I really like how you're so honest about the issues you have in your own grow, and happy to explain how you deal with all of it. Just dumped some spawn jars out in the compost pile this morning feeling like a total failure XD After I sterilize spawn bags and fruit blocks I put them in totes with the lids cracked to cool. Then I spray the inside of the tote with iso before closing them and let sit for several days. May not be possible in a large operation, but its convenient because I can move all my sterile blocks from one room to another without getting airborne contam on them.
Especially this time of year is bad. Farmers tilling kicking up dust, pollen, warm temps, rain, all these things increase the spore/pollen load in the outdoor air. BTW: That might be Cladosporium, not Trichoderma. They look very similar to the naked eye sometimes. Microscopy is the only way to be sure. Clad is very very common across the globe anywhere that is dark, moist, and stagnant air. [attics, crawl spaces, bathrooms, closets, ect.] It is commonly associated with that musty, moldy smell.
Just to follow-up on this... a good indicator is the behavior of the mycelium. Trich releases specific enzymes that will dramatically slow or even prevent other myc from growing; while the Trich will spread very quickly. Clad does not do this and myc will often overgrow the Clad & spores. I have successfully overcome minor Clad by waiting for the myc to colonize and removing any remaining visible spores with qtip and hot soapy water. However, it is just as easy to miss it, spores start a light brown color, shake the jar. Then, a few days later, you have what looks like a jar full of Trich. Like Gary said, the best thing to do is keep your grow space clean. Remove all contam at the first sign and clean your workspace. Review, Renew, Re-cert your sterile process and try again, it happens to the best of us - don't be discouraged.
I've just recently learned that Trichoderma is cultivated large scale, and is used by the agricultural industry world wide. It is used as a natural agent against parasites because of it's anti-fungal and anti-nematode properties. Although off the shelf bread takes a long time to mold because of preservatives such as sodium benzoate, trichoderma will eventually rear it's ugly head. It's the same with fruits and vegetables. For example, If the soil growing the grains we use for grain spawn is amended with trichoderma, imagine the infinite number of trichoderma spores covering these grains as they go to spore in the fields, and through processing! Even if irradition is used to sterilize these products, it can never have a 100% success rate, and as we know it only takes a few unseen spores to ruin all our hard work. So, you might want to think twice before eating lunch, or storing any food stuffs anywhere near your grow areas because our food is exposed to trichoderma on an industrial scale. Thank you for sharing with us Gary. I've been following you for a long time, keep up the good work, and I know trichoderma is a boon to the agricutural industry, but in our case, may in rot in fungal hell ;-)
Respect Dude. Very few people will tell you they messed up or how to fix it! I do not think your stuff is dirty (if I did I would not have subscribed) I think the bad windy weather did a number on you and to have a balance of practical and cost effective vs spare no expense is not easy for any small business. I do not live in the US here (in Africa) they use pump sprayers with bleach to do walls and everything (works on ebola) also saw a comment with peroxide ... if possible I am sure you can do like high pressure vapor with peroxide
Thanks Gary. When someone with your attention to your procedures gets hit like this, it is a great reminder for us all. Appreciate you sharing the good, the bad and the ugly! Cheers!
You could ask a local college's engineering department to do a heat transfer analysis to determine how long it takes a block to heat up to an internal temperature that kills all the troublesome spores.
Hey you ever gonna check them Morchella patched you’ve built the last couple years would love to see the update I know over here in eastern nebraska we’re finding Morchella
I really struggle with contamination too. One thing I've always wondered - considering how difficult it is to keep a clean, uncontaminated environment to grow various types of mushrooms (esp PC), how is it even remotely possible that PC mushrooms will grow in the wild, out in nature where there's NO contamination control whatsoever?
in nature the mushroom is more hardy then most other organisms, inside the bag with high nutrient content, other organisms would thrive and out compete fungi which is why it’s so important to sterilize to give the mushrooms the upper hand 👍🍄❤️
Gary your vid got me thinking that I might want to actively use agar plates to monitor for contam in my work areas. 1) does that make any sense at all 2) is there a fairly benign contaminant I could use to test various agar recipes? Something easily accessible from lab supply houses? Thanks!
