I was about to buy a JBL Flip 6, saw my mate's new Charge 5 and was making up my mind when I bumped into this video - just bought the Beats Pill as it's the only one with lossless compatibility ❤
I have a Camo Charge 4, Black Charge 5, and Camo Flip 6. Charge 5 has more bass and sounds better than charge 4 and flip 6. That being said Flip 6 is way smaller and easier to take to work with you, or wherever. I still use all of them of course. Bought the black beats pill yesterday morning on sale along with the pink/rose gold solo 4 for my wife. Apparently The beats pill is more comparable to the Flip 6. Because of the price and size, as charge 5 is anywhere from 50 - 100 dollars more the pill. But pill is anywhere from 30 - 50 dollars more than Flip 6 pending where you purchase. My pill was 129 on sale. I love my JBL’s three different ones for different situations.
Listening on my pill rn, I think the pill sounds better imo cleaner highs JBL sounds muffled, little more bass deeper lows but the pill is pretty well balanced at low volume! They rlly made a good speaker im very happy with it! Especially with all the added benefits with iOS now! Beats is now Apple so there products all have amazing quality control and this is no exception! Looking forward to a larger model and whatever else they have to offer! Amazing review
I agree with the added clarity on the Pill versus the JBL. From my previous head to heads, it's almost as if the JBL and B&O A1 were merged together. Only place I can fault the Beats is that it does start distorting at higher volume settings, but that's playing VERY loud
The beats pill sounds pretty good but the charge 5 just has so much presence and crisp audio and ik that from personal experience as I have multiple jbls
While the 2024 Beats Pill has the advantage of recognition, the JBL is still, in my opinion, the winner. I will give Beat's new pill the nod for it's clarity in vocals and instrumentation. Actually impressive delivery from those speakers. JBL's resonators are a big variable to the experience, however. Adds more room for the bass to travel, making lower frequencies fill rooms easily.
I think it’s really about what kind of music you listen to, if it has more bass or electronic sound, I would go with the JBL but for more live performance and acoustic sound, I would go with Beats
One thing ive noticed after watching a few videos including this one is that the JBL and other competitors tend to focus more on deeper sounding bass where the beats pills always sounded clearer and focused a little more on highs as well, and this is why ill always choose a beats pill over any other portable speaker.
There is no way the beats pill would outperform the jbl in bass, it doesn't have a passive radiator, as for clarity both do a job, its just a matter of personal preference
I have both of these as im a collector. I love em both. Really cant go wrong with either. I believe the jbl charge has more power but it is bigger. The pill sounds impressive for the size. Alot better than the older versions. Very nice.
It's really great for traveling, small rooms and other indoor use, but for outdoor party you better bring big BT speaker to enjoy your listening. Think about your needs before buying.
@@Bravesplayyyyye it looks like a metal grill and rubber speaker🤣 What is premium exactly there? The jbl has just a fabric grill which btw is not scratchable like the beats. The sound is on par for earless people. The fact that the beats is somehow close is because they replicated jbl drivers in there🤣🤣
@@edensl8759 lmaooo I personally like the design for the beats better but it’s close. That being said I do think 149$ for the beats is not fully justified
Thx for the video, was wondering how this would stack up....although really also looking for your personal experience. What were your personal experiences listening to both of them. Pills sounds clearer indeed, but lacks some bass it seems. But don't know how the bass levels sound in real life. How are the balances good for both?
For an indoor setting, the Pill is my winner. Clearer and more detailed with more controlled bass. The JBL bass can become boomy at times as you can hear during certain tracks in the demo. For a setting like outdoors in a large field where you need maximum volume (and durability) I'd still lean towards the JBL
@@strong1134at longer runs it become heavier for your ears, at times it disturbs you, I own a charge 5 and when I bought the Beats I found the pill better than JBL....this does not take away the fact that Ch 5 is still a good speaker, but not good as Beats
in the long run it becomes heavier for your ears, sometimes is disturbing, I own Charge 5 from 2 years and when I bought and turned on the Beats, I found the pill sounding better than the JBL....this does not change the fact Chargr 5 is still a good speaker, but Beats has more controlled, accurate and textured bass while JBL is more esplosive. Phonichally talking, Beats is the best option for listening to music at home or in other closed spaces, JBL is better outside (Imo is still too heavy, maybe it's me idk😅)
I keep it neutral,Beats have a more flat EQ, so thats very good in sound appresation, more as its meant to sound, JBL has the perfect V curve that is not anoying, I thing these 2 are extremly good, I would prefer the Beats inside my house and the JBL outdoors.
