engineer but I enjoyed the enthusiasm. Crazy that these machines were all but consigned to the scrap bin, the world we live in. Seems that your CPR was a succes.
Thanks for the support I appreciate it
You mentioned you liked they had the +z- but I've yet to run a machine the z up wasn't +
I work in a long and large part machine shop, and I tell everyone when they're getting a tool out of a part to remember they're "positive" they want to take z up
when will the video when you test them with a modern program, great purchase and I can't wait to see what's next
Soon. I’m setting up one of them now to run some parts
Idk what it is about CNC machining but this is so interesting. Never used one in my life but i want to get one😂. Teaching myself fusion 360 to design parts on my 3d printer.
That’s how I started my CNC journey with Fusion360
I believe it. I saved a Matsurra twin spindle from 97 with an I80 control. The shop closed due to the owners retirements with Matsurras going back to the late 70 still running. The same shop bought 5020 Fadals in 97 and 2000, and then started going with robodrills. At the auction I found a computer sales manual from like the late 70s if memory serves me correctly.
Nice!!
Keep both one for running other for parts .
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Good lord sell it all and bank that money!!!! Keep getting good deals and rehabing the machines. You are quickly becoming the CNC Rehab Maestro!!!!
Thanks 🙏 😀
Just swap out the controller for something new. Tormach will sell you pathpilot super cheap and it just runs on a desktop
PathPilot is a front end for LinuxCNC. It's not a controller. It's the User Interface for the machine controller. LinuxCNC comes with front ends though. You can get all of that for nothing. Which is even cheaper than super cheap. But maybe PathPilot has features that are worth something? I've never used it so I can't say. I have used the front ends that LinuxCNC has though. AXIS works for me.
How I buy these cnc machine
Email me prestigemanufacturingky@gmail.com
That machine looks like it is in great shape. Your observation that the back wall and the control console is clean is spot on for checking condition. I have to believe they gave you the price that they did because you were the only one that would save them. I guess no one wants to mess with these older machines. They work. Perhaps they are worried about all those electronics in the cabinet?
The company was closing and had to get them out. That’s why I was able to get such a good deal
Luckily you can just get a tubular lock pick to open that back panel, you can also use it to find out what bitting the actual lock is so you can order a key if needed
Thanks for the info 🙏
It`s a joyful time too watch machines like that..... clean and neat.
I always look for how clean the machines are when I visit a shop. It will tell me a lot about the company and the people working there. Once I came to a company and did see dirt all over the place, I did simple walk out silenced and having the manager trying to get my name because the company was in need of workers.
The price is just a symbolic action from the seller because they thinking these machines deserve to live on. But it`s a shame you didn't get the manuals with it..... but but some time you cant get it ALL at once.
Thanks 🙏
You hold it till it slows down. once it slows you let go and it will finish homing.
Thanks
The big issue with these old controllers is they don't support lookahead. All the modern CAM software expects that and posts out G-Code with thousands of little line segments. This causes these machines to shudder or cut very slowly. With a complete working control system and good bones, someone could upgrade the controller with a FANUC/Siemens if they want to go big or something like LinuxCNC on the cheap.
I’ve got around that problem some by not posting out canned cycles and that makes the programs shorter but this machine will actually accept 9500 bad rate and that’s pretty good. Thanks for the comment 🙏
@@prestigemanufacturing2611Man, I have obly been machining here in Europe for a year or so, but this does not look like a problem if they are machines whom are cared for.
Here we do stuff wind energy or just side jobs and one offs.
You take the drawing and just punch it out by hand in minutes straight to machine. All that CAM, atleast for 3xis, is just glorifiried g01, g02, g03 and some cycles sprinkled.
You get a drawing for like a hundred parts, puncht it out, do the setup and just run. This is what it is made for.
I'd prefer to leave the Yasnac controller these machines can't move fast why push them beyond what they were engineered to take much bigger cuts slowly.
You would have to put huge servos on the heavy table to gain very little.
If you want a high speed hard mill buy a Mikron with offset ways and get a much lighter table with more rigidity that will pull 1 g in a cut but you're only using an 8 mm end mill taking a hundred micron cuts But at dizzying speed.
Completely different technology meant for a different kind of part the spindle will not support 20,000 rpm why would you need 800 inch per minute rapids put a 2 inch diameter end Mill in it and get some 2 inch d15 plate and rough out some sheer blades.
@@prestigemanufacturing2611 not posting canned cycles makes the program longer. you adjust the bitrate of the software.
My shop has a MC 760 and an MC 1000 and both are in great shape. The 760 needs an electronics upgrade
Nice!!
i am very happy for you , great buy, God blessing you, good luck ✅👍🙂
Thanks so much!