Best vid I have seen in a long time! Nobody ever gives me the information I am looking for. This is how it's done. The sound samples and exact measurements are wicked helpful.
Excellent Video Eric, very important detail if overlooked you could be chasing a tone issue and not realize your pickup height is all wrong. It's all subjective but you still want to be somewhere close and not overlook this.
Heck ya Johnny Romero, funny enough I was just there with this Boden. Checking this and that wondering why it sounded SO compressed. Then it dawned on me....... Completely forgot to look at the pickup height, which is how this video came about, LOL.
I've ignored this so far (I knew that pickup height matters but still chose to ignore it :D ), your video is way more helpful than the other stuff I've read/seen so far.
Bought a guitar with EMG 81/85 pickups and was kinda disappointed about the sound of it. Turns out the pickups were way to close to the strings. Thank you very much for this video. Helped me a lot.
Great video! And yes even with active pickups, pickup height is important. You can hear that the closer you get, the more mushy it sounds in the upper frequencies, almost as it kills all the definition of the lows and low mids and replaces it with a more crunchy sounds, but not in a good way
I struggled for a long time with my palm muted tone and got very frustrated until I realized the issue was nothing more than the bridge pickups being way too high. I feel like a total idiot now.
Yes @danielkoskinen8811, it has everything to do with "clean" solid palm mutes!!! Constantly learning and improving is what it's all about, SO glad you dialed in your tone!!! What geetar did you playin?
There was a discrepancy between 3.0mm which sounded decent and 2.0mm which started to sound a little choked. This further proves my research that 2.4mm is the sweet spot for a starting point
only thing i notice when testing it myself was the volume and gain is slightly higher. much prefer the bridge pickup closer to the strings and the neck backed off for a bit more warmth. but honestly, the different in tone is so subtle, its safer to back the pickups off so the magnets dont pull your strings giving a warbling effect. or stagger the 'poles' so its closer to the high tension strings and backed off near the lower ones, that's what a lot of people do.
Thank you for sharing @WizardOfCheese. Absolutely it is subtle but can make a big difference. I have sold guitars in the past because they sounded terrible not knowing that I was a pickup adjustment away from perfection LOL!!
Finally someone pointed out this problem! IMHO 3mm is a good start to get good plam muting. I tried all my guitars, ESP, Solar, PRS They all have a very good sound when 6 strings reach 3mm, but the height of 1 string needs to be adjusted. Furthermore, I found that adjusting the height on 1 string greatly affects the plam muting of 5 and 4 string. so I adjust it by listening to the plam muting on 5 strings instead of 1 string.
Interesting that I found 4mm and 2mm to sound great in different regards.. one for the clarity (or heaviness of the mutes) and the other for drive. You'd think 3mm would be the sweet spot but to my ears it was just kind of bland.
@X9Eric it's a Vigilant custom build from a luthier in Victoria BC. Alder body with cottonwood burl top and roasted maple neck/fretboard. Fishman modern fluence set at roughly 2mm when top fret is pressed down for both sides.. maybe slightly higher. I didn't measure just adjusted by ear. I was also paying attention to the treble to bass balance as I found the moderns can get quite harsh in the high mids.
You didn’t mention the high strings here. I’ve found I like 3.2mm for the bass strings and a little closer, 2.4mm for the treble strings. Seems to work for all my guitars.
What I heard was that the signal gets stronger but the tone isn't as nice to my ears. I found that I prefer the PU farther away from the strings. Try different positions until you find one that works for you,
Woah, so that's why my guitar somehow sounded better when I put the pickups back after removing them to measure the cavities, they must've just been slightly off for my preference beforehand
I adjust mine by ear and these ended up at 3mm. Too close sounds like strings arent muted properly or smth and too far sounds too thin so its a balance. Definitely dont get why people put these or emg 81s at 1.5mm or closer that sounds overly compressed and you cant just reamp itt differently and take it out if you dont like that but if you use reasonable pup height you can always reamp it with more gain, tube screamer, eq, compressor etc
Excellent point TheGunmac 10, you nailed it, setting it by ear is the best way to do it! I am also with you as the bridge pickup ended up pretty close to 3 mm as well, ha ha seemed to be the sweet spot for this Boden. 1.75ish mm was incredibly compressed, but even worse than that, a couple years ago I learned that having the pickup too close allowed the low strings to eat into the bridge pickup due to my retarded heavy right handed playing.