@@LifestyleLab_ based on reality mate🤣🤣 in what world is the beats better even than the flip 6? With terrible tuning across volumes, no adjustable eq, copied drivers from jbl.
@@LifestyleLab_ so what is your claim on the charge 5 sounding worse exactly? The only reason to ever prefer thr beats over the charge 5 is a bad unit or a terrible hearing.....
@edensl8759 that's just not true though... I love the Charge 5, it beats out everything from UE, and B&O in the same price range. However, the new Pill has tighter more textured bass, and better detail and voicing in the treble to my ears (and many of the people in the comments as well). Both are great units, but unless maximum bass output is your only criteria, the Pill wins this head to head from a sound quality perspective
Man, you have amazing tools for sound recording!!! I have a question about Beats's battery life on almost 50% volume? :cause I never played it for so long, since my Charge 5's battery is awful
I have a video comparing the JBL to the B&O A1. The B&O wins out of all 3 for detail and realism, but it falls a bit too short in terms of bass output I think for most tastes. The new Beats Pill seems to be a middle ground between the Charge 5 and A1. A bit more detail than the Charge 5, and more bass than the A1, making it a good balanced presentation and my favourite to listen to out of the 3 in many situations
the bass of jbl is punchier than beats, but the vocals and instruments are too damn good in beats, its very surround. Tho the punch is what it lacks. But overall the 2 speakers are great
Yes, I think people are justified in wanting a native app to EQ the Beats for those who want a bit more thump. But overall I was very surprised with the Beats... didn't expect that from the brand
I’ve never encountered a jbl that didn’t have a blown out speaker or software/ electrical failure after the first year. Both of the charge s I had had left lown speakers. My brothers flip blown speaker . My mom’s jbl boombox just stopped turning on all together. And a friend of my cousin had one of the small ones and it sounded crackling… I no longer trust jbl for Bluetooth speakers at this point.
Just a different design. Most Bluetooth and bookshelf speakers don't have passive radiators. Pros and cons to each design. As you can hear here, it keeps up just fine, and the lack of radiator likely contributes to the tighter more agile bass
@@LifestyleLab_ I already don't like UE cz mostly they sound muddy in my ear. I've been doing music for long enough now and in my experience strong bass isn’t something I care of. I use marshall as an amp and it does it job just fine. But When I'm listening to Music I search for instrument separation, a warm sound signature and soundstages mostly. I was looking for a portable speaker and Marshall Emberton 2 is in my head. Should I consider Beats pill too?
@samirhossain9116 I haven't tried the Marshall, so tough for me to suggest one over the other, but in this price range the new Pillow is among the more balanced and detailed I've tried. Close second is the B&O A1, but it lacks the low end to be satisfying for some genres. My main listening setup is a pair of Paradigm Persona B and McIntosh MA252, so I'm no stranger to what good sound is :)
Tried to get a good range of options from the copyright free music we had. Let me know if there's any genres we missed that should be included in future tests!
i gotta say sumn the jbl is deeper in sound and bass obv but in person the beats pill sounds very good in person but i have 4 jbls for a reason it is better but the beats pill is rlly good aswell tbh
The beats pill has Shrill treble and recessed mid range vocals. The JBL sounds much fuller and has deeper bass. I have to agree with the rest of RUclips, the charge 5 sounds much better.
@@betelgeuse227 if you actually listen, you can hear more detail in the Beats. Certain things you can’t hear when the JBL plays. Like it’s muffled, not really, the beats just has better separation
@@dread8900 no, That is a recording issue, check alan ross charge 5 review, It sounds clear there, and the Beats pill considerjng it has way less bass depth and exagerated treble to sound "detailed" is very harsh and tinny, as where the charge remajns balanced
@betelgeuse227 this is what it sounds like in real life. This recording was done with a $1200 binaural microphone set. No issues there... lol. Frequency plots aren't everything. You can have a dead flat speaker with no detail or agility.
