@@banditkeith6479 I mean DH only has wings in metamorphosis form but uh, I think the important thing is in the campaign you never see either of them fly. You see DL pop in and out of existence basically lol whereas Naga in the in game cut scenes and the cinematic are swimming. Not that it matters though because like there's not a lot of water maps with deep water.
@@lofasz3328 DH can walk on water though. Don't know why that's a thing. Still there are maps that has water making it an advantage for fast expansion and saving purchasing zeppelins.
@@banditkeith6479 are those maps in the ranked mode though? I feel as though they're not? Could be wrong though lol. He can only walk on water because of the whole power up from reign of chaos I'm guessing.
Awesome to see Infi's point of view! A lot of good points, yet I am a bit disappointed he doesn't give his full trust to the community stepping up for the future of wc3. Blizzard is much less trust worthy these days.
Naga - Has a Tavern Hero. Already has most assets in the game. Needs complete rebalancing. Water walking discrepancy. Goblins - Two available Tavern heroes. Goblin neutral units are potentially used. Lore issue with neutral goblin map pieces. Draenei - Has a campaign hero (with reused abilities) and units. Unique buildings and potential playstyle. Potential balancing issues with stealth. Demons - Has a Tavern Hero and potential heroes with Doomguard and Archimonde abilities. Orc warlock potentially used. Discrepancy issue with undead Dreadlord hero. Balance issues with chaos damage. Quilboar/Centaur/Harpies/Ogres - Creep units and buildings available for reuse. Blood-Elves - Potential campaign assets and conjoining with Naga. Potentially easiest to balance, or requires complete rework. Discrepancy whether human units/buildings would reused or shifting to be Blood-Elf exclusive.
Because of Infi's "recent" success against Happy back in 2020, when he crushed Happy 3-0 on LAN ping at Huya Super League, people think that he is a new player, but he is actually as old school as it gets. Like Grubby, he's been around since the inception and was already a veteran even back in 2010 when SC2 came out and many pros switched to that game. The difference is that Grubby was great from the start, while players like Infi and Happy took 10 years playing at the pro level to find their stride. When people say that Happy is the #1 player in the World, we need to be careful. There are tiers of pros. Happy is an S-tier pro, and the greatest Undead player of all times. But if you ask who is *the* best player in the World regardless of race, it is a really tough call between Happy, Infi and Lyn. Those are the 3 S-tier pros, and on a level above all other pros. Lyn recently showed his supremacy beating Happy 3-2 at TeD Cup Semi-Finals. Over the past 5 years, Lyn and Infi are the only 2 players to have defeated Happy on LAN ping(as fair as it gets). Moon is also at that level, but the problem with Moon is that he is a very fickle player who goes through phases. When he is in top shape and using his custom strategies, he is the greatest player of all times, like in 2007 when he went 40 tournament games against top pros without dropping a map. But when he is out of shape and unmotivated, he is like a 2000 MMR player. Just look what Happy did to him at DreamHack semi-final last year, beating him 3-0 without any game being very close. Recently, Moon beat Happy, too. So it depends. The 3 S-tier pros are Happy, Infi and Lyn, with Moon being S-tier in top shape, but high B-tier to A-tier when out of shape and uncreative.
