Vertical Mill Tutorial 7a : Locating Features
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- This is Mill Skills, a multi-part series to help you learn basic machine shop work. Exclusive videos, drawings, models & plans available on Patreon!
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Наука
That's great - but stupid question coming up. Are all cutters the same length? Do you have to compensate for that regards the Z axis? I presume the cutter always sits the same distance inside the chuck as well, or that would throw you out? Sorting out space for a model metalwork shop now, aiming to make chips in about 6 months!
Not a stupid question at all, and something I should have explained. If you change your cutter, you lose your Z position and you have to do the shim trick or touch off again. For this reason, try to plan as many features as you can with the same cutter. There are tool changing systems that are repeatable in Z, but for simple tool holding in collets like this, we’re on our own. I’m gonna pin this question because a lot of people are asking and it’s a great one. Thanks for asking! 😁
Chris there are no stupid questions when you are new to any trade. I wish that You Tube was around when I started machining. It would of saved me alot of frustration. Just remember that nobody knows everything and you never stop leaning.This channel and Mr.Pete are great for beginners. Mr.Pete has hundreds of shop tips videos start at the beginning and go through them. Good luck to you.
@@andyZ3500s ill tell ya what, im in machinist school and im leqaps and bounds ahead of every one else cause i sit at home and watch every machining video i can
@@grymgaming5541 That's good to hear. This can be a game changer to get someone ahead. This could of took years off my learning curve. Just remember that you never stop leaning. Good luck to you.
One of the best reasons to touch off while the mill is running is because you can break the little teeth off your cutter very easy, and good cutters are not cheap. (Don't ask me how I know)
Quinn - Another great video . I am a toolmaker back from the stone age like1970, we had no DRO’s on any of the machines even in the die shops. One other touch method I used was to put a view layers of layout blue on the part with cutter running engage till is saw the bluing layer be cut by the milling cutter. For a hobby shop machine operator you are very highly skilled. Appreciate your excellent video content. Bill B
Skills are evolving, you should write a book..." On the species of origin "
I don’t know if you need to hear this at all, but I feel compelled to say (type) it anyway …
Dear Blindihacks,
You’re ace!
Fab channel. Excellent delivery. Brilliant insights. Fine demeanour.
I love your videos.
I don’t know how long you can keep this up (such excellent content), but … I hope it is a long time.
Very thank you very much … very!
Kind Regards and Very Best Wishes,
UK John
The Very British Engineer
Such kind words, thank you! I always appreciate hearing it. 😊
As someone who is waiting on delivery of their first milling machine your video series is a huge help. Very informative and easy to comprehend. Thanks!
Quinn, I really love the way you teach! I've been around machine shops for 60 years or so and I catch new stuff from you every so often. We use your videos in the high school shop where I volunteer. Great stuff!
Awesome, thank you! I appreciate the heck out of that. ☺️
@@BrilliantDesignOnline Maybe she needs to speak into a can or cardboard tube to get that effect?
Thank you for stopping the spindle when the edge finder kicked, that made it finally click for me.
Receiving my new mini-mill for Little Machine Shop tomorrow!! I've had a Micro-Mark mini-lathe for about 15 years and made a lot of stuff. Mostly parts for R/C airplanes. I have been enthusiastically watching your Vertical Mill Series. What a wealth of information !! Thanks for taking the time to produce all thos videos (and yes, I'll show my enthusiasm via Patreon). While verifying I spelled 'Patreon' correctly, I just went ahead and became one of your newest Rockstar!
I've been "milling" using the milling adapter that I bought with my mini-lathe recently FOR THE FIRST TIME! After 15 years, I'm guessing they won't give me a refund on that piece of crap. Oh well, that was back when I was rich and $300 was easy to spend.
I do have one question (you knew I did, huh). The item i'm making is from a 6" piece of 3/4" aluminum. I need to put a 1/4" wide by 1/4" deep groove down the length of the rod. My new mill will have a 3" vise with it. How do I securely hold that rod? Do I need a set of jaws with a V-groove? I haven't seen that addressed in the 7 mill videos (or did I miss something?) I also noticed that I have asked 3 questions, but I'm sure you knew that was going to happen, too.