@@LifestyleLab_ no matter how good the mic is if you recording is disturbed your room, You can realy hear the Room induced mudiness on the vocal tracks, Record closer to the actual speaker, Thats how you get the sound
In this segment of Bluetooth speaker, the JBL always did reasonably well with clarity. See my comparison with the UE Megaboom 3 for example. But I agree, compared to the Beats Pill it sounds veiled and a bit bloated at times
Both quality speakers its a win win just preference not a clear winner to my ears jeez what’s the win here with the put downs. its a portable speaker not a luxury car. Consumerism run amok. Apple coming out with a good speaker makes JBL a better company not a worse one the insecurity on electronics is just weird.
Well Jbl charges tends to have mediocre high and Beat Pill tends to have mediocre low Charge good for hip hop/Rap This pill seems to be good in acoustic. The debate isn’t which one is better it’s more which one fit the best with my music taste. If you can’t find then take a Sony Xb-31
Just got the pill, comparing the two purely based off sound Charge 5 clears. However, in terms of everything else the Pill is better. Smaller, connectivity is a breeze on Apple TV, Macbook and iPhone. Charge 5 is like that one fat autistic kid that does one thing very well but falls short on other stuff.
JBL Charge 5: geni.us/Jdzq7NR
Beats Pill: geni.us/aA20p
(As an Affiliate I earn from qualifying purchases)
I was about to buy a JBL Flip 6, saw my mate's new Charge 5 and was making up my mind when I bumped into this video - just bought the Beats Pill as it's the only one with lossless compatibility ❤
Lossless is only vanish-c cable tho
@@ps_83 Not a problem to use the USB-C for me really, just tested it at my neighbour's BBQ
I have a Camo Charge 4, Black Charge 5, and Camo Flip 6.
Charge 5 has more bass and sounds better than charge 4 and flip 6. That being said Flip 6 is way smaller and easier to take to work with you, or wherever. I still use all of them of course.
Bought the black beats pill yesterday morning on sale along with the pink/rose gold solo 4 for my wife.
Apparently The beats pill is more comparable to the Flip 6. Because of the price and size, as charge 5 is anywhere from 50 - 100 dollars more the pill. But pill is anywhere from 30 - 50 dollars more than Flip 6 pending where you purchase.
My pill was 129 on sale.
I love my JBL’s three different ones for different situations.
Listening on my pill rn, I think the pill sounds better imo cleaner highs JBL sounds muffled, little more bass deeper lows but the pill is pretty well balanced at low volume! They rlly made a good speaker im very happy with it! Especially with all the added benefits with iOS now! Beats is now Apple so there products all have amazing quality control and this is no exception! Looking forward to a larger model and whatever else they have to offer! Amazing review
I agree with the added clarity on the Pill versus the JBL. From my previous head to heads, it's almost as if the JBL and B&O A1 were merged together. Only place I can fault the Beats is that it does start distorting at higher volume settings, but that's playing VERY loud
Guys listen, get the JBL charge 5, it’s the best portable speaker out rn 🔊
rn ,boom 2 is the king in that range@@Itsekotech
@aaronvarghese6955 Ou definitely disagree there. The Charge 5 even beats out the Megaboom. Check out our head to head of those two
@@LifestyleLab_ firsty try boom2 vs charge 5 then reply , or watch any videos u get the answer
The beats pill sounds pretty good but the charge 5 just has so much presence and crisp audio and ik that from personal experience as I have multiple jbls
The JBL is a killer speaker!
I have both. Here’s all you need to know… indoor speaker = beats pill. Outdoor speaker = charge 5.
Bingo
While the 2024 Beats Pill has the advantage of recognition, the JBL is still, in my opinion, the winner.
I will give Beat's new pill the nod for it's clarity in vocals and instrumentation. Actually impressive delivery from those speakers.
JBL's resonators are a big variable to the experience, however. Adds more room for the bass to travel, making lower frequencies fill rooms easily.
I think it’s really about what kind of music you listen to, if it has more bass or electronic sound, I would go with the JBL but for more live performance and acoustic sound, I would go with Beats
One thing ive noticed after watching a few videos including this one is that the JBL and other competitors tend to focus more on deeper sounding bass where the beats pills always sounded clearer and focused a little more on highs as well, and this is why ill always choose a beats pill over any other portable speaker.
