No matter what anyone thinks of Avril for me, as a guitar teacher, Avril was great in the 2000's. So many young students came to me wanting to learn her tunes. For a lot of my students Avril was the first music they ever played on guitar. To see a young kid walking out of the studio I teach out of feeling empowered because they can play the music they love, well... Nothing will ever beat that feeling, so it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks of her music. She inspired an entire generation. That's important, and I got to watch that happen in real time.
I was one of those girls. Nobody's Home was one of the first songs I learned how to play on the guitar. I also loved to play songs like Complicated, I'm With You, Naked, Things I'll Never Say, My Happy Ending... Oh, Runaway is so fun to play, those verse chords!
wow... that was great see this comment. I'm from Brazil and my first tune was the entire Let Go album hahaha. I asked for a teacher and it was a great time for both of us and I have never forget every song since then. So I can say that Avril brought me to music. She is great, a little naeve, but really tallent.
Ah that feeling is so great! It's so awesome to watch people get so invested in the instrument and really make it their own. You know they will keep playing for years when they catch the bug!
@@lincolnzeferino8287 🇧🇷 that's why I love her, she is unique. And I don't hate her, or her songs, I still play, sing along and learn the new ones, I remember when me and my kids first listen to her, after knowing all the songs she wrote for another singers, my respect to her just grown.
I stagehanded a small festival that Avril headlined in the early aughts. There were rumblings all day that she was super sick and going to cancel. When it was time for her set to start, she had to be carried to the side of the stage, puked in the trash can next to the stairs. Then she hauled herself up onto the stage and performed her guts out for an hour before saying goodnight, walking off stage, and basically collapsing. None of the middle schoolers that looked up to her and came out to see her would have had any idea. Her music's still not my thing, but that's seriously bad ass and I've had total respect for her since then.
Around 2010, she was set to do an outdoor show in Burnaby BC to open a new Best Buy. Before the show started, it started to snow heavily. She did the whole show in a snowstorm and the crowd loved it. There's footage online I think.
Avril, Paramore, Evanescence got me through high school and college so I really gave credit to all of these artist or bands for going through one of my toughest part of my life.
There are some saying it's in their "songs to play when the homies aren't around" playlist. Hello Kitty belongs in the "Songs to play when the homies ARE around" list, cuz the true homies are those who stay
The "obnoxious" sound of Hello Kitty was because it was marketed for Japanese audiences. If you are unfamiliar with Japanese music they do sound like that, with a funny, stupid, and unserious lyrics.
Idc what anyone thinks- I would’ve never gotten into goth, punk, metal and grunge music if it wasn’t for Avril. For me she was the first alternative artist I ever listen to. if it wasn’t for this I don’t think I would’ve ever found my corner of a community and would’ve been forever damned to feel like an outsider. I know that when she came out with the last 2-3 albums people were saying she was being replaced by a lookalike or some other outlandish thing but I never thought that the community hated her?
Probably because she isn’t punk, Avril herself said that she hated being called punk because her music isn’t punk and yet we have all kinds of posers calling Avril punk
It’s more her fans, like even if this video Finn say she deserves apart of the pop punk Mt Rushmore. I don’t hate her music at all but it’s weird that so many people claim she’s pop punk when she really isn’t.
@@bennymountain1 Yeah it honestly sucks. She was the main singer too. On the other hand tatu as a whole is so "problematic" that you kinda have to just put all that shit aside haha.
@@retsamcm huh I guess I thought more people were like me or more emotional haha. And it’s not like this group of songs *always* makes me cry every single time I listen to them; sometimes it’ll just be a one time thing, where the song triggers an emotional response to something else already going on in my life, like a breakup or the death of a loved one.
@@Jarbas.Travels I'm With You is great, but I think Remember When, Let Me Go and some songs from her Head Above Water album are even better. She also wrote some great unreleased ballads, like her version for BreakAway (supposed to be featured in her first record), Won't Let You Go (from her 2007 album, written by her and Diane Warren), If I Said I Love You (from her self-titled album), Lights Out and Lucky Ones (2019). IDK, she's so good at writing ballads.
I really love this video! It strikes a chord with me because I feel defensive toward young folks with talent who get dissed and women with talent who get dissed, and I also love cheering for people who share my nationality who find success outside of Canada. I’m sharing this with a friend who was a big Avril fan about 14 years ago.
Finn, I can feel how much you believe every word you say in this vid. I can tell you respect her hustle and how good it feels to be making that argument. Just wanna validate your approach (and fancy looking new camera set up) and say it's noticeable and cool. I have had the same experience in the country music world, watching artists that seemed like such gimmicks eventually gain the respect of the whole intelligentsia, self included, and prove that they did have a vision for their careers. That has definitely has gotten me to approach new acts with a more curious mind than I used to.
It brings a smile to my face to see content creators supporting each other. Finn might not do a lot of vids on country but what he has to say is applicable to the music industry across the board. So happy that other content creators that cover music also watch Finn's channel.
During my battle jacket punk teen years I used to stand up for Avril Lavigne if anyone talked shit. Her songs are so fun and catchy. People always thought I was bullshitting them and were perplexed that, nah, you can be a crusty, grindy punk and still have hella fun listening to a banger Avril song. Great video dude.
I had two separate friends from different schools who were super judgy abt her and my being an earnest fan. definitely just following a lame trend (sk8ter boi wasn't great, but I could listen to the rest of the album from beginning to end)
Her songs tell stories that's what makes them good. They're not just oo rra rah a la la or just catchy pop tune with typical lyrics. Her songs actually tell clear story people can actually see themselves in
as a die-hard metal lover, I personally really love Avril music, she's a really talented musician, her songs like innocence, when you're gone, the best damn thing, my happy ending, don't tell me, complicated are a few of my jam songs by her beside extreme metal and hardcore punk
@@min1549 I stopped listening after her second album too. It was interesting though... Just the other day for Thanksgiving, my brother pulled out Tim Burton’s Alice in Wonderland because I’ve never seen it. The credits start rolling and after a few quick seconds of them he stopped playing the DVD. But it only took me those short few seconds to recognize that voice! It took me about 30 seconds to put my finger precisely on her name. I have the personality type where I will stop everything and look something up if I think of a question that the internet can easily answer, to appease my curiosity, so as soon as I asked out loud “was that Avril Lavigne?” (and my brother had no clue because that was never his type of music), I looked it up and confirmed it. The song name was Alice, ofc. Just from the little I heard, it sounded great! Definitely made me want to give it a listen in full - it sounded like a very full and mature song, with an orchestra and all, iirc. My brother was impressed that I nailed the artist’s name so fast - which he shouldn’t be surprised because I worked in the music industry for a while due to how passionate I was for music. I remember working in it at the time Avril popped out of nowhere (she wasn’t on the label I was working for at the time), and seeing a young co-worker of mine begin wearing the ties all the time lol. She went full on poser with the punk-like outfits, and I say poser because she never listened to anything punk. It was a little cringe tbh. She worked in the art department with me, and liked to design her own cards to give to others for their birthday, or to thank them or congratulate them etc... They were cute and thoughtful, but it was funny also because she began incorporating super similar graphics to what one would see in Avril’s branding and promotional artwork etc. You know, things like a skull and cross bones with a pink hair bow on the skull - stuff like that.
Yep, deathcore and metalcore lover here - and Avril Lavigne will always have a special place in my playlist. Take Me Away, My Happy Ending and Together - practically the second album remains a killer album to me.
I could not agree more. I'm a 64-year-old male metal-head who has been to a thousand metal concerts. Avril rocks. It's not even debatable. That is one talented woman. Her style of music may not be heavy metal, but her attitude sure is.
Love that this video gives Avril Lavigne all of the credit, props, and respect she deserves, especially as a young female artist who's had the courage and vision to do what she did at her age. Great video and spot on.
Being a millennial who was about 11-12 in the early 2000's the past two videos you have done have hit hard! Both Hybrid Theory and Let Go were huge in bringing me into my addiction which is music
“Head above water” is a master piece and I might play this song at my wedding (our couples dance) a couple weeks from now because I have Lyme disease as well. I play this song whenever I need motivation to continue on with life...
Well put. Her track with Mod Sun has had me delving a bit deeper into her work lately. I remember when Skater Boi was all over mtv2 and genuinely liking the track. Even though she was obviously more a pop artist than part of the rock world back then i think over time she has come to be regarded as a credible artist and one of the more significant ones to bridge that gap.
I'd say she was a bit of both a pop singer and rockstar. Her second album was definitely more rock than anything. It's mostly alternative rock, grunge, nu metal, punk rock, and post-grunge. Still waiting for the day she makes another heavier alternative album.
The songs on "let go" each have their own thing going but yet go together well. The songs also tell stories that are memorable. It's among the special albums that will endure
When I was twelve, one of my friends was having girl trouble, and we sat in his computer room listening to 'I'm With You' on repeat while he worked through that difficult time. Thanks Avril.
I'm a metal head and love hardcore as well. But can appreciate what she was doing at the time and still doing now. Plus she's beautiful and sexy too haha, sorry just the truth. 😂
@@isoldyourdogtoachineserest1637 man, you gotta know that several artist don't actually write their own songs at all. Being able to write song is a sign of pure talent
I'll double down on this. She's been incredible and I couldn't stand her for the longest time. 5 years ago I listened to Let Go and my mind was blown. I've listened to the discography and, ahem, it's full of more consistent bangers than Motley Crue
@@Soldano999 And yet she’s so attractive at the same time. Avril Lavigne is equal parts a rocker chick, a cheerleader, a skater girl, and the girl next door. That’s every teenage boy’s dream.