Hey @jacobbockover1628, they say you can run actives higher than passives but I found I typically like on the farther side away from the string than closer. I also used the voice 2 to set the height as I found it easier to hear the difference better, Maybe try that?
Bro this might actually change the game for me I was not ready for the difference it made I’ve been chasing a death tone specifically the sound of perseverance and my tone is damn near spot on but it just seems like it needed to be a lil cleaner/more clarity not a lot more but a lil and this might solve everything possibly that is 😂
Hey @Buryitall22, important to consider how much influence the neck pick-ups magnet has on your strings! Also, I am playing on the bridge position at 0:06. Hope this video helped you!
I don’t know if anyone have asked this but, what happens with the harmonics? I like the palm muting but is this 4mm distance catching well the harmonics? Specially for the pinch and divebombs, what happen with that? I ask because I play a lot of harmonic in the first 3 frets on the lower strings, and of course harmonics in the highs for those pretty high divebombs
Absolutely! I can also share that I have different pick up heights on different guitars because IMHO they are all different . Highly recommend trying different positions and using your eyes to guide you. It is pretty easy to find the sweet spot to your eyes if you use them and NOT your eyes. Something I am ALWAYS fighting ha ha
One of my guitars has really high output ceramic pickups. Would you say ceramic pickups with powerful magnets need to be further away from the strings than say PAF type alnico ones? I’ve dropped my pickups down to 5mm away, the numbers feel wrong but it sounds kind of right to me but still doubting 😂.
IMHO use yours ears to tell you where the pick up sounds best to you. The height or number doesn't matter so don't let that bother you. The most important thing is that it sounds good to you. Nothing is better than being inspired to play because you love the sound that you are getting! Happy shredding!
@@X9Eric thanks for the advice Eric. Your videos are quality, you should have more subscribers. There are lots of videos on strat and low output pickup setup but not many for high gain styles. I have subscribed.
Hey @emj9927, I would used these setting and fine tune to your ears and what sounds good to you! Remember there is NO correct setting until it sounds good to you!
Eric thanks for the info! I've been hunting for this type of video or info out there. Q: When you measure to the pickup, to you go to the middle of the pickup or the edge? Because I have fishman fluence moderns and the inside edge of my bridge pickup is closer to the strings than the middle is. Still trying to dial in the sound of this guitar, especially with amp sims like Neural DSP. Thanks!
Very informative and helpful video! Thanks! I have Fishmans too, but I have modern 7's and I find that 3mm is good bass side height for bridge. How do you set neck pickup height for bass and treble for both mics, just curious🤔
Typically I try to play switching from bridge to neck PU and set volume as close to the same as I can, i.e. no drop in volume when playing in the neck position. Then I try to fine tune from there. Listen for the tone to get muddy, then you know you are too close and the strings will warble due to magnet pull. If it helps I currently have the neck set to 2 mm at bass and 2 mm at treble side. Bridge is set to 3 mm at bass and 2 mm at treble side. Happy tone hunting!
@@X9Eric Thank you sir, this helps alot. I have now 2.5mm at treble side for bright tone and it gives little bit that airness in tone so it isn't so compressed but everyone has their own taste. Now I'm too tired to do anything so tone hunting begins tomorrow! Have a great day:)
Hey @ruinofspace, I typically like on the farther side away from the string than closer, allows room for string vibration and adds a little more "air" to the notes IMHO.
so if i put pickups far away from the strings, will that also eliminate the muddy sound from my guitar? it sounds pretty muddy when i play in DROP G and its a 26.5 scale 7 string :/
IMHO placing the pickups away from the strings adds a more airy sound that is less direct. The closer to the strings gives more focus but can be too sharp and direct. It is a balance in the middle that is not harsh or far away. Too far away also makes it sound like you playing in another room ha ha. To clear the mud, try turning the bass and gain all the way down. Then start with the turning up the gain until it sounds clear then add bass to taste. I find that having less gain really brings out the growl AND I prefer the non active or passive pick ups for distorted tones. The gain is the key. Hope that helps, let me know what you find?
Lemme guess. U used the same amp settings for all pickups positions and told that "oh, that close one sounds like a mess". I'm pretty sure u did that. That is not a comparison at all.