@@emrickfilteau6288 Ask Grubby😁Sky had literally a 90% win rate against him. In all fairness, the Human Vs Orc matchup was severely imbalanced back in those days duie to the cost and armor of human towers. "Sky push" was invincible against Orc because there was no way to stop if with Orc tier-1 economy. Yes, people who think that Infi or TH are the greatest Human players ever say that because they were simply not around in 2004-2006. He was #1, #2 and #3 best player in the World for a couple of years. For dominance, only Sky 2005-2007 and Moon 2007 have dominated as Happy has now. In fact, it was Moon that finally put an end to Sky's almost 3 year long reign of terror in the 2 major Asian tournaments of 2007, crushing him wiith his weird strats and supreme macro control without dropping a map. Moon was in one of his slumps in late 2005 and only faced Sky on 2 games online and didn't even compete in many tournaments that year. Moon would come back a year and a half latter in his Fifth Race God mode and stomp Sky into the ground who up to that point had arouns a 95% win rate against other top pros and was deemed unstoppable. When I said that Happy, Infi and Lyn are the 3 S-tier pros with Moon a honorable mention, I was talking about the past 5-6 years in WC3. If we are talking about the entire history of the game, then yes, Sky is undoubtedly the #1 greatest Human player ever and it's not even close. Infi deserves to be #2 and above TH even though I am more of a fan of TH because Infi did the impossible of beating Happy on LAN without dropping a map, and because in 2020 he also beat both Lyn and Happy in ELO ranking For greatest of *all times* it's really a tough call between Happy, Lyn, Sky and Moon. We can only say that they are the greatest of their respective races. But deciding who is *the* G.O.A.T is hard because it is a rock-paper-scissor type of thing. Happy can dominate everybody, except for Lyn, who has a 73% win rate Vs Happy(Lyn truly is Happy's Kryptonite). And while Lyn goes 50/50 against Infi, back in the day he did just as poorly against Sky as Grubby. Moon loses badly to Happy, but he used to smash Sky and beats Lyn more often than not, too. Overall, the top #2 best of all times are Moon and Lyn. Lyn deserves to be in the top #2 of all times and above Happy because of the following. Lyn is the only player to have won both WCG and WGL, he has earned the #2 highest prize money ever, and he is the only player that consistently(more often than not) beats Happy who is the most dominant player of the past 6 years. As for Moon, he often loses to Happy, but he is #1 highest earner in WC3 history, has won more total tournaments than anyone else(literally 10 X more than Happy), and is the only player to never have slipped out of the top #10 since TFT came out in 2003. Also, even though Happy is more dominant now, Moon in 2007 had the strongest display of dominance ever, going almost a whole year without losing a single game in competition. Happy never achieved this degree of dominance. For skill *only* over the past 5 years, it's: 1. Lyn/Happy(difficult to pick one, because even though Lyn beat Happy almost 3 out of 4 games, Lyn loses to top Elves and Eer0 who Happy often beats) 2. Infi 3. Moon For who is the most skillful WC3 player ever since the game came out in 2003: 1. Moon/Lyn(they both deserve it, and you really can't put one above the other. Lyn won more important tournaments than Moon, is more consistent in his greatness and often beats players Moon struggles against. Conversely, Moon has won more total tournaments than Lyn, beats Lyn more often than not even though he struggles against the players that Lyn beats, and has achieved a level of dominance that Lyn never has) 2. Sky. Most legendary run ever. Like Happy on steroids. Pioneered the aggressive use of towers and siege tactics. Nearly invincible from 2005 to 2007. Made top pros look like they didn't belong there with him. Had a win rate of 90% against top pros in tournaments. Insane. 3. Happy. Longer run of dominance than anybody, dominating since 2016, although not as extremely dominant as Moon and Sky were in their shorter runs. Happy deserves to be #3 ever at this point because his dominance for the past 5 years, which is a long period of time, against everyone except against Infi and Lyn. Although his dominance is not as extreme as Sky's was, it is lasting longer. 4. Grubby. I still put Grubby above Infi for all times great because Grubby is 1 of only 2 players ever to win WCG two times(the other is Sky). He was also able to go 50/50 against Lyn in his prime even though Lyn out-microed him. He was able to beat Lyn by being smarter and a better strategist. Probably the most intelligent player in the history of the game. Even Lyn watches his streams for ideas. Oh, he also beat Moon to win WCG in 2008, and that last game was arguably the last Orc Vs Elf game ever. 5. Infi. His accomplishments list is not that impressive compared to Lyn's and Moon's, but he has consistently been the best Human player for 10 years, and he is the only player to have defeated Happy on LAN 3-0, something that not even Lyn can claim(Lyn beats Happy more often than not, but he always loses at least one map). So Infi deserves to be #5 on this alone.
Most of the fans knew infi not Because he 3-0 hpy in 2019, Thats just a small step compared to his whole achievements.. He is genius, abit different from hpy who might need years of practise and patch strats getting fixed. and he is being famous much earlier from decade ago in his career, when he got the WCG champ in 2009, this is the third champ of wcg got by CN player after Sky. Now at least two WCG champ, two WGL champ ,and one NEXT champ in his hand already.