As a woman that grew up in a very sexist religious atmosphere as a child, my dad allowing me to listen to Avril Lavigne when I was ten or eleven changed my entire world, and I felt comfortable being assertive because she was assertive and her music was assertive. Otherwise, and I honestly mean this, I may have turned out just like the rest of the environment I grew up in. She was the first “secular” artist I was given permission to listen to. And I am still one of her biggest fans today.
@@BobPaganPaganBobwhy the lol. Not everyone was free to explore or be exposed to the good shit or had access to it for that matter. Especially as a girl in a conservative setting, I imagine. Historically, most counter culture genres have been dominated by men for a reason - lots and lots of misogyny in society at the time. Thank fuck things have started to change a bit
Another good video my man. “losing grip” is a personal favourite of mine 👍🏾 It was probably intentional, but I’m surprised you didnt touch on the “she’s dead but she has been cloned” story! lol
Part of her talent is having a great voice and knowing how to use it to “sell” the song to the listener. Few other singers could make some of those lyrics work in a way that was both sincere and playful.
The fact that she is at the very least a co-writer of her songs is admirable. Fun fact: Kelly Clarkson's "Breakaway" was actually Avril and Co.'s work.
@ILikeBlackMetal Dude, You need SOME level of help in order to make it big in the music industry. You can't just play small shows and just expect to blow up over night. At the end of the day it's about the music itself and not about how it got there.
I love Avril Lavigne for her music, no matter what people have said about her. I do love her first two albums, and Goodbye Lullaby is one of my personal favourite albums from her too, I love that album so much. I know sometimes, it hasn't all been great, and I know a lot of her recent stuff has been hit and miss, but I still think she is still great and I am happy to love her music today.
Thanks for highlighting the impact Avril had on a wide swath of young women and girls. Seeing a talented musician and singer dress alternatively and carve out her own path between genres was incredibly influential.
Avril Lavigne and Good Charlotte are guilty pleasures of mine. They did a lot to introduce preteens into alternative and punk. Also she’s still a total stunner.
As a Canadian guy who grew up during the Avril & Bieber era’s, I can assure the rest of you she was a pop culture icon here for girls & teens and her songs dominated pop radio airwaves and Much Music… genuinely it was difficult to avoid her singles at school, on the bus, in restaurants, etc. she was everywhere.
@@nikoloznasaridze6328 when you look at the list of the most successful Canadian musicians & artists, you’ll understand why that’s a financial accomplishment.
I was surprised by how much I liked hearing about her history. I've never been a fan of Avril, but my sister definitely was when we were kids. I remember hearing Avril's voice come through the walls between our rooms *constantly* during our summer vacations. Sometimes it drove me crazy, but even I thought she had a couple decent songs back then, so it surprises me that she got so much hate. Now I have a better idea of how talented she was during the early 2000s, and she had a drive to succeed that I wish I would've had back then. This was a great analysis video and hearing those clips from some of her songs brought back some good memories that I completely forgot. Looks like youtube recommendations got something right today lol.
Lavigne also got such a large number of girls to buy their first guitar and start leaning to play a few years before the post guitar hero boom. I have friends that are professional musicians that can trace their journey back to buying the Avril Lavigne Squier Telecaster.
Thanks sooo much for this video! I was probably "too goth" and "too old" to be as obsessed with Avril as I was in the early 2000's (I was in my early 20's), but I absolutely loved her first two albums. The albums following "Under My Skin" weren't completely to my taste, but you were totally right about there being a few absolute bangers on all of them. I love her songs with Mod Sun and Willow Smith, and am super excited for her new pop-punk album!
I actually started tearing up at the end of this. Thank you so much. You made just about every point that I always try to make whenever people rip on Avril Lavigne in my presence. I have been absolutely ridiculed over the years for looking up to her and tbh kinda shaping my entire personality around hers. But whenever people drag her in front of me, I tell them to listen to her ALBUMS, not the singles. A lot of my favourite songs never saw the light of mainstream media. So many incredible tunes that usually, 9 times out of 10, surprise the fuck out of people when I show them. I even made my damn Ex come to respect her after listening to her full discography. I have Avril to owe for everything I grew up to be. She taught me so much. Not to take any shit, hold tight to who I am and what I want and never settle for less, and love with my heart on my sleeve. So yeah, I might be a little Avril wannabe, still, at 28, but I wouldn't have it any other way. Little Black Star (that's her fandoms name haha) for Life, man! 🖤
She's really talented and hardworking girl with a sense of humour. Always sings live and sings PERFECT. I used to be a big fan. Nowadays I'm not into being a fan of any musician but Avril still got a a huge place in my heart. And she really has that pop-punk and pop-rock vibes and she's a multiinstrumentalist.
Oh my god a year of sporadically begging you to make this video and you do it 6 months ago and I miss it… I’m embarrassed haha. But the fact that we share the same favorite Avril song was a magical moment. Another amazing video Finn!!!
I LIVED Avril Lavigne in my teens. Her music was like the girl you brought home to meet mom. Avril's music is poppy enough that your parents wouldn't mind you listening to her while you also listened to heavier quote end quote "true" punk music behind their back. I still openly jam her music from time to time. Avril is the shit. 'Nuff said.
I was late to the game too. I used to work in a store that had the radio on and she'd come on all the time and I'd groan. I felt nostalgic so I just put on her first album while I was at work and by the end of the day I had listened to almost her whole discography and was really impressed. We were missin' out
I think Avril just gets criticized more than other artists that all have the same standard when making music. Her music speaks for itself. She carries the team.
You speak the truth about this. Her music is good and she's actually no different than other artists, but yet got more looked down on for absolutely no reason. It's kinda ridiculous. But probably people are finally seeing her for who she was all along. A good artist.
damn it. I have not felt this personally attacked....I was one of those people, who, kind of liked her music, but hated her being mentioned having anything to do with punk. Of course, at the time, I was listening to NOFX a lot, not realizing the irony of "keeping punk rock elite". Well, ther great thing about being a human, is is the ability to reason, and admit just how wrong I was. Thanks again, Finn.
You ain't alone, I was the same way when I was younger and thought she was trying too hard. Then basically I grew up, cut off some toxic friendships, and stopped being an elitist asshole.
I've seen some videos of Avril talking about and demonstrating her song writing process and she's said that she really likes to involve herself in every step of the process from the lyrics, to the instrumentals to the lighting on stage to how she wants her music videos to be. She puts a lot of work into everything that she creates and everything she makes really is hers.
To her absolute credit, Avril was for 2000s teens, what Gwen Stefani was for 90s teens. She really straddled the line between pop punk, and the late 90s alt rock/pop grunge sound of Lifehouse, Switchfoot, and Goo Goo Dolls, so well that it seemed effortless. I'm With You is a top tier song, and I still listen to it regularly.
She was but unfortunately she never matured as an artist. I always comapre her to Taylor Swift because Avril was kind of the precursor to Taylor Swift: Earnest singer-songwriter teen idol who cultivated a huge following of teenage girls by writing angsty and vulnerable yet still pop-friendly songs from a young girl's perspective, then later went full glossy pop once they hit their 20s. Their career trajectories are very similar. The main difference is that unlike Taylor, Avril Lavigne never figured out how to grow with her audience or age artistically. And her image change with 2007's The Best Damn Thing, which produced her biggest pop hits and her best selling album, still came at a huge cost as it alienated most of her fans and she never fully won them back. This could have easily been Taylor Swift as well if she wasn't smart enough about how she gradually transitioned into pop stardom. But since 2011, I'd argue that Avril has been stagnant artistically. She's tried to go in a more mature direction both on 2011's Goodbye Lullaby and 2018's Head Above Water, both of which fans didn't like all that much and were critically lambasted. And now we fast-forward to 2024, Avril is an emotionally stunted 38-year-old woman who now knows that her fanbase doesn't want her to grow up and simply wants her to forever be a pastiche to what she was in the 2000s. And since her return to pop-punk with Luv Sux, she has basically been a nostalgia bait. People always accused Avril Lavigne of being inauthentic, but I'd argue that's more the case now than it was in her heyday.
@@M97-u8t you have a point. I had thought she is now pursuing the nostalgia money, but then I thought yeah I'm wrong. She clearly is sincere about enjoying her life and music what she does. Besides she literally has that song "never grow up." Maybe she just doesn't want to grow up. Well it looks to me like she's living the dream a lot of people would love. Like all the kids with a high school band but we all had to get "real jobs." But Avril actually got to stay in the band and make it a career. That's just who she is, and she learned to embrace it. Maybe her later music could've been better, but then again I've listened to some of it, and I heard some mature work. She has the music after Lyme disease you can tell she put that experience into the music. I think adults can enjoy her later music too. I think she has the best of both worlds. So I think some of this is a matter of perspective. I don't know enough about Taylor Swift to really comment or compare them. What bit I know they both seem down to earth with their fans and the public and put the music first, so I have respect for both. Maybe Taylor is developing more, I just haven't listened to her music enough to say. But they're still two different people so I feel like a direct comparison can only go so far. Taylor seems to have pursued and accomplished the superstardom. She's gotten to be like a white girl Michael Jackson or something. Maybe that wasn't in the cards for Avril but it doesn't necessarily make her music lower quality or immature exactly.
