thank goodness to hear someone who knows what they are doing. number of arguments I have had with our FM dept over the years that visual inspection was the only tests they could do on a 2 core plug for a laptop.
As someone who has just started up PAT testing and have just done my first 2 jobs I find your videos extremely beneficial and would like to say thanks. Yes you learn on the course but that is a classroom and not the real world. I will keep watching your vids . Thanks Ben
In the same boat Steve. Just literally done the course on Monday. You think you've got your head round it all until you get out there! Everydays a school day. All the best with it. Videos are excellent thanks for that CPT. Keep up the great work
@@macmerc1556 I had a laugh last week. I still work 3 days a week for someone and he had the PAT tester in last week. Took him about an hour to do 65 items plus all plug sockets plus microwave and it cost my boss nearly £250 and he admitted he wasn't even qualified and the company he worked for told him he had to get his ticket within 6 months. I watched for a while and he didn't do most of it correctly. Makes a mockery of insurance companies saying "You must use these to get PAT testing done"
The cord is a convenience for the manufacturer and the consumer. The manufacture can get the distributors in each country to source there own power cord for their country, so the manufacturer can delete this part if the assembly, if you come across a Fig8 cord, ask for the device or appliance it belongs to, and plug it in to the appliance and do a Class 2 test on the appliance the cord came with.
This was useful. Although I don't think you said so in the video, I checked what PAT testing machines do for the RISO test and they short live and neutral together and then apply the 500V (or 250V if you're operating at reduced voltage for a surge-protected appliance) between the live/neutral (now electrically one) and earth. I understand that's the standard, meaning all PAT testing machines work that way. I didn't previously know that, though it makes sense and also supports your conclusion. Similar logic applies to something I've been puzzling over, which is those shaver adapters that convert from standard 3-pin male to 2-pin female for shavers and some toothbrushes.
I've always visually checked the fig 8 cable but then used it to test whatever appliance its for as a class 2 so it checks both because you need to test the appliance. What's your thoughts 🤔
You could do a resistance test on the individual conductors. If there is a difference then that could be a faulty conductor or connection, both conductor wires are about the same length and cross section indicating the same resistances. I would test from the conductor side of the fuse to be sure.
You certainly could but that type of test is not something a Pat tester is ordinarily trained to do. Nor is it a test recommended in the code of practice.
The Fig8 cord is a convenience for the appliance manucturers and the consumers. The appliance manufacturers can get the distributor in each country to source cords for their country, and the factory can delete the install of a hard wired cord for each corner of the globe, and 2 the consumer can replace a chewed cord etc. If you come across a Fig8 cord, ask for the appliance it came with, and test the appliance plugged in as a class 2. If they dont have the appliance, and its a spare, ask them for which appliance, and plug it in do a test and use the same id with 'SPR' on the front or end and Tag it!
I personally test it as class two by plugging the BS1363 plug into my tester and the other end into the fig of 8 adaptor (like what you have shown in the video) and then into the iec port and then select class two test, I was advised to test this way by the manufacturer of my machine, but to also put more emphasis on the FVI and log it in the Notes/Comments. When I done my City & Guilds 2377 I was instructed to do a FVI and test a figure of eight lead (if on it's own) as class two and either leave the earth test lead off or clip it onto or near the end of the fig 8 lead. I don't really see the point of this but I do test them now as I previously stated above, as I can not just enter a FVI on my test report without carrying out a test on the tester, (it's just the way the software works on my machine), I then just make any notes or comments in that section on the test report.
I do see what you are saying but as I mention in the video the Figure 8 adaptors in my video are completely useless and in some situations dangerous. By plugging one into your Figure 8 cable and then running a class 2 test your machine is testing for absolutely nothing - I'm afraid your manufacturer has advised you incorrectly. What machine are you using? Are you not able to log just a visual inspection like you can on the Apollo range of testers?