@@emrickfilteau6288 infi said, in Sky period, that competition is much sharp and aggressive than now. most top shaped players training over 16hours a day, have a sport club analysis team behind studying the strats in new meta, around hundred of real professonal players around the globe competing. But now most players semi-retired, strats and meta is almost fixed, infi,TH,fly,120 etc earning more in streaming than tournaments(hpy tournament income mostly come from infi and 120, ted streaming fans) and have no motivation in training hard to compete for a petty amount prize of tournaments, surely the whole wc3 scene competitive level is dropping low. So its hard to compared hpy dominance level to Sky. U can just judge hpy performance 10 years ago, but at that time he got no real tier1 achievement untill recently in 2019, 2021 and this year.
I could see battle mages in the blood elf t2 or t3 being real badass. Can maybe have sorcs and priests rep on two races and have a spell changed for race specific moves. Bring back Sylvanis as a blood elf for a hero and add some legendary blood elf lore heros as the new heros. Plenty of material to make it happen, but one step at a time.
The 5th race is called: Wilds A specific set of creep units balanced stats of course. Workers could be: kobolds or gnolls T1 Unit: Zentaur, Zentaur archer, Gnoll or kobold Flying Unit: Harpy, drake. etc. Heroes: Gnoll warchief (str)(sticking to some wc3 lore), Zentaur Khan, (str) Kobold geomancer (int) and Zentaur Crossair (agi)
I think Wilds is too broad. Maybe specify it a bit by having Kalimdor Beasts and Lordaeron Beasts (so centaurs and quilboars on one side and gnolls and kobolds on the other.)
@@kimmydaisymaltese1111 Imo they should remove swim or just not cater to it too much and simply give shallow water generation to Naga buildings and have it function similar to creep. As is the current naga unit set isn’t balanced at all for multiplayer, balancing it to be even with the other 4 is already going to be a huge undertaking- that goes for any other new adds as well. At least Naga models and buildings are already rendered for the most part.
ooorrr..The human faction just stays as humans. There is literally zero reason the Dwarves are not an empire large enough to be their own faction. Except that blizzard hates them, of course.
@@Dwarfurious You can't use the word 'stays' when you want to change something. The Dwarves have always been part of the Alliance. Should it have been different from the start? Maybe, maybe not. But it shouldn't be changed now. The Human Alliance includes Blood Elves and Dwarves. The Orcish Horde includes Goblins, Jungle Trolls, and Tauren.
I like the respond of Infi about " should we help Blizzard to balance the game " The answer is typically chinese. Let the governement of blizzard do the thing :D
I understand why you edited out infi but it feels a little weird to go through this whole interview without hearing infi's voice. I haven't finished the video so if he does speak then I take it back.
Pls help explain how does this interview really work when infi doesnt talk its like grubby is speaking to the translator????? While infis only listening or may be watching porn
Doesn't Naga make the most sense since they have the most in game assets and models? I feel like after that it's burning legion or dranaei
Sad Sea Witch can't even swim in the competitive game but if she did, we'll never hear the end of dreadlord and demon hunter not being able to fly.
@@banditkeith6479 I mean DH only has wings in metamorphosis form but uh, I think the important thing is in the campaign you never see either of them fly. You see DL pop in and out of existence basically lol whereas Naga in the in game cut scenes and the cinematic are swimming. Not that it matters though because like there's not a lot of water maps with deep water.
@@lofasz3328 DH can walk on water though. Don't know why that's a thing. Still there are maps that has water making it an advantage for fast expansion and saving purchasing zeppelins.
@@banditkeith6479 are those maps in the ranked mode though? I feel as though they're not? Could be wrong though lol. He can only walk on water because of the whole power up from reign of chaos I'm guessing.
Blood elves + naga like in the latter blood elf campaign
Awesome to see Infi's point of view!
A lot of good points, yet I am a bit disappointed he doesn't give his full trust to the community stepping up for the future of wc3. Blizzard is much less trust worthy these days.
I want gobIins seeing they already have two heroes available but who's going to manage the shops when they are off in the playing field?
Murlocs :^)
Goblins will take the shop stuff . Endless heal scrolls .
As a Chinese I grew up with watching both Grubby and Infi play WC3, it's so wonderful to see both of them still playing after so many years.
Wow, very nice to get Infis view on a lot of things! Thanks for the opportunity.
wow amazing!
Happy,
Moon,
ToD,
Lyn,
next please?
Naga - Has a Tavern Hero. Already has most assets in the game. Needs complete rebalancing. Water walking discrepancy.
