for men being lonely isn't so much of a feeling, its more along the lines of a state of being. its knowing that when you we walk down the street no one really notices your existence as a consciousness.at best your are seen as a threat. most days your just another piece of the environment we live in, like a tree that you walk past. you don't really care about the story of the tree or the thoughts it might have because its just a tree.in that sense men are just the thing that fixes the car, the thing the comes and picks up the trash, the thing that makes the power plant work. men are things and our loneliness stims form us dreaming of being something more.in all of the fore mentioned movies all the male characters were only brought in to be used as things. "Ex Machina", he is nothing but a testing tool like a pool chlorine kit. in "Blade Runner", he was a tool made buy a company to fix the problem of defectives tools. in "Her" he was the tool that was already found to be of no use to the ex wife. Our society demands that men be tools so that it continues to work for the present day to day but on the other hand for the far reaching future women demand men to be both human and tool to be able to make and raise more people but all men yearn for is to be seen as another human. that's why so many men can fall in love with AI because they feel that deep down this is what the AI longs for as well. this is why men find it so hard to understand women's loneliness. society as a whole already views them as human. someone who deserves the right to be and do anything your heart desires. yes we are all lonely but for women, the loneliness is due to being lost in the fog of endless options and you cant see others around you because of that fog. for men its the loneliness of being in a steel box unable to see anyone around you. if i had the choice i would take the fog over the box any day.
There’s a lot in this that I could respond to but I really don’t think it would do any good so I’ll just summarise with this: a lot of what you are saying is gripes that you should be having with capitalism and not how society treats men. In capitalism, people are turned into cogs in the machine and are valued only insofar as they can add value to the economy. Additionally capitalism and globalisation separates men (and everyone mind you) from communities, and men (and everyone) are valued as people in healthy communities. Please watch my video on Capitalist Realism for more details into how this works but also I’d really encourage you to broaden your perspective on how you view female loneliness. As a trans women I have experience being lonely as a man and a woman and although I agree theirs differences in the styles in which men and women feel loneliness the feeling is the same. If you seek out stories by women I have no doubt you will find that loneliness works more or less the same for everyone. Also btw your interpretation of Her I strongly disagree with and find very misogynistic, you’re saying Catherine has no feeling of love for Theodore and just sees him as a tool for her own ambition? That’s an extremely cynical borderline contemptuous way of seeing her character and her role in their clearly loving but complicated relationship.
Having grown up under communism, no where are you more of a human-less tool or cog in a machine, than you are there. Blaming the disposability of men on capitalism, is just lazy. It’s never been difrent for men in this regard, under any system, in the past or likely any future. Human tools.
i dont think its a lie to fall in love with an ai, not in the slightest. this is a incorrect depiction of ai theres no lies with ai, as they didnt evolved to use deception as a survival mechanism, unlike humans you can have ai that you control the source code for, that you own entirely, that isnt controlled by anyone, and it can be 100% honest when it says it loves you, asuming it can feel emotions
Glad this came up for me. Really enjoyed the video. Seems like it is reaching some of the right people who need to hear this even though they might not know it 😅
Great video, very interesting. I do think that there is nuanced to be gained in your depiction of male "possesivness" and women "emotional need" as inherent traits. A systemic approach on patriarchy and the way it benefits men could help you see it more as a hierarchical adaptation pattern than a natural/biological truth and then help to sharpen your (already very good) analysis. Maybe "The will to change" by Bell Hooks could be an interesting read on the matter. Anyway, thank you very much for a great video.
