Right??? If they cared about solving issues as they come.. yeah they probably wouldn’t make as much money.. but the player base may come together more.. 4 years of dragonlink nonsense..
@@bloodarcher7841 the only reliable ways to hit dragonlink are to power creep it or to ban half of the generic dragon support. I understand what you’re trying to say but dragonlink is definitely not a good example for it
@@WavemasterAshi ...not really? Unless “lose control of their game” means printing generic cards that help dragons, then yeah sure. The only reason there isn’t a “dragonlink” equivalent to spellcasters or aquas or some other type is because konami purposely makes dragon support good, which naturally leads to spam strong decks like that. If reptiles had as much op support then they’d be hella unfair too. It’s less them losing control and more them allowing the game to be a breeding ground for this stuff, because it’s 100% intentional on their part
Honestly the "Big 4 Metas" are my favorite, I really enjoyed 2019. It meant that while the big bois were able to romp around in tier 1, the tier 2's and the rogues could know well enough what to build for in tournaments, what tech to run, et cetera.
Banlists follow the golden rule that all of entertainment follows - You can't please everyone. Most people don't realize this because they've never had to sit on the receiving end of people insulting everything they do. The only thing players need to be doing about banlists is adapting their decks to what the banlist does as well as be smart enough to understand what has a target on its back. I think the demand for banlists comes from the imaginary utopia-esque idea that if you ban X cards that all of a sudden that would create a perfect harmony where there are 12 tier 1 decks and 20 tier 2 decks. That will never happen regardless of what any banlist ever does because the formation of a meta inherently comes from the fact that people gravitate towards what's "good" in PvP games. If you're competitive you will take any edge or advantage you can get, and there are no decks that are exactly equal in power except a direct mirror match. There will never be equal representation because the community is not equally interested in all decks & archetypes.
Yep. You are completely correct. A good example is how my ban list suggestions differ from say MBTs I often suggest cards that would either restrict either future card design, by forcing power creep, or cards that are so powerful, that even decent to good alternatives wouldn’t see play. While MBT suggests hits based on simply based on how the current META would be impacted. This suggesting cards be fried that would be awful to play against as long as they aren’t going to be META. This is why I say that Savage dragon and Apolusa should be banned, while he would never even touch them. But he suggested Cyber Jar to be freed, which I wouldn’t even joke about
@@frankwest5388 nah, Apollusa? I can almost see Savage, but Apollusa should never be banned. It isn't so oppressive that it ruins the game, and cards are allowed to be good.
@@darkanddolly16 2 Things A: Apollusa can easily stop your turn immediatly, if you dont have a spell to deal with her or imperm. B: My main problem with her, is that she powercreeps too much. Any monster that doesnt have multiple monster negations, are just not worth it with her in the game. Crystal Wing? Worse than her. Any other Link 4 that isnt just an OTK enabler? Not worth ending on. Maybe used as an extender, but otherwise bad. This means that she ruins future game design and makes otherwise perfectly fine cards unviable. It is basically impossible to justify making almost anything else, if you could just make her, since she is that generic. Avramax, Borreload Dragon, Borrelguard and many other perfectly fine and powerful cards are not worth it due to her. You dont even have to invest much into her. Just use a left over combo Link monster and anything else. Also non OPT negates should not be a thing on an easily accesible extra deck card. LADD makes you at least dedicate your game state to her and is a double edged blade.
@@frankwest5388 I have to disagree. Apollusa may end the turn of a bad deck, but it's very easy to out Apollusa. Her negates being tied to her ATK also make her not impossible to beat over when the average amount of negates you'll have on her are 2-3. She's also once per chain. Avermax alone can be impossible for some decks to beat, doesn't make him a problem card. As I said, strong cards are allowed to be strong when there are reasonable outs to it. As long as the game doesn't become degenerate it'll be fine, but there's no need to drag it down to Fortune Fairy level.
@@darkanddolly16 its usually appolusa plus the rest of the board that's a problem. It's often the difference between having a strong and a weak end board for decks, with people needing board breaking cards to deal with it. Another thing is it being around makes Nibiru weaker in the format. I like Nibiru as a card, it has a lot of counter play, and I acknowledge it's only the strong hands that are able to appolusa and still so things for decks. But I think the game would be better without that option because it forces combo decks to make more trade offs to play around nib.
Hey, y'all remember last year when there was absolutely nothing going on because of- well, you know, and people were still clamoring for an updated banlist even though there was no need for one, so Konami just unbanned a card or two and those same people got mad and asked why did Konami even update the banlist? That was funny.
@@BmanTheChamp true but just because there’s no events shouldn’t mean the Banlist should not happen.. because if that’s the case, when events started again, there’d be a nightmare of shit to deal with.
I think konami should take more risks with the unbanning of cards, a few times card stay banned for way too long, they come back and they're just totally irrelevant... They should takes risks and "test the waters" by unbanning some cards that could just maybe come off the list, just to see what happens for a format, if they are truly broken and become a problem just put them back on the banlist, but if not great! they discovered more cards that can be released from the banlist early.
Even if its within a category for "tentatively unrestricted" cards, so that nobody would be surprised if they were immediately put back on the list within a couple weeks.
We need bigger and more of "risk taking" banlists....Like jsut ban or limit or unlimit over 10 cards, not 2 or 3.....Then emergency banlist after 2 weeks to either revert the changes or reduce them.....Just change the data on the website based on the players suggestions and complains, replays and newly discovered "meta breaking giga OP new strats tier 0" stuff people come up with
Remember when Saryuja Skull Dread was “ban this sick filth” in 2018 and now its “I had a spot in my Extra Deck and sometimes need to fix my hand I guess”
I play Yugioh specifically because it has no set rotation. I build new decks with the new sets, but I appreciate that my favorite deck (Six Sams) will always be something I can take to a locals to FTK or build a silly board the games my opponent doesn't topdeck Ash.
@@darkanddolly16 I played MTG for six years and it was so annoying. It was just a money pit scheme. And anyone who played just modern casually and not standard was looked down on as MTG players typically like to do as much as possible.
At some point in the video you mentioned people’s attitude towards equalizer cards (Dark Ruler, Nibiru, Droplets, Lightning Storm, etc.). Potential video topic? I love these discussion videos a lot, and it’s always nice to listen without needing to watch.
@@christopherbishop1950 price point wouldn't be so bad if konami just gave us the same reprints the ocg has like the evenly matched one.. I understand they have to get their products to sell though
The way I see it, equalizers are not fun, but they're a necessary evil. It's insanely frustrating to receive and not that gratifying to use either (though I'll admit that putting a Nibiru at the perfect time is just insanely satisfying, but most other are just not that interesting to use), but without them the game would devolve rapidly so they are important, I just wish they were a bit more fun to play with/against for the most part
My problem with yugioh it’s that the game is too expensive. I remember when I was 22 and spent around 1000 on a Insector deck. Then the deck got hit. I lost all my money. I saw that I needed to spend another 1000 for a competitive deck. Some of y’all are able to do it but I just realized I needed to spend my money on other things and start saving for my future.
@@thomaskey9688 not true. I remember there are times a deck passed 1000 dollars just because all the cards in the extra deck are extremely hard to pull. Remember draccosack era? Like each extra deck monster during that time was around 100. Like 80 percent of the time meta cards are usually the rarest cards. There was no common Tour guide back when it released. Trust me I would of gotten them.
Have you considered anti-meta? You cant have a good thing if you arent willing to pay the price, thats just how competition work. If you dont play competitively then find people who are willing to play within your budget.
Recently discovered this channel, and found the content really good even though I haven't touched YGO in almost fifteen years. An interesting possible take from an outsider is that YGO could benefit from the addition of more formats, such as a Standard format that only takes certain sets into account (that have been released within a certain timeframe). This allows newer sets that may be weaker than older ones the opportunity to shine due to being an environment with a lower overall power. This could also result in more varying gameplay environments and give Konami more design space to work with as when they're designing for Standard, they just need to worry about the sets that it will be in Standard with as opposed to the entirety of YGO's currently-legal cardlist. This could also potentially slow down power creep a bit, since they can opt to wind down power levels over a certain season. Several card games have already adopted this style with some degrees of success such as Hearthstone, Shadowverse, and MTG.
People who say Konami should take player input have clearly never spoken to Yugioh players about the banlist, they have some of the most ludicrous ideas. A few custom banlist I’ve seen: all handtraps banned, all floodgates banned, all ED monster that have an Omni negate banned, etc, etc. The players absolutely do NOT know what they want.
I’m a competitive player and know what should happen.. but yeah generally speaking players are so brain dead and bias.. like my favorite deck is eldlich.. but for the sake of Frankenstein monster decks abusing my cards as an engine.. hit scarlet sanguine so the monkeys can stop the bs.. same goes for dragoon spam..
@@bloodarcher7841 i agree with you 100000%. I have had countless decks hit by the banlist because key pieces were being pieced out into meta decks. Or worse...key cards so expensive for no reason because of a frankensteined deck of 6 different engines lol
Of course it was a good era, the Eternal format had 4 tire 1 strategies, half a dozen rogue strategies and to top it off, even the most budget player could compete at the highest levels thanks to amazing releases like the Salad structure deck.
We need to add a new catagory. A "2-only" category. Decks can have these forbidden cards on this list but no more than 2 from the category. This solves the Needlefiber problem with tuners and the splashing of engines into decks aside pure variants
What set rotation? Yugioh doesn't have eternal formats like pkmn/mtg. Your 100 dollar chase cards will be printed into the ground after being artificially made scarce with only 1 highest rarity printing. Your 1000 ygo deck will be worth next to nothing if you aren't keeping up with the game all the time to know when to sell. Power creep is crazy in ygo.
I kinda agree I play Pkmn and YGO and set rotation are pretty good cause we have standard and expanded but with YGO one card gets banned it messes up your whole deck and you have to move to another deck. When it comes to Pkmn you have a WHOLE 9-10 months to use the same deck to top events and etc.