I love this video. Trichoderma is a real issue that can become a problem if not hunted down. Cleanliness is key but this seems like it was definitely a bad spawn bag or two. If the blocks contam at same rate and timing it’s likely the mycelium over grew trich in spawn only for it to resurface later. Trich is white like mycelium in vegetative growth state only a different texture so may be hard to differentiate.
yes it could be poor technique from rushing through and also spawn but after I made this video I haven’t had any issues just refocusing and going back to the basics has helped tremendously
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi Agreed! We have had some issues recently that are hard to trace having so many variables. Going back to basics and running a tight ship really helped.
In our facility if something like this happens, it's always an issue with spawn, u can get contam on a few blocks from outside of the bag but it's never mass contamination. If u cooking the grain in a pressure cooker at 1.5 psi for less than 3 hours and your bags are touching each other u doing pasteurization which is not enough to kill spores of Trichoderma. Get your self Temperature measuring strips and test what temp. u getting inside of your blocks.
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi For sure, it's always a problem with the spawns :) We have tossed away like 2000 bags a few weeks ago :D Now we using some high-end autoclaves with temp probes and everything works soooooooo much better now :)
Another tip I find helps; while pasteurization won't kill the spores it will kill the cellular growth. This is what gave birth to the idea of soaking. I still do this with my substrate today. Once it is all mixed and watered like I want it; I let it sit for 24-48hrs before I pasteurize at 170F for 4hrs.
Do you spray down and wipe each bag with iso. This seams to work well for me. But then I am only running 70 or so blocks a week. Thiiking I am going to flip my barrel on side and make it open lids both end to do a pass through to lab also setting up a hepa fan that will pump in barrel for cool down. Seam to work great on a large scale for TR. I know cap and stem was just talking shit about using iso in frot of the hood but I make sure I don't spray towards the filter.just had to do a full break down of the tent output fan seized from spores. Cleaning cleaning cleaning cleaning and more cleaning o and a back up fan and fogger. Lol. Fyi I did save the yellow and Lm. lc's took quite a bit of time but fruiting nice flushes. Quick question running 5 lb. Now untill my storage container is up. Is it worth a second flush. Starting to feel 1 and done may be a better use of space and limit blotch or contamination especially with the lions mane. My first contamination was black soup In Lm. Bags.for me the second d flush on lm seams to be 2 weeks and small thinking I could get a nicer first flush in that period. Thanks for all your video's. That being sad keep spawing mush love. Lol gee I wonder who my influences are.
cool ideas I don’t think the extra precaution would hurt 👍 I think if space is limited 1 flush would help and maybe set up a passive fruiting outside to stretch what you can - I have 2 rooms setup so I can do 4 week cycles, one week one tent, one week the other tent, get second flushes and then flip 👍
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi Do you cover your ffu when not in use? I have a big plastic bag that I keep over mine when not in use to try and keep the airborne particles in the room from settling on the actual unit. I'm not sure it helps, but it definitely hasn't hurt in my experience, especially with the amount of pollen in my area.
There are many ways it could happen. It could happen by gravity, the bags are open for periods of time and if it is pulled out of laminar flow for even a moment spores could be knocked in. Spores could be blown in if the bags are held improperly inside a flow hood. It could be a suction action from the bags cooling. Endospores, maybe? It seems Gary has it under control, or at least on the way towards being under control.
Thanks for being human! It takes guts to admit when you’ve made mistakes. We see all the good results on social media, but very rarely the problems. What are your thoughts on using 6% hydrogen peroxide as a cleaner?