Thanks again for your entertaining and informative videos!
Tom P.
Woohoo! Thanks so much for the Patreon support!
Regarding the rod, the way I would probably fixture that is a sideways v-block in the vise. That will give it three points of contact and a secure hold. Then support the ends with machinist jacks, because the vise is so much narrower than the stock. See my video on machinist jacks for examples of how to use these.
Another way to do that is to remove your vise and simply lay the bar in a t-slot right on the table and clamp it down. This is a common trick for long round stock. It means you have to work around your clamps, either make your stock extra long and clamp the ends, or use three clamps and shuffle them as you go, leap frogging around the cutter. It all depends what fixturing hardware you have access to. I’m sure there are other ways as well. There are as many fixturing methods for any part as there are machinists.
Just got pm40m with hardened ways. And she is a very good teacher. Thanks a lot for you invaluable help to us 🙏🙏
I watched the whole 28 minutes, even though I knew it all [I have owned and used mills for 20 years]. I just wanted to see the excellent production qualities of this Blondihacks video. If you think you understand something, try explaining it. Blondihacks has got to understand a lot of things very well to explain them this well. The material is presented in careful order, it seems like she knows what I am thinking.
Aww thank you for the kind words, and for sticking with me through all 28 minutes. 😁
Amazing video. I knew all that already, but it took me a long time to figure it out by deduction. Other machinists just take it for granted that you are.. well, a machinist, and don't bother to explain the "obvious" (for them) stuff. If your videos had been online before, they would've saved me a lot of time and heartache.
After watching a couple videos for the first time from your channel within in 2 hours had to sign up as a patron member. One of the best channels on machining I have ever seen. Clear and concise with fun as well! Thank you and keep it going!
love it! I was just gifted/foisted a Taig CNC mill and I want to add electronic handwheels to work on my mill skills. This is high on my list when I get it all together~~
Your videos are so excellent. I know they’re specific to machining, but the principles and organization and even a lot of the techniques really seem applicable to a lot of areas. Kudos and thank you as always.
Thank you very much! ☺️
Quinn you are an excellent teacher. Your explanations are always very clear and spot on.
I've just discovered your videos. What marvellous content along with a brilliant style of teaching ... a joy to watch and certainly an inspiration for someone who has been wanting to start the journey of metalworking as an extension of furniture making.
Well done!
Once again a clear and easy explanation for the amateur to follow , Thank you although I have been using a mill for a great many years I find your videos refreshingly clear and simple whilst covering all aspects and methods available looking forward to p.c.d. and inclines ! .
Great tutorial Quinn. A double feature. Not only how to make a part but also how to set up your tooling. Brilliant!
Never thought i would learn so much about technical from a lady.love this girls
I'm a Mechanical Designer by trade and I make a lot of prints lol. Typically your dimensions are measured to your primary datums. Great vid Quinn! I absolutely love your channel. I'm going to get into some hobby machining so I can make my own prototypes for my hair-brained ideas for stuff and im watching all your tutorials for my starting point
can't stop learning from these videos
Usually when I set my depth of cut I set my knee at zero going up, GENTLY lower the quill till the cutter touches the work (spindle OFF), lock the quill, drop the knee, move off the work, raise the knee to your depth of cut, and Bob's your uncle....I've never been able to lower the quill with the coarse feed lever and dig the cutter into the work without the spindle moving.... always worked great for me...
I also use the knee any time I want accurate movement of the Z axis. Two years ago I splurged and put a power feed on the knee. Got tired of all the cranking required when changing between collets and chuck or boring head.
Great lesson. I love the measurement overlay in the video. Great job!
-Will
Love the graphics, looks great
Nice. Always a pleasure to learn new things. Thanks!
Great mill lesson. Nothing improves the accuracy of an amateur machinist like a DRO.