There is no way the beats pill would outperform the jbl in bass, it doesn't have a passive radiator, as for clarity both do a job, its just a matter of personal preference
I have 2 Pills, 2 Bose Flex’s, and a Flip 6. The Pills are the best
Cap
🤣🤣
No 🧢
I have both of these as im a collector. I love em both. Really cant go wrong with either. I believe the jbl charge has more power but it is bigger. The pill sounds impressive for the size. Alot better than the older versions. Very nice.
It’s like there is something covering the JBL
I still have my pill xl Honestly, just hope they make an xl again
Amazing video!!! I would love to see the Sonos Roam vs beats pill 👌
It's really great for traveling, small rooms and other indoor use, but for outdoor party you better bring big BT speaker to enjoy your listening. Think about your needs before buying.
Vocals are impressive in the beats and that’s all I care about. Win for the beats.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Zero win for the beats
Even flip 6 is better sounding.
@@edensl8759wym? The beats looks more premium lol and the sound is on par with the jbl. Most of us aren’t audiophiles
@@Bravesplayyyyye it looks like a metal grill and rubber speaker🤣
What is premium exactly there? The jbl has just a fabric grill which btw is not scratchable like the beats. The sound is on par for earless people. The fact that the beats is somehow close is because they replicated jbl drivers in there🤣🤣
@@edensl8759 lmaooo I personally like the design for the beats better but it’s close. That being said I do think 149$ for the beats is not fully justified
Or just buy marshall for vocals 😂
Thx for the video, was wondering how this would stack up....although really also looking for your personal experience. What were your personal experiences listening to both of them. Pills sounds clearer indeed, but lacks some bass it seems. But don't know how the bass levels sound in real life. How are the balances good for both?
For an indoor setting, the Pill is my winner. Clearer and more detailed with more controlled bass. The JBL bass can become boomy at times as you can hear during certain tracks in the demo. For a setting like outdoors in a large field where you need maximum volume (and durability) I'd still lean towards the JBL
I was having my lunch as I listening to this video (not watching at the screen but my food) and honestly I couldn't tell which is which LOL
2:44 / 8:01
JBL Charge 5 has a more Basse
But bass of the Charge 5 is not good. It's just fun at the begin, after awhile you will regret about that bass.
@@nhanvo7189 can you explain more ?
@@strong1134at longer runs it become heavier for your ears, at times it disturbs you, I own a charge 5 and when I bought the Beats I found the pill better than JBL....this does not take away the fact that Ch 5 is still a good speaker, but not good as Beats
in the long run it becomes heavier for your ears, sometimes is disturbing, I own Charge 5 from 2 years and when I bought and turned on the Beats, I found the pill sounding better than the JBL....this does not change the fact Chargr 5 is still a good speaker, but Beats has more controlled, accurate and textured bass while JBL is more esplosive.
Phonichally talking, Beats is the best option for listening to music at home or in other closed spaces, JBL is better outside (Imo is still too heavy, maybe it's me idk😅)
I keep it neutral,Beats have a more flat EQ, so thats very good in sound appresation, more as its meant to sound, JBL has the perfect V curve that is not anoying, I thing these 2 are extremly good, I would prefer the Beats inside my house and the JBL outdoors.
Well said
No, Jbl is Flatter in measurments, Pill lacks Mid and deep bass And has the 1-2.5khz region boosted
Superb video! Both are good and better at various music. As I can’t decide I’ll get something different. Neither one is perfect.
Not a competition. Both cost the same if not more expensive on the beats, and the charge 5 is levels above in sound
Not based on this comparison 👀
@@LifestyleLab_ based on reality mate🤣🤣 in what world is the beats better even than the flip 6? With terrible tuning across volumes, no adjustable eq, copied drivers from jbl.
I'm just listening to the one I have in front of me... so this reality I guess...
@@LifestyleLab_ so what is your claim on the charge 5 sounding worse exactly? The only reason to ever prefer thr beats over the charge 5 is a bad unit or a terrible hearing.....
@edensl8759 that's just not true though... I love the Charge 5, it beats out everything from UE, and B&O in the same price range. However, the new Pill has tighter more textured bass, and better detail and voicing in the treble to my ears (and many of the people in the comments as well). Both are great units, but unless maximum bass output is your only criteria, the Pill wins this head to head from a sound quality perspective
Man, you have amazing tools for sound recording!!! I have a question about Beats's battery life on almost 50% volume? :cause I never played it for so long, since my Charge 5's battery is awful
Would you still go with the charge 5 for an outdoor setting?