That’s a good point, there’s valid and fruitful way to interpret male possessiveness as a vestige of patriarchal traditions. And also the “women are more emotional” claim as also being another patriarchal tool in the othering of women. And I do love me some Bell Hooks don’t get me wrong, but I guess my intention was to shift the focus away from gender itself and onto more universal/agendered societal issues like loneliness and alienation under capitalism. In doing so I can see how it brushes over how capitalism inherent privileges men over women as a consequence of capitalist-patriarchy. I do see myself doing a future video using Bell Hooks as inspiration though I have been really getting into her work recently. And thank you for watching and engaging! Always love reading thoughtful and insightful comments ❤
Are there any good stories that explore a relationship between an AI and a human where the human is a woman and the AI is male? Or stories where the relationship is a more explicitly queer one? The majority of these stories seeming to feature the gender dynamic of masculine human + feminine robot in the first place feels telling. The man's humanity is almost never even in question. His morality may be, his intelligence may be, but his fundamental personhood is always taken as a given. The woman however, in being relegated to the role of the robot, consistently has to clear that fundamental hurdle first before anything else about her personhood can even begin to be addressed. Bladerunner 2049 feels like it comes close to this with its male lead being a replicant, but both the film itself and the film it's following up bent over backwards to drive home to the audience that replicants are essentially human in every way that matters to a story. While this may lead us to be more considerate of Joi's own potential personhood, as we've been primed to consider the personhood of other artificial life, as you pointed out here the story isn't primarily concerned with Joi. She is, fundamentally, a prop in K's own development, and even in the dynamic of two kinds of artificial people, she is the more artificial person in the pair, lacking many basic elements of human agency that K is able to enjoy.
The closest thing to a human woman/ai man relationship that I can think of is the relationship between Wanda Maximoff and Vision (formerly Jarvis the A.I.) But there is no question as to Vision’s humanity once he gets the mind stone and therefore sentience. But even when I think of non-sexual A.I. human relationships like between Jarvis and Tony Stark and all the female ai voice assistants in the MCU Jarvis (the male voice) is the only one that is treated like a proper character and his own screen presence/story arc. The female voices always simply perform their roles as assistants and become the background to the stories.
@@sadiyashiraj It becomes striking too when we look at women in Pinnochio positions where they're allowed to explore and question the nature of their humanity, but not in regards to their relative position to a demonstrably human man. Major Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell and Elster from Signalis come to mind. The former coming from her existential questioning from the opposite position of whether what was once human can transform into what is initially seen strictly as machine, but in doing so calling into question the boundaries we put around what is human in the first place, and the latter exploring humanity and personhood through the lens of a queer relationship, which shifts the entire vibe of the story. Thank you for the videos btw! Your work is very thought provoking!
@@sael91 those themes are making me think of Donna J. Harraway’s ‘Cyborg Manifesto’, a book I considered discussing in this video but decided not to as it would extend the scope of the video to something I am very not capable of doing justice lol. But I love that you’re already thinking about that! The boundaries between human/machine, man/woman, straight/queer are things I’m very interested in and might make a video about in the future. And thank you so much for watching and engaging! I love hearing how other people interpret the topics I bring up :)
I think this ends up being a question about potential audiences. There are a group of lonely men who desire female attention and don't know how to become someone who will receive it. For them the idea of a imperfect facsimile of female attention is appealing. I'm not sure if there's as large a potential audience of women who are craving generic male attention, in the same way? For non straight versions I'm guessing it just comes down to there being fewer people who aren't straight. I'm kinda fascinated by the women question though, I get the feeling that most women are not craving generic male attention, in the same way men are.
Episode 1 of the second season of black mirror explores a woman's relationship with an AI version of her dead boyfriend. That's the only example I can think of.
Interesting video, the last point about centering female perspectives I'm not as sure about. Honestly to me this feels like the first time in my lifetime that the perspectives of men who are not attractive to women have been given societal attention. To me it feels like society just stopped laughing at us, to consider that we exist and are real people, not one dementional caricatures. I can't exactly explain why, but the reaction to this group of men finally being seriously discussed, being to center women, doesn't feel right.