@@caterhampattesting No it won't let me as I'm using a Memory PAT Blu with the phone app, so you have to press a physical test button to get it to ping the test over to the app on the phone, then you can add FVI and put a comment in the notes. I also use a Primetest 250 along side the MemoryPAT Blu to do the same sort of thing for the portable RCD test, I have to do a class one earth continuity test on the MemoryPAT and then add in the notes/comments the RCD trip time
An insulation Resistance test is checking that there is no short between the conductors. You could do an insulation resistance test between the line and neutral conductor.
you are partly correct. the PAT test machine is checking that there is no leakage to earth. if there is no external metal parts or earth conductor then your pat tester isn't looking for anything.
You can bridge the fig8 end and do a low ohms reistance test up and down both conductors, that will verify it's ability to carry the current rated on the fuse.
There is no need as what are you actually testing it for. If the cable is rated for the fuse fitted then just a visual inspection to confirm this is required.
@@caterhampattesting For pat testing then yes, not needed. It's a good test for a diagnostic technician on a potentially broken cable, signal or power.
This is not a figure 8 cable, but only a figure 8 plug. The cable is double insulated. Figure 8 cable generally is not double insulated and hence might not fit the class of appliances of your country that can pass a PAT test.
That doesn’t make sense? You say the cable is double insulated and then you say generally it isn’t double insulated? Fig 8 cable is generally the term that is used the same IEC cable or extension cable. And of course the cable / flex is double insulated? It has the inner coloured cores and then a PVC outer hence making it double insulated.
c7 to c13 adaptor the do manual tests for. Or plug into an appliance and do class II test. Or use adaptor the manual tests. Also in my opinion if a person PAT testing pugs a class II lead into a C13 adapter the plugs that into Class I then he should not be doing electrical testing, in the field is not the practice ground that’s how to kill.
Hi, Agree regards visual only check on the lead, but regards to the items it powers i,e cd players, sewing machines etc you still plug it into the item and run class 2 test to test the actual item as be making a circuit round using the item ?? or im i thinking wrong ? thank you
on a class 1 test yes, which is why on a double insulated appliance it is looking for any leakage through exposed metal parts that the test probe would pick up on.
not saying your wrong, but if the insulation resistance is only measured against leakage to the earth wire, then what is the point of testing any class 2 item ? is the test current not put just down the live wire so it can be tested for leakage to the neutral wire also ?
So you can only carry out an insulation resistance test on items with exposed metal parts. You should be connecting your test probe to the item and then your machine will be looking for any current leakage through the test probe. For items of all plastic construction ie a Henry hoover or a 2 core double insulated cable such as in the video then there is nowhere to connect your test probe to. Therefore these items can only be a visual check only.
@@caterhampattesting thanks for the reply, I have ben testing all plastic class 2 items for the last 3 years for no reason then ha ha, I did think it was probably a waste of time plugging in phone chargers and things like AC adapters for things like low powered piano key boards, oh well it will speed up the proses just doing a visual inspection from now on.
Yes I mention in the video about completing a full visual inspection. Not sure what you mean by live/neutral continuity but you can’t check that via your PAT test machine
Folks, do not rely on this video, as it is quite misleading. It depends on what test machine you are using. Even a basic Megger that has a low ohms as well as high scale would allow testing of conductor continuity resistance of less than 1 ohm to be tested and also insulation resistance (>1Meg). My preferred tester is my older Seaward PT200 as it has low and high ohms positions, and scales, so it will do this test with ease. Too bad that Seaward no longer makes that device. I would not allow this person to do Test & Tag testing on any of the equipment that I manage, too many assumptions and also maybe why he doesn't do the tests that can be done.
Please tell me how it is misleading? I’m guessing you are not in the UK? And also, please explain what test can actually be done on a 2 core fig 8 lead?
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thank goodness to hear someone who knows what they are doing. number of arguments I have had with our FM dept over the years that visual inspection was the only tests they could do on a 2 core plug for a laptop.
Glad the video was of help! You can show the video to your FM team?
@@caterhampattesting definitely will. Not a spark but I could never figure out how they could test the earth on a device with no earth!
As someone who has just started up PAT testing and have just done my first 2 jobs I find your videos extremely beneficial and would like to say thanks. Yes you learn on the course but that is a classroom and not the real world. I will keep watching your vids . Thanks Ben
Great to hear!