Goblins - Two available Tavern heroes. Goblin neutral units are potentially used. Lore issue with neutral goblin map pieces.
Draenei - Has a campaign hero (with reused abilities) and units. Unique buildings and potential playstyle. Potential balancing issues with stealth.
Demons - Has a Tavern Hero and potential heroes with Doomguard and Archimonde abilities. Orc warlock potentially used. Discrepancy issue with undead Dreadlord hero. Balance issues with chaos damage.
Quilboar/Centaur/Harpies/Ogres - Creep units and buildings available for reuse.
Blood-Elves - Potential campaign assets and conjoining with Naga. Potentially easiest to balance, or requires complete rework. Discrepancy whether human units/buildings would reused or shifting to be Blood-Elf exclusive.
so sweet,
Because of Infi's "recent" success against Happy back in 2020, when he crushed Happy 3-0 on LAN ping at Huya Super League, people think that he is a new player, but he is actually as old school as it gets. Like Grubby, he's been around since the inception and was already a veteran even back in 2010 when SC2 came out and many pros switched to that game. The difference is that Grubby was great from the start, while players like Infi and Happy took 10 years playing at the pro level to find their stride. When people say that Happy is the #1 player in the World, we need to be careful. There are tiers of pros. Happy is an S-tier pro, and the greatest Undead player of all times. But if you ask who is *the* best player in the World regardless of race, it is a really tough call between Happy, Infi and Lyn. Those are the 3 S-tier pros, and on a level above all other pros. Lyn recently showed his supremacy beating Happy 3-2 at TeD Cup Semi-Finals. Over the past 5 years, Lyn and Infi are the only 2 players to have defeated Happy on LAN ping(as fair as it gets). Moon is also at that level, but the problem with Moon is that he is a very fickle player who goes through phases. When he is in top shape and using his custom strategies, he is the greatest player of all times, like in 2007 when he went 40 tournament games against top pros without dropping a map. But when he is out of shape and unmotivated, he is like a 2000 MMR player. Just look what Happy did to him at DreamHack semi-final last year, beating him 3-0 without any game being very close. Recently, Moon beat Happy, too. So it depends. The 3 S-tier pros are Happy, Infi and Lyn, with Moon being S-tier in top shape, but high B-tier to A-tier when out of shape and uncreative.
Your knowledge of the top players is truly legendary
Infi said sky dominance was similar to happy dominance right now. Is that so?
@@emrickfilteau6288 Ask Grubby😁Sky had literally a 90% win rate against him. In all fairness, the Human Vs Orc matchup was severely imbalanced back in those days duie to the cost and armor of human towers. "Sky push" was invincible against Orc because there was no way to stop if with Orc tier-1 economy. Yes, people who think that Infi or TH are the greatest Human players ever say that because they were simply not around in 2004-2006. He was #1, #2 and #3 best player in the World for a couple of years. For dominance, only Sky 2005-2007 and Moon 2007 have dominated as Happy has now. In fact, it was Moon that finally put an end to Sky's almost 3 year long reign of terror in the 2 major Asian tournaments of 2007, crushing him wiith his weird strats and supreme macro control without dropping a map. Moon was in one of his slumps in late 2005 and only faced Sky on 2 games online and didn't even compete in many tournaments that year. Moon would come back a year and a half latter in his Fifth Race God mode and stomp Sky into the ground who up to that point had arouns a 95% win rate against other top pros and was deemed unstoppable.