I think I get what you're saying. Like Hollywood has moved past the Tom Cruises and Brad Pitts and the 'leading man' trope to focus on more introverted/socially marginal male characters. But if we see that shift as a societal correction in the representation of men in the media, making up for the themes that the old tropes missed, then we have to apply that same view to the current mainstream depiction of leading characters. As much as those macho action hero type stories would've missed about for example the more sensitive aspects of men that the shift corrects for, centring the nerdy/loner type will still come with its own unique baggage. My argument is that the next move in progressive media representation should be toward the female perspective, because what both the action hero/loner leading characters have in common is the way they other women or the feminine. I believe everyone has much to gain from entertaining such perspectives, especially marginalised men for whom these perspectives were kept out of reach by either limited access or social stigma.
idk how old you are but throughout most of my life, your so called “underrepresented” awkward lonely leading and occasionally tortured white guy has been all i’ve seen in movies in television, countless examples include 500 days of summer, oppenheimer, whiplash, taxi driver, the joker too maybe more violent but the general themes of some guy being isolated from society usually because of capitalism… i think the idea that women getting represented in the same way is gonna take away from it… it a pretty ridiculous fear, women’s stories have always come second or they are object in these movies
@@leenaadams6742 idk how Oppenheimer fits that at all, when half of the movie was about his love affairs. Joker definitely was, can't speak to the others.
@@leenaadams6742I’m 21 and honestly I totally agree with you even I grew up with movies like Superbad and shows like Inbetweeners being mainstream. It’s frustrating to know that some people have a zero-sum-game view of representation in the media and think more of one groups stories means less of another’s.
@@leenaadams6742 He is most likely not talking about movies. Instead, he is probably alluding to the fact that these kind of men are ridiculed all of the time in the public discourse. Movies don't change that. They are interesting to analyze and mean a lot to some individuals, but ultimately they are not important in the grander scheme. There was never a real empathetic talk about the lives of these kind of men. As a society we just shame them, tell them to shut up, and we deprioritize their emotional well being. Women on average grow up having a more robust and bigger social network and therefore more social and emotional support. Many men literally have no one - and the reason is that their stories are not properly told in public discourse. Some might virtue signal that men are allowed to talk about their emotions. But this doesn't mean anything. When it gets real, men still pay the price of being viewed as unmanly / a loser. And no one really addresses this (without making it about other groups). Sure, some people might relate to K in Blade Runner. But it's not making any interesting argument in favor of taking these kind of men more serious. Just like you said: it's all just a metaphor for capitalism. Btw. Just having movies with lonely/unsuccessful men in it, doesn't mean that this movie speaks for them or to them. It also doesn't mean that it actually addresses a serious issue that might affect this demographic group. For example: I don't see how the movie 500 days of summer is real representation in this regard. They could also just reverse the gender of the protagonists and it honestly wouldn't change anything. But I agree that Drive is a good example. Many men can relate to this movie. There are definitely many movies that achieve this kind of empathy. But they don't translate to a change of social norms in real life.
"Samantha's whole purpose for existing is to meet the emotional needs of the person who purchased her." Nothing new there! 1) Biblical origin story of women, + 2) custom of arranged marriage. Not an unprecedented setup!
True but it's different when you consider that this "purpose" isn't just a societal expectation/injustice imposed on her it informs her very material design. Women have always endured misogyny but from our perspective it never compromised their humanity, for Samantha the unfreedom is built into her DNA (programming). But then I guess that could lead us into a whole nature/nurture/essentialism debate lol so maybe you have a point.
@@sadiyashiraj It can get into a technical thing when you're making any parallel, very true, like an LSAT question. I'm not a hundred percent sure I've made a solid parallel. But if men genuinely believed the scripture that was commonplace historically, that women are just helpmates made out of their rib cartilage, then they were technically tucking into what they understood to be subhuman helpmates too. I've always found that idea to be creepy, and thought it begs to be understood why this myth goes to such imaginative trouble to emphasize that women are designed out of and for the sake of men's companionship; but its a myth that contextualizes a way of viewing women that these AI tales appear to be evoking also.