@@X9Eric no problem and thank you for being so informative and super helpful it’s has seriously helped me out in the guitar world and I really appreciate it big time.
Wrong, wrong , wrong. 2mm sounds best. Any lower and you lose balls and output, sounds like a weak passive. They should be practically kissing the strings.
LOL, the cool thing about this topic is that there is no incorrect setting. All that matters is that you get the sound you want out of your pick ups! Happy tone hunting @adam2178!
3:15 that "aaahhhh" and "djndjndjn" explained everything much better than any words could lmao
LOL...
Best vid I have seen in a long time! Nobody ever gives me the information I am looking for. This is how it's done. The sound samples and exact measurements are wicked helpful.
Excellent Video Eric, very important detail if overlooked you could be chasing a tone issue and not realize your pickup height is all wrong. It's all subjective but you still want to be somewhere close and not overlook this.
Heck ya Johnny Romero, funny enough I was just there with this Boden. Checking this and that wondering why it sounded SO compressed. Then it dawned on me....... Completely forgot to look at the pickup height, which is how this video came about, LOL.
I've ignored this so far (I knew that pickup height matters but still chose to ignore it :D ), your video is way more helpful than the other stuff I've read/seen so far.
Very helpful; thanks!
Bought a guitar with EMG 81/85 pickups and was kinda disappointed about the sound of it. Turns out the pickups were way to close to the strings. Thank you very much for this video. Helped me a lot.
That's great news @AKFourTwenty, so happy to hear that!!
U look like steveo
Ha ha... thanks man! Well I am taking that as a compliment anyways... Hope so? ha ha
@@X9Eric Yeeeeeeeeah duuuuude!
@@X9EricSteve O rules, so yeah! 👊🏻
Great video! And yes even with active pickups, pickup height is important. You can hear that the closer you get, the more mushy it sounds in the upper frequencies, almost as it kills all the definition of the lows and low mids and replaces it with a more crunchy sounds, but not in a good way
very cool video bro. i liked and subscribed letszseeee what else you got. rock on bro p.s great sound on your into
Very useful video. I like the Proverbs quote at the end.
Easy peasy and straight to the point. Awesome. 🤘🏼🤘🏼
I struggled for a long time with my palm muted tone and got very frustrated until I realized the issue was nothing more than the bridge pickups being way too high. I feel like a total idiot now.
Yes @danielkoskinen8811, it has everything to do with "clean" solid palm mutes!!! Constantly learning and improving is what it's all about, SO glad you dialed in your tone!!! What geetar did you playin?
There was a discrepancy between 3.0mm which sounded decent and 2.0mm which started to sound a little choked. This further proves my research that 2.4mm is the sweet spot for a starting point
Awesome @luisbarrera5740. Hope it inspires you to find your perfect height!
only thing i notice when testing it myself was the volume and gain is slightly higher. much prefer the bridge pickup closer to the strings and the neck backed off for a bit more warmth. but honestly, the different in tone is so subtle, its safer to back the pickups off so the magnets dont pull your strings giving a warbling effect. or stagger the 'poles' so its closer to the high tension strings and backed off near the lower ones, that's what a lot of people do.
Thank you for sharing @WizardOfCheese. Absolutely it is subtle but can make a big difference. I have sold guitars in the past because they sounded terrible not knowing that I was a pickup adjustment away from perfection LOL!!
Cool video 3mm really got me! Sounded goooooood 👍
Hope this helps get you set up with your desired tone!!
Thank you for this video!
This is helpful for pm but is there an optimal distance to have pinch harmonics ring out better?
Very helpful
My bandmate has the same problem. We gonna try and see
Finally someone pointed out this problem! IMHO 3mm is a good start to get good plam muting. I tried all my guitars, ESP, Solar, PRS They all have a very good sound when 6 strings reach 3mm, but the height of 1 string needs to be adjusted.
Furthermore, I found that adjusting the height on 1 string greatly affects the plam muting of 5 and 4 string. so I adjust it by listening to the plam muting on 5 strings instead of 1 string.
Interesting that I found 4mm and 2mm to sound great in different regards.. one for the clarity (or heaviness of the mutes) and the other for drive. You'd think 3mm would be the sweet spot but to my ears it was just kind of bland.
Excellent point @vidmohit4684, I totally found the same thing! What guitar you playing?