It's not about Banlists, it's about rules. As you mentioned, people want a longer, more strategic as well as (most importantly) interactive, back and forth duels... Banlist can't do that, but rule changes can (despite it would cause many growing pains).
I get very annoyed when I finally get good cards like Nadir Servant and people start saying “Ewww this card is too powerful and is going to get hit so you should sell it and shouldn’t have gotten the card in the first place.”
Good job Paul you explained it pretty well. I have and idea, it might be bad, but if Konami would make new cards to support older archetypes so those two or three new card will help the deck become a meta deck. That way we can cycle rather than just new cards equal meta. I don’t mean cards that are generic like Zeus but rather more family based cards like Paul said in his other video. An example would be next generation that supports two archetypes, some would same even three with Kuriboh, Heroes, and neo-spacians. This card accompanies not just three archetypes but even more due to all the sub archetypes of heroes. I would like more meta cards that can support multiple archetypes, family of archetypes like Paul said before.
I think a big thing is that players want banlists for the “health” of the game, rather than the actual strength or power of the game. Yes it’s true that scraps could compete a while ago by making vfd through hand traps, but people don’t want their favorite deck to devolve to simply making 1 big card. When there are multiple different options for different archetypes, rather than simply 1/2 best cards that win the game, people seem more happy. Another issue I do genuinely believe is turn length and turn count. It is not just a scrub belief of sentiment to not like to get combod on for 10 minutes and then simply lose. Most people don’t enjoy that. This is an aspect of the game that occurs and isn’t inherently bad, it does make a player base less okay with the power level of the deck because they simply lose after doing nothing for ten minutes (and this is coming from a combo player) If the game felt a bit more back and forth then people would probably be less hasty to just jump onto the combo hate train, even if combo decks had the exact same win rate
Paul I love this content the most from you! Discussion also considering your a player who has been around long enough to see many major changes and have perspective from different standpoints. There’s three major opinions when it comes to banlist, you have the meta player perspective, you have the rouge/casual player perspective, and you have the market watch perspective. All 3 matter when it come to banlist and the health of the game and secondary market changes. To be a meta player you must also be ahead of the curve with the market else you pay the price. Now you can’t always dodge major prices especially with new releases but you can also set aside a budget or see a deck in the ocg and get cards ahead of time before buyouts occur.
TNX 4 DIS! I love these kind of editorial videos because allow the viewer to have their own ideas. Seeing this one I just had the tought that: Imagine the powercreep, as unavoidable as it is, without a banlist? The new cards would have to be always bigger, crazier, new mechanics would be added more constantly... What would be the shelf life of YuGiOh without one? THANKS AGAIN FOR THIS VIDEOS, congrats from México.
The nice thing about yugioh is someone finds new tech since we have thousands of cards to choose from. But then if more people find out and use the new tech, the card gets hit. Examples: Cyber Angel Benten, Smoke Grenade of the Thief, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if Barrier Statue of the Stormwinds gets banned.
Problem clearly isn't "tech", it is simply the fact that the abuse is instigated in the first place. But of course, game design and money are two different things.
The barrier statues arent really the issue. In the case of stormwinds, its the simorgh link, but with cards like ash (if you know the big windy bird is coming and hung on to the ash), nib on the link summon, DRNM, etc, there are plenty of main/commonly sided answers to that. But i do get what you're saying.
@@warriorofgod2700 you could use statuses or dyna with mirror moon shield than use mirror force cards, Solomon cards and dark bribe. I use a deck like this on Legecy of the duelist Link Evolution or at my college and people forfeit or rage quit because they can't special summon specially if two different statues are on the field to lock out the extra deck or special summons from hand or deck. I think stormhold and torrent should get hit. Most people don't use wind or water monsters.
We need a combo ban list. A banlist that doesn´t prohibits the use of cards in their entirety. A banlist that just prohibits playing certain combinations of two or more cards in the same deck. For example Needlefiver + Glowup bulb.
Too many combos and interactions. If a direct combo gets banned then something similar will pop up soon enough. The card pool being so vast makes it very hard to hit certain interactions without actually hitting the cards themselves
Yeah ok but imagine for example banning the use of Winda + Eclessia. The pure shaddoll deck will still be alive and we would have fixed one of the most problematic decks of the current format.
@@Mark-bc1ej No, no. Let me explain my point. With this i don't want normal banlist to disappear i just want this "banned combos" to be included in the normal banlist. There are soma cards that are in the banlist bcause how stupid they are by itself.
13:30. If konami wants slow down the meta game or make games be more back and forth, they should either make more cards that can blow out "unbreakable boards" or make back row decks more spammable and recursive in the way combo decks are.
Yeah another issue is, I’ve played lots of rouge decks where a main card of my deck gets hit because a meta strategy is abusing it, like speedroid terrortop and Lunalight tiger. But what can you do 🤷♂️
I don’t appreciate when ban lists are updated so we are forced to use the newer cards. Mind Control, Pankratops, etc getting hit so we use the new going second cards
But then how would they push new product without set rotation? Sure, going from power creep to power VROOOOM, but then you're still forced to do the newer stuff because VROOOM
As a vanguard player I really appreciate how vanguard has it's ban lists, they go in with the motto of trying to hit as few cards as possible, so you don't see them banning decks just so that they can sell you whatever new set is coming out (they do it with power creep). Another thing I super appreciate is the that vanguard has choice restricts in it's ban lists, a choice restrict is where if two cards are choice restricted you can play one or the other in a deck but you can't play them both at the same time, this lets you still play cards that aren't inherently broken on their own and gets rid of the degen combos (of course degen cards still get banned, but it's nice that you don't have to completely kill a card if it's not inherently broken)
Everyone should agree that miragstallio doesn't belong in the ban list, it locks you into only using fires and only lets you summon 1 archetype specific card from the deck. I can understand limiting it, but it by no means belongs in the ban list and no one can disagree with that.
The thought-process-patchnote-idea is cool, i would really like it. Also i want to add to your points, that for many players (and formats as u mentioned in form of the eternal format) the new sets cant refresh the game enough. So the banlist can make the game fresh for the players and hype them a lot, but hitting "problematic" cards isnt the only way to do that. Bringing back f.e. blaster and/or denglong would hype me a lot, cause then i would try out new decks/combos etc.. And there are a lot of cards they could try out at 1 that are banned/try out at 2 that are limited.
My man....Too bad tryhards at locals and any other strictly follow it...I mean yeah, "rules are rules" but they ain't fun.....So only for casual play sadly
I honestly think that we should get a separated ban list, call it a staple/generic card ban list, where they use the system like in Duel Links (If a card is at 1 you can only use one card from the limited list, if the card is at 2 you can only use two cards from the semi-limited list). For example if you put every piece of the Dragoon engine at 1 on this list you can’t use REF or Verte to generically make Dragoon. Certain handtraps could go on this list to avoid that people use every powerful hand trap in the same deck. Of course for most cards we should just use the current ban list, but this could be a solution to balance the game better.
Ban list sucks. Not everyone has work in the pandemic. You spend money to get the best deck as possible. After few months, ban list comes up, and you have to spend money on new deck because yours is not playable anymore.
Player input is not the key thing they should or even need to take into account 2:03 . Results has always been what has gotten hit if something is winning all the time for example 12 out of top 16 is the same deck then that deck will and should get hit.Honestly look at some of the result for competitive meta game currently it's the most diverse it's been in ages. dragons and alister need hit but honestly not by much. Also they need to sell the next sets and this is a way of controlling the power creep of the game.
The problem with the invoked engine is you can literally splash it into any deck and it would be semi-viable (probably exaggerating a bit, but you get the picture).
Trash players will always complain in every format. No matter how healthy or unhealthy a format is. It’s a never-ending cycle. If a deck like ABC becomes the best deck of the format, people will complain about Union Hangar or Dragon Buster being too much at 3 lmao
Which is also just why I'm glad the yugioh fanbase doesn't have control over the banlist, Duel Links included, because especially right now lots of people hate Shooting Star players, and I know for a fact if people had their way they'd make it into Shiranui aka limiting or banning lots of the important cards for that deck, which ah it's not even top tier, the meta is completely different, sure it's another synchro deck but still Shooting Star isn't on it, and the decks have tons of weak points, but nah lots of hate for it which I know would go into getting it messed up by the banlist If the players had a choice, because people be biased, a company that doesn't play but watches and isn't biased like normal is exactly who should control the banlist, not little timmy who can't just adapt and overcome that one deck they keep losing to
Is there any kind of consistency on what determines if a card goes to 2/1/banned? Is it pretty much what konami seems to "feel" they should be or is there some kind of logical thorough-line, like strong search cards always being at 1?
It's tricky because it can be difficult to tell which cards are OP and inherently a problem, versus ones that only appear broken because they work very well against current strategies and then once those change, suddenly those cards are not an issue and I do think for something to be banned, it should be because it actually breaks the game and forces the meta to form around it versus cards that are overpowered because the current meta does not counter it, because sometimes those cards are the reason the meta shifts and new decks and cards find relevance. No one wants the same meta decks to just work best forever.
Perhaps during the "balanced" times when we don't "need" a banlist Konami can experiment by releasing something from the list. See how it does in modern times. There are some cards that have been on the list for a decade or more that could maybe come back without hurting too much. And if it does. Put it back like they did with Smatch Steal
Really stupid question, When there's a new banlist does the previous one still have affect? like if a hero card ban before but the new one doesn't state that, does it count?
I would like to see a trial of a duel links style banlist. In the you can have up to 2 out of all the semi limited rather than 2 of each. It would cut the list massively in terms of actual bans.
I don't appreciate how everyone views combo, there are fair combo decks, but the fixes to the broken combo decks always hurts the fair ones too, and hurting fair combo decks make the format less diverse, and I don't mean by deck name, but in regards to Control, Mid-Range, and Combo, all 3 forms should exist every format in at least 2 decks for each category. This gives players a bigger spectrum of deck options to play, so the best way to keep it like that is to hit combo in such a way that doesn't always make the op combo decks still good while the fair ones weaker and I feel Called by the Grave to 1 Actually helped with that (and also Linkross getting Banned). With called by at 1, all combo is checked and you need to have the extenders to push past those disruptions, also with the advent of more powerful go-2nd cards, then the op combo decks have less chance of being op, and even though Dragon Link is everywhere and can extend past disruptions and not die to go-2nd cards, it is still a relatively fair combo deck now after all the older op cards/combos have been hit/banned.
