portal 2 is my favourite example of a silent protagonist, since the characters that do speak fall into one of 3 categories: pre-recorded voice (cave johnson, turrets, etc), actively acknowledge silence (wheatley, glados), and So In Their Own World They Don't Even Process It (corrupted cores, wheatley (he's i n2 categories don't worry about it)) cave johnson's pre-recorded messages serve to give information, which is pretty standard glados prefers that you don't talk so she can make fun of you, but still sees the silence as dangerous (source: exit interview speech before credits) wheatley knows you don't speak but is too busy talking to give you a chance to speak anyway corrupted cores ramble endlessly, even more than wheatley idk i just think it's neat
I'm fine with silent protagonists. I'm not fine with emotionless protagonists. If something happens in a scene that is shocking or sad or exciting but the character just stands there with a plain look on their face it rips me right out of the experience.
first thing that came to mind is the pokemon games. when they started doing 3D, they have in-game cutscenes where the player character just has the same expression. they DO express as expected in the high poly model cutscenes, but its weird they couldnt be bothered to make an extra face texture or 2 for the player character to use in the lower detail scenes.
@@CyberBlastoise yeah its far more common to see in those games. i still remember the demo version where the dragon of the region runs up on you and the character just has a big smile on their face while having the body langugae of somebody is a bit startled by the giant monster running right at them😆
When you're choosing a dialogue option like with BotW or Persona, I actually WAY prefer if the protagonist doesn't talk. Not only does having the character voice a line I already read waste time and feel redundant, but you potentially run into problems like Fallout 4 where the delivery sometimes doesn't match what you might've expected. In cutscenes and stuff tho, I'm generally in favor of having them speak, especially if there's voice acting.
i think that like, there's different divides between silent characters. Sometimes the text is implied, sometimes it's just unvoiced, and a few times they're canonically mute or taking a vow of silence. i feel like the distinction's important.
But when it comes to mute protagonists, there has to be a reason for them to be mute. I think Chel from Portal is boring for that reason. As far as I know, there’s no obvious reason for being mute. Whatever the reason is, I played a Portal-like game called Entropy Centre and the protagonist and Entropy gun talk with each other a lot. I would’ve liked to see banter between Wheatley, Chel, and GLaDOS
If the character you play as is a fully customizable character, like in an rpg like Elder Scrolls or Fallout, then I believe they should be silent so you could better immerse yourself. But if they're a predetermined character, like P5 Joke for example, then let them talk. I feel like there's already a disconnect in immersion in a game when you're using a predetermined character that you rarely ever hear talk. Still on the topic of Persona, I feel like Atlus kinda feels the same way. When Persona 5 first came out, he was just Joker, an avatar for the player. But with all the adaptations of P5 since, he's his own character now, Ren Amamiya. He's fully voiced in the anime adaptations, he's fully voiced in that weird Persona 5 Phantom X spinoff, etc. It just makes me think they're holding on to the silent protagonist as a traditional thing now, considering they justify all of their silent protagonists with canonical names and personalities later on. They become less and less of an avatar the more time passes, to the point where it takes me out of the game when the voiced dialogue always refers to Ren as "this guy". They might as well establish the characger from the start, and justify them having a flexible personality to prevent oddly out of character moments I don't know if my point really got across lol, I'm just kinda rambling tbh.
After playing Soul Hackers II and Fire Emblem: Engage, I'm convinced RPGs work wayyyyy better with voiced protagonists especially during dialogue options and cutscenes. Using those two as an example, I don't actually think it matters what the character is like, as long as they act rationally. Like female Alear from FE is a total sweetheart who believes anything is possible. And Ringo from SH is a sassy aloof brat with a heart of gold. They both absolutely blow Joker and Byleth out of the water. However I believe that during gameplay the main character needs to shush because that's when the player is in the role. As we saw in Horizon Zero Dawn 2 and Subnautica: Below Zero which annihilated immersion.
I absolutely hate it when your character comments on the gameplay. You're hiding in the tall grass and the character is like "that should give me enough cover". Yeah, no shit, that's why I directed you there.
5:33 i will say in the case of botw and totk i really think he's SUPPOSED to be awkwardly stoic because that's the version of the character they wrote, and it would be a quite significant change in characterisation if he wasn't, like, i'm sure it'd be a fine choice, but also then you've just invented a totally different character than the one who actually appears in those games like the fact that he stands there in certain cutscenes and just doesn't say anything is like. yeah it feels awkward, but if you're around someone who's like very limitedly verbal or non-verbal in real life and doesn't emote much on their face, that's kind of how it actually feels, and that's like the kind of character he is
yeah botw/totk is interesting because he's in this awkward middle ground. He has a defined character in things like the external books, the quest log in Japanese, Zelda and Daruk's diary, etc... but they don't allow him to speak or show huge obvious expressions in cutscenes. He actually does have facial animation in some scenes that people think he doesn't, but you have to zoom in or go frame by frame to see them
@@kit76149 some people are like that though so i think it's just meant to be what he's like !! the team is clearly capable of doing otherwise if they wanted to based on past examples
I agree with ya here. This is why I love the Chrono Trigger ending "Reunion" because he talks a little bit there. I wish the whole game had him throw small bits of dialogue in here and there.
Imo, Honkai Star Rail does the silent protagonist well. At first, they're very quiet, but when it comes to things like side quests or character diologue, they give you the ability to give your character more personality and you see a side to that character you weren't expecting. And the humor of the game works well with it. It never fully takes itself too seriously, so there are moments where the protagonist can really shine as a character, whether it be making easy to understand pop culture references or the protagonist just straight up calling out a character for being cringe. These characters really need to have more personality and Star Rail shows it is possible.
In the Persona 5 Animation, the anime adaptation of Persona 5, Joker does, in fact, speak. They couldn't get around it when it came to the animated adaptation. As far as the Zelda live action movie is concerned, unfortunately Link will also be speaking. Movie and anime adaptations are very hard to keep their protagonists silent. They can't really get around it as it's a different kind of media.
Funnily enough not the first time that has happened P4 arena had yu talking a lot mostly because he isn’t the main character of the game and it would just be weird for him to just stand their and not say something
It depends for me. Some silent protagonists are okay. One I am okay with is GTAIII, where all we need to know about Claude is that he was betrayed and is out for vengeance, plain and simple. However, when it comes to a silent protagonist Isaac Clarke in the original "Dead Space," it feels jarring that the protagonist does not react to the horror, compounded that the game introduces a personal element to the character, that being Nicole, the love interest. There is a disconnect when Isaac does not even interact with Nicole at all, and you would think that he would say something to someone near and dear to him.
The Zelda series has done this thing where it's implied you are speaking to the NPCs so they always react quickly to whatever task the game wants you to complete. I wish Link pantomimed a little more because the dialogue choices in BotW/TotK reveal that he is much sassier than the game shows us. As for silent protagonists overall I tend to prefer them over a poorly voiced protagonist or one that talks too much.
The flashback cutscenes sure don't show Link as being sassy, even though he really should. He just stands there while Zelda badmouths him while the audience is wondering when he'll exclaim "Well *_EXCUUUUUSE_* me, Princess!"
@@otaking3582well of course he's not going to be sassy with the princess or other important characters. Anyways, since the game tells you that he stopped talking when he found out about his destiny as the hero due to stress and pressure, I have the theory that when he wakes up after 100 years and losing his memories, he's just himself again. He may remember some stuff and others tell him about his past and responsibiilities but he probably feels less conection to all that and acts more like the teen he is, having fun while shield sliding and sometimes playing around a little with NPCs. By losing his memories he regained part of his personality that he repressed in the past
So where was this "sassiness" when Zelda was being a bitch to him in BotW, or when Urbosa was telling him what his duty is, shortly after Zelda was a bitch to him?