Excellent explanation of 3D co-ordinates, great introduction those new to CNC milling, and correct drawing standards.
Yes, there are many tricks to determining cutter distance to the part, even a Sharpie mark has thickness?.
Lathe DRO is not necessary, unless you have several repeat operations, and can store tools with offsets.
Great vlog, excellent drawing overlay on the video, cool 🤗. Regards John Quinn.
I'm watching many of these again, you make excellent tutorials!
That paper method always scared me too! Never took to it. I’ve seen machinists use a piece of paper a fourth the length of paper you used. I always stopped whatever I was doing when I witenessed that to see what was going to happen. Standing back of course so as to not to get sprayed with blood and finger parts. Got to watch yourself!
More valuable stuff learnt from Quinn............thanks 😃
Really good Quinn! Thanks for another great video
You teach totally in synch with how my brain works. I appreciate all of your videos, heck I just bought a mill because you explain things so well, lol!
ur the bomb. I'm looking for a mill now and thanks to you I have a better idea of how to get started. thx
Regarding using paper to find an edge - I've seen old guys in the shop rip off a square of cigarette paper, lick it, and stick it to the job. Once the cutter touches the paper it flicks it away from the job and you've found your edge/surface. (Red paper is assumed to be .005", blue is .003")
Thanks for these videos. I love learning. Promise as soon as I have a few bucks ahead of the bills I’ll grab a coffee cup or something off your web store.
Clear as mud 🤣🤣🤣
I defo need a DRO for my hacksaw👍👍👍
Translucent stock that shows the part within? What is this, Clickspring?!
No, it's This Old Tony
Expected to hear the radio dialing-in sound...
Someone has to be Clickspring during his hiatus.
3:15 Absolutely clear, or incrementally clear, depending on settings
I like your explanation very carefully.
I am learning a lot.
It's a shame I can't mill anything at the moment because I'm converting it to CNC.
But now I have to make everything through the lathe and mill around the pieces myself.
Continue like this I am learning a lot.
Greetings from Belgium.
Love your channel.
Hi Quinn,nice video,thanks for sharing.
Dear Quinn
Thank you for the help with the oil can have ordered one from Amazon.
Christopher from Down Under
Back when I was machining 30 years ago we all use to keep a packet of cigarette papers in our tool boxes for touching off. moisten part and the paper would stick. Oh and this was in the U.K. so some of the machines were old imperial ones and some metric. Kept us on our toes and yes, mistakes were often made especially on the lathes when setting up for thread cutting.
Thanks! I'm learning a lot from you
You are a very good communicator
Fantastic video and your editing technique to overlay the part drawing on the stock is super cool! Sometime when you get around to it, I would love to hear your take on tramming our style of mill. Shims under the flat column to base mating surface is far from perfect. I get so jealous when I see the Bridgeport videos and they start talking about just loosen this screw, tap into tram and tighten it back up.
well done presentation..Good job
Unlike the 10 haters (thumbs down) - This is revision for me but the quality of the information is perfect. Thanks Quinn. Its the type of instruction i was was around when i was learning. With CNC its gets more interesting, your drawing set on the 0,0 xy coordinates on your paper design wont always relate to the machine coordinates of the mill. your edge finder instruction goes part of the way to explaining the centre of tool axis in relation to the diameter of the cutter. The CAM software takes this into account - but for simple people like me the demon in your head keeps questioning where you work will start at. Its all magic until you hit the green button and the machine goes to the opposite end of the table and tries milling itself to bits.
A couple of suggestions. One: if the features of the part are symmetrical about an axis, say the centerline, then it is better to use that as your zero so that even if the stock dimensions are off the features will all be accurate relative to themselves, which is often important. Second: another very accurate way to find your z-azis zero is to take a cut, measure the cut depth carefully, dial back to compensate and set your zero. I realize that you had a lot on your plate with this discussion and you did an excellent job. You are always very clear and concise.
Watching your videos is like machining ASMR!! Sooo relaxing!! Thank you!!