Yes, I think so. It's capable of higher overall output with less distortion at the top end of the volume slider
@@LifestyleLab_ thanks, appreciate it
Thanks for making this video ! Would the beats pill compare to the Bang & Olufsen Beosound a1 or Beoplay P6 😃👍
I have a video comparing the JBL to the B&O A1. The B&O wins out of all 3 for detail and realism, but it falls a bit too short in terms of bass output I think for most tastes.
The new Beats Pill seems to be a middle ground between the Charge 5 and A1. A bit more detail than the Charge 5, and more bass than the A1, making it a good balanced presentation and my favourite to listen to out of the 3 in many situations
the bass of jbl is punchier than beats, but the vocals and instruments are too damn good in beats, its very surround. Tho the punch is what it lacks. But overall the 2 speakers are great
Yes, I think people are justified in wanting a native app to EQ the Beats for those who want a bit more thump. But overall I was very surprised with the Beats... didn't expect that from the brand
I’ve never encountered a jbl that didn’t have a blown out speaker or software/ electrical failure after the first year. Both of the charge s I had had left lown speakers. My brothers flip blown speaker . My mom’s jbl boombox just stopped turning on all together. And a friend of my cousin had one of the small ones and it sounded crackling… I no longer trust jbl for Bluetooth speakers at this point.
Question is did you download the jbl app and adjust the EQ or just run it out of the box.
This was on the default sound profile. I felt that was the most fair head to head. I will dive more into EQ range in an in depth review video
Where wondering where is the passive bass radiator located at pill?
There is no passive radiator on the pill, just one active bass driver
@@LifestyleLab_ how that will compete with JBL, Sony or Marshall? They all have active as well passive bass radiator!
Just a different design. Most Bluetooth and bookshelf speakers don't have passive radiators. Pros and cons to each design. As you can hear here, it keeps up just fine, and the lack of radiator likely contributes to the tighter more agile bass
@@LifestyleLab_ I already don't like UE cz mostly they sound muddy in my ear. I've been doing music for long enough now and in my experience strong bass isn’t something I care of. I use marshall as an amp and it does it job just fine. But When I'm listening to Music I search for instrument separation, a warm sound signature and soundstages mostly. I was looking for a portable speaker and Marshall Emberton 2 is in my head. Should I consider Beats pill too?
@samirhossain9116 I haven't tried the Marshall, so tough for me to suggest one over the other, but in this price range the new Pillow is among the more balanced and detailed I've tried. Close second is the B&O A1, but it lacks the low end to be satisfying for some genres.
My main listening setup is a pair of Paradigm Persona B and McIntosh MA252, so I'm no stranger to what good sound is :)
For me win pills
Nope
How ignorant do you have to be to reply "nope" to someone who literally started their comment with "FOR ME" ?!?!
Yup….
Thanx! That’s very informative! For me it’s beats) JBL to bassy, highs feels lost👎
The jbl has an EQ..
@@Tony_ChidiEbere I don’t need an EQ…
How about compare it to the BOSE soundlink mini 2? Instead of the flex
If I had a Bose Soundlink I would!
Hi, pelease vs Sonos Roam or JBL FLIP6
Beats is great in terms of sound and treble. When it comes to bass, JBL is great👍🏻
speakers aside, great song choice on the creator
Tried to get a good range of options from the copyright free music we had. Let me know if there's any genres we missed that should be included in future tests!
This is practically Apple vs Samsung (Samsung owns Harman Kardon) , i'll go for JBL better bass and mid-lows.
If you're bass-hungry, the JBL is a good choice. Possibly even consider something from UE, even more impact.
Beats pill sounds way better & nice balanced sound, as I own a new Beats pill speaker & the pill rocks out some tunes!!🙂🔊🙂🔊
honestly, if I heard them in real life and thought they sound very similar, i'm picking the beats purely for the aesthetics
i gotta say sumn the jbl is deeper in sound and bass obv but in person the beats pill sounds very good in person but i have 4 jbls for a reason it is better but the beats pill is rlly good aswell tbh
I want to buy the pill but I’ve not made the purchase yet thanks for the making my mind up ahahaha 😂
Glad it was helpful!