My gripe is things that overstayed their welcome (like Invoked) or too many generic cards that'll eventually stack a bigger issue into the game because they're just that versatile for a lot of decks and may either ruin an archetype or show what a deck in itself can really do (like Calamities in Virtual World). I get that problems will always be a factor into the game, that I can accept, but it does go along with how things can become rather stale since I think another issue is the sets that aren't being a real hit like BLVO and LIOV, so I do have to say this too is on Konami's poor establishments.
Something I don't get about the Ban list is: If a card can be fixed with a hard once per turn errata, then why not ban it for a format or two, do the errata the take it off the ban list?
Or better yet. Figure that stuff out in R&D before they release it. Honestly, i think konami should bring in maybe the top 25 duelists as testers for certain cards and give them a couple of weeks to test things, come up with player brain stuff, then work it out until its balanced or "fair". If a catd gets released and the masses figure out a way to break a card or cards that the pros missed, more power to the card
You asked what I would like to see, I will answer Banned: Striker Dragon: Striker Dragon, and by extension Boot Sector Launch allows the deck insane amounts of recursion. Tri-Brugade Revolt: Yet another version of "Return from the Different Dimension" combined with "Soul Charge" in Spell Speed 2 form. Searchable off of Bearbrumm due to Lightning Overdrive. Cyber Angel Benten: Not once per turn. Allows Drytron insane amounts of consistency even at 1 copy. Red-Eyes Dark Dragoon: Yes, I'm saying it. With a payoff this good, this card can create a design philosophy issue anytime new generic fusion support gets introduced into the game. Limited: Tri-Brigade Fraktall: This is the best main deck Tri-Brigade card. This is the card that sets the entire engine into motion, and like Misc, gets searched by about 2/3s of the deck. Guardragon Elpy: This card was not the problem everyone thought it was. Hieratic Seal of Heavenly Spheres: This card is an Elpy that has built in disruption Phantom Knights of Torn Scales: This card allows Phantom Knights a lot of extension they wouldn't normally have. Bring this one down to 1 to lower the power ceiling of the deck some. Eva: Eva is a good card made problematic by Drytrons dropping Herald of Perfection/Ultimateness and allowing this card to overstack the hand to become a game of "better have it." (referring to Dark Ruler No More and/or Forbidden Droplet) Lunalight Tiger: This is more of a personal choice than one that I can give a solid opinion for. Don't give this one a very serious look at. Sky Striker Ace - Kagari: Since Sky Striker Mobilize - Engage! is legal, this card should not be unlimited. Semi-Limited: No changes, move along. Unlimited: Yata-Garasu: Card will not do anything. Double Iris Magician: Card will not do anything at 3 that it can't at 2.
If we let the players pick the cards, Dragoon would've been hit like, a week out of the tin. People still plead for it to get banned, when at the end of the day, it doesn't need to be, and won't fix the game getting banned.
They should only let good players decide. Those who play meta and/or at least competetive rogue. Those with multiple tops or high rated on DB. Those players know Dragoon is a bad card
@@shakeweller idk about that. Jesse Cotton was saying Halq should be banned and handtraps ruin yugioh since the Adamancipator format. I agree with him, but these decisions should always be left to the company at the end of the day. Scrubs don't need another reason to deify pro players anyway either.
could i ask, which anime series do you guys think are probably closest to resembling real world gameplay and not you know... summon time wizard and attack for game..?
I personally want two minor changes to the banlist 1. After they have decided on a release date (and after they have passed the “no sooner than” date) to give 1 week of forewarning that a banlist will drop in a week’s time. If you are uncertain of purchasing or selling cards for the current meta you can make changes accordingly instead of going out to buy cards to find they’re banned the next day. 2. To treat the banlist like most games treat patch notes. Say what is getting hit, then give us an explanation as to why your balance team believed it to be necessary, so people can understand the list more thoroughly instead of “Here you go hope your deck still functions.” Little notes like “To curtail some power from X deck, we’re limiting their consistency on their extenders” or “This card has become over represented (give a number of what % of top decks played it) and is affecting the game in a negative way, so we are removing it from the competitive format until further notice.”
The banlist is simply there to limit cards/decks that are TOO consistent. It’s all about allowing variety and balance. Most players truly can’t make those calls. Me included. ALOT of good points were made in this video. The fact that the banlist doesn’t make you a better player. How people are needlessly adamant about a banlist releasing out of habit, even though the game state is fine. Cards shouldn’t be hit because they’re used frequently or they disrupt your personal strategy. How old cards sometimes need to be hit so that new cards and strategies can thrive. Great video!
I have an idea that won't happen simply because it would require more effort on the part of Konami. I would recommend a fourth category on the banlist called the "special cases" list. Cards on this list can be played but only in specific/dedicated decks and strategies. For example, you could bring back Heavymetalfoes Electrumite but restrict it to only metalfoes only decks devoid of any outside archetype cards. You could bring back Knightmare Mermaid and Knightmare Goblin but restrict them to only the world legacy family of archetypes. You could bring back Fairy Tail Snow but restrict it to fairy tail, charmer and/or spellcaster only decks. I think a move like that would be worth a try but I don't think Konami would do it.
New Master Rule example you can only special summon 3 times max in a turn. and just ban all cards that are non targetable/immune to everything and stop making those kinds of cards.
I think it would be a good idea for Konami to start using something called "Choice Restrictions" like Cardfight Vanguard does. Basically, what a choice restriction is is when two or more cards get put a type of restriction like limited, semi-limited and banned. If two or more cards become choice restricted, you are allowed to (usually) have 1-3 copies of 1 of the choice restricted cards, but you are not able to play the other card in the same deck and vice versa. Let's say for example, Verte Anaconda and Dragoon become choice restricted. In which case, you are able to have Verte, but not Dragoon in the same deck and vice versa. I say this in order to highlight, in my opinion, one of the problems of the yugioh banlist. Let's go back to that Verte anaconda and Dragoon example. A ton of meta decks are able to make verte, and therefore, make dragoon with ease, so most people would think that the best move for konami to make to address this problem is to just ban either Dragoon or Verte. But what about decks that use anaconda, but not Dragoon(Most of the time). Good examples of these are Heroes, Cyber Dragon, Fluffals, ect. Mostly rouge decks. If Konami bans, let's say, Verte, then meta decks won't be able to play dragoon anymore, but by banning anaconda, rogue decks that did nothing wrong become significantly worse. There are so many cards and archetypes in the game right now, that if Konami bans even one of the most niche cards that a meta deck uses, somewhere, someone who plays rogue is balling they're eyes out because they've just lost they're one good extender. If Konami choice restricts Verte and Dragoon, Only decks that heavily rely on Verte to make Dragoon will be hit, but the rogue decks that weren't using Dragoon at all still get to keep they're good card making less people depressed about the banlist. I think this would be a nice change
Maybe another discussion topic is whether yugioh could implement a sealed/draft element into new sets? That’s how I feel magic has managed to last so long
I'm glad Konami doesn't listen to the players. Konami knows what (overpowering) new cards are coming out so they are the ones with the best insight on how to keep the game interesting and "moving". Banlist isn't necessarily a way to make the game "fair" because Yugioh was never meant to be a fair game. (People who want fairness should go and play chess) I think the current banlist is fine, we have so much variety in decks that do well both in meta and casually, even with having Zeus and Dragoon! (and we know they will get limited to 1 at some point)
I think konamy could make a survey with all the cards in the game and players can create thair own banlist. Then konamy will just see the result of the survey that will show the most card people want to ban or unban, but they eill not be forced to do what people want, they could just take inspiration like: "we as konamy want to ban this card to make money, but we also see that people want to ban/unban this other card, that does not influence the other card we want to hit so we could also do as the community suggest"
My biggest concern is that Konami is going against their own justification of making the banlist in the first place. Cards that are too strong to a point where they are in almost every deck or are harmful to the game. There have been soooo many examples of using the banlist to sell new cards, for examples to sell Kosmos or the big TOSS Kill list. I really really hate that. Also they bring back broken cards to sell new sets. They brought Rusty back to push the new PK support, Card Destruction with Dangers etc. i don't nessessarily have anything against those cards coming back, I simply hate the principle behind it. If Rusty is balanced enough to come back, bring it back NOW. If card destruction is balanced, bring it back NOW. That's how it's supposed to be. There are literally cards on the banlist that I'm 100% convinced will come off once certain decks get support and it makes me so sad because they could come off right NOW. Another point I have is that Konami sometimes doesn't even know their own meta. They hit a rogue deck (Drytron) extremely hard for no reason while not even touching a 1.5+ year old tier 1 deck (Dlink). They refuse to look at DB Rated which has the best players in the world on it and reliable data that don't get blurred by players who can't afford cards irl, and refuse to use it. It's so free data and they just pretend it doesn't exist. Real life data is never a reliable tool since many players especially in 3rd world countries make a weaker deck more popular because of card prices and literally blur the balance. Dragoon is a prime example. Dragoon.... SUCKS. It's a rogue deck boss monster. Why do so many players in locals complain about it? Well the best outs are 120 and 100 Euros. GG. Ban Dragoon!!!! 111 (not....) They really need to care more about the games integrity and the conservation of the balance. Edit: how could I forget... They are willing to ban 4-5 cards that are in some cases mediocre just so a new card can exist. Hail all mighty needlefiber. I just don't get it. Or the lyralisc fusion...