@@sadiyashiraj I'm certainly very interested in this conversation to be had about essentialism. I don't believe there is a truth, I think truths are these containers of ideas that never actually hold the things we perceive them to, we trade them about but we don't actually see that inside them there is no essential reality. What people experience that causes them to take away the conclusion that there is an essential nature of woman or of man is based on misunderstandings of causality, and the rejection of previously held concepts. Essentialists don't think men and women are essential because they actually are, they think that because they previously thought they weren't, but encountered a situation that appeared to prove otherwise. A pessimist is a former optimist, and so on. Buffeted by the conflicting desires of life, people witness men and women eventually arriving at consistent choices, and so they assume this proves men and women have an essential nature. This is not a sound conclusion, but it's an understandable one. Life is a complex test of our deepest priorities, pain teaches us to make compromises with our environment. Each of us wants the same things yet express it differently. A woman choosing to be the prize of a rich man's financial heroism is just a coincidence of circumstances - like a musician who never gets famous deciding to go to law school and become a tenant's rights lawyer. These were not compelled choices, they were not inevitable, or even desirable. They were available, and preferable to nothing. Ugh, I wish I could make video essays. : )
@ModernConversations not going to lie everything you said sounds to me strikingly similar to Wittgenstein's "Philosophical Investigations", which makes me think you should DEFINITELY start making video essays!
Maybe there is more to a lifelong relationship than what you dream of. You learn from your mistakes and wish you could fix them all. Telling your significant other how you feel about them is one part. How they feel about you is the other. You stick together, you don't give up. Sounds like a simple story. Once upon a time they lived happily ever after. The End. There's a bit more to it, isn't there?
I don’t know why i get recommended this. Im a exo oribiter of the manosphere Is my teetering on the edge of the sphere montivation for the algorithm to push me over? Or it suspects some antagonistic comments and thus engagement? I smell ai exploitation! Tbw nice guy. Kinda my guilty pleasure jam. Well i used to be, i hope anyway. The only master of truth is time itself Interesting talk btw!
Interesting you say that because my aim for this video was to teeter on the edge of manosphere topics lol. I want to talk about adjacent issues like loneliness and gender relations but I don't ever want to be considered a manosphere creator *shudders*. And thanks :)
@@sadiyashiraj youtube algorithm and nuanced takes don't go along well. You said male loneliness too many times, for sure this video is part of the manosphere /s. The positive thing is that now this video reaches people that need nuanced takes. The bad one is that now i will have to clear my feed from all the "woman bad" channels. Anyway, nice video.
@@raptor909i think it’s also worth mentioning that male loneliness is partly the result of patriarchy, the lack of close male friendships and emotional vulnerability due to the whole stoicism thing that makes it harder for men to connect to one another, so it’s a bit ironic that manosphere ppl complain about these very real issue and turn around and support the system that lets the issues proliferate, same for the capitalist system that ties masculinity to financial success, and uses women as prizes to be won, so men who are broke and lonely with the intersection of these two big systems will turn around and worship the embodiments of such systems, wealthy famous men who profit from their issues… it’s so paradoxical
i’m mostly talking about men within the manosphere with less critical thinking skills… think patrick bateman wannabes… a lonely stoic and rich man who releases all his issues through violence and sees women as objects… we complain about all these issues especially sui(ide rates for guys and then turn around and glorify the very thing destroying men from the inside, the emotional repression
@@alexismacias8436 There is a reason why AI girlfriends are being developed and AI boyfriends not so much. Loneliness is exclusively a male only phenomenon. The data shows literally any woman can get a man anytime they want but the same isn't true for men
@@LoudmouthReviews Only narc1ss1sts are lonely when they can't get attention. If you stop hating yourself you will not feel lonely, believe me. I moved to a village in the mountains some years ago and I don't talk to anyone of the locals. 20 years ago I was married, but my ex didn't love me, it was the most loneliest part of my life.
@@LoudmouthReviewsthe reason is not that women are all getting boyfriends… also if they had boyfriends wouldn’t that equal out the numbers… basic math. the reason is that women tend to have deeper female friendships that men do, this is not male oppression, you guys just connect as deeply because you don’t allow yourself to
This is genuinely one of the best video essays I've seen in ages. So well articulated
I wish we had the "Joi" ai in irl. she's literally perfect.