@@NorthSutherland the best stuff is found talking to the NPCs but if you need sparknotes this thread is a good place the start: x.com/uukhanu/status/1779564504394650071
Kris is a good example of this,they are there own person but are controlled by somebody,even though they are slient,they where like that before and Kris is still a interesting character and proves you don't have to talk to be good. I'm happy for slient protags,just don't make them emotionaless unless they are a self insert.
There is the silent protagonist, and there is Tav from Baldur's Gate 3. The main character of Baldur's Gate 3 does not have the dialogue made from choices spoken out loud, but they pretty much have their very own personality- the one player chooses to give them. It's supposed to simulate D&D, and it does an incredible job at that. The player's choice impacts pretty much everything in the story, and it's the most complex and the best solution to the Silent Protagonist problem
It's a case-by-case basis, so I'm going to give my thoughts on a few examples. BOTW/TOTK - I disagree with you here and I think Link being silent is part of the game's mystery vibe. Because he doesn't talk, it leaves you wondering and speculating how he feels when certain things happen (e.g. when Link finds out the plot twist of TOTK - I won't spoil but you know the one). We wouldn't be constantly debating whether Zelink is canon or not if Link was speaking his mind, and I think the game would lose some charm. Dragon Quest 11 - Yeah, this could definitely do with having the MC speak. The writing is very awkwardly dancing around the fact that he doesn't speak and it sometimes even breaks the fourth wall because of it. Just let him speak lol. Persona 5 - I wouldn't even qualify Joker as a silent protag. He does speak in some cutscenes and I perceive the dialog options as him speaking aswell. Since you're already reading the options in your head before you select them, I feel like it would upset the flow of the dialog if he were to repeat it out loud after you select them. Yakuza - Doesn't have a silent protag and is a good example of how a game can work well if you fully flesh out a video game protagonist and drop the notion of them being a self-insert for the player. Kiryu and the other protags are very cool characters with a lot of depth, and that wouldn't be possible with a silent protag.
We see more of Link's thoughts in the japanese version. They were just unfortunately taken out in English, or are basically untranslatable. But it's less of a debate on japanese twitter for that reason (it's implied he cares very deeply for zelda in japanese)
I play the MMO Guild Wars 2. I was taking a multi-year break at the point where this happened but for an entire Living World season (LW = kinda expansion) they had the player character unvoiced despite being voiced until that point. There's been a few different reasons suggested for this- VA availability, budget or even artistic choice. The funny thing is I remember reading that there wasn't that huge uproar at the time that you'd expect. Most agreed that they'd like it back and sure enough it was voiced from that point onwards but the season is still there and playable in game right now. There are also often times in the newer content releases where the devs have inserted non-voiced dialogue into a scene after the VA has been completed to add to the conversation being had. In my view it's 50/50 whether that's been a good thing but the added info/lore is always welcome.
I agree with you! I think there's a place for it, I love how expressive the Links from WW and SS are, but in Persona that's just down right unnecessary. If they want the main character to feel like a vessel for the player then do baldurs gate or don't do it at all. Never felt like I was them anyway.
I think the silent-protagonist-as-player-avatar worked well in the earlier years of games when they were conceptually or graphically more abstract. But in today’s games, I agree with you: it’s difficult to justify your main character not speaking up or responsively emoting when a game is dialogue/story focused or more realistic. I would love to see a Zelda or Persona with an intentionally mute protagonist, due to developmental issues, injury, or even a character who has taken a vow of silence. Otherwise justify the silence by a game about breaking the fourth wall / specifically commenting on the relationship between the PC and the player. I think the danger of the classical silent protagonist is similar to the problem I have with your typical boring anime school boy: they’re in the middle of world ending action with the narrative personality of a blank piece of wet paper, yet all the supporting characters and people around them are praising and falling in love with them for their exceptional bravery, kindness, and humanity.
For me if my character is actively involved, at least in terms of being present, in heavy discussions with other characters then I would like for my character to actually give their own input and opinions on things and not just stand there silently waiting for the next mission objective to pop up for me to go do. I really did not like link still being a silent protagonist for example in the current Zelda games, however in RPGs where I can still select dialogue options even if my character doesn't speak I'm perfectly fine with that. Which is why I actually didn't mind link being "silent" in a game like ocarina of Time because I could still at times pick options to interact with what people are telling me.
Here's a good example for scenes that feel awkward without the character speaking to NPCs: Sonic Generations. Classic sonic in that game doesn't talk, because Adventure/Modern games moreso pushed the quippy banter sonic gave that previously was only prominent in marketing material and cartoons. However, after each level you have scenes where characters briefly interact with Sonic. For classic Sonic it makes sense why he remains silent and mainly just pantomimes or physically responds to what they say. However they do the same thing with modern Sonic and it is so at odds with everything else about him because, that time especially in the series, Sonic was always a chatterbox who would never remain silent when talking to others. It feels so weird that they didn't record any dialogue for modern Sonic for those scenes, and just kept it like classic Sonic where he says nothing at all. In fact he usually just has a far more reserved physical reaction than classic sonic does, like shrugging or shaking his head or something. So bizarre and stands out badly about where corners were cut.
i think i'm kinda just used to it lol, like when i think about it, it *is* pretty weird that joker doesn't speak in p5 outside of single voice clips, but i've kinda just gotten acclimated to it over the years. still, i think it's good for devs to reconsider whether a silent protag fits the game. while planning for xenoblade 1, shulk was actually about to be a silent protag, and i think it's for the better that he's a full character of his own that actually speaks. but with link, i say it's fine for him to remain silent. i see zelda more as a series where *i* am the one in the game, playing through link as an avatar. so, having him be a silent protag so i can project onto him is a good design decision, i'd say.
i like them. but i also like voiced dialogue. i think there are certain characters that dont need to speak because their actions, expressions, and body language can be used to equal effect. this is my opinion, others may feel different
Kind of disappointed that Claude from GTA III was not in the thumbnail. For as big as of a series that GTA has been, the fact that it began its 3D exploration with a nonverbal main character is interesting. I know it's not that modern of a game and so people might be less familiar, but I still think considering how legendary that game was and how impactful it was that it still could have had some representation there. Excellent video though, no complaints lol
I don't really care. Not every protagonist needs to speak, it depends on the story. Silent player avatars really resonated with me much more honestly. They make you feel like they're an extension of yourself in experiencing the game world. An unlikable speaking protagonist could alienate the player and demotivate them from continuing. There are exceptions to every rule of course. When I was younger, this is one of the reasons I just did not speak often irl.
Yoo silent protagonists have started bothering me over the years. I think it really hit me in Persona where instead of immersing me, It really took me out of the world when the protag is the only one who doesn’t speak full sentences. Not having a voice makes a character less relatable to me, imo.
this. it’s really awkward when the persona games make someone basically be there with you so you can always say something or respond to people (morgana). just make the character talk and it would make things flow instead of feeling super awkward
If done well sure but generally I’m opposed to it. The point of them has usually been described as an immersion tool, you know a blank slate that you the player can substitute yourself for regardless of age, gender, race, or background. However I really don’t feel like I need that to be immersed. I don’t need help placing myself in the world nor do I think a potentially great character needs to make room for me in his psyche all the time. I mean this weird relationship is literally the plot of Deltarune. I don’t need a puppet or vessel, I can relate to the actions, sayings, and beliefs of a pre-existing character who has a life seperate from my direct control as I find that more interesting and endearing. I want to “meet” people and connect with them in a game and that INCLUDES the one I’m playing as. Breath of The Wild is my favorite game of all time but I’m so conflicted on Link. In the lore it’s abundantly clear that Link (Hero of the Wild) speaks actually quite frequently. Every selectable dialogue option in conversation is actually Link speaking what you are choosing after all. Precalamity he chose not to speak a lot because of the pressure he felt as wielder of the blade of evils bane, but Zelda wrote herself that she managed to get him to open up, and 100 years of memory wiping shiekah juice later he sure got more chatty in NPC dialogue as he no longer had that pressure. In the lore and dialogue Link is described as a pretty fun and goofy guy with a love of food and immense skill in combat, and I would’ve loved to meet him, but I didn’t get too because he had to be the silent protagonist. What makes me mad is that partially this is the localization teams fault. If you didn’t know, the Japanese version of Breath of the Wild has the entire quest log written from Links first person perspective. “I did this”, “I helped with this”, “Zelda is in trouble, I will save her, because I miss her smile”. Stuff like that. But when the game came to the states? Everything was switched to 2nd person. “YOU did this”, “YOU helped with this”, “YOU will save Zelda because I guess, idk it’s the main quest”. Link was removed from the equation for in my mind, very little good reason.
