I'm a GTA V Vehicle modder myself. The sources for models I get are either models ripped from Forza Motorsport 4 or grab insanely expensive models from Turbosquid. Even with converted models I can still create cop cars that no one has ever seen before. LSPDFR is one of the popular modding community and most "base models" are from Forza or other video games. So for conversions to be called "nothing to the experience" baffles me
Having this kind of stance about from-scratch mods and conversions probably has stems back from the old days of sim-modding for rFactor or GTR 2 where the standard for models, physics and details were much lower than what they are today. The average time it took for creators to reach the visual standard those simulations had wasn't close to what it is now. Nevermind the fact that in those days visuals from different games/simulations were all over the place and stuck out like a sore thumb if converted. 15 years on it just seems not viable anymore to spend all that time on something that takes months or sometimes years to finish without getting compensated for your work. Especially if all that can be short-cut that 'easily'. So obviously you have a rather small amount of people enthusiastic enough to go that route. Why some people would rather prefer less or nothing over some conversions even if well done I do not understand.
@@TheJakeMG theres people like myself: i know for a fact the Mazda Furai will never be in Assetto corsa and i want to experience that car in vr, even if its not 100% accurate. conversions are out of love and passion. id be so happy if a conversion from grid legends to ac existed for it, reliving my GTPSP memories of first discovering the car but now getting to see every part of it.
This is extremely weird to hear coming from a COD Zombies background where mods are primarily made with rips from past (and future) COD games, namely weapons and props. Hell, even professional tools have been created to rip assets accurately and with quality to be used in new, unique ways, and they're celebrated by the community. This is disheartening to hear because like you said, repurposing assets to experience old content in new ways is just as valid as any other form of modding.
At least Modders rip models with passion and for free, we had been seeing AAA companies do the same for years and asking 60 dollars+ each year... Look at Forza selling DLCs with cars from Forza Motorsport 4. I love Conversions (Specially from Gran Turismo) because, since the Refracted Headlight patch from CSP, those are the best quality cars in any car game on PC
I also entirely disagree with the dismissal of converted content. It's free content that you can ignore entirely and that is oftentimes high quality. What's there to even complain about?
1:50 Yeah, it's definitely just most and not all. There's a modding community called Vanillaworks for GTA V and while their earlier mods have models converts from other games, their latest mods are all scratch made models.
The problem is that RaceDepartment, the biggest 3rd party content hosting, website is a registered company and they have to abide by copyright rules. If you scratch make a mod of anything its ok, but as soon as you convert from the Big AAA developers, (Forza or Gran Turismo or CodeMasters) they're not allowed to have them on their website. There's even a case that we have some of the best track mods for example, in AC that are conversions from ACC or Forza, Im thinking sx_lemans, which is by far the best modern version of the Circuit de La Sarthe and beats the one on RD by a mile, but since it's a Forza convert it can't be hosted there and it gets a lot less more attention than anything on RD. The problem is copyright laws man!
Not sure what that has to do with this video? If you’re interested in me comparing arcade vs. sim racing, I do have this video: ruclips.net/video/bw31v6GW_eg/видео.html
It's no surprise Kunos are trying to distance themselves from conversions. Look at it this way: some game company paid huge license fee for a car, took a time to model it, and then Assetto Corsa gets that model as a mod with no regard of copyright. Not a good look when Kunos are trying to negotiate car licensing for example. The core issue is the conflict between how the game was originally envisioned vs how is it used by the most players. One solution could be is to create the next sim purely as a modding platform. That's what Isi did. They saw popularity of mods for their F1 games and released rFactor where included content was basically a placeholder. It was THE simracing platform for mods unlil AC slowly took the leading position. They went with licensed content for the sequel though which questions viability of this approach. Basically 99% of rFactor installations were pirated. To make profit from a game it needs to look cool and shiny to a regular joe, enthusiasts buying it with intent of modding may be not enough.
As soon as he said that other games like gta have converted mods, I got flashbacks where a guy got sued by take-two for importing the red dead redemption II map into GTA 5, and that was a very sketchy situation
Doing everything from scratch is really hard for making a mod, except if you gonna make those mods like your own portfolio. Scripting, 3D modelling, and sound design takes a lot of work.
I think the only additional problem a conversion adds that a regular mod doesn't is ethics. With a conversion, you are taking someone elses work, normally without permission, and using that as the base. Although 99% of the time it's being taken from big name racing games so the guy that made the original was paid a salary to make it, and probably doesn't care too much as they're not losing out on money.