TCG by a country mile. Meta cards are usually printed in 2-3 rarities of the same booster set. You'll have a Starlight, Secret, Ultra, and Super Lightning Storm in the same 1 OCG Booster Box vs how the TCG only makes the 1 Starlight and 1 Secret
I know people tend not to like pendulums but odd-eyes is my favorite pendulum archetype. And believe me I get why they have to be nerfed to a degree but I miss playing cards like Astrograph, Skullcrobat joker, Supreme king starving venom (just for a generic beater I don’t do that weird nightingale combo), having electrumite as a link option. I feel like these cards can come back bc of pendulums being restricted by links. Sure I can use these are among friends who are cool with it and know that I won’t do a degenerate strat but I miss playing these normally at like a cardshop without someone saying like “hey this is banned”.
I think that Konami does take player opinions on ban lists. But not in the sense of asking but going based off what people are playing. There are some very strange cards that have ended up on the ban list because of player innovation.
A nerf errata would help answer some of those issues, they should have a dedicated reprint set(s) focusing nerf errata of either the current problematic cards or getting card off the banlist.
Pot of Greed to 1-why not, for the memes and laughs, draw 2, it's POG and can clutch a victory Monkey Board, Joker and Electrumite to 1-just LET pendulums become tier 2 or 1 for one format, it's about the time, also I feel bad for Trif without Electrumite ;( Ban Dragoon and Zeus-honestly tired of those cards, just ban them for one format, like seriously Called By The Grave back to 3-come on, you already sold all the handtraps enough, let's be real here Destiny Hero Malicious to 3-literally only card on the semi limited, at 3 it won't make Heroes or anything else Tier 8 unbeatable top deck, this ain't 2008/2009 anymore Unlimit all Salamangreat cards because even with them, deck is only great rogue, it ain't broken OP Idk what else, just do all this in one ban list and just see what goes...If it's gonna be THAT bad, just put a "emergency banlist" after like 2 weeks aka just update the banlist website, like, is that so hard? If people discover new giga broken strats with these unbanned cards then just bring them back to the banlist, really simple 11:12 Exactly why I don't want Elpy to be banned because new more OP cards will come out, Elpy will be forgotten and will stay on the banlist, powercreeped by other more OP cards....Rather, gives us tools to deal with it and other decks in terms of *CHEAP COMMON AND RARE CARDS AND NOT SUPER SHORT PRINTED SECRET RARES THAT COST AN ARM AND A LEG PER ONE COPY, JESUS CHRIST*
I honestly think out of all the banned monsters on the ban list the one that should come off is Joker. I've actually had this discussion multiple times and i can't find one that doesn't deserve to be on there as much as it. He might search 3 archetypes but he only searches on normal summon. Stratos searches 4 archetypes on normal or special summon. I personally managed to get 4 searches with him in one turn. Lets not forget if they made a main deck monster for each extra deck HERO type Stratos would then be able to search 8 Archetypes. 7 if you don't want to count the win con effect Pit Boss guy. He also lets you destroy spells and traps equal to the number of HEROs you control except him. Compared to that i always wonder: how did Stratos get unbanned before Joker? The only reasons i could come up with is Konami hates Pendulums (like Paul said in a previous video) and know they'll make more money with Stratos.
I still say there should be no ban list at all. If players are worried about problematic cards/combos then that forces them structure their main and side decks around either their own strengths or counter plays. That’s how I’ve felt since I started playing this game 20 years ago. More recently I’ve said to myself; I feel like hand traps and quick effects ruined game play but again, if nothing is banned then it forces us to always stay sharp and be on our toes. On a side note, I took a screen video while watching Sam’s reaction to the September 2020 list. You’ve gotta check it out, it’s hilarious
Idk what about Pot of Greed? If cards like that are legal, every deck would play it. It might be a little hyperbolic to say this, but if all cards were legal, then every competitive deck would be nearly identical once the player base has collectively "figured out" what the best deck is. Whenever you have a scenario in which every competitive deck is running a given card, regardless of the deck, then that's a good sign that the card is a problem. A card like Pot of Extravagance is still legal because not EVERY deck runs it, it is in some competitive decks, but not ALL competitive decks, because it doesn't work well in many decks. Pot of Greed is good in every deck. I think unbanning cards like Greed would REALLY reduce the number of viable decks, most likely down to one meta deck that is the only deck to win tournaments. The issue I just mentioned is very minor compared to the REAL problem with no banlist. If we unban every card, that would create a format where cards that were never legal at the same time WILL BE, and would inevitably result in the most consistent FTK decks ever seen. Even the best FTK decks seen in tournament play had to manage without cards that were banned at the time or those that had yet to be released. If you throw all those broken cards together into one format and unban all of them, every deck would be an FTK deck. Forget setting up "negates". Every player's goal would be going first and winning the duel on turn 1. These decks would be so consistent at successfully FTKing, that whoever wins the die roll will win the match every time. You might as well not bother playing the game, just scoop as soon as your opponent wins the die roll. Doesn't sound very fun.
I understand the point you’re making but Konami is still printing new cards. Unbanning every card will without a doubt give way to some degree of what you are saying. But as long as new cards keep getting introduced then the game will keep changing. Even if you unban something like pot of greed and everyone starts using it again, cards already exist and can still be released to combat it. Or Konami can take banned cards and errata them like they’ve been doing. I just think it’s dumb that cards become illegal just because they saw enough meta play by enough people during one format. It’s not like there aren’t strategies to stop FTK’s. It actually makes me very mad that games can be won in the first 2 turns but banned cards are not the cause of that. The real problem is the overemphasis on hand traps, quick effects, Omni negates, and unbreakable boards. I’m not saying we should go back to set one-pass but I feel like creating interruptions during your opponents turn outside of actual trap cards was a mistake
Banning cards means players will have to be the new sets. It also means that players will probably stop buying the older sets. When it comes to customer satisfaction banning a card will make some players happy, and other players angry. Balancing profits and player satisfaction is tricky business.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
“Ban lists are complicated”
Konami: “Ban/unban whatever makes us the most money”
Right??? If they cared about solving issues as they come.. yeah they probably wouldn’t make as much money.. but the player base may come together more.. 4 years of dragonlink nonsense..
@@bloodarcher7841 the only reliable ways to hit dragonlink are to power creep it or to ban half of the generic dragon support. I understand what you’re trying to say but dragonlink is definitely not a good example for it
@@KikiCatMeow Which sort of suggests that they've lost control of their game, does it not?
@@WavemasterAshi ...not really? Unless “lose control of their game” means printing generic cards that help dragons, then yeah sure. The only reason there isn’t a “dragonlink” equivalent to spellcasters or aquas or some other type is because konami purposely makes dragon support good, which naturally leads to spam strong decks like that. If reptiles had as much op support then they’d be hella unfair too. It’s less them losing control and more them allowing the game to be a breeding ground for this stuff, because it’s 100% intentional on their part
@@KikiCatMeow banning elpi and changing some efefcts to not generic would be fine. Also dont make generic negate monsters in the future PLEASE
konami: *releases banlist wishlist survey*
players: haha pot of greed to 3
To 3: destiny hero malicious.
To 0: all generic ED monsters that have negation effects, disruption effects, and mass removal effects.
Format solved!👍😁
@@baileydombroskie3046 Dragoon and Zeus....Problem solved, the rest are okay
@@PsychoKern zues isnt that bad honestly
@@baileydombroskie3046 ok so ban rhapsody in berserk?
@@baileydombroskie3046 okay nice idea. Chain summon limit have a nice format
Simple fix: ban **all** cards, except Mushroom Man.
Hmm what about Lilttle D?
And "Mild Turkey".
And Mushroom Man #2
And frog the jam!
Ban watapan
Honestly the "Big 4 Metas" are my favorite, I really enjoyed 2019. It meant that while the big bois were able to romp around in tier 1, the tier 2's and the rogues could know well enough what to build for in tournaments, what tech to run, et cetera.
Banlists follow the golden rule that all of entertainment follows - You can't please everyone. Most people don't realize this because they've never had to sit on the receiving end of people insulting everything they do.
The only thing players need to be doing about banlists is adapting their decks to what the banlist does as well as be smart enough to understand what has a target on its back.
I think the demand for banlists comes from the imaginary utopia-esque idea that if you ban X cards that all of a sudden that would create a perfect harmony where there are 12 tier 1 decks and 20 tier 2 decks. That will never happen regardless of what any banlist ever does because the formation of a meta inherently comes from the fact that people gravitate towards what's "good" in PvP games. If you're competitive you will take any edge or advantage you can get, and there are no decks that are exactly equal in power except a direct mirror match.
There will never be equal representation because the community is not equally interested in all decks & archetypes.
Yep. You are completely correct.
A good example is how my ban list suggestions differ from say MBTs
I often suggest cards that would either restrict either future card design, by forcing power creep, or cards that are so powerful, that even decent to good alternatives wouldn’t see play.
While MBT suggests hits based on simply based on how the current META would be impacted.
This suggesting cards be fried that would be awful to play against as long as they aren’t going to be META.
This is why I say that Savage dragon and Apolusa should be banned, while he would never even touch them.
But he suggested Cyber Jar to be freed, which I wouldn’t even joke about
@@frankwest5388 nah, Apollusa? I can almost see Savage, but Apollusa should never be banned. It isn't so oppressive that it ruins the game, and cards are allowed to be good.
@@darkanddolly16 2 Things
A: Apollusa can easily stop your turn immediatly, if you dont have a spell to deal with her or imperm.
B: My main problem with her, is that she powercreeps too much. Any monster that doesnt have multiple monster negations, are just not worth it with her in the game.
Crystal Wing? Worse than her.
Any other Link 4 that isnt just an OTK enabler? Not worth ending on. Maybe used as an extender, but otherwise bad.
This means that she ruins future game design and makes otherwise perfectly fine cards unviable. It is basically impossible to justify making almost anything else, if you could just make her, since she is that generic.
Avramax, Borreload Dragon, Borrelguard and many other perfectly fine and powerful cards are not worth it due to her.
You dont even have to invest much into her. Just use a left over combo Link monster and anything else.
Also non OPT negates should not be a thing on an easily accesible extra deck card. LADD makes you at least dedicate your game state to her and is a double edged blade.
