An episode or great moments and difficult choices. I’m left 🤔 Try lordofmaps.com/ today and use the promo code DANIELTHEGREENE for 15% off all products
I think that he has been healed for now but with the warning of don’t touch the dagger again then he might do something with padan fain next episode that he then might need a group heal to permanently separate him from it.
How are you with the amount of dialog? I feel like they are relying on facial expressions and music instead of just having people discuss issues or act as exposition.
You forgot to mention the totally unnecessary nudity in the bath scene: servants being half naked? They only dared to show silhouettes, which made that nudity even more unnecessary. 🙄
that scene was weird. Her reaction was unwarranted, as she didnt channel much when Moraine could see her. There is a book reason that could cover that hole, but it would make a bigger hole if they introduced it (but they should introduce it).
@@davidkymdell452 Moiraine and Lan talked together after meeting Logain and Moiraine said that she couldn't tell if Logain was stronger than Egwene. Which means that Moiraine knew that Egwene has intense potential. My money is that there was a deleted scene with their conversation on it before Shadar Logoth.
Very concerned how little Rand is involved in the main story so far. His development in the first book was one of identity crisis after a certain conversation with his father, and his conflict in wanting to remain a small town family man in light of him being forced to grow into who he becomes. Leaving out key moments of characterization for him in order to 'preserve the mystery' will only lead to an unsatisfactory conclusion. They haven't even really touched on his sword yet, which symbolizes his connection with Tam. Most of my non reader friends are not impressed with him on screen and hope he's not the Dragon... I feel they are building up a mystery for the sake of mystery, and no one will care about the reveal at all because there are no stakes or character build up in the show.
The actual tv series may have a different story order and pacing from the books. I do not think most people realize how large the books are and how much detail is contained.
Yep. In the book we kinda know who will be the dragon reborn due to POV, but it gets progressively more certain as we get clues (born outside of the two rivers, hair color unique and of a particular people, etc). The mystery for us is not "who" is the Dragon, but "what" it will truly mean for this country lout sheephearder whose life is no longer the same, and whose parents may not be biological. Who the Dragon is is only a mystery for the characters, not for us. In the show however, they're focusing so much on the mystery that they've had to deviate from the base material dramatically (I've always thought that Egwene and Nynaeve should be considered Ta'veren, but it's silly to think they could be the Dragon), and all of the main characters are suffering because of it. But Rand will suck most of all, because he is just a tall, hard working, friendly archer. No conflict to him - and the season is almost over.
@@rafaelb.m.4756 I agree. The whole premisse for RJ to write the books is not to write yet another hero trope tale - it is rather what someone would do if they were branded a hero and didn't have any say about it. What conflicts would arise? What would it do to you as a character? Book one already establishes the base for this, something which we miss in the first season up until now. Btw, be careful with how you word things, cause spoilers.
They only had 8 episodes to try to flesh everyone out and compared to the first book, they have succeeded in fleshing out the other 4, Moraine and the white tower better than in the first book. They should have given some key moments for Rand but as some of my non reader family mentions every episode... who is Rand and why is he so Bland. Atleast going into the heron marked blade meaning and maybe even Tams fever talks. That alone would have helped Rand be just as fleshed out.
It is a big deal that you now need the one power to open the waygate. That means that Ogier can't open a waygate and the ways was made for them! Why does they need Loial there?
They would need Loial to lead them through the ways but I agree the opening of the gate should have stayed truer to the book, they created problems for themselves later. Also the quick look into the ways was not even close to how it was described in the book.
@@greanne12 But why could Loial know how to navigate the Ways? He can't open the gate... So, his time inside the Ways is very, very limited (Unless there is a specific Ajah not mentioned in the books whose only task is to open the Gateways for Ogliers?). Even if they come up with something like the Ogiers have gathered this knowledge over the years... The question is, once again, how? they Can't open the Gates.. PS: The Gateways were created by men who could channerl, makes no sense for Women weaves to work on them either. :(
Show Fan Theory: The impression I get is that the Dark One is behind those dreams and he's making a play to take out the dragon nice and early by feigning weakness.
Show only fan here. Or possibly someone else is pretending to be the dark one and creating misleading dreams. Probably one of the forsaken ? Ishamael(Father of lies)?
@@hellgast0 They explicitly brought the forsaken up last episode with the little statues and have mentioned Ishamael twice specifically. It's a very astute show only observation to make. Otherwise why did the show mention it at all?
@@robbybevard8034 if they infer from that one short scene that one of the Forsaken can influence someone's dreams, I really want to hear their other theories then xD
I do consider the Way gate change a big deal. Multiple parties use the ways in several books. Making it require channeling changes a lot. It's actually a pretty big deal imo.
Also it doesn't make sense. They clearly are keeping the ways history since Machin Shin is there, and the Ogier Guidings...so how would the Ogier have used the ways if it required channeling to get in.
Hmm, it really does. Because if it requires channeling, how did the Trollocs get to Emond's Field in such great numbers? The Borderlanders wouldn't have let such a great force through. The Ways are specifically how the Darkspawn got around the Borderlanders and into the southern lands. Plus, it near completely invalidates Ogier guides in the Ways. If you need someone that can channel to open them, what purpose would Ogier have for being the guides?
@@Animalace3 To be fair, it was shown in the episode that they needed Loial to read the signs. It definitely makes sense that they would still need an Ogier guide to actually traverse the ways.
The best reaction to this episode was from a friend who hasn't read the books. She finished the episode and messaged me to say "I'm just saying if Mat had one of these bad boys at lot of problems could have been avoided" and she sent a picture of those backpack leashes that some people put on toddlers. I fully cackled. I will never forget the image of Rand pulling an angry little Mat with a backpack leash across the country on an adventure. It's stuck in my brain now
To fix the Mat situation, I would have added one conversation between Moraine and Lan: Moraine: "He is too sick to travel, I left him with ______ (my most trusted yellow friend), if anyone can save him it is her" Lan: "What if he is the dragon?" Moraine: "The odds are too great he is not for us to miss this chance. And if he is, we may all be doomed already" easy, clean, fits the books better anyway
The issue here is that you're approaching the problem as someone who's read the books and has a brain. You need to look at it from the perspective of the people making the show, who haven't read the books and are brain dead.
Considering how it all went down he was there with them on the hill. You don’t have time to magically reshoot huge amounts of scenes and he dipped the fuck out mid shooting. They did the best they could with what they had.
Specifically she pledges "allegiance" to Siaun rather than the Amyrlin Seat. Which is a change to Siaun's words that seemed to get missed. I would have thought at least one other person in that room would have picked that up.
@@nathanbaca5131 I was going to say exactlt that. Reminded me of, "Next time if you throw something down, make sure to throw yourself with it to rid us of your stupidity." It was something along those lines, I'm paraphrasing.
The room where she met Siuan wasn't her room, it appeared to be a recreation of a shack from her fishing village, which makes me think it was tel'aran'rhiod, because there was another of the doorway paintings in Siuan's room later, but not in the room they met in. Seems like those paintings were dream ter'angreal.
That was also my impression that it was something similar to the world of dreams, but I hate that they don't explain it at all. It makes it very confusing for non book readers, and even fans like myself were a bit confused. Considering how much deep and complex world building and concepts are in the story, every time it's made more confusing makes me more concerned that non book fans are going to be Confused and give up.
I was under the impression that Moraine and Siuan met in Tel’aran’rhiod. The ter’angreals seemed to be a way to step into the world of dreams. I didn’t think Siuan’s bedroom actually looked like that in the waking world. Also, they both end up wearing different clothing, which would reflect Tel’aran’rhiod more so than the limit threads all these characters seem to have in their wardrobe.
Did we see her bedroom in another scene? I don't think the room she met Egwene and Nyneave in was her bedroom. And why would they spend the night in the dream world? That's pretty weird.
I really hope it is neither traveling nor the dream world as those are both things which are supposed to be rediscovered from the age of legends later in the series
That was my first thought too, but she didn't go to sleep so I was like ok, what are we doing here? Is it real or tel'aran'rhiod? Eitherway, I think it's a very interesting path to take their relationship. I felt like it was little bit of a fanfic vibe to it, because I didn't remember it from the books, but Daniel said it was there so clearly I missed it. I always thought th to just be allies, but I like the take that they're lovers even more..
My biggest (avoidable) issue with the episode is the tears in the oath rod scene, and Moraine using all the fond nicknames like, “clever as a pike”. After all that work and acting they did to pull off this con, and to clearly break character in this pivotal scene… you don’t think ever Aes Sedai in that room would be like, “oh, I see what’s going on here”?
How I interpreted this scene: everyone knows that they were close when they both came to the tower, or even that they were pillow friends. Those appeals were Moiraine trying to move the Amyrlin to reduce her sentence, by appealing to their previous relationship, which, as far as everyone else knows, no longer exists. So, with this, they can show that the Amyrlin is very firm in her sentencing, not going easy because she was previously a Blue, and that Moiraine really doesn't want to leave, so the head of her Ajah can be convinced she really doesn't want this,
I felt the same way but then I remembered that Alanna hinted that many Aes Sedai knew they had a thing together as Novices, it is possible that they read it as a barb shot from a scorned once lover. It is petty but it's not like the Aes Sedai are not willing to be petty in certain situations.
My only explanation is that Moraine said that too low for anyone else to hear. But yeah, Siuan's tears should have been noticeable for everyone in the room and I also did not like that at all. I mean, book Siuan can handle that situation without crying for sure and the show had already made a really strong point of how close they are. So yeah, I agree.
There is no explanation. The writers think they know better than RJ so they've completely changed the series. This isn't even the Wheel of Time anymore. It's plagiarism.
Requiring channeling to open the waygate isn't really a small issue. It makes zero sense regarding their history, and messes up the Two Rivers stuff that happens later
As a non-book reader and baby fan, I look forward to your episode breakdowns every week. I really appreciate your efforts to integrate us non-book / new fans into the strong WoT fanbase by explaining a lot of the lore and background thoroughly without any spoilers. It makes new fans like me feel included and not super overwhelmed at a) not being a fan earlier and being intrusive into the strong fanbase, and 2) the rich lore of WoT. Keep your WOT coming Daniel, thank-you so much. For me my favorite parts of this episode were 1) seeing more of Moiraine's multidimensional personality, particularly her relationship with Siuan. She felt more manipulative yet raw in this episode, and I love that combination in a character, especially women, and 2) the use of portals, particularly The Way gate. The "lightning" sounds coming out from that was really eerie, I loved it.
I'm kinda afraid that their focus on trying to obscure who the dragon is might ruin some things as it is going on. Plus, I really don't feel the pacing in this one. We're missing so much by Mat already having been healed or Rand not meeting Morgase, imo.
We do not know what structure the series and episodes are going to take. Many here do not seem to realize that most people who are watching the series have not read the books.
@@bighands69 sure and I tend to defend many issues the series has due to this. I even like some changes that were made, some were really great. But still...call me old-fashioned, but I think the fans of the books should remain as the main target audience if you discuss changes being made and some changes right now seem to go in a dangerous direction. I'm not saying that anything is ruined, just that, while episodes 2-5 made me less cautious, this one brings me back to the point were episode 1 left me...dreading that this might end up less than optimal.
I would say we aren't missing much not seeing Morgase or Elayne just yet. They aren't really essential to the first book and are just in it for a short time. Holding off till Season 2 for Elayne makes so much sense as that's when she becomes part of the story anyway.
Unlike lotr or harry potter I'm just not feeling this series- at heart it's just not what the books were, it's more extreme and it just lacks a certain wholesome magic yk?
. . .why? Are you clinging to some small semblance of the books because the rest is woke garbage that destroyed canon? If so, I understand. Otherwise, this is woke garbage.
@@lmattd The possibility of a woman dragon. It was never possible. Race swapping characters. A racially diverse two rivers. Changing back stories. Imposing homosexuality. Over sexualization of characters. Males looking weak and incapable while women appear strong and capable. Would you also like specific examples for each? All instances listed have multiple examples to chose from. Specifically. Robert Jordan wrote a diverse world. Leftist writers puked woke nonsense all over it to make it even more diverse.
I would love specific examples. Because you are not coming across as a person that knows what you are talking about. There was homosexuality in the books. There are strong male characters in the show. The books were racially diverse.
@@lmattd Gladly. It seems to me as if YOU have no idea what YOU'RE talking about, so I'll educate you. 1. There was never a possibility of a woman Dragon. It is impossible as per the canon. The one power is linked to your soul. See Halima/Aran'gar for proof. When resurrected by the dark one into a females body, Halima still channeled Saidin. 2. Perrin is described by Faile as having "alabaster skin." Nynaeve is described by Elayne as having "Dark Blue Eyes." Suian and Lan, too. Blue eyed characters race swapped. 3. The reclusive Two Rivers, virtually unchanged for 1000 years, is somehow racially diverse? Ha ha. No. Unless they're segregated. Is the Two Rivers a segregated village? 4. Nynaeve was raised by her father, a hunter and trapper. Hence her tracking skills. Mats dad is a horse trader and expert with a quarterstaff. Not a drunken womanizer. 5. Yes, there was homosexuality. But we've seen more of it in 6 episodes than we read about in all the books, combined. Don't pretend like Moraine and Suian having secret smash sessions is even remotely canon. 6. Egwene was dead weight for the whole first book. Useless. It's part of her marvelous character arc. From useless but with potential, to a novice, to a damane, to a wise one, to the greatest Amyrlin to have ever existed, inventing a weave to heal the pattern of balefire and rediscovering talents. Anything else you need educated on...? Did you have anything specific you wanted to discuss or disagree with? As I said, RJ wrote a diverse world already. It didn't need to be more diverse. It's wholly unnecessary and does NOTHING to forward the plot of the story. Why are you people like this? Did you even read the books? Any of them?
Re: The Aes Sedai calmness The point about acting makes a lot of sense. I would add to that with they also need to convey that the thngs happening are extraordinary to the audience, and those minor reactions are indicative of that. I feel like they can strike a balance. To the public, Aes Sedai can present as stoic and unshakeable. But in their private meetings, they can be more...human.
I think we've seen a lot of stoicism so far, especially from Moirane. Go back to episode 1 on winter night. She's demolishing trollocs and has a very neutral expression throughout. I think 1) Aes sedia do show more in private than public 2) they are showing just how unconventional and severe the actions of Siuan are by having small gasps and facial expressions. It's not that Aes sedai don't have emotions. In some ways, I like to think they have stronger emotions than most non channelers, but they only show the tip of the iceberg as it were outwardly.
the gasps and facial expressions are ok on private meetings but Siuan shedding tears for Moiraine in public was waaaaay to much. If her power is in question that just emboldened everyone that was there.
I mean... you can't have every woman in that scene act like a vulcan. The audience that hadn't read the books would think they were all insane and they'd piece out in a second. Again - what works in the written word doesn't necessarily work in a visual medium. Adjustments have to be made. Are Aes Sedai and Warders calm, emotionless and stoic? When it comes to the REST of the characters in the show? Yeah. Relatively speaking they are. What they can't be on TV are emotionless robots. I think the main complaint of the show of people who don't get this is that the show was made. At all. The show they wanted would have been impossible to make. No adaptation of a fantasy novel, or novel in general, was unaltered when it made the transition to a screen big or small. Why should The Wheel of Time be any different?
It is really sad that Barney Harris had to leave, I honestly was the most invested in Mat. I really wanted to see this character grow. At the same time, I thought it was kind of nice to have this typical "party comes together to go on a journey" moment but then one of the character just being like "nah, I'm not really vibing with this"
Yeah tbh I didn’t know this was due to the script and to me if just felt like a dealt out there but cool twist. I think knowing too much about the outside goings on and the books too is colouring a lot of these reviews which can sometimes help but also means the story itself just as a story isn’t getting to be enjoyed the same way it does for those of us who haven’t read it and are just taking the series as it comes. I get why though as that’s how I felt watching Dune. I was honestly pretty miserable at times as I watched them strip things out of the book that just really made the movie falter. But I do think from what I have seen the changes in the wheel of time series have been done very well
I just wish the Emondsfield 5 had more to do, Rand has litteraly been just sitting in a room for two hours now. They feel sidelined and this is supposed to be their story. Got two more hours to go but, idk. It feels like the show is missing a lot of the charm that was in the books. A lot of the stuff we have gotten is cool but not really necessary this early in the shows run. The main focus I feel should be on the Emondsfielders and it hasn't felt that way for a few episodes now.
If they wanted the Moraine show, they should have done New Spring. Then they could make up crap to their heart's content to get from New Spring to EotW, and then start WoT in season 2. Not like this won't be cancelled before the end anyway.
@@nathanmorgan3647 or they could have just kept some of the mystery that is so intriguing when reading about Moiraine in the books and saved more of her development for down the road like it is in the books. I get wanting the big name actors to have more to do but part of the appeal about older characters like Moiraine and Lan and Suian is they have layers to them. They slowly get revealed over 3 or 4 books and that's something that is missing as well in my opinion. The cast is carrying the show for me right now.
Huge problem for me in this episode (minor spoilers for later books): Suan’s actions in this episode really feel like later book Elaida. The 4th oath that moraine gives is so similar to elaida’s fourth oath proposition, which is seen as horrifying and close to compulsion. She seems extremely out of character for me in the show
Totally agree, biggest issue I've had so far in the show because of how much it goes against the underlying value structure of Siuan, Egwene etc.. I can't believe how wrong they got that, even if you haven't read the books, you could infer the slippery moral slope of using the oath rod all willy nilly
The show has nothing to do with the books. The entire core of what the characters are has been violated. The core lore has been destroyed. This show most definitely should NOT be called the Wheel of time. It's one thing to drop small elements of the story to adapt a story to a different medium. This is NOT adaptation, this is rewriting. And sadly, the writers are infinitely less talented than Robert Jordan. But even if they had been talented, this level of rewriting should not use the title of the original IP. As far as I'm concerned it's stealing someone else's work. So not only the writers and showrunner talentless, they have a serious lack of moral fibre.
@@Taveren It has nothing to do with the books except some basic concepts of the One Power... The characters have nothing to do with who they really are. Hollywood writers seem to think that "subverting" is being creative. This is wrong. It only works in some scenarios where it is appropriate. You're making a parody, subverting is fine. You want to show how reality works as opposed to fiction... subvert expectations by having characters behave in accordance to their established personalities even if it subverts the reader/viewer's expectations.... (like in Ned Stark's execution, and the Red Wedding). Those are creative subversions. The difference is that when you are adapting a story to screen, you no longer need to be creative storytellingwise. The story is already told, all you have to do is retell it... the only creativity required or necessary comes into presenting some information that was narrated. Dialogues should not be changed... storylines should not be changed. Making your own (inferior) story and slapping someone else's IP name on it doesn't make you a creator. It either makes you lazy (not bothering to read the books you're supposed to adapt), or a thief (taking advantage of someone else's populartiy/work to push your own "work" ). Sadly, this is the path that screenwriters choose to take. The only adaptations of novels that have been successful, is when the story has been faithfully reproduced (and yes, with some changes pertinent to the medium), like the Lord of the Rings, and the first couple of seasons of Game of Thrones (particularly the first season). The further the "creatives" stray away from the source material, the worse the work becomes (The Hobbit, later seasons of Game of Thrones). There is a message there.... those original works became popular for a reason. If you want to retell the story to a new medium then just do that "retell" the story in a new medium. Making up your not story is NOT what fans of the original work want to see. It will result in the vast majority of the cases in an inferior product.
What got me about that Oath was that Moraine swore to Suian, not to the Amyrlin Seat. Therefore, if the Amyrlin is changed while Moraine is gone from the Tower, no demand from the Amyrlin can force her to obey that Oath. Only Suian can demand she return. Weird change, but I'm sure the show has some reason for it, or at least I hope they do. Mandarb, Aldieb, Bela, & all the other horses (with saddles & bridles left on) are just set loose while most of the gang go jaunting off through a mysterious gateway, leaving Mat behind. So, does he finally become the horse trader he bragged about being in a previous episode? ;-)
I was going to say this - how did no one cry foul, and also they are supposed to hate each other and it was obvious to anyone that the AS was losing her composure at having to exile Moiraine. Just.... hmmmm a terrible scene (not badly acted)
@@dwsb No book reader here. I don't know how much every order (?) of the Aes Sedai know about the internal politics of the other orders but the head of the blues wanted Moiraine in the tower. Breaking the plans of the blues showed that she didn't favor that particular order. Giving Moriane an excuse to travel again is the intended consecuence but a bonus is a bonus.