Thanks Quinn
I use your shim method, only with paper and slide the paper back and forth until it catches.
You can also use a dowel or endmill shank. Bring the spindle down until whatever dowel or endmill shank you are using won't roll under, then just slowly move the spindle up until it just barely does. You are now the diameter of the pin/shank above your part.
Good stuff!
You could use a cigarette paper for touching off your cutter. It's really thin, and you can lick it to stick it to the top surface of the part, then wind down the cutter until it picks up the paper. This keeps your fingers well out of the way!
Great video. Thank you.
I've always seen the paper touch off with a stationary cutter. Common with the router community
All well explained
For sure- you can also use paper like you would a feeler gage. It’s less precise that way though, because paper compresses easily
Thanks for sharing, Best Wishes.
Well done I like the in-depth explanation, although I also like the crazy stuff too sorta like the cat toothbrush. Thanks
Lots more crazy stuff coming 😬
Grab a known, like a 1" gauge block and raise your tool until it slides under and you will never bust an edge. Even in a huge CNC where you have no feel of the very powerful z feed.
With the paper method first put a little oil on the part then stick the paper to it. And you'll find your standard "zig-zag" cigarette paper are .001.
I was taught the cigarette paper method by an old tool maker. In his day everyone smoked usually roll-yer-own so papers were handy in the shop.
A non-smoker I went out and bought my first ever pack of papers. A little spit glues them down very flat indeed.
Quinn, really nice video. How about making one on the tips and tricks of a DRO on the mill, e.g. bolt hole circles, etc
You bet- I will definitely be doing a video on DROs.
An excellent video, thanks you! Sprocket must have found herself a sunbeam to nap in while you made this one.
She’s been very quiet lately. 😁
@@Blondihacks Well, I'd take that as a sign that she is confident that you have things under control! :-)
You are awesome!
Great video! I just bought a used Bridgeport mill and hope to see it in my garage in the next week or two. I’ve never used one so I wanted full manual before upgrading to CNC. Currently it has a DRO for X & Y only. I have a question, do I need a separate collet for every size bit I will use? Any suggestions on a good new or used make/model lathe? I can’t wait until I get my new toy!
The DRO can do a lot of things... but can it make a refreshing Tom Collins?
Thanks for sharing Quinn,
Cheers
I keep looking for the Manhattan button, but haven’t found it yet. 🤔
@@Blondihacks I haven't found a button for those either but I've been known to hang out on the couch with a bottle of bourbon and a jar of cherries. Virtually the same effect. #NateHacks
Two Things: First, today I learned the $3000-ish way to give myself a hella-paper cut, thanks. Second: when you’re adjusting for the ½ diameter of the edge finder, and go too far past, should one double back and do it again to account for backlash? Never mind, finally finished watching.
She mentioned that within the first 3 minutes.
Andrew Delashaw hence the “nevermind”
Have you tried finding the top surface with a multimeter in conductivity mode?
I tend to use that in a CNC mill we have at work, but normally I don't need too much precission.
I've expected TOT reference when you talk about DRO on lathe :-)
If the cutter and/or workpiece can be insulated from making an electrical connection to the frame of the machine, how precise would it be to use the continuity buzzer on a multimeter to tell when the two make contact?
wait wait wait how the hell do you show your numbers/drwg superimposed on the part in the vise like that, that is one cool trick that all the youtube machinists should have!
This Old Tony does a lot of superimposing of all kinds in his videos. He's very good at it, and sometimes they are very funny. It's all just fancy software ;-)
Transparency and perspective warp in either Photoshop or Illustrator (graphics software), overlay that in Premiere Pro (video editing software).
Could also do it on cellphone. Record or take screensshot of dimensions you want overlayed, use kinemaster or similar app and make dimension a overlay 50% transparent photo and just position it how you want.
I do something similar for riding to help see body position. I have a few old videos I posted, but use 2 gopros. 1 behind me and 1 mounted in front. The camera in the rear I make 60% transparent and overlay on front video. Best way I've found to see your own body position..