In the same boat Steve. Just literally done the course on Monday. You think you've got your head round it all until you get out there! Everydays a school day. All the best with it. Videos are excellent thanks for that CPT. Keep up the great work
@@macmerc1556 I had a laugh last week. I still work 3 days a week for someone and he had the PAT tester in last week. Took him about an hour to do 65 items plus all plug sockets plus microwave and it cost my boss nearly £250 and he admitted he wasn't even qualified and the company he worked for told him he had to get his ticket within 6 months. I watched for a while and he didn't do most of it correctly. Makes a mockery of insurance companies saying "You must use these to get PAT testing done"
The cord is a convenience for the manufacturer and the consumer. The manufacture can get the distributors in each country to source there own power cord for their country, so the manufacturer can delete this part if the assembly, if you come across a Fig8 cord, ask for the device or appliance it belongs to, and plug it in to the appliance and do a Class 2 test on the appliance the cord came with.
This was useful. Although I don't think you said so in the video, I checked what PAT testing machines do for the RISO test and they short live and neutral together and then apply the 500V (or 250V if you're operating at reduced voltage for a surge-protected appliance) between the live/neutral (now electrically one) and earth. I understand that's the standard, meaning all PAT testing machines work that way. I didn't previously know that, though it makes sense and also supports your conclusion. Similar logic applies to something I've been puzzling over, which is those shaver adapters that convert from standard 3-pin male to 2-pin female for shavers and some toothbrushes.
I've always visually checked the fig 8 cable but then used it to test whatever appliance its for as a class 2 so it checks both because you need to test the appliance. What's your thoughts 🤔
You could do a resistance test on the individual conductors. If there is a difference then that could be a faulty conductor or connection, both conductor wires are about the same length and cross section indicating the same resistances. I would test from the conductor side of the fuse to be sure.
You certainly could but that type of test is not something a Pat tester is ordinarily trained to do. Nor is it a test recommended in the code of practice.
The Fig8 cord is a convenience for the appliance manucturers and the consumers.
The appliance manufacturers can get the distributor in each country to source cords for their country, and the factory can delete the install of a hard wired cord for each corner of the globe, and 2 the consumer can replace a chewed cord etc.
If you come across a Fig8 cord, ask for the appliance it came with, and test the appliance plugged in as a class 2.
If they dont have the appliance, and its a spare, ask them for which appliance, and plug it in do a test and use the same id with 'SPR' on the front or end and Tag it!
Are you in the UK? It sounds like you might be in Australia?
We have a few sewing machines using these figure 8's and a couple using the GST18's (all connected to a 'string' of power packs) in a cable tray.
I personally test it as class two by plugging the BS1363 plug into my tester and the other end into the fig of 8 adaptor (like what you have shown in the video) and then into the iec port and then select class two test, I was advised to test this way by the manufacturer of my machine, but to also put more emphasis on the FVI and log it in the Notes/Comments.
When I done my City & Guilds 2377 I was instructed to do a FVI and test a figure of eight lead (if on it's own) as class two and either leave the earth test lead off or clip it onto or near the end of the fig 8 lead.
I don't really see the point of this but I do test them now as I previously stated above, as I can not just enter a FVI on my test report without carrying out a test on the tester, (it's just the way the software works on my machine), I then just make any notes or comments in that section on the test report.
I do see what you are saying but as I mention in the video the Figure 8 adaptors in my video are completely useless and in some situations dangerous. By plugging one into your Figure 8 cable and then running a class 2 test your machine is testing for absolutely nothing - I'm afraid your manufacturer has advised you incorrectly.
What machine are you using? Are you not able to log just a visual inspection like you can on the Apollo range of testers?
@@caterhampattesting No it won't let me as I'm using a Memory PAT Blu with the phone app, so you have to press a physical test button to get it to ping the test over to the app on the phone, then you can add FVI and put a comment in the notes.
I also use a Primetest 250 along side the MemoryPAT Blu to do the same sort of thing for the portable RCD test, I have to do a class one earth continuity test on the MemoryPAT and then add in the notes/comments the RCD trip time
i do agree with you. Just visual inspection. very useful informative video. Thank you.
An insulation Resistance test is checking that there is no short between the conductors. You could do an insulation resistance test between the line and neutral conductor.
you are partly correct. the PAT test machine is checking that there is no leakage to earth. if there is no external metal parts or earth conductor then your pat tester isn't looking for anything.