@@frankwest5388 I have to disagree. Apollusa may end the turn of a bad deck, but it's very easy to out Apollusa. Her negates being tied to her ATK also make her not impossible to beat over when the average amount of negates you'll have on her are 2-3. She's also once per chain. Avermax alone can be impossible for some decks to beat, doesn't make him a problem card. As I said, strong cards are allowed to be strong when there are reasonable outs to it. As long as the game doesn't become degenerate it'll be fine, but there's no need to drag it down to Fortune Fairy level.
@@darkanddolly16 its usually appolusa plus the rest of the board that's a problem. It's often the difference between having a strong and a weak end board for decks, with people needing board breaking cards to deal with it.
Another thing is it being around makes Nibiru weaker in the format. I like Nibiru as a card, it has a lot of counter play, and I acknowledge it's only the strong hands that are able to appolusa and still so things for decks. But I think the game would be better without that option because it forces combo decks to make more trade offs to play around nib.
Hey, y'all remember last year when there was absolutely nothing going on because of- well, you know, and people were still clamoring for an updated banlist even though there was no need for one, so Konami just unbanned a card or two and those same people got mad and asked why did Konami even update the banlist? That was funny.
It was. Yu-Gi-Oh players don't make sense on stuff like this.
No need for one? Blockdragon and auroadon combos were all over the place.
@@bl00by_ What I meant is there were no tournaments or competitive play whatsoever (online simulators don't count) so there was no point of a banlist.
@@BmanTheChamp true but just because there’s no events shouldn’t mean the Banlist should not happen.. because if that’s the case, when events started again, there’d be a nightmare of shit to deal with.
That banlist was freaking hilarious
I think konami should take more risks with the unbanning of cards, a few times card stay banned for way too long, they come back and they're just totally irrelevant...
They should takes risks and "test the waters" by unbanning some cards that could just maybe come off the list, just to see what happens for a format, if they are truly broken and become a problem just put them back on the banlist, but if not great! they discovered more cards that can be released from the banlist early.
That's a pretty good idea, lots of cards that are on the list have counters to them now, or at least ways to deal with them.
Even if its within a category for "tentatively unrestricted" cards, so that nobody would be surprised if they were immediately put back on the list within a couple weeks.
I kind of want colossus again, at least to one.There are much more broken cards now.
They tried that with snatch steal apparently at some point
We need bigger and more of "risk taking" banlists....Like jsut ban or limit or unlimit over 10 cards, not 2 or 3.....Then emergency banlist after 2 weeks to either revert the changes or reduce them.....Just change the data on the website based on the players suggestions and complains, replays and newly discovered "meta breaking giga OP new strats tier 0" stuff people come up with
"Konami has balanced the ban list for years"
The most controversial take in this video.
Remember when Saryuja Skull Dread was “ban this sick filth” in 2018 and now its “I had a spot in my Extra Deck and sometimes need to fix my hand I guess”
Well it DID enable a lot of BS and, in fact, still does. Slash Draw is on the list solely because SkullD deep-draw is, like, a thing.
Think about it this way. Would you rather have a ban list or a set rotation every 18 months? A set rotation would be worse, fellas.
I play Yugioh specifically because it has no set rotation. I build new decks with the new sets, but I appreciate that my favorite deck (Six Sams) will always be something I can take to a locals to FTK or build a silly board the games my opponent doesn't topdeck Ash.
@@darkanddolly16 I played MTG for six years and it was so annoying. It was just a money pit scheme. And anyone who played just modern casually and not standard was looked down on as MTG players typically like to do as much as possible.
14:28 the OCG actually does this too. That means only the TCG doesn’t do it lol
Duel links also gives short explanations for bans/limits as well
Yeah but they are usually dogshit if you read them they literally explain nothing. This just shows how lazy konami is
At some point in the video you mentioned people’s attitude towards equalizer cards (Dark Ruler, Nibiru, Droplets, Lightning Storm, etc.). Potential video topic? I love these discussion videos a lot, and it’s always nice to listen without needing to watch.
Yeah from this video you can see it s better than other yugitubers that blindly follow the meta
He put forward good thought is an intelligent guy
I love the equalizer cards as a whole, price point.... well let's just say not so much
@@christopherbishop1950 price point wouldn't be so bad if konami just gave us the same reprints the ocg has like the evenly matched one.. I understand they have to get their products to sell though
The way I see it, equalizers are not fun, but they're a necessary evil. It's insanely frustrating to receive and not that gratifying to use either (though I'll admit that putting a Nibiru at the perfect time is just insanely satisfying, but most other are just not that interesting to use), but without them the game would devolve rapidly so they are important, I just wish they were a bit more fun to play with/against for the most part
@@sephikong8323 Equalizers are pretty justified. They exist so that people can minimize their whining over "overpowered boss monsters".
My problem with yugioh it’s that the game is too expensive. I remember when I was 22 and spent around 1000 on a Insector deck.
Then the deck got hit.
I lost all my money. I saw that I needed to spend another 1000 for a competitive deck.
Some of y’all are able to do it but I just realized I needed to spend my money on other things and start saving for my future.
Competitive decks only cost that much if your forking out on like a set of talents and droplets and going max rarity every time you build a deck 😂
@@thomaskey9688 not true.
I remember there are times a deck passed 1000 dollars just because all the cards in the extra deck are extremely hard to pull. Remember draccosack era? Like each extra deck monster during that time was around 100. Like 80 percent of the time meta cards are usually the rarest cards. There was no common Tour guide back when it released.
Trust me I would of gotten them.
Have you considered anti-meta? You cant have a good thing if you arent willing to pay the price, thats just how competition work.
If you dont play competitively then find people who are willing to play within your budget.
Recently discovered this channel, and found the content really good even though I haven't touched YGO in almost fifteen years.
An interesting possible take from an outsider is that YGO could benefit from the addition of more formats, such as a Standard format that only takes certain sets into account (that have been released within a certain timeframe). This allows newer sets that may be weaker than older ones the opportunity to shine due to being an environment with a lower overall power.
This could also result in more varying gameplay environments and give Konami more design space to work with as when they're designing for Standard, they just need to worry about the sets that it will be in Standard with as opposed to the entirety of YGO's currently-legal cardlist. This could also potentially slow down power creep a bit, since they can opt to wind down power levels over a certain season.
Several card games have already adopted this style with some degrees of success such as Hearthstone, Shadowverse, and MTG.
Just unban everything so we can figure out the true tier 0 deck
Just surrender before victory dragon attacks
didn't they do that on the OCG and hand control zoo with bunch of HT won out of all things
In theory, a 40 card orcust variant would be fucking busted
Deep Draw Exodia FTK. Until your opponent drops a Droll.
Gumblar handloop and many ftks like pend ftk or the tempest magician ftk to name some.
People who say Konami should take player input have clearly never spoken to Yugioh players about the banlist, they have some of the most ludicrous ideas. A few custom banlist I’ve seen: all handtraps banned, all floodgates banned, all ED monster that have an Omni negate banned, etc, etc. The players absolutely do NOT know what they want.
Not all ppl are like that. For example you show self awareness here. They are so crazed because konami ignores is all the time.
I’m a competitive player and know what should happen.. but yeah generally speaking players are so brain dead and bias.. like my favorite deck is eldlich.. but for the sake of Frankenstein monster decks abusing my cards as an engine.. hit scarlet sanguine so the monkeys can stop the bs.. same goes for dragoon spam..
@@bloodarcher7841 i agree with you 100000%. I have had countless decks hit by the banlist because key pieces were being pieced out into meta decks. Or worse...key cards so expensive for no reason because of a frankensteined deck of 6 different engines lol
I actually liked the sky striker, orcust, salad, and thunder dragon era
I am still waiting for salaman unlimits :(
I do want the full orcust core back
Of course it was a good era, the Eternal format had 4 tire 1 strategies, half a dozen rogue strategies and to top it off, even the most budget player could compete at the highest levels thanks to amazing releases like the Salad structure deck.
I still want harp, electrum and maybe even engage back (or atleast multirole back to 3)...
Still waiting for Colossus to 1.
We need to add a new catagory. A "2-only" category. Decks can have these forbidden cards on this list but no more than 2 from the category. This solves the Needlefiber problem with tuners and the splashing of engines into decks aside pure variants
This banlist format is in the mobile game Duel Links. Example, you can only use up to two semi-limited cards within the semi-limited list.
@@rangeless exactly. It can be implemented in TCG by just followinf Duel Links.
I think Konami should experiment with unbanning more often in my eyes.
At the end of the day I’ll take a ban list over a set rotation any day!
Don't worry...you'll just have de facto set rotation as stuff gets power crept, and if something that's old SHOULD become good, they'll just ban that.
What set rotation? Yugioh doesn't have eternal formats like pkmn/mtg.
Your 100 dollar chase cards will be printed into the ground after being artificially made scarce with only 1 highest rarity printing. Your 1000 ygo deck will be worth next to nothing if you aren't keeping up with the game all the time to know when to sell. Power creep is crazy in ygo.
@@PAGameRoom this guy gets it. I agree with this statement fully. 1000 deck to a 100 deck.
I respectfully disagree
I kinda agree I play Pkmn and YGO and set rotation are pretty good cause we have standard and expanded but with YGO one card gets banned it messes up your whole deck and you have to move to another deck. When it comes to Pkmn you have a WHOLE 9-10 months to use the same deck to top events and etc.
There was a brief time they posted information write ups on banlist updates. People still got pissed at their reasoning so they stopped.
It's not about Banlists, it's about rules. As you mentioned, people want a longer, more strategic as well as (most importantly) interactive, back and forth duels... Banlist can't do that, but rule changes can (despite it would cause many growing pains).
I get very annoyed when I finally get good cards like Nadir Servant and people start saying “Ewww this card is too powerful and is going to get hit so you should sell it and shouldn’t have gotten the card in the first place.”
People will always complain relative to their biases.