By the time you get to Dragon Quest V and VI, it's like, this is not a player-insert anymore, this is a character within the world. The story only suffers from the fact that they're always silent.
I would say by biggest issue with Silent Protagonists is Parroting: You can't say anything, so you have the one you are talking to repeat a gist of your statement to know what you said. BUt on the other hand, what about instead of a Silent Protagonist, you have a Mute Protagonist, like Lea from CrossCode?
Monster Hunter recently got rid of their silent protagonist with the new Game coming out soon and it's going to he nuts since the protagonist is customizable! They are going to have to have like 20 voices lmao
It’s kinda hard to enjoy the Persona games to their fullest potential when building relationships with characters is a big part of the game and I can barely communicate back to them, or at least just in my opinion anyways It feels like they’re talking to a brick wall that can rarely say a couple of words at a time, and it makes it even weirder when they become best friends or even lovers with the protagonist who barely speaks
Honestly, Link should have spoken at least at the end of BotW and TotK. He was confirmed to speak to Zelda when they were alone, so why, in the most emotional reunitings of likely their in game lives, would he not say anything? Or you know, give her a hug or something? Love the series, but I do feel Link needs a little more. If he’s happier cooking a meal than he is saving Zelda, that seems like an issue.😂
If they express themselves enough in other ways I'm fine. Skyward Sword link for me is the the best in terms of character, I can tell when he's happy,sad, worried, angry. A bad Link is TOTK, when he should be even more expressive but stands there like a plank of wood, lack of emotion, expression, I don't feel connected to him like Wind waker link or SS Link.
My whole headcanon for silent protagonists is that they're supposed to speak with their actions and not their words. Especially in DQ11, Luminary speaks as a child, but when it's evident that he's the Luminary he can't speak any more. Wouldn't it make sense if the powers they gain as Heros take away their ability to speak until their quest is complete? I think that'd apply well to Zelda too. The Triforce of Courage grants Link divine power, but takes his voice
One thing I love in silent protagonist situations is when the npc speaking to me says something about what they presume I must be thinking, and they actually nail it. It's especially fun when what I'm thinking is maybe a little bit cynical or rude.
I am totally on board with this. How much more insanely good would the end of Tears of the Kingdom have been if Link finally dropped the silent hero bit face-to-face with Ganondorf at the end, letting out all those years of people's expectations weighing on him and the trauma of losing Zelda, with the promise that he will never sit on that throne? It's already the best ending in the series, but people would have *completely* freaked out in the best possible way.
Personally I think it's kinda weird for preexisting characters to not have a voice, like Crono, link, and Joker. However, player created characters should avoid being voiced, I absolutely hated that Fallout 4 had a voiced protagonist and it actually took away from a lot of the drama. The inflections and nuances of tone could come across completely different from what's actually happening from the players perspective.
this ties more into the discussion of story vs gameplay and with nintendo games their focus is gameplay, most of their characters are silent, link, mario, samus, kirby, the animal crossing villager LOL i dont think adding voices to those would enhance the gameplay in any way but i guess it could enhance your enjoyment of the game but i guess it could also make the games less enjoyable for some, red dead 2 with arthur morgan is AWESOME but take him away and it's basically a lame repetitive third person shooting grind for most of the missions LOL and most silent characters talk thru text boxes which i guess is meant to reflect the player like they wrote some pretty funny text box options for link in botw/totk i remember one where some lady asked if he were the hero and the option was "i am he" LOL with that link is a goofball and after playing paper mario, mario comes across as a sarcastic chill guy that's open to everyone LOL just because the writers made those options that way, even in animal crossing the player character gets personality by catching bugs and fish and having a little pun thrown in their, uck if animal crossing were fully voiced THAT'd be cringe because they already have the fake animal language, but i guess that's an outlier in this DISCUSSION
Oh I actually heavily disagree with you on fallout, I absolutely hate it how they handled the player character in fallout 4 and generally most people agree that even if there are moments of entertainment "Nate" or "Nora" as RPG protagonist feel very awkward and forced. In my opinion New Vegas was the best way of handling writing for a player character, the writing of fallout 3's PC dialogue felt way too much like it was restricted to how Bethesda writers understood certain character traits, especially when picking perks that added more dialogue options, by comparison to NV where it felt like the writers had a better understanding of how to provide diverse options that not only felt authentic to the kind of traits they embodied but also diverse enough to feel like different options could naturally present distinct characters and not just the same kind of voice but saying things a bit differently or far more heavily swayed in the opposite direction that it felt more like role playing archetypes rather than real fleshed out characters. In the case of fallout 4 the protagonist has way too much built-in backstory to have any role-playing aspects feel keeping in character. Role playing as an asshole that doesn't care about anyone does not work for Nate or Nora and the fact that we have official Bethesda staff still retroactively applying retconned information to these characters while addressing them as the preset names just shows how badly fallout 4 doesn't have a player's character it has a Bethesda character that you have very little meaningful influence over.
I would say, games like Fallout 4 would have issues for me because you are essentially creating your own character and taking the wheel of your own motives and personality. However, while we do have dialog choices, comes a time where the delivery of the lines does not match the intended way we would have liked to express them. You can observe a certain type of personality and motive behind the vocally spoken words. With silent lines, you can use your imagination to make up for it.
Of course no one wants a BAD voice, lol. But I think if Link spoke more like a Fire Emblem protag he’d be totally fine. Nothing fancy, just an honest noble hero wanting to get through the day and save a kingdom.
@@tappydani9378 I've joked in the past that if they ever did a Zelda movie (which I guess they are now), they should go the "Thief and the Cobbler" route where Link is mute for the majority of the film, until the end where he finally speaks, and he has this super deep voice.
I think that unless you have a complete custom character, there's little reason why the protagonist should be silent for these big adventure type games
Kris from Deltarune is my favorite silent protag because it is very clear they are their own person and we're controlling them. And when we do select dialogue options, sometimes Kris is unsure about what we make them say or do or, after the Spamton fight, is suddenly shouting. It plays into this struggle between us, the player, and Kris really well, especially in the scenes where Kris takes out their soul, leaving the camera where it is, to do their own thing. It also creates this mystery of who is Kris when the bulk of that is learned through other character's perceptions, why are we controlling them, why are they so unreactive during Snowgrave route, how do they feel about some characters, etc. Deltarune as a whole is about playing into and twisting tropes, and what it does with a silent protagonist is so goddamn intriguing.
I'm a staunch believer that Link should never speak, even in the upcoming movie. Age of Calamity is an excellent example of this, where the story is truly Princess Zelda's tale and you are an observer through Link. There's an art to the silent avatar character, and it's up to you (the player/viewer) to voice what you want to in their stead. This troupe isn't something that needs to go away. Furthermore, I think this is an excellent opportunity to evolve some of these characters into true mute/deaf individuals for better on-screen representation. Have them communicate through sign/written language
To be fair Liink does speak just not a lot and he chooses to stay silent a lot of the time likely asking for directions only or telling people what he needs from them. The mangas of legend of zelda do have a Link speaking all the time and while at times a bit of annoying like how he can tend to argue with Navi I do like them since it makes sense to me a kid would get annoyed with her and vice versa
I think they had the best of both worlds by making Link more expressive despite being silent, making him both a vessel for the player and a character in his own world. I don't undertand why starting with Breath of the Wild they made him rather emotionless.