Great insight. She has always been a guilty pleasure artist for me (I’m a grunger so…integrity lol) but I now have a deeper understanding of her struggle coming up and her vision. Cheers!
Avril absoLUTELY made me feel more confident in my decision to play guitar and drums, learn to skate, speak up when I disagreed with things in class and eventually at work, and ultimately she even played a role in my feeling able to go into a male-dominated field for my first career. Was it ALL her? No. However, she made it big with Sk8er Boi when I was in the 8th grade and from that point on, watching her (even if she was just a few years older than I was at the time - it felt like a much bigger gap, then) helped me make my choices that went against the grain. Choices I'd been conditioned to make since birth. I'll always be grateful to her for that.
I think you're a bloody legend, Finn. I loved this video, and I think I'm not alone in saying that I had fallen for some of those stereotypes of her too. Grade A research, insight and delivery. Thanks heaps.
Avril is legend! She's what Billie Eilish is to 2005 kids to kids born in 1996 and what Alanis Morissette is to 80's kids. Every gen has its solo alternative chick making waves.
@@ZeroDarknezz I think it’s a pretty apt comparison. Of course not in terms of genre but in terms of those artists being in the broader category “solo alt chick making waves.” I wouldn’t be surprised if you thought Avril was cringe AF back in her day. People generally hate on the in vogue young female artist.
I'm so happy to see this video. I'm oldschool punk. Started going to shows in Seattle in 1979. Saw D.O.A., The Refuzors, The Subhumans (Canada), Black Flag, Bad Brains, The Accused with their original singer John before Blaine from The Fartz joined and they went crossover thrash, and many, many more, and the first time I heard "Ska8r Boi" I said, "This is fuckin' great!" My punk friends, to put it mildly, disagreed. As for me, I developed even more respect for Avril when I saw her live shows on RUclips and felt the passion in her performance, not to mention her great singing. I had no idea what a badass she was at 16 when she told L. A. Reid they had to change the direction and sound of her first album. Amazing. And what about her live cover of Metallica's "Fuel" for MTV icon? It was fantastic! So yes, praise Avril. She's a really cool person and one helluva performer.
Well said. I was an adult heard "sk8tr boi" and at first it might sound like yeah this is for kids, and it is, but it also at same time brought the adults back to being a kid... and if you were a skater, you were saying dude, I was that sk8ter boi in a sense lol. But seriously it's a good song because it tells a story like any good song. Anyway it was just cool to see skateboarding being featured in music videos like that and you knew she was a skater kid, so you felt like yeah she's one of us. And able to make all those variety of songs with lots of influences from pop to country storytelling fun songs emotional songs and put them together in her own unique way. I think "let go" is a darn good album just something about it grabbed me right away she was a skater kid that put out this incredible album with timeless their own thing songs and a lot of her own soul in it, all those songs together in "let go" are an evergreen listening experience
Mr. Punk Rock MBA, thank you for this extraordinary video. Informative. Original. Persuasive. Compelling. Respectful toward everyone. I am into none of the genres or scenes you discussed, but you managed to connect a lot of pieces,. making it easy for my out of touch head to understand. You have a special talent for putting together whatever kind of thing this is you did here. My hat is off.
Thank you for making this man. I always try to tell people over the years about the deeper story. Really glad to see an official and so well done video on it 💗
@@Soundwave32791agree. Never could get into "pink". Avril's work is definitely much better. She's authentic. Yeah she never claimed to be punk rock. She's mainly rock or pop with some 90s country music influences. I think anyone who listened to a wide variety of 90s music can feel it in Avril's music. Yeah I know she had her asthetic but there wasn't anything fake about it. It was actually her style. She actually was a skater.
She's always been my guilty pleasure. She's had a few songs over the years that, despite not being my style overall AT ALL, were REALLY good. She writes her own stuff, too...super talented. And she's screamin' hot. lol
All these years later, my daughter is hooked on her back catalogue as if it came out yesterday. She was 9 when she discovered her, changed her look overnight and now, at 12, still sings her songs with a belting passion and is introducing me to cool new music that would have completely passed me by. That is legacy.
Complicated was the soundtrack to my last breakup. Never did I think that I would have been relating to Avril Lavigne as a then 25 year old man as much as I did but low and behold I did.
Great take! I just found this channel and super enjoy your perspective. I saw Avril perform a medley of her hits live last night at the JUNO awards in Toronto (also caught her sound check), and basically had an epiphany - I know all the words and like the songs, despite how much I abhorred her whole gimmicky mall punk thing when she first came out. She sang her ass off too - she's a powerful vocalist and a hit songwriter and a star. I'm a late in life Avril fan, who knew?!? Haha. Looking forward to checking out more of your content.
I grew up down the road from where Avril did. I was a few years older, but her style of dress was very much what we wore in that region a few years earlier (pre,during, and post Grunge era). When I first saw her on Muchmusic, I was blown away by how local she appeared.
I actually regret hiding the fact I heard her music when I was a kid. Looking back, Avril Lavigne is the reason why Paramore and Blink 182 grew on me. Girlfriend was my jam
@@austintrousdale2397 What? You've actually heard other people/the radio play Avril Lavigne's music? I'm jealous of you lmfao. I don't even hear her music anymore as it's usually the same old boring generic bland modern mainstream Pop music from the last decade or the same old oldies that I've heard hundreds of time before. If I were you, I would be friggin' delighted to hear any of her songs played. I've had to request other people to play her music because nobody else has the imagination to give her or her music the time of day.
Besides her music, I remember being a huge fan in 2010-11-ish (I was born in '99) and absolutely loving her Bast Damn Thing era. In contrary to her iconic tomboy style, this one was very girly and focused in being cute and edgy, for example the pink-black combo with hearts and skulls. That was probably my transition from childish clothing to teenage fashion. I wanted to own those clothes so bad but that clothing was never available in my country because emo/scene never arrived here. To add, I was embarrassed to ask my mom for edgier clothes.
The same hate avril gets is the same hate Billie is getting. I hate it, Avril was my idol growing up, and I respect and enjoy Billie's music. They both broke boundaries and paved ways for new music/artist. They are probably some of the most humble authentic artist around today.
The difference is Avril is talented. Billie just whispers cringey lyrics written by her brother and uses her pretend depression as her entire identity and a selling point.
the issue is that while avril's sk8er boi and i can do better can be labeled as alt cuz it's pop punk, billie is at most alternative pop, but not alternative in the original meaning. the reason why avril could top charts in the first place was because the hits were very diversed and ranged from destiny's child and xtina to linkin park and kittie. billie's popularity started off at a time where MAINSTREAM (and i'd like to put the stress on that) music lacks diversity in genre and broadness in vocabulary and melody. i get that avril from 2002 and billie from the mid 10s may have a similar tomboyish aesthetic, but the comparisons are not entirely accurate
I became a fan of hers back in August 2002, I was 12 and my primary caregiver had died. She was the first (and only) person/band I've been a die-hard fan of. Being her fan is the reason why I speak English today. Even though I stopped being a fan in 2006, being her fan definitely helped me go through some stuff and eventually find more artists that I still like to this day.
I love Avril Lavigne. She writes her music (even if it's with a co-writer), self taught on the guitar, does her own makeup and is proud to be Canadian. Just remember that without Avril we wouldn't have Billie eilish and Olivia Rodrigo.
It's interesting to compare Avril's career to that of Alanis Morissette. Alanis actually did comply with the system and record two pop albums before making Jagged little pill and transitioning to rock. And yet, her rock debut was considered "legit". The only difference I can come up with was the perceived maturity. Morissette started with You Oughta Know, an angry anthem of a woman scorned. Lavigne debuted with a song about a boy, while showing an edgy teenage girl aesthetics. And I believe one thing rockers disregard more than women in rock is girls in rock. We as a society really hate what teenage girls like. And the rock scene is even worse than the rest of the society.
And I believe one thing rockers disregard more than women in rock is girls in rock" True. I always felt that Stevie Nicks or Joni Mitchell don't get the respect they deserve. Alanis was considered bold for songs like You Oughta Know back in 95, but also remember that this was before the pop machinery assault of the early 2000s.
Idk. I like female artists & musicians. I like their brattiness, fearlessness, & angst. Breaking norms and all that jazz. Gonna create a fake date account for my fiance and make him look extra special to salute. 👊 sincerely, the influenced 🤗." Guhl powah "✌
Agreed. I lived Alanis also. I've always loved female musicians and respected their work. That's why Avril Lavigne, I found people that really just love music liked her. The people that were caught up in superficial nonsense maybe didn't or looked down on her. I never did. My male friends we all listened to all kinds of music some of us had played in our garage bands and skateboarders, some listened to punk or metal or whatever. But it was actually those guys who turned me on to Avril Lavigne. I was a grown a@s adult in mid 20s by then. And I heard "let go" and didn't even think oh she's just a kid or something but I thought how does she make such incredible music at that age? That album just blew me away we had some of the best time of our lives listening to it and it sounds as fresh today as it did then which I think is the real genius of it.
Yeah, I feel people who vocally don't like her have heard Sk8er Boi and Girlfriend and none of her other stuff. I still really enjoy what she put out on her 2nd album, it just gets no attention.
Awesome video, Finn! I've been loving these "Misunderstood Genius" videos, and thanks for letting me know about her new album coming up. I had no idea she was putting out a new album soon, and I'm a huge fan of her's. Awesome work man, love the content!