for men being lonely isn't so much of a feeling, its more along the lines of a state of being. its knowing that when you we walk down the street no one really notices your existence as a consciousness.at best your are seen as a threat. most days your just another piece of the environment we live in, like a tree that you walk past. you don't really care about the story of the tree or the thoughts it might have because its just a tree.in that sense men are just the thing that fixes the car, the thing the comes and picks up the trash, the thing that makes the power plant work. men are things and our loneliness stims form us dreaming of being something more.in all of the fore mentioned movies all the male characters were only brought in to be used as things. "Ex Machina", he is nothing but a testing tool like a pool chlorine kit. in "Blade Runner", he was a tool made buy a company to fix the problem of defectives tools. in "Her" he was the tool that was already found to be of no use to the ex wife. Our society demands that men be tools so that it continues to work for the present day to day but on the other hand for the far reaching future women demand men to be both human and tool to be able to make and raise more people but all men yearn for is to be seen as another human. that's why so many men can fall in love with AI because they feel that deep down this is what the AI longs for as well. this is why men find it so hard to understand women's loneliness. society as a whole already views them as human. someone who deserves the right to be and do anything your heart desires. yes we are all lonely but for women, the loneliness is due to being lost in the fog of endless options and you cant see others around you because of that fog. for men its the loneliness of being in a steel box unable to see anyone around you. if i had the choice i would take the fog over the box any day.
There’s a lot in this that I could respond to but I really don’t think it would do any good so I’ll just summarise with this: a lot of what you are saying is gripes that you should be having with capitalism and not how society treats men. In capitalism, people are turned into cogs in the machine and are valued only insofar as they can add value to the economy. Additionally capitalism and globalisation separates men (and everyone mind you) from communities, and men (and everyone) are valued as people in healthy communities. Please watch my video on Capitalist Realism for more details into how this works but also I’d really encourage you to broaden your perspective on how you view female loneliness. As a trans women I have experience being lonely as a man and a woman and although I agree theirs differences in the styles in which men and women feel loneliness the feeling is the same. If you seek out stories by women I have no doubt you will find that loneliness works more or less the same for everyone. Also btw your interpretation of Her I strongly disagree with and find very misogynistic, you’re saying Catherine has no feeling of love for Theodore and just sees him as a tool for her own ambition? That’s an extremely cynical borderline contemptuous way of seeing her character and her role in their clearly loving but complicated relationship.
@@sadiyashirajCapitalism isn’t going anywhere. So, we’ll need better solutions than blaming capitalism.
Shut up goofy
Having grown up under communism, no where are you more of a human-less tool or cog in a machine, than you are there.
Blaming the disposability of men on capitalism, is just lazy. It’s never been difrent for men in this regard, under any system, in the past or likely any future. Human tools.
i dont think its a lie to fall in love with an ai, not in the slightest. this is a incorrect depiction of ai
theres no lies with ai, as they didnt evolved to use deception as a survival mechanism, unlike humans
you can have ai that you control the source code for, that you own entirely, that isnt controlled by anyone, and it can be 100% honest when it says it loves you, asuming it can feel emotions
This was great, thank you very much! Keep making good stuff.
Glad this came up for me. Really enjoyed the video. Seems like it is reaching some of the right people who need to hear this even though they might not know it 😅
'Does it makes me a bad feminist to want a strong... man' i thought you were going somewhere else there😅
Great video, very interesting. I do think that there is nuanced to be gained in your depiction of male "possesivness" and women "emotional need" as inherent traits. A systemic approach on patriarchy and the way it benefits men could help you see it more as a hierarchical adaptation pattern than a natural/biological truth and then help to sharpen your (already very good) analysis. Maybe "The will to change" by Bell Hooks could be an interesting read on the matter. Anyway, thank you very much for a great video.