Here's a way to tackle the problem of letting the protagonist talk but also make it so the player can put themselves into the protagonist. Let them speak, but don't give them a voice associated with them (or at the very least, grunts for attacking and other such things). I've noticed that, at least with the Visual Novels I play, it can be very easy to feel more connected as the protagonist because they give me the option to say things, but there's also no voice for the protagonist so I'll just use my own voice when reading their dialogue. I'd like to see a proper game try this technique out so I can see if it's a tactic that's only good for text based games.
It's hypocritical how people want Link, Gordon Freeman, several avatars, and even Mario of all characters to remain silent half the time, but want characters like *Metal Sonic* to be bombastic villainous chatterboxes. I wonder if these are the same people who hate Sonic's "friends" (the extended cast/other playable characters), but want Sally Acorn to come back, attitude and all. It hurts my brain.
I feel that for games where you create the name for your character, like older Zelda games and in Persona, silent or near silent protagonists are more applicable because you are, in part, creating your own character. On one playthrough for instance, you can have your character behave like a gentleman and in another, like a bully. In BotW, TotK, and other games where your character has an unchangeable name, a voiced protagonist is better applicable because you're not making your own character but taking on a character with clearly defined thoughts, personality, and traits. I am curious to see how some franchises, like Zelda, evolve with this concept.
Yeah, BotW/TotK Link is pretty boring. He has a bit of personality in the dialog options but it would have been much better if he just spoke a little. I don't really like BotW/TotK though so I might be a little biased
The thing is Link isn’t silent and he does technically “speak” when you talk to other NPC. So it’s not him just standing there and never speaking A recent game that did felt off was the Metro Games. Even the new one from 2019 it was so weird having a silent protagonist in gameplay (not connoting the loading screens). It just doesn’t feel like I was playing a character in the story when the story very much act like you do.
To me the main thing about the metro games is that they don’t really need a voice protagonist imo. The experiences and people you meet in the metro are the main focus with Artyom’s story being mainly shown through cutscenes. Also, the dialogue between each of the levels in metro 2033 and last light serves to set the mindset of the character. I do agree though that in metro exodus it does feel way more like a problem because there are long sections where you never hear Artyom’s voice at all and there aren’t really any dialogue options either. Though you can at least holster your weapon to show if you’re friendly or not.
I'm not of the opinion that every protagonist needs a dubbing voice, Link for example. Link is the hero chosen by the goddesses and the bearer of the Triforce of Courage, but he's also a goofy little dork who stubs his toe when he opens a chest barefoot and blushes when he's complimented on his cross-dressing. All those silly moments with him work better because he's a silent protagonist and has to express himself through gestures and mimik alone even in BotW and TotK. His silence works to his advantage, not his disadvantage. Give him the heroic voice or angry shouting of an RPG protagonist and suddenly those scenes will feel out of place.
like any tool in a artistic medium, it can be used well and used badly. If you want me to project onto the protagonist, then give me customization options for race, height, gender, muscle mass, fat distribution, etc. then, give me several dialogue options so that I can inject my own personality. persona 5 really bothered me in this way. it couldn't choose if Joker was a self-insert or his own character. in the beginning of the story, he's all cool and seems like his own guy, but the game also tries to play it both ways, it lets you name him and decide his feelings and the such at times. so, are we supposed to project? I guess so. yet suddenly, even if i've not been interested in flirting with girls the whole game, he'll oogle the girl's breasts in the desert cutscene like a incel pervert, even though he's APPARENTLY supposed to me be (even though his gender doesn't even match my own...)... so either go one way or the other! if he's going to be my self insert, fine. but if you want him to be his own person, then why are you giving my personality agency over his outside of cutscenes!? it's frustratingly inconsistent. it's all kinda bothersome. of course, there's also silent protagonists who AREN'T meant to be projected on, but that's just a personality of a character who is their own person, there's no real problem with it.
As a comparison to Zelda (silent) you've got Final Fantasy (not silent). Both are fine... however, when you think about it..the more the designers leave OUT in defining the protagonist...the more it allows ME to imagine what they are like. With link, I can imagine his attitude, speaking style, emotional outbursts...but with final fantasy, I already know Cloud is a jerk from the beginning.
By the way, all of Zelda's dialog in BotW was completely obnoxious to me. And I despise everything about all the sages and their dialog. I'd much rather have no story at all.
@lightdarksoul2097 it's been a long time since I've heard anyone imply Zelda is an rpg. That's a whole other topic. It's a sure thing I've lost patience for turn based rpgs at least. FF9 might be the last one I played.
Yeah it's matter, we had Forspoken and Saint Row Reboot... this proves protagonist silent is really necessary and never heard any cringe dialogues. Wanna cheer my protagonist, not feel like loser play with them.
While I don't think I'm as bothered by the silent protagonist as you are, I do agree that it is largely an outdated trope, and I have always found the "better immerse the player" argument to be quite flawed and misguided, as I find an unresponsive character to be much more immersion-breaking than one that reacts differently than I would have.
Extreme disagree. I never want my protagonist in any game, ever, to speak. Selecting text-only responses could be okay. The last thing I want is to have to sit through my character delivering a line I don't relate with.
I never liked silent protagonists. I think they're just an excuse for making in game conversations easier for the developers (Silent protagonist = less work)
I hate when protags don't talk, and them not talking does nothing to further immerse myself. I whether the player character is original or user created I want someone who REACTS to the world around them and to the people they talk to, because your character is part of the story and what freakin main character doesn't f***ing talk?? Whoever pitched that your character being mute helped the player better insert themselves... should get a paycut.
And yet people LOVE Link specifically because this lack of specificity has made him so open to interpretation as a character. There's a reason Miyamoto got to the top as a game designer while you haven't.
100% prefer we drop silent protags in most cases. these characters are rarely relatable and far less interesting than the increasingly strong personalities surrounding them.
Heroic Mimes are a trope that should've died off years ago. If an open-ended RPG like Mass Effect can have a protagonist that speaks, there's no excuse for games that are far more linear.
portal 2 is my favourite example of a silent protagonist, since the characters that do speak fall into one of 3 categories: pre-recorded voice (cave johnson, turrets, etc), actively acknowledge silence (wheatley, glados), and So In Their Own World They Don't Even Process It (corrupted cores, wheatley (he's i n2 categories don't worry about it))
cave johnson's pre-recorded messages serve to give information, which is pretty standard
glados prefers that you don't talk so she can make fun of you, but still sees the silence as dangerous (source: exit interview speech before credits)
wheatley knows you don't speak but is too busy talking to give you a chance to speak anyway
corrupted cores ramble endlessly, even more than wheatley
idk i just think it's neat
I'm fine with silent protagonists. I'm not fine with emotionless protagonists. If something happens in a scene that is shocking or sad or exciting but the character just stands there with a plain look on their face it rips me right out of the experience.
It's so weird going back to old gamecube cutscenes of TTYD after playing the FAR more expressive remake.
first thing that came to mind is the pokemon games. when they started doing 3D, they have in-game cutscenes
where the player character just has the same expression. they DO express as expected in the high poly
model cutscenes, but its weird they couldnt be bothered to make an extra face texture or 2 for the player character
to use in the lower detail scenes.
@@ArcRay20 my first thought was the Totem mons in Sun/Moon. The protag just has the same smile on their face.
@@CyberBlastoise yeah its far more common to see in those games. i still remember the demo version where the dragon of the region runs up on you and the character just has a big smile on their face while having the body langugae of somebody is a bit startled by the giant monster running right at them😆
So Fi (who dwells inside the Skyward Sword), should literally freak out and shit herself anytime a Moblin (or the dreaded Imprisoned) shows up.