The Oath rod addition is one of the most abysmal, clumsy, stupid, and downright evil additions they made. The implications are insanely vast. As any oath you swear is IMPOSSIBLE to break, bound by the power, swearing an oath of fealty makes you a slave. Moira one now cannot refuse to obey Siuan in ANYTHING. If she says “stop breathing”, Moiraine will. This was NOT needed, and opens up a freaking Walmart full of can of worms. The other Aes Sedai should have deposed her instantly for even suggesting to make another Aes Sedai swear on the Oath rod. It is evil. I can understand that most non-book fans don’t make this connection immediately, but it is the equivalent of having Gandalf murdering the Rohan king because he is possessed. It is vastly out of character, and an evil thing he would never do.
@@johns70 Suian didn't ask for an oath of fealty, though. She ordered Moiraine to swear that she would respect the terms of her exile until the Amyrlin rescinded it. Moiraine made a point of swearing to obey Suian.
mat staying back and what happens arround barney harris is just heartbreaking. It just feels wrong, not just from an adaptation standpoint, but also for everything the show has done so far with the character. I really hope they can get over this huge hurdle
Barney Harris was such a great cast for the role too. His face really matches how I pictured Mat - pretty boy with that perpetual hint of a smile - and pulled off the role as outwardly never concerned about anything, mischievous playboy during the first couple of episodes really well. I hope he just didn't want to commit to this potentially huge commitment so early in his career (typecasting is a thing), and not some personal problems getting in the way - you know, drugs, alcohol, depression...
@@Chairay I don't think he left because of possible typecasting. if that would'Ve been an issue he probably wouldn't have accepted the role in the first place. you can't accept a role such as this without expecting to play this character for a long time. I hope everything is ok as well, but that or some differnces of opinion (like disagreement about vaxinations) are the only things that I can think of that would cause him to disapear so suddenly.
@@danielflintknapping *MORE SPOILERS* ... If they hadn't done it out of necessity, I'd have said this is where they reveal that he was in fact not fully healed, and succumbed to the dagger pulling him back, or being able to feel Machin Shin in the ways (leaning into the fan-theory that Machin Shin and the Shadar Logoth corruption are related.) But now everyone is theorizing about how this could lead into an explanation for a new actor, and I don't really see how they could pull that off other than making him disappear for a while, and then reintroduce him with something like literally changing bodies (like the forsaken later in the book series.) I am a little underwhelmed by how they pulled off necessary changes/reductions in story and characters so far tbh, so I am not sure they will be able to make some good decisions more or less on their feet about this problem.
Speculation alert: Here's how I would handle the Mat situation. Mat was only partially healed by Moiraine, and is still strongly drawn to the dagger. That's why he stayed behind, because he couldn't bear to leave the dagger, which is locked away in the tower. So while the others go on their adventure to the Eye of the World, Mat slinks back to the Tower and is caught trying to break in to get the dagger. The Yellow sisters then heal him thoroughly, by a process so intense it alters his physical appearance! Once Mat's healed, Siuan knows he's a potential Dragon, so she can't let him leave. Maybe she hires him to work in the stables just to stall him, while a gang of warders keeps trying to recruit him because he's pretty good with a bow staff. After a little while, it's time for Siuan's official state visit to Shienar (how convenient) so she takes Mat along, unaware that Padan Fain is following. Once Mat is reunited with the group, let The Great Hunt begin.
Nah, it would be absolutely awful if they tried to tie the recast into the story. You dont want the viewers to be EVEN MORE distracted by it by bringing it up, not to mention not making any sense. Theres been plenty of major recasts in plenty of shows and films, and the viewers deal with it
One issue I had - they could’ve just let Mat be sick, instead of Moiraine healing him. Could have left him with the Yellows to heal. Start season 2 with the new Mat getting healed, screaming in the old tongue yada yada.
I don’t get the impression that he’s fully healed yet, and given how abruptly the actor left, they probably didn’t have a chance to film a scene setting that up.
I think leaving Mat sick rather than having Moiraine heal him (for now, as I got the impression it didn’t fully work) messes up the character arcs for both Nyneave and Rand. Healing Mat proved to Rand that he can trust Moiraine if a man can channel. It also smacked Nyneave’s Aes Sedai prejudice down hard. Without those character development moments, I don’t see Rand and Nyneave both going through the portal at the end of the episode, as both have been too contrary to Moiraine before the healing. Changing that scene might have made Mat’s exit easier, but might have screwed up other storylines too drastically to be worth it.
They could have had Moiraine say she couldn't manage to heal him completely, just like in the books. But since they didn't, I'm guessing they are planning something more dramatic, ie Mat touches the dagger again and becomes fully possessed by Mordeth or just irreversibly possessed by the black stuff. Then Nynaeve refuses to give up on Mat, and manages to awaken the old blood in him, enough to overpower the black stuff and gradually consume it instead like a fertilizer.
To be truthful, I have been deeply unsatisfied with this show. They have cut or changed things so much that I no longer can compare book characters to show. Nynaeve is probably the only one that feels the same to me. The real problem is fast tracking to Tar Valon and skipping Caimlyn. I gritted through the changes in the early episodes because changes are necessary, but now it doesn't feel like the wheel of time. It is, but a warped imitation with added drama and terribly placed info dumps. They needed to let the characters breath longer and not have tried to pack the entire book into one season. I am probably going to drop the show and just read the book for the fifth time.
Stop comparing the books to the show and finally realise that it's an adaptation, not a like-for-like (which would never be possible anyway) and you'll enjoy it more, guaranteed.
@@livewia oh I totally understand that. And I have tried to not compare, but it has been really hard. Sadly, I am a completionist so I will probably continue to torture myself and complete the season. I am hoping for my brain to compartmentalize this as just another fantasy show and stop comparing what I had imagined to what is. I have also not read the whole series and I just might enjoy the later seasons.
@@VultureClone no it's not problem solved. It's a fucking disaster of a show and we should all hope it gets cancelled. It's not just a VERY poor adaptation - it's a bad show in general.
Edit: Possible spoiler! Seems like people keep confusing Ba'alzamon with the dark one. I suspect Siuan has "visions" from Ba'alzamon, (whom she and the others think is the dark one) where he's trying to lure her to send the dragon to the eye of the world, so Ba'alzamon can get his hands on the Dragon before they come into their power. Just a thought.
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS Ba'alzamon IS the dark one, it's just another name for him. The confusion in the books is that everyone keeps mistaking Ishamael for Ba'alzamon - including Ishamael, who is going mad due to channelling the True Power for too long. All of the times with the guy with the firey eyes is Ishamael.
@@matscales Spoilers Ba'alzamon is Ishamael, it was the name he was given during the trolloc wars. Because of how he was sealed away he could manifest every 1000 years for a few decades and during the trolloc wars he appeared and lead the armies under the name ba'alzamon. Ishamael likely thought he was the dark one because of his madness, however ba'alzamon was definitely Ishamael.
I found the way they dropped Mat really clunky. Like, my first thought when Daniel mentioned that is why didn't they just say he needed a lot of time to recover from the dagger?
They couldnt do that because they explained that all possible dragons need to be at the eye of the world.. If mat was the dragon and they left him behind for healing, the whole plan would be a disaster. So the show wrote itself into a corner with barney harris leaving.
@@JustScrapHD But he did not go and Moiraine said nothing at the end so was he really needed. And if its really needed then show a clip of him walking in with them taken from the walking clips with him and rand then next episode say he got lost in the ways and have the people calling out for him.
I’m fine with most changes for the sake of show length. The waygates requiring channeling is weird though, because if I remember right the waygates were pretty much for non channellers because channellers could just Travel. It’s weird. Also the old waygate design was more classic fantasy which I liked more and fit with the Ogier.
I also am confused why they decided to put in so much filler and plot from book 2 if they were short on time. Why did they need to cut out so many actually important scenes but did have time for all that drama with that random warder last episode, Siuan's backstory, etc? They had plenty of time, they just haven't used it well.
@@Mugdorna Loial would still be reqired to navigate the Ways. And it's always possible that, after the Ways became tainted, the Waygate at Tar Valon was warded, so the One Power is needed to enter that particular gate.
@@toneycallis3783 it’s a very clever way to add a little to the character and it being a fig that she was smelling after coming out of that space too just felt like it added soo many layers. It wasn’t a simple Apple or something, it was a sumptuous fig and it really added to showing how the link can influence how the group acts. Just such a good little detail that I have rolled over in my head just like she did with it in her hand in that scene really taking it in.
10:10 Did anyone else think they met in the world of dreams? Siuan’s room looks different then it did when Nynaeve and Egwene go to meet her. Could be totally wrong though!
I assumed they warped straight to the hut where Siuan grew up. I mean you can see its made of something like bamboo, thats definetly not a room in the tower
It's definitely Tel'aran'rhiod, in my opinion. Later in the episode they show Siuan's chambers in the Tower and she also has the same Ter'angreal in her room (unless we are to believe Siuan is in Moraine's Chambers, which I can't buy).
@@jlvanvalk It's two Ter'angreal in the books, but Novices chatting to each others is also fairly common which if memory serves is how that set that up in the books.
Sending young women on their own to the tower was quite common in the books. It's mentioned many times and also contributed to the white towers dwindling power levels. They eventually stopped going around as much looking for women who can Channel and instead sat in the tower expecting all of them to come to the tower on their own.
Those young women won't make it to the tower tho. The odds that a 13 year old (or however old she's supposed to be, it's confusing to me cause she don't seem to have curves yet but she's channeling and that shouldn't be possible at all) manages to make those few thousand km's travel from Tear to the Tower are practically non-existent, especially going through a land where channeling is a crime.
Which also explains why the Whitecloaks are roaming around outside the tower: what better way to destroy your enemy than capture and kill their recruits before they become trained?
@Anne Day tbh i always read this as hinting that the people who lived to become aes sedai in this age were almost exclusively Ta'Veren. It would explain the White Towers reputation and impact on the world, in consideration with certain things we know about the numbers of channellers in the world.
@Anne Day none of the Ajahs are useless, we just dont see their roles demonstrated properly because theres a lot to cover in the books. The white tower is an analogy for the white house, or a similar style of government, and each of the Ajahs is somewhere between a political party, and an infrastructural branch of the govt. The greys handle foreign relations and social issues, the whites handle legal and infrastructural issues, the browns and yellows are the Academic branches, the green are the military, the reds are the cops, and the blues are the cia/fbi.
As a book reader I’m having a very difficult time watching this series as a stand-alone show and I’m trying to enjoy it. But so many things bothering me.
As a non-book reader, I am thoroughly enjoying the show. Maybe the showrunners are doing a good job with the adaptation because I honestly have very few gripes so far, and none of them are that serious.
As a non-book reader, I’m pretty much done with the show. Seeing how badly they’ve messed this up makes me worried for the LOTR middle earth series still in the works. I may not have read Wheel of Time but I consider myself a huge fan of high fantasy and this show is disappointing.
Something that they could do, since we haven't had a whole lot of Aes Sedai interacting with outsiders yet; is they have that serene calmness outwardly, but drop that mask when it's just Sisters in the room. That kind of code switching would be realistic and reasonable to pull off.
@@JaysSavvy A 40% possibility that, granted, is nowhere in the books. How about that single movie condensing 7 books called The Dark Tower? Money changed hands, we get to live with it.
@@calebdrew5684 "We get to live with it." Peasant sentiment. You only "have to live with it" because you don't have the testicular fortitude to voice your disgust.
@@JaysSavvy Blowing in the wind needs balls, wow. What kind of retribution do you expect? I seen all kinds of bs on the web, but patting yourself on the back for making tantrums is peak internent for sure.
While the oath rod scene was a little odd, I *did* like how they had Moiraine reword the oath such that she doesn't actually swear the oath to the Amyrlin, but to specifically Suian. Gives her wiggle room in the future if there are, umm, staff changes.... While Mat's exit doesn't fit with Moiraine's claims, there's a bright side: we now have an avenue to keep Bela tied to the story XD. Hey, now he *can* be a horse trader!
I loved the change to Siuan, but I hated that she included all the little nuances in it, like "clever as a pike", etc., because if any Sister who is politically savvy (and they're in the Hall of the Tower, those should be Sitters in that room with the Amyrlin, so they'd *better* be politically savvy) is immediately going to realize that there's much, much more to Siuan and Moiraine's relationship than what the two have made apparent.
@@paradoxdriver4094 yeah agreed. I think they want us to believe she was speaking too low for others to hear, but still, why would you risk blowing your cover?
Just putting it out there that the name "Amyrlin Seat" mean both the chair and the authority/position is taken directly from Roman Catholicism where the position of the Pope (and also the chair) is called the Holy See. The Amyrlin is just the Aes Sedai Pope.
Moiraine did heal him in Caemlyn but didn't completely cut him from the dagger but I get how it would be less complicated in the TVshow to just have her cut the dagger away fully now and have Mat get a hold of the dagger again at a later date and it being really bad. It would make sense in that scenario how the second time it's a lot worse and would require more sisters.
Also, maybe they cut that out entirely. Now May already has that memory loss and that confused him at the end, therefore he did not enter the ways. It has to be because of the dagger, otherwise Mat is a very loyal and reliable person, he would never do that.
@@ToweringPsychic uhm matt is shown to try to bail multiple times in the first few books and the only thing that keeps him is the ta'veren bond. It why I was so puzzled about people liking Mat so much as I was reading the books. He has changed but initially he would have bailed on everyone given half a chance.
@@damp2269 Mostly because of the dagger. Nynaeve and Egwene discuss about his reliability too. Once the dagger’s effect is gone, I don’t remember him bailing on anyone. Oh, he talks about bailing quite a lot, but he never does.
I have the feeling that the meeting between Siuan and Moraine wasn't in Siuan's rooms. I believe it was her home in Tear and they are "dreaming". I love your channel. Thanks for your work.
I agree that that's the most sensible explanation, but Dreaming belongs to Egwene as part of her journey and specifically is not a power familiar to the Aes Sedai. They're opening up all sorts of plot holes by making it happen in a Dream. Why would Egwene go to the Wise Ones if she can learn all about Dreaming from Aes Sedai in the Tower?
@@definitelynotobama6851 I also thaught it was a dream. (or her home in tear). Defenetly not her room in the Tower. You could justify it that its an angreal only moraine and Siuan new. They arent instantly experts in it. The wise ones would say they are foolish and ignorant of the dangers (tipical Aes Sedai). So the whise ones are stil neaded.
Agree. And in the scene with Siuan meeting the Two Rivers girls, you can see her Ter'angrel that matches Moraine's (but with a different picture) (15:23)
I didn't think it was a dream because Moiraine didn't go to sleep. She used that terangreal to open a portal. I assumed Siuan has a secret hideaway away from the tower and they meet there.
They both used matching ter'angreals to go to a third location in the dreamworld where they could be alone without being discovered. Both have the same painting frame in their rooms and the location they meet at is most definitely not Suian's quarters in the tower.
I think the need to channel to open the Waygate is actually a pretty big deal, given that the Ways were originally designed - in the books at least - as a gift to the Ogier, to be used by people who couldn't Travel.
This is nitpicking but I also hated how Loial wasn't hesitant to go into the ways. In the books he absolutely did not want to go jn there and was afraid of the black wind. But here jn the show he's just like oh the ways are cool its another dimension in time and space then just heads inside. Loials warning and fear in the book really gave a sense of dread about the ways and they just fucking blew that
I think the series suffers from its limitation, the season should have been 10 episodes. As I have been commenting, the problem with me and this series is the lack of development in the four protagonists with what the series opened. The series did not enter its journey, or tribulations, dealing with the separation or its circumstances, it simply did a time skip. So for me ... The ending didn't have a strong impact (I'm not a reader). If we had spent more time with Mat and Rand trying to deal with what was happening to him, it would have been different. Anyway ... For me, they should have focused more on the trip. Extend the season two more episodes to be able to develop the characters to a good level. And so, make us care about their decisions. I said it in the previous episode, they focused too much on creating a good worldbuilding without falling into info dump, than on developing the central characters. For something the most developed characters are those central to worldbuilding. They benefited from being present. To love the series, I needed more Rand and Mat; Egwene and Perrin on the roads. P.D: Watching the episode I remembered that Mat's actor left the series and will be recast. And I felt it ... It was my favorite of the group. u_u
With thc next episode being "the dark along the ways" perhaps we'll get more traveling together character interactions that we missed during the month time jump. The majority of episode may be dedicated to that.
@@janlanik2660 Yes, there is still time in the future, but the point is that we are in the final act of the first season and I know more about the dynamic between Alanna and her two ward than the dynamic between Rand-Mat-Perrin-Egwene.
I get the feeling that this whole first season felt like "we want to tell a complete story, and we don't know if we're going to get 1 season to do that or several"
Except they turned down an offer of more episodes (so I hear) and rush-cut the story so that any impact of the climax will be muted, and the show would be forgotten as a lame generic fantasy.
I'm very probably wrong about that then. Still when you have the entirety of episode 5 that does nothing for the plot, world, or characters... they cut so much and have nothing to show for it.
@@joshuasigelman8141 Maybe they were there in the flesh? Also if I recall correctly, Siuan had a similar looking painting in her “normal” room, instead of the one that looked like her childhood home. This would also suggest towards t’a’r, or similar.
@@Scuderia47 by themselves. But if they are using a ter’angreal, they could use it in the show. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they changed that for the show as well.
Suan was a horrific tyrant in this episode. Her punishment of Logaine was not at all how gentled men are treated, even a false dragon, and she even spoke of men who “dare to channel” as if it was their fault, which is something a red would say. And of course there’s the “my tower, my city, my world” line which puts her up as a monstrous dictator. And binding someone to obedience with the oath rod is a horrifying suggestion in the books that would have instantly turned everyone against her. Oh, and her whole handling of the situation with Moiraine was unbelievably stupid, making a scene for no good reason (could easily have just said she has no right to interfere with blue business) and then blaming it on Moiraine, who did nothing but refuse to give away all their plotting when Suan seemed to be trying to force her to. This episode was heaps upon heaps of stupid and fell flat as a 2/10 for me. Just about the only positive I can think of is that the exorcism was done incredibly well, as inaccurate as it is and as problematic as the implications are for the future.
@@VultureClone Eh, it's been enjoyable overall for me, but it's hard being a fan of the books and not recognizing dumb changes that add no value while still finding it enjoyable. For instance, Moraine has violated the 3 oaths, twice or alternatively, Aes Sedia are dumb as bricks now. The attempt at keeping things mysterious on the Dragon is causing a cascade of poor narrative choices.
Without spoiling too much, I’m pretty confident Siuan’s dream is going to be a trap by a character we’ve seen before. The Oath Rod stuff didn’t bug me since you have to find ways to introduce this to new viewers somehow. Maybe not the most elegant solution but not a big deal for me.
@@icedadx44x My understanding is that they filmed that scene after his departure and after COVID shut down filming for a bit. He was clearly supposed to enter the Ways with them, so they didn't really have an opportunity to set up much foreshadowing to him being left behind.
Suian's dream definitely felt more like she was given that dream by a certain someone. Also, about the Mat scene. While I get Barney wasn't around after for the last 2, the scene itself feels more like they had something else planned. After all if he never returned at all, he couldn't have done that scene afterwards. It also felt a little awkward that it cut away, and that Moiraine wasn't worried, or that everyone was saying hurry. I imagine the original plan was to have him dash forward and make it in the last second. But when they returned to film the last 2, things had to be shuffled. Though I am wondering if Donal showed up for those last 2 or not. Moiraine just seemed to chill. Plus, I mean, she can just reopen it straight away right? Guess we'll find out next episode.
Yeah it all makes sense, but I believ it was just incredibly unfortunate what happened there, they probably really couldn't have done it in a different way, the plan was obviously a different one, I think we'll just have to forgive that :(
There is a reason why nobody uses the ways anymore. They could fit in a scene where the crumbling state or a certain lurking entity forces them forward. That scene might be a bit clunky but it might let us hurry the plot in the ways along. Don't get me wrong, the ways are cool but I don't want to spent the majority of the episode there...
I think they overthought their reasons to go to the Eye. They could have just added a line to the Karatheon Cycle. Moiraine could say "Dunno which of these 5 is our Dragon" and Siuan could say "The Dragon will be revealed at The Eye of the World" and Moiraine goes "Road Trip!"
one of these 4 - Nyneave cannot be the Dragon Reborn - she is too old. One of the next 2 episodes is going to be the flashback to the Aiel War, which will take a significant chunk of screentime. Besides, the whole concept of the Dragon is strictly a male thing. Claiming it could be female is like claiming Birgitte can be male. The wheel doesn't genderbend the heroes.