I only ever converted tracks because I hated the physics in the game they came from. And only ever shared them to give back for all the free mods I have enjoyed. Deal with it.jpeg
I play with few conversion mods BUT there is problem with these mods: this is literally stealing content from developers - sharing their work for free. ALL CONVERSIONS are stealing Imo, but as with piracy, only person distributing "stolen" content (even for free) is responsible for this. I am not counting abandonware here, it should be widely available as nobody is able to benefit from it financially. But there is another reason you've mentioned - quality of mods. AC is much easier to mod than other racing games, therefore creating visual part of mod is pretty easy. At the start of AC modding nobody had problem with using "rips" but with time the "mod market" was flooded with low quality mods with little to none work done on them. The general rule developed in the community was "if someone takes their time to create model themselves, even pretty bad one, they will be at least motivated to do physics justice". It isn't universal truth or anything like that, but looking at RD you can see that it works. Most of simracers don't care about graphics that much, they care about physics. And this is why most of mod sites are losing visitors/becoming stale and RaceDepartment is constantly growing. Track conversions aren't treated that way as you cannot use data from other track to shortcut modding process. Even when you are usig "rips", you still have to properly modify them to work in AC and therefore there isn't huge gap in average quality we see in car mods. BTW drifting scene in AC is where almost every car is ripped from other game. There are few drifiting communities with "quality standards" but most of them are using low quality mods with converted, badly edited models and not-matching physics. As an additional example I would show Bazza's modpacks - there is a lot of passion behind them and even though, they are conversions, they are popular among community and widely used in racing leagues.
I understand the argument here, but when you’re reusing and converting assets you’re not driving sales away from the original game, at least 99% of the time. A mod is offering a different experience than a whole other game.
Problem worth conversions is that you are essentially taking someone else's work without permission. It is wrong regardless of how good your intentions are. You wouldn't be happy if someone took your vids and profited of them without your permission
I'm a GTA V Vehicle modder myself. The sources for models I get are either models ripped from Forza Motorsport 4 or grab insanely expensive models from Turbosquid. Even with converted models I can still create cop cars that no one has ever seen before. LSPDFR is one of the popular modding community and most "base models" are from Forza or other video games.
So for conversions to be called "nothing to the experience" baffles me
Having this kind of stance about from-scratch mods and conversions probably has stems back from the old days of sim-modding for rFactor or GTR 2 where the standard for models, physics and details were much lower than what they are today. The average time it took for creators to reach the visual standard those simulations had wasn't close to what it is now. Nevermind the fact that in those days visuals from different games/simulations were all over the place and stuck out like a sore thumb if converted. 15 years on it just seems not viable anymore to spend all that time on something that takes months or sometimes years to finish without getting compensated for your work. Especially if all that can be short-cut that 'easily'. So obviously you have a rather small amount of people enthusiastic enough to go that route. Why some people would rather prefer less or nothing over some conversions even if well done I do not understand.
This whole argument thing seriously just feels like gatekeeping to me
I really think it is. It’s very hard for someone to dive into modding when people tell you that you have to do it in the most difficult way possible.
@@TheJakeMG theres people like myself: i know for a fact the Mazda Furai will never be in Assetto corsa and i want to experience that car in vr, even if its not 100% accurate. conversions are out of love and passion. id be so happy if a conversion from grid legends to ac existed for it, reliving my GTPSP memories of first discovering the car but now getting to see every part of it.
This is extremely weird to hear coming from a COD Zombies background where mods are primarily made with rips from past (and future) COD games, namely weapons and props. Hell, even professional tools have been created to rip assets accurately and with quality to be used in new, unique ways, and they're celebrated by the community. This is disheartening to hear because like you said, repurposing assets to experience old content in new ways is just as valid as any other form of modding.
At least Modders rip models with passion and for free, we had been seeing AAA companies do the same for years and asking 60 dollars+ each year... Look at Forza selling DLCs with cars from Forza Motorsport 4. I love Conversions (Specially from Gran Turismo) because, since the Refracted Headlight patch from CSP, those are the best quality cars in any car game on PC
I also entirely disagree with the dismissal of converted content. It's free content that you can ignore entirely and that is oftentimes high quality. What's there to even complain about?
Wow, those AE86 cinematics are really cool!😍
I wonder who could have done them? ;)
Credit to Espirit3905 for the car and Rusty Russell for that video: ruclips.net/video/l7dcq-XwXVI/видео.html
@@TheJakeMG oh man, that was just a friendly jab, but thanks☺️
No idea the one who made the video was the one commenting... that was an oof on my part. I don't know how I missed your name lol
@@TheJakeMG No worries man😁
Great video by the way👍
1:50 Yeah, it's definitely just most and not all. There's a modding community called Vanillaworks for GTA V and while their earlier mods have models converts from other games, their latest mods are all scratch made models.
The problem is that RaceDepartment, the biggest 3rd party content hosting, website is a registered company and they have to abide by copyright rules. If you scratch make a mod of anything its ok, but as soon as you convert from the Big AAA developers, (Forza or Gran Turismo or CodeMasters) they're not allowed to have them on their website.
