Before anyone gets on the defensive about this, I still think there are plenty of people who will be happy with a Bambu Lab printer, I'm not trying to rain on their parade. I use a Mac as my primary workstation ;)
well yeah, i mean the main reason 90% of consumers buy bambu is because there is no DIY or tinkering. yes there's that 10% of hobbyists who want to tinker with it, but 90% really don't care.
@@teresashinkansen9402 And thank goodness for that! They could have had near-total lock-in of the market in a few years, but this blunder will give a MAJOR boost to their more open-platform competition.
Can I point out the pure _irony,_ that they did this for "security", and it resulted in a lot of people completely stopping firmware updates, and making their printer _less_ secure? Great job Bambu!
even worst, the new app have been hacked and private encryption key shared openly, by so, it proves Bambu were right saying there is someone, out there, that has all the tool and capabilities to be destructive (even that was not to be demonstrated).
As an engineer I don’t understand why LAN isn’t the default for communicating with the printer. Cloud should be the secondary if you want to print remotely. It was ridiculous you needed to enable a “LAN Only” mode to use LAN. It shouldn’t be one or the other. And this new requirement to authenticate with the cloud for LAN is bs. This developer mode is an appeasement. And they are gas lighting the community calling the concerns misinformation. The community should still be pushing back on this. We’ve tolerated it this far, but if they want good will LAN needs to be the default with no strings attached.
Should be LAN only by default... and if you *want*, you can sign it into a cloud service. That's how the Prusa works, and I thought that made sense. Or just no cloud service at all, like my other older printers :)
"No strings attached" should apply to every facet of hardware ownership. You think it's OK for Craftsman to come into my shop and tell me that using my 15/16" combination wrench as a prybar and a hammer is forbidden? It's MINE. I bought it, I will use it any way I want. Sure, if I abuse it and break it, that's on me, but they have no right to dictate how I use my own tools and/or devices.
We live in strange times. My LG AC cooler with "smart" options - connected to smarphone via LG cloud even if smatphone and AC is in the same wifi network. Dont have "LAN" option. I hope LG dont shout down cloud server ones days...or give firmware update with LAN option before shout down servers.
If more consumers understood that draconian overreach followed by half-appeasement to psychologically condition them into accepting net-sacrificial "compromise" was standard business practice in the world today we'd all have a lot more money and personal agency over our products, and by extension our lives. And the attitude of apologists to spin discontent as entitlement after the spirit of a EULA is repeatedly breached and changed without notice is nothing less than gaslighting. Half the time it feels like the loudest bootlickers are members of a cult of entrapment despite most of them not being influencers or having any sort of financial compensation for bad-faith defense of predatory tactics. In sociology and economics it's called the Ratchet Effect.
Its the classic Plauge Inc strategy. Make the disease highly contagious but ultimately harmless, then mutate the virus to where it becomes deadly. As for Bambu’s version, make a really good printer, then trigger a firmware update.
Pure irony: they want to bring out a new firmware for 'security'.. but like a day after.. their private keys (as in the security keys of that supposedly secure connection) are already leaked!
Definitely didn't learn from sony's mistake with the PS3. The maker comunity are the ones with the skills to reverse engineer your hardware, don't piss them off.
its not irony, its pure logic... if you are spying your customers what they are printing or you make their printer to connect to your servers to be able to print, that is opening backdoor for hackers...
Just the key that signs the communication from the "connector" to the printer. Still a private key, but not the most important one we could get our hands on.
Classic story. Company makes good product at competitive price and builds consumer goodwill. Company sacrifices consumer goodwill for a fast profit. Loss of goodwill leads to loss of sales and increases customer interest in competitors. Everyone loses out in the long run.
You missed a few parts of the classic story: The company sells the product at a loss, or with razor thin margins, during stage 1 specifically to get a large captive customer base. The company pivots during stage 2 to lock down customers and stop them from finding ways out of their (future) hyper monetised system. Stage 3 (optional), the frog in a boiling pot. Stage 4, the captive customer market pays subscription charges which is the REAL way they make money. But hey, it's cheaper and easier than moving to a different brand Apple, Netflix, Amazon prime, bambu - they all do it because it works
@@AsheLucia "Because Capitalism" is a thought-terminating meme. Greed and corruption existed before capitalism. It's becoming more of emotion loaded baggage rather having any actual meaning.
They just shit the bed of those that pay their bills. Exceptionally stupid- and no way to undo the damage they just caused their brand. Too late now, wow.
@@FlintStone-c3s I think you have it backwards, friend. "Woke" is the embracing of freedom and equality (and at worst, DEI stuff for political brownie points). The word you're looking for is "late-stage capitalism".
The problem for me is that they even considered making this change to everybody's printers in the first place. Loads of people are out there saying "Oh, see, they put out a blog update and it's all OK now" and they're just missing the point entirely; if _any_ company says they're "improving security" by making normal operation dependent on their cloud authentication service, they're either lying or incompetent because that's _not_ how security works. It's a straight indication that they either can't be trusted because they're shady, or they can't be trusted because they don't understand the fundamentals of network security; either way, the result is the same. My P1S was due for an upgrade when the H2D comes out for large-format printing (which I need, but I've been putting it off to work with Bambu's timescales). That's not happening any more, and I see a K1 Max or K2 Plus in my near future.
Crazy how Bambu threw their reputation right onto the ground in a week. As a 3d printing outsider I've been seeing all of their sponsor spots in videos lately and was thinking a Bambu would be a great first printer for me if I get into the hobby. No thanks anymore Bambu
It's expensive, but I highly recommend getting a Prusa. You pay more up front, but you have to pay less on the back end because you don't need to do nearly as many repairs. I use Prusas and Bambus professionally for engineering prototypes, and both have been great, but the Bambus have way more failed prints and mechanical breakdowns. The Prusas just work and just keep working forever. You could also get one of the many excellent Prusa clones like Sovol. It's just worth getting a good tool that works well instead buying a cheap tool you'll have to replace immediately, like a Creality printer. I think this is generally the way to approach buying any tool. Buy the good one now, instead of a cheap one then the good one.
Honestly, I hope bigtreetech offers a drop in motherboard for bambu printers so you can just run klipper and copy paste a profile for a stock machine and be in your way.
@@Level2Jeff It's pretty clear that it's not like that at all. So far (so far) it doesn't seem any different than using any commercial Android phone, tablet, Google TV box, Mac, iOS device, etc.
Thing is if things work there's no necessity to update often. But I understand your approach. I'm not recommending them either. If they take away this what's next some subscription for network use...
Ah yes, connecting something to the internet. A well know way to decrease your attack surface and make something more secure. Makes perfect sense Bambu
I've been a huge proponent of Bambu Labs printers, they're the best on the market by a mile. If they'd decided to lock down new printers, well that would be regrettable. But retrospectively removing abilities from machines already in the field is illegal in some countries and immoral everywhere. I won't be buying another BL printer and won't recommend them.
I need to figure out what I need to do to keep mine the way it is (working). It has been turned off a few months now and I’m scared to turn it back on lol
You said how I feel about a lot of IOT devices when you said "It should be local by default and cloud as an add on" . Sadly, it seems companies don't understand that.
@@Level2Jeff True, but that would give them an incentive to actually make qaulity, user friendly, and secure cloud services. Instead we get typical junk like Ring cameras, HP's garbage, etc.. nothing but a money grab that feeds on the tech illiterate who falsely believe a company has your best interest at heart.
They understand. They are trying to boil the frog, so to speak. They are trying to manipulate their customer base into accepting a market being the way that they as a corporation want it to be, rather than serving a product that the customers demand.
Literally days away from buying this printer as my first. Looks like it's time to have a rethink... I really hope Bambu take notice. Looking forward to a new recommendation video soon ☺
I don't think this matters to most users, despite these recent videos. I can't see how it's going to affect me at all. I've been using the X1C for 3 months and it's the best printer by a long way. Make your own mind up but this has been blown out of all proportion as far as I can see.
@ I think it's a spirit of the announcement over the volume of people affected. Given the community sprang up by open collaboration and open sourcing this is a bit of a dick move. Sets a precident for the future, like Apple removing headphone jacks...
@BenjiRayson fair enough, but 3 out of the last 6 (different) printers I've had have be closed eco system, and on the whole I prefer it. The Bambu has been the exception where it was open, and now it's closed but I only used with Bambu Studio which does everything i want and more. If it had started life like this, nobody would be bothered. The Bambu hardware has always been closed, but it works brilliantly.
@@Notagain640 Oh no argument here, I suppose it's just nice to... Have a backup plan? The chances of me getting a Bambu still are high, but if next month they do a whole new bit of software we don't like or it's broken we're SOL for alternatives lol
I try to separate the two channels (since most people watch YT by algo and not by subscriptions anymore) to have this channel be more off the cuff and 'old YT' style, and the main channel be the more polished / long term videos where I have more time to devote to script, testing, editing, etc.
@@Level2Jeff It's not really about what content fits where, it's about letting people know that a product you showed off has been dramatically altered by it's company in antagonistic ways that dramatically changes the value proposition. Seeing Bambu in videos on RUclips like your Fractal case video has made me consider purchasing one for its ease of use - and I would certainly want to know that doing so would now be a terrible idea. You main channel has over 10x the viewership, so while I keep up with your second channel and the 3D printing community, many of your viewers do not, particularly since Bambu has always been marketed as the "it just works" printer for people who don't want to keep up with the 3D printing community more broadly.