@@aidangrey00 What ? Where did you get that idea from ? Ameresu is a hero bound to the Wheel, not a The Dragon from the past. She's even there when... SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS Mat blows the Horn of Valere. SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS RJ himself stated that the Dragon's soul is always Male, regardless of the turning of the wheel because souls are gendered in his universe and can't change.
There's supposed to be a lot more Ta'veren motivation for going to the Eye... They would have been better off going to Shayol Ghul and accidentally arriving at the Eye instead.
I think show-Nynaeve lost her parents in the Aiel War, too, so flashbacks to the Aiel War might make both Rand and Nynaeve seem more likely candidates. The reference to being hidden in a cellar as a little girl seems to imply it. Her parents couldn't be from caerhein, though - the caerheinin are the only people consistently described as pale in the books, I think, so there's probably even more mysterious backstory there which I'm looking forward to discovering!
I liked how when Moiraine is drinking tea in that little alcove all the teacups on other tables are still steaming- looks like everyone booked it out of the way of Moiraine! Book 1 spoilers: Moiraine does partially heal Mat in book 1! Also I think Siuan is being persuaded by a certain someone to lead the dragon into a TRAP. I also loved how Egwene starts to puff up with pride when Siuan is talking about Nyn being a powerful channeler, I died laughing at that cause that’s just so accurate to Egwene
Spoiler i guess or smth. Yeah, i agree with the trap. since suian is no dreamer its bugged me when she stated she had dreams. unless they changed the whole dreamworld mechanics that means her dreams had to be invaded. On a different note: i think in this episode we got foreshadowing of liandrin working with seanchan. that man in northharbor... i mean... a red... seeing a man.... pressXtoDoubt.jpeg
She does partially heal Mat in the books, but they were in Caemlyn and she knew she had to bring him to the Tower. Here they are already in Tar Valon, so it's a bit odd, unless again she knows way less than in the books like with the prophecies.
@@knz730 exactly it’s a bunch of these idiots doing this this like read the book and stick to it if the show is annoying you. Matt’s actor was superb and I’m sad to see him go. 😩
@@knz730 perhaps it is because, like the sword of truth and shannara, the showrunners are absolutely fucking up Jordans work. There are so many "creative license" arguments that can be made before what is being produced is no longer what was originally created. This is legalized plaguerism, and shows based on books have a duty to the readers first, as they are the base you are trying to appeal to in order to produce a financially viable television show. $10 million per episode is going to get this cancelled if the reader base leaves.
@@knz730 I do in fact quite enjoy to shit on this dumpster fire of a tv show yes. The show is just plain terrible. A crime against WoT readers, Robert Jordan and humanity in general.
Mentioning the excellent part where Swan is saying "we have one of the most powerful channelers of all time before us" and seeing Iguanes face thinking that she's receiving a compliment, then the moment Nyneves name is said she's just dumbfounded. I was cracking up! Also, the part where Nuneves like "Are you done blowing smoke up our asses?" TO THE AMYRLIN SEAT
12:30 My understanding was that they had a problem trying to figure out which of those kids was actually the Dragon. Siuan Sanche's plan to solve it was (paraphrasing) "Hey let's take them all up to the Dark One's Prison and see which one the Dark One freaks out over!" Also, I think the Angreal info will come out next season when certain persons get their Aei Sedai training. We will all be schooled then.
I didn't mind moiraine having to swear an oath, but then swearing it like a lover saying farewell felt very weird given they're in the hall of the tower and everyone can hear
@@f.carasind4188 from an outsider's perspective it can be seen as Moiraine giving even more disrespect to Siuan by laying it on thick, but not being so blatant that it gets her punished. Or as an acknowledgment that Moiraine actually has no ill-will towards Siuan even in penance by emphasis of describing her the way that she did before getting exiled. Or, a typical Aes Sedai thought, as Moiraine purposely messing with everyone in the hall by subtly implying that they're still close, even though they know that cannot be the case in any circumstance. You have to remember that it is said that Aes Sedai invented Daes Dae'mar, and Moiraine, born a noble of a king's house, has been playing it her whole life. Aes Sedai overthink these situations in circles, in my eyes what she said to Siuan was fitting and emotionally resonant
Are we not gonna talk about the fact that Moiraine clearly says “I didn’t know she could channel” which is either a flat out lie if she didn’t know Nynaeve could, or lore breaking for the magic system because women can feel that almost instantly when in contact with each other.
I think in this instance, She got around lying By saying she didn't "know" but had her "suspicions". Knowing would be if she saw her channel or something close.
*SPOILER* ... Well, considering that Nynaeve is blocking herself and is only able to channel in certain circumstances, and given they keep that in the show, that could be an explanation for why Moiraine could not tell right away. Might not be perfectly in line with book canon, but not the biggest problem I have with the storyline so far. I'd rather like to know how the Liandrin's accusations were a big deal in the first place. "She didn't tell us about the trollocs in the 2 rivers while she was on the run, bringing 2 new channellers to the tower! booohooo" and "She didn't tell us one of them could channel, when this was the first time she did it in Moiraine's presence, and none of us could tell before that either - boo-double-hoo" - and how would Moiraine refusing to give her motives for her presence in the two rivers ever warrant any punishment at all, given that Aes Sedai are doing secretive stuff all the freaking time, and keeping it in their Ajar at best? The punishment does not make any sense either: you are mad your Aes Sedai does not tell you why she was visiting some remote place, better send her out again with no obligation to report at all. Yes, that was their plan, but how can the other Aes Sedai accept that nonsense?
@@Chairay That was my issue as well with the punishment. How did none of the Sitters call foul when Moiraine was out of the tower for so long already. I think this episode got jacked because of Barney leaving and they rushed to rewrite stuff to fix it. Overall I am going to give them this ONE and only pass for this episode because of the event that took place. After this though, if we see more of the silliness then I am going to have to start working towards a thumbs down.
It's just the bad writing from Amazon. I have a feeling the creators of this show, have never read any of the books. Certainly seems to be the case. Robert Jordan must be turning around in his grave.
I laughed my ass off when The amyrlin was telling them off. Here is Liandrin. One of The most composed powerfull women in the world and she is acting EXATLY as my 4 year old al of a sudden. The fact that MR greene ignores that siuan can channel perfektly fine at 11 years of age or so makes The rest unbalanced.
TO be honest, that one frustrated me a bit. We were *just* shown how important it is to them that their relationship remain secret (Moiraine and Suian). How dire their situation is if anyone finds out they're faking anything. But then we have Moiraine and Suian openly crying during her banishment... while Moiraine calls her pet-names???????!!! Moiraine saying things aloud like "She waits on only one woman, and it's not you", when Liandrin JUST finished flexing how good her eyes-and-ears are?! I just...don't get it...
@@robnoxiousplays2385 I haven't read the books just to be clear so my attachments and understanding may be wrong. I like to think moraine knew she was out of ear shot, and that nynaeve would have no clue so it didn't matter. And regarding pet names and crying, weren't most people turned around at that point? And if not, I imagine people knew they were friends previously and viewed it as a hard choice for them to make
@@robnoxiousplays2385 I think Moiraine was out of earshot when she made the changes to the oath and added the pet name stuff because she was pretty much shouting at the end in comparison. And I think most would consider the crying as parting of friends or longtime colleagues since the other red brought up blue favoritism during their trial for Logain.
While Mat's health noticeably improved he was still left weak for a while afterward. In the book he woke up after being healed a little different. His luck was more noticeable, but he was left ravenous, frail, and weak. He had trouble getting around so he started walking with the quarterstaff. The interaction with Hammar, Gawyn, and Galad sticks out in particular because at several points it's noted that he had been sick for a while, and was still weak from it. Since we won't be getting the scene with the group healing, or the training ground scene I mentioned it kind of makes sense that they'd just have Moraine heal him of darkness alone. After all, in the series she refused to speak to the others about what she was doing and who she had with her. Moraine healing Mat by herself shows this might not have been typical healing so much as it could be a flow to handle "Darkness".
I feel like a better way to seperate Mat would have been for them not to notice until the gate had closed. Like they turn around and see the closed gate and they're all like "Oops we left Mat"
I was thinking the exact same thing. His face would have made more sense, like he was looking at the closed gate, alone. And it would also had solved the problem of Moiraine doing nothing.
Or better yet, some dialogue explaining that the Healing was extensive and he's unable to travel until he regains his strength. Having him abandon his friends like that is so out of character, it's jarring.
You guys don't watch with subtitles of course, but the innkeeper were Mat and Rand rest is named Basel Gill (you see the name when he speaks).. big change again, but it's never said out loud so it can be changed anytime
Spoilers** I would imagine that Liandrin's knowing Mat's name, and him still being in Tar Valon near the dagger can lead to a storyline where he gets near the dagger and the corruption increases, and alongside this Liandrin will manipulate things so that he ends up going west on the missing ship investigation leading to Falme. At least those were possible things that could be building based off of the changes.
Mat was my favorite character in the books, so this was a bit of a bummer. Barney Harris did a great job acting, hope he’s alright. All his jokes landed, as always. My main complaint is lack of character building for Edmonds 5 so far
The actor probably got around to reading the books, saw what a absolute dumpster fire the series is and decided to jump ship. I consider him the smart one.
I kinda disagree in that I thought Barney Harris was perfect as the dagger-infected Matt but missed that fun, boyish prankster that made him so enjoyable in the books BEFORE his infection... Sure, you could say he was agreed up, but he kept that charm and boyish troublemaker personality right to the end of the series, so I don't think that mattered.
As a book fan I think this episode gave me the most whiplash in terms of changes. The oath rod being used to publicly swear an oath of fealty, Moraine's tears, Loial being asked to come but then having no role with opening the Waygate... The acting is wonderful and there is so much to appreciate overall, but for me this episode had a lot of changes that didn't enhance the story for me.
I think the inviting of Loial will deal with the reading of the Guideposts inside of the Ways, since that's why they keep bringing him through the Ways (besides him being able to feel them). I think it's just very clunky that they haven't given an answer of why he's there in the episode he joins them or anybody of the EF5 asking why he's there. (Like he's brand new to Perrin/Egwene).
@@saethone Absolutely fair point. It's certainly a minor change, but I guess I just felt it more with all of the bigger changes earlier in the episode and the clunkiness Adam mentioned. Even Siuan inviting Nynaeve and Egwene to call her by her first name rather than mother felt off to me 😓. Looking forward to the next episodes though, and perhaps a rewatch will make the changes resonate more.
@@saethone In the books nearly everyone outside of the Tower calls the Amyrlin Seat mother when they encounter her. Egwene and Nynaeve not yet being novices was the justification the show used, but for me it felt off.
Perhaps this comment has already been left by someone else but: REQUIRING CHANNELING TO USE THE WAY GATES IS HUGE. Daniel touches on it for this once instance, but trolloc transportation by way gate happens more than once. This will affect many plot points from the books as trolloc units led by non-channeling... individuals will now need a channeling member in or around them to access the ways. Also, must you also have a channeler to get you back out of the ways? That makes things even more complicated. Like I don't mind the change, it feels pretty natural to the magic system and world building, but the domino effect for future events is bigger than it first seems. Will have to see how this plays out. (This has been my general take from most of the changes in the show so far. I don't outright dislike them, but the series is so long and complicated that these small changes could have huge impacts for how events play out down the road. I take an "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality and it seems many non-broken things keep getting fixed. Whatever happens, I am certainly interested to see where they take things!)
It’s one of loials main story lines early on I don’t know why they didn’t give him 5 mins to open it and explain the dangers. They put pointless stuff in a rush important points
Is channeling required, though, or merely possible? If it's just an option that particularly powerful channelers can do it, they can leave the book methods intact for everyone else.
every "little" change they make has massive implications further into the story. I can almost guarantee they will either hand wave the problems away or just write in plot genies
It also changes the whole story of why and how the Ways were created in the first place. In the books the male Aes Sedai created the ways for the Ogier to have quick easy access to their home steddings without the need of an Aes Sedai.
BOOK SPOILERS: It is a big change, but I think they'll probably just have sisters of the Black Ajah help transport trolloc forces and then gtfo back to their scheming. It could actually be a pretty good change to visually show how many of the Aes Sedai out in the world are actually Black.
They'll prolly just cut that arc entirely, and if not maybe use it as plot device down the line (if it ever gets that far). Won't get my hopes up though. The way they just brushed off the entire dagger thread like it's no biggie just rubbed me the wrong way for some reason. Ofcourse time contraint played a role here and they had cut out some stuff I get that, but on the one hand they spent so much time on OC I feel like that time would have been better served using book content to frame the narrative of the show. And that's my number one problem I have with the show. It feels more like an OC story that just happens to be in a world created by RJ rather than book content adapted to the screen. Major/minor book plot lines are rushed or cut out entirely while OC stuff get majority airtime. That is fine if that's the route they want to take the show (loved ep.6 for what it is, my new fav episode thus far), but using book content only as filler and plot devices to move the story forward feels very unsatifying to me as a long time book reader. Coming back to Mat and the dagger and the whole story arc that comes with it ending with the epic finale of book 2 (season 2?) is one the more interesting plot lines in the first 2 books and we'll prolly won't get to see it.
Many of the plot points they skipped over are not really a problem, especially the ones around introducing other characters - in the books a lot of the characters are introduced early, but only become important much later, so that's something they can definitely work around. I almost wish they had skipped the dagger entirely in the show (in the context of how the story developed), because I feel like there are only 2 possible outcomes for that storyline right now: A) it becomes a MacGuffin - which it absolutely is, if you take all the character development it did for Mat in the books away (and they did that in the show) B) it becomes entirely pointless and was just there to give something special to Mat, and keep him in the race for a possible dragon If they had skipped the dagger, Mat and Rand would be equal in how insignificant they are in the show at this point, making Perrin and Nynaeve the strongest dragon candidates (might as well commit to how strongly they emphasize this mystery in the show), but leaves you wondering what role the other 3 will play, and if maybe one of them would turn out to be the dragon after all. I don't really like the show so far. I think it's not terrible, but also not very good. But - as someone who has read the books twice, and listened to the audiobooks on top of that - I never liked Eye of the World much either, and the only reason I stuck with the books the first time around was the world building, the promise of other characters that were only briefly introduced becoming more important, more character development etc. IMO, the show does not capture some of the core themes of the books, and that's good in some parts, bad in others. For example Good change - Thank good they are not making every single character we get POV chapters for in the books stubborn idiots, only capable of thinking in stereotypes ("men!" "women!") and utterly incapable of empathy or opening up to their closest friends/lovers/partners/parents/siblings... Too many conflicts in the books are about two or more idiots trying to get their ways, utterly disregarding everyone else who might have a say in this. Bad change - not much focus on the core theme of different personality types being forced into their roles, and how fighting against their supposed place in the pattern often puts them even more firmly into that role (Mat and Nyneave), or on the other end of the spectrum, how much they are overestimating their role (Egwane and Moirain) Playing into another core theme (Bad change): how other people following their own agendas are usually missing how important it is for the characters to find their own ways, because they think _they_ themselves should be able to just use them like chess pieces (and not realizing that they are mere pawns in the grand picture, trying to dictate where the queen should be positioned.) In the show, other than Liandrin, there wasn't really anyone that made you question if they are maybe meddling with other's peoples life's to much, or whether they might be too ruthless in following their ulterior motives. So far the show is missing the political power struggle aspect entirely (but granted, it's not that important in book 1 either.) TLDR; They can definitely work with the things they changed/skipped, but I personally don't really like what they have done so far. Still hoping it gets better with season 2, because I am not a big fan of the first book anyways - but also not sure, because they removed pretty much everything that made me start reading book 2.
@@Chairay The show is a mixed bag for me. Some parts I love to bits and other parts just make me a sad sack of potatoes with the direction they've gone. Things I like: cast, view of the different locations. Things I don't like: the hamfisted show OC stories (some of them pointless and unnecessary) they add nothing of importance to the plot as far as in context to the show itself and as far as the viewer knows, they're just there to score brownie points imho. All that airtime could've been used to do more world building and character development. I hate how they just brushed off/rushed certain story threads/events that pay off later down the line. That's not to say they might do it or might not do it all in the upcoming seasons. The result of this route they've taken is that the focus is on characters that are basically side characters in the grandscheme of things and the 5 EF have barely had any screentime or any character development at all. Now there's two hours left to do this big reveal in the finale and goin' by how this pilot season has gone so far I doubt they can do it justice. But I'm willing to see it out and see how it goes. As for episode 6 as in and of itself: I think it is my fav episode (episode 3 my previous fav) because acting was solid, the cast handled the scenes they were given well and were believable. But when taken in context to the books it's one flawed episode. Structurally, editing, narative to name a few. I can see people not liking this episode at all.
@@Chairay They did introduce padan fain in the first episode so i guess the dagger is there to stay, but it looks like they are going to skip horn of Valere storyline. I'm a bit more concerned about skipping characters. Three major charaters (elaida, elayne and min) are yet to be introduced. I'm guessing they are cutting elaida and giving her arc to liandrin but that will pose other challenges in the future
Only 8 episodes? So they cut almost done entire third out of book one and take parts from book 2 and they only have enough content for 8? I kind of miss the good old days in the 90s when a TV series would have 25 to 50 episodes per season...
One question .. it wasn't better if they had handled the "Mat situation" leaving him behind still sick, under the care of the yellow Ajah, and then heal him off-screen? So they would also have justified the change of appearance.. > >
This just seems stupid no offense lmao. Plenty of shows change actors it’s not a huge deal. Most ppl have enough common sense to where when someone calls the guy “Matt” they’re going to realize “oh, they must’ve changed actors”.
Been about a year since I read EotW for the firs time, but I remember Moiraine going in and healing mat "kind of" at the Inn with Master Gill. After that, he is functional, but still connected to the dagger. Not calling you out, but seems like the show is fairly spot on with this one. Moiraine comes and heals him a bit, and then later they do something to fully heal im...
Maybe. Or they've just moved things forward. Mat stays in Tar Valon. He meets Elayne and whichever of her brothers are in the show. He does more shit in Tar Valon for most of the season with Egwene and Nynaeve and the supergirls. He actually goes to Falme with them instead of Rand. Mat returns to TV with them and finds Thom. They head south together like in book 3 at the end of the season.
Don't they heal him three times? Second time is with multiple sisters in Fal Dara but even then the Connection isn't fully broken which is why Rand joins the Hunt for the Horn so he can help Mat.
Hopefully what you say turns out to be the truth, but that didn't just look like some ordinary healing. Just sayin'. There are too many red flags in the show not to be alarmed. So forgive me when I freak out a bit. For the love of gods I hope they don't just brush the dagger arc to the side.
I appreciate your linking Mat not going through the Ways and Barney leaving. I thought that was a strange choice for the plot, but this makes sense for why they did it. I hope Barney’s ok
Unfortunately, it was one of my least favorite episodes even though I love Moiraine and Siuan. I’m really conflicted about some of their choices regarding worldbuilding (the Ways, the Oath, the Eye) and well, the butterfly effect it could cause. Maybe it will be explained further along the way so other things make sense? I was taken out of the Oath scene - are we supposed to pretend other Aes Sedai in the room didn’t hear them? The whole point was to keep their mission and relationship low-key and it got really personal there. I get its emotional purpose for the viewers but it didn’t make sense in larger context. The ending at the Waygate was so awkward too. At this point the Dragon mystery starts to annoy me, it’s too heavy handed. I really try not to be nitpicking but these are not small things I can just ignore.
These three things were what I had a problem with as well, although I'm holding out hope the eye and ways can be rectified further. The extra oath really seems to conflict with the sanctity of the three oaths, and just felt off. End of the day, I'm enjoying it overall and I'm sure I'll get over it. When one is so invested in the original story it's nearly impossible for an adaptation to be objectively perfect.
What do you think requires explanation? The eye is basically irrelevant to the rest of the books so changing it seems like a good idea, the oath rod still binds oaths and the ways let you travel fast. It's not like they've flipped the table on this
@@feral_orc The are establishing here that they DO NOT trust the three oaths enough. So later on, there will not be a reason good enough to justify the Black Aja, because they have shown that they can just use the oath for such matters. And I think that is a HUGE deal.
There’s a whole story line about the oath rod in the books about the morality of making people swear more than the 3 oaths especially when they involve swearing to obey a specific person. It’s one of the ways egwene wins support
@@Murderdrones-Reagan but when the source material is so flagrantly changed for no purpose that only makes the story weaker there is a right to be upset
In regards to the Aes Sedai emoting more, I figured that within the tower they are somewhat less stoic (But no less secretive) since they're only seen by other sisters. One of the things I noticed and was annoyed by in the books was how everyone "shows no expression" it always felt like a cop out to having characters written in any way that would hint at their intentions and feelings. More emotion is a welcome change. On Mat, I think it's obvious that the knife isn't done with him and that section of the story will be addressed later. He might dissapear and need to be fetched, or he might interface with Thom in order to bring him back into the story. This was the first episode I thought was really good, I'm hopeful for the rest of the season and I can't wait to see how they change the story of EotW.