Thats working way too hard... Ive grown mushrooms in the dirtiest environments... the problem may lie within the micron filter patch not filtering enough on those bags
Jesus Christ man. That much contam and your selling a book. And man if your sterile Tek is good and your spawn is good, you should not be contaminating because of your floor or whatever your saying. Can't believe people take advice from you. If your working directly in front of your flow like you should be you won't face these issues. Stop using your lab background to help you make this work. It's two different things Gary. The quality of your product does not have to do with your floors. Nature, gravity, physics, lol. Laminar Flow, sterile technique, good inoculant. You were probably being careless in your inoculation or didn't PC your grains right. I move my bags from outside into my lab also, that's why you wipe with iso...? Lol if you don't unload your steamer in front of a hood you should have understood to wipe them with iso anyways. How in the world did you go to school for lab work and still just don't seem to know anything. If I lost 40 bags in a run at this point ide lose my shit.
haters are gonna hate - Im just being honest 🙏🏻 people love the book it is transparent, easy to follow and look at my mushroom quality. Ask any big grower, everyone goes through ups and downs MUSHLOVE
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi noones hating. I used to like your content. But now your clearly just pushing out whatever, even merch, for whatever. Low quality, high quantity. You used to have decent info. Now your falling off, and a majority of your content is rehashed shit. And now your getting into misinformation territory. Admit it, your contam has nothing to do with you floors and that mop. Enjoy the few sells you get on that book before people realize it's a waste of money, paying for free info that's being rehashed by some RUclipsr.
Glad you seem to know everything. Honestly I hope this happens to you so you learn to be more humble. Not everyone can be perfect and shit happens. These videos are helpful to everyone else so if you don’t “need” them then don’t watch them! No need to be rude.
@@emmyl3216 I'm not being rude. You may take this beyond the hobby level someday. And when this becomes not only your job, but a passion, you care to much to let people like Gary sit and profiteer off of beginners, and not only that, but these living organisms that are so powerful. I used to be one of the biggest fans. Watching every video in the early mornings. If anyone can see what's going on, I guess it's me. It's not an insult. It's a warning to the new mushroom growers. Keep your ears to the ground. I could care less about what all of his followers think. I'm here for those who are dedicated enough to see eventually this is good intentions purely. I believe to much in farming to be negative. If you percieves what I said originally to be negative, do your research, you'll eventually understand why I'm saying what I'm saying. I only want to see more farmers.
I really like how you're so honest about the issues you have in your own grow, and happy to explain how you deal with all of it.
Just dumped some spawn jars out in the compost pile this morning feeling like a total failure XD
After I sterilize spawn bags and fruit blocks I put them in totes with the lids cracked to cool. Then I spray the inside of the tote with iso before closing them and let sit for several days. May not be possible in a large operation, but its convenient because I can move all my sterile blocks from one room to another without getting airborne contam on them.
Thank you
Good ol mop and bucket for the win. Thank you for sharing your perspectives
I always enjoy your uploads. Thanks for the great info.
Yup. Just went through this as well. Got lax with cleaning…. Thinking I can do anything now..I never get contam. … bam!! Contam!! Floors are key.
Especially this time of year is bad. Farmers tilling kicking up dust, pollen, warm temps, rain, all these things increase the spore/pollen load in the outdoor air.
BTW: That might be Cladosporium, not Trichoderma. They look very similar to the naked eye sometimes. Microscopy is the only way to be sure. Clad is very very common across the globe anywhere that is dark, moist, and stagnant air. [attics, crawl spaces, bathrooms, closets, ect.] It is commonly associated with that musty, moldy smell.
maybe - but it didn’t really have an odor and I was doing a bunch of gardening which makes me lean towards trich.