@@Level2Jeff A video on how to spot products that could go subscription only or obsolete if the vendor decides to stop support could be worthy of a main channel video.
Thanks for talking about this Jeff! We talked a bunch on stream yesterday and intend to dig deeper this week for a video later this week. It 100% feels all about control, not being able to use your printer on your own LOCAL NETWORK without their new cloud program.. yeah, no dice. and yes 100% feels like HP! Not only are there better ways, the community has given them plenty of options. It appears they want to force users online, lock them out of 3rd party anything, including slicers without convoluted systems to make it difficult, but there is also plenty of hinting towards a farm software in the SAAS market, which would likely rely on these keys to enable your printer to function. Since the keys are tied to the printer until the software gives it a new one as well, this could very well brick the second hand market for Bambu's but we have yet to see the extent of control they have with this software. It is well more than we feel comfortable with though.
Not to mention their "solution" is basically just allowing us to keep the same level of functionality (they never said they'll give us access to SD card in LAN mode) that we already have had forever, but it might also void your warranty it seems. Absolutely disgusting. We ALREADY have FTP and MQTT access to the machines, have for a long time, saying they'll "allow" us access to these going forward isn't a concession, it's an insult.
@@ChippWalters textbook usage of enshittification: "Enshittification is a term used to describe the gradual decline in quality of online products and services. It's also known as crapification and platform decay."
Thank you for standing with the community. The blog post slapping the community in the face, pretending the dev option was always there, is an insult to the collective intelligence. Chinese Bambu devs calling out “misinformation”, yet never disproving anything, is pathetic.
I had plans to upgrade to a new printer. I was going to go Bambu. The day before I was going to buy, they made that announcement. I'm now a proud owner of a K1C.
@@sushibot12 Been working flawlessly since I got it set up yesterday. I've printed about 5-6 jobs with about 20 hours of run time. The only thing that's a bummer is the build plate is smaller than the P1S, and I didn't have the cash for the K1 Max. Functionally and setup wise, this have been excelent. I've been using an ender 3 pro for the last 3-4 years with inconsistent results. Already my K1C is printing bigger and better prints than I ever was able to on the ender 3, but that's not really a surprise since it's 2-3 times the price. Long story short, I'm super happy with it.
Imagine designing a product for a community whose whole thing is tinkering, building, and modifying, and thinking those people would be okay with locked down products and closed ecosystems. There's no universe where people wouldn't just immediately start hacking their printers.
Honestly I do not think that’s what they designed the machines for. These were a real attempt to get 3D printers in more homes by making them easy and reliable. Some people just want their appliance to work with minimal tinkering. Now this lockdown nonsense is a bad move 100% but in the long run it will only matter if someone else steps up and fills the temporary void. That void is a low to mid priced machine that just works 90% of the time. Coming from resin printing to FDM I was shocked by how many tinker needed Jenky stuff gets sold. Most resin machines are pretty easy to use at on level. They are messy and all that but the machines all Pretty much can print out of the box
@@Kronekomics Almost any FDM printer, especially 2024 and 2025, can print out of the box. The issues only come when you're chasing the best quality a FDM machine can offer and incredible speeds.
3:46 I am glad that you already found the workaround. I was going to send it to you if you didn't mention it. "If purchasing is not ownership, then piracy is not stealing".
Unless the driver or firmware is open-source, you don't fully own any piece of equipment. However, Bambu is so tone-deaf to use a hard hand on a DYI community
The part that will bite them in the butt the most is going to be the chunk of creative users migrating away from the Bambu ecosystem & Makerworld. They were popular because the devices were decently well made, decently priced with good features that worked without fussing. That popularity brought people designing print files & projects that would work well with minimal user input, further increasing their popularity. That positive feedback loop is breaking apart, it might turn into a company death-spiral like many industries have seen over the years.
I picked up a P1S over black Friday and I've been absolutely loving it; which makes this recent firmware changes rather disappointing. I knew when I purchased it that it's more closed source than most competitors, but the value for price is what sold me on it and while I'll keep using mine. I'll avoid upgrading the firmware until I'm forced to update.
Ditto. Hopefully someone makes a replacement control board or hacks the firmware to be able to run Klipper or something. I'd go that route in a heartbeat.
@@thirtythreeeyes8624 the P1S was absolutely the right printer for me. I appreciate the benefit of the Bambu community size and relative ease of use so I can focus on printing, not optimizing (of course other printers are like this now, but I felt Bambu was particularly easy to use).
I just got a P1S about two months back and have been super happy. I've recommended the printer to at least a half dozen other people in that time. Not only am I no longer recommending the printer to anyone, but this whole fiasco has made me so disappointed in BL that I'm now trying to recall all the people I've spoken with in order to rescind my recommendations. I think someone high up at BL has ideas of becoming Apple and owning a walled garden of 3D printing. They're not near unique nor popular enough for that to happen in a marketplace where the Android has already happened.
Ya 100% they want to be apple or DJI and they will likely continue on that path because it worked for them and their target demographic isn't the people who care about things like this. Personally I never liked them because it was obvious this was the type of company they are. Benefiting off the open source community while locking down their machines and giving nothing back to the community that paved the road for them.
Thank you, Jeff! We're paying close attention to creators on how they react to this, your platform is important, thank you for using it to raise awareness!
No, once a company tries to stick the tip in, you have to write them off unless something absolutely major happens. They obviously want this, and them backtracking doesn't mean they'll stop, they'll just boil the frog a little slower.
I think you pretty much summed up my response. Previously I would have kept on the stock firmware, but now I'll definitely be looking at thirdparty firmwares. As another RUclipsr commented "Don't ever underestimate pissed off nerds"
Bambu's response is right out of the Wolf Warrior playbook. They stopped short of complaining that any criticism hurts the Chinese people and that they demand an apology otherwise expect sanctions and import bans from your country!
Yeah, I was shopping for my first printer, stuck between Bambu and Prusa. This has made the decision incredibly easy. I was already leaning towards Prusa prior to this fiasco. Community matters.
If you can afford the new prusa core xy that's probably a good choice but, I'm extremely happy with my $400 qidi q1 and would take it over the prusa even without price considerations because I need the heated chamber for the parts and materials I print.
I finally ordered one of these and it came and now I'm going to have to return it. It had all the features I wanted, but they do not get to own something I have bought and paid for.
Jeff, you have my respect for making this video. I've been deeply disappointed in the complete absence of coverage from all the large 3d printing channels. I do think this topic deserves consideration for a main channel video, simply because the rest of the large tech community seems to be ignoring it. Just my 2 cents, thanks again for putting this out there.
The previous plug-in was already a big hindrance, as you couldn't just enter the printers IP. This caused the printers to not be usable when operating a dedicated IoT network. (Yes, you could relay/forge the multicast packages, I know). I had several Bambus in my "to buy"-queue, but was waiting due to the bad plug-in and hoping for better networking support. Now I no longer have to wait - Bambu disqualified themselves.
Jeff, i think this is actually a pretty good subject for your main channel. Your audience reach is the kind of thing you could use to plant a little seed and sensibilize more people. And then kindly remind companies that once the product is sold there is still a service expected...
I find it ironic that a company that makes 3d printers, something designed to empower creativity and independence is putting restrictions on said creative device
I had three Creality models starting with CR-10 S4, and now K1 Max. My CR-10 is just keeping dust, since I have no energy anymore to tinker around. So I was afraid to buy K1 Max, but got one open box for half the price. And wow, I am printing all the time. It printed more in these several months than what I print in last 4 years. They really jumped their game, it took me around 30 minutes to set it up and that is all. So, I would surely recommend it.
I'm going to have to look at those. My Ender 3 has been gathering dust for at least 2 years now because it needs work and I'm tired of constantly having to mess with it. I just want something that's going to work out of the box and has multi-filament support.
Yep. This is why I not only don't buy HP printers anymore but also don't buy anything HP anymore. These companies just don't learn. Of course, Apple is the biggest offender of this type of attitude.
I agree on the HP consumer side, but hp business hardware is far better and as far as I know doesn't have any of the consumer bullshit in there. No business buys hardware that has a cloud account as a requirement.
Please tell me what the issue is with Apple? If you don’t like it then don’t use it? I use both android and apple. Apple is and security is a lot better. However they are both tools and they are both great devices. Yes it’s easier to root android but you can still jailbreak iPhone. But I’m not 15 anymore my phone is a tool and it’s more than good enough for me. Any time I have to help my parents with their s21 or 23 ultra it’s a nightmare
@Adabulldoya living under a rock? Apple constantly makes it difficult for third party repair shops, that repair out of warranty gear and in warranty gear for half the price. They block cheaper third party replacement parts. Not allowing older phones to fully charge the battery. Not allowing third party shops, not allowing other cheaper payment methods for subscriptions. You could go on and on. I'm not sure Apple is the worst, but they certainly are not the most consumer friendly.