I think I had a similar experience to a lot of people here. In the 2000's when I was in middle school I didn't really consider it an option to like Avril. I dismissed her as girly/poppy/uncool. Now as an adult I have gone back and am not ashamed to say I love a lot of her songs. I wish I had had more confidence as a kid to just listen to whatever sounded good.
I was 13 in 2003 and used my chore money to buy her first album "for my sister" but really I wanted to listen to it and check out the CD booklet. She was my second crush after Mary-Kate and Ashley haha.
Similar story, I'm a couple years younger than you but still I had a very elitist attitude during my early teens and hated her. Then basically i grew up and was like "y'know she's kinda cool"
I will agree, she has some major bangers over the years. Only bad thing I've really heard, and I repeat "heard", is her fan interaction. But not everyone can be like Andrew W.K. Avril is a great vocalist, which is something no one can take from her. She put the work and effort majority of the population doesn't, which is very respectable. Great video, hope you all are doing well.
She's generally nice to fans.I think that was a one off.She's really nice to fans.Met her in 2019.Was cool. And those pictures with fans were photoshopped as well.
People hate Avril? What? I'm a 32 year old guy so was about 12 when she was new. In junior high I openly said I loved her, and so did some of my jock friends. I've never heard anyone talk shit about her back then or now.
Yeah same our guy group liked Avril. Other guys are the ones introduced me to her music. I hadn't heard of it but I liked it right away. I remember first time heard "let go," my buddy was blasting it in his pickup truck we were doing donuts in a mud field having a blast. We didn't gaf what people thought not even back in high school.
You made some good points with the industry plant issue in that her come-up wasn’t through the laborious DIY hustle scene. However, I would argue that she wasn’t because like you said the sound and aesthetic came from her and not the label. She’s just very lucky in a way that she was in a good position to be marketed: Young white pleasant looking-female that can write, sing and perform, and sell the anti-thesis of the late 90s/2000s bubblegum pop that Britney-Xtina Aguilera-Jessica Simpson-Mandy Moore dominated. In a way, that was a brilliant branding and marketing strategy on her part to breakout. Hence, no to being an industry 🪴.
I remember getting Under My Skin as a kid and loving it! All my friends didn't like Avril but I didn't care 😂 Great video, Finn! Another interesting topic for you to cover would be Kittie. My best friend and I were the only ones who listened to them. Everybody else in our friend group wrote them off as girls trying too hard. I listened to Brackish the other day and it was just as good as I remember 👍🏻
Canada really promotes the performing arts. For as small as the population is, look at how many singers, musicians, actors and comedians are from Canada.
As a late millennial (born in '94) you spoke to my soul with this video. Can you make more videos that touch that era of early '00s and the effect they had on us, kids and young teens? My generation literally got into the alternative/dark scene by these artists that were huge at the time, linkin park, system of a down, green day, avril lavigne, evanescence, and I remember that "true" metalheads/goths/punks etc were mocking them. To us though, they were the bridge that brought us to this scene only to discover more and more😁
Yeah she never sold out. She wore what she was comfortable in skater clothes and did her thing and put the music first. And she didn't put up with their crap either
With the exception of lyrics that rhyme a word with itself, Avril's music is catchy as hell. You can't really criticize it from a mainstream pop or alternative perspective.
I was 19 when Avril Lavigne broke big and was knee deep in hardcore (especially ebullition, level-plane, robotic empire, gravity, gold standard labs, etc underground "screamo" type stuff). Being that into DIY hardcore, I wasn't watching MTV and hardly ever listened to the radio. I think I heard the first three Avril Lavigne singles (how could you avoid them?) and couldn't have given a damn about the punk influence. I knew it wasn't "real" punk, whatever that is, but was past the point in my life where I was insecure enough to care. I feel like every fan of a genre which is very tribal/"underground"/community based eventually reached a turning point they realize that "fake" versions of what they are into, or younger people who are "posers" are some of the least important things in the entire world.
AVRIL LAVIGNE ROCKS . Why would anyone hate her ? I just seen her in concert on July the 9th right after my birthday July the 8th . I will always love Avril no matter what anyone says
I’m a huge fan of the channel…I’ve watched almost every video now. I first came across Finn from his video on Straight Edge which is my background. The thing I love about a video like this is that it helps tear down the stupid preconceived notions and criticism I had of someone like Avril, Korn, slipknot or other groups that I swore that I would never listen to. I have a lot more respect for these artist now that I’ve watched Finn’s videos on them and have to admit that my stupid “superiority issues” as a big fan of The Refused and 90s straight edge put me into a box. I still love those bands but I’ve actually discovered a ton of new music from this channel and it has helped me to be a more rounded musician and appreciator of music.
No matter what anyone thinks of Avril for me, as a guitar teacher, Avril was great in the 2000's. So many young students came to me wanting to learn her tunes. For a lot of my students Avril was the first music they ever played on guitar. To see a young kid walking out of the studio I teach out of feeling empowered because they can play the music they love, well... Nothing will ever beat that feeling, so it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks of her music. She inspired an entire generation. That's important, and I got to watch that happen in real time.
I was one of those girls. Nobody's Home was one of the first songs I learned how to play on the guitar. I also loved to play songs like Complicated, I'm With You, Naked, Things I'll Never Say, My Happy Ending... Oh, Runaway is so fun to play, those verse chords!
wow... that was great see this comment. I'm from Brazil and my first tune was the entire Let Go album hahaha. I asked for a teacher and it was a great time for both of us and I have never forget every song since then.
So I can say that Avril brought me to music. She is great, a little naeve, but really tallent.
Ah that feeling is so great! It's so awesome to watch people get so invested in the instrument and really make it their own. You know they will keep playing for years when they catch the bug!
@@akuma862005 it's why I'm still doing this, despite all the frustrations of the job and the hectic nature of being self-employed.
@@lincolnzeferino8287 🇧🇷 that's why I love her, she is unique. And I don't hate her, or her songs, I still play, sing along and learn the new ones, I remember when me and my kids first listen to her, after knowing all the songs she wrote for another singers, my respect to her just grown.
I stagehanded a small festival that Avril headlined in the early aughts. There were rumblings all day that she was super sick and going to cancel. When it was time for her set to start, she had to be carried to the side of the stage, puked in the trash can next to the stairs. Then she hauled herself up onto the stage and performed her guts out for an hour before saying goodnight, walking off stage, and basically collapsing. None of the middle schoolers that looked up to her and came out to see her would have had any idea.
Her music's still not my thing, but that's seriously bad ass and I've had total respect for her since then.
Super drunk*
I can respect that. I think almost any musician should be able to do that, I've done it a few times myself especially if it's paid work.
Around 2010, she was set to do an outdoor show in Burnaby BC to open a new Best Buy. Before the show started, it started to snow heavily. She did the whole show in a snowstorm and the crowd loved it. There's footage online I think.
Avril, Paramore, Evanescence got me through high school and college so I really gave credit to all of these artist or bands for going through one of my toughest part of my life.
The fact that she made Hello Kitty as obnoxious as it is and still be a banger is mind blowing to me.
There aren't many people who can pull it off
There are some saying it's in their "songs to play when the homies aren't around" playlist.
Hello Kitty belongs in the "Songs to play when the homies ARE around" list, cuz the true homies are those who stay
The "obnoxious" sound of Hello Kitty was because it was marketed for Japanese audiences. If you are unfamiliar with Japanese music they do sound like that, with a funny, stupid, and unserious lyrics.
Idc what anyone thinks- I would’ve never gotten into goth, punk, metal and grunge music if it wasn’t for Avril. For me she was the first alternative artist I ever listen to. if it wasn’t for this I don’t think I would’ve ever found my corner of a community and would’ve been forever damned to feel like an outsider. I know that when she came out with the last 2-3 albums people were saying she was being replaced by a lookalike or some other outlandish thing but I never thought that the community hated her?
Weird how people called her fake punk cuz I don't remember Avril ever claiming she was a punk rocker.
Probably because she isn’t punk, Avril herself said that she hated being called punk because her music isn’t punk and yet we have all kinds of posers calling Avril punk
It’s more her fans, like even if this video Finn say she deserves apart of the pop punk Mt Rushmore. I don’t hate her music at all but it’s weird that so many people claim she’s pop punk when she really isn’t.
Well she did make use of a (skate) punk image with her attire etc. and Sk8ter Boi is a pop-punk song
It's her fanbase calling her Punk, not Avril
Never considered her punk.Guano Apes is like 10 times more punk and they doesn't even considered a punk band.
Industry plant or not, let's not front. TATU slapped.
I listen to tatu at least once a month to this day.
Wasn't TATU that Russian fake lesbian eurovision duo?
Too bad one of them's grown to become a villain.
laowhy watches finn?!!!
@@bennymountain1 Yeah it honestly sucks. She was the main singer too. On the other hand tatu as a whole is so "problematic" that you kinda have to just put all that shit aside haha.
Her song "Innocence" is one of only a couple dozen songs that I've ever heard that have made me cry.
"Only a couple dozen." Only? I doubt most people have ever cried to one song, let alone two dozen from a dude.
@@retsamcm huh I guess I thought more people were like me or more emotional haha. And it’s not like this group of songs *always* makes me cry every single time I listen to them; sometimes it’ll just be a one time thing, where the song triggers an emotional response to something else already going on in my life, like a breakup or the death of a loved one.