Just to follow-up on this... a good indicator is the behavior of the mycelium. Trich releases specific enzymes that will dramatically slow or even prevent other myc from growing; while the Trich will spread very quickly. Clad does not do this and myc will often overgrow the Clad & spores. I have successfully overcome minor Clad by waiting for the myc to colonize and removing any remaining visible spores with qtip and hot soapy water. However, it is just as easy to miss it, spores start a light brown color, shake the jar. Then, a few days later, you have what looks like a jar full of Trich.
Like Gary said, the best thing to do is keep your grow space clean. Remove all contam at the first sign and clean your workspace. Review, Renew, Re-cert your sterile process and try again, it happens to the best of us - don't be discouraged.
I've just recently learned that Trichoderma is cultivated large scale, and is used by the agricultural industry world wide. It is used as a natural agent against parasites because of it's anti-fungal and anti-nematode properties. Although off the shelf bread takes a long time to mold because of preservatives such as sodium benzoate, trichoderma will eventually rear it's ugly head. It's the same with fruits and vegetables. For example, If the soil growing the grains we use for grain spawn is amended with trichoderma, imagine the infinite number of trichoderma spores covering these grains as they go to spore in the fields, and through processing! Even if irradition is used to sterilize these products, it can never have a 100% success rate, and as we know it only takes a few unseen spores to ruin all our hard work. So, you might want to think twice before eating lunch, or storing any food stuffs anywhere near your grow areas because our food is exposed to trichoderma on an industrial scale. Thank you for sharing with us Gary. I've been following you for a long time, keep up the good work, and I know trichoderma is a boon to the agricutural industry, but in our case, may in rot in fungal hell ;-)
Respect Dude. Very few people will tell you they messed up or how to fix it! I do not think your stuff is dirty (if I did I would not have subscribed) I think the bad windy weather did a number on you and to have a balance of practical and cost effective vs spare no expense is not easy for any small business. I do not live in the US here (in Africa) they use pump sprayers with bleach to do walls and everything (works on ebola) also saw a comment with peroxide ... if possible I am sure you can do like high pressure vapor with peroxide
Thanks Gary. When someone with your attention to your procedures gets hit like this, it is a great reminder for us all. Appreciate you sharing the good, the bad and the ugly! Cheers!
Pro lead-in, brother!!!!!
thanks ! always great information from u !
You could ask a local college's engineering department to do a heat transfer analysis to determine how long it takes a block to heat up to an internal temperature that kills all the troublesome spores.
I have heat sterilization pouches I can validate with
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi if they arent biological indicator strips they won't do you much good.
Hey you ever gonna check them Morchella patched you’ve built the last couple years would love to see the update I know over here in eastern nebraska we’re finding Morchella
I really struggle with contamination too. One thing I've always wondered - considering how difficult it is to keep a clean, uncontaminated environment to grow various types of mushrooms (esp PC), how is it even remotely possible that PC mushrooms will grow in the wild, out in nature where there's NO contamination control whatsoever?
in nature the mushroom is more hardy then most other organisms, inside the bag with high nutrient content, other organisms would thrive and out compete fungi which is why it’s so important to sterilize to give the mushrooms the upper hand 👍🍄❤️
Gary your vid got me thinking that I might want to actively use agar plates to monitor for contam in my work areas. 1) does that make any sense at all 2) is there a fairly benign contaminant I could use to test various agar recipes? Something easily accessible from lab supply houses? Thanks!
yes check out our video on “the colors of mycology” this is exactly what I do
I love this video. Trichoderma is a real issue that can become a problem if not hunted down. Cleanliness is key but this seems like it was definitely a bad spawn bag or two. If the blocks contam at same rate and timing it’s likely the mycelium over grew trich in spawn only for it to resurface later. Trich is white like mycelium in vegetative growth state only a different texture so may be hard to differentiate.
yes it could be poor technique from rushing through and also spawn but after I made this video I haven’t had any issues just refocusing and going back to the basics has helped tremendously
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi Agreed! We have had some issues recently that are hard to trace having so many variables. Going back to basics and running a tight ship really helped.