Forcing you to use the cloud to access your printer will allow Bambu to monetize access to your printer. Pay them $$$$ for a cloud account and more for prints over a certain size or place other functionality you presently posess behind a paywall. They can also disallow printing parts for devices & machines at the request of third parties. I've printed replacement gears for servo motors and control unit cases in 80's & 90's vehicles. GM Ford Chrysler Nissan ... could conceivably send Bambu a cease & desist to stop this. Just spitballing but you get the point.
Bampoo could integrate AI in their cloud, to analyse geometry of your printfiles, and refuse to print Mickey Mouse figures, Lego-like and/or gun-like objects. The possibilities are endless. The future is now :(
I think this is a bit tinfoil hat. Yes they could do all this and more! But will they? Will they spend all this time and effort for little to no reward? Only time will tell.
Adobe's TOS now claims that they have right to all of your IP created through their software. With all of your 3D prints going thru bambu's server, what's to stop them pulling the same stunt? No thanks.
So I just started 3-D printing around Christmas. I bought two bamboo printers and probably would’ve bought quite a few more in the future. Their changes to force using their ecosystem have convinced me to go in a different direction. I’m also going to be trying to return both of my printers.
The Anycubic Kobra s1, has a very similar feature set. Their AMS system is also a dryer and works with more filament spool types and their slicer is based on Orca with LAN mode.
That's just the US and other shit countries, civilized parts of the world have laws against that. Cancelling any subscription must be as easy as signing up. That is how the law actually defines that in my country.
@@bzuidgeest Exactly. Blame the United States of Trump, and US lawmakers that allowed it. We in EU can cancel any subscription at any point in time, with a single email.
@lordwafflesthegreat I'm no fan of Trump, but those issues are decades old in the US. Blame Trump for the shit he actually does, there is enough of that already
@@lordwafflesthegreatTrump has nothing to do w/ it. Leave your political bias out of it. It anything blame the companies for using dark patterns. Side note, I haven’t found it hard to cancel subscriptions in the US. Even when companies use shitty practices to make it hard.
@@lordwafflesthegreat crazy you say blame trump for the difficulty in cancelling subscriptions. when the FTC just passed a new rule that means all companies in the US that offer subscriptions MUST make it as easy to cancel as it is to sign up. it's the "one-click cancel" rule and it has already passed and all businesses must comply by April
It appears that BamBoozal took a page out of Ring Camera's upgrade, which was a downgrade that took away the ability to instantly record and stop. These are two companies so far. Consumers must boycott these companies, or more will follow!
@@Level2Jeff Same!! This BL news has really been upsetting, even tho they are considered the affordable way into 3d printing (not really.) I paid over $1k for my P1S, I would not have even considered them if I knew this was going to happen.
@@looxonline I would love to see that! Keep the P1S frame, motion system and possibly extruder, a drop in replacement board with Klipper and related stuff, with a Panda Touch-like screen running Klipper Screen.
I have always preferred reviewers who have shown independence. The ability to point out the Pros AND the Cons makes my final decision more informed. Pointing out the changes in company behaviour, and how it impacts the buying choice, makes a great video. Thanks!
100% correct response! I stopped buying HP when they pulled their similar bait-&-switch. Was convinced to buy Bambu until this happened. That purchase is now dead. As a general rule, I'm refusing ANY purchase that requires cloud callback to function: Alexa, Siri, Google Home. If I can't operate 100% locally, it won't be happening here.
I'm waiting on 2 P1S combos to ship. Watching closely & possibly will cancel the order & return the entire order of filament & spare/upgrade parts I received last week for these machines. The only recourse we have is to vote with our wallets.
The is the norm, not the exemption. Bambu labs isn't doing anything 1000 companies are doing right now. Some of the most popular ones.. if anything what Bambu did here pales in comparison to Apple, Facebook, Netflix, Amazon, Tesla, etc...
@ Not sure what your question has to do with my comment. I was replying to @dekurvajo who said this is bad because other companies might figure this out and also be bad, and I was pointing out that Bambu is copying the homework of many companies before not the other way around.
Well, this one is not DIY friendly, and plenty of people ignored that fact when they bought it. If they were to pull an HP and start blocking 3rd party filament, I could understand the outrage.
I never purchased one of Bambu's printers for fear of this very thing, instead I use the K1 range and jailbroke them the moment I powered them up, and they are now blocked from internet access.
Jeff thank you for speaking up. I feel Bambu makes exceptional printers, but their policies and big brother approach is the reason I have not and will not purchase there products.
@@owencrawford8416ngl my experience with recent Creality is that you can tinker if you want but you don't have to, their printers work pretty well as they are. Early on maybe not, but as the product matures it becomes more refined.
I have a small machine shop and large format 3D printer, and had chosen the Bamboo as my next printer. But now I'm having to delay my decision, reevaluating what to buy. I've pretty much written off Bamboo because it's not a just a design decision. It's a marketing philosophy driving product development, possibly a roadmap. So they may as well plunge forward, not backtrack because they've already lost trust and should capitalize on their captured clientele, & squeeze all the profits they can during this short window of opportunity. It's a shame though. It's hard getting the kind of following they once had.
I have a Qidi Tech printer. A feature I really wanted was the printer works on my local network, no Qidi app or cloud connection. This has also been reliable so far.
Working on a project where we're about to equip a company with a replacement fleet of 3D printers. Some 243 UK locations were going to get a BL X1 - I stopped that procurement this morning. We'll now reevaluate our recommendations, certainly won't be BL anytime soon. If they do it once, they will do it again. But it's getting harder to find honest manufacturers these days. It's a shame it was too late for another customer that have just bought 40 of them, but not too bigger deal to keep them offline; they would never have had direct WAN access anyway... Won't be buying anymore...
I'm not sure exactly what their business relations are like, but the warranty and general hardware support I've received from Prusa has been nothing but incredible for half a decade now. The mk4s is as "unbox and press go" as the X1, if not moreso. It's more expensive, but I'd hope BL's actions here show that you often get what you pay for. Best of luck with your search.
We've been on this enshittification process long enough to be able to spot the signs because of known cases in pretty much all areas you can imagine. It all started with the RFID spools, which many dismissed as just a feature so the machine could identify the filament forgetting Juicero had the same system for their juice packs. Then the cloud requirements. Eventually, they'll remove the ability to use third party software and have a subscription service in order for the printer to work. The question here is not whether they'll implement those changes or not, but when will they do it.
I was planning to buy a p1s but now I will wait and see… it kinda sucks because I was really excited but had before the same issue when a company closed some servers and I wasn’t able to use their software anymore.
They f***ked up, big time and there attitude is kind of bad but they did at least give the developer mode that will keep it working exactly as it does now. We should be vigilant and keep an eye on them but the sad fact is that if you want a reasonably priced printer that has all the features the bambus have and want them to just work they are currently the only game in town.
That's what pains me... like how could they not have known the immediate backlash they'd get. If they had said "our defaults are going to tighten down security, but we're adding a developer mode you can turn on to keep current behavior" this whole thing would've been almost a nothingburger.
@@Level2Jeff Yes if they had said that then it would have not been a problem. Also needs a way to activate without connecting to the internets. I am going to keep an eye on the X1P firmware and the project to modify the printer to install clipper on them(needs extensive hardware mods tho). Whist i firmly believe that was incompetence and not malicious behaviour just need to see how things go over the next few months. I kind of see them like Apple in a way, for me its limiting the restrictions but for a normal person who just wants it to work its prob the best option at the moment. I think this is a golden opportunity for sovol to step up, they make good printers and they make a voron inspired flying gantry coreXY printer and they give money back to the voron project with every printer they sell ( that is based off the voron design). They have made mistakes in the past not following the GPL but when this happened they immediately apologised and corrected the problem. If they had a software stack similar to bambu and a decent AMS system that would be something to look at. We also have prusa with the coreOne, they need a better AMS system , the current prusa filament change system is nowhere near on the level of the bambu AMS. I dont trust creality at all, i have heard horror sorties about there printers failing after a few weeks/ months, could just be me tho.
@@Level2Jeffthats right, but they could not have done that, because the "developer mode" is backtracking with the effort to make it not look like backtracking. they probably did not anticipate the severeness of sales drops and/or cancellation that happened over the last few days. how could they know, their user base is not mostly casual people, but tech guys that wanted to run a cheap printer? they most likely got their customer demographics totally skewed, and this is an attempt to mitigate huge losses.
@@Level2JeffSo freaking true. They fucked up communicating the message from square one. Now they will need to work extra hard to earn back that lost trust. Maybe they don't have a great public communications department (is it one guy)? Or maybe it was a forced change from somewhere else and they had to comply? It just feels weird to me.
@@Level2Jeff Buy the Sovol SV08, you don't have the time for a Voron. You have some Kernel compiling to do 😆 Not the best but they promised to donate to the Voron project and they have donated 3000USD. It's open, don't know if it's normal open Klipper or something Sovol made.
From Tom's Hardware review of Sovol SV08: The Sovol SVO8 is a very fast, large open-frame Core XY 3D printer built to Voron specs. Naturally, it runs Vanilla Klipper firmware and is totally open-source. Its 350 x 350 mm build plate is quite spacious and, though it looks very simple, it still has perks like automatic Quad Gantry leveling, LED lights and a built-in camera. What really sets the SV08 apart - besides speed - is Sovol’s desire to pay tribute to Voron and not just knock off another clone. The manufacturer is donating $2 to the Voron Design Team for every SV08 sold.