DRO? Pah! When I was an apprentice, we had several colors of wax pencils in which to mark the handwheels for backlash and we were better for it! *rabble*rabble*rabble*
:D
How did you do that ? You took a very complex subject and started to unravel its mystery did I understand it all No but I got the basics to try experimenting with a tool grinder and gaining experience .Thank you. now if you could just explain how to split an atom !!
Quinn, have you had training or experience as a teacher, or are you just that rock solid on your machining experience to allow your flawless delivery of useful information?
My Sieg mill does everything possible to make it difficult to measure things accurately; the dials are marked in increments of 1/40mm and it's a 2mm leadscrew so, naturally, you have the numbers on the dial going from 0-80...
MOAR!
For the home-gamer and on small parts, a single datum for each direction is great. on larger parts, you will likely get features that need to be precise to each other, rather than to the overall datums. If a part to be mounted onto your part requires precise mounting features, they should have a sub-datum. Create one feature, and measure the others to that feature as a local datum, rather than using the overall part datums for each feature.
Just purchase a lathe and mill to set up a home shop. Your videos helped with the ordering and caused me to cancel the lathe order and go bigger. Working my way through all the videos and would like to know what you are using for audio with your iPhone?. Also your video editor?
Electronic edge finders have come down in price significantly in the last couple of years or so. You can pick them up for a very few beer tokens these days from the usual sources in the Far East. How precisely machined they may be I couldn't say, but I'll find out when I spring for one!
@ 7:10 (ish) on finding zero.
What about releasing the grip on the end mill bit so it (gently) drops and rests ontop of the object, lower the spindle (with relaxed/open collet) around the end mill, so only the weight of the end mill bit is resting on the surface, then tightening the spindle/collet in place?
Or use feeler gauges on top of the object to fill in the gap, deduct the different to zero with no-touch....edit::: ah, you got this covered.
great channel btw, you're excellent with audio, composition, and dare I say humor.
Will you be doing a video on the pointy end of the edge finder, which I presume is to locate existing holes?
You bet! Quite soon, in fact
Great video! I wish I could give 2 thumbs up
An alternative to the copier paper approach (avoids having to hold the paper) that I was taught many years ago is to use cigarette papers - the thickness is very repeatable. You cut a small piece off and it will stick to the top or the sides of the part with water, spit, or suds. The cutter will whip it away and you're good to go. With care you can put paper on three sides and zero all three dials in one go.
How do you decide on your width and depth of cut,
on a lighter note - Do you use a different tool to remove brown. black and grizzly burrs
I love watching your videos because you do not edit
them. If you make an error you make it funny, which
is awesome. My question is, where do I find a METAL
degree scale for a compound. I have a Smithy (not the
best) but I haven't hit the Lotto yet.
Thanks for your help
Bobbo72
i thought you were going to teach us about the sdm function.. but hey its early.. ill keep watching
How do you keep everything so clean? In my shop everything gets covered in grime, so the lathe DROs (same sort of thing as your quill DRO) get oily fingerprints all over them and your hands get all mucky from the handwheels.
I do keep cleaning stuff but it gets oily as quick as I can clean.
I guess I’m very fussy. 😁
I feel like hand wheels are great for keeping the brain healthy and smooth running.
I have a ,very, used mill so my DRO is more accurate than the handwheels and a lot quicker to use. One note of caution about DROs. They need to be calibrated after you install them. That means you need some sort of very accurate way of measuring reasonably long distances. Multiple iterations are required. Also the 0.0001 readings on most DROs are optimistic estimates. Of course if you need 0.0001 accuracy you better have a surface grinder.
I really like all the features of the DRO. For those of you that have never used one, you can read the instruction manuals on-line to get a better understanding of why they are nearly standard equipment on most machines.
Thanks for the video.
@@Larry1942Will DROs are nice and all, and yeah I understand that a clapped out mill will probably have janky handwheels, but in the case of having a functional and reasonable set of handwheels then I believe using them may be a fun exercise for the brain, not necessarily quicker or more practical.