When I said that Happy, Infi and Lyn are the 3 S-tier pros with Moon a honorable mention, I was talking about the past 5-6 years in WC3. If we are talking about the entire history of the game, then yes, Sky is undoubtedly the #1 greatest Human player ever and it's not even close. Infi deserves to be #2 and above TH even though I am more of a fan of TH because Infi did the impossible of beating Happy on LAN without dropping a map, and because in 2020 he also beat both Lyn and Happy in ELO ranking
For greatest of *all times* it's really a tough call between Happy, Lyn, Sky and Moon. We can only say that they are the greatest of their respective races. But deciding who is *the* G.O.A.T is hard because it is a rock-paper-scissor type of thing. Happy can dominate everybody, except for Lyn, who has a 73% win rate Vs Happy(Lyn truly is Happy's Kryptonite). And while Lyn goes 50/50 against Infi, back in the day he did just as poorly against Sky as Grubby. Moon loses badly to Happy, but he used to smash Sky and beats Lyn more often than not, too. Overall, the top #2 best of all times are Moon and Lyn. Lyn deserves to be in the top #2 of all times and above Happy because of the following. Lyn is the only player to have won both WCG and WGL, he has earned the #2 highest prize money ever, and he is the only player that consistently(more often than not) beats Happy who is the most dominant player of the past 6 years. As for Moon, he often loses to Happy, but he is #1 highest earner in WC3 history, has won more total tournaments than anyone else(literally 10 X more than Happy), and is the only player to never have slipped out of the top #10 since TFT came out in 2003. Also, even though Happy is more dominant now, Moon in 2007 had the strongest display of dominance ever, going almost a whole year without losing a single game in competition. Happy never achieved this degree of dominance. For skill *only* over the past 5 years, it's:
1. Lyn/Happy(difficult to pick one, because even though Lyn beat Happy almost 3 out of 4 games, Lyn loses to top Elves and Eer0 who Happy often beats)
2. Infi
3. Moon
For who is the most skillful WC3 player ever since the game came out in 2003:
1. Moon/Lyn(they both deserve it, and you really can't put one above the other. Lyn won more important tournaments than Moon, is more consistent in his greatness and often beats players Moon struggles against. Conversely, Moon has won more total tournaments than Lyn, beats Lyn more often than not even though he struggles against the players that Lyn beats, and has achieved a level of dominance that Lyn never has)
2. Sky. Most legendary run ever. Like Happy on steroids. Pioneered the aggressive use of towers and siege tactics. Nearly invincible from 2005 to 2007. Made top pros look like they didn't belong there with him. Had a win rate of 90% against top pros in tournaments. Insane.
3. Happy. Longer run of dominance than anybody, dominating since 2016, although not as extremely dominant as Moon and Sky were in their shorter runs. Happy deserves to be #3 ever at this point because his dominance for the past 5 years, which is a long period of time, against everyone except against Infi and Lyn. Although his dominance is not as extreme as Sky's was, it is lasting longer.
4. Grubby. I still put Grubby above Infi for all times great because Grubby is 1 of only 2 players ever to win WCG two times(the other is Sky). He was also able to go 50/50 against Lyn in his prime even though Lyn out-microed him. He was able to beat Lyn by being smarter and a better strategist. Probably the most intelligent player in the history of the game. Even Lyn watches his streams for ideas. Oh, he also beat Moon to win WCG in 2008, and that last game was arguably the last Orc Vs Elf game ever.
5. Infi. His accomplishments list is not that impressive compared to Lyn's and Moon's, but he has consistently been the best Human player for 10 years, and he is the only player to have defeated Happy on LAN 3-0, something that not even Lyn can claim(Lyn beats Happy more often than not, but he always loses at least one map). So Infi deserves to be #5 on this alone.
Most of the fans knew infi not Because he 3-0 hpy in 2019, Thats just a small step compared to his whole achievements.. He is genius, abit different from hpy who might need years of practise and patch strats getting fixed. and he is being famous much earlier from decade ago in his career, when he got the WCG champ in 2009, this is the third champ of wcg got by CN player after Sky. Now at least two WCG champ, two WGL champ ,and one NEXT champ in his hand already.
@@emrickfilteau6288 infi said, in Sky period, that competition is much sharp and aggressive than now. most top shaped players training over 16hours a day, have a sport club analysis team behind studying the strats in new meta, around hundred of real professonal players around the globe competing. But now most players semi-retired, strats and meta is almost fixed, infi,TH,fly,120 etc earning more in streaming than tournaments(hpy tournament income mostly come from infi and 120, ted streaming fans) and have no motivation in training hard to compete for a petty amount prize of tournaments, surely the whole wc3 scene competitive level is dropping low. So its hard to compared hpy dominance level to Sky. U can just judge hpy performance 10 years ago, but at that time he got no real tier1 achievement untill recently in 2019, 2021 and this year.
Sick interview
nice interview !
I would also love to see a Blood Elf and Naga faction .
I could see battle mages in the blood elf t2 or t3 being real badass. Can maybe have sorcs and priests rep on two races and have a spell changed for race specific moves. Bring back Sylvanis as a blood elf for a hero and add some legendary blood elf lore heros as the new heros. Plenty of material to make it happen, but one step at a time.