As the creator of a third-party accessory that depended on the MQTT api, we always knew they "could" shutdown the api and accepted the risk. However the way they are doing it is very poorly executed and has bad optics. There are simpler ways to increase security without removing features such as oauth or an mqtt proxy. I've contacted their dev team and all 3 times they responded with a nonsense and insulting answer why they won't do that.
I cannot agree more than this with you. This is ridiculous and unacceptable. Creality has making me very angry with tons of hardware problems and the stupid support which may be an AI because of how dumb the answers are, but man, blocking the usage by software is on another level. I was saving money to buy a bambu lab printer, which I may now spend on a Prusa XL I wanted because of the five extruders. Maybe with time and people using more the Prusa printers the price drops a little at least. The fact is, I am 100% willing to pay more to have the freedom Prusa offers with a awesome hardware. Edit: oh and by the way, prusa doesn't sell their hardware here in Brasil, they send it here but the taxes are smashing 98% of the product price + shipment. If a Prusa printer is expensive for you guys in the north america, think how much it costs to us here in the south america. I may not be able to buy one even if I work my entire life until my last breath.
In the exact same boat, I'm not really a 3D printer creator but do 3D print a decent amount and was so disappointed by this whole thing. As you say, the hardware is really good and they changed 3D printing for a lot of people, but why do they seem to find it so difficult to just build cool hardware and stop making bad decisions when it comes to the software side, then having to back track. Especially when the 3D printing community is known for being against this type of behaviour (rightfully so), it just makes no sense. The "developer mode" is fine if they implement it, but at this point I've lost all trust that they won't do it again in the future. Guess I'm gonna enable LAN mode and block from the internet from now on 🤷🏻♂️ I was literally about to buy a a couple of units for the workshop but I'm just gonna get more Prusas instead now
I had just bought an A1 and was so excited to finally get into the 3D printing world...now I'm just waiting to finalize the return process to send it back. You played yourself Bambu.
100% Thanks for the post, I'm in the market, and this company's 3d printers were at the top of my "I want" list. But now the list has been reevaluated with Bambu Labs unfortunately stricken from the rolls. The cost was a retarding factor in the lack of speed on my purchasing it, but luckily this video came out before I pulled the trigger and took the plunge! Thanks again!
A couple weekends ago I had been planning to finally retire my old Ender 3 Pro and upgrade to a Bambulab P1S. Unfortunately, a snow storm blew through and delayed my trip to my local Micro Center to buy one. Now I'm glad I waited.
I completely agree. I recommended these printers, but I won’t be doing that anymore. And I was going to buy one of the new full-size versions when they released, but I probably won’t be doing now that either.
Most companys will want you to be a subscription model 😂 they want profit forever. Anyway I wanna say to those companys when you guys do that…you can 100% guarantee that I won’t buy your product.
I'm quite upset about this. I've been saving up for a Bambu because there aren't a lot of printers that stand up to the quality I've seen out of Bambu, and as someone who likes to tinker and homelab, this is just disappointing behavior.
My partner asked for one of these for Christmas. I kinda' kicked the can because I was so wary of Bambu and mentioned... well... that they'd probably do something like this. The timing is almost comedic.
appreciate this is a quick throw together video but your captions were hidden under the subs if you can avoid putting them right at the bottom in future i woudl be very grateful.
!00% agree. I have stayed away from Bambu as I hated the closed nature and them forcing you to connect ot internet (which no single IOT device should do imho). And yes Creality will be the beneficiary. I hope Prusa ups their game a bit so they become the obvious go to again. Qidi is definitely a great choice at the moment too for open the box and print experience.
Thanks for the heads-up, Jeff. I have been saving for a Bambu 3d printer but this action has made me think twice about purchasing one. @5:04 That is not going to happen. Executive management at most corporations have bought into the WEF's dream of "consumer's don't own anything, and need a subscription to pay".
Amazin* how much goodwill Bambi Labs is burning with this latest move. Nearly all the makers I watch went from ‘strong recommend’ to ‘hold off’ or ‘no’.
Before anyone gets on the defensive about this, I still think there are plenty of people who will be happy with a Bambu Lab printer, I'm not trying to rain on their parade.
I use a Mac as my primary workstation ;)
Yeah, it's a tough one. Bambu is really good at noob printers. Prusa isn't low cost, but is also *really* good. Maybe a used prusa is the way to go.
I just wanted to say something about Mac...😄 But I am the same... I have a Bambu P1P and a Mac Mini but also couple Linux machines.
Time to add a label onto it "Avoid bambu" in case it's in any background footage.
And a Mac continues to be much more open than any current Windows machine. Also much faster, even ignoring CPU.
Bambuzled
I find it so weird that a 3D printer manufacturer would be surprised their customers prefer to have DIY as an option.
well yeah, i mean the main reason 90% of consumers buy bambu is because there is no DIY or tinkering. yes there's that 10% of hobbyists who want to tinker with it, but 90% really don't care.
@@sourrlemons The irony is that people buying 3d prints are printing things to DIY, not necessarily to tinker with a printer itself
They are new at this, made the rookie mistake of doing this too soon, before people became too dependent to their products.
@@teresashinkansen9402 And thank goodness for that! They could have had near-total lock-in of the market in a few years, but this blunder will give a MAJOR boost to their more open-platform competition.
@@sourrlemons Where are you getting that number? 90% sounds like you pulled it out of the air to just validate your personal preference.
Can I point out the pure _irony,_ that they did this for "security", and it resulted in a lot of people completely stopping firmware updates, and making their printer _less_ secure? Great job Bambu!
Just a pure distilled bullshit argument
even worst, the new app have been hacked and private encryption key shared openly, by so, it proves Bambu were right saying there is someone, out there, that has all the tool and capabilities to be destructive (even that was not to be demonstrated).
CN device, CN firmware, CN servers - yeah, security
Nothing more secure than a LAN only device, blocked from the internet/cloud.
@@EvanOfTheDarkness oh my printer is secure, it’s now behind a firewall and will never get access to the internet.
As an engineer I don’t understand why LAN isn’t the default for communicating with the printer. Cloud should be the secondary if you want to print remotely. It was ridiculous you needed to enable a “LAN Only” mode to use LAN. It shouldn’t be one or the other. And this new requirement to authenticate with the cloud for LAN is bs. This developer mode is an appeasement. And they are gas lighting the community calling the concerns misinformation. The community should still be pushing back on this. We’ve tolerated it this far, but if they want good will LAN needs to be the default with no strings attached.
Should be LAN only by default... and if you *want*, you can sign it into a cloud service. That's how the Prusa works, and I thought that made sense. Or just no cloud service at all, like my other older printers :)
"No strings attached" should apply to every facet of hardware ownership. You think it's OK for Craftsman to come into my shop and tell me that using my 15/16" combination wrench as a prybar and a hammer is forbidden?
It's MINE. I bought it, I will use it any way I want. Sure, if I abuse it and break it, that's on me, but they have no right to dictate how I use my own tools and/or devices.
We live in strange times. My LG AC cooler with "smart" options - connected to smarphone via LG cloud even if smatphone and AC is in the same wifi network. Dont have "LAN" option. I hope LG dont shout down cloud server ones days...or give firmware update with LAN option before shout down servers.
I'm pushing back by never giving them my money. Creality is getting my money.
If more consumers understood that draconian overreach followed by half-appeasement to psychologically condition them into accepting net-sacrificial "compromise" was standard business practice in the world today we'd all have a lot more money and personal agency over our products, and by extension our lives. And the attitude of apologists to spin discontent as entitlement after the spirit of a EULA is repeatedly breached and changed without notice is nothing less than gaslighting. Half the time it feels like the loudest bootlickers are members of a cult of entrapment despite most of them not being influencers or having any sort of financial compensation for bad-faith defense of predatory tactics.
In sociology and economics it's called the Ratchet Effect.
Its the classic Plauge Inc strategy.
Make the disease highly contagious but ultimately harmless, then mutate the virus to where it becomes deadly.
As for Bambu’s version, make a really good printer, then trigger a firmware update.
Bamboo: I shall now hold all my customers as prisoners!
Everyone leaves immediately.
Bamboo: Wait, guys I was only joking!
Pure irony: they want to bring out a new firmware for 'security'.. but like a day after.. their private keys (as in the security keys of that supposedly secure connection) are already leaked!
Almost as if irony and karma has a baby…
Definitely didn't learn from sony's mistake with the PS3. The maker comunity are the ones with the skills to reverse engineer your hardware, don't piss them off.
its not irony, its pure logic... if you are spying your customers what they are printing or you make their printer to connect to your servers to be able to print, that is opening backdoor for hackers...
This is what happens when accountants and the marketing department have to much power at companies.
Just the key that signs the communication from the "connector" to the printer.
Still a private key, but not the most important one we could get our hands on.
Classic story. Company makes good product at competitive price and builds consumer goodwill. Company sacrifices consumer goodwill for a fast profit. Loss of goodwill leads to loss of sales and increases customer interest in competitors.
Everyone loses out in the long run.
You missed a few parts of the classic story:
The company sells the product at a loss, or with razor thin margins, during stage 1 specifically to get a large captive customer base.
The company pivots during stage 2 to lock down customers and stop them from finding ways out of their (future) hyper monetised system.