When you're choosing a dialogue option like with BotW or Persona, I actually WAY prefer if the protagonist doesn't talk. Not only does having the character voice a line I already read waste time and feel redundant, but you potentially run into problems like Fallout 4 where the delivery sometimes doesn't match what you might've expected. In cutscenes and stuff tho, I'm generally in favor of having them speak, especially if there's voice acting.
You hit the nail on the head. I was just about to say this.
i think that like, there's different divides between silent characters. Sometimes the text is implied, sometimes it's just unvoiced, and a few times they're canonically mute or taking a vow of silence. i feel like the distinction's important.
True
But when it comes to mute protagonists, there has to be a reason for them to be mute.
I think Chel from Portal is boring for that reason. As far as I know, there’s no obvious reason for being mute.
Whatever the reason is, I played a Portal-like game called Entropy Centre and the protagonist and Entropy gun talk with each other a lot.
I would’ve liked to see banter between Wheatley, Chel, and GLaDOS
If the character you play as is a fully customizable character, like in an rpg like Elder Scrolls or Fallout, then I believe they should be silent so you could better immerse yourself. But if they're a predetermined character, like P5 Joke for example, then let them talk. I feel like there's already a disconnect in immersion in a game when you're using a predetermined character that you rarely ever hear talk.
Still on the topic of Persona, I feel like Atlus kinda feels the same way. When Persona 5 first came out, he was just Joker, an avatar for the player. But with all the adaptations of P5 since, he's his own character now, Ren Amamiya. He's fully voiced in the anime adaptations, he's fully voiced in that weird Persona 5 Phantom X spinoff, etc.
It just makes me think they're holding on to the silent protagonist as a traditional thing now, considering they justify all of their silent protagonists with canonical names and personalities later on. They become less and less of an avatar the more time passes, to the point where it takes me out of the game when the voiced dialogue always refers to Ren as "this guy". They might as well establish the characger from the start, and justify them having a flexible personality to prevent oddly out of character moments
I don't know if my point really got across lol, I'm just kinda rambling tbh.
After playing Soul Hackers II and Fire Emblem: Engage, I'm convinced RPGs work wayyyyy better with voiced protagonists especially during dialogue options and cutscenes.
Using those two as an example, I don't actually think it matters what the character is like, as long as they act rationally. Like female Alear from FE is a total sweetheart who believes anything is possible. And Ringo from SH is a sassy aloof brat with a heart of gold. They both absolutely blow Joker and Byleth out of the water.
However I believe that during gameplay the main character needs to shush because that's when the player is in the role. As we saw in Horizon Zero Dawn 2 and Subnautica: Below Zero which annihilated immersion.
I absolutely hate it when your character comments on the gameplay. You're hiding in the tall grass and the character is like "that should give me enough cover". Yeah, no shit, that's why I directed you there.
I prefer silent protags
5:33 i will say in the case of botw and totk i really think he's SUPPOSED to be awkwardly stoic because that's the version of the character they wrote, and it would be a quite significant change in characterisation if he wasn't, like, i'm sure it'd be a fine choice, but also then you've just invented a totally different character than the one who actually appears in those games
like the fact that he stands there in certain cutscenes and just doesn't say anything is like. yeah it feels awkward, but if you're around someone who's like very limitedly verbal or non-verbal in real life and doesn't emote much on their face, that's kind of how it actually feels, and that's like the kind of character he is
yeah botw/totk is interesting because he's in this awkward middle ground. He has a defined character in things like the external books, the quest log in Japanese, Zelda and Daruk's diary, etc... but they don't allow him to speak or show huge obvious expressions in cutscenes. He actually does have facial animation in some scenes that people think he doesn't, but you have to zoom in or go frame by frame to see them
@@kit76149 some people are like that though so i think it's just meant to be what he's like !! the team is clearly capable of doing otherwise if they wanted to based on past examples
I like the idea of a silent protagonist, as long as the storytelling is crafted around it. Would not like it for all games though.
I agree with ya here. This is why I love the Chrono Trigger ending "Reunion" because he talks a little bit there. I wish the whole game had him throw small bits of dialogue in here and there.
Imo, Honkai Star Rail does the silent protagonist well. At first, they're very quiet, but when it comes to things like side quests or character diologue, they give you the ability to give your character more personality and you see a side to that character you weren't expecting.
And the humor of the game works well with it. It never fully takes itself too seriously, so there are moments where the protagonist can really shine as a character, whether it be making easy to understand pop culture references or the protagonist just straight up calling out a character for being cringe. These characters really need to have more personality and Star Rail shows it is possible.
In the Persona 5 Animation, the anime adaptation of Persona 5, Joker does, in fact, speak. They couldn't get around it when it came to the animated adaptation. As far as the Zelda live action movie is concerned, unfortunately Link will also be speaking. Movie and anime adaptations are very hard to keep their protagonists silent. They can't really get around it as it's a different kind of media.
Funnily enough not the first time that has happened
P4 arena had yu talking a lot mostly because he isn’t the main character of the game and it would just be weird for him to just stand their and not say something
It depends for me. Some silent protagonists are okay. One I am okay with is GTAIII, where all we need to know about Claude is that he was betrayed and is out for vengeance, plain and simple. However, when it comes to a silent protagonist Isaac Clarke in the original "Dead Space," it feels jarring that the protagonist does not react to the horror, compounded that the game introduces a personal element to the character, that being Nicole, the love interest. There is a disconnect when Isaac does not even interact with Nicole at all, and you would think that he would say something to someone near and dear to him.
The Zelda series has done this thing where it's implied you are speaking to the NPCs so they always react quickly to whatever task the game wants you to complete. I wish Link pantomimed a little more because the dialogue choices in BotW/TotK reveal that he is much sassier than the game shows us.
As for silent protagonists overall I tend to prefer them over a poorly voiced protagonist or one that talks too much.
The flashback cutscenes sure don't show Link as being sassy, even though he really should. He just stands there while Zelda badmouths him while the audience is wondering when he'll exclaim "Well *_EXCUUUUUSE_* me, Princess!"
@@otaking3582well of course he's not going to be sassy with the princess or other important characters.
Anyways, since the game tells you that he stopped talking when he found out about his destiny as the hero due to stress and pressure, I have the theory that when he wakes up after 100 years and losing his memories, he's just himself again. He may remember some stuff and others tell him about his past and responsibiilities but he probably feels less conection to all that and acts more like the teen he is, having fun while shield sliding and sometimes playing around a little with NPCs.
By losing his memories he regained part of his personality that he repressed in the past
@@uralink3485 What personality? He didn't have any personality.
So where was this "sassiness" when Zelda was being a bitch to him in BotW, or when Urbosa was telling him what his duty is, shortly after Zelda was a bitch to him?
@@NorthSutherland the best stuff is found talking to the NPCs but if you need sparknotes this thread is a good place the start: x.com/uukhanu/status/1779564504394650071
Kris is a good example of this,they are there own person but are controlled by somebody,even though they are slient,they where like that before and Kris is still a interesting character and proves you don't have to talk to be good. I'm happy for slient protags,just don't make them emotionaless unless they are a self insert.
There is the silent protagonist, and there is Tav from Baldur's Gate 3. The main character of Baldur's Gate 3 does not have the dialogue made from choices spoken out loud, but they pretty much have their very own personality- the one player chooses to give them. It's supposed to simulate D&D, and it does an incredible job at that. The player's choice impacts pretty much everything in the story, and it's the most complex and the best solution to the Silent Protagonist problem
It's a case-by-case basis, so I'm going to give my thoughts on a few examples.