I agree. I like that the Aes Sedai show more emotion and personality. It works better for visual medium. We want to see the actors perform. Not just be stoic all the time. Plus a lot of RJ's characters are described as "stoic", it would be so boring after a while.
From reading the books, I was happy with the Aes Sedai being very careful and not showing much emotions within the tower itself. Politics in there are horrible. The White tower is the one place were Aes Sedai should be more guarded. Maybe when showing interactions within the same Ajah, then yeah.. But the Ajahs are at odds with each other more often than not. Tar Valon is a political nightmare.. An "emoting" Ais Sedai in the tower would be deemed to be a fool by all the other Aes Sedai. Indeed, one of the main plot for the Aes Sedai is when they have a schism.. It is clear that how Tower/Ajah politics have divided them. It is only then that you start to see more Aes Sedai to be more open with their emotions. So, yeah, stoic Aes Sedai make more sense at this point in the story than what the show has shown..
I love a lot of the scenes but I think as a book reader I am starting to get disappointed with how much things are diverging? I can't pin point it exactly but I think I will keep feeling the sense of disappointment until I see if the changes have a pay off that is worth it. Still love the show but I just can't shake it off completely at this time.
RE: The ter'angreal in Moiraine's room. My impression here is that this is TAR, not the physical world. Which would have been a great concept to introduce non-readers to at this point, but wasn't explicitly shown so it's hard to say.
As a book reader the divergence from the story is beginning to become a problem. There are some really good scenes that pull me in into the story only to be spat out shortly later by bits that don't fit in my head, at least.
Something that didn’t come to me until watching this video: Will Liandrin become a composite for Elaida here? She seemed to fill the role of the Red sister who antagonizes the characters when they meet the Amyrlin.
I don't think so, they're just making Liandrin a bigger character so that what happens next has a bigger impact. Elaida will probably be a later adition, probably around the same time as Caemlyn is first introduced (I'm betting season 3).
Some people I discuss the show with have thought this. It wouldn't surprise me but I really hope not, because Liandrin should be black ajah and I thought it was an important part of Elaida's character that she wasn't intentionally evil, she was just incredibly arrogant and misguided. I've also seen the suggestion that Liandrin might replace Alviarin, which I would be more okay with.
I'm sure they are gonna switch some roles around. Elaida obviously couldn't be cast yet because the Caemlyn Part was moved to Tar Valon in the Show and Elaida as Advisor to Morgase can't just be shown sitting around in Tar Valon. Also, Liandrin only gets introduced in the Second Book when the Party gets back to Shienar from the Eye of the World I think. I really don't have a Problem with that since some of the Characters were kind of superfluous in the books and died pretty quickly. Like for Example I think they are gonna somewhat simplify "Slayer" Biggest Changes I see coming are to Min, Elaine and Aviendha. I hope they don't remove Min since she is at the same time so important but also doesn't do that much personally.
"That's kind of a... rush..." Definitely an understatement. I completely agree. Well I understand the need for some changes to fit the medium, the entire show, especially Ep. 6, so far feels very rushed.
and they spent the majority of the last episode on mostly irrelevent side characters and still have the gall to say they need to cut book scenes for time
I feel that it would be better if the season has 12 episode, at least you can give more character development or more space for more characters... with 8 episode you have to rush a lot of things
They are rushing through some things they could be taking more time with and taking more time with stuff that they could move through more quickly. It's a pacing issue, and they seem to be inbetween right now. Hopefully its something they get a better handle on going forward.
I'm concerned with how little screen time the Emond's Field Five are getting. I get that Rosamund Pike is the best actress, but we need to be invested in the five that provide most of the view points of the rest of the series. (Minor Book-Spoilers follow) Another thing that really bothered me is that Moraine Travelled to meet Siuan Sanche. And Travelling is such a big plot point in the later books when it's rediscovered. And Siuan being in love with Moraine seemed off to me. Just because it's such a deal later in the books when she actually falls in love with Gareth. That she never thought she would ever be able to feel something like that.
I think it was tel’Aran’riod not travelling and they were heart sisters in the book. But it wasn’t delved into as the book is pretty PG when it comes to relationships
@@ShanShan-kw9hi ^ this. Considering Daniel ENTIRELY missed the implication that they were in the dream, it's not surprising others would. BUT that ALSO comes with implications. "Fully entering" the dream is not a good thing. I disagree with John about the "love" between the two being off, as you say the books rely on some fairly heavy subtext rather than saying it out right... BUT I do have the feeling we're going to lose other romances to preserve this relationship. That is a disservice to the characters, but it's also "queerbaiting" and bi-erasure. Just because two women are lovers and DO love each other, doesn't mean they can't fall in love with another. They've been separated for most of 20 years. It reminds me of "Buffy" writers essentially endorsing the idea that sexuality is a choice by "turning a character gay" rather than allowing the more complex reality to stand and trusting audiences to appreciate that complexity.
I have a question about the episode: why was Moiraine foward during Logain's trial? Like, they even said that Liandrin was in charge after the other green one died. Why was Moiraine in focus then? Was it just for the show because she's one of the main characters or there are other reasons that I don't know for not reading the books?
Also couldn’t figure that out, but I think she was more on trial for leaving for so long and not updating anyone on her doings? Though that feels like a stretch.
Your guess is as good as anyones. In the books, Logain's capture takes place offscreen. None of the main characters are anywhere near them, with the only exception being Rand, who spots him at a distance in an incredibly important city where he meets some pretty plot critical characters which didn't happen. So... yeah. Moraine had nothing to do whatsoever with Logain.
This isn’t a big spoiler, just regular dynamics of Aes Sedai in the tower but still don’t look if you wish not to know . . . . . . Aes Sedai can feel their relative power compared to each other and they tend to rank themselves based on power level and the power levels in that scene are Moiraine > Liandrin > Alanna. They stood that way because the only reason Liandrin was in charge instead of Moiraine is that Moiraine was there by accident because she needed healing. In any other situation Moiraine would have been in charge.
Spoilers for up to Early Book 12 . . . . The oath rod thing made me think of Elaida wanting to add a 4th oath, to serve the Amyrlin. So it's really weird that they're having Siuan do it here, when it's something that's seen as fundamentally against the Aes Sedai ways.
This healing of Mat was the Caemlyn healing. Remember that everything happening in Tar Valon was supposed to be in Caemlyn. Moiraine gives him a partial healing there, but then after EoTW he gets the Amyrlin full healing treatment.
I missed your comment on when Siuan literally said "The Dark one is imprisoned in the Eye of the world" - this is so big deviation from the book. I mean, lots of knowledge was lost since the breaking of the world, but everyone in the third age knows where The Dark One and Forsaken are imprisoned. And it's not Eye of the World. It's a big change IMHO.
Given Moiraine's look in the final scene, I interpreted it as secretly planned between her and Mat that he would not be coming along. I'm thinking that in the next episode, Moiraine might be explaining why she's sure it's not him.
My theory is that she somehow felt that he can't channel when she healed him. The Aes Sedai could feel how strong Logain was when he was shielded, so it wouldn't be too far fetched.
I like that. It would be good to have a story element next episode addressing Mat's absence. And not with a throwaway line, please. LOL, one of Arnold's quips comes to mind: "He had to split."
There was something. Could come more from real world stuff than scenario...? Who knows. Pike is usually more professional than that. Was is ..contempt? Anyway, Barney will be missed, and frankly, no one will be able to pull off filling his big boots. I pity Donal.
@@niklaskoivunen1138 They can feel how strong logain is through the shield . There is no way for a woman to know that a man can channel or even if he is channeling at this point in the books.
@@Scuderia47 it's not they have been following the books very closely up until now. Besides, the dagger is kind of a special case, so it wouldn't be too implausible. Or maybe Moirane could taste his inability when she got the corruption thingy in her mouth lol.
Wait! Why is everyone assuming Moiraine "healed" him here. In the books (EOTW Chapter 41 and 42), she grabs her angreal and "cleanses" him temporarily, but says the full healing will need to come later. This very much feels exactly like that. She even says in the show that they need to be careful with him going forward, so I don't think he's fully broken the connection.
@Anne Day I can see that. But then I don't know what the point of her explaining that if he touches it again he'll die is. I agree it's different, but very much feels that it isn't over yet - that he'll need more healing later.
Entering the ways is a massive change when you look into certain events that are going to happen, mainly in book 4. And I think if matt didn't get healed in this episode, then they could have left him in Tar Valon to get healed up until the point of season 2 where he could attempt to leave to meet a familiar face.
Good to see that I'm not the only one to do a double-take when Siuan's dad just gives her the fishing boat to head on up that river to Tar Valon. I mean, it's only halfway across the map. Young kid on her own, no training or weapons, I'm sure she'll be fine. What could possibly go wrong? Related note: Is it just me or does Hollywood in general have a consistent problem showing young protagonists (or really, any character at all) being trained by older, more experienced characters? It isn't just Wheel of Time, I see it in a lot of tv shows and movies. I'm not asking for Rocky-esque training montages, but c'mon, give us something to help build our connections to the characters....
A kid can travel halfway across the map no problem and people have been interbreeding for millennia, yet there's still somehow a plethora of different races because we need to meet fake diversity quotas.
Im still 50/50 with the series direction. This is why the show should have been directed by someone familiar with Robert Jordan’s writing. And would someone please fix Loials ridiculous hair cut?! He’s one of the most important characters from the books and he looks like he’s got a cheesy perm.
@@hunterkat Is he? Why? Because he said so on Twitter and buttered the fanbase up a few times? Absolutely no fan would adapt these books in this manner. No genuine fan would go out of their way to needlessly deviate from the books they claim to love at every turn. Him acting like a superfan online is all just marketing to soften up fans and make us see him as "one of us" so that we're less critical... and the sad thing is that, for many people, it worked.
@@lbds9555 At some point you seem to have convinced yourself that projecting the most dissatisfaction and outrage meant you were a True and Loyal Fan. The attitude is super old at this point, we get it. Could you stop it with the I'm More Fan Than Thou attitude and, I don't know, say something else that at least attempts to speak to the specifics in the video?
My only issue, and this may come across wrong, is the consistent addition of unnecessary content at the expense of book content. Whether it was the Stepin episode and his whole relationship with his Sister and the fallout of the bond or Moraine and Siuan sex scene. Sure, all of the above are, in some way, implied in the books but wasn’t that enough? How does it help the story at the cost of, say, Elias? Maybe to non-book fans this all makes sense but for me it’s increasingly making me concerned with how much content they’ll cut just to include throw away plot points. Everything about this show is great for me except the storyline so far but as you say, I’ll wait till the end to truly make up my mind.
I can see why we got no Elyas in season 1 because new watchers already have many characters they need to know. But the showrunner promised two characters that are loved by the fans and were omissed from book 1 in season 2 - so there is a good chance that Elyas is one of them.
Honestly i agree, while it sets up some explanation for some things like the warder bond that will be relevant later in the series, it sacrifices character introducations and important plot points, as well as much needed time with the main characters. If i hadnt read the books i doubt i would feel much of anything for rand or perrin, or egwene. So far i have enjoyed the show, but im not sure if thats just because ive been looking at it from a book reader's perspective.
The whole pillow friends/lovers thing is weird in the books, but both Moiraine and Suian wind up with men in the end and talk about how they both dreamed of finding husbands as younguns. RJ seemed to think that girls who are straight just swing both ways when they're young, IDK if that's normal or not. So, they're swinging another way here, no surprise I guess.
I don't think novices have access to boys around, so under the immence stress of work and studdies things might just happen. That's how I took it. Then they figure out if they like it or not and move on
I wasn't fond of the way gate with the reveal a while back and I dislike it moreso now since it seems the power is required to use them. Like their existence in that manner is pretty useless to the ogier who grow them and the general traveller, literally only useful to aes sedai. Also didn't like the travelling until I realised it was a ter angreal by looking at the bonus content
I also hate that the Way Gate is such a huge structure in the middle of a field. It takes so much away from Ogier lore that it’s a hidden gate in a forest and few people know about them. It’s just bad writing. God!
They might also accept a key if you have one,with no channeling required. Book!Moirain did force open a Waygate in an emergency back in book 1, so all options are still possible.
I dislike Way gate requiring channeling as well but yeah It was pretty clear to me that thing Moiraine used to meet with Siuan was a Ter'angreal so I was alright with it.
@@gokbay3057 the ter'angreal went right over my head. my reaction was "da f#$k?" Also was the place where they met the amylin place?? I thought it was a hut that looked like Siuan's childhood home. there was really no need to have travel in that circumstance when they could have just had a bath meeting.
@@damp2269 I'm thinking it was Tel'aran'rhiod (I probably did not put the apostrophes in the correct places but whatever) Because otherwise it is either a random House or she had it rebuilt and has the same Ter'angreal. So Siuan probably has some other form of entering the World of Dreams or possibly it was her regular dream and the thing allows Moiraine to enter it.
So much hype for this episode and that's it? At first I understand why the wanted to introduce the white tower early but come on, the main characters are the Aes Sedai and not the EF5 at this point.
I really would like liked some backhanded barb in that whole trial/backing up the reds thing. "Yes mother, if we hadn't gentled Loghain he would have killed us all, the Reds were not able to control him" or something of the like.
An episode or great moments and difficult choices. I’m left 🤔
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I think that he has been healed for now but with the warning of don’t touch the dagger again then he might do something with padan fain next episode that he then might need a group heal to permanently separate him from it.
Mat is going to be a problem?
im pretty sure Siuan's room was actually her house that got burned, so that was the dream world.
How are you with the amount of dialog? I feel like they are relying on facial expressions and music instead of just having people discuss issues or act as exposition.
You forgot to mention the totally unnecessary nudity in the bath scene: servants being half naked? They only dared to show silhouettes, which made that nudity even more unnecessary. 🙄
You missed Egwene's reaction to "Strongest channeler in a thousand years" being so full of pride only to get deflated when the ", Nynaeve" came. 10/10
yeah i noticed that. very well acted all around.
that scene was weird. Her reaction was unwarranted, as she didnt channel much when Moraine could see her. There is a book reason that could cover that hole, but it would make a bigger hole if they introduced it (but they should introduce it).
@@cmike123 true
It was badly set up. Egwene has done nothing of note that would lead her to believe that Sanche could have been talking about herself
@@davidkymdell452 Moiraine and Lan talked together after meeting Logain and Moiraine said that she couldn't tell if Logain was stronger than Egwene. Which means that Moiraine knew that Egwene has intense potential. My money is that there was a deleted scene with their conversation on it before Shadar Logoth.
I laughed out loud at Mat going something like "Bless him, he tried" when Lan just pins Rand down. That was the best part of the episode for me 😂
That got a belly laugh from me. My boy tried.
@@DanielGreeneReviews agreed! Very in character
That is such a Mat line 😂
@@thebookpotato310 I always liked how Matt feared and respected Lan for the stone cold killer he was
Too right, this was fantastic for me. Definitely going to miss Barney playing this character.
Very concerned how little Rand is involved in the main story so far. His development in the first book was one of identity crisis after a certain conversation with his father, and his conflict in wanting to remain a small town family man in light of him being forced to grow into who he becomes. Leaving out key moments of characterization for him in order to 'preserve the mystery' will only lead to an unsatisfactory conclusion. They haven't even really touched on his sword yet, which symbolizes his connection with Tam. Most of my non reader friends are not impressed with him on screen and hope he's not the Dragon... I feel they are building up a mystery for the sake of mystery, and no one will care about the reveal at all because there are no stakes or character build up in the show.
The actual tv series may have a different story order and pacing from the books. I do not think most people realize how large the books are and how much detail is contained.
Agree
Yep. In the book we kinda know who will be the dragon reborn due to POV, but it gets progressively more certain as we get clues (born outside of the two rivers, hair color unique and of a particular people, etc). The mystery for us is not "who" is the Dragon, but "what" it will truly mean for this country lout sheephearder whose life is no longer the same, and whose parents may not be biological. Who the Dragon is is only a mystery for the characters, not for us.
In the show however, they're focusing so much on the mystery that they've had to deviate from the base material dramatically (I've always thought that Egwene and Nynaeve should be considered Ta'veren, but it's silly to think they could be the Dragon), and all of the main characters are suffering because of it. But Rand will suck most of all, because he is just a tall, hard working, friendly archer. No conflict to him - and the season is almost over.
@@rafaelb.m.4756 I agree. The whole premisse for RJ to write the books is not to write yet another hero trope tale - it is rather what someone would do if they were branded a hero and didn't have any say about it. What conflicts would arise? What would it do to you as a character? Book one already establishes the base for this, something which we miss in the first season up until now.
Btw, be careful with how you word things, cause spoilers.
They only had 8 episodes to try to flesh everyone out and compared to the first book, they have succeeded in fleshing out the other 4, Moraine and the white tower better than in the first book.
They should have given some key moments for Rand but as some of my non reader family mentions every episode... who is Rand and why is he so Bland. Atleast going into the heron marked blade meaning and maybe even Tams fever talks. That alone would have helped Rand be just as fleshed out.
It is a big deal that you now need the one power to open the waygate. That means that Ogier can't open a waygate and the ways was made for them! Why does they need Loial there?
No one knows what the hell is going on..
It is a major change, especially considering what happens in book 2 (PF) & 4 (Trollocs attack), not to mention the attack in Episode 1.
They would need Loial to lead them through the ways but I agree the opening of the gate should have stayed truer to the book, they created problems for themselves later. Also the quick look into the ways was not even close to how it was described in the book.
@@greanne12 But why could Loial know how to navigate the Ways? He can't open the gate... So, his time inside the Ways is very, very limited (Unless there is a specific Ajah not mentioned in the books whose only task is to open the Gateways for Ogliers?).
Even if they come up with something like the Ogiers have gathered this knowledge over the years... The question is, once again, how? they Can't open the Gates..
PS: The Gateways were created by men who could channerl, makes no sense for Women weaves to work on them either. :(
@@mvilla9754 Loial has never been into the Ways even in the books . They need him to read the signs in Ogier language inside the Ways .
Show Fan Theory: The impression I get is that the Dark One is behind those dreams and he's making a play to take out the dragon nice and early by feigning weakness.
Show only fan here.
Or possibly someone else is pretending to be the dark one and creating misleading dreams. Probably one of the forsaken ? Ishamael(Father of lies)?
@@palashgupta6673 Your theory doesn't sounds like you're show only :P
That’s an interesting theory, I’ll say nothing more.
@@hellgast0 They explicitly brought the forsaken up last episode with the little statues and have mentioned Ishamael twice specifically. It's a very astute show only observation to make. Otherwise why did the show mention it at all?
@@robbybevard8034 if they infer from that one short scene that one of the Forsaken can influence someone's dreams, I really want to hear their other theories then xD
I do consider the Way gate change a big deal. Multiple parties use the ways in several books. Making it require channeling changes a lot. It's actually a pretty big deal imo.
Also it doesn't make sense. They clearly are keeping the ways history since Machin Shin is there, and the Ogier Guidings...so how would the Ogier have used the ways if it required channeling to get in.
Yes. This.
Hmm, it really does. Because if it requires channeling, how did the Trollocs get to Emond's Field in such great numbers? The Borderlanders wouldn't have let such a great force through. The Ways are specifically how the Darkspawn got around the Borderlanders and into the southern lands.
Plus, it near completely invalidates Ogier guides in the Ways. If you need someone that can channel to open them, what purpose would Ogier have for being the guides?
@@Animalace3 To be fair, it was shown in the episode that they needed Loial to read the signs. It definitely makes sense that they would still need an Ogier guide to actually traverse the ways.
@@Animalace3 Exactly, how did the Ogier even learn about the ways if none of them can channel?
The best reaction to this episode was from a friend who hasn't read the books. She finished the episode and messaged me to say "I'm just saying if Mat had one of these bad boys at lot of problems could have been avoided" and she sent a picture of those backpack leashes that some people put on toddlers. I fully cackled. I will never forget the image of Rand pulling an angry little Mat with a backpack leash across the country on an adventure. It's stuck in my brain now
You just put that image in my brain and it's going to live here rent free for the rest of days, bless you, I love it!
Omg that's so funny
Show fan here and that is hilarious.
I freaking love it.
That needs to be a WoT meme!
To fix the Mat situation, I would have added one conversation between Moraine and Lan:
Moraine: "He is too sick to travel, I left him with ______ (my most trusted yellow friend), if anyone can save him it is her"
Lan: "What if he is the dragon?"