Stage 3 (optional), the frog in a boiling pot.
Stage 4, the captive customer market pays subscription charges which is the REAL way they make money. But hey, it's cheaper and easier than moving to a different brand
Apple, Netflix, Amazon prime, bambu - they all do it because it works
Company didn't sacrifice consumer goodwill for a fast profit if that their goal all along, not goodwill.
Capitalism
This is exactly what happens when the accounting and marketing departments have to much power at a company.
@@AsheLucia "Because Capitalism" is a thought-terminating meme. Greed and corruption existed before capitalism. It's becoming more of emotion loaded baggage rather having any actual meaning.
Bamboo: "Ah ha! A foot!"
* bang! *
Bamboo: "Ouchie! My foot!"
My foot!
@@Ouchie 🤣
They just shit the bed of those that pay their bills.
Exceptionally stupid- and no way to undo the damage they just caused their brand. Too late now, wow.
@@JoeGator23Bamboo: haha, a bed…
@@CoryMck Bamboo: ahh, shit!
So, Bamboo has finally reached a high enough market cap to no longer hide the Enshittification
Go woke go broke.
@@FlintStone-c3s I think you have it backwards, friend. "Woke" is the embracing of freedom and equality (and at worst, DEI stuff for political brownie points).
The word you're looking for is "late-stage capitalism".
The problem for me is that they even considered making this change to everybody's printers in the first place. Loads of people are out there saying "Oh, see, they put out a blog update and it's all OK now" and they're just missing the point entirely; if _any_ company says they're "improving security" by making normal operation dependent on their cloud authentication service, they're either lying or incompetent because that's _not_ how security works. It's a straight indication that they either can't be trusted because they're shady, or they can't be trusted because they don't understand the fundamentals of network security; either way, the result is the same.
My P1S was due for an upgrade when the H2D comes out for large-format printing (which I need, but I've been putting it off to work with Bambu's timescales). That's not happening any more, and I see a K1 Max or K2 Plus in my near future.
Exactly, they've lost trust permanently now, just like Xbox One and Unity. The damage is done.
Same here, was waiting on H2D but now it's a K2 plus. It'll fit nice with my 5s1.
Crazy how Bambu threw their reputation right onto the ground in a week.
As a 3d printing outsider I've been seeing all of their sponsor spots in videos lately and was thinking a Bambu would be a great first printer for me if I get into the hobby.
No thanks anymore Bambu
same, same
It's expensive, but I highly recommend getting a Prusa. You pay more up front, but you have to pay less on the back end because you don't need to do nearly as many repairs. I use Prusas and Bambus professionally for engineering prototypes, and both have been great, but the Bambus have way more failed prints and mechanical breakdowns. The Prusas just work and just keep working forever. You could also get one of the many excellent Prusa clones like Sovol. It's just worth getting a good tool that works well instead buying a cheap tool you'll have to replace immediately, like a Creality printer. I think this is generally the way to approach buying any tool. Buy the good one now, instead of a cheap one then the good one.
Same.
@@evanbarnes9984 I'm sorry, Prusa is still a joke. Their printers where great 5-6 years ago, even Creality is a better option right now.
You know they considered how the community would react and still decided to do it anyway. Crazy.
Jeff, I am the technical director of BTT. Thank you for making this video and these points.
💀lies
@@FarmerHotdog He's not Bambu, BTT (BigTreeTech) is a different company.
@@FarmerHotdog Honestly, after the last few days I actually wish that I was lying. Alas, I am not.
Honestly, I hope bigtreetech offers a drop in motherboard for bambu printers so you can just run klipper and copy paste a profile for a stock machine and be in your way.
@@looxonline May I ask if BTT is releasing a new version of the Raspberry Pad 5 or 7 with CM5 support?
their keys got extracted but who wants to fight their software updates
It's like trying to keep a Hackintosh running long-term. I don't want to deal with that mess every few weeks/months.
@@Level2Jeff Yeah, I don't want to pay someone to be a second-class citizen in their ecosystem.
It was not the keys you think.
@@Level2Jeff It's pretty clear that it's not like that at all. So far (so far) it doesn't seem any different than using any commercial Android phone, tablet, Google TV box, Mac, iOS device, etc.
Thing is if things work there's no necessity to update often. But I understand your approach. I'm not recommending them either. If they take away this what's next some subscription for network use...
Ah yes, connecting something to the internet.
A well know way to decrease your attack surface and make something more secure.
Makes perfect sense Bambu
TY for U'r feedback. I was just about to get a X1C, but had to pump the brakes on that purchase.
I've been a huge proponent of Bambu Labs printers, they're the best on the market by a mile. If they'd decided to lock down new printers, well that would be regrettable. But retrospectively removing abilities from machines already in the field is illegal in some countries and immoral everywhere. I won't be buying another BL printer and won't recommend them.
And standard operating procedure for Sony...
@@0LoneTech and hp ;)
"best on the market by a mile" Only if price is your main measure, they aren't the best otherwise.
Sonos and apple are calling.
Canon would like to have a word about your webcam subscription
I have a mid-level enterprise firewall, the Bambu printer I have will never see the internet again
I need to figure out what I need to do to keep mine the way it is (working). It has been turned off a few months now and I’m scared to turn it back on lol
Take it far from your home network and power it on, maybe switch it to a local-only mode @@leafjerky
You said how I feel about a lot of IOT devices when you said "It should be local by default and cloud as an add on" . Sadly, it seems companies don't understand that.
That means the company only captures the initial hardware purchase value, not ongoing subscription value! Gah.
@@Level2Jeff True, but that would give them an incentive to actually make qaulity, user friendly, and secure cloud services. Instead we get typical junk like Ring cameras, HP's garbage, etc.. nothing but a money grab that feeds on the tech illiterate who falsely believe a company has your best interest at heart.
They understand. They are trying to boil the frog, so to speak. They are trying to manipulate their customer base into accepting a market being the way that they as a corporation want it to be, rather than serving a product that the customers demand.
@@Level2Jeffand that’s why Zigbee is so damn expensive over IoT light switches and thermostats.
yep, I was about to pull the trigger on a Bambu printer but am now definitely looking for alternatives.
Literally days away from buying this printer as my first. Looks like it's time to have a rethink... I really hope Bambu take notice.
Looking forward to a new recommendation video soon ☺
They've been so dominating that Prusa stopped developing open-source printers, just to keep up.
I don't think this matters to most users, despite these recent videos. I can't see how it's going to affect me at all. I've been using the X1C for 3 months and it's the best printer by a long way. Make your own mind up but this has been blown out of all proportion as far as I can see.
@ I think it's a spirit of the announcement over the volume of people affected. Given the community sprang up by open collaboration and open sourcing this is a bit of a dick move. Sets a precident for the future, like Apple removing headphone jacks...
@BenjiRayson fair enough, but 3 out of the last 6 (different) printers I've had have be closed eco system, and on the whole I prefer it. The Bambu has been the exception where it was open, and now it's closed but I only used with Bambu Studio which does everything i want and more. If it had started life like this, nobody would be bothered. The Bambu hardware has always been closed, but it works brilliantly.
@@Notagain640 Oh no argument here, I suppose it's just nice to... Have a backup plan? The chances of me getting a Bambu still are high, but if next month they do a whole new bit of software we don't like or it's broken we're SOL for alternatives lol
This video should be on the main channel. What BambuLab did is ridiculous!
I try to separate the two channels (since most people watch YT by algo and not by subscriptions anymore) to have this channel be more off the cuff and 'old YT' style, and the main channel be the more polished / long term videos where I have more time to devote to script, testing, editing, etc.
@@Level2Jeff It's not really about what content fits where, it's about letting people know that a product you showed off has been dramatically altered by it's company in antagonistic ways that dramatically changes the value proposition. Seeing Bambu in videos on RUclips like your Fractal case video has made me consider purchasing one for its ease of use - and I would certainly want to know that doing so would now be a terrible idea.
You main channel has over 10x the viewership, so while I keep up with your second channel and the 3D printing community, many of your viewers do not, particularly since Bambu has always been marketed as the "it just works" printer for people who don't want to keep up with the 3D printing community more broadly.
@@Level2Jeff I hope you polish this video up and release it on the main channel dude
I agree, should be on the main channel, even if it’s just a 30 seconds video to warn the people you recommended it to
@@Level2Jeff A video on how to spot products that could go subscription only or obsolete if the vendor decides to stop support could be worthy of a main channel video.
Thanks for talking about this Jeff!
We talked a bunch on stream yesterday and intend to dig deeper this week for a video later this week.
It 100% feels all about control, not being able to use your printer on your own LOCAL NETWORK without their new cloud program.. yeah, no dice. and yes 100% feels like HP! Not only are there better ways, the community has given them plenty of options. It appears they want to force users online, lock them out of 3rd party anything, including slicers without convoluted systems to make it difficult, but there is also plenty of hinting towards a farm software in the SAAS market, which would likely rely on these keys to enable your printer to function. Since the keys are tied to the printer until the software gives it a new one as well, this could very well brick the second hand market for Bambu's but we have yet to see the extent of control they have with this software. It is well more than we feel comfortable with though.