BOTW/TOTK - I disagree with you here and I think Link being silent is part of the game's mystery vibe. Because he doesn't talk, it leaves you wondering and speculating how he feels when certain things happen (e.g. when Link finds out the plot twist of TOTK - I won't spoil but you know the one). We wouldn't be constantly debating whether Zelink is canon or not if Link was speaking his mind, and I think the game would lose some charm.
Dragon Quest 11 - Yeah, this could definitely do with having the MC speak. The writing is very awkwardly dancing around the fact that he doesn't speak and it sometimes even breaks the fourth wall because of it. Just let him speak lol.
Persona 5 - I wouldn't even qualify Joker as a silent protag. He does speak in some cutscenes and I perceive the dialog options as him speaking aswell. Since you're already reading the options in your head before you select them, I feel like it would upset the flow of the dialog if he were to repeat it out loud after you select them.
Yakuza - Doesn't have a silent protag and is a good example of how a game can work well if you fully flesh out a video game protagonist and drop the notion of them being a self-insert for the player. Kiryu and the other protags are very cool characters with a lot of depth, and that wouldn't be possible with a silent protag.
We see more of Link's thoughts in the japanese version. They were just unfortunately taken out in English, or are basically untranslatable. But it's less of a debate on japanese twitter for that reason (it's implied he cares very deeply for zelda in japanese)
I play the MMO Guild Wars 2. I was taking a multi-year break at the point where this happened but for an entire Living World season (LW = kinda expansion) they had the player character unvoiced despite being voiced until that point. There's been a few different reasons suggested for this- VA availability, budget or even artistic choice. The funny thing is I remember reading that there wasn't that huge uproar at the time that you'd expect.
Most agreed that they'd like it back and sure enough it was voiced from that point onwards but the season is still there and playable in game right now. There are also often times in the newer content releases where the devs have inserted non-voiced dialogue into a scene after the VA has been completed to add to the conversation being had. In my view it's 50/50 whether that's been a good thing but the added info/lore is always welcome.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
I agree with you! I think there's a place for it, I love how expressive the Links from WW and SS are, but in Persona that's just down right unnecessary. If they want the main character to feel like a vessel for the player then do baldurs gate or don't do it at all. Never felt like I was them anyway.
I think the silent-protagonist-as-player-avatar worked well in the earlier years of games when they were conceptually or graphically more abstract. But in today’s games, I agree with you: it’s difficult to justify your main character not speaking up or responsively emoting when a game is dialogue/story focused or more realistic.
I would love to see a Zelda or Persona with an intentionally mute protagonist, due to developmental issues, injury, or even a character who has taken a vow of silence.
Otherwise justify the silence by a game about breaking the fourth wall / specifically commenting on the relationship between the PC and the player.
I think the danger of the classical silent protagonist is similar to the problem I have with your typical boring anime school boy: they’re in the middle of world ending action with the narrative personality of a blank piece of wet paper, yet all the supporting characters and people around them are praising and falling in love with them for their exceptional bravery, kindness, and humanity.
For me if my character is actively involved, at least in terms of being present, in heavy discussions with other characters then I would like for my character to actually give their own input and opinions on things and not just stand there silently waiting for the next mission objective to pop up for me to go do. I really did not like link still being a silent protagonist for example in the current Zelda games, however in RPGs where I can still select dialogue options even if my character doesn't speak I'm perfectly fine with that. Which is why I actually didn't mind link being "silent" in a game like ocarina of Time because I could still at times pick options to interact with what people are telling me.
Here's a good example for scenes that feel awkward without the character speaking to NPCs: Sonic Generations.
Classic sonic in that game doesn't talk, because Adventure/Modern games moreso pushed the quippy banter sonic gave that previously was only prominent in marketing material and cartoons.
However, after each level you have scenes where characters briefly interact with Sonic. For classic Sonic it makes sense why he remains silent and mainly just pantomimes or physically responds to what they say.
However they do the same thing with modern Sonic and it is so at odds with everything else about him because, that time especially in the series, Sonic was always a chatterbox who would never remain silent when talking to others. It feels so weird that they didn't record any dialogue for modern Sonic for those scenes, and just kept it like classic Sonic where he says nothing at all.
In fact he usually just has a far more reserved physical reaction than classic sonic does, like shrugging or shaking his head or something. So bizarre and stands out badly about where corners were cut.
I agree with you to a certain degree. I just can't imagine talking Link xD
CDi Link: Allow me to introduce myself
i think i'm kinda just used to it lol, like when i think about it, it *is* pretty weird that joker doesn't speak in p5 outside of single voice clips, but i've kinda just gotten acclimated to it over the years. still, i think it's good for devs to reconsider whether a silent protag fits the game. while planning for xenoblade 1, shulk was actually about to be a silent protag, and i think it's for the better that he's a full character of his own that actually speaks. but with link, i say it's fine for him to remain silent. i see zelda more as a series where *i* am the one in the game, playing through link as an avatar. so, having him be a silent protag so i can project onto him is a good design decision, i'd say.
i like them. but i also like voiced dialogue.
i think there are certain characters that dont need to speak because their actions, expressions, and body language can be used to equal effect. this is my opinion, others may feel different
Kind of disappointed that Claude from GTA III was not in the thumbnail. For as big as of a series that GTA has been, the fact that it began its 3D exploration with a nonverbal main character is interesting. I know it's not that modern of a game and so people might be less familiar, but I still think considering how legendary that game was and how impactful it was that it still could have had some representation there.
Excellent video though, no complaints lol
I have a neutral opinion on this subject except for half-life. Gordon Freeman needs to remain a silent protagonist.
I don't really care. Not every protagonist needs to speak, it depends on the story. Silent player avatars really resonated with me much more honestly. They make you feel like they're an extension of yourself in experiencing the game world. An unlikable speaking protagonist could alienate the player and demotivate them from continuing. There are exceptions to every rule of course. When I was younger, this is one of the reasons I just did not speak often irl.
Case in point, the way Samus Aran was written in Metroid Other M, right?
Yoo silent protagonists have started bothering me over the years. I think it really hit me in Persona where instead of immersing me, It really took me out of the world when the protag is the only one who doesn’t speak full sentences.
Not having a voice makes a character less relatable to me, imo.
this. it’s really awkward when the persona games make someone basically be there with you so you can always say something or respond to people (morgana). just make the character talk and it would make things flow instead of feeling super awkward
If done well sure but generally I’m opposed to it.
The point of them has usually been described as an immersion tool, you know a blank slate that you the player can substitute yourself for regardless of age, gender, race, or background.
However I really don’t feel like I need that to be immersed. I don’t need help placing myself in the world nor do I think a potentially great character needs to make room for me in his psyche all the time.
I mean this weird relationship is literally the plot of Deltarune. I don’t need a puppet or vessel, I can relate to the actions, sayings, and beliefs of a pre-existing character who has a life seperate from my direct control as I find that more interesting and endearing. I want to “meet” people and connect with them in a game and that INCLUDES the one I’m playing as.
Breath of The Wild is my favorite game of all time but I’m so conflicted on Link. In the lore it’s abundantly clear that Link (Hero of the Wild) speaks actually quite frequently. Every selectable dialogue option in conversation is actually Link speaking what you are choosing after all. Precalamity he chose not to speak a lot because of the pressure he felt as wielder of the blade of evils bane, but Zelda wrote herself that she managed to get him to open up, and 100 years of memory wiping shiekah juice later he sure got more chatty in NPC dialogue as he no longer had that pressure. In the lore and dialogue Link is described as a pretty fun and goofy guy with a love of food and immense skill in combat, and I would’ve loved to meet him, but I didn’t get too because he had to be the silent protagonist.
What makes me mad is that partially this is the localization teams fault. If you didn’t know, the Japanese version of Breath of the Wild has the entire quest log written from Links first person perspective. “I did this”, “I helped with this”, “Zelda is in trouble, I will save her, because I miss her smile”. Stuff like that. But when the game came to the states? Everything was switched to 2nd person. “YOU did this”, “YOU helped with this”, “YOU will save Zelda because I guess, idk it’s the main quest”. Link was removed from the equation for in my mind, very little good reason.