Good job Paul you explained it pretty well. I have and idea, it might be bad, but if Konami would make new cards to support older archetypes so those two or three new card will help the deck become a meta deck. That way we can cycle rather than just new cards equal meta. I don’t mean cards that are generic like Zeus but rather more family based cards like Paul said in his other video. An example would be next generation that supports two archetypes, some would same even three with Kuriboh, Heroes, and neo-spacians.
This card accompanies not just three archetypes but even more due to all the sub archetypes of heroes. I would like more meta cards that can support multiple archetypes, family of archetypes like Paul said before.
I think a big thing is that players want banlists for the “health” of the game, rather than the actual strength or power of the game. Yes it’s true that scraps could compete a while ago by making vfd through hand traps, but people don’t want their favorite deck to devolve to simply making 1 big card.
When there are multiple different options for different archetypes, rather than simply 1/2 best cards that win the game, people seem more happy.
Another issue I do genuinely believe is turn length and turn count.
It is not just a scrub belief of sentiment to not like to get combod on for 10 minutes and then simply lose. Most people don’t enjoy that. This is an aspect of the game that occurs and isn’t inherently bad, it does make a player base less okay with the power level of the deck because they simply lose after doing nothing for ten minutes (and this is coming from a combo player)
If the game felt a bit more back and forth then people would probably be less hasty to just jump onto the combo hate train, even if combo decks had the exact same win rate
I just want Astrograph and/or Electrumite to 1. Gives pendulum a fighting Chance
I real enjoy waiting for these videos to come out.
Paul I love this content the most from you! Discussion also considering your a player who has been around long enough to see many major changes and have perspective from different standpoints. There’s three major opinions when it comes to banlist, you have the meta player perspective, you have the rouge/casual player perspective, and you have the market watch perspective. All 3 matter when it come to banlist and the health of the game and secondary market changes. To be a meta player you must also be ahead of the curve with the market else you pay the price. Now you can’t always dodge major prices especially with new releases but you can also set aside a budget or see a deck in the ocg and get cards ahead of time before buyouts occur.
TNX 4 DIS! I love these kind of editorial videos because allow the viewer to have their own ideas. Seeing this one I just had the tought that:
Imagine the powercreep, as unavoidable as it is, without a banlist? The new cards would have to be always bigger, crazier, new mechanics would be added more constantly... What would be the shelf life of YuGiOh without one? THANKS AGAIN FOR THIS VIDEOS, congrats from México.
the pokemon tgc gives reasons when that card is banned in exspanded or standart
The nice thing about yugioh is someone finds new tech since we have thousands of cards to choose from.
But then if more people find out and use the new tech, the card gets hit.
Examples: Cyber Angel Benten, Smoke Grenade of the Thief, etc.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Barrier Statue of the Stormwinds gets banned.
Problem clearly isn't "tech", it is simply the fact that the abuse is instigated in the first place. But of course, game design and money are two different things.
The barrier statues arent really the issue. In the case of stormwinds, its the simorgh link, but with cards like ash (if you know the big windy bird is coming and hung on to the ash), nib on the link summon, DRNM, etc, there are plenty of main/commonly sided answers to that. But i do get what you're saying.
@@warriorofgod2700 you could use statuses or dyna with mirror moon shield than use mirror force cards, Solomon cards and dark bribe. I use a deck like this on Legecy of the duelist Link Evolution or at my college and people forfeit or rage quit because they can't special summon specially if two different statues are on the field to lock out the extra deck or special summons from hand or deck. I think stormhold and torrent should get hit. Most people don't use wind or water monsters.
there are so many cards that sit on the banlist that have absolutely no logical reason to be on there. most of them are pendulum cards.
Servant of Endymion
I think performapal monkeyboard should come back to 1 at least
Definetly, didn't do anything wrong
Yea bro for real
Nah bro electrum should vome back.
@@bl00by_ both.. lmao
Monkey board can come back to 3 and Pendulums will still suck. Joker to 3 as well.
We need a combo ban list. A banlist that doesn´t prohibits the use of cards in their entirety. A banlist that just prohibits playing certain combinations of two or more cards in the same deck. For example Needlefiver + Glowup bulb.
Similar to Duel Links. Would be interesting but the problem is the TCG card pool is way bigger and unrestricted in comparison with that of DL
Too many combos and interactions. If a direct combo gets banned then something similar will pop up soon enough. The card pool being so vast makes it very hard to hit certain interactions without actually hitting the cards themselves
Yeah ok but imagine for example banning the use of Winda + Eclessia. The pure shaddoll deck will still be alive and we would have fixed one of the most problematic decks of the current format.
@@truekingofallgeneraiders yhe thing is if they did this for 100+ cards it would make the game and banlist really hard to follow, so that doesn't work
@@Mark-bc1ej No, no. Let me explain my point. With this i don't want normal banlist to disappear i just want this "banned combos" to be included in the normal banlist. There are soma cards that are in the banlist bcause how stupid they are by itself.
All I really want is Astrograph back to at least 1. Not 3, I know how good it is, but I think 1 would be fine.
well no I wish pendulum was just forgoten about and no cards released either new or old ban list cards
Dude if you keep electrumite banned ,astro can go to 5 and no pendulum will see any play
13:30. If konami wants slow down the meta game or make games be more back and forth, they should either make more cards that can blow out "unbreakable boards" or make back row decks more spammable and recursive in the way combo decks are.
Yeah another issue is, I’ve played lots of rouge decks where a main card of my deck gets hit because a meta strategy is abusing it, like speedroid terrortop and Lunalight tiger. But what can you do 🤷♂️
For Terrortop they needed to limit it to only summon Wind attribute monsters for the rest of the turn
Or [Tuner].
rogue* Edit: totally agree with ya tho
Benten.
@@xan1242 Yeah, dirty Drytrons......While pure Cyber Angel players can't do anything about it :(
I don’t appreciate when ban lists are updated so we are forced to use the newer cards. Mind Control, Pankratops, etc getting hit so we use the new going second cards
Called by the Grave :(
But then how would they push new product without set rotation? Sure, going from power creep to power VROOOOM, but then you're still forced to do the newer stuff because VROOOM
I mean Mind Control and Pankratops were more than strong enough to warrant going to 1 anyway, but yeah that can be annoying
@@ProBAgar agreed.
*cough* Dinos, and Invoked *cough*
As a vanguard player I really appreciate how vanguard has it's ban lists, they go in with the motto of trying to hit as few cards as possible, so you don't see them banning decks just so that they can sell you whatever new set is coming out (they do it with power creep).
Another thing I super appreciate is the that vanguard has choice restricts in it's ban lists, a choice restrict is where if two cards are choice restricted you can play one or the other in a deck but you can't play them both at the same time, this lets you still play cards that aren't inherently broken on their own and gets rid of the degen combos (of course degen cards still get banned, but it's nice that you don't have to completely kill a card if it's not inherently broken)
Everyone should agree that miragstallio doesn't belong in the ban list, it locks you into only using fires and only lets you summon 1 archetype specific card from the deck. I can understand limiting it, but it by no means belongs in the ban list and no one can disagree with that.
banlists are indeed complicated
Kagemusha of The Blue Flame needs to be banned!
The thought-process-patchnote-idea is cool, i would really like it. Also i want to add to your points, that for many players (and formats as u mentioned in form of the eternal format) the new sets cant refresh the game enough. So the banlist can make the game fresh for the players and hype them a lot, but hitting "problematic" cards isnt the only way to do that. Bringing back f.e. blaster and/or denglong would hype me a lot, cause then i would try out new decks/combos etc.. And there are a lot of cards they could try out at 1 that are banned/try out at 2 that are limited.
I personally think the most fun part about a banlist is seeing what comes off of it.
Tiger is at 3 in the ocg 😤
I’ve never followed the ban list in my entire life. If I wanna run Pot of Greed I’m gonna
My man....Too bad tryhards at locals and any other strictly follow it...I mean yeah, "rules are rules" but they ain't fun.....So only for casual play sadly
@@PsychoKern "tryhards" more like i dont wanna be ftked by little Johnnies exodia deep draw deck with pot of greed, gracefull ect.
@@PsychoKern tryhards?
ok but why that sad
@@PsychoKern You shouldn't call people "tryhards" that want to play the game by the official rules in a official konami tournament
1:03 gee, I wonder who that's referring to..
Sam
I honestly think that we should get a separated ban list, call it a staple/generic card ban list, where they use the system like in Duel Links (If a card is at 1 you can only use one card from the limited list, if the card is at 2 you can only use two cards from the semi-limited list). For example if you put every piece of the Dragoon engine at 1 on this list you can’t use REF or Verte to generically make Dragoon. Certain handtraps could go on this list to avoid that people use every powerful hand trap in the same deck. Of course for most cards we should just use the current ban list, but this could be a solution to balance the game better.
Neither Dragoon nor Handtraps are even close to be considered ban worthy.
Ban list sucks. Not everyone has work in the pandemic. You spend money to get the best deck as possible. After few months, ban list comes up, and you have to spend money on new deck because yours is not playable anymore.
Feel you. But thats the risk.
Where did you buy that pot of greed in the background?
Player input is not the key thing they should or even need to take into account 2:03 . Results has always been what has gotten hit if something is winning all the time for example 12 out of top 16 is the same deck then that deck will and should get hit.Honestly look at some of the result for competitive meta game currently it's the most diverse it's been in ages. dragons and alister need hit but honestly not by much. Also they need to sell the next sets and this is a way of controlling the power creep of the game.
The problem with the invoked engine is you can literally splash it into any deck and it would be semi-viable (probably exaggerating a bit, but you get the picture).
Trash players will always complain in every format. No matter how healthy or unhealthy a format is. It’s a never-ending cycle.
If a deck like ABC becomes the best deck of the format, people will complain about Union Hangar or Dragon Buster being too much at 3 lmao
True.. but still. Union carrier should have only been able to help unions! Not any two monsters for lock strategies.