Not to mention their "solution" is basically just allowing us to keep the same level of functionality (they never said they'll give us access to SD card in LAN mode) that we already have had forever, but it might also void your warranty it seems. Absolutely disgusting. We ALREADY have FTP and MQTT access to the machines, have for a long time, saying they'll "allow" us access to these going forward isn't a concession, it's an insult.
wait im very lost. I got a P1S (my first ever 3d printer) only a month ago... what is the context on all this?
They have got the enshitification virus.
They are DJI engineers after all...
I don't think you know what that word means. Look it up.
@@ChippWalters textbook usage of enshittification: "Enshittification is a term used to describe the gradual decline in quality of online products and services. It's also known as crapification and platform decay."
@@ChippWaltersIt applies. Good product made worse through greed is textbook enshitening.
@@ChippWalters It means exactly this, I think you need to look it up.
Thank you for standing with the community. The blog post slapping the community in the face, pretending the dev option was always there, is an insult to the collective intelligence. Chinese Bambu devs calling out “misinformation”, yet never disproving anything, is pathetic.
I had plans to upgrade to a new printer. I was going to go Bambu. The day before I was going to buy, they made that announcement.
I'm now a proud owner of a K1C.
Seriously in the same boat here. How is the K1C? That was one a friend recommended to me as well. Been looking to upgrade from my Ankermake M5.
@@sushibot12 Been working flawlessly since I got it set up yesterday. I've printed about 5-6 jobs with about 20 hours of run time.
The only thing that's a bummer is the build plate is smaller than the P1S, and I didn't have the cash for the K1 Max.
Functionally and setup wise, this have been excelent.
I've been using an ender 3 pro for the last 3-4 years with inconsistent results. Already my K1C is printing bigger and better prints than I ever was able to on the ender 3, but that's not really a surprise since it's 2-3 times the price.
Long story short, I'm super happy with it.
Creality is just as much of a scumbag company so you really didn't do anything special here.
@@The_Quashyou’re a charmer.
Every company has its issues. I find Bambu’s recent decision particularly distasteful.
Imagine designing a product for a community whose whole thing is tinkering, building, and modifying, and thinking those people would be okay with locked down products and closed ecosystems. There's no universe where people wouldn't just immediately start hacking their printers.
Honestly I do not think that’s what they designed the machines for. These were a real attempt to get 3D printers in more homes by making them easy and reliable. Some people just want their appliance to work with minimal tinkering. Now this lockdown nonsense is a bad move 100% but in the long run it will only matter if someone else steps up and fills the temporary void. That void is a low to mid priced machine that just works 90% of the time.
Coming from resin printing to FDM I was shocked by how many tinker needed Jenky stuff gets sold. Most resin machines are pretty easy to use at on level. They are messy and all that but the machines all
Pretty much can print out of the box
I have the feeling their userbase is composed in majority by people having no knowledge in anything regarding 3d printing ...
The people I know who have Bambu printers will not care
gotta have that shareholders happy
@@Kronekomics Almost any FDM printer, especially 2024 and 2025, can print out of the box. The issues only come when you're chasing the best quality a FDM machine can offer and incredible speeds.
Mr Rossman has given them his famous finger and dared them to come after him so now it's definately very much 'out there'!
*defanitely (sorry)
@@michaelknight2342 still wrong (sorry)
@@_Jester_ Yup, that was definitely still wrong. 😆
*defanately (sorry)
@@michaelknight2342 wtf? defanitely?
3:46 I am glad that you already found the workaround. I was going to send it to you if you didn't mention it.
"If purchasing is not ownership, then piracy is not stealing".
love that last sentence ❤
Unless the driver or firmware is open-source, you don't fully own any piece of equipment. However, Bambu is so tone-deaf to use a hard hand on a DYI community
The part that will bite them in the butt the most is going to be the chunk of creative users migrating away from the Bambu ecosystem & Makerworld.
They were popular because the devices were decently well made, decently priced with good features that worked without fussing. That popularity brought people designing print files & projects that would work well with minimal user input, further increasing their popularity.
That positive feedback loop is breaking apart, it might turn into a company death-spiral like many industries have seen over the years.
i was a few days from buying same setup as you........... thank god... i manage to wait out
I picked up a P1S over black Friday and I've been absolutely loving it; which makes this recent firmware changes rather disappointing. I knew when I purchased it that it's more closed source than most competitors, but the value for price is what sold me on it and while I'll keep using mine. I'll avoid upgrading the firmware until I'm forced to update.
Ditto.
Hopefully someone makes a replacement control board or hacks the firmware to be able to run Klipper or something. I'd go that route in a heartbeat.
Should've got a qidi q1 $400 enclosed heated chamber core xy running klipper. Bambu doesn't even come close certaintly not for the price.
@@Level2Jeff once you replace the firmware they will have lost their edge and will be no different than any other commodity printer.
@@DieselRamcharger yes, and now it's an advantage
@@thirtythreeeyes8624 the P1S was absolutely the right printer for me. I appreciate the benefit of the Bambu community size and relative ease of use so I can focus on printing, not optimizing (of course other printers are like this now, but I felt Bambu was particularly easy to use).
I just got a P1S about two months back and have been super happy. I've recommended the printer to at least a half dozen other people in that time. Not only am I no longer recommending the printer to anyone, but this whole fiasco has made me so disappointed in BL that I'm now trying to recall all the people I've spoken with in order to rescind my recommendations. I think someone high up at BL has ideas of becoming Apple and owning a walled garden of 3D printing. They're not near unique nor popular enough for that to happen in a marketplace where the Android has already happened.
Ya 100% they want to be apple or DJI and they will likely continue on that path because it worked for them and their target demographic isn't the people who care about things like this. Personally I never liked them because it was obvious this was the type of company they are. Benefiting off the open source community while locking down their machines and giving nothing back to the community that paved the road for them.
Thank you, Jeff! We're paying close attention to creators on how they react to this, your platform is important, thank you for using it to raise awareness!
OMG! I was going to pull the trigger and buy a Bamboo today. Thank you for the heads-up. This over reach by the manufacturer is unacceptable.
No, once a company tries to stick the tip in, you have to write them off unless something absolutely major happens. They obviously want this, and them backtracking doesn't mean they'll stop, they'll just boil the frog a little slower.
I think you pretty much summed up my response.
Previously I would have kept on the stock firmware, but now I'll definitely be looking at thirdparty firmwares.
As another RUclipsr commented "Don't ever underestimate pissed off nerds"
Bambu's response is right out of the Wolf Warrior playbook. They stopped short of complaining that any criticism hurts the Chinese people and that they demand an apology otherwise expect sanctions and import bans from your country!
***BINGO***
We should not have to settle for having to jailbreak our 3D printers. See: paper printer DRM and hardware lock-in.
Thank you so much for making this video. Lots of creators are completely quiet here.
Ah I just got into Home Assistant a month ago and this made me go down the rabbit hole of FULLY self hostable and offline smart devices
Yeah, I was shopping for my first printer, stuck between Bambu and Prusa. This has made the decision incredibly easy. I was already leaning towards Prusa prior to this fiasco. Community matters.
Take a look at flashforge 5m, you can load full klipper on it
My research lab uses prusa, it's good. It's expensive too, I think
If you can afford the new prusa core xy that's probably a good choice but, I'm extremely happy with my $400 qidi q1 and would take it over the prusa even without price considerations because I need the heated chamber for the parts and materials I print.
@@thirtythreeeyes8624 thanks for the rec, I'll check it out.
I ordered the core one. Can't wait.
I finally ordered one of these and it came and now I'm going to have to return it. It had all the features I wanted, but they do not get to own something I have bought and paid for.
Totally agree there should never be a "bait and switch." Bambu is off the list. Thank Jeff.
I'm so glad you are able (and more importantly willing) to speak up about this issue and bring it to more people's attention. Thanks Jeff.
Thanks for this. They’ve been giving away printers right and left to RUclipsrs, so it’s good to hear RUclips creators calling them out.
Jeff, you have my respect for making this video.
I've been deeply disappointed in the complete absence of coverage from all the large 3d printing channels.
I do think this topic deserves consideration for a main channel video, simply because the rest of the large tech community seems to be ignoring it.
Just my 2 cents, thanks again for putting this out there.
This is why nobody should ever take sponsorship from any company in the industry their videos are about.
The previous plug-in was already a big hindrance, as you couldn't just enter the printers IP. This caused the printers to not be usable when operating a dedicated IoT network. (Yes, you could relay/forge the multicast packages, I know). I had several Bambus in my "to buy"-queue, but was waiting due to the bad plug-in and hoping for better networking support. Now I no longer have to wait - Bambu disqualified themselves.
My son just yesterday passed on Bambu for fear of future lockdowns.
He bought an open source kit printer instead.
RatRig?
@@mzaite No clue, all I know is it was pretty expensive and big.
Could you ask him, pretty please? 🥹
@@mikebarry7054 prusa prolly
@ got my eye on a 500x500mm + why I asked. These baby printers gotta stop.
Jeff, i think this is actually a pretty good subject for your main channel. Your audience reach is the kind of thing you could use to plant a little seed and sensibilize more people. And then kindly remind companies that once the product is sold there is still a service expected...
I find it ironic that a company that makes 3d printers, something designed to empower creativity and independence is putting restrictions on said creative device
I had three Creality models starting with CR-10 S4, and now K1 Max.