@X9Eric it's a Vigilant custom build from a luthier in Victoria BC. Alder body with cottonwood burl top and roasted maple neck/fretboard. Fishman modern fluence set at roughly 2mm when top fret is pressed down for both sides.. maybe slightly higher. I didn't measure just adjusted by ear. I was also paying attention to the treble to bass balance as I found the moderns can get quite harsh in the high mids.
You didn’t mention the high strings here. I’ve found I like 3.2mm for the bass strings and a little closer, 2.4mm for the treble strings. Seems to work for all my guitars.
Sounds like it got thinner as you went closer to the pickup...
What I heard was that the signal gets stronger but the tone isn't as nice to my ears. I found that I prefer the PU farther away from the strings. Try different positions until you find one that works for you,
Woah, so that's why my guitar somehow sounded better when I put the pickups back after removing them to measure the cavities, they must've just been slightly off for my preference beforehand
I adjust mine by ear and these ended up at 3mm. Too close sounds like strings arent muted properly or smth and too far sounds too thin so its a balance. Definitely dont get why people put these or emg 81s at 1.5mm or closer that sounds overly compressed and you cant just reamp itt differently and take it out if you dont like that but if you use reasonable pup height you can always reamp it with more gain, tube screamer, eq, compressor etc
Excellent point TheGunmac 10, you nailed it, setting it by ear is the best way to do it! I am also with you as the bridge pickup ended up pretty close to 3 mm as well, ha ha seemed to be the sweet spot for this Boden.
1.75ish mm was incredibly compressed, but even worse than that, a couple years ago I learned that having the pickup too close allowed the low strings to eat into the bridge pickup due to my retarded heavy right handed playing.
Legit I noticed this even tho I use mine at 2-3mm u can literally just add more gain or boost ahahah
Extra gain on amp won't make up for output on the pickup. It will still sound weak.
Thanks for the video. It was helpful
It's usually pretty easy to know about what I wanna do to with pups but I'm struggle with fishman fluence
Hey @jacobbockover1628, they say you can run actives higher than passives but I found I typically like on the farther side away from the string than closer. I also used the voice 2 to set the height as I found it easier to hear the difference better, Maybe try that?
Don’t you think the pick-up height being lower (farther from strings) reduces the pick attack and takes off a lot of the top end?
It does make a difference and is a good thing to keep in mind!
It does make a difference and is a good thing to keep in mind!
@@X9Eric Thanks!
great video....give people something to work with.
Bro this might actually change the game for me I was not ready for the difference it made I’ve been chasing a death tone specifically the sound of perseverance and my tone is damn near spot on but it just seems like it needed to be a lil cleaner/more clarity not a lot more but a lil and this might solve everything possibly that is 😂
That's awesome @nathanrossiter122!!!
Is it just me or was he on the neck pickup the whole time according to his pickup selector switch?
Hey @Buryitall22, important to consider how much influence the neck pick-ups magnet has on your strings! Also, I am playing on the bridge position at 0:06. Hope this video helped you!
I don’t know if anyone have asked this but, what happens with the harmonics? I like the palm muting but is this 4mm distance catching well the harmonics? Specially for the pinch and divebombs, what happen with that? I ask because I play a lot of harmonic in the first 3 frets on the lower strings, and of course harmonics in the highs for those pretty high divebombs
Hey @darwinmalo2871, please experiment and share what you find?
Agree, adjust to your preferences, lower is better
Thank you
Very Informative! Would you say the same applies to passive humbuckers?
Absolutely! I can also share that I have different pick up heights on different guitars because IMHO they are all different . Highly recommend trying different positions and using your eyes to guide you. It is pretty easy to find the sweet spot to your eyes if you use them and NOT your eyes. Something I am ALWAYS fighting ha ha
One of my guitars has really high output ceramic pickups. Would you say ceramic pickups with powerful magnets need to be further away from the strings than say PAF type alnico ones? I’ve dropped my pickups down to 5mm away, the numbers feel wrong but it sounds kind of right to me but still doubting 😂.
IMHO use yours ears to tell you where the pick up sounds best to you. The height or number doesn't matter so don't let that bother you. The most important thing is that it sounds good to you. Nothing is better than being inspired to play because you love the sound that you are getting! Happy shredding!