Moraine: "The odds are too great he is not for us to miss this chance. And if he is, we may all be doomed already"
easy, clean, fits the books better anyway
The issue here is that you're approaching the problem as someone who's read the books and has a brain. You need to look at it from the perspective of the people making the show, who haven't read the books and are brain dead.
@@justinalbin7272 hUrTFUlLL!
@@justinalbin7272 oaf, that hurt
@@justinalbin7272 You're kinder on them than I am...
Considering how it all went down he was there with them on the hill. You don’t have time to magically reshoot huge amounts of scenes and he dipped the fuck out mid shooting. They did the best they could with what they had.
Note that Moriaine actually says that she will return when Siaun Saunche calls her back, not the Amyrlin.
yea and no aes sedai even mention that ridiculous change when she swears on the oath rod. These aes sedai are crazy dumb
ah didn't notice that
@@im1085 I think the idea is the people in the room couldn't hear that part. Moiraine speaks noticeably louder at the end of the oath.
@@KaitlinLuksa lol and the other aes sedai are ok with a blue swearing a secret oath they cant hear. Terrible writing when it comes to aes sedai
Specifically she pledges "allegiance" to Siaun rather than the Amyrlin Seat. Which is a change to Siaun's words that seemed to get missed. I would have thought at least one other person in that room would have picked that up.
"If you claim to be a wisdom, it's time you use some of it." DANG, that was the sickest burn I have heard in a long time. Gives me gandalf vibes.
Definitely came across like a "Fool of a Took" moment
My husband and I literally clapped at that!
@@nathanbaca5131 I was going to say exactlt that. Reminded me of, "Next time if you throw something down, make sure to throw yourself with it to rid us of your stupidity." It was something along those lines, I'm paraphrasing.
I was for that as well! 🥰🥰🥰
The room where she met Siuan wasn't her room, it appeared to be a recreation of a shack from her fishing village, which makes me think it was tel'aran'rhiod, because there was another of the doorway paintings in Siuan's room later, but not in the room they met in. Seems like those paintings were dream ter'angreal.
That was my impression as well.
Same
That was also my impression that it was something similar to the world of dreams, but I hate that they don't explain it at all. It makes it very confusing for non book readers, and even fans like myself were a bit confused. Considering how much deep and complex world building and concepts are in the story, every time it's made more confusing makes me more concerned that non book fans are going to be Confused and give up.
Now I can't wait to read the series so I know what that means!!
@@shainaelise2694 books are waaaaaaaay better.
Best part is Egwene preening when Siuan says 'the most powerful channeler in 1000 years', and then crumpling in shock when Siuan says Nynaeve al'Meara
Lmao i loved seeing her like that. Always hated egwene. In the books, and now in the show!!
I was under the impression that Moraine and Siuan met in Tel’aran’rhiod. The ter’angreals seemed to be a way to step into the world of dreams. I didn’t think Siuan’s bedroom actually looked like that in the waking world. Also, they both end up wearing different clothing, which would reflect Tel’aran’rhiod more so than the limit threads all these characters seem to have in their wardrobe.
And in the FLESH!
Did we see her bedroom in another scene? I don't think the room she met Egwene and Nyneave in was her bedroom.
And why would they spend the night in the dream world? That's pretty weird.
I really hope it is neither traveling nor the dream world as those are both things which are supposed to be rediscovered from the age of legends later in the series
You can hear wolves in the background - absolutely world of dreams
That was my first thought too, but she didn't go to sleep so I was like ok, what are we doing here? Is it real or tel'aran'rhiod? Eitherway, I think it's a very interesting path to take their relationship. I felt like it was little bit of a fanfic vibe to it, because I didn't remember it from the books, but Daniel said it was there so clearly I missed it. I always thought th to just be allies, but I like the take that they're lovers even more..
My biggest (avoidable) issue with the episode is the tears in the oath rod scene, and Moraine using all the fond nicknames like, “clever as a pike”. After all that work and acting they did to pull off this con, and to clearly break character in this pivotal scene… you don’t think ever Aes Sedai in that room would be like, “oh, I see what’s going on here”?
How I interpreted this scene: everyone knows that they were close when they both came to the tower, or even that they were pillow friends. Those appeals were Moiraine trying to move the Amyrlin to reduce her sentence, by appealing to their previous relationship, which, as far as everyone else knows, no longer exists. So, with this, they can show that the Amyrlin is very firm in her sentencing, not going easy because she was previously a Blue, and that Moiraine really doesn't want to leave, so the head of her Ajah can be convinced she really doesn't want this,
I felt the same way but then I remembered that Alanna hinted that many Aes Sedai knew they had a thing together as Novices, it is possible that they read it as a barb shot from a scorned once lover. It is petty but it's not like the Aes Sedai are not willing to be petty in certain situations.
My only explanation is that Moraine said that too low for anyone else to hear. But yeah, Siuan's tears should have been noticeable for everyone in the room and I also did not like that at all. I mean, book Siuan can handle that situation without crying for sure and the show had already made a really strong point of how close they are. So yeah, I agree.
There is no explanation. The writers think they know better than RJ so they've completely changed the series.
This isn't even the Wheel of Time anymore.
It's plagiarism.
It was soooo much. I hated it
Requiring channeling to open the waygate isn't really a small issue. It makes zero sense regarding their history, and messes up the Two Rivers stuff that happens later
YES exactly!!!
As a non-book reader and baby fan, I look forward to your episode breakdowns every week. I really appreciate your efforts to integrate us non-book / new fans into the strong WoT fanbase by explaining a lot of the lore and background thoroughly without any spoilers. It makes new fans like me feel included and not super overwhelmed at a) not being a fan earlier and being intrusive into the strong fanbase, and 2) the rich lore of WoT. Keep your WOT coming Daniel, thank-you so much.
For me my favorite parts of this episode were 1) seeing more of Moiraine's multidimensional personality, particularly her relationship with Siuan. She felt more manipulative yet raw in this episode, and I love that combination in a character, especially women, and 2) the use of portals, particularly The Way gate. The "lightning" sounds coming out from that was really eerie, I loved it.
I'm kinda afraid that their focus on trying to obscure who the dragon is might ruin some things as it is going on. Plus, I really don't feel the pacing in this one. We're missing so much by Mat already having been healed or Rand not meeting Morgase, imo.
We do not know what structure the series and episodes are going to take. Many here do not seem to realize that most people who are watching the series have not read the books.
@@bighands69 They're going to make Egwene the Dragon.
@@bighands69 sure and I tend to defend many issues the series has due to this. I even like some changes that were made, some were really great.
But still...call me old-fashioned, but I think the fans of the books should remain as the main target audience if you discuss changes being made and some changes right now seem to go in a dangerous direction. I'm not saying that anything is ruined, just that, while episodes 2-5 made me less cautious, this one brings me back to the point were episode 1 left me...dreading that this might end up less than optimal.
I would say we aren't missing much not seeing Morgase or Elayne just yet. They aren't really essential to the first book and are just in it for a short time. Holding off till Season 2 for Elayne makes so much sense as that's when she becomes part of the story anyway.
Unlike lotr or harry potter I'm just not feeling this series- at heart it's just not what the books were, it's more extreme and it just lacks a certain wholesome magic yk?
Álvaro Morte steals every scene he is in. Holy smokes that guy is good. I'm so happy we got to see more from Logain than in the books.
. . .why?
Are you clinging to some small semblance of the books because the rest is woke garbage that destroyed canon?
If so, I understand. Otherwise, this is woke garbage.
@@JaysSavvy Specifically. What is "woke" about it?
@@lmattd The possibility of a woman dragon. It was never possible.
Race swapping characters.
A racially diverse two rivers.
Changing back stories.
Imposing homosexuality.
Over sexualization of characters.
Males looking weak and incapable while women appear strong and capable.
Would you also like specific examples for each? All instances listed have multiple examples to chose from. Specifically.
Robert Jordan wrote a diverse world. Leftist writers puked woke nonsense all over it to make it even more diverse.
I would love specific examples. Because you are not coming across as a person that knows what you are talking about.
There was homosexuality in the books. There are strong male characters in the show. The books were racially diverse.
@@lmattd Gladly. It seems to me as if YOU have no idea what YOU'RE talking about, so I'll educate you.
1. There was never a possibility of a woman Dragon. It is impossible as per the canon. The one power is linked to your soul.
See Halima/Aran'gar for proof. When resurrected by the dark one into a females body, Halima still channeled Saidin.
2. Perrin is described by Faile as having "alabaster skin." Nynaeve is described by Elayne as having "Dark Blue Eyes." Suian and Lan, too. Blue eyed characters race swapped.
3. The reclusive Two Rivers, virtually unchanged for 1000 years, is somehow racially diverse? Ha ha. No. Unless they're segregated. Is the Two Rivers a segregated village?
4. Nynaeve was raised by her father, a hunter and trapper. Hence her tracking skills. Mats dad is a horse trader and expert with a quarterstaff. Not a drunken womanizer.
5. Yes, there was homosexuality. But we've seen more of it in 6 episodes than we read about in all the books, combined. Don't pretend like Moraine and Suian having secret smash sessions is even remotely canon.
6. Egwene was dead weight for the whole first book. Useless. It's part of her marvelous character arc. From useless but with potential, to a novice, to a damane, to a wise one, to the greatest Amyrlin to have ever existed, inventing a weave to heal the pattern of balefire and rediscovering talents.
Anything else you need educated on...? Did you have anything specific you wanted to discuss or disagree with?
As I said, RJ wrote a diverse world already. It didn't need to be more diverse. It's wholly unnecessary and does NOTHING to forward the plot of the story.
Why are you people like this? Did you even read the books? Any of them?
Re: The Aes Sedai calmness
The point about acting makes a lot of sense. I would add to that with they also need to convey that the thngs happening are extraordinary to the audience, and those minor reactions are indicative of that. I feel like they can strike a balance. To the public, Aes Sedai can present as stoic and unshakeable. But in their private meetings, they can be more...human.
I remember a scene in the books where they literally “expel their stomachs” during a council meeting haha
With every episode i am less and less confident about that show
I think we've seen a lot of stoicism so far, especially from Moirane. Go back to episode 1 on winter night. She's demolishing trollocs and has a very neutral expression throughout. I think 1) Aes sedia do show more in private than public 2) they are showing just how unconventional and severe the actions of Siuan are by having small gasps and facial expressions. It's not that Aes sedai don't have emotions. In some ways, I like to think they have stronger emotions than most non channelers, but they only show the tip of the iceberg as it were outwardly.
the gasps and facial expressions are ok on private meetings but Siuan shedding tears for Moiraine in public was waaaaay to much. If her power is in question that just emboldened everyone that was there.
I mean... you can't have every woman in that scene act like a vulcan. The audience that hadn't read the books would think they were all insane and they'd piece out in a second. Again - what works in the written word doesn't necessarily work in a visual medium. Adjustments have to be made.
Are Aes Sedai and Warders calm, emotionless and stoic? When it comes to the REST of the characters in the show? Yeah. Relatively speaking they are. What they can't be on TV are emotionless robots.
I think the main complaint of the show of people who don't get this is that the show was made. At all. The show they wanted would have been impossible to make. No adaptation of a fantasy novel, or novel in general, was unaltered when it made the transition to a screen big or small. Why should The Wheel of Time be any different?
It is really sad that Barney Harris had to leave, I honestly was the most invested in Mat. I really wanted to see this character grow.
At the same time, I thought it was kind of nice to have this typical "party comes together to go on a journey" moment but then one of the character just being like "nah, I'm not really vibing with this"
Barney was probably ahead of the curve and jumped shipped before this train wreck comes to rest.
Yeah tbh I didn’t know this was due to the script and to me if just felt like a dealt out there but cool twist. I think knowing too much about the outside goings on and the books too is colouring a lot of these reviews which can sometimes help but also means the story itself just as a story isn’t getting to be enjoyed the same way it does for those of us who haven’t read it and are just taking the series as it comes. I get why though as that’s how I felt watching Dune. I was honestly pretty miserable at times as I watched them strip things out of the book that just really made the movie falter. But I do think from what I have seen the changes in the wheel of time series have been done very well
Barney Harris was fine but he wasn't good looking enough. Could you imagine Tylin choosing him as her 'pretty'?
They ruined Matt's character along with every other character.
@@fightingirish5755 :'D
I just wish the Emondsfield 5 had more to do, Rand has litteraly been just sitting in a room for two hours now. They feel sidelined and this is supposed to be their story. Got two more hours to go but, idk. It feels like the show is missing a lot of the charm that was in the books. A lot of the stuff we have gotten is cool but not really necessary this early in the shows run. The main focus I feel should be on the Emondsfielders and it hasn't felt that way for a few episodes now.
Agreed!
If they wanted the Moraine show, they should have done New Spring. Then they could make up crap to their heart's content to get from New Spring to EotW, and then start WoT in season 2.
Not like this won't be cancelled before the end anyway.
@@nathanmorgan3647 or they could have just kept some of the mystery that is so intriguing when reading about Moiraine in the books and saved more of her development for down the road like it is in the books. I get wanting the big name actors to have more to do but part of the appeal about older characters like Moiraine and Lan and Suian is they have layers to them. They slowly get revealed over 3 or 4 books and that's something that is missing as well in my opinion. The cast is carrying the show for me right now.
@@Sam-jx8tv Agree 1000%
Missing the trip to Caemlyn very much at this point... so much of the bond between Matt and Rand is just not present because of it.
Huge problem for me in this episode (minor spoilers for later books):
Suan’s actions in this episode really feel like later book Elaida. The 4th oath that moraine gives is so similar to elaida’s fourth oath proposition, which is seen as horrifying and close to compulsion. She seems extremely out of character for me in the show
Totally agree, biggest issue I've had so far in the show because of how much it goes against the underlying value structure of Siuan, Egwene etc.. I can't believe how wrong they got that, even if you haven't read the books, you could infer the slippery moral slope of using the oath rod all willy nilly
The show has nothing to do with the books. The entire core of what the characters are has been violated. The core lore has been destroyed. This show most definitely should NOT be called the Wheel of time. It's one thing to drop small elements of the story to adapt a story to a different medium. This is NOT adaptation, this is rewriting. And sadly, the writers are infinitely less talented than Robert Jordan. But even if they had been talented, this level of rewriting should not use the title of the original IP. As far as I'm concerned it's stealing someone else's work. So not only the writers and showrunner talentless, they have a serious lack of moral fibre.
(Book spoilers)
They gave logain rands motivations, undercutting Logains story in an attempt to introduce madness early on
@@Taveren It has nothing to do with the books except some basic concepts of the One Power... The characters have nothing to do with who they really are. Hollywood writers seem to think that "subverting" is being creative. This is wrong. It only works in some scenarios where it is appropriate. You're making a parody, subverting is fine. You want to show how reality works as opposed to fiction... subvert expectations by having characters behave in accordance to their established personalities even if it subverts the reader/viewer's expectations.... (like in Ned Stark's execution, and the Red Wedding). Those are creative subversions.
The difference is that when you are adapting a story to screen, you no longer need to be creative storytellingwise. The story is already told, all you have to do is retell it... the only creativity required or necessary comes into presenting some information that was narrated. Dialogues should not be changed... storylines should not be changed. Making your own (inferior) story and slapping someone else's IP name on it doesn't make you a creator. It either makes you lazy (not bothering to read the books you're supposed to adapt), or a thief (taking advantage of someone else's populartiy/work to push your own "work" ). Sadly, this is the path that screenwriters choose to take.
The only adaptations of novels that have been successful, is when the story has been faithfully reproduced (and yes, with some changes pertinent to the medium), like the Lord of the Rings, and the first couple of seasons of Game of Thrones (particularly the first season). The further the "creatives" stray away from the source material, the worse the work becomes (The Hobbit, later seasons of Game of Thrones). There is a message there.... those original works became popular for a reason. If you want to retell the story to a new medium then just do that "retell" the story in a new medium. Making up your not story is NOT what fans of the original work want to see. It will result in the vast majority of the cases in an inferior product.
Yeah I was like oh shit she brought out the oath rod.
What got me about that Oath was that Moraine swore to Suian, not to the Amyrlin Seat. Therefore, if the Amyrlin is changed while Moraine is gone from the Tower, no demand from the Amyrlin can force her to obey that Oath. Only Suian can demand she return. Weird change, but I'm sure the show has some reason for it, or at least I hope they do.
Mandarb, Aldieb, Bela, & all the other horses (with saddles & bridles left on) are just set loose while most of the gang go jaunting off through a mysterious gateway, leaving Mat behind.
So, does he finally become the horse trader he bragged about being in a previous episode? ;-)
I'm sure that was quite intentional on Moiraine's part. She knows that Suian is at risk of being deposed, and Liandrin might well succeed her.
I was going to say this - how did no one cry foul, and also they are supposed to hate each other and it was obvious to anyone that the AS was losing her composure at having to exile Moiraine. Just.... hmmmm a terrible scene (not badly acted)
@@dwsb No book reader here. I don't know how much every order (?) of the Aes Sedai know about the internal politics of the other orders but the head of the blues wanted Moiraine in the tower. Breaking the plans of the blues showed that she didn't favor that particular order. Giving Moriane an excuse to travel again is the intended consecuence but a bonus is a bonus.
The Oath rod addition is one of the most abysmal, clumsy, stupid, and downright evil additions they made. The implications are insanely vast. As any oath you swear is IMPOSSIBLE to break, bound by the power, swearing an oath of fealty makes you a slave. Moira one now cannot refuse to obey Siuan in ANYTHING. If she says “stop breathing”, Moiraine will. This was NOT needed, and opens up a freaking Walmart full of can of worms. The other Aes Sedai should have deposed her instantly for even suggesting to make another Aes Sedai swear on the Oath rod. It is evil. I can understand that most non-book fans don’t make this connection immediately, but it is the equivalent of having Gandalf murdering the Rohan king because he is possessed. It is vastly out of character, and an evil thing he would never do.
@@johns70 Suian didn't ask for an oath of fealty, though. She ordered Moiraine to swear that she would respect the terms of her exile until the Amyrlin rescinded it. Moiraine made a point of swearing to obey Suian.
When you said "the landscape itself", I wanted to coin the term Lanscape whenever Lan looks majestically out at the world from a cliff in the show.
😂
mat staying back and what happens arround barney harris is just heartbreaking. It just feels wrong, not just from an adaptation standpoint, but also for everything the show has done so far with the character. I really hope they can get over this huge hurdle
*Spoiler for non book readers* They gonna have him reunite with Thom, and then maybe eventually met up the others at The Stone!?
Barney Harris was such a great cast for the role too. His face really matches how I pictured Mat - pretty boy with that perpetual hint of a smile - and pulled off the role as outwardly never concerned about anything, mischievous playboy during the first couple of episodes really well.
I hope he just didn't want to commit to this potentially huge commitment so early in his career (typecasting is a thing), and not some personal problems getting in the way - you know, drugs, alcohol, depression...
@@Chairay I don't think he left because of possible typecasting. if that would'Ve been an issue he probably wouldn't have accepted the role in the first place. you can't accept a role such as this without expecting to play this character for a long time. I hope everything is ok as well, but that or some differnces of opinion (like disagreement about vaxinations) are the only things that I can think of that would cause him to disapear so suddenly.
@@danielflintknapping *MORE SPOILERS*
...
If they hadn't done it out of necessity, I'd have said this is where they reveal that he was in fact not fully healed, and succumbed to the dagger pulling him back, or being able to feel Machin Shin in the ways (leaning into the fan-theory that Machin Shin and the Shadar Logoth corruption are related.)
But now everyone is theorizing about how this could lead into an explanation for a new actor, and I don't really see how they could pull that off other than making him disappear for a while, and then reintroduce him with something like literally changing bodies (like the forsaken later in the book series.)
I am a little underwhelmed by how they pulled off necessary changes/reductions in story and characters so far tbh, so I am not sure they will be able to make some good decisions more or less on their feet about this problem.
Speculation alert:
Here's how I would handle the Mat situation.
Mat was only partially healed by Moiraine, and is still strongly drawn to the dagger. That's why he stayed behind, because he couldn't bear to leave the dagger, which is locked away in the tower. So while the others go on their adventure to the Eye of the World, Mat slinks back to the Tower and is caught trying to break in to get the dagger. The Yellow sisters then heal him thoroughly, by a process so intense it alters his physical appearance!
Once Mat's healed, Siuan knows he's a potential Dragon, so she can't let him leave. Maybe she hires him to work in the stables just to stall him, while a gang of warders keeps trying to recruit him because he's pretty good with a bow staff.