That’s a good point, there’s valid and fruitful way to interpret male possessiveness as a vestige of patriarchal traditions. And also the “women are more emotional” claim as also being another patriarchal tool in the othering of women. And I do love me some Bell Hooks don’t get me wrong, but I guess my intention was to shift the focus away from gender itself and onto more universal/agendered societal issues like loneliness and alienation under capitalism. In doing so I can see how it brushes over how capitalism inherent privileges men over women as a consequence of capitalist-patriarchy. I do see myself doing a future video using Bell Hooks as inspiration though I have been really getting into her work recently. And thank you for watching and engaging! Always love reading thoughtful and insightful comments ❤
Are there any good stories that explore a relationship between an AI and a human where the human is a woman and the AI is male? Or stories where the relationship is a more explicitly queer one? The majority of these stories seeming to feature the gender dynamic of masculine human + feminine robot in the first place feels telling. The man's humanity is almost never even in question. His morality may be, his intelligence may be, but his fundamental personhood is always taken as a given. The woman however, in being relegated to the role of the robot, consistently has to clear that fundamental hurdle first before anything else about her personhood can even begin to be addressed. Bladerunner 2049 feels like it comes close to this with its male lead being a replicant, but both the film itself and the film it's following up bent over backwards to drive home to the audience that replicants are essentially human in every way that matters to a story. While this may lead us to be more considerate of Joi's own potential personhood, as we've been primed to consider the personhood of other artificial life, as you pointed out here the story isn't primarily concerned with Joi. She is, fundamentally, a prop in K's own development, and even in the dynamic of two kinds of artificial people, she is the more artificial person in the pair, lacking many basic elements of human agency that K is able to enjoy.
The closest thing to a human woman/ai man relationship that I can think of is the relationship between Wanda Maximoff and Vision (formerly Jarvis the A.I.) But there is no question as to Vision’s humanity once he gets the mind stone and therefore sentience. But even when I think of non-sexual A.I. human relationships like between Jarvis and Tony Stark and all the female ai voice assistants in the MCU Jarvis (the male voice) is the only one that is treated like a proper character and his own screen presence/story arc. The female voices always simply perform their roles as assistants and become the background to the stories.
@@sadiyashiraj It becomes striking too when we look at women in Pinnochio positions where they're allowed to explore and question the nature of their humanity, but not in regards to their relative position to a demonstrably human man. Major Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell and Elster from Signalis come to mind. The former coming from her existential questioning from the opposite position of whether what was once human can transform into what is initially seen strictly as machine, but in doing so calling into question the boundaries we put around what is human in the first place, and the latter exploring humanity and personhood through the lens of a queer relationship, which shifts the entire vibe of the story. Thank you for the videos btw! Your work is very thought provoking!
@@sael91 those themes are making me think of Donna J. Harraway’s ‘Cyborg Manifesto’, a book I considered discussing in this video but decided not to as it would extend the scope of the video to something I am very not capable of doing justice lol. But I love that you’re already thinking about that! The boundaries between human/machine, man/woman, straight/queer are things I’m very interested in and might make a video about in the future. And thank you so much for watching and engaging! I love hearing how other people interpret the topics I bring up :)
I think this ends up being a question about potential audiences. There are a group of lonely men who desire female attention and don't know how to become someone who will receive it. For them the idea of a imperfect facsimile of female attention is appealing. I'm not sure if there's as large a potential audience of women who are craving generic male attention, in the same way? For non straight versions I'm guessing it just comes down to there being fewer people who aren't straight.
I'm kinda fascinated by the women question though, I get the feeling that most women are not craving generic male attention, in the same way men are.
Episode 1 of the second season of black mirror explores a woman's relationship with an AI version of her dead boyfriend. That's the only example I can think of.
Interesting video, the last point about centering female perspectives I'm not as sure about. Honestly to me this feels like the first time in my lifetime that the perspectives of men who are not attractive to women have been given societal attention.
To me it feels like society just stopped laughing at us, to consider that we exist and are real people, not one dementional caricatures. I can't exactly explain why, but the reaction to this group of men finally being seriously discussed, being to center women, doesn't feel right.