What would happen to the mycelium if you put some silver or gold powder in the growbag?
In our facility if something like this happens, it's always an issue with spawn, u can get contam on a few blocks from outside of the bag but it's never mass contamination. If u cooking the grain in a pressure cooker at 1.5 psi for less than 3 hours and your bags are touching each other u doing pasteurization which is not enough to kill spores of Trichoderma. Get your self Temperature measuring strips and test what temp. u getting inside of your blocks.
I did just use a bunch of new spawn so this could be the case
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi For sure, it's always a problem with the spawns :) We have tossed away like 2000 bags a few weeks ago :D Now we using some high-end autoclaves with temp probes and everything works soooooooo much better now :)
Another tip I find helps; while pasteurization won't kill the spores it will kill the cellular growth. This is what gave birth to the idea of soaking. I still do this with my substrate today. Once it is all mixed and watered like I want it; I let it sit for 24-48hrs before I pasteurize at 170F for 4hrs.
I agree it was probably in the bags before they went into that room. I keep my bags in my bedroom and get little contamination.
@@AaronAlso So you soak your CVG (or similar) in regular tap water 1-2 days, then drain, THEN soak in boiling water for 4hrs?
Great advice!
Do you spray down and wipe each bag with iso. This seams to work well for me. But then I am only running 70 or so blocks a week. Thiiking I am going to flip my barrel on side and make it open lids both end to do a pass through to lab also setting up a hepa fan that will pump in barrel for cool down. Seam to work great on a large scale for TR. I know cap and stem was just talking shit about using iso in frot of the hood but I make sure I don't spray towards the filter.just had to do a full break down of the tent output fan seized from spores. Cleaning cleaning cleaning cleaning and more cleaning o and a back up fan and fogger. Lol. Fyi I did save the yellow and Lm. lc's took quite a bit of time but fruiting nice flushes. Quick question running 5 lb. Now untill my storage container is up. Is it worth a second flush. Starting to feel 1 and done may be a better use of space and limit blotch or contamination especially with the lions mane. My first contamination was black soup In Lm. Bags.for me the second d flush on lm seams to be 2 weeks and small thinking I could get a nicer first flush in that period.
Thanks for all your video's. That being sad keep spawing mush love.
Lol gee I wonder who my influences are.
cool ideas I don’t think the extra precaution would hurt 👍 I think if space is limited 1 flush would help and maybe set up a passive fruiting outside to stretch what you can - I have 2 rooms setup so I can do 4 week cycles, one week one tent, one week the other tent, get second flushes and then flip 👍
Love
I read that bleach removes the color of mold but does not actually destroy the spores themselves.
off topic but, can you say which lighting you use for your tent or what you recommend?
I just use LED shop
lights make sure they are waterproof - Ive used T5’s in the past they worked really well too but gave off excessive heat
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi did you get yours on amazon? could you give a link if so?
Any concern that you might be selecting for bleach resistant biology?
Yes I like to rotate between cleaners - bleach, quaternary ammonia, sanidate are my top choices just make sure not to mix
Hello Gary,
Can You make a video about syringes and needles sterilization in pressure cooker?
just put them in sterilization pouches and pressure cook for 20 min at 15psi/250F
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi Can I just wrap them into aluminium foil?
You can wrap them in foil, or even put them into a jar with a filter lid!
Could be spores settling on your flo hood when it isn't on. Turn her on and it will blow them off maybe slowly. Maybe?
yes another possability - I haven’t had any issues since I filmed this video I took a hard 180 and really refocused hah
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi Do you cover your ffu when not in use? I have a big plastic bag that I keep over mine when not in use to try and keep the airborne particles in the room from settling on the actual unit. I'm not sure it helps, but it definitely hasn't hurt in my experience, especially with the amount of pollen in my area.
What cleaning solution do you use in your mop? Also bleach?
yes either bleach or quaternary ammonia but not at the same time
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi wonder if bleach will f up wooden floors though.