After a little while, it's time for Siuan's official state visit to Shienar (how convenient) so she takes Mat along, unaware that Padan Fain is following. Once Mat is reunited with the group, let The Great Hunt begin.
You know that wouldn't be a problem that needed to be solved if they had just fallowed the plot of the book.
@@phantomviper211 But they need an excuse to change Mat's face anyway. Though, I highly doubt they'll even try to explain the new actor.
Holy shit, this is such a good way to fix that. Thanks for allaying my fears, haha :))
No please. Just don't do that. It's understandable if the actor looks different. This just sounds contrived.
Nah, it would be absolutely awful if they tried to tie the recast into the story. You dont want the viewers to be EVEN MORE distracted by it by bringing it up, not to mention not making any sense. Theres been plenty of major recasts in plenty of shows and films, and the viewers deal with it
One issue I had - they could’ve just let Mat be sick, instead of Moiraine healing him. Could have left him with the Yellows to heal. Start season 2 with the new Mat getting healed, screaming in the old tongue yada yada.
I don’t get the impression that he’s fully healed yet, and given how abruptly the actor left, they probably didn’t have a chance to film a scene setting that up.
They would've had to cut out/reshoot some of the scenes with him in, since the actor apparently left abruptly, but it's still doable.
Bruh …… they need to hire you because I didn’t even think that 😂. But yeah , her soloing mashadar was irky .
I think leaving Mat sick rather than having Moiraine heal him (for now, as I got the impression it didn’t fully work) messes up the character arcs for both Nyneave and Rand. Healing Mat proved to Rand that he can trust Moiraine if a man can channel. It also smacked Nyneave’s Aes Sedai prejudice down hard. Without those character development moments, I don’t see Rand and Nyneave both going through the portal at the end of the episode, as both have been too contrary to Moiraine before the healing. Changing that scene might have made Mat’s exit easier, but might have screwed up other storylines too drastically to be worth it.
They could have had Moiraine say she couldn't manage to heal him completely, just like in the books. But since they didn't, I'm guessing they are planning something more dramatic, ie Mat touches the dagger again and becomes fully possessed by Mordeth or just irreversibly possessed by the black stuff. Then Nynaeve refuses to give up on Mat, and manages to awaken the old blood in him, enough to overpower the black stuff and gradually consume it instead like a fertilizer.
To be truthful, I have been deeply unsatisfied with this show. They have cut or changed things so much that I no longer can compare book characters to show. Nynaeve is probably the only one that feels the same to me. The real problem is fast tracking to Tar Valon and skipping Caimlyn. I gritted through the changes in the early episodes because changes are necessary, but now it doesn't feel like the wheel of time. It is, but a warped imitation with added drama and terribly placed info dumps. They needed to let the characters breath longer and not have tried to pack the entire book into one season. I am probably going to drop the show and just read the book for the fifth time.
LoL I agree, and the worst part to me was episode 5 was total BS. Basically, the entire episode did not happen in the book.
ok, don't watch it then. Problem solved.
Stop comparing the books to the show and finally realise that it's an adaptation, not a like-for-like (which would never be possible anyway) and you'll enjoy it more, guaranteed.
@@livewia oh I totally understand that. And I have tried to not compare, but it has been really hard. Sadly, I am a completionist so I will probably continue to torture myself and complete the season. I am hoping for my brain to compartmentalize this as just another fantasy show and stop comparing what I had imagined to what is. I have also not read the whole series and I just might enjoy the later seasons.
@@VultureClone no it's not problem solved. It's a fucking disaster of a show and we should all hope it gets cancelled. It's not just a VERY poor adaptation - it's a bad show in general.
Edit: Possible spoiler!
Seems like people keep confusing Ba'alzamon with the dark one. I suspect Siuan has "visions" from Ba'alzamon, (whom she and the others think is the dark one) where he's trying to lure her to send the dragon to the eye of the world, so Ba'alzamon can get his hands on the Dragon before they come into their power. Just a thought.
This is my idea too, it's like the books Tinker/Jain manipulation to get them to the eye but less subtle
Isn't this a bit spoilery for people who didn't haven't the books?
...Not that they would any clue to what is happening.
Ish....
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS
Ba'alzamon IS the dark one, it's just another name for him. The confusion in the books is that everyone keeps mistaking Ishamael for Ba'alzamon - including Ishamael, who is going mad due to channelling the True Power for too long. All of the times with the guy with the firey eyes is Ishamael.
@@matscales Spoilers
Ba'alzamon is Ishamael, it was the name he was given during the trolloc wars. Because of how he was sealed away he could manifest every 1000 years for a few decades and during the trolloc wars he appeared and lead the armies under the name ba'alzamon. Ishamael likely thought he was the dark one because of his madness, however ba'alzamon was definitely Ishamael.
I love how egwene thinks she is the strong channeler they were talking about and was kind feeling proud but gets disappointed when they say its nyn
I found the way they dropped Mat really clunky. Like, my first thought when Daniel mentioned that is why didn't they just say he needed a lot of time to recover from the dagger?
Yes this was my only major gripe with an otherwise great episode. He’s too weak to travel, he’ll wait at the Tower until they return
They couldnt do that because they explained that all possible dragons need to be at the eye of the world.. If mat was the dragon and they left him behind for healing, the whole plan would be a disaster. So the show wrote itself into a corner with barney harris leaving.
@@JustScrapHD But he did not go and Moiraine said nothing at the end so was he really needed. And if its really needed then show a clip of him walking in with them taken from the walking clips with him and rand then next episode say he got lost in the ways and have the people calling out for him.
The writers are to dumb to realize this.
I’m fine with most changes for the sake of show length. The waygates requiring channeling is weird though, because if I remember right the waygates were pretty much for non channellers because channellers could just Travel. It’s weird. Also the old waygate design was more classic fantasy which I liked more and fit with the Ogier.
I agree. It sort of reduces the importance of Loial.
@@Mugdorna LMFAO, I forgot that the creators of the Waygates could travel. The facepalm is so severe that my shoulder dislocated...
I also am confused why they decided to put in so much filler and plot from book 2 if they were short on time. Why did they need to cut out so many actually important scenes but did have time for all that drama with that random warder last episode, Siuan's backstory, etc? They had plenty of time, they just haven't used it well.
@@Mugdorna Loial would still be reqired to navigate the Ways. And it's always possible that, after the Ways became tainted, the Waygate at Tar Valon was warded, so the One Power is needed to enter that particular gate.
Abd then, horses can't survive so let's just kick them off into the wilderness? I mean, what???
My absolute favorite part of this episode was Alanna being handed a snack by her warder as soon as they left the Hall of the Tower!
I thought that was cool too!
Samedt lol love our foodie queen
That being your favorite thing about the episode is such an unintentional condemnation it'd be funny if it wasn't so sad.
They know her so well and I love it. The poly group brings me life
@@toneycallis3783 it’s a very clever way to add a little to the character and it being a fig that she was smelling after coming out of that space too just felt like it added soo many layers. It wasn’t a simple Apple or something, it was a sumptuous fig and it really added to showing how the link can influence how the group acts. Just such a good little detail that I have rolled over in my head just like she did with it in her hand in that scene really taking it in.
10:10 Did anyone else think they met in the world of dreams? Siuan’s room looks different then it did when Nynaeve and Egwene go to meet her. Could be totally wrong though!
I assumed they warped straight to the hut where Siuan grew up. I mean you can see its made of something like bamboo, thats definetly not a room in the tower
It's definitely Tel'aran'rhiod, in my opinion. Later in the episode they show Siuan's chambers in the Tower and she also has the same Ter'angreal in her room (unless we are to believe Siuan is in Moraine's Chambers, which I can't buy).
@@jlvanvalk It's two Ter'angreal in the books, but Novices chatting to each others is also fairly common which if memory serves is how that set that up in the books.
Love the thoughts everyone :)
Yea it had to be. As a book reader it was easy to tell with the room being like a fishing hut. It was definitely not a tower room.
Sending young women on their own to the tower was quite common in the books. It's mentioned many times and also contributed to the white towers dwindling power levels. They eventually stopped going around as much looking for women who can Channel and instead sat in the tower expecting all of them to come to the tower on their own.
Those young women won't make it to the tower tho. The odds that a 13 year old (or however old she's supposed to be, it's confusing to me cause she don't seem to have curves yet but she's channeling and that shouldn't be possible at all) manages to make those few thousand km's travel from Tear to the Tower are practically non-existent, especially going through a land where channeling is a crime.
Which also explains why the Whitecloaks are roaming around outside the tower: what better way to destroy your enemy than capture and kill their recruits before they become trained?
@Anne Day tbh i always read this as hinting that the people who lived to become aes sedai in this age were almost exclusively Ta'Veren. It would explain the White Towers reputation and impact on the world, in consideration with certain things we know about the numbers of channellers in the world.
@@csarmii Ta'Veren
@Anne Day none of the Ajahs are useless, we just dont see their roles demonstrated properly because theres a lot to cover in the books. The white tower is an analogy for the white house, or a similar style of government, and each of the Ajahs is somewhere between a political party, and an infrastructural branch of the govt. The greys handle foreign relations and social issues, the whites handle legal and infrastructural issues, the browns and yellows are the Academic branches, the green are the military, the reds are the cops, and the blues are the cia/fbi.
As a book reader I’m having a very difficult time watching this series as a stand-alone show and I’m trying to enjoy it. But so many things bothering me.
Same for me. Feels so rushed and unfinished and so many important things are left out.
I will try to stick it out through the next two episodes and then im probably done. Hate to say it, but it should just be canceled.
Horrible show: full of woke propoganda.
As a non-book reader, I am thoroughly enjoying the show. Maybe the showrunners are doing a good job with the adaptation because I honestly have very few gripes so far, and none of them are that serious.
As a non-book reader, I’m pretty much done with the show. Seeing how badly they’ve messed this up makes me worried for the LOTR middle earth series still in the works. I may not have read Wheel of Time but I consider myself a huge fan of high fantasy and this show is disappointing.
Something that they could do, since we haven't had a whole lot of Aes Sedai interacting with outsiders yet; is they have that serene calmness outwardly, but drop that mask when it's just Sisters in the room. That kind of code switching would be realistic and reasonable to pull off.
That's the only thing you'd suggest to make it "more reasonable?"
How did you feel about Lews Therin Kinslayer reborn with a vagina?
also very in line with with the books, as that was very much the case
@@JaysSavvy A 40% possibility that, granted, is nowhere in the books. How about that single movie condensing 7 books called The Dark Tower? Money changed hands, we get to live with it.
@@calebdrew5684 "We get to live with it."
Peasant sentiment. You only "have to live with it" because you don't have the testicular fortitude to voice your disgust.
@@JaysSavvy Blowing in the wind needs balls, wow. What kind of retribution do you expect? I seen all kinds of bs on the web, but patting yourself on the back for making tantrums is peak internent for sure.
While the oath rod scene was a little odd, I *did* like how they had Moiraine reword the oath such that she doesn't actually swear the oath to the Amyrlin, but to specifically Suian. Gives her wiggle room in the future if there are, umm, staff changes....
While Mat's exit doesn't fit with Moiraine's claims, there's a bright side: we now have an avenue to keep Bela tied to the story XD. Hey, now he *can* be a horse trader!
I loved the change to Siuan, but I hated that she included all the little nuances in it, like "clever as a pike", etc., because if any Sister who is politically savvy (and they're in the Hall of the Tower, those should be Sitters in that room with the Amyrlin, so they'd *better* be politically savvy) is immediately going to realize that there's much, much more to Siuan and Moiraine's relationship than what the two have made apparent.
I caught that too, how Moraine swore to Siuan, not the seat. I loved that.
@@paradoxdriver4094 yeah agreed. I think they want us to believe she was speaking too low for others to hear, but still, why would you risk blowing your cover?
@@paradoxdriver4094 I think they might have been using the oath rod scene as a wedding of sorts. Moraine swore to her with more than words.
Siuan said 'Swear to the Amyrlin Seat' and I had a moment of panic thinking Elaida was going to be at the end of that oath.
Just putting it out there that the name "Amyrlin Seat" mean both the chair and the authority/position is taken directly from Roman Catholicism where the position of the Pope (and also the chair) is called the Holy See. The Amyrlin is just the Aes Sedai Pope.
Holy seat. Saint-Siège.
I haven't read the books yet, but I thought it was so stupid when they said that they should send all of them to the dark one already
ah yes let's take this child who doesn't even know how yo properly channel and make them fight the big bad. Nothing could go wrong
Moiraine did heal him in Caemlyn but didn't completely cut him from the dagger but I get how it would be less complicated in the TVshow to just have her cut the dagger away fully now and have Mat get a hold of the dagger again at a later date and it being really bad. It would make sense in that scenario how the second time it's a lot worse and would require more sisters.
Also, maybe they cut that out entirely. Now May already has that memory loss and that confused him at the end, therefore he did not enter the ways. It has to be because of the dagger, otherwise Mat is a very loyal and reliable person, he would never do that.
@@ToweringPsychic uhm matt is shown to try to bail multiple times in the first few books and the only thing that keeps him is the ta'veren bond. It why I was so puzzled about people liking Mat so much as I was reading the books. He has changed but initially he would have bailed on everyone given half a chance.
@@damp2269 Mostly because of the dagger. Nynaeve and Egwene discuss about his reliability too. Once the dagger’s effect is gone, I don’t remember him bailing on anyone. Oh, he talks about bailing quite a lot, but he never does.
@@ToweringPsychic Maybe he'll go touch the dagger again and the Tower will find him while everyone is up North?
@@applegeepedigree doubt that. They probably don’t have the time to let Mat and the dagger storyline stretch out too long.
I have the feeling that the meeting between Siuan and Moraine wasn't in Siuan's rooms. I believe it was her home in Tear and they are "dreaming". I love your channel. Thanks for your work.
I agree that that's the most sensible explanation, but Dreaming belongs to Egwene as part of her journey and specifically is not a power familiar to the Aes Sedai. They're opening up all sorts of plot holes by making it happen in a Dream. Why would Egwene go to the Wise Ones if she can learn all about Dreaming from Aes Sedai in the Tower?
@@definitelynotobama6851 I also thaught it was a dream. (or her home in tear). Defenetly not her room in the Tower.
You could justify it that its an angreal only moraine and Siuan new.
They arent instantly experts in it. The wise ones would say they are foolish and ignorant of the dangers (tipical Aes Sedai). So the whise ones are stil neaded.
Agree. And in the scene with Siuan meeting the Two Rivers girls, you can see her Ter'angrel that matches Moraine's (but with a different picture) (15:23)
I didn't think it was a dream because Moiraine didn't go to sleep. She used that terangreal to open a portal. I assumed Siuan has a secret hideaway away from the tower and they meet there.
They both used matching ter'angreals to go to a third location in the dreamworld where they could be alone without being discovered. Both have the same painting frame in their rooms and the location they meet at is most definitely not Suian's quarters in the tower.
I think the need to channel to open the Waygate is actually a pretty big deal, given that the Ways were originally designed - in the books at least - as a gift to the Ogier, to be used by people who couldn't Travel.
This is nitpicking but I also hated how Loial wasn't hesitant to go into the ways. In the books he absolutely did not want to go jn there and was afraid of the black wind. But here jn the show he's just like oh the ways are cool its another dimension in time and space then just heads inside. Loials warning and fear in the book really gave a sense of dread about the ways and they just fucking blew that
Ter angreal key could really easily fix this.
@@Tom-Servo Totally agree. They really missed out a lot of worldbuilding with the Ways.
@@Tom-Servo in the books, its also forbidden by the ogiers.. oh well
It’s a cap healing, in the books she “temporarily healed” him as well, he may need more healing later esp if he touches the dagger again
She healed his cap? What?
@@matthewjaredcox9753 like a band-aid
I think the series suffers from its limitation, the season should have been 10 episodes.
As I have been commenting, the problem with me and this series is the lack of development in the four protagonists with what the series opened. The series did not enter its journey, or tribulations, dealing with the separation or its circumstances, it simply did a time skip. So for me ... The ending didn't have a strong impact (I'm not a reader). If we had spent more time with Mat and Rand trying to deal with what was happening to him, it would have been different.
Anyway ... For me, they should have focused more on the trip. Extend the season two more episodes to be able to develop the characters to a good level. And so, make us care about their decisions. I said it in the previous episode, they focused too much on creating a good worldbuilding without falling into info dump, than on developing the central characters. For something the most developed characters are those central to worldbuilding. They benefited from being present.
To love the series, I needed more Rand and Mat; Egwene and Perrin on the roads.
P.D: Watching the episode I remembered that Mat's actor left the series and will be recast. And I felt it ... It was my favorite of the group. u_u
Well they still have time to add some warder melodrama etc.
With thc next episode being "the dark along the ways" perhaps we'll get more traveling together character interactions that we missed during the month time jump. The majority of episode may be dedicated to that.
@@janlanik2660 Yes, there is still time in the future, but the point is that we are in the final act of the first season and I know more about the dynamic between Alanna and her two ward than the dynamic between Rand-Mat-Perrin-Egwene.
@@janlanik2660 If I wanted a soap opera, I'd tune in to daytime tv. xD
@@nathanmorgan3647 This show has became a daytime tv soap
I get the feeling that this whole first season felt like "we want to tell a complete story, and we don't know if we're going to get 1 season to do that or several"
That is every screenwriter’s dilemma.
Except they turned down an offer of more episodes (so I hear) and rush-cut the story so that any impact of the climax will be muted, and the show would be forgotten as a lame generic fantasy.
@@davidwilson6577 where did you hear that? I thought the showrunner has said that he begged for a 2h pilot and 10 episodes but was denied.
@Jamie Care Yeah same. I have never heard anything about Rafe possibility getting more and him turning it down.
I'm very probably wrong about that then. Still when you have the entirety of episode 5 that does nothing for the plot, world, or characters... they cut so much and have nothing to show for it.
I personally think the gate wasn’t to Siuan’s room, but to Tel’alan’rhiod. Based on how different her rooms seem later on in the episode.
That's what I thought but they shouldn't be so proficient there if it is.
@@joshuasigelman8141 Maybe they were there in the flesh?
Also if I recall correctly, Siuan had a similar looking painting in her “normal” room, instead of the one that looked like her childhood home. This would also suggest towards t’a’r, or similar.
@@jusatin The Aes Sedai have no idea how to enter in the flesh , Egwene discovers that ability .
@@Scuderia47 by themselves. But if they are using a ter’angreal, they could use it in the show. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they changed that for the show as well.
I assumed it was the dream world too!
Suan was a horrific tyrant in this episode. Her punishment of Logaine was not at all how gentled men are treated, even a false dragon, and she even spoke of men who “dare to channel” as if it was their fault, which is something a red would say. And of course there’s the “my tower, my city, my world” line which puts her up as a monstrous dictator. And binding someone to obedience with the oath rod is a horrifying suggestion in the books that would have instantly turned everyone against her. Oh, and her whole handling of the situation with Moiraine was unbelievably stupid, making a scene for no good reason (could easily have just said she has no right to interfere with blue business) and then blaming it on Moiraine, who did nothing but refuse to give away all their plotting when Suan seemed to be trying to force her to. This episode was heaps upon heaps of stupid and fell flat as a 2/10 for me. Just about the only positive I can think of is that the exorcism was done incredibly well, as inaccurate as it is and as problematic as the implications are for the future.
Their continuity experts fail.
Yay, an actual comment that's not licking the boots of the producers and overflowing with bias, properly pointing out how stupid these changes were.
@@Valkaneer you can still like the show, even with its flaws. The show is still good.
I'd give it a .5/10 honestly. This episode has me worried for the rest of the series.
@@VultureClone Eh, it's been enjoyable overall for me, but it's hard being a fan of the books and not recognizing dumb changes that add no value while still finding it enjoyable. For instance, Moraine has violated the 3 oaths, twice or alternatively, Aes Sedia are dumb as bricks now. The attempt at keeping things mysterious on the Dragon is causing a cascade of poor narrative choices.
Without spoiling too much, I’m pretty confident Siuan’s dream is going to be a trap by a character we’ve seen before.
The Oath Rod stuff didn’t bug me since you have to find ways to introduce this to new viewers somehow. Maybe not the most elegant solution but not a big deal for me.
They got time they coulda just worked with the oaths. Or they so inclined to create useless characters so they could of just shown a raising of an AS
Which character? U can tell me I have read the books
Maybe introduce the oath rod when .... oh I don't know.... certain characters become Aes Sedai?!?!?! FACEPALM PEOPLE FACEPALM
@@JohnDoe-sx2ij Ishamael- he's a very powerful dreamwalker
That’s actually a really good point on it being a trap.
I didn't know Barney Harris had left the show, the ending scene makes more sense now.