My CR-10 is just keeping dust, since I have no energy anymore to tinker around.
So I was afraid to buy K1 Max, but got one open box for half the price.
And wow, I am printing all the time. It printed more in these several months than what I print in last 4 years.
They really jumped their game, it took me around 30 minutes to set it up and that is all.
So, I would surely recommend it.
One thing I hope Creality won't stop doing is opening up their firmware to GitHub
Crealitys quality control, or lack thereof, has always been my problem. But they do seem to have upped their game a bit. Got a K2 plus on its way.
I'm going to have to look at those. My Ender 3 has been gathering dust for at least 2 years now because it needs work and I'm tired of constantly having to mess with it. I just want something that's going to work out of the box and has multi-filament support.
@@DarrenPoulson Cool. let's hope the K2 will be great too. Let us know.
Yep. This is why I not only don't buy HP printers anymore but also don't buy anything HP anymore. These companies just don't learn. Of course, Apple is the biggest offender of this type of attitude.
I agree on the HP consumer side, but hp business hardware is far better and as far as I know doesn't have any of the consumer bullshit in there.
No business buys hardware that has a cloud account as a requirement.
meanwhile laughs in HP ecotank..?
Please tell me what the issue is with Apple? If you don’t like it then don’t use it? I use both android and apple. Apple is and security is a lot better. However they are both tools and they are both great devices. Yes it’s easier to root android but you can still jailbreak iPhone. But I’m not 15 anymore my phone is a tool and it’s more than good enough for me. Any time I have to help my parents with their s21 or 23 ultra it’s a nightmare
@@GizmoTheGreen Epson makes the Ecotank.
@Adabulldoya living under a rock? Apple constantly makes it difficult for third party repair shops, that repair out of warranty gear and in warranty gear for half the price.
They block cheaper third party replacement parts.
Not allowing older phones to fully charge the battery. Not allowing third party shops, not allowing other cheaper payment methods for subscriptions. You could go on and on. I'm not sure Apple is the worst, but they certainly are not the most consumer friendly.
Forcing you to use the cloud to access your printer will allow Bambu to monetize access to your printer.
Pay them $$$$ for a cloud account and more for prints over a certain size or place other functionality you presently posess behind a paywall.
They can also disallow printing parts for devices & machines at the request of third parties.
I've printed replacement gears for servo motors and control unit cases in 80's & 90's vehicles. GM Ford Chrysler Nissan ... could conceivably send Bambu a cease & desist to stop this. Just spitballing but you get the point.
Bampoo could integrate AI in their cloud, to analyse geometry of your printfiles, and refuse to print Mickey Mouse figures, Lego-like and/or gun-like objects.
The possibilities are endless. The future is now :(
I think this is a bit tinfoil hat. Yes they could do all this and more! But will they? Will they spend all this time and effort for little to no reward? Only time will tell.
Adobe's TOS now claims that they have right to all of your IP created through their software. With all of your 3D prints going thru bambu's server, what's to stop them pulling the same stunt?
No thanks.
So I just started 3-D printing around Christmas. I bought two bamboo printers and probably would’ve bought quite a few more in the future. Their changes to force using their ecosystem have convinced me to go in a different direction. I’m also going to be trying to return both of my printers.
The Anycubic Kobra s1, has a very similar feature set. Their AMS system is also a dryer and works with more filament spool types and their slicer is based on Orca with LAN mode.
Boycott all subscription services. They make it impossible to cancel, and they sign you up for autopay, whether you approve or not.
That's just the US and other shit countries, civilized parts of the world have laws against that. Cancelling any subscription must be as easy as signing up. That is how the law actually defines that in my country.
@@bzuidgeest Exactly. Blame the United States of Trump, and US lawmakers that allowed it. We in EU can cancel any subscription at any point in time, with a single email.
@lordwafflesthegreat I'm no fan of Trump, but those issues are decades old in the US. Blame Trump for the shit he actually does, there is enough of that already
@@lordwafflesthegreatTrump has nothing to do w/ it. Leave your political bias out of it. It anything blame the companies for using dark patterns.
Side note, I haven’t found it hard to cancel subscriptions in the US. Even when companies use shitty practices to make it hard.
@@lordwafflesthegreat crazy you say blame trump for the difficulty in cancelling subscriptions. when the FTC just passed a new rule that means all companies in the US that offer subscriptions MUST make it as easy to cancel as it is to sign up. it's the "one-click cancel" rule and it has already passed and all businesses must comply by April
It appears that BamBoozal took a page out of Ring Camera's upgrade, which was a downgrade that took away the ability to instantly record and stop. These are two companies so far. Consumers must boycott these companies, or more will follow!
They are followers. Sony did one of the worst downgrades 2010-04-01, the April Fool's that never ended.
The end state I see for this is BTT or someone else making replacement boards for Bambu products with standard Klipper on it.
I would buy that in a _heartbeat_ at this point. Just give me Klipper.
Good sir, that project was initiated yesterday. The Panda Cyborg is the community recommended name for it at the moment. Open to suggestions.
@@Level2Jeff Same!! This BL news has really been upsetting, even tho they are considered the affordable way into 3d printing (not really.) I paid over $1k for my P1S, I would not have even considered them if I knew this was going to happen.
@@looxonline I would love to see that! Keep the P1S frame, motion system and possibly extruder, a drop in replacement board with Klipper and related stuff, with a Panda Touch-like screen running Klipper Screen.
@@looxonlineoh, I’d love to see that.
Surprise, Jeff is not a 3D printer… maybe red shirt Jeff is…? 4:16
I have always preferred reviewers who have shown independence.
The ability to point out the Pros AND the Cons makes my final decision more informed.
Pointing out the changes in company behaviour, and how it impacts the buying choice, makes a great video. Thanks!
100% correct response! I stopped buying HP when they pulled their similar bait-&-switch. Was convinced to buy Bambu until this happened. That purchase is now dead. As a general rule, I'm refusing ANY purchase that requires cloud callback to function: Alexa, Siri, Google Home. If I can't operate 100% locally, it won't be happening here.
Same.
I'm waiting on 2 P1S combos to ship. Watching closely & possibly will cancel the order & return the entire order of filament & spare/upgrade parts I received last week for these machines.
The only recourse we have is to vote with our wallets.
please do
This is more than just Bambu Lab. If Bambu can get away with this, there will be nothing to stop other corporations to follow this cony scheme.
The is the norm, not the exemption. Bambu labs isn't doing anything 1000 companies are doing right now. Some of the most popular ones.. if anything what Bambu did here pales in comparison to Apple, Facebook, Netflix, Amazon, Tesla, etc...
@@ScottRahner We're talking about 3d printers which have always been dyi friendly (or even dyi required). What are you trying to say?
@ Not sure what your question has to do with my comment. I was replying to @dekurvajo who said this is bad because other companies might figure this out and also be bad, and I was pointing out that Bambu is copying the homework of many companies before not the other way around.
Well, this one is not DIY friendly, and plenty of people ignored that fact when they bought it. If they were to pull an HP and start blocking 3rd party filament, I could understand the outrage.
I never purchased one of Bambu's printers for fear of this very thing, instead I use the K1 range and jailbroke them the moment I powered them up, and they are now blocked from internet access.
Jeff thank you for speaking up. I feel Bambu makes exceptional printers, but their policies and big brother approach is the reason I have not and will not purchase there products.
1:30 not a mk4s upgrade kit, this are Haribo Goldbears
You know you're in a bad place when you say "I might go back to Creality again"
nothing wrong with that if u like to tinker
@@owencrawford8416 this was his answer to having to stop recommending Bambu Lab as a printer to newcomers to the hobby.
@@owencrawford8416ngl my experience with recent Creality is that you can tinker if you want but you don't have to, their printers work pretty well as they are. Early on maybe not, but as the product matures it becomes more refined.
I am a Creality user and had been thinking of upgrading, and maybe Prusa? My Ender 3 S1 Pro it’s pretty decent, and all of the parts are replaceable.
Oh the irony, I literally got a bambu lab ad on this video
Best open-source promotion ever, thanks Bambu!
I have a small machine shop and large format 3D printer, and had chosen the Bamboo as my next printer. But now I'm having to delay my decision, reevaluating what to buy.
I've pretty much written off Bamboo because it's not a just a design decision. It's a marketing philosophy driving product development, possibly a roadmap.
So they may as well plunge forward, not backtrack because they've already lost trust and should capitalize on their captured clientele, & squeeze all the profits they can during this short window of opportunity.
It's a shame though. It's hard getting the kind of following they once had.
I have a Qidi Tech printer. A feature I really wanted was the printer works on my local network, no Qidi app or cloud connection. This has also been reliable so far.
X1plus firmware and Orca Slicer are probably the way forward. Would love to see those pick up speed.
Yeah bbl reddit is aware of that and more people are jumping. I have a warranty claim to finish before I can lmao
Working on a project where we're about to equip a company with a replacement fleet of 3D printers. Some 243 UK locations were going to get a BL X1 - I stopped that procurement this morning. We'll now reevaluate our recommendations, certainly won't be BL anytime soon. If they do it once, they will do it again. But it's getting harder to find honest manufacturers these days. It's a shame it was too late for another customer that have just bought 40 of them, but not too bigger deal to keep them offline; they would never have had direct WAN access anyway... Won't be buying anymore...