I think I get what you're saying. Like Hollywood has moved past the Tom Cruises and Brad Pitts and the 'leading man' trope to focus on more introverted/socially marginal male characters. But if we see that shift as a societal correction in the representation of men in the media, making up for the themes that the old tropes missed, then we have to apply that same view to the current mainstream depiction of leading characters. As much as those macho action hero type stories would've missed about for example the more sensitive aspects of men that the shift corrects for, centring the nerdy/loner type will still come with its own unique baggage. My argument is that the next move in progressive media representation should be toward the female perspective, because what both the action hero/loner leading characters have in common is the way they other women or the feminine. I believe everyone has much to gain from entertaining such perspectives, especially marginalised men for whom these perspectives were kept out of reach by either limited access or social stigma.
idk how old you are but throughout most of my life, your so called “underrepresented” awkward lonely leading and occasionally tortured white guy has been all i’ve seen in movies in television, countless examples include 500 days of summer, oppenheimer, whiplash, taxi driver, the joker too maybe more violent but the general themes of some guy being isolated from society usually because of capitalism… i think the idea that women getting represented in the same way is gonna take away from it… it a pretty ridiculous fear, women’s stories have always come second or they are object in these movies
@@leenaadams6742 idk how Oppenheimer fits that at all, when half of the movie was about his love affairs. Joker definitely was, can't speak to the others.
@@leenaadams6742I’m 21 and honestly I totally agree with you even I grew up with movies like Superbad and shows like Inbetweeners being mainstream. It’s frustrating to know that some people have a zero-sum-game view of representation in the media and think more of one groups stories means less of another’s.
@@leenaadams6742 He is most likely not talking about movies. Instead, he is probably alluding to the fact that these kind of men are ridiculed all of the time in the public discourse.
Movies don't change that. They are interesting to analyze and mean a lot to some individuals, but ultimately they are not important in the grander scheme. There was never a real empathetic talk about the lives of these kind of men. As a society we just shame them, tell them to shut up, and we deprioritize their emotional well being.
Women on average grow up having a more robust and bigger social network and therefore more social and emotional support. Many men literally have no one - and the reason is that their stories are not properly told in public discourse. Some might virtue signal that men are allowed to talk about their emotions. But this doesn't mean anything. When it gets real, men still pay the price of being viewed as unmanly / a loser. And no one really addresses this (without making it about other groups).
Sure, some people might relate to K in Blade Runner. But it's not making any interesting argument in favor of taking these kind of men more serious. Just like you said: it's all just a metaphor for capitalism.
Btw. Just having movies with lonely/unsuccessful men in it, doesn't mean that this movie speaks for them or to them. It also doesn't mean that it actually addresses a serious issue that might affect this demographic group. For example: I don't see how the movie 500 days of summer is real representation in this regard. They could also just reverse the gender of the protagonists and it honestly wouldn't change anything.
But I agree that Drive is a good example. Many men can relate to this movie. There are definitely many movies that achieve this kind of empathy. But they don't translate to a change of social norms in real life.
Great video I really enjoyed it!
"Samantha's whole purpose for existing is to meet the emotional needs of the person who purchased her."
Nothing new there! 1) Biblical origin story of women, + 2) custom of arranged marriage. Not an unprecedented setup!
True but it's different when you consider that this "purpose" isn't just a societal expectation/injustice imposed on her it informs her very material design. Women have always endured misogyny but from our perspective it never compromised their humanity, for Samantha the unfreedom is built into her DNA (programming). But then I guess that could lead us into a whole nature/nurture/essentialism debate lol so maybe you have a point.
@@sadiyashiraj It can get into a technical thing when you're making any parallel, very true, like an LSAT question. I'm not a hundred percent sure I've made a solid parallel. But if men genuinely believed the scripture that was commonplace historically, that women are just helpmates made out of their rib cartilage, then they were technically tucking into what they understood to be subhuman helpmates too. I've always found that idea to be creepy, and thought it begs to be understood why this myth goes to such imaginative trouble to emphasize that women are designed out of and for the sake of men's companionship; but its a myth that contextualizes a way of viewing women that these AI tales appear to be evoking also.