IT'S SO BEAUTIFUL IT MAKES YOU WANNA CRY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IT MAKES YOU WANNA CRRYYYYYYYYYYY !!!!!!!!!
@@andyspendlove1019 Ignore them, they just dislike avril lavigne
dude same. its a gem of a song
I don't know how much credit she gets for "I'm with you," but it's a song I'm not embarrassed to admit I like. I just enjoy the sound and mood.
Yeah that's a great song. It's hard to believe she was so young when she recorded that.
@@Matt92Machine Makes you feel old, doesn't it?
Her best ballad to this day
@@Jarbas.Travels I'm With You is great, but I think Remember When, Let Me Go and some songs from her Head Above Water album are even better.
She also wrote some great unreleased ballads, like her version for BreakAway (supposed to be featured in her first record), Won't Let You Go (from her 2007 album, written by her and Diane Warren), If I Said I Love You (from her self-titled album), Lights Out and Lucky Ones (2019).
IDK, she's so good at writing ballads.
I’m With You is a masterpiece
I really love this video! It strikes a chord with me because I feel defensive toward young folks with talent who get dissed and women with talent who get dissed, and I also love cheering for people who share my nationality who find success outside of Canada.
I’m sharing this with a friend who was a big Avril fan about 14 years ago.
Finn, I can feel how much you believe every word you say in this vid. I can tell you respect her hustle and how good it feels to be making that argument. Just wanna validate your approach (and fancy looking new camera set up) and say it's noticeable and cool. I have had the same experience in the country music world, watching artists that seemed like such gimmicks eventually gain the respect of the whole intelligentsia, self included, and prove that they did have a vision for their careers. That has definitely has gotten me to approach new acts with a more curious mind than I used to.
Thank you, means a lot coming from you!
Oh man! I love your channel bruh! The clap track video got me to sub
It brings a smile to my face to see content creators supporting each other. Finn might not do a lot of vids on country but what he has to say is applicable to the music industry across the board. So happy that other content creators that cover music also watch Finn's channel.
Apparently Billie Eillish idolises Avril.
Please collab in a punk and metal meets country *cof* social distortion *cof*
During my battle jacket punk teen years I used to stand up for Avril Lavigne if anyone talked shit. Her songs are so fun and catchy. People always thought I was bullshitting them and were perplexed that, nah, you can be a crusty, grindy punk and still have hella fun listening to a banger Avril song. Great video dude.
I had two separate friends from different schools who were super judgy abt her and my being an earnest fan. definitely just following a lame trend (sk8ter boi wasn't great, but I could listen to the rest of the album from beginning to end)
I was “that skater boi” and just gotta say thanks Avril . Being shy was no longer a problem.
Her songs tell stories that's what makes them good. They're not just oo rra rah a la la or just catchy pop tune with typical lyrics. Her songs actually tell clear story people can actually see themselves in
as a die-hard metal lover, I personally really love Avril music, she's a really talented musician, her songs like innocence, when you're gone, the best damn thing, my happy ending, don't tell me, complicated are a few of my jam songs by her beside extreme metal and hardcore punk
Losing grip?? Take me away? To me it was her first and 2nd album, the rest didnt click much
@@min1549
I stopped listening after her second album too. It was interesting though... Just the other day for Thanksgiving, my brother pulled out Tim Burton’s Alice in Wonderland because I’ve never seen it. The credits start rolling and after a few quick seconds of them he stopped playing the DVD. But it only took me those short few seconds to recognize that voice!
It took me about 30 seconds to put my finger precisely on her name. I have the personality type where I will stop everything and look something up if I think of a question that the internet can easily answer, to appease my curiosity, so as soon as I asked out loud “was that Avril Lavigne?” (and my brother had no clue because that was never his type of music), I looked it up and confirmed it. The song name was Alice, ofc.
Just from the little I heard, it sounded great! Definitely made me want to give it a listen in full - it sounded like a very full and mature song, with an orchestra and all, iirc. My brother was impressed that I nailed the artist’s name so fast - which he shouldn’t be surprised because I worked in the music industry for a while due to how passionate I was for music.
I remember working in it at the time Avril popped out of nowhere (she wasn’t on the label I was working for at the time), and seeing a young co-worker of mine begin wearing the ties all the time lol. She went full on poser with the punk-like outfits, and I say poser because she never listened to anything punk. It was a little cringe tbh.
She worked in the art department with me, and liked to design her own cards to give to others for their birthday, or to thank them or congratulate them etc... They were cute and thoughtful, but it was funny also because she began incorporating super similar graphics to what one would see in Avril’s branding and promotional artwork etc. You know, things like a skull and cross bones with a pink hair bow on the skull - stuff like that.
Yep, deathcore and metalcore lover here - and Avril Lavigne will always have a special place in my playlist. Take Me Away, My Happy Ending and Together - practically the second album remains a killer album to me.
Same here, man. TOTALLY not my style overal, but she has a few songs that are REALLY good.
I could not agree more. I'm a 64-year-old male metal-head who has been to a thousand metal concerts. Avril rocks. It's not even debatable. That is one talented woman. Her style of music may not be heavy metal, but her attitude sure is.
Love that this video gives Avril Lavigne all of the credit, props, and respect she deserves, especially as a young female artist who's had the courage and vision to do what she did at her age. Great video and spot on.
Being a millennial who was about 11-12 in the early 2000's the past two videos you have done have hit hard! Both Hybrid Theory and Let Go were huge in bringing me into my addiction which is music
“Head above water” is a master piece and I might play this song at my wedding (our couples dance) a couple weeks from now because I have Lyme disease as well. I play this song whenever I need motivation to continue on with life...
That song is beautiful, along with the rest of the songs, on that album. One of my favorite albums that I consider to part of "new Avril".
She definitely kept making great music all these years she's consistently done a lot of good work all through her career
Well put. Her track with Mod Sun has had me delving a bit deeper into her work lately. I remember when Skater Boi was all over mtv2 and genuinely liking the track. Even though she was obviously more a pop artist than part of the rock world back then i think over time she has come to be regarded as a credible artist and one of the more significant ones to bridge that gap.
I LOVE her song 'Flames' with Modsun! I've been rocking out to it lately! It's a banger!
I'd say she was a bit of both a pop singer and rockstar. Her second album was definitely more rock than anything. It's mostly alternative rock, grunge, nu metal, punk rock, and post-grunge.
Still waiting for the day she makes another heavier alternative album.
@@zacharyengle4256 exactly, she's a pop/rock artist mainly but her impact is in her pop/punk songs and her attitude
Losing grip was one of her best songs and it was a heavy opener for her first album
It was her favorite song on the album, she said it represented her and the band the most aside from more popular songs like ‘Complicated’.
The songs on "let go" each have their own thing going but yet go together well. The songs also tell stories that are memorable. It's among the special albums that will endure
When her first album came out, she reminded me a lot of Pat Benatar. "Losing Grip" was very much like a Pat Benatar song. It was gritty.
I love that I can come to your channel for SPAZZ content and also get a friendly take on AVRIL lAVIGNE and scene kids.
When I was twelve, one of my friends was having girl trouble, and we sat in his computer room listening to 'I'm With You' on repeat while he worked through that difficult time. Thanks Avril.
the fact that she wrote all her songs was a proof of a genuine talent. and the thumbnail pic of her is so beautiful😍
She admitted to being given "poppy" songs that didnt feel like her. She was like "I can write"
Co-writer.
@@Queueddd she write her own song, also she produces too. U can check on her 4th album Goodbye Lullaby
I'm a metal head and love hardcore as well. But can appreciate what she was doing at the time and still doing now. Plus she's beautiful and sexy too haha, sorry just the truth. 😂
@@isoldyourdogtoachineserest1637 man, you gotta know that several artist don't actually write their own songs at all. Being able to write song is a sign of pure talent
I'll double down on this. She's been incredible and I couldn't stand her for the longest time. 5 years ago I listened to Let Go and my mind was blown. I've listened to the discography and, ahem, it's full of more consistent bangers than Motley Crue
I agree. She is heavier than MC too.
Yeah same i recently started listening with my daughter and i was actually blown away. Her ratio of absolute hits per album is impressive.
Avril is classier than them as well...
@@henrydrummond5902 yeah she's the only pop star who didn't feel she had to be vulgar or dance like a stripper to sell records
@@Soldano999 And yet she’s so attractive at the same time. Avril Lavigne is equal parts a rocker chick, a cheerleader, a skater girl, and the girl next door. That’s every teenage boy’s dream.
As a woman that grew up in a very sexist religious atmosphere as a child, my dad allowing me to listen to Avril Lavigne when I was ten or eleven changed my entire world, and I felt comfortable being assertive because she was assertive and her music was assertive. Otherwise, and I honestly mean this, I may have turned out just like the rest of the environment I grew up in. She was the first “secular” artist I was given permission to listen to. And I am still one of her biggest fans today.
@@BobPaganPaganBobwhy the lol. Not everyone was free to explore or be exposed to the good shit or had access to it for that matter. Especially as a girl in a conservative setting, I imagine. Historically, most counter culture genres have been dominated by men for a reason - lots and lots of misogyny in society at the time. Thank fuck things have started to change a bit
Dude I swear, your videos are so holistic and looking-at-all-the-sites of something. It really is high quality content.