That sucks, I liked his performance. Hope all is well.
yeah it makes me sad because he is the perfect Mat to me.
I wish they would have implied he was too weak to make the trip from instead, showing the effects of healing.
@@icedadx44x My understanding is that they filmed that scene after his departure and after COVID shut down filming for a bit. He was clearly supposed to enter the Ways with them, so they didn't really have an opportunity to set up much foreshadowing to him being left behind.
He has been recast for season 2.
Suian's dream definitely felt more like she was given that dream by a certain someone.
Also, about the Mat scene. While I get Barney wasn't around after for the last 2, the scene itself feels more like they had something else planned. After all if he never returned at all, he couldn't have done that scene afterwards. It also felt a little awkward that it cut away, and that Moiraine wasn't worried, or that everyone was saying hurry. I imagine the original plan was to have him dash forward and make it in the last second. But when they returned to film the last 2, things had to be shuffled. Though I am wondering if Donal showed up for those last 2 or not. Moiraine just seemed to chill. Plus, I mean, she can just reopen it straight away right? Guess we'll find out next episode.
yeah what's the big deal? this isn't a one way thing, she can open the door back up.
Yeah it all makes sense, but I believ it was just incredibly unfortunate what happened there, they probably really couldn't have done it in a different way, the plan was obviously a different one, I think we'll just have to forgive that :(
Real shame Barney won't be playing Mat anymore, his Mat has easily been the best character to watch so far
@@anatandyaniv i guess from now on the gateways are one-way only... crazy how an actor leaving the set can lead to such a bizarre and big change
There is a reason why nobody uses the ways anymore. They could fit in a scene where the crumbling state or a certain lurking entity forces them forward. That scene might be a bit clunky but it might let us hurry the plot in the ways along. Don't get me wrong, the ways are cool but I don't want to spent the majority of the episode there...
I think they overthought their reasons to go to the Eye. They could have just added a line to the Karatheon Cycle. Moiraine could say "Dunno which of these 5 is our Dragon" and Siuan could say "The Dragon will be revealed at The Eye of the World" and Moiraine goes "Road Trip!"
one of these 4 - Nyneave cannot be the Dragon Reborn - she is too old. One of the next 2 episodes is going to be the flashback to the Aiel War, which will take a significant chunk of screentime. Besides, the whole concept of the Dragon is strictly a male thing. Claiming it could be female is like claiming Birgitte can be male. The wheel doesn't genderbend the heroes.
@@robertperrotto870 funny joke bud, but the dragon does canonically have a female form. Her name is Ameresu (based on Amaterasu from Japanese Shinto)
@@aidangrey00 What ? Where did you get that idea from ?
Ameresu is a hero bound to the Wheel, not a The Dragon from the past. She's even there when... SPOILERS
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS
Mat blows the Horn of Valere.
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS
RJ himself stated that the Dragon's soul is always Male, regardless of the turning of the wheel because souls are gendered in his universe and can't change.
There's supposed to be a lot more Ta'veren motivation for going to the Eye... They would have been better off going to Shayol Ghul and accidentally arriving at the Eye instead.
I think show-Nynaeve lost her parents in the Aiel War, too, so flashbacks to the Aiel War might make both Rand and Nynaeve seem more likely candidates. The reference to being hidden in a cellar as a little girl seems to imply it. Her parents couldn't be from caerhein, though - the caerheinin are the only people consistently described as pale in the books, I think, so there's probably even more mysterious backstory there which I'm looking forward to discovering!
I liked how when Moiraine is drinking tea in that little alcove all the teacups on other tables are still steaming- looks like everyone booked it out of the way of Moiraine!
Book 1 spoilers:
Moiraine does partially heal Mat in book 1! Also I think Siuan is being persuaded by a certain someone to lead the dragon into a TRAP. I also loved how Egwene starts to puff up with pride when Siuan is talking about Nyn being a powerful channeler, I died laughing at that cause that’s just so accurate to Egwene
Still think it's partial heal, Matt needs to be ravenous, he isn't here, he did consume as per Lan plenty of alcohol
Spoiler i guess or smth.
Yeah, i agree with the trap. since suian is no dreamer its bugged me when she stated she had dreams. unless they changed the whole dreamworld mechanics that means her dreams had to be invaded.
On a different note: i think in this episode we got foreshadowing of liandrin working with seanchan. that man in northharbor... i mean... a red... seeing a man.... pressXtoDoubt.jpeg
She does partially heal Mat in the books, but they were in Caemlyn and she knew she had to bring him to the Tower. Here they are already in Tar Valon, so it's a bit odd, unless again she knows way less than in the books like with the prophecies.
Poor Egwene.
i loved that
@@TheLoser95
The man in North Harbor probably another Darkfriend.
I’m really sad about Barney Harris, he was absolutely killing it as Matt
lol. They might as well have called him "Bland" in this show.
@@Nico_Conradie You're obviously not enjoying the show, why not move on to something else? Or do you just like complaining?
@@knz730 exactly it’s a bunch of these idiots doing this this like read the book and stick to it if the show is annoying you. Matt’s actor was superb and I’m sad to see him go. 😩
@@knz730 perhaps it is because, like the sword of truth and shannara, the showrunners are absolutely fucking up Jordans work. There are so many "creative license" arguments that can be made before what is being produced is no longer what was originally created. This is legalized plaguerism, and shows based on books have a duty to the readers first, as they are the base you are trying to appeal to in order to produce a financially viable television show. $10 million per episode is going to get this cancelled if the reader base leaves.
@@knz730 I do in fact quite enjoy to shit on this dumpster fire of a tv show yes. The show is just plain terrible. A crime against WoT readers, Robert Jordan and humanity in general.
Mentioning the excellent part where Swan is saying "we have one of the most powerful channelers of all time before us" and seeing Iguanes face thinking that she's receiving a compliment, then the moment Nyneves name is said she's just dumbfounded. I was cracking up! Also, the part where Nuneves like "Are you done blowing smoke up our asses?" TO THE AMYRLIN SEAT
Lol the names. In case you are not trolling it's Siuan, Egwene and Nyneave haha
@@ArdArdArd123 Idk, I feel like I"m totally on board with Iguanas.
@@paradoxdriver4094 Iguana Sedai 🦎
@@ArdArdArd123 I think it's autocorrect
Audiobook listener alert. Haha. Anyway I agree. I liked tray scene.
12:30 My understanding was that they had a problem trying to figure out which of those kids was actually the Dragon. Siuan Sanche's plan to solve it was (paraphrasing) "Hey let's take them all up to the Dark One's Prison and see which one the Dark One freaks out over!" Also, I think the Angreal info will come out next season when certain persons get their Aei Sedai training. We will all be schooled then.
As much as I see Barney Harris, it physically hurts me knowing that he'll be replaced 😭 he's the best part of the show right now
Why is he being replaced? Is this confirmed?
@@Lol-hy1ry yes it's confirmed but we don't know why
Maybe they will say the dagger changed his physical appearance lol
He's hardly in it at all so far. Not a big loss.
@@jordanprado5806 haha. Its not beyond rafe to say that.
I didn't mind moiraine having to swear an oath, but then swearing it like a lover saying farewell felt very weird given they're in the hall of the tower and everyone can hear
Don't let cohesion, plot, or worldbuilding get in the way of a good 'got me in the feels' scene.
did not you get that part was a whisper for Siuans ears only... then the rest was very loud for everyone to hear
@@Berndr Even so this is such a possible endangerment of the mission that I can't see it fit with Moiraine's character.
@@f.carasind4188 from an outsider's perspective it can be seen as Moiraine giving even more disrespect to Siuan by laying it on thick, but not being so blatant that it gets her punished. Or as an acknowledgment that Moiraine actually has no ill-will towards Siuan even in penance by emphasis of describing her the way that she did before getting exiled. Or, a typical Aes Sedai thought, as Moiraine purposely messing with everyone in the hall by subtly implying that they're still close, even though they know that cannot be the case in any circumstance.
You have to remember that it is said that Aes Sedai invented Daes Dae'mar, and Moiraine, born a noble of a king's house, has been playing it her whole life. Aes Sedai overthink these situations in circles, in my eyes what she said to Siuan was fitting and emotionally resonant
@@f.carasind4188 You would if you were in hear head thinking you will never see Siuan again ... it was good bye
Are we not gonna talk about the fact that Moiraine clearly says “I didn’t know she could channel” which is either a flat out lie if she didn’t know Nynaeve could, or lore breaking for the magic system because women can feel that almost instantly when in contact with each other.
I think in this instance, She got around lying By saying she didn't "know" but had her "suspicions". Knowing would be if she saw her channel or something close.
@@K_C_Gaming_ Yes, or something like. I knew she could touch the one power, but not that she can channel it.
*SPOILER*
...
Well, considering that Nynaeve is blocking herself and is only able to channel in certain circumstances, and given they keep that in the show, that could be an explanation for why Moiraine could not tell right away. Might not be perfectly in line with book canon, but not the biggest problem I have with the storyline so far.
I'd rather like to know how the Liandrin's accusations were a big deal in the first place. "She didn't tell us about the trollocs in the 2 rivers while she was on the run, bringing 2 new channellers to the tower! booohooo" and "She didn't tell us one of them could channel, when this was the first time she did it in Moiraine's presence, and none of us could tell before that either - boo-double-hoo" - and how would Moiraine refusing to give her motives for her presence in the two rivers ever warrant any punishment at all, given that Aes Sedai are doing secretive stuff all the freaking time, and keeping it in their Ajar at best?
The punishment does not make any sense either: you are mad your Aes Sedai does not tell you why she was visiting some remote place, better send her out again with no obligation to report at all. Yes, that was their plan, but how can the other Aes Sedai accept that nonsense?
@@Chairay That was my issue as well with the punishment. How did none of the Sitters call foul when Moiraine was out of the tower for so long already. I think this episode got jacked because of Barney leaving and they rushed to rewrite stuff to fix it. Overall I am going to give them this ONE and only pass for this episode because of the event that took place. After this though, if we see more of the silliness then I am going to have to start working towards a thumbs down.
It's just the bad writing from Amazon. I have a feeling the creators of this show, have never read any of the books. Certainly seems to be the case. Robert Jordan must be turning around in his grave.
I laughed my ass off when The amyrlin was telling them off. Here is Liandrin. One of The most composed powerfull women in the world and she is acting EXATLY as my 4 year old al of a sudden.
The fact that MR greene ignores that siuan can channel perfektly fine at 11 years of age or so makes The rest unbalanced.
Best line in my head
'She can wait'
Morain: 'she waits for only one woman, and its not you'
I'm beginning to get a bit tired of Nynaeve. The constant childish bitching is really getting annoying - but it those clapbacks were beautiful.
TO be honest, that one frustrated me a bit. We were *just* shown how important it is to them that their relationship remain secret (Moiraine and Suian). How dire their situation is if anyone finds out they're faking anything.
But then we have Moiraine and Suian openly crying during her banishment... while Moiraine calls her pet-names???????!!! Moiraine saying things aloud like "She waits on only one woman, and it's not you", when Liandrin JUST finished flexing how good her eyes-and-ears are?!
I just...don't get it...
@@robnoxiousplays2385 I haven't read the books just to be clear so my attachments and understanding may be wrong.
I like to think moraine knew she was out of ear shot, and that nynaeve would have no clue so it didn't matter.
And regarding pet names and crying, weren't most people turned around at that point? And if not, I imagine people knew they were friends previously and viewed it as a hard choice for them to make
@@robnoxiousplays2385 I think Moiraine was out of earshot when she made the changes to the oath and added the pet name stuff because she was pretty much shouting at the end in comparison. And I think most would consider the crying as parting of friends or longtime colleagues since the other red brought up blue favoritism during their trial for Logain.
YES!!!!
While Mat's health noticeably improved he was still left weak for a while afterward. In the book he woke up after being healed a little different. His luck was more noticeable, but he was left ravenous, frail, and weak. He had trouble getting around so he started walking with the quarterstaff. The interaction with Hammar, Gawyn, and Galad sticks out in particular because at several points it's noted that he had been sick for a while, and was still weak from it. Since we won't be getting the scene with the group healing, or the training ground scene I mentioned it kind of makes sense that they'd just have Moraine heal him of darkness alone. After all, in the series she refused to speak to the others about what she was doing and who she had with her. Moraine healing Mat by herself shows this might not have been typical healing so much as it could be a flow to handle "Darkness".
I feel like a better way to seperate Mat would have been for them not to notice until the gate had closed. Like they turn around and see the closed gate and they're all like "Oops we left Mat"
Like Home Alone? I dig it.
I was thinking the exact same thing. His face would have made more sense, like he was looking at the closed gate, alone. And it would also had solved the problem of Moiraine doing nothing.
Or better yet, some dialogue explaining that the Healing was extensive and he's unable to travel until he regains his strength. Having him abandon his friends like that is so out of character, it's jarring.
Also, what's preventing the Waygate from being opened again?
@@PBOlad Yes but instead of Daniel Stern and Joe Pesci Mat has to deal with Grey man and Gholam.
You guys don't watch with subtitles of course, but the innkeeper were Mat and Rand rest is named Basel Gill (you see the name when he speaks).. big change again, but it's never said out loud so it can be changed anytime
Spoilers**
I would imagine that Liandrin's knowing Mat's name, and him still being in Tar Valon near the dagger can lead to a storyline where he gets near the dagger and the corruption increases, and alongside this Liandrin will manipulate things so that he ends up going west on the missing ship investigation leading to Falme.
At least those were possible things that could be building based off of the changes.
I think you are on to something here.
Mat was my favorite character in the books, so this was a bit of a bummer. Barney Harris did a great job acting, hope he’s alright. All his jokes landed, as always. My main complaint is lack of character building for Edmonds 5 so far
The actor probably got around to reading the books, saw what a absolute dumpster fire the series is and decided to jump ship. I consider him the smart one.
Perfect casting. Shame.
I kinda disagree in that I thought Barney Harris was perfect as the dagger-infected Matt but missed that fun, boyish prankster that made him so enjoyable in the books BEFORE his infection...
Sure, you could say he was agreed up, but he kept that charm and boyish troublemaker personality right to the end of the series, so I don't think that mattered.
As a book fan I think this episode gave me the most whiplash in terms of changes. The oath rod being used to publicly swear an oath of fealty, Moraine's tears, Loial being asked to come but then having no role with opening the Waygate... The acting is wonderful and there is so much to appreciate overall, but for me this episode had a lot of changes that didn't enhance the story for me.
Loial is the guide through the ways I think, not the opener of the gate. In the books literally anyone can open them
I think the inviting of Loial will deal with the reading of the Guideposts inside of the Ways, since that's why they keep bringing him through the Ways (besides him being able to feel them). I think it's just very clunky that they haven't given an answer of why he's there in the episode he joins them or anybody of the EF5 asking why he's there. (Like he's brand new to Perrin/Egwene).
@@saethone Absolutely fair point. It's certainly a minor change, but I guess I just felt it more with all of the bigger changes earlier in the episode and the clunkiness Adam mentioned. Even Siuan inviting Nynaeve and Egwene to call her by her first name rather than mother felt off to me 😓. Looking forward to the next episodes though, and perhaps a rewatch will make the changes resonate more.
@@Sunlit_Reading I think the Suian by her first name thing was because the two aren't novices yet.
@@saethone In the books nearly everyone outside of the Tower calls the Amyrlin Seat mother when they encounter her. Egwene and Nynaeve not yet being novices was the justification the show used, but for me it felt off.
They've absolutely wrecked the entirety of the world building the entire show this is honestly depressing
Perhaps this comment has already been left by someone else but: REQUIRING CHANNELING TO USE THE WAY GATES IS HUGE. Daniel touches on it for this once instance, but trolloc transportation by way gate happens more than once. This will affect many plot points from the books as trolloc units led by non-channeling... individuals will now need a channeling member in or around them to access the ways. Also, must you also have a channeler to get you back out of the ways? That makes things even more complicated. Like I don't mind the change, it feels pretty natural to the magic system and world building, but the domino effect for future events is bigger than it first seems. Will have to see how this plays out.
(This has been my general take from most of the changes in the show so far. I don't outright dislike them, but the series is so long and complicated that these small changes could have huge impacts for how events play out down the road. I take an "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality and it seems many non-broken things keep getting fixed. Whatever happens, I am certainly interested to see where they take things!)
It’s one of loials main story lines early on I don’t know why they didn’t give him 5 mins to open it and explain the dangers. They put pointless stuff in a rush important points
Is channeling required, though, or merely possible? If it's just an option that particularly powerful channelers can do it, they can leave the book methods intact for everyone else.
every "little" change they make has massive implications further into the story. I can almost guarantee they will either hand wave the problems away or just write in plot genies
It also changes the whole story of why and how the Ways were created in the first place. In the books the male Aes Sedai created the ways for the Ogier to have quick easy access to their home steddings without the need of an Aes Sedai.
BOOK SPOILERS:
It is a big change, but I think they'll probably just have sisters of the Black Ajah help transport trolloc forces and then gtfo back to their scheming. It could actually be a pretty good change to visually show how many of the Aes Sedai out in the world are actually Black.
Honestly that episode just left me wondering what they're going to do to fix some of the problems it created, especially around Mat and the dagger.
They'll prolly just cut that arc entirely, and if not maybe use it as plot device down the line (if it ever gets that far). Won't get my hopes up though. The way they just brushed off the entire dagger thread like it's no biggie just rubbed me the wrong way for some reason. Ofcourse time contraint played a role here and they had cut out some stuff I get that, but on the one hand they spent so much time on OC I feel like that time would have been better served using book content to frame the narrative of the show. And that's my number one problem I have with the show. It feels more like an OC story that just happens to be in a world created by RJ rather than book content adapted to the screen. Major/minor book plot lines are rushed or cut out entirely while OC stuff get majority airtime. That is fine if that's the route they want to take the show (loved ep.6 for what it is, my new fav episode thus far), but using book content only as filler and plot devices to move the story forward feels very unsatifying to me as a long time book reader. Coming back to Mat and the dagger and the whole story arc that comes with it ending with the epic finale of book 2 (season 2?) is one the more interesting plot lines in the first 2 books and we'll prolly won't get to see it.
I took it as Mat staying back to fetch the knife.
Many of the plot points they skipped over are not really a problem, especially the ones around introducing other characters - in the books a lot of the characters are introduced early, but only become important much later, so that's something they can definitely work around.
I almost wish they had skipped the dagger entirely in the show (in the context of how the story developed), because I feel like there are only 2 possible outcomes for that storyline right now:
A) it becomes a MacGuffin - which it absolutely is, if you take all the character development it did for Mat in the books away (and they did that in the show)
B) it becomes entirely pointless and was just there to give something special to Mat, and keep him in the race for a possible dragon
If they had skipped the dagger, Mat and Rand would be equal in how insignificant they are in the show at this point, making Perrin and Nynaeve the strongest dragon candidates (might as well commit to how strongly they emphasize this mystery in the show), but leaves you wondering what role the other 3 will play, and if maybe one of them would turn out to be the dragon after all.
I don't really like the show so far. I think it's not terrible, but also not very good. But - as someone who has read the books twice, and listened to the audiobooks on top of that - I never liked Eye of the World much either, and the only reason I stuck with the books the first time around was the world building, the promise of other characters that were only briefly introduced becoming more important, more character development etc. IMO, the show does not capture some of the core themes of the books, and that's good in some parts, bad in others.
For example
Good change - Thank good they are not making every single character we get POV chapters for in the books stubborn idiots, only capable of thinking in stereotypes ("men!" "women!") and utterly incapable of empathy or opening up to their closest friends/lovers/partners/parents/siblings... Too many conflicts in the books are about two or more idiots trying to get their ways, utterly disregarding everyone else who might have a say in this.
Bad change - not much focus on the core theme of different personality types being forced into their roles, and how fighting against their supposed place in the pattern often puts them even more firmly into that role (Mat and Nyneave), or on the other end of the spectrum, how much they are overestimating their role (Egwane and Moirain)
Playing into another core theme (Bad change): how other people following their own agendas are usually missing how important it is for the characters to find their own ways, because they think _they_ themselves should be able to just use them like chess pieces (and not realizing that they are mere pawns in the grand picture, trying to dictate where the queen should be positioned.) In the show, other than Liandrin, there wasn't really anyone that made you question if they are maybe meddling with other's peoples life's to much, or whether they might be too ruthless in following their ulterior motives. So far the show is missing the political power struggle aspect entirely (but granted, it's not that important in book 1 either.)
TLDR; They can definitely work with the things they changed/skipped, but I personally don't really like what they have done so far. Still hoping it gets better with season 2, because I am not a big fan of the first book anyways - but also not sure, because they removed pretty much everything that made me start reading book 2.