If you don't like finding the top surface with paper, lick a bit of Rizla paper (any flavour) and stick on the top surface. Lower your quill until the Rizla picks up and you'll be about 12 microns off...
Funny thing is that in fine woodworking we have to first dress a reference face and a reference edge and all measurements, marking out, etc has to be done from those reference surfaces, otherwise things go wrong! Sometimes the basic principles of measurement and marking out span across several disciplines.
For the last finishing pass, try to use climb cutting. Far better finish on the aluminium part and no burr. I would also appreciate it if there is a mention of the metric measurement system, I can't get a head on the imperial system (let's say I hate it). Some youtubers mention metric dimensions on screen, and I am grateful for it. Thanks for the video!
This rocks... Got my Blondihacks t shirt yesterday and wearing it while watching !!🙏
Woohoo! Thanks for the support! 😁
@@Blondihacks my pleasure!
Hi, not sure if this is a dumb question but do you trust that the diameter of the mill end is correct or should you check? Also, will the mill end diameter change over time due to dulling or wear?
For top of part I prefer a gauge block, gauge pin, or 123 block.
what is the cad system you are using
Woops! I didn't watch long enough!
You lose the z-ref every time you change your tool, right? Like you found your z with the tool, then edge found, then went back to the tool and continued on, but wouldn't you have to touch off (or whatever method) the top again?
Maybe I'm missing something, but I didnt think the tooling was repeatable in the Z unless you are using particular fixtures.
You are quite right. You need to re-establish Z every time you change tools. There are some tool changing systems that are repeatable in Z, but plain old collets like this are not.
At 23:06 you bring in your cutter again after you used the edge finder. How did you get it at exactly the same stickout as before ?
I didn’t- those are shot out of sequence. 😁 Sometimes I have to bend time to teach something more effectively.
Ah, okay, I was afraid I missed something ... 👍
Would these apply to milling attatchments on a lathe as well
Yes, kind of, not really. When using a XZC live tool lathe the Y axis is a compound of XC, meaning there is no Y to locate, X zero is the spindle axis, C is a rotary axis inline with the spindle axis but not defined by the center of rotation, but Z thankfully still works the same. For XYZC live tool lathes all of the above applies but Y is a physical axis where Y zero is set so that the center line of a mill tool will directly intersect the spindle axis. Usually most of these zero locations are indicated and recorded for the machine as they reflect relative locations in the lathe irrespective of the work piece. For example, locating a part using the center of a hole which is not inline with the spindle center using the X and C axis would be sufficient because Y zero must intersect the spindle center line on the machine.
@@nathanielstephenson7932 ok I was wondering about that because the tool itself doesn't move on the milling attachment thank you for all the info I'm still new to all this only had my lathe for a little over a year now so still a noob and trying to get all the info I can I want a milling machine but right now not in the budget so the attachment will have to do
Hi Quinn, with respect to DRO's, can they be fitted to and are they easy to fit to an existing mill purchased without said DRO? Thanks Bernie (a recent fan from the UK)
You bet! They are usually pretty easy to mount up. Just drill, tap, and bolt the scales to the table slides, and plug in the cables
When a channel is so consistently good that you prelike the video. #BlondihacksRules
9:03
"...or you could use you knee to measure things..."
Still new to machining, caught me out by surprise :D
Hopefully the correct spelling...
What she was referring to was that on bench top mills like she has the main way for moving the head up and down is to use the wheel that she was just showing to move the head. It is great for large movements but it can be a pain to get the last .001" due to the coarseness of the adjustment. With large mills that sit on the floor, they have both a spindle adjustment as well as the ability to raise or lower the table. The adjustment for raising and lowering the table is called the knee.
I hope this helps.
@@robertoswalt319 it does help. Thanks for the response :)
Apologies for the confusion there- I covered mill geometries in an earlier video in this series. It’s hard not to assume everyone watches all the videos. 😁