Which is also just why I'm glad the yugioh fanbase doesn't have control over the banlist, Duel Links included, because especially right now lots of people hate Shooting Star players, and I know for a fact if people had their way they'd make it into Shiranui aka limiting or banning lots of the important cards for that deck, which ah it's not even top tier, the meta is completely different, sure it's another synchro deck but still Shooting Star isn't on it, and the decks have tons of weak points, but nah lots of hate for it which I know would go into getting it messed up by the banlist If the players had a choice, because people be biased, a company that doesn't play but watches and isn't biased like normal is exactly who should control the banlist, not little timmy who can't just adapt and overcome that one deck they keep losing to
Is there any kind of consistency on what determines if a card goes to 2/1/banned? Is it pretty much what konami seems to "feel" they should be or is there some kind of logical thorough-line, like strong search cards always being at 1?
Today, I learned about Walt Whitman. Didn't see that coming.
Kevin tewart already did banlist explanations in the past & our community eviscerated him & those articles. They probably won't do it again, lol
It's tricky because it can be difficult to tell which cards are OP and inherently a problem, versus ones that only appear broken because they work very well against current strategies and then once those change, suddenly those cards are not an issue and I do think for something to be banned, it should be because it actually breaks the game and forces the meta to form around it versus cards that are overpowered because the current meta does not counter it, because sometimes those cards are the reason the meta shifts and new decks and cards find relevance. No one wants the same meta decks to just work best forever.
Perhaps during the "balanced" times when we don't "need" a banlist Konami can experiment by releasing something from the list. See how it does in modern times. There are some cards that have been on the list for a decade or more that could maybe come back without hurting too much. And if it does. Put it back like they did with Smatch Steal
Really stupid question, When there's a new banlist does the previous one still have affect? like if a hero card ban before but the new one doesn't state that, does it count?
No.
I would like to see a trial of a duel links style banlist. In the you can have up to 2 out of all the semi limited rather than 2 of each. It would cut the list massively in terms of actual bans.
These videos r the best types. Im trash and the explanatory nature of them helps alot
i want raigeki at 3...
NOPE! Then they can't sell the packs for the "Lightning Storm" card :D
It could go to 3. Lightning storm in my opinion is a fantastic card going 2nd on your first turn...after that, i dont want to draw it.
This is a great video and topic to talk about. My friend and I have to implement something uncut just like this on our profile.
I don't appreciate how everyone views combo, there are fair combo decks, but the fixes to the broken combo decks always hurts the fair ones too, and hurting fair combo decks make the format less diverse, and I don't mean by deck name, but in regards to Control, Mid-Range, and Combo, all 3 forms should exist every format in at least 2 decks for each category. This gives players a bigger spectrum of deck options to play, so the best way to keep it like that is to hit combo in such a way that doesn't always make the op combo decks still good while the fair ones weaker and I feel Called by the Grave to 1 Actually helped with that (and also Linkross getting Banned). With called by at 1, all combo is checked and you need to have the extenders to push past those disruptions, also with the advent of more powerful go-2nd cards, then the op combo decks have less chance of being op, and even though Dragon Link is everywhere and can extend past disruptions and not die to go-2nd cards, it is still a relatively fair combo deck now after all the older op cards/combos have been hit/banned.
My gripe is things that overstayed their welcome (like Invoked) or too many generic cards that'll eventually stack a bigger issue into the game because they're just that versatile for a lot of decks and may either ruin an archetype or show what a deck in itself can really do (like Calamities in Virtual World). I get that problems will always be a factor into the game, that I can accept, but it does go along with how things can become rather stale since I think another issue is the sets that aren't being a real hit like BLVO and LIOV, so I do have to say this too is on Konami's poor establishments.
Something I don't get about the Ban list is: If a card can be fixed with a hard once per turn errata, then why not ban it for a format or two, do the errata the take it off the ban list?
Konami is lazy and uses us as test rats.
Or better yet. Figure that stuff out in R&D before they release it. Honestly, i think konami should bring in maybe the top 25 duelists as testers for certain cards and give them a couple of weeks to test things, come up with player brain stuff, then work it out until its balanced or "fair". If a catd gets released and the masses figure out a way to break a card or cards that the pros missed, more power to the card
You asked what I would like to see, I will answer
Banned:
Striker Dragon: Striker Dragon, and by extension Boot Sector Launch allows the deck insane amounts of recursion.
Tri-Brugade Revolt: Yet another version of "Return from the Different Dimension" combined with "Soul Charge" in Spell Speed 2 form. Searchable off of Bearbrumm due to Lightning Overdrive.
Cyber Angel Benten: Not once per turn. Allows Drytron insane amounts of consistency even at 1 copy.
Red-Eyes Dark Dragoon: Yes, I'm saying it. With a payoff this good, this card can create a design philosophy issue anytime new generic fusion support gets introduced into the game.
Limited:
Tri-Brigade Fraktall: This is the best main deck Tri-Brigade card. This is the card that sets the entire engine into motion, and like Misc, gets searched by about 2/3s of the deck.
Guardragon Elpy: This card was not the problem everyone thought it was.
Hieratic Seal of Heavenly Spheres: This card is an Elpy that has built in disruption
Phantom Knights of Torn Scales: This card allows Phantom Knights a lot of extension they wouldn't normally have. Bring this one down to 1 to lower the power ceiling of the deck some.
Eva: Eva is a good card made problematic by Drytrons dropping Herald of Perfection/Ultimateness and allowing this card to overstack the hand to become a game of "better have it." (referring to Dark Ruler No More and/or Forbidden Droplet)
Lunalight Tiger: This is more of a personal choice than one that I can give a solid opinion for. Don't give this one a very serious look at.
Sky Striker Ace - Kagari: Since Sky Striker Mobilize - Engage! is legal, this card should not be unlimited.
Semi-Limited:
No changes, move along.
Unlimited:
Yata-Garasu: Card will not do anything.
Double Iris Magician: Card will not do anything at 3 that it can't at 2.
If we let the players pick the cards, Dragoon would've been hit like, a week out of the tin. People still plead for it to get banned, when at the end of the day, it doesn't need to be, and won't fix the game getting banned.
They should only let good players decide. Those who play meta and/or at least competetive rogue. Those with multiple tops or high rated on DB. Those players know Dragoon is a bad card
@@shakeweller idk about that. Jesse Cotton was saying Halq should be banned and handtraps ruin yugioh since the Adamancipator format. I agree with him, but these decisions should always be left to the company at the end of the day. Scrubs don't need another reason to deify pro players anyway either.
@@shakeweller also I feel like if you actually asked most pros, they would not be clamoring to ban Dragon. That's a scrub mentality.
The more banlist updates your game needs the more poorly balanced the game is I feel.
Also it kills your players who's entire deck loses its value when it gets hit. Other games like mtg retains card value more so than yugioh
could i ask, which anime series do you guys think are probably closest to resembling real world gameplay and not you know... summon time wizard and attack for game..?
YGO Vrains.
I personally want two minor changes to the banlist
1. After they have decided on a release date (and after they have passed the “no sooner than” date) to give 1 week of forewarning that a banlist will drop in a week’s time. If you are uncertain of purchasing or selling cards for the current meta you can make changes accordingly instead of going out to buy cards to find they’re banned the next day.
2. To treat the banlist like most games treat patch notes. Say what is getting hit, then give us an explanation as to why your balance team believed it to be necessary, so people can understand the list more thoroughly instead of “Here you go hope your deck still functions.”
Little notes like “To curtail some power from X deck, we’re limiting their consistency on their extenders” or “This card has become over represented (give a number of what % of top decks played it) and is affecting the game in a negative way, so we are removing it from the competitive format until further notice.”
The banlist is simply there to limit cards/decks that are TOO consistent. It’s all about allowing variety and balance. Most players truly can’t make those calls. Me included.
ALOT of good points were made in this video. The fact that the banlist doesn’t make you a better player. How people are needlessly adamant about a banlist releasing out of habit, even though the game state is fine. Cards shouldn’t be hit because they’re used frequently or they disrupt your personal strategy. How old cards sometimes need to be hit so that new cards and strategies can thrive. Great video!
I have an idea that won't happen simply because it would require more effort on the part of Konami. I would recommend a fourth category on the banlist called the "special cases" list. Cards on this list can be played but only in specific/dedicated decks and strategies. For example, you could bring back Heavymetalfoes Electrumite but restrict it to only metalfoes only decks devoid of any outside archetype cards. You could bring back Knightmare Mermaid and Knightmare Goblin but restrict them to only the world legacy family of archetypes. You could bring back Fairy Tail Snow but restrict it to fairy tail, charmer and/or spellcaster only decks. I think a move like that would be worth a try but I don't think Konami would do it.
yo that yugi and judai poster is sick
10:59 this point. Very important
New Master Rule example you can only special summon 3 times max in a turn. and just ban all cards that are non targetable/immune to everything and stop making those kinds of cards.
I think it would be a good idea for Konami to start using something called "Choice Restrictions" like Cardfight Vanguard does.
Basically, what a choice restriction is is when two or more cards get put a type of restriction like limited, semi-limited and banned. If two or more cards become choice restricted, you are allowed to (usually) have 1-3 copies of 1 of the choice restricted cards, but you are not able to play the other card in the same deck and vice versa.
Let's say for example, Verte Anaconda and Dragoon become choice restricted. In which case, you are able to have Verte, but not Dragoon in the same deck and vice versa.
I say this in order to highlight, in my opinion, one of the problems of the yugioh banlist.
Let's go back to that Verte anaconda and Dragoon example. A ton of meta decks are able to make verte, and therefore, make dragoon with ease, so most people would think that the best move for konami to make to address this problem is to just ban either Dragoon or Verte. But what about decks that use anaconda, but not Dragoon(Most of the time). Good examples of these are Heroes, Cyber Dragon, Fluffals, ect. Mostly rouge decks.
If Konami bans, let's say, Verte, then meta decks won't be able to play dragoon anymore, but by banning anaconda, rogue decks that did nothing wrong become significantly worse.
There are so many cards and archetypes in the game right now, that if Konami bans even one of the most niche cards that a meta deck uses, somewhere, someone who plays rogue is balling they're eyes out because they've just lost they're one good extender.