I'm not sure exactly what their business relations are like, but the warranty and general hardware support I've received from Prusa has been nothing but incredible for half a decade now. The mk4s is as "unbox and press go" as the X1, if not moreso. It's more expensive, but I'd hope BL's actions here show that you often get what you pay for. Best of luck with your search.
We've been on this enshittification process long enough to be able to spot the signs because of known cases in pretty much all areas you can imagine. It all started with the RFID spools, which many dismissed as just a feature so the machine could identify the filament forgetting Juicero had the same system for their juice packs. Then the cloud requirements. Eventually, they'll remove the ability to use third party software and have a subscription service in order for the printer to work. The question here is not whether they'll implement those changes or not, but when will they do it.
I was planning to buy a p1s but now I will wait and see… it kinda sucks because I was really excited but had before the same issue when a company closed some servers and I wasn’t able to use their software anymore.
They f***ked up, big time and there attitude is kind of bad but they did at least give the developer mode that will keep it working exactly as it does now. We should be vigilant and keep an eye on them but the sad fact is that if you want a reasonably priced printer that has all the features the bambus have and want them to just work they are currently the only game in town.
That's what pains me... like how could they not have known the immediate backlash they'd get. If they had said "our defaults are going to tighten down security, but we're adding a developer mode you can turn on to keep current behavior" this whole thing would've been almost a nothingburger.
@@Level2Jeff Yes if they had said that then it would have not been a problem. Also needs a way to activate without connecting to the internets. I am going to keep an eye on the X1P firmware and the project to modify the printer to install clipper on them(needs extensive hardware mods tho). Whist i firmly believe that was incompetence and not malicious behaviour just need to see how things go over the next few months. I kind of see them like Apple in a way, for me its limiting the restrictions but for a normal person who just wants it to work its prob the best option at the moment.
I think this is a golden opportunity for sovol to step up, they make good printers and they make a voron inspired flying gantry coreXY printer and they give money back to the voron project with every printer they sell ( that is based off the voron design). They have made mistakes in the past not following the GPL but when this happened they immediately apologised and corrected the problem. If they had a software stack similar to bambu and a decent AMS system that would be something to look at. We also have prusa with the coreOne, they need a better AMS system , the current prusa filament change system is nowhere near on the level of the bambu AMS.
I dont trust creality at all, i have heard horror sorties about there printers failing after a few weeks/ months, could just be me tho.
@@Level2Jeffthats right, but they could not have done that, because the "developer mode" is backtracking with the effort to make it not look like backtracking.
they probably did not anticipate the severeness of sales drops and/or cancellation that happened over the last few days.
how could they know, their user base is not mostly casual people, but tech guys that wanted to run a cheap printer?
they most likely got their customer demographics totally skewed, and this is an attempt to mitigate huge losses.
@@Level2JeffSo freaking true. They fucked up communicating the message from square one. Now they will need to work extra hard to earn back that lost trust. Maybe they don't have a great public communications department (is it one guy)? Or maybe it was a forced change from somewhere else and they had to comply? It just feels weird to me.
Time to build a Voron 🙂
Haha don't tempt me!
@@Level2Jeff There has never been a better time and as a bonus you have a machine that can print whole mini racks ;)
@@Level2Jeff Buy the Sovol SV08, you don't have the time for a Voron. You have some Kernel compiling to do 😆
Not the best but they promised to donate to the Voron project and they have donated 3000USD. It's open, don't know if it's normal open Klipper or something Sovol made.
Do it. Stream it. Enjoy it.
From Tom's Hardware review of Sovol SV08:
The Sovol SVO8 is a very fast, large open-frame Core XY 3D printer built to Voron specs. Naturally, it runs Vanilla Klipper firmware and is totally open-source. Its 350 x 350 mm build plate is quite spacious and, though it looks very simple, it still has perks like automatic Quad Gantry leveling, LED lights and a built-in camera.
What really sets the SV08 apart - besides speed - is Sovol’s desire to pay tribute to Voron and not just knock off another clone. The manufacturer is donating $2 to the Voron Design Team for every SV08 sold.
Thanks for the heads up, helps me limit my search to get into the space much quicker!
As the creator of a third-party accessory that depended on the MQTT api, we always knew they "could" shutdown the api and accepted the risk.
However the way they are doing it is very poorly executed and has bad optics. There are simpler ways to increase security without removing features such as oauth or an mqtt proxy. I've contacted their dev team and all 3 times they responded with a nonsense and insulting answer why they won't do that.
I cannot agree more than this with you. This is ridiculous and unacceptable. Creality has making me very angry with tons of hardware problems and the stupid support which may be an AI because of how dumb the answers are, but man, blocking the usage by software is on another level. I was saving money to buy a bambu lab printer, which I may now spend on a Prusa XL I wanted because of the five extruders. Maybe with time and people using more the Prusa printers the price drops a little at least. The fact is, I am 100% willing to pay more to have the freedom Prusa offers with a awesome hardware.
Edit: oh and by the way, prusa doesn't sell their hardware here in Brasil, they send it here but the taxes are smashing 98% of the product price + shipment. If a Prusa printer is expensive for you guys in the north america, think how much it costs to us here in the south america. I may not be able to buy one even if I work my entire life until my last breath.
Ouch!!
It'd be nice if they could find a way to distribute locally, but I'm guessing it's a legal/tax thing causing that.
In the exact same boat, I'm not really a 3D printer creator but do 3D print a decent amount and was so disappointed by this whole thing.
As you say, the hardware is really good and they changed 3D printing for a lot of people, but why do they seem to find it so difficult to just build cool hardware and stop making bad decisions when it comes to the software side, then having to back track. Especially when the 3D printing community is known for being against this type of behaviour (rightfully so), it just makes no sense.
The "developer mode" is fine if they implement it, but at this point I've lost all trust that they won't do it again in the future. Guess I'm gonna enable LAN mode and block from the internet from now on 🤷🏻♂️
I was literally about to buy a a couple of units for the workshop but I'm just gonna get more Prusas instead now
I just bought one. Haven't even set it up yet. Now I want to send it back.
Same
I had just bought an A1 and was so excited to finally get into the 3D printing world...now I'm just waiting to finalize the return process to send it back. You played yourself Bambu.
100% Thanks for the post, I'm in the market, and this company's 3d printers were at the top of my "I want" list. But now the list has been reevaluated with Bambu Labs unfortunately stricken from the rolls. The cost was a retarding factor in the lack of speed on my purchasing it, but luckily this video came out before I pulled the trigger and took the plunge! Thanks again!
A couple weekends ago I had been planning to finally retire my old Ender 3 Pro and upgrade to a Bambulab P1S. Unfortunately, a snow storm blew through and delayed my trip to my local Micro Center to buy one. Now I'm glad I waited.
I completely agree. I recommended these printers, but I won’t be doing that anymore. And I was going to buy one of the new full-size versions when they released, but I probably won’t be doing now that either.
This is the same crap that HP did with their printers. If you use non-HP ink, it basically bricks the printer.
Most companys will want you to be a subscription model 😂 they want profit forever. Anyway I wanna say to those companys when you guys do that…you can 100% guarantee that I won’t buy your product.
That's why I no longer buy anything from HP.
Its nothing like what HP did. Try to keep the hyperbole under control perhaps.
Thanks for this video.
I really apppreciate you speaking clear and open words about the situation.
Thank you for sharing your opinion. I've been looking at getting into 3D printing, it's good to know what to steer clear of.
I have been fearing for this for a while, very sad...
I'm quite upset about this. I've been saving up for a Bambu because there aren't a lot of printers that stand up to the quality I've seen out of Bambu, and as someone who likes to tinker and homelab, this is just disappointing behavior.
Same. Will be avoiding them
If your printer does brick itself, please make a "Office Space" printer destruction video ;-)
Haha would be fun
It's a slam dunk "Red shirt Jeff" episode.
My partner asked for one of these for Christmas. I kinda' kicked the can because I was so wary of Bambu and mentioned... well... that they'd probably do something like this. The timing is almost comedic.
Can’t be that hard to reverse engineer the firmware and patch out the nonsense. But I still wouldn’t want to support them
appreciate this is a quick throw together video but your captions were hidden under the subs if you can avoid putting them right at the bottom in future i woudl be very grateful.
Sorry about that! I try to remember but in this case just quickly tossed up this video and didn't even think about the title placement
!00% agree. I have stayed away from Bambu as I hated the closed nature and them forcing you to connect ot internet (which no single IOT device should do imho).
And yes Creality will be the beneficiary. I hope Prusa ups their game a bit so they become the obvious go to again. Qidi is definitely a great choice at the moment too for open the box and print experience.
Thanks for the heads-up, Jeff. I have been saving for a Bambu 3d printer but this action has made me think twice about purchasing one.
@5:04 That is not going to happen. Executive management at most corporations have bought into the WEF's dream of "consumer's don't own anything, and need a subscription to pay".
Was contemplating one of these as my next FDM printer, when I had the money. I will be rethinking that decision when the time comes.
Amazin* how much goodwill Bambi Labs is burning with this latest move. Nearly all the makers I watch went from ‘strong recommend’ to ‘hold off’ or ‘no’.