@@caterhampattesting you could youse a multifunction tester to check between line and neutral to obtain this result.
Hello what is the smaller version of that c7 cable called that can fit in small double holes
You can bridge the fig8 end and do a low ohms reistance test up and down both conductors, that will verify it's ability to carry the current rated on the fuse.
There is no need as what are you actually testing it for. If the cable is rated for the fuse fitted then just a visual inspection to confirm this is required.
@@caterhampattesting For pat testing then yes, not needed. It's a good test for a diagnostic technician on a potentially broken cable, signal or power.
This is not a figure 8 cable, but only a figure 8 plug. The cable is double insulated. Figure 8 cable generally is not double insulated and hence might not fit the class of appliances of your country that can pass a PAT test.
That doesn’t make sense? You say the cable is double insulated and then you say generally it isn’t double insulated?
Fig 8 cable is generally the term that is used the same IEC cable or extension cable.
And of course the cable / flex is double insulated? It has the inner coloured cores and then a PVC outer hence making it double insulated.
c7 to c13 adaptor the do manual tests for. Or plug into an appliance and do class II test. Or use adaptor the manual tests. Also in my opinion if a person PAT testing pugs a class II lead into a C13 adapter the plugs that into Class I then he should not be doing electrical testing, in the field is not the practice ground that’s how to kill.
As my video explained, only a visual inspection is required on a figure 8 cable.
Really interesting video
Thanks Neil
Hi, Agree regards visual only check on the lead, but regards to the items it powers i,e cd players, sewing machines etc you still plug it into the item and run class 2 test to test the actual item as be making a circuit round using the item ?? or im i thinking wrong ? thank you
yes absolutely. test the item as per class 2 guidelines. please see my other video on testing a class 2 item
@@caterhampattesting that’s great thank you confirming that
Thanks
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4:30 'An insulation resistance test is looking for any leakage to earth.' Is it?
on a class 1 test yes, which is why on a double insulated appliance it is looking for any leakage through exposed metal parts that the test probe would pick up on.
not saying your wrong, but if the insulation resistance is only measured against leakage to the earth wire, then what is the point of testing any class 2 item ? is the test current not put just down the live wire so it can be tested for leakage to the neutral wire also ?
So you can only carry out an insulation resistance test on items with exposed metal parts. You should be connecting your test probe to the item and then your machine will be looking for any current leakage through the test probe.
For items of all plastic construction ie a Henry hoover or a 2 core double insulated cable such as in the video then there is nowhere to connect your test probe to. Therefore these items can only be a visual check only.
@@caterhampattesting thanks for the reply, I have ben testing all plastic class 2 items for the last 3 years for no reason then ha ha, I did think it was probably a waste of time plugging in phone chargers and things like AC adapters for things like low powered piano key boards, oh well it will speed up the proses just doing a visual inspection from now on.
@@650GSF luckily the test on the machine is only a small part of the test really(and should be the quickest part too).
You can check fuse rating, Live/ Neutral continuity ...
Yes I mention in the video about completing a full visual inspection. Not sure what you mean by live/neutral continuity but you can’t check that via your PAT test machine
@@caterhampattesting Using Multimeter and measure continuity of N and L, is this considered visual?
@@mohammedshalash7842 there would be no need to use a multimeter. a functional check as per the code of practice would suffice.
@@caterhampattesting Thanks
Folks, do not rely on this video, as it is quite misleading. It depends on what test machine you are using. Even a basic Megger that has a low ohms as well as high scale would allow testing of conductor continuity resistance of less than 1 ohm to be tested and also insulation resistance (>1Meg). My preferred tester is my older Seaward PT200 as it has low and high ohms positions, and scales, so it will do this test with ease. Too bad that Seaward no longer makes that device. I would not allow this person to do Test & Tag testing on any of the equipment that I manage, too many assumptions and also maybe why he doesn't do the tests that can be done.
Please tell me how it is misleading? I’m guessing you are not in the UK? And also, please explain what test can actually be done on a 2 core fig 8 lead?
Very interested to hear your response?
Is this 1 m?
1.5 metre i think
Ok thanks
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