If Konami choice restricts Verte and Dragoon, Only decks that heavily rely on Verte to make Dragoon will be hit, but the rogue decks that weren't using Dragoon at all still get to keep they're good card making less people depressed about the banlist.
I think this would be a nice change
Maybe another discussion topic is whether yugioh could implement a sealed/draft element into new sets?
That’s how I feel magic has managed to last so long
I'm glad Konami doesn't listen to the players. Konami knows what (overpowering) new cards are coming out so they are the ones with the best insight on how to keep the game interesting and "moving". Banlist isn't necessarily a way to make the game "fair" because Yugioh was never meant to be a fair game. (People who want fairness should go and play chess) I think the current banlist is fine, we have so much variety in decks that do well both in meta and casually, even with having Zeus and Dragoon! (and we know they will get limited to 1 at some point)
I just want jet synchron and O-lion back to 1, even with scrap raptor coming those cards are pretty hard to replace.
Just ban Halq so we can actually play synchros again please. T-T
I feel the banlist has too much clutter on it. There are definitely cards that spend way too long on there. (Bestiari, and Tribe come to mind)
oh man, the thumbnail made me think that paul got his deck stolen again.
Man I just want Electrumite back to one so I can play my pendulum magicians.
Subbed to you bro love your videos keep up the good work ❤
black luster solider and chaos emperor dragon banned since ever. Now they are not even a threat.
I think konamy could make a survey with all the cards in the game and players can create thair own banlist. Then konamy will just see the result of the survey that will show the most card people want to ban or unban, but they eill not be forced to do what people want, they could just take inspiration like: "we as konamy want to ban this card to make money, but we also see that people want to ban/unban this other card, that does not influence the other card we want to hit so we could also do as the community suggest"
My biggest concern is that Konami is going against their own justification of making the banlist in the first place. Cards that are too strong to a point where they are in almost every deck or are harmful to the game. There have been soooo many examples of using the banlist to sell new cards, for examples to sell Kosmos or the big TOSS Kill list. I really really hate that. Also they bring back broken cards to sell new sets. They brought Rusty back to push the new PK support, Card Destruction with Dangers etc. i don't nessessarily have anything against those cards coming back, I simply hate the principle behind it. If Rusty is balanced enough to come back, bring it back NOW. If card destruction is balanced, bring it back NOW. That's how it's supposed to be. There are literally cards on the banlist that I'm 100% convinced will come off once certain decks get support and it makes me so sad because they could come off right NOW.
Another point I have is that Konami sometimes doesn't even know their own meta. They hit a rogue deck (Drytron) extremely hard for no reason while not even touching a 1.5+ year old tier 1 deck (Dlink). They refuse to look at DB Rated which has the best players in the world on it and reliable data that don't get blurred by players who can't afford cards irl, and refuse to use it. It's so free data and they just pretend it doesn't exist.
Real life data is never a reliable tool since many players especially in 3rd world countries make a weaker deck more popular because of card prices and literally blur the balance. Dragoon is a prime example. Dragoon.... SUCKS. It's a rogue deck boss monster. Why do so many players in locals complain about it? Well the best outs are 120 and 100 Euros. GG. Ban Dragoon!!!! 111 (not....)
They really need to care more about the games integrity and the conservation of the balance.
Edit: how could I forget... They are willing to ban 4-5 cards that are in some cases mediocre just so a new card can exist. Hail all mighty needlefiber. I just don't get it. Or the lyralisc fusion...
That Walt Whitman quote went hard tho 💯
Is competitive yugioh more expensive in the tcg or in the ocg?
TCG by a country mile. Meta cards are usually printed in 2-3 rarities of the same booster set. You'll have a Starlight, Secret, Ultra, and Super Lightning Storm in the same 1 OCG Booster Box vs how the TCG only makes the 1 Starlight and 1 Secret
@@goldensunadept5091 Figured. Plus there are the lackluster structure deck reprints in the tcg and so on.
I know people tend not to like pendulums but odd-eyes is my favorite pendulum archetype. And believe me I get why they have to be nerfed to a degree but I miss playing cards like Astrograph, Skullcrobat joker, Supreme king starving venom (just for a generic beater I don’t do that weird nightingale combo), having electrumite as a link option. I feel like these cards can come back bc of pendulums being restricted by links. Sure I can use these are among friends who are cool with it and know that I won’t do a degenerate strat but I miss playing these normally at like a cardshop without someone saying like “hey this is banned”.
I think that Konami does take player opinions on ban lists. But not in the sense of asking but going based off what people are playing. There are some very strange cards that have ended up on the ban list because of player innovation.
A nerf errata would help answer some of those issues, they should have a dedicated reprint set(s) focusing nerf errata of either the current problematic cards or getting card off the banlist.
Bought a blazing vortex and only got 1 armed dragon and one support :/ off topic but I needed to share lol
i only got 2 armed dragon cards, lv3 and lv10 white
I dont want to be the cimoooooo but: Buy the singles!
Unlucky. I pulled pretty much the deck outside of flash.
Still waiting on pile armed dragon to play the deck at its best lol
I just want cards in the tcg that the ocg has had for like a 6 months to a year or maybe longer.
Pot of Greed to 1-why not, for the memes and laughs, draw 2, it's POG and can clutch a victory
Monkey Board, Joker and Electrumite to 1-just LET pendulums become tier 2 or 1 for one format, it's about the time, also I feel bad for Trif without Electrumite ;(
Ban Dragoon and Zeus-honestly tired of those cards, just ban them for one format, like seriously
Called By The Grave back to 3-come on, you already sold all the handtraps enough, let's be real here
Destiny Hero Malicious to 3-literally only card on the semi limited, at 3 it won't make Heroes or anything else Tier 8 unbeatable top deck, this ain't 2008/2009 anymore
Unlimit all Salamangreat cards because even with them, deck is only great rogue, it ain't broken OP
Idk what else, just do all this in one ban list and just see what goes...If it's gonna be THAT bad, just put a "emergency banlist" after like 2 weeks aka just update the banlist website, like, is that so hard? If people discover new giga broken strats with these unbanned cards then just bring them back to the banlist, really simple
11:12 Exactly why I don't want Elpy to be banned because new more OP cards will come out, Elpy will be forgotten and will stay on the banlist, powercreeped by other more OP cards....Rather, gives us tools to deal with it and other decks in terms of *CHEAP COMMON AND RARE CARDS AND NOT SUPER SHORT PRINTED SECRET RARES THAT COST AN ARM AND A LEG PER ONE COPY, JESUS CHRIST*
I honestly think out of all the banned monsters on the ban list the one that should come off is Joker. I've actually had this discussion multiple times and i can't find one that doesn't deserve to be on there as much as it. He might search 3 archetypes but he only searches on normal summon. Stratos searches 4 archetypes on normal or special summon. I personally managed to get 4 searches with him in one turn. Lets not forget if they made a main deck monster for each extra deck HERO type Stratos would then be able to search 8 Archetypes. 7 if you don't want to count the win con effect Pit Boss guy. He also lets you destroy spells and traps equal to the number of HEROs you control except him. Compared to that i always wonder: how did Stratos get unbanned before Joker? The only reasons i could come up with is Konami hates Pendulums (like Paul said in a previous video) and know they'll make more money with Stratos.
Ban every card except for _Pot of Greed._
with my stratos out, I'm happy
I still say there should be no ban list at all. If players are worried about problematic cards/combos then that forces them structure their main and side decks around either their own strengths or counter plays. That’s how I’ve felt since I started playing this game 20 years ago. More recently I’ve said to myself; I feel like hand traps and quick effects ruined game play but again, if nothing is banned then it forces us to always stay sharp and be on our toes. On a side note, I took a screen video while watching Sam’s reaction to the September 2020 list. You’ve gotta check it out, it’s hilarious
Idk what about Pot of Greed? If cards like that are legal, every deck would play it. It might be a little hyperbolic to say this, but if all cards were legal, then every competitive deck would be nearly identical once the player base has collectively "figured out" what the best deck is. Whenever you have a scenario in which every competitive deck is running a given card, regardless of the deck, then that's a good sign that the card is a problem. A card like Pot of Extravagance is still legal because not EVERY deck runs it, it is in some competitive decks, but not ALL competitive decks, because it doesn't work well in many decks. Pot of Greed is good in every deck. I think unbanning cards like Greed would REALLY reduce the number of viable decks, most likely down to one meta deck that is the only deck to win tournaments.
The issue I just mentioned is very minor compared to the REAL problem with no banlist. If we unban every card, that would create a format where cards that were never legal at the same time WILL BE, and would inevitably result in the most consistent FTK decks ever seen. Even the best FTK decks seen in tournament play had to manage without cards that were banned at the time or those that had yet to be released. If you throw all those broken cards together into one format and unban all of them, every deck would be an FTK deck. Forget setting up "negates". Every player's goal would be going first and winning the duel on turn 1. These decks would be so consistent at successfully FTKing, that whoever wins the die roll will win the match every time. You might as well not bother playing the game, just scoop as soon as your opponent wins the die roll. Doesn't sound very fun.
I understand the point you’re making but Konami is still printing new cards. Unbanning every card will without a doubt give way to some degree of what you are saying. But as long as new cards keep getting introduced then the game will keep changing. Even if you unban something like pot of greed and everyone starts using it again, cards already exist and can still be released to combat it. Or Konami can take banned cards and errata them like they’ve been doing. I just think it’s dumb that cards become illegal just because they saw enough meta play by enough people during one format. It’s not like there aren’t strategies to stop FTK’s. It actually makes me very mad that games can be won in the first 2 turns but banned cards are not the cause of that. The real problem is the overemphasis on hand traps, quick effects, Omni negates, and unbreakable boards. I’m not saying we should go back to set one-pass but I feel like creating interruptions during your opponents turn outside of actual trap cards was a mistake
Banning cards means players will have to be the new sets.
It also means that players will probably stop buying the older sets.
When it comes to customer satisfaction banning a card will make some players happy, and other players angry. Balancing profits and player satisfaction is tricky business.