Another good video my man. “losing grip” is a personal favourite of mine 👍🏾
It was probably intentional, but I’m surprised you didnt touch on the “she’s dead but she has been cloned” story! lol
Yes that was intentional
@BasketCase420 Agreed, I definitely miss her grunge-nu metal songs like Losing Grip, Take Me Away, Together, Forgotten, and How Does It Feel.
Finn just hitting all my preteen defining artists
You're built like a preteen.
Hey I know!👍
Nice to see you here!!!
Hey its Amanda
Bro, I don't care who knows it, as a 13 year old male, I loved the album Let Go. I still love that album.
This is a great deep dive into something that has such widespread opinions. Great video Finn!
I wish more labels listened to the artists themselves.
honestly Avril was carrying y2k fashion
You totally forgot to mention "I'm with you" and "losing grip". Those are the best from her imo
Part of her talent is having a great voice and knowing how to use it to “sell” the song to the listener. Few other singers could make some of those lyrics work in a way that was both sincere and playful.
The fact that she is at the very least a co-writer of her songs is admirable. Fun fact: Kelly Clarkson's "Breakaway" was actually Avril and Co.'s work.
@ILikeBlackMetal Maybe the joke goes over my head, but "van Gogh" succeeding?
@ILikeBlackMetal Dude, You need SOME level of help in order to make it big in the music industry. You can't just play small shows and just expect to blow up over night. At the end of the day it's about the music itself and not about how it got there.
@IsNotAPhase u just hate avril lavigne
@IDon'tGetIt😐 Both Poe and Van Gogh died broke and didn't achieve massive fame until years later
@IDon'tGetIt😐 Van Gogh was poor and lived with his brother. If his brother hadn't provided for him, he wouldn't have been able to paint.
thank you very much for the video
Here in Brazil we love her a lot
I follow her since 2002
I love this woman
I love Avril Lavigne for her music, no matter what people have said about her. I do love her first two albums, and Goodbye Lullaby is one of my personal favourite albums from her too, I love that album so much. I know sometimes, it hasn't all been great, and I know a lot of her recent stuff has been hit and miss, but I still think she is still great and I am happy to love her music today.
Thanks for highlighting the impact Avril had on a wide swath of young women and girls. Seeing a talented musician and singer dress alternatively and carve out her own path between genres was incredibly influential.
I'm so glad Mod Sun is a huge fan of this channel, so I know Avril will more than likely see this amazing video about her
Avril Lavigne and Good Charlotte are guilty pleasures of mine. They did a lot to introduce preteens into alternative and punk. Also she’s still a total stunner.
Agreed, I know they both got me into punk/pop punk and still a big fan of hers and them
Dude omg I tell people all the time that I first got into pop punk from Avril and Good Charlotte on the radio!
@@TheJrockfreak SAMEEE
@@davidrivera6017 awesome
"I'm with you" has always been a personal favorite of mine.
As a Canadian guy who grew up during the Avril & Bieber era’s, I can assure the rest of you she was a pop culture icon here for girls & teens and her songs dominated pop radio airwaves and Much Music… genuinely it was difficult to avoid her singles at school, on the bus, in restaurants, etc. she was everywhere.
Ahahhaha I remember that
Feels so bad to see Avril's name mentioned near Bieber
@@nikoloznasaridze6328 when you look at the list of the most successful Canadian musicians & artists, you’ll understand why that’s a financial accomplishment.
Justin Bieber is a ferry boy lol.dont disrespect Avril like that.
@@scottmars3191 my brother in Christ, how have you made it this far in life without knowing how to spell ‘Fairy’
I was surprised by how much I liked hearing about her history. I've never been a fan of Avril, but my sister definitely was when we were kids. I remember hearing Avril's voice come through the walls between our rooms *constantly* during our summer vacations. Sometimes it drove me crazy, but even I thought she had a couple decent songs back then, so it surprises me that she got so much hate.
Now I have a better idea of how talented she was during the early 2000s, and she had a drive to succeed that I wish I would've had back then. This was a great analysis video and hearing those clips from some of her songs brought back some good memories that I completely forgot. Looks like youtube recommendations got something right today lol.
Lavigne also got such a large number of girls to buy their first guitar and start leaning to play a few years before the post guitar hero boom. I have friends that are professional musicians that can trace their journey back to buying the Avril Lavigne Squier Telecaster.
Thanks sooo much for this video! I was probably "too goth" and "too old" to be as obsessed with Avril as I was in the early 2000's (I was in my early 20's), but I absolutely loved her first two albums. The albums following "Under My Skin" weren't completely to my taste, but you were totally right about there being a few absolute bangers on all of them. I love her songs with Mod Sun and Willow Smith, and am super excited for her new pop-punk album!
I actually started tearing up at the end of this. Thank you so much. You made just about every point that I always try to make whenever people rip on Avril Lavigne in my presence.
I have been absolutely ridiculed over the years for looking up to her and tbh kinda shaping my entire personality around hers. But whenever people drag her in front of me, I tell them to listen to her ALBUMS, not the singles. A lot of my favourite songs never saw the light of mainstream media. So many incredible tunes that usually, 9 times out of 10, surprise the fuck out of people when I show them. I even made my damn Ex come to respect her after listening to her full discography.
I have Avril to owe for everything I grew up to be. She taught me so much. Not to take any shit, hold tight to who I am and what I want and never settle for less, and love with my heart on my sleeve.
So yeah, I might be a little Avril wannabe, still, at 28, but I wouldn't have it any other way. Little Black Star (that's her fandoms name haha) for Life, man! 🖤
She's really talented and hardworking girl with a sense of humour. Always sings live and sings PERFECT. I used to be a big fan. Nowadays I'm not into being a fan of any musician but Avril still got a a huge place in my heart. And she really has that pop-punk and pop-rock vibes and she's a multiinstrumentalist.
Oh my god a year of sporadically begging you to make this video and you do it 6 months ago and I miss it… I’m embarrassed haha. But the fact that we share the same favorite Avril song was a magical moment. Another amazing video Finn!!!
I LIVED Avril Lavigne in my teens. Her music was like the girl you brought home to meet mom. Avril's music is poppy enough that your parents wouldn't mind you listening to her while you also listened to heavier quote end quote "true" punk music behind their back. I still openly jam her music from time to time. Avril is the shit. 'Nuff said.
I finally started digging into her music last year and now she's one of my fav artists.
I was late to the game too. I used to work in a store that had the radio on and she'd come on all the time and I'd groan. I felt nostalgic so I just put on her first album while I was at work and by the end of the day I had listened to almost her whole discography and was really impressed. We were missin' out
@@brittisloveShe has some recent bangers too. Check out her cover of Hello and Bite me
I think Avril just gets criticized more than other artists that all have the same standard when making music.
Her music speaks for itself. She carries the team.
You speak the truth about this. Her music is good and she's actually no different than other artists, but yet got more looked down on for absolutely no reason. It's kinda ridiculous. But probably people are finally seeing her for who she was all along. A good artist.
damn it. I have not felt this personally attacked....I was one of those people, who, kind of liked her music, but hated her being mentioned having anything to do with punk. Of course, at the time, I was listening to NOFX a lot, not realizing the irony of "keeping punk rock elite". Well, ther great thing about being a human, is is the ability to reason, and admit just how wrong I was. Thanks again, Finn.
You ain't alone, I was the same way when I was younger and thought she was trying too hard. Then basically I grew up, cut off some toxic friendships, and stopped being an elitist asshole.
I've seen some videos of Avril talking about and demonstrating her song writing process and she's said that she really likes to involve herself in every step of the process from the lyrics, to the instrumentals to the lighting on stage to how she wants her music videos to be. She puts a lot of work into everything that she creates and everything she makes really is hers.
Well said.
Since Mod sun watches this channel and he's dating Avril, there is a good chance that he's gonna show her this video
WHAAAAA?!?@?@?!?@? Mod Sun is really dating her, man🤨 idk just...just wow, I honestly dont know how else to verbalize my confusion beyond this
She dates many men apparently
@@Cilliebeach okay, and?
Hey at least she's not with the lead "singer" of Nicklecrap anymore lmao
@@Cilliebeach Funny fact, one of her recent songs has a video about this 🖤🧡
To her absolute credit, Avril was for 2000s teens, what Gwen Stefani was for 90s teens. She really straddled the line between pop punk, and the late 90s alt rock/pop grunge sound of Lifehouse, Switchfoot, and Goo Goo Dolls, so well that it seemed effortless.
I'm With You is a top tier song, and I still listen to it regularly.
She was but unfortunately she never matured as an artist. I always comapre her to Taylor Swift because Avril was kind of the precursor to Taylor Swift: Earnest singer-songwriter teen idol who cultivated a huge following of teenage girls by writing angsty and vulnerable yet still pop-friendly songs from a young girl's perspective, then later went full glossy pop once they hit their 20s. Their career trajectories are very similar.
The main difference is that unlike Taylor, Avril Lavigne never figured out how to grow with her audience or age artistically. And her image change with 2007's The Best Damn Thing, which produced her biggest pop hits and her best selling album, still came at a huge cost as it alienated most of her fans and she never fully won them back. This could have easily been Taylor Swift as well if she wasn't smart enough about how she gradually transitioned into pop stardom. But since 2011, I'd argue that Avril has been stagnant artistically. She's tried to go in a more mature direction both on 2011's Goodbye Lullaby and 2018's Head Above Water, both of which fans didn't like all that much and were critically lambasted. And now we fast-forward to 2024, Avril is an emotionally stunted 38-year-old woman who now knows that her fanbase doesn't want her to grow up and simply wants her to forever be a pastiche to what she was in the 2000s. And since her return to pop-punk with Luv Sux, she has basically been a nostalgia bait.