There's even a case that we have some of the best track mods for example, in AC that are conversions from ACC or Forza, Im thinking sx_lemans, which is by far the best modern version of the Circuit de La Sarthe and beats the one on RD by a mile, but since it's a Forza convert it can't be hosted there and it gets a lot less more attention than anything on RD.
The problem is copyright laws man!
I'm not saying every mod should be on RD. Their ToS is perfectly fine and makes sense. I'm against the idea that converted mods are automatically bad.
Awesome video dude! Keep them going you have mad potential
this has recently become a big thing in the beamNG modding community; conversions of maps from assetto corsa into beam
hey jake love the content
Ask anyone who has installed the Red Bull X2010 and Hakone, they'll say otherwise :)
I'm just hope that arcade racing gets popular as well
Not sure what that has to do with this video?
If you’re interested in me comparing arcade vs. sim racing, I do have this video: ruclips.net/video/bw31v6GW_eg/видео.html
It's no surprise Kunos are trying to distance themselves from conversions. Look at it this way: some game company paid huge license fee for a car, took a time to model it, and then Assetto Corsa gets that model as a mod with no regard of copyright. Not a good look when Kunos are trying to negotiate car licensing for example.
The core issue is the conflict between how the game was originally envisioned vs how is it used by the most players.
One solution could be is to create the next sim purely as a modding platform. That's what Isi did. They saw popularity of mods for their F1 games and released rFactor where included content was basically a placeholder. It was THE simracing platform for mods unlil AC slowly took the leading position. They went with licensed content for the sequel though which questions viability of this approach. Basically 99% of rFactor installations were pirated. To make profit from a game it needs to look cool and shiny to a regular joe, enthusiasts buying it with intent of modding may be not enough.
I agree with the video btw. Also, it's titled quite unfortunately, in the title it sounds like you are with the conversions hating crowd.
As soon as he said that other games like gta have converted mods, I got flashbacks where a guy got sued by take-two for importing the red dead redemption II map into GTA 5, and that was a very sketchy situation
Doing everything from scratch is really hard for making a mod, except if you gonna make those mods like your own portfolio. Scripting, 3D modelling, and sound design takes a lot of work.
I think the only additional problem a conversion adds that a regular mod doesn't is ethics. With a conversion, you are taking someone elses work, normally without permission, and using that as the base. Although 99% of the time it's being taken from big name racing games so the guy that made the original was paid a salary to make it, and probably doesn't care too much as they're not losing out on money.
Eh, imma just gonna vibe in my carson 500 gt in the nurburgring...wait that would be so cool if burnout cars get converted into assetto corsa
It’ll happen eventually. I’ve seen Burnout 2 models ported to AC.
I only ever converted tracks because I hated the physics in the game they came from. And only ever shared them to give back for all the free mods I have enjoyed. Deal with it.jpeg
I play with few conversion mods BUT there is problem with these mods: this is literally stealing content from developers - sharing their work for free. ALL CONVERSIONS are stealing Imo, but as with piracy, only person distributing "stolen" content (even for free) is responsible for this. I am not counting abandonware here, it should be widely available as nobody is able to benefit from it financially.
But there is another reason you've mentioned - quality of mods.
AC is much easier to mod than other racing games, therefore creating visual part of mod is pretty easy. At the start of AC modding nobody had problem with using "rips" but with time the "mod market" was flooded with low quality mods with little to none work done on them. The general rule developed in the community was "if someone takes their time to create model themselves, even pretty bad one, they will be at least motivated to do physics justice". It isn't universal truth or anything like that, but looking at RD you can see that it works. Most of simracers don't care about graphics that much, they care about physics. And this is why most of mod sites are losing visitors/becoming stale and RaceDepartment is constantly growing.
Track conversions aren't treated that way as you cannot use data from other track to shortcut modding process. Even when you are usig "rips", you still have to properly modify them to work in AC and therefore there isn't huge gap in average quality we see in car mods. BTW drifting scene in AC is where almost every car is ripped from other game. There are few drifiting communities with "quality standards" but most of them are using low quality mods with converted, badly edited models and not-matching physics.
As an additional example I would show Bazza's modpacks - there is a lot of passion behind them and even though, they are conversions, they are popular among community and widely used in racing leagues.
If the assets came from AAA developers , the guy who made it was paid for his work , i mean why do we care about big companies
I understand the argument here, but when you’re reusing and converting assets you’re not driving sales away from the original game, at least 99% of the time. A mod is offering a different experience than a whole other game.
Hello
how is this still on 2k views srsly this is very detailed and shit
The video's original title was pretty terrible. The current title has only been there for a few months.
Wtf nobody early
Problem worth conversions is that you are essentially taking someone else's work without permission. It is wrong regardless of how good your intentions are. You wouldn't be happy if someone took your vids and profited of them without your permission
I'm sorry but that's just not a good comparison. Videos don't work like game mods do.
If we talk about videos - using gameplay or pictures from the internet in the videos is illegal too.