Big time Chad for bringing infi on. Huge.
Rly rly nice infi and grubby
I always thought the 5th race would be Naga
Too good
Seems like Infi had a telepathic to Nebulas for the great majority of the interview . . . .
I wish they add 2 race not only 1 so too keep game balance
Pick ban system is what I hopping for! More variety, more chance to add Blood elves, Naga and Outland
NAGA? NAGA ANYONE?!
Infi is one of the best.
His grasp of the overall macro is better than most.
Great interview! Maybe Moon/Sky/TH000/Fly for the next interview? That would be awesome!
Top 5 Wc3 all time infi moon sky happy and lyn or grubby. Great video grubby
If blizzard added Naga + blood elves as we've seen them a little bit in the campaign... this is going to be sick and breathe new life into the game.
It also needs changes to human. Or do the humans keep the Blood Mage. Spellbreakers and Dragonhawks?
NAGA, PLEASE WHY IS THIS A TOUGH DECISION?
I think the fifth race should be just nightelf but starting with 3 expos as a tribute to the real fifth race :D.
The 5th race is called: Wilds
A specific set of creep units balanced stats of course.
Workers could be: kobolds or gnolls
T1 Unit: Zentaur, Zentaur archer, Gnoll or kobold
Flying Unit: Harpy, drake. etc.
Heroes: Gnoll warchief (str)(sticking to some wc3 lore), Zentaur Khan, (str) Kobold geomancer (int) and Zentaur Crossair (agi)
I think Wilds is too broad. Maybe specify it a bit by having Kalimdor Beasts and Lordaeron Beasts (so centaurs and quilboars on one side and gnolls and kobolds on the other.)
5th race: Foliage
Your units can't move, but you have infinite wood. Basically Plants vs. Zombies if you play against Undead.
what about a race with shade and ghost :O
Blood Elves are similar to human army. I think Naga as a fifth race is great idea because Naga has the unique ability to cross water.
why not naga though? half the race is already done and doesn't mess with humans.
They should just add Naga/Elfs on a unranked versions
All Random tournament.
Should be a pick ban on tavern hero of picked race not entire race
I think Infi is my lost Brother. 🥺
Never Trust an Elf!
Blood Elves are already part of the Human faction, just like Dwarves are. A fifth race should definitely be Naga or alternatively Draenei or Daemon.
Naga can swim in water. It would be a nightmare to balance them out.
@@kimmydaisymaltese1111 Imo they should remove swim or just not cater to it too much and simply give shallow water generation to Naga buildings and have it function similar to creep. As is the current naga unit set isn’t balanced at all for multiplayer, balancing it to be even with the other 4 is already going to be a huge undertaking- that goes for any other new adds as well. At least Naga models and buildings are already rendered for the most part.
ooorrr..The human faction just stays as humans. There is literally zero reason the Dwarves are not an empire large enough to be their own faction. Except that blizzard hates them, of course.
@@kimmydaisymaltese1111
Naga Sea Witch already can't swim in water.
@@Dwarfurious
You can't use the word 'stays' when you want to change something. The Dwarves have always been part of the Alliance. Should it have been different from the start? Maybe, maybe not. But it shouldn't be changed now. The Human Alliance includes Blood Elves and Dwarves. The Orcish Horde includes Goblins, Jungle Trolls, and Tauren.
I like the respond of Infi about " should we help Blizzard to balance the game "
The answer is typically chinese. Let the governement of blizzard do the thing :D
so much trust in big brother
If you trust the community, then create a custom map with the 5th and 6th race. Only Blizzard can set a standard that everyone will agree to play.
Not last.
I understand why you edited out infi but it feels a little weird to go through this whole interview without hearing infi's voice. I haven't finished the video so if he does speak then I take it back.
A little bit, most stuff was edited out
fifth race should be naga
Pls help explain how does this interview really work when infi doesnt talk its like grubby is speaking to the translator????? While infis only listening or may be watching porn
Ok grubby edited the vdo taking out infi’s speaking part haha
It's naga. You may aswell go dwarf race. Then what is humans left with. Its naga. I can't belive a guy of wc3 prowess suggested blood elves.
I do not like infi👎
he's lame