People always accused Avril Lavigne of being inauthentic, but I'd argue that's more the case now than it was in her heyday.
@@M97-u8t you have a point. I had thought she is now pursuing the nostalgia money, but then I thought yeah I'm wrong. She clearly is sincere about enjoying her life and music what she does. Besides she literally has that song "never grow up." Maybe she just doesn't want to grow up. Well it looks to me like she's living the dream a lot of people would love. Like all the kids with a high school band but we all had to get "real jobs." But Avril actually got to stay in the band and make it a career. That's just who she is, and she learned to embrace it. Maybe her later music could've been better, but then again I've listened to some of it, and I heard some mature work. She has the music after Lyme disease you can tell she put that experience into the music. I think adults can enjoy her later music too. I think she has the best of both worlds. So I think some of this is a matter of perspective. I don't know enough about Taylor Swift to really comment or compare them. What bit I know they both seem down to earth with their fans and the public and put the music first, so I have respect for both. Maybe Taylor is developing more, I just haven't listened to her music enough to say. But they're still two different people so I feel like a direct comparison can only go so far. Taylor seems to have pursued and accomplished the superstardom. She's gotten to be like a white girl Michael Jackson or something. Maybe that wasn't in the cards for Avril but it doesn't necessarily make her music lower quality or immature exactly.
Great insight. She has always been a guilty pleasure artist for me (I’m a grunger so…integrity lol) but I now have a deeper understanding of her struggle coming up and her vision. Cheers!
Avril absoLUTELY made me feel more confident in my decision to play guitar and drums, learn to skate, speak up when I disagreed with things in class and eventually at work, and ultimately she even played a role in my feeling able to go into a male-dominated field for my first career. Was it ALL her? No. However, she made it big with Sk8er Boi when I was in the 8th grade and from that point on, watching her (even if she was just a few years older than I was at the time - it felt like a much bigger gap, then) helped me make my choices that went against the grain. Choices I'd been conditioned to make since birth. I'll always be grateful to her for that.
I think you're a bloody legend, Finn. I loved this video, and I think I'm not alone in saying that I had fallen for some of those stereotypes of her too.
Grade A research, insight and delivery.
Thanks heaps.
I never grew up with Avril Lavigne, but she’s freaking awesome and talented.
Avril is legend! She's what Billie Eilish is to 2005 kids to kids born in 1996 and what Alanis Morissette is to 80's kids. Every gen has its solo alternative chick making waves.
Wtf that's the worst comparison ever. As you say, Avril is legend but Billie is cringe AF, and they're not even on the same genre.
@@ZeroDarknezz congrats, you missed the point
@@ZeroDarknezz I think it’s a pretty apt comparison. Of course not in terms of genre but in terms of those artists being in the broader category “solo alt chick making waves.”
I wouldn’t be surprised if you thought Avril was cringe AF back in her day. People generally hate on the in vogue young female artist.
@@ZeroDarknezz 😂😂😂
Run
Perhaps you can still get the point
Avril was 5th grade me's First crush. Still a fan of her music to this day and I have no issue admitting this.
I'm so happy to see this video. I'm oldschool punk. Started going to shows in Seattle in 1979. Saw D.O.A., The Refuzors, The Subhumans (Canada), Black Flag, Bad Brains, The Accused with their original singer John before Blaine from The Fartz joined and they went crossover thrash, and many, many more, and the first time I heard "Ska8r Boi" I said, "This is fuckin' great!" My punk friends, to put it mildly, disagreed. As for me, I developed even more respect for Avril when I saw her live shows on RUclips and felt the passion in her performance, not to mention her great singing. I had no idea what a badass she was at 16 when she told L. A. Reid they had to change the direction and sound of her first album. Amazing. And what about her live cover of Metallica's "Fuel" for MTV icon? It was fantastic! So yes, praise Avril. She's a really cool person and one helluva performer.
Well said. I was an adult heard "sk8tr boi" and at first it might sound like yeah this is for kids, and it is, but it also at same time brought the adults back to being a kid... and if you were a skater, you were saying dude, I was that sk8ter boi in a sense lol. But seriously it's a good song because it tells a story like any good song. Anyway it was just cool to see skateboarding being featured in music videos like that and you knew she was a skater kid, so you felt like yeah she's one of us. And able to make all those variety of songs with lots of influences from pop to country storytelling fun songs emotional songs and put them together in her own unique way. I think "let go" is a darn good album just something about it grabbed me right away she was a skater kid that put out this incredible album with timeless their own thing songs and a lot of her own soul in it, all those songs together in "let go" are an evergreen listening experience
Mr. Punk Rock MBA, thank you for this extraordinary video. Informative. Original. Persuasive. Compelling. Respectful toward everyone. I am into none of the genres or scenes you discussed, but you managed to connect a lot of pieces,. making it easy for my out of touch head to understand. You have a special talent for putting together whatever kind of thing this is you did here. My hat is off.
Thank you for making this man. I always try to tell people over the years about the deeper story. Really glad to see an official and so well done video on it 💗
I never thought of her being a pop punk artist i always viewed her as a pop artist with punk aesthetic like Pink
She had some punk songs "i dont have to try"
@maigy99xx67 Ummmm no, you're being immature and irrational. I find Pink to be overrated and obnxoious, Avril Lavigne is definitely better.
@@Soundwave32791agree. Never could get into "pink". Avril's work is definitely much better. She's authentic. Yeah she never claimed to be punk rock. She's mainly rock or pop with some 90s country music influences. I think anyone who listened to a wide variety of 90s music can feel it in Avril's music. Yeah I know she had her asthetic but there wasn't anything fake about it. It was actually her style. She actually was a skater.
I remember in 2006 when the top two videos on RUclips were The Evolution of Dance, and Avril Lavigne's Girlfriend.
I loved Avril Lavigne's music since Complicated and I'm dude. Even those new songs she's in are good. I got nothing but mad respect for her.
Am dude as well
Great vídeo, thanks! As someone who grew as a Rocker around a Lot of people, admiting that i listened to avril lavigne was always troublesome.
She's always been my guilty pleasure. She's had a few songs over the years that, despite not being my style overall AT ALL, were REALLY good. She writes her own stuff, too...super talented. And she's screamin' hot. lol
I remember that even my older brother, who isn't interested in Rock music at all, had a crush on her back in 2002.
All these years later, my daughter is hooked on her back catalogue as if it came out yesterday. She was 9 when she discovered her, changed her look overnight and now, at 12, still sings her songs with a belting passion and is introducing me to cool new music that would have completely passed me by. That is legacy.
That's so wholesome. We need more like this
Complicated was the soundtrack to my last breakup. Never did I think that I would have been relating to Avril Lavigne as a then 25 year old man as much as I did but low and behold I did.
Good job writing and organizing your synopsis’s finn. Great job.
Great take! I just found this channel and super enjoy your perspective. I saw Avril perform a medley of her hits live last night at the JUNO awards in Toronto (also caught her sound check), and basically had an epiphany - I know all the words and like the songs, despite how much I abhorred her whole gimmicky mall punk thing when she first came out. She sang her ass off too - she's a powerful vocalist and a hit songwriter and a star. I'm a late in life Avril fan, who knew?!? Haha. Looking forward to checking out more of your content.
She is and always will be a very talented singer. Her voice is incredible.
I grew up down the road from where Avril did. I was a few years older, but her style of dress was very much what we wore in that region a few years earlier (pre,during, and post Grunge era). When I first saw her on Muchmusic, I was blown away by how local she appeared.
Great video. I’ve been a punk and hardcore guy since the mid 90s. She was a badass when she first came around and she still is.
Thanks!
lol, the thumbnail asked "Why people hate Avril Lavigne". I didn't know the words "hate", "Avril", and "Lavigne" could even go into the same sentence.
The clickbait got me too. But I was pleasantly surprised by his essay showing why the haters were wrong
I actually regret hiding the fact I heard her music when I was a kid. Looking back, Avril Lavigne is the reason why Paramore and Blink 182 grew on me.
Girlfriend was my jam
Pretty much all of us "heard" Avril, but who actually listened? XD
@@austintrousdale2397 Just say you hate her, its getting embarassing
@@austintrousdale2397 What? You've actually heard other people/the radio play Avril Lavigne's music? I'm jealous of you lmfao. I don't even hear her music anymore as it's usually the same old boring generic bland modern mainstream Pop music from the last decade or the same old oldies that I've heard hundreds of time before. If I were you, I would be friggin' delighted to hear any of her songs played. I've had to request other people to play her music because nobody else has the imagination to give her or her music the time of day.
Besides her music, I remember being a huge fan in 2010-11-ish (I was born in '99) and absolutely loving her Bast Damn Thing era. In contrary to her iconic tomboy style, this one was very girly and focused in being cute and edgy, for example the pink-black combo with hearts and skulls. That was probably my transition from childish clothing to teenage fashion. I wanted to own those clothes so bad but that clothing was never available in my country because emo/scene never arrived here. To add, I was embarrassed to ask my mom for edgier clothes.
The same hate avril gets is the same hate Billie is getting. I hate it, Avril was my idol growing up, and I respect and enjoy Billie's music. They both broke boundaries and paved ways for new music/artist. They are probably some of the most humble authentic artist around today.