@@sadiyashiraj I'm certainly very interested in this conversation to be had about essentialism. I don't believe there is a truth, I think truths are these containers of ideas that never actually hold the things we perceive them to, we trade them about but we don't actually see that inside them there is no essential reality. What people experience that causes them to take away the conclusion that there is an essential nature of woman or of man is based on misunderstandings of causality, and the rejection of previously held concepts. Essentialists don't think men and women are essential because they actually are, they think that because they previously thought they weren't, but encountered a situation that appeared to prove otherwise. A pessimist is a former optimist, and so on. Buffeted by the conflicting desires of life, people witness men and women eventually arriving at consistent choices, and so they assume this proves men and women have an essential nature. This is not a sound conclusion, but it's an understandable one. Life is a complex test of our deepest priorities, pain teaches us to make compromises with our environment. Each of us wants the same things yet express it differently. A woman choosing to be the prize of a rich man's financial heroism is just a coincidence of circumstances - like a musician who never gets famous deciding to go to law school and become a tenant's rights lawyer. These were not compelled choices, they were not inevitable, or even desirable. They were available, and preferable to nothing. Ugh, I wish I could make video essays. : )
@ModernConversations not going to lie everything you said sounds to me strikingly similar to Wittgenstein's "Philosophical Investigations", which makes me think you should DEFINITELY start making video essays!
Her is one of my favorite movies 😭🙏🏾
Lmaooo sorry for raining on your parade. I still thought it was very ~fascinatingly~ boring hahaha
Good essay
Maybe there is more to a lifelong relationship than what you dream of. You learn from your mistakes and wish you could fix them all. Telling your significant other how you feel about them is one part. How they feel about you is the other.
You stick together, you don't give up.
Sounds like a simple story.
Once upon a time they lived happily ever after. The End.
There's a bit more to it, isn't there?
I don’t know why i get recommended this. Im a exo oribiter of the manosphere
Is my teetering on the edge of the sphere montivation for the algorithm to push me over?
Or it suspects some antagonistic comments and thus engagement?
I smell ai exploitation!
Tbw nice guy. Kinda my guilty pleasure jam. Well i used to be, i hope anyway.
The only master of truth is time itself
Interesting talk btw!
Interesting you say that because my aim for this video was to teeter on the edge of manosphere topics lol. I want to talk about adjacent issues like loneliness and gender relations but I don't ever want to be considered a manosphere creator *shudders*. And thanks :)
@@sadiyashiraj bulls eye i guess 🤣
@@sadiyashiraj youtube algorithm and nuanced takes don't go along well. You said male loneliness too many times, for sure this video is part of the manosphere /s. The positive thing is that now this video reaches people that need nuanced takes. The bad one is that now i will have to clear my feed from all the "woman bad" channels. Anyway, nice video.
@@raptor909i think it’s also worth mentioning that male loneliness is partly the result of patriarchy, the lack of close male friendships and emotional vulnerability due to the whole stoicism thing that makes it harder for men to connect to one another, so it’s a bit ironic that manosphere ppl complain about these very real issue and turn around and support the system that lets the issues proliferate, same for the capitalist system that ties masculinity to financial success, and uses women as prizes to be won, so men who are broke and lonely with the intersection of these two big systems will turn around and worship the embodiments of such systems, wealthy famous men who profit from their issues… it’s so paradoxical
i’m mostly talking about men within the manosphere with less critical thinking skills… think patrick bateman wannabes… a lonely stoic and rich man who releases all his issues through violence and sees women as objects… we complain about all these issues especially sui(ide rates for guys and then turn around and glorify the very thing destroying men from the inside, the emotional repression
Women can’t be lonely
Is that really all you got out of this video?
@@alexismacias8436 There is a reason why AI girlfriends are being developed and AI boyfriends not so much. Loneliness is exclusively a male only phenomenon. The data shows literally any woman can get a man anytime they want but the same isn't true for men
@@LoudmouthReviews Only narc1ss1sts are lonely when they can't get attention. If you stop hating yourself you will not feel lonely, believe me. I moved to a village in the mountains some years ago and I don't talk to anyone of the locals. 20 years ago I was married, but my ex didn't love me, it was the most loneliest part of my life.
@@LoudmouthReviewsthe reason is not that women are all getting boyfriends… also if they had boyfriends wouldn’t that equal out the numbers… basic math. the reason is that women tend to have deeper female friendships that men do, this is not male oppression, you guys just connect as deeply because you don’t allow yourself to
@@leenaadams6742 "also if they had boyfriends wouldn’t that equal out the numbers… basic math."
Not if a bunch of women are all dating the same man