I love these genuine conversations. From the specific use of words, gestures, proper logic and questioning to explain and most importantly, respect and mannerisms, that the other person is cared and listened to.
If God existed for ever why can't the universe exist for ever. If God created the universe, did God come from nothing. If you assume that God created the universe there are other questions you need to answer as why God created suffering, why God would create a world where one creature has to eat another to survive. Is that the best design God could come up with. Why were the dinosaurs wiped out. Why could God not reveal that dinosaurs and mammoths roamed the earth before humans.
@@yade5979 There are many flaws in the argument. We don't know if the universe came into existence. Since everything that we know is this universe, we cannot jump to conclusion that there is anything outside the universe.
@@Seeker-ec1dd and everything we know has a beginning, even the most prevalent theory in science regarding the origin is the big bang, so it was at least a singularity at some point, and anything that has a change either got the change externally or it was by the will of the thing itself (ie the ball is kicked, I do the kicking by virtue of my Will), so either you give the singularity that became the universe a will which made it change form, or it was done so by something external, and that something had to be always exist and have a will, or it would be in the same situation as the universe, and you can't do this argument forever since you end up in a infinite regress, And now you just go further rationally and logically, that's when you will reach the conclusion of a uncaused existence that caused the universe as we know it, with further steps you will reach the same idea that Islam preaches about God, not the attributes or the teachings of the religion,but it's idea how such a being has to be in order to have that kind of position
@@yade5979 Again you are making wrong conclusions. The big bang theory does not explain where the singularity came from. If you assume that there is an external entity or god, you need explain how god was created. You cannot just make a statement that god is necessary. That is not logic. Again if you inspect the Abrahamic faiths including Islam, you will see that many of the stories and ideas are picked up from earlier civilizations and cultures. If you see the story of Adam and Eve, it is a myth created by humans. If you really believe that God created humans from clay, then I can say anything further.
@@Seeker-ec1dd we can say that everything that exists has a origin or cause, but as I said, you don't even need to assume the universe began to exist, you can assume the singularity exists forever, you still need to assume a external source in order for the mindless singularity to change form, and assuming a will that allows a change of form for the singularity doesn't make sense since we can observe the universe and see it doesn't have a will So you must believe in a uncaused cause since it's literally the only logical conclusion
I love these genuine conversations. From the specific use of words, gestures, proper logic and questioning to explain and most importantly, respect and mannerisms, that the other person is cared and listened to.
its not genuine, the guy is clearly trying hard to obfuscate the issue
"creation is a choice" made by the Creator. I guess he not realize what in his hand..
If God existed for ever why can't the universe exist for ever. If God created the universe, did God come from nothing. If you assume that God created the universe there are other questions you need to answer as why God created suffering, why God would create a world where one creature has to eat another to survive. Is that the best design God could come up with. Why were the dinosaurs wiped out. Why could God not reveal that dinosaurs and mammoths roamed the earth before humans.
Read up on the kalam cosmological argument,it will answer your idea of why God instead of the universe
@@yade5979 There are many flaws in the argument.
We don't know if the universe came into existence. Since everything that we know is this universe, we cannot jump to conclusion that there is anything outside the universe.
@@Seeker-ec1dd and everything we know has a beginning, even the most prevalent theory in science regarding the origin is the big bang, so it was at least a singularity at some point, and anything that has a change either got the change externally or it was by the will of the thing itself (ie the ball is kicked, I do the kicking by virtue of my Will), so either you give the singularity that became the universe a will which made it change form, or it was done so by something external, and that something had to be always exist and have a will, or it would be in the same situation as the universe, and you can't do this argument forever since you end up in a infinite regress,
And now you just go further rationally and logically, that's when you will reach the conclusion of a uncaused existence that caused the universe as we know it, with further steps you will reach the same idea that Islam preaches about God, not the attributes or the teachings of the religion,but it's idea how such a being has to be in order to have that kind of position
@@yade5979 Again you are making wrong conclusions. The big bang theory does not explain where the singularity came from.
If you assume that there is an external entity or god, you need explain how god was created. You cannot just make a statement that god is necessary. That is not logic.
Again if you inspect the Abrahamic faiths including Islam, you will see that many of the stories and ideas are picked up from earlier civilizations and cultures. If you see the story of Adam and Eve, it is a myth created by humans. If you really believe that God created humans from clay, then I can say anything further.
@@Seeker-ec1dd we can say that everything that exists has a origin or cause, but as I said, you don't even need to assume the universe began to exist, you can assume the singularity exists forever, you still need to assume a external source in order for the mindless singularity to change form, and assuming a will that allows a change of form for the singularity doesn't make sense since we can observe the universe and see it doesn't have a will
So you must believe in a uncaused cause since it's literally the only logical conclusion