The difference is Avril is talented. Billie just whispers cringey lyrics written by her brother and uses her pretend depression as her entire identity and a selling point.
Billie's voice is much better, but her songs are musically boring, with very little development. She needs to break out of the four-chord drone.
the issue is that while avril's sk8er boi and i can do better can be labeled as alt cuz it's pop punk, billie is at most alternative pop, but not alternative in the original meaning. the reason why avril could top charts in the first place was because the hits were very diversed and ranged from destiny's child and xtina to linkin park and kittie. billie's popularity started off at a time where MAINSTREAM (and i'd like to put the stress on that) music lacks diversity in genre and broadness in vocabulary and melody. i get that avril from 2002 and billie from the mid 10s may have a similar tomboyish aesthetic, but the comparisons are not entirely accurate
Billie gets hate due to her fan base really. Nothing is more cringe then hearing about shes the only real and dark artist to exist.
Billie has always had an annoying and massive ego. Avril has always been pretty modest. Personality matters to ppl.
I became a fan of hers back in August 2002, I was 12 and my primary caregiver had died. She was the first (and only) person/band I've been a die-hard fan of. Being her fan is the reason why I speak English today. Even though I stopped being a fan in 2006, being her fan definitely helped me go through some stuff and eventually find more artists that I still like to this day.
I love Avril Lavigne. She writes her music (even if it's with a co-writer), self taught on the guitar, does her own makeup and is proud to be Canadian. Just remember that without Avril we wouldn't have Billie eilish and Olivia Rodrigo.
It's interesting to compare Avril's career to that of Alanis Morissette. Alanis actually did comply with the system and record two pop albums before making Jagged little pill and transitioning to rock. And yet, her rock debut was considered "legit". The only difference I can come up with was the perceived maturity. Morissette started with You Oughta Know, an angry anthem of a woman scorned. Lavigne debuted with a song about a boy, while showing an edgy teenage girl aesthetics. And I believe one thing rockers disregard more than women in rock is girls in rock. We as a society really hate what teenage girls like. And the rock scene is even worse than the rest of the society.
And I believe one thing rockers disregard more than women in rock is girls in rock" True. I always felt that Stevie Nicks or Joni Mitchell don't get the respect they deserve. Alanis was considered bold for songs like You Oughta Know back in 95, but also remember that this was before the pop machinery assault of the early 2000s.
I don't think anyone heard of her before one hand in my pocket
Idk. I like female artists & musicians. I like their brattiness, fearlessness, & angst. Breaking norms and all that jazz. Gonna create a fake date account for my fiance and make him look extra special to salute. 👊 sincerely, the influenced 🤗." Guhl powah "✌
Agreed. I lived Alanis also. I've always loved female musicians and respected their work. That's why Avril Lavigne, I found people that really just love music liked her. The people that were caught up in superficial nonsense maybe didn't or looked down on her. I never did. My male friends we all listened to all kinds of music some of us had played in our garage bands and skateboarders, some listened to punk or metal or whatever. But it was actually those guys who turned me on to Avril Lavigne. I was a grown a@s adult in mid 20s by then. And I heard "let go" and didn't even think oh she's just a kid or something but I thought how does she make such incredible music at that age? That album just blew me away we had some of the best time of our lives listening to it and it sounds as fresh today as it did then which I think is the real genius of it.
Her 2nd Album was terrific, IMO. TOGETHER, TAKE ME AWAY, DON'T TELL ME, and HOW DOES IT FEEL are all great.
It’s absolutely a great record
Yeah, I feel people who vocally don't like her have heard Sk8er Boi and Girlfriend and none of her other stuff. I still really enjoy what she put out on her 2nd album, it just gets no attention.
I love those type of songs from her, like losing my grip they are great
Awesome video, Finn! I've been loving these "Misunderstood Genius" videos, and thanks for letting me know about her new album coming up. I had no idea she was putting out a new album soon, and I'm a huge fan of her's. Awesome work man, love the content!
Thank you!
@@ThePunkRockMBA And now you're on Sacred Symbols+! This day couldn't get any better haha
She was alot better singer songwriter than most rock stars of the early 2000s and she still rocks
I just like that she wasn’t preachy or got into politics. She just let her music speak for itself!
I think I had a similar experience to a lot of people here. In the 2000's when I was in middle school I didn't really consider it an option to like Avril. I dismissed her as girly/poppy/uncool. Now as an adult I have gone back and am not ashamed to say I love a lot of her songs. I wish I had had more confidence as a kid to just listen to whatever sounded good.
Yeah i listened to a few of her sons BC my daughter is learning drums, i i was like "oh shit this is good "
I was 13 in 2003 and used my chore money to buy her first album "for my sister" but really I wanted to listen to it and check out the CD booklet. She was my second crush after Mary-Kate and Ashley haha.
Agree with this, but my middle school girlfriend loved her at the time so I got away with listening to her 🤣
Similar story, I'm a couple years younger than you but still I had a very elitist attitude during my early teens and hated her. Then basically i grew up and was like "y'know she's kinda cool"
I will agree, she has some major bangers over the years. Only bad thing I've really heard, and I repeat "heard", is her fan interaction. But not everyone can be like Andrew W.K. Avril is a great vocalist, which is something no one can take from her. She put the work and effort majority of the population doesn't, which is very respectable. Great video, hope you all are doing well.
She's generally nice to fans.I think that was a one off.She's really nice to fans.Met her in 2019.Was cool.
And those pictures with fans were photoshopped as well.
People hate Avril? What? I'm a 32 year old guy so was about 12 when she was new. In junior high I openly said I loved her, and so did some of my jock friends. I've never heard anyone talk shit about her back then or now.
Yeah same our guy group liked Avril. Other guys are the ones introduced me to her music. I hadn't heard of it but I liked it right away. I remember first time heard "let go," my buddy was blasting it in his pickup truck we were doing donuts in a mud field having a blast. We didn't gaf what people thought not even back in high school.
You made some good points with the industry plant issue in that her come-up wasn’t through the laborious DIY hustle scene. However, I would argue that she wasn’t because like you said the sound and aesthetic came from her and not the label. She’s just very lucky in a way that she was in a good position to be marketed: Young white pleasant looking-female that can write, sing and perform, and sell the anti-thesis of the late 90s/2000s bubblegum pop that Britney-Xtina Aguilera-Jessica Simpson-Mandy Moore dominated. In a way, that was a brilliant branding and marketing strategy on her part to breakout. Hence, no to being an industry 🪴.
Loved avril back in the day. Still love her. She is def iconic
I remember getting Under My Skin as a kid and loving it! All my friends didn't like Avril but I didn't care 😂 Great video, Finn! Another interesting topic for you to cover would be Kittie. My best friend and I were the only ones who listened to them. Everybody else in our friend group wrote them off as girls trying too hard. I listened to Brackish the other day and it was just as good as I remember 👍🏻
Spit is on of the best Nu Metal albums. 🤘🏻
My brother plays in Oi! And hardcore Bands, skated in the 80s and 90s, etc. and he listens to Avril. Like what u like. Fuck what other people think.
Canada really promotes the performing arts. For as small as the population is, look at how many singers, musicians, actors and comedians are from Canada.
As a late millennial (born in '94) you spoke to my soul with this video. Can you make more videos that touch that era of early '00s and the effect they had on us, kids and young teens? My generation literally got into the alternative/dark scene by these artists that were huge at the time, linkin park, system of a down, green day, avril lavigne, evanescence, and I remember that "true" metalheads/goths/punks etc were mocking them. To us though, they were the bridge that brought us to this scene only to discover more and more😁
Her attitude toward the label, is what made her punk✊heck yeah
Fr I respect her hella more since I heard that
Yeah she never sold out. She wore what she was comfortable in skater clothes and did her thing and put the music first. And she didn't put up with their crap either
With the exception of lyrics that rhyme a word with itself, Avril's music is catchy as hell. You can't really criticize it from a mainstream pop or alternative perspective.
Screw the elitists. I effing LOVE Avril Lavigne.
I was 19 when Avril Lavigne broke big and was knee deep in hardcore (especially ebullition, level-plane, robotic empire, gravity, gold standard labs, etc underground "screamo" type stuff). Being that into DIY hardcore, I wasn't watching MTV and hardly ever listened to the radio. I think I heard the first three Avril Lavigne singles (how could you avoid them?) and couldn't have given a damn about the punk influence. I knew it wasn't "real" punk, whatever that is, but was past the point in my life where I was insecure enough to care. I feel like every fan of a genre which is very tribal/"underground"/community based eventually reached a turning point they realize that "fake" versions of what they are into, or younger people who are "posers" are some of the least important things in the entire world.
👏🏼👏🏼
AVRIL LAVIGNE ROCKS . Why would anyone hate her ? I just seen her in concert on July the 9th right after my birthday July the 8th . I will always love Avril no matter what anyone says
I’m a huge fan of the channel…I’ve watched almost every video now. I first came across Finn from his video on Straight Edge which is my background.
The thing I love about a video like this is that it helps tear down the stupid preconceived notions and criticism I had of someone like Avril, Korn, slipknot or other groups that I swore that I would never listen to. I have a lot more respect for these artist now that I’ve watched Finn’s videos on them and have to admit that my stupid “superiority issues” as a big fan of The Refused and 90s straight edge put me into a box. I still love those bands but I’ve actually discovered a ton of new music from this channel and it has helped me to be a more rounded musician and appreciator of music.