By the time you get to Dragon Quest V and VI, it's like, this is not a player-insert anymore, this is a character within the world. The story only suffers from the fact that they're always silent.
Imagine if steve ran his mouth while playing minecraft. Maybe like a sim where he complains all the time.
Idk I'm bias I like Kirby not talking, but someone like BOTW Link it's a little limiting
I would say by biggest issue with Silent Protagonists is Parroting: You can't say anything, so you have the one you are talking to repeat a gist of your statement to know what you said.
BUt on the other hand, what about instead of a Silent Protagonist, you have a Mute Protagonist, like Lea from CrossCode?
Yeah that bothers me so much. It's so awkward
Monster Hunter recently got rid of their silent protagonist with the new Game coming out soon and it's going to he nuts since the protagonist is customizable! They are going to have to have like 20 voices lmao
It’s kinda hard to enjoy the Persona games to their fullest potential when building relationships with characters is a big part of the game and I can barely communicate back to them, or at least just in my opinion anyways
It feels like they’re talking to a brick wall that can rarely say a couple of words at a time, and it makes it even weirder when they become best friends or even lovers with the protagonist who barely speaks
...
Honestly, Link should have spoken at least at the end of BotW and TotK. He was confirmed to speak to Zelda when they were alone, so why, in the most emotional reunitings of likely their in game lives, would he not say anything? Or you know, give her a hug or something? Love the series, but I do feel Link needs a little more. If he’s happier cooking a meal than he is saving Zelda, that seems like an issue.😂
So should Link talk in the upcoming live-action movie?
I think it depends on how it's presented but yeah I think he should have a voice but short on words sort of like max from Fury Roaf
If they express themselves enough in other ways I'm fine. Skyward Sword link for me is the the best in terms of character, I can tell when he's happy,sad, worried, angry. A bad Link is TOTK, when he should be even more expressive but stands there like a plank of wood, lack of emotion, expression, I don't feel connected to him like Wind waker link or SS Link.
My whole headcanon for silent protagonists is that they're supposed to speak with their actions and not their words. Especially in DQ11, Luminary speaks as a child, but when it's evident that he's the Luminary he can't speak any more. Wouldn't it make sense if the powers they gain as Heros take away their ability to speak until their quest is complete? I think that'd apply well to Zelda too. The Triforce of Courage grants Link divine power, but takes his voice
One thing I love in silent protagonist situations is when the npc speaking to me says something about what they presume I must be thinking, and they actually nail it. It's especially fun when what I'm thinking is maybe a little bit cynical or rude.
I am totally on board with this. How much more insanely good would the end of Tears of the Kingdom have been if Link finally dropped the silent hero bit face-to-face with Ganondorf at the end, letting out all those years of people's expectations weighing on him and the trauma of losing Zelda, with the promise that he will never sit on that throne? It's already the best ending in the series, but people would have *completely* freaked out in the best possible way.
After playing RDR2 and RDO, I much prefer to have a character interact and play off of everyone rather than just pantomime.
Personally I think it's kinda weird for preexisting characters to not have a voice, like Crono, link, and Joker. However, player created characters should avoid being voiced, I absolutely hated that Fallout 4 had a voiced protagonist and it actually took away from a lot of the drama. The inflections and nuances of tone could come across completely different from what's actually happening from the players perspective.
this ties more into the discussion of story vs gameplay and with nintendo games their focus is gameplay, most of their characters are silent, link, mario, samus, kirby, the animal crossing villager LOL i dont think adding voices to those would enhance the gameplay in any way but i guess it could enhance your enjoyment of the game but i guess it could also make the games less enjoyable for some, red dead 2 with arthur morgan is AWESOME but take him away and it's basically a lame repetitive third person shooting grind for most of the missions LOL and most silent characters talk thru text boxes which i guess is meant to reflect the player like they wrote some pretty funny text box options for link in botw/totk i remember one where some lady asked if he were the hero and the option was "i am he" LOL with that link is a goofball and after playing paper mario, mario comes across as a sarcastic chill guy that's open to everyone LOL just because the writers made those options that way, even in animal crossing the player character gets personality by catching bugs and fish and having a little pun thrown in their, uck if animal crossing were fully voiced THAT'd be cringe because they already have the fake animal language, but i guess that's an outlier in this DISCUSSION
Oh I actually heavily disagree with you on fallout, I absolutely hate it how they handled the player character in fallout 4 and generally most people agree that even if there are moments of entertainment "Nate" or "Nora" as RPG protagonist feel very awkward and forced.
In my opinion New Vegas was the best way of handling writing for a player character, the writing of fallout 3's PC dialogue felt way too much like it was restricted to how Bethesda writers understood certain character traits, especially when picking perks that added more dialogue options, by comparison to NV where it felt like the writers had a better understanding of how to provide diverse options that not only felt authentic to the kind of traits they embodied but also diverse enough to feel like different options could naturally present distinct characters and not just the same kind of voice but saying things a bit differently or far more heavily swayed in the opposite direction that it felt more like role playing archetypes rather than real fleshed out characters.
In the case of fallout 4 the protagonist has way too much built-in backstory to have any role-playing aspects feel keeping in character. Role playing as an asshole that doesn't care about anyone does not work for Nate or Nora and the fact that we have official Bethesda staff still retroactively applying retconned information to these characters while addressing them as the preset names just shows how badly fallout 4 doesn't have a player's character it has a Bethesda character that you have very little meaningful influence over.
I would say, games like Fallout 4 would have issues for me because you are essentially creating your own character and taking the wheel of your own motives and personality. However, while we do have dialog choices, comes a time where the delivery of the lines does not match the intended way we would have liked to express them. You can observe a certain type of personality and motive behind the vocally spoken words. With silent lines, you can use your imagination to make up for it.
Great topic, I'm gonna watch that
Shesez: "I wish Link spoke more."
Link: "WELL EXCUUUUUUUSE, ME!"
Of course no one wants a BAD voice, lol. But I think if Link spoke more like a Fire Emblem protag he’d be totally fine. Nothing fancy, just an honest noble hero wanting to get through the day and save a kingdom.
@@tappydani9378 I've joked in the past that if they ever did a Zelda movie (which I guess they are now), they should go the "Thief and the Cobbler" route where Link is mute for the majority of the film, until the end where he finally speaks, and he has this super deep voice.
I think that unless you have a complete custom character, there's little reason why the protagonist should be silent for these big adventure type games
I love silent protagonist and I think the persona series does it very well
fallout 4 is not a good example of "improvement". You have way less options thanks to having voice acting.
Kris from Deltarune is my favorite silent protag because it is very clear they are their own person and we're controlling them. And when we do select dialogue options, sometimes Kris is unsure about what we make them say or do or, after the Spamton fight, is suddenly shouting. It plays into this struggle between us, the player, and Kris really well, especially in the scenes where Kris takes out their soul, leaving the camera where it is, to do their own thing. It also creates this mystery of who is Kris when the bulk of that is learned through other character's perceptions, why are we controlling them, why are they so unreactive during Snowgrave route, how do they feel about some characters, etc.
Deltarune as a whole is about playing into and twisting tropes, and what it does with a silent protagonist is so goddamn intriguing.
Imagine if Sega kept Sonic a silent protagonist once the franchise transitioned to 3-D...