Jbl has good bass but the equalizers hasn’t be set proper
Beats pill sounds great from 1 to like 70% volume then goes to crap
the pill sounds much better overall and less boomy
Good of both speaker 🔊
Bass better - JBL charge 5
Sound luxury - Beats Pill
** Depends on you love design & brand **😊
Why even compare these two models, it should be pill vs jbl flip or Bose flex or Marshall Emberton
Because they're in the same price bracket.
Have coffee tools finished for you?😂
No, just quietly posting some other stuff 😉
Not published to the main subscribers feed
@@LifestyleLab_ need to review new atom W75
@mryoyo7741 Love the Atoms, but they're obviously very commercial focused
@@LifestyleLab_ i like the features thinking to buying one. But yes for commercial used more. But what can do
charge five on top😊
The beats pill has Shrill treble and recessed mid range vocals. The JBL sounds much fuller and has deeper bass. I have to agree with the rest of RUclips, the charge 5 sounds much better.
Preferences! :)
The JBL is a fantastic speaker
Beats: Sound Quality
JBL: Bass
No, Charge 5 is more accurate to the actual track
@@betelgeuse227 if you actually listen, you can hear more detail in the Beats. Certain things you can’t hear when the JBL plays. Like it’s muffled, not really, the beats just has better separation
@@dread8900 no, That is a recording issue, check alan ross charge 5 review, It sounds clear there, and the Beats pill considerjng it has way less bass depth and exagerated treble to sound "detailed" is very harsh and tinny, as where the charge remajns balanced
@betelgeuse227 this is what it sounds like in real life. This recording was done with a $1200 binaural microphone set. No issues there... lol. Frequency plots aren't everything. You can have a dead flat speaker with no detail or agility.
@@LifestyleLab_ no matter how good the mic is if you recording is disturbed your room, You can realy hear the Room induced mudiness on the vocal tracks, Record closer to the actual speaker, Thats how you get the sound
Both wins
JBL Won
Apple really let the Bass go from the Beats line
It let the default EXAGGERATED base go. You can still EQ to your hearts content
@@LifestyleLab_so can it still have bass just as good as the jbl with custom eq settings?
@L9ie Yes, definitely
@@LifestyleLab_ everyone says you can’t change the settings on the pill
@gwvaio not through the native app (yet)
Beats Pill👍
Beats Pill it’s water resistant, not water proof. JBL wins
They are both IP67 rated, same certification. 3 feet for 30 minutes
Beats Pill 💊 is better JBL has more muddy sound due to higher bass, misses species sound and mid range
Beats pill 🎉❤
Charge 5 has deeper bass
La pila suena mejor
JBL sounds like it does in Toyotas. crappy. too much bass with no focus on mids or highs
In this segment of Bluetooth speaker, the JBL always did reasonably well with clarity. See my comparison with the UE Megaboom 3 for example. But I agree, compared to the Beats Pill it sounds veiled and a bit bloated at times
charge 5 wins , go sleep apple fanboys
🙄
Why are you so pressed, genuinely it’s lowkey sad
@thingythingy9507 it very odd how some people tie themselves so strongly to (or against) certain brands. Just use what you like 🤷🏻♂️
Both quality speakers its a win win just preference not a clear winner to my ears jeez what’s the win here with the put downs. its a portable speaker not a luxury car. Consumerism run amok. Apple coming out with a good speaker makes JBL a better company not a worse one the insecurity on electronics is just weird.
Well Jbl charges tends to have mediocre high and Beat Pill tends to have mediocre low
Charge good for hip hop/Rap
This pill seems to be good in acoustic.
The debate isn’t which one is better it’s more which one fit the best with my music taste. If you can’t find then take a Sony Xb-31
Just got the pill, comparing the two purely based off sound Charge 5 clears.
However, in terms of everything else the Pill is better.
Smaller, connectivity is a breeze on Apple TV, Macbook and iPhone.
Charge 5 is like that one fat autistic kid that does one thing very well but falls short on other stuff.
Pill better
Beats pill have more deep bass
Wait for the charge 6
pill sound like TRIBIT XSOUND GO😊
Win Beats!!!!
Beats Pill 2024 is better than JBL Charge 5
Put some real music nobody listens to this corny songs on them speakers
I shuffled through like 8 different genres. What would you like to be added to future head to heads that's missing?