Can we just re sterlized the contaminated bag and re usd it?
Im not sure it might be worth trying I just never felt confident enough about it
Hey how many square feet is your facility?(:
How did it get into grow bag if I was sterile?
poor aseptic technique
There are many ways it could happen. It could happen by gravity, the bags are open for periods of time and if it is pulled out of laminar flow for even a moment spores could be knocked in. Spores could be blown in if the bags are held improperly inside a flow hood. It could be a suction action from the bags cooling. Endospores, maybe? It seems Gary has it under control, or at least on the way towards being under control.
My lab is an easy-up wrapped in plastic located in a repurposed automotive shop. Dust is my biggest problem.
setup a stand alone hepa filter and vacuum the whole place with a hepa filtered shop vac and mop - that should help tremendously
Thanks for being human! It takes guts to admit when you’ve made mistakes. We see all the good results on social media, but very rarely the problems. What are your thoughts on using 6% hydrogen peroxide as a cleaner?
it works well - I like the product “Sanidate” which is hydrogen peroxide and acetic acid as well
Thats working way too hard... Ive grown mushrooms in the dirtiest environments... the problem may lie within the micron filter patch not filtering enough on those bags
Ive been using the same bags for years but maybe.
Might be a hole in the HEPA filter.
I can test
👍👍👍🚬⛽🌬🍄🍄🍄
Ohhhhhhyeaaaaaaah
There is a corn cob looking uv light that will kill the rest of these spores i promise it works
Jesus Christ man. That much contam and your selling a book. And man if your sterile Tek is good and your spawn is good, you should not be contaminating because of your floor or whatever your saying. Can't believe people take advice from you. If your working directly in front of your flow like you should be you won't face these issues. Stop using your lab background to help you make this work. It's two different things Gary. The quality of your product does not have to do with your floors. Nature, gravity, physics, lol. Laminar Flow, sterile technique, good inoculant. You were probably being careless in your inoculation or didn't PC your grains right. I move my bags from outside into my lab also, that's why you wipe with iso...? Lol if you don't unload your steamer in front of a hood you should have understood to wipe them with iso anyways. How in the world did you go to school for lab work and still just don't seem to know anything. If I lost 40 bags in a run at this point ide lose my shit.
My thoughts too
haters are gonna hate - Im just being honest 🙏🏻 people love the book it is transparent, easy to follow and look at my mushroom quality. Ask any big grower, everyone goes through ups and downs MUSHLOVE
@@FreshfromtheFarmFungi noones hating. I used to like your content. But now your clearly just pushing out whatever, even merch, for whatever. Low quality, high quantity. You used to have decent info. Now your falling off, and a majority of your content is rehashed shit. And now your getting into misinformation territory. Admit it, your contam has nothing to do with you floors and that mop. Enjoy the few sells you get on that book before people realize it's a waste of money, paying for free info that's being rehashed by some RUclipsr.
Glad you seem to know everything. Honestly I hope this happens to you so you learn to be more humble. Not everyone can be perfect and shit happens. These videos are helpful to everyone else so if you don’t “need” them then don’t watch them! No need to be rude.
@@emmyl3216 I'm not being rude. You may take this beyond the hobby level someday. And when this becomes not only your job, but a passion, you care to much to let people like Gary sit and profiteer off of beginners, and not only that, but these living organisms that are so powerful. I used to be one of the biggest fans. Watching every video in the early mornings. If anyone can see what's going on, I guess it's me. It's not an insult. It's a warning to the new mushroom growers. Keep your ears to the ground. I could care less about what all of his followers think. I'm here for those who are dedicated enough to see eventually this is good intentions purely. I believe to much in farming to be negative. If you percieves what I said originally to be negative, do your research, you'll eventually understand why I'm saying what I'm saying. I only want to see more farmers.
I too had about a 40% loss last month...
Talk about hard knoxxx