I'm a staunch believer that Link should never speak, even in the upcoming movie. Age of Calamity is an excellent example of this, where the story is truly Princess Zelda's tale and you are an observer through Link. There's an art to the silent avatar character, and it's up to you (the player/viewer) to voice what you want to in their stead. This troupe isn't something that needs to go away. Furthermore, I think this is an excellent opportunity to evolve some of these characters into true mute/deaf individuals for better on-screen representation. Have them communicate through sign/written language
To be fair Liink does speak just not a lot and he chooses to stay silent a lot of the time likely asking for directions only or telling people what he needs from them. The mangas of legend of zelda do have a Link speaking all the time and while at times a bit of annoying like how he can tend to argue with Navi I do like them since it makes sense to me a kid would get annoyed with her and vice versa
I think they had the best of both worlds by making Link more expressive despite being silent, making him both a vessel for the player and a character in his own world. I don't undertand why starting with Breath of the Wild they made him rather emotionless.
He tells zelda why he's like that though doesn't he
he's just a more stoic character than the other links. he gives alexithymic vibes
I would voice my opinions, but I myself am a silent protagonist and cannot speak.
Here's a way to tackle the problem of letting the protagonist talk but also make it so the player can put themselves into the protagonist.
Let them speak, but don't give them a voice associated with them (or at the very least, grunts for attacking and other such things).
I've noticed that, at least with the Visual Novels I play, it can be very easy to feel more connected as the protagonist because they give me the option to say things, but there's also no voice for the protagonist so I'll just use my own voice when reading their dialogue. I'd like to see a proper game try this technique out so I can see if it's a tactic that's only good for text based games.
Be careful about wanting a voiced Link. Remember what happened last time…
Gee! Sure is *B O R I N G* around here!
It's hypocritical how people want Link, Gordon Freeman, several avatars, and even Mario of all characters to remain silent half the time, but want characters like *Metal Sonic* to be bombastic villainous chatterboxes.
I wonder if these are the same people who hate Sonic's "friends" (the extended cast/other playable characters), but want Sally Acorn to come back, attitude and all.
It hurts my brain.
I feel that for games where you create the name for your character, like older Zelda games and in Persona, silent or near silent protagonists are more applicable because you are, in part, creating your own character. On one playthrough for instance, you can have your character behave like a gentleman and in another, like a bully.
In BotW, TotK, and other games where your character has an unchangeable name, a voiced protagonist is better applicable because you're not making your own character but taking on a character with clearly defined thoughts, personality, and traits.
I am curious to see how some franchises, like Zelda, evolve with this concept.
Yeah, BotW/TotK Link is pretty boring. He has a bit of personality in the dialog options but it would have been much better if he just spoke a little.
I don't really like BotW/TotK though so I might be a little biased
The thing is Link isn’t silent and he does technically “speak” when you talk to other NPC. So it’s not him just standing there and never speaking
A recent game that did felt off was the Metro Games. Even the new one from 2019 it was so weird having a silent protagonist in gameplay (not connoting the loading screens). It just doesn’t feel like I was playing a character in the story when the story very much act like you do.
To me the main thing about the metro games is that they don’t really need a voice protagonist imo. The experiences and people you meet in the metro are the main focus with Artyom’s story being mainly shown through cutscenes. Also, the dialogue between each of the levels in metro 2033 and last light serves to set the mindset of the character. I do agree though that in metro exodus it does feel way more like a problem because there are long sections where you never hear Artyom’s voice at all and there aren’t really any dialogue options either. Though you can at least holster your weapon to show if you’re friendly or not.
Na we need more silent protagonist, modern protagonist have the opposite problem of never shutting up when they need to.
Kurby's avalanche
No mention or review of the free built-in multiplayer feature? Remember luigis mansion 3 you have to pay for a add on for multiplayer.
I'm not of the opinion that every protagonist needs a dubbing voice, Link for example. Link is the hero chosen by the goddesses and the bearer of the Triforce of Courage, but he's also a goofy little dork who stubs his toe when he opens a chest barefoot and blushes when he's complimented on his cross-dressing. All those silly moments with him work better because he's a silent protagonist and has to express himself through gestures and mimik alone even in BotW and TotK. His silence works to his advantage, not his disadvantage. Give him the heroic voice or angry shouting of an RPG protagonist and suddenly those scenes will feel out of place.
like any tool in a artistic medium, it can be used well and used badly.
If you want me to project onto the protagonist, then give me customization options for race, height, gender, muscle mass, fat distribution, etc. then, give me several dialogue options so that I can inject my own personality. persona 5 really bothered me in this way. it couldn't choose if Joker was a self-insert or his own character. in the beginning of the story, he's all cool and seems like his own guy, but the game also tries to play it both ways, it lets you name him and decide his feelings and the such at times. so, are we supposed to project? I guess so. yet suddenly, even if i've not been interested in flirting with girls the whole game, he'll oogle the girl's breasts in the desert cutscene like a incel pervert, even though he's APPARENTLY supposed to me be (even though his gender doesn't even match my own...)... so either go one way or the other! if he's going to be my self insert, fine. but if you want him to be his own person, then why are you giving my personality agency over his outside of cutscenes!? it's frustratingly inconsistent.
it's all kinda bothersome.
of course, there's also silent protagonists who AREN'T meant to be projected on, but that's just a personality of a character who is their own person, there's no real problem with it.
As a comparison to Zelda (silent) you've got Final Fantasy (not silent).
Both are fine... however, when you think about it..the more the designers leave OUT in defining the protagonist...the more it allows ME to imagine what they are like.
With link, I can imagine his attitude, speaking style, emotional outbursts...but with final fantasy, I already know Cloud is a jerk from the beginning.
By the way, all of Zelda's dialog in BotW was completely obnoxious to me. And I despise everything about all the sages and their dialog. I'd much rather have no story at all.
I don't think rpgs are your genre then. you should play hero shooters
@lightdarksoul2097 it's been a long time since I've heard anyone imply Zelda is an rpg. That's a whole other topic. It's a sure thing I've lost patience for turn based rpgs at least. FF9 might be the last one I played.
@@garshanarny yooo loved FF9 heres hoping that remake is good its my favorite FF
Yeah it's matter, we had Forspoken and Saint Row Reboot... this proves protagonist silent is really necessary and never heard any cringe dialogues.
Wanna cheer my protagonist, not feel like loser play with them.
While I don't think I'm as bothered by the silent protagonist as you are, I do agree that it is largely an outdated trope, and I have always found the "better immerse the player" argument to be quite flawed and misguided, as I find an unresponsive character to be much more immersion-breaking than one that reacts differently than I would have.
Personally I find cloud from ff7 annoying and the persona 4 protagonist super charming but that’s just me
Extreme disagree. I never want my protagonist in any game, ever, to speak. Selecting text-only responses could be okay. The last thing I want is to have to sit through my character delivering a line I don't relate with.
Oh wow!
I never liked silent protagonists. I think they're just an excuse for making in game conversations easier for the developers (Silent protagonist = less work)
I hate when protags don't talk, and them not talking does nothing to further immerse myself. I whether the player character is original or user created I want someone who REACTS to the world around them and to the people they talk to, because your character is part of the story and what freakin main character doesn't f***ing talk?? Whoever pitched that your character being mute helped the player better insert themselves... should get a paycut.
And yet people LOVE Link specifically because this lack of specificity has made him so open to interpretation as a character.
There's a reason Miyamoto got to the top as a game designer while you haven't.
No
100% prefer we drop silent protags in most cases. these characters are rarely relatable and far less interesting than the increasingly strong personalities surrounding them.
So you’re saying that you aren’t relatable or interesting and you have a weak personality. Because silent protags are supposed to be you
Heroic Mimes are a trope that should've died off years ago. If an open-ended RPG like Mass Effect can have a protagonist that speaks, there's no excuse for games that are far more linear.
Storytelling choices say hi
Screw the idea Mass Effect should be the standard
@@roskiart8750 I have no idea what you're talking about
@@otaking3582 That the idea a videogame protagonist should talk just because Shepherd does is kind of stupid, really.
@@roskiart8750 It's less stupid than having a video game protagonist be silent, though.
@@otaking3582 Not in the slightest. Being silent makes sense for many protagonists for a lot of reasons.