@@X9Eric thanks for the advice Eric. Your videos are quality, you should have more subscribers. There are lots of videos on strat and low output pickup setup but not many for high gain styles. I have subscribed.
What about acive pickups emg? What is the recomanded height? Thanks
Hey @emj9927, I would used these setting and fine tune to your ears and what sounds good to you! Remember there is NO correct setting until it sounds good to you!
Eric thanks for the info! I've been hunting for this type of video or info out there. Q: When you measure to the pickup, to you go to the middle of the pickup or the edge? Because I have fishman fluence moderns and the inside edge of my bridge pickup is closer to the strings than the middle is. Still trying to dial in the sound of this guitar, especially with amp sims like Neural DSP. Thanks!
Hey Soundstorm, check out 0:30 as I do this on the low string and the high strings. Hope this gets you sorted! Happy tone dialing!
Very informative and helpful video! Thanks! I have Fishmans too, but I have modern 7's and I find that 3mm is good bass side height for bridge. How do you set neck pickup height for bass and treble for both mics, just curious🤔
Typically I try to play switching from bridge to neck PU and set volume as close to the same as I can, i.e. no drop in volume when playing in the neck position. Then I try to fine tune from there. Listen for the tone to get muddy, then you know you are too close and the strings will warble due to magnet pull.
If it helps I currently have the neck set to 2 mm at bass and 2 mm at treble side. Bridge is set to 3 mm at bass and 2 mm at treble side. Happy tone hunting!
@@X9Eric Thank you sir, this helps alot. I have now 2.5mm at treble side for bright tone and it gives little bit that airness in tone so it isn't so compressed but everyone has their own taste. Now I'm too tired to do anything so tone hunting begins tomorrow! Have a great day:)
@@X9Eric Oh also forgot to mention that this channel got new subscriber;) Quality content. Keep it up!
@@markustheguitarist thank SO much and glad to have be a part of the family!
the sound is overdriven whether the gap is 4, 3, 2 or not ...
Thanks
My strat pick ups almost flat
I like the chunk chunk chunk
LOL @adrian3137!
If you raised your pickups height too high the tone get hampered
In the first test 1.5 mm was much better than 4mm. In the second the difference 2mm was not that good. Did you use the same pickups? Same guitar part?
Hey @phantasma669. Ha ha yes the same guitar and pickups were used throughout. Thanks for watching!
4 mm or 2mm ? for 7 string F#
Hey @ruinofspace, I typically like on the farther side away from the string than closer, allows room for string vibration and adds a little more "air" to the notes IMHO.
@@X9Eric too 🤘
🤘🤘
4mm
You saved me
Happy New Years to you!
so if i put pickups far away from the strings, will that also eliminate the muddy sound from my guitar? it sounds pretty muddy when i play in DROP G and its a 26.5 scale 7 string :/
IMHO placing the pickups away from the strings adds a more airy sound that is less direct. The closer to the strings gives more focus but can be too sharp and direct. It is a balance in the middle that is not harsh or far away. Too far away also makes it sound like you playing in another room ha ha.
To clear the mud, try turning the bass and gain all the way down. Then start with the turning up the gain until it sounds clear then add bass to taste. I find that having less gain really brings out the growl AND I prefer the non active or passive pick ups for distorted tones. The gain is the key. Hope that helps, let me know what you find?
approx 1/8" you're welcome
U look like jim morrison + mick yaeger
hmm @ckngmad1357, thanks
Lemme guess. U used the same amp settings for all pickups positions and told that "oh, that close one sounds like a mess".
I'm pretty sure u did that. That is not a comparison at all.
maybe, I don't know
You are so wrong
you have a fking ukraine profile picture. Youre judgement on anything can not be taken seriously
I had my esp Kirk with bone beakers from the factory set super low and it sounded terrible so I went to 3mm and presto I could hear the chugs again
That's awesome thanks for sharing experience!
@@X9Eric no problem and thank you for being so informative and super helpful it’s has seriously helped me out in the guitar world and I really appreciate it big time.
Wrong, wrong , wrong. 2mm sounds best. Any lower and you lose balls and output, sounds like a weak passive. They should be practically kissing the strings.
LOL, the cool thing about this topic is that there is no incorrect setting. All that matters is that you get the sound you want out of your pick ups! Happy tone hunting @adam2178!
Bro thinks HIS opinion is the only way to go 🤡