@@Chairay The show is a mixed bag for me. Some parts I love to bits and other parts just make me a sad sack of potatoes with the direction they've gone.
Things I like: cast, view of the different locations.
Things I don't like: the hamfisted show OC stories (some of them pointless and unnecessary) they add nothing of importance to the plot as far as in context to the show itself and as far as the viewer knows, they're just there to score brownie points imho. All that airtime could've been used to do more world building and character development. I hate how they just brushed off/rushed certain story threads/events that pay off later down the line. That's not to say they might do it or might not do it all in the upcoming seasons. The result of this route they've taken is that the focus is on characters that are basically side characters in the grandscheme of things and the 5 EF have barely had any screentime or any character development at all. Now there's two hours left to do this big reveal in the finale and goin' by how this pilot season has gone so far I doubt they can do it justice. But I'm willing to see it out and see how it goes.
As for episode 6 as in and of itself:
I think it is my fav episode (episode 3 my previous fav) because acting was solid, the cast handled the scenes they were given well and were believable. But when taken in context to the books it's one flawed episode. Structurally, editing, narative to name a few. I can see people not liking this episode at all.
@@Chairay They did introduce padan fain in the first episode so i guess the dagger is there to stay, but it looks like they are going to skip horn of Valere storyline. I'm a bit more concerned about skipping characters. Three major charaters (elaida, elayne and min) are yet to be introduced. I'm guessing they are cutting elaida and giving her arc to liandrin but that will pose other challenges in the future
Only 8 episodes? So they cut almost done entire third out of book one and take parts from book 2 and they only have enough content for 8? I kind of miss the good old days in the 90s when a TV series would have 25 to 50 episodes per season...
Yep! First thing that comes to mind is Star Trek.
One question .. it wasn't better if they had handled the "Mat situation" leaving him behind still sick, under the care of the yellow Ajah, and then heal him off-screen?
So they would also have justified the change of appearance..
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Unless they can get the new guy to look like at least his brother, that would just be silly.
Also why he hates aessadai and asked for the fox medallion
Better question….. why is the door closing such an overwhelming obstacle when Mat stays behind….. can’t Moraine just open it again????
@@squiggs928 Only them knows, in the books it's not required the One Power to open the Ways..
This just seems stupid no offense lmao. Plenty of shows change actors it’s not a huge deal. Most ppl have enough common sense to where when someone calls the guy “Matt” they’re going to realize “oh, they must’ve changed actors”.
Been about a year since I read EotW for the firs time, but I remember Moiraine going in and healing mat "kind of" at the Inn with Master Gill. After that, he is functional, but still connected to the dagger. Not calling you out, but seems like the show is fairly spot on with this one. Moiraine comes and heals him a bit, and then later they do something to fully heal im...
Yes. She didn't heal him, but slowed the corruption and limited the daggers influence. Somewhat.
I liked how it looked too, though more sisters would've made sense for a full healing.
Maybe. Or they've just moved things forward. Mat stays in Tar Valon. He meets Elayne and whichever of her brothers are in the show. He does more shit in Tar Valon for most of the season with Egwene and Nynaeve and the supergirls. He actually goes to Falme with them instead of Rand.
Mat returns to TV with them and finds Thom. They head south together like in book 3 at the end of the season.
Don't they heal him three times? Second time is with multiple sisters in Fal Dara but even then the Connection isn't fully broken which is why Rand joins the Hunt for the Horn so he can help Mat.
Hopefully what you say turns out to be the truth, but that didn't just look like some ordinary healing. Just sayin'. There are too many red flags in the show not to be alarmed. So forgive me when I freak out a bit. For the love of gods I hope they don't just brush the dagger arc to the side.
I appreciate your linking Mat not going through the Ways and Barney leaving. I thought that was a strange choice for the plot, but this makes sense for why they did it. I hope Barney’s ok
Unfortunately, it was one of my least favorite episodes even though I love Moiraine and Siuan. I’m really conflicted about some of their choices regarding worldbuilding (the Ways, the Oath, the Eye) and well, the butterfly effect it could cause. Maybe it will be explained further along the way so other things make sense? I was taken out of the Oath scene - are we supposed to pretend other Aes Sedai in the room didn’t hear them? The whole point was to keep their mission and relationship low-key and it got really personal there. I get its emotional purpose for the viewers but it didn’t make sense in larger context. The ending at the Waygate was so awkward too. At this point the Dragon mystery starts to annoy me, it’s too heavy handed. I really try not to be nitpicking but these are not small things I can just ignore.
These three things were what I had a problem with as well, although I'm holding out hope the eye and ways can be rectified further. The extra oath really seems to conflict with the sanctity of the three oaths, and just felt off. End of the day, I'm enjoying it overall and I'm sure I'll get over it. When one is so invested in the original story it's nearly impossible for an adaptation to be objectively perfect.
What do you think requires explanation? The eye is basically irrelevant to the rest of the books so changing it seems like a good idea, the oath rod still binds oaths and the ways let you travel fast. It's not like they've flipped the table on this
@@feral_orc The are establishing here that they DO NOT trust the three oaths enough. So later on, there will not be a reason good enough to justify the Black Aja, because they have shown that they can just use the oath for such matters. And I think that is a HUGE deal.
There’s a whole story line about the oath rod in the books about the morality of making people swear more than the 3 oaths especially when they involve swearing to obey a specific person. It’s one of the ways egwene wins support
@@Murderdrones-Reagan but when the source material is so flagrantly changed for no purpose that only makes the story weaker there is a right to be upset
I’m sorry, I just can’t do the show any more.
I love the books so far and I just love them too much to respect the trash coming from the show.
In regards to the Aes Sedai emoting more, I figured that within the tower they are somewhat less stoic (But no less secretive) since they're only seen by other sisters. One of the things I noticed and was annoyed by in the books was how everyone "shows no expression" it always felt like a cop out to having characters written in any way that would hint at their intentions and feelings. More emotion is a welcome change. On Mat, I think it's obvious that the knife isn't done with him and that section of the story will be addressed later. He might dissapear and need to be fetched, or he might interface with Thom in order to bring him back into the story.
This was the first episode I thought was really good, I'm hopeful for the rest of the season and I can't wait to see how they change the story of EotW.
This is my favorite episode too, but I have likes the others a lot too.
I agree. I like that the Aes Sedai show more emotion and personality. It works better for visual medium. We want to see the actors perform. Not just be stoic all the time. Plus a lot of RJ's characters are described as "stoic", it would be so boring after a while.
From reading the books, I was happy with the Aes Sedai being very careful and not showing much emotions within the tower itself. Politics in there are horrible. The White tower is the one place were Aes Sedai should be more guarded. Maybe when showing interactions within the same Ajah, then yeah.. But the Ajahs are at odds with each other more often than not. Tar Valon is a political nightmare.. An "emoting" Ais Sedai in the tower would be deemed to be a fool by all the other Aes Sedai.
Indeed, one of the main plot for the Aes Sedai is when they have a schism.. It is clear that how Tower/Ajah politics have divided them. It is only then that you start to see more Aes Sedai to be more open with their emotions. So, yeah, stoic Aes Sedai make more sense at this point in the story than what the show has shown..
I love a lot of the scenes but I think as a book reader I am starting to get disappointed with how much things are diverging? I can't pin point it exactly but I think I will keep feeling the sense of disappointment until I see if the changes have a pay off that is worth it. Still love the show but I just can't shake it off completely at this time.
RE: The ter'angreal in Moiraine's room. My impression here is that this is TAR, not the physical world. Which would have been a great concept to introduce non-readers to at this point, but wasn't explicitly shown so it's hard to say.
Exactly. The room looks like a fishing hut. Clearly not Siuan's room.
Yeah, I definitely got a "not a real world" vibe from that.
So they enter TAR physically now.
I agree that they're in Tel'Aran'Rhiod. Moreover, I think the show may be setting up Siuan as a Dreamer. I'll be interested to see where that goes.
Agree this is TAR. Suian's room is shown later with the same ter'angreal in Moiraine's room.
Because of my experience with the books I feel some weird compulsion to finish the season but this show is pretty terrible.
As a book reader the divergence from the story is beginning to become a problem. There are some really good scenes that pull me in into the story only to be spat out shortly later by bits that don't fit in my head, at least.
I dissagree. If I wanted a carbon copy of the books, I’d just reread the books.
Something that didn’t come to me until watching this video: Will Liandrin become a composite for Elaida here? She seemed to fill the role of the Red sister who antagonizes the characters when they meet the Amyrlin.
Pretty sure Elaida, and Elayne just got cast for season 2
I don't think so, they're just making Liandrin a bigger character so that what happens next has a bigger impact.
Elaida will probably be a later adition, probably around the same time as Caemlyn is first introduced (I'm betting season 3).
Some people I discuss the show with have thought this. It wouldn't surprise me but I really hope not, because Liandrin should be black ajah and I thought it was an important part of Elaida's character that she wasn't intentionally evil, she was just incredibly arrogant and misguided. I've also seen the suggestion that Liandrin might replace Alviarin, which I would be more okay with.
I was thinking Alvarian or Elaida, but ya I'm pretty sure she's a composite
I'm sure they are gonna switch some roles around. Elaida obviously couldn't be cast yet because the Caemlyn Part was moved to Tar Valon in the Show and Elaida as Advisor to Morgase can't just be shown sitting around in Tar Valon. Also, Liandrin only gets introduced in the Second Book when the Party gets back to Shienar from the Eye of the World I think. I really don't have a Problem with that since some of the Characters were kind of superfluous in the books and died pretty quickly. Like for Example I think they are gonna somewhat simplify "Slayer" Biggest Changes I see coming are to Min, Elaine and Aviendha. I hope they don't remove Min since she is at the same time so important but also doesn't do that much personally.
"That's kind of a... rush..." Definitely an understatement. I completely agree. Well I understand the need for some changes to fit the medium, the entire show, especially Ep. 6, so far feels very rushed.
and they spent the majority of the last episode on mostly irrelevent side characters and still have the gall to say they need to cut book scenes for time
I feel that it would be better if the season has 12 episode, at least you can give more character development or more space for more characters... with 8 episode you have to rush a lot of things
@@fernandocabrera5258 I completely agree👍
They are rushing through some things they could be taking more time with and taking more time with stuff that they could move through more quickly. It's a pacing issue, and they seem to be inbetween right now. Hopefully its something they get a better handle on going forward.
Well, if they didn't spend the last 3 episodes on fanfic, they wouldn't have to rush the last couple of episodes.
I'm concerned with how little screen time the Emond's Field Five are getting. I get that Rosamund Pike is the best actress, but we need to be invested in the five that provide most of the view points of the rest of the series. (Minor Book-Spoilers follow) Another thing that really bothered me is that Moraine Travelled to meet Siuan Sanche. And Travelling is such a big plot point in the later books when it's rediscovered. And Siuan being in love with Moraine seemed off to me. Just because it's such a deal later in the books when she actually falls in love with Gareth. That she never thought she would ever be able to feel something like that.
I think it was tel’Aran’riod not travelling and they were heart sisters in the book. But it wasn’t delved into as the book is pretty PG when it comes to relationships
@@ShanShan-kw9hi
^ this.
Considering Daniel ENTIRELY missed the implication that they were in the dream, it's not surprising others would.
BUT that ALSO comes with implications. "Fully entering" the dream is not a good thing.
I disagree with John about the "love" between the two being off, as you say the books rely on some fairly heavy subtext rather than saying it out right... BUT I do have the feeling we're going to lose other romances to preserve this relationship. That is a disservice to the characters, but it's also "queerbaiting" and bi-erasure. Just because two women are lovers and DO love each other, doesn't mean they can't fall in love with another. They've been separated for most of 20 years.
It reminds me of "Buffy" writers essentially endorsing the idea that sexuality is a choice by "turning a character gay" rather than allowing the more complex reality to stand and trusting audiences to appreciate that complexity.
There is a big lack of urgency for their quest towards the end.
I have a question about the episode: why was Moiraine foward during Logain's trial? Like, they even said that Liandrin was in charge after the other green one died. Why was Moiraine in focus then? Was it just for the show because she's one of the main characters or there are other reasons that I don't know for not reading the books?
Also couldn’t figure that out, but I think she was more on trial for leaving for so long and not updating anyone on her doings? Though that feels like a stretch.
I think because she was involved with maintaining the shield on him when it all went down
I actually can’t recall, but it cooould be that she’s the senior Aes Sedai on-scene?
Your guess is as good as anyones. In the books, Logain's capture takes place offscreen. None of the main characters are anywhere near them, with the only exception being Rand, who spots him at a distance in an incredibly important city where he meets some pretty plot critical characters which didn't happen. So... yeah. Moraine had nothing to do whatsoever with Logain.
This isn’t a big spoiler, just regular dynamics of Aes Sedai in the tower but still don’t look if you wish not to know
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Aes Sedai can feel their relative power compared to each other and they tend to rank themselves based on power level and the power levels in that scene are Moiraine > Liandrin > Alanna. They stood that way because the only reason Liandrin was in charge instead of Moiraine is that Moiraine was there by accident because she needed healing. In any other situation Moiraine would have been in charge.
Spoilers for up to Early Book 12
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The oath rod thing made me think of Elaida wanting to add a 4th oath, to serve the Amyrlin. So it's really weird that they're having Siuan do it here, when it's something that's seen as fundamentally against the Aes Sedai ways.
Book Spoilers
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This greatly bothered me too. A 4th oath was a huge part of a few story lines for many of the later books.
Adding an oath was weird, but the oath was to not return until the Amyrlin allows it. Not to obey the Amyrlin.
This healing of Mat was the Caemlyn healing. Remember that everything happening in Tar Valon was supposed to be in Caemlyn. Moiraine gives him a partial healing there, but then after EoTW he gets the Amyrlin full healing treatment.
I missed your comment on when Siuan literally said "The Dark one is imprisoned in the Eye of the world" - this is so big deviation from the book. I mean, lots of knowledge was lost since the breaking of the world, but everyone in the third age knows where The Dark One and Forsaken are imprisoned. And it's not Eye of the World. It's a big change IMHO.
Given Moiraine's look in the final scene, I interpreted it as secretly planned between her and Mat that he would not be coming along. I'm thinking that in the next episode, Moiraine might be explaining why she's sure it's not him.
My theory is that she somehow felt that he can't channel when she healed him. The Aes Sedai could feel how strong Logain was when he was shielded, so it wouldn't be too far fetched.
I like that. It would be good to have a story element next episode addressing Mat's absence. And not with a throwaway line, please. LOL, one of Arnold's quips comes to mind: "He had to split."
There was something. Could come more from real world stuff than scenario...? Who knows.
Pike is usually more professional than that.
Was is ..contempt?
Anyway, Barney will be missed, and frankly, no one will be able to pull off filling his big boots.
I pity Donal.
@@niklaskoivunen1138 They can feel how strong logain is through the shield . There is no way for a woman to know that a man can channel or even if he is channeling at this point in the books.
@@Scuderia47 it's not they have been following the books very closely up until now. Besides, the dagger is kind of a special case, so it wouldn't be too implausible. Or maybe Moirane could taste his inability when she got the corruption thingy in her mouth lol.
Wait! Why is everyone assuming Moiraine "healed" him here. In the books (EOTW Chapter 41 and 42), she grabs her angreal and "cleanses" him temporarily, but says the full healing will need to come later. This very much feels exactly like that. She even says in the show that they need to be careful with him going forward, so I don't think he's fully broken the connection.
I agree. I think Mat is still under the influence of the dagger and stayed in Tar Valon because he wants it back.
@Anne Day I can see that. But then I don't know what the point of her explaining that if he touches it again he'll die is. I agree it's different, but very much feels that it isn't over yet - that he'll need more healing later.
Entering the ways is a massive change when you look into certain events that are going to happen, mainly in book 4. And I think if matt didn't get healed in this episode, then they could have left him in Tar Valon to get healed up until the point of season 2 where he could attempt to leave to meet a familiar face.
Good to see that I'm not the only one to do a double-take when Siuan's dad just gives her the fishing boat to head on up that river to Tar Valon. I mean, it's only halfway across the map. Young kid on her own, no training or weapons, I'm sure she'll be fine. What could possibly go wrong?
Related note: Is it just me or does Hollywood in general have a consistent problem showing young protagonists (or really, any character at all) being trained by older, more experienced characters? It isn't just Wheel of Time, I see it in a lot of tv shows and movies. I'm not asking for Rocky-esque training montages, but c'mon, give us something to help build our connections to the characters....
A kid can travel halfway across the map no problem and people have been interbreeding for millennia, yet there's still somehow a plethora of different races because we need to meet fake diversity quotas.
Im still 50/50 with the series direction. This is why the show should have been directed by someone familiar with Robert Jordan’s writing. And would someone please fix Loials ridiculous hair cut?! He’s one of the most important characters from the books and he looks like he’s got a cheesy perm.
Rafe is a book fan
@@hunterkat doesn't mean he understands the story.
@@hunterkat Is he? Why? Because he said so on Twitter and buttered the fanbase up a few times? Absolutely no fan would adapt these books in this manner. No genuine fan would go out of their way to needlessly deviate from the books they claim to love at every turn. Him acting like a superfan online is all just marketing to soften up fans and make us see him as "one of us" so that we're less critical... and the sad thing is that, for many people, it worked.
@@lbds9555 At some point you seem to have convinced yourself that projecting the most dissatisfaction and outrage meant you were a True and Loyal Fan. The attitude is super old at this point, we get it. Could you stop it with the I'm More Fan Than Thou attitude and, I don't know, say something else that at least attempts to speak to the specifics in the video?
I like Loial’s hair. It reminds me of autumn leaves on a windy day.
My only issue, and this may come across wrong, is the consistent addition of unnecessary content at the expense of book content. Whether it was the Stepin episode and his whole relationship with his Sister and the fallout of the bond or Moraine and Siuan sex scene. Sure, all of the above are, in some way, implied in the books but wasn’t that enough? How does it help the story at the cost of, say, Elias? Maybe to non-book fans this all makes sense but for me it’s increasingly making me concerned with how much content they’ll cut just to include throw away plot points.
Everything about this show is great for me except the storyline so far but as you say, I’ll wait till the end to truly make up my mind.
I can see why we got no Elyas in season 1 because new watchers already have many characters they need to know. But the showrunner promised two characters that are loved by the fans and were omissed from book 1 in season 2 - so there is a good chance that Elyas is one of them.
Honestly i agree, while it sets up some explanation for some things like the warder bond that will be relevant later in the series, it sacrifices character introducations and important plot points, as well as much needed time with the main characters. If i hadnt read the books i doubt i would feel much of anything for rand or perrin, or egwene. So far i have enjoyed the show, but im not sure if thats just because ive been looking at it from a book reader's perspective.
@@f.carasind4188 >showrunner promised two characters...omissed from book 1
Don't you think he was referring to Min and Elayne?
@@dingdongism No, Min is in the next episode. And yes I think the other one is Elayne.
@@f.carasind4188 Probably is Elayne and Elaida
The whole pillow friends/lovers thing is weird in the books, but both Moiraine and Suian wind up with men in the end and talk about how they both dreamed of finding husbands as younguns. RJ seemed to think that girls who are straight just swing both ways when they're young, IDK if that's normal or not. So, they're swinging another way here, no surprise I guess.
I don't think novices have access to boys around, so under the immence stress of work and studdies things might just happen. That's how I took it. Then they figure out if they like it or not and move on
He has a ton of time to shine dw
I wasn't fond of the way gate with the reveal a while back and I dislike it moreso now since it seems the power is required to use them. Like their existence in that manner is pretty useless to the ogier who grow them and the general traveller, literally only useful to aes sedai. Also didn't like the travelling until I realised it was a ter angreal by looking at the bonus content
I also hate that the Way Gate is such a huge structure in the middle of a field. It takes so much away from Ogier lore that it’s a hidden gate in a forest and few people know about them. It’s just bad writing. God!
They might also accept a key if you have one,with no channeling required. Book!Moirain did force open a Waygate in an emergency back in book 1, so all options are still possible.
I dislike Way gate requiring channeling as well but yeah It was pretty clear to me that thing Moiraine used to meet with Siuan was a Ter'angreal so I was alright with it.
@@gokbay3057 the ter'angreal went right over my head. my reaction was "da f#$k?" Also was the place where they met the amylin place?? I thought it was a hut that looked like Siuan's childhood home. there was really no need to have travel in that circumstance when they could have just had a bath meeting.
@@damp2269 I'm thinking it was Tel'aran'rhiod (I probably did not put the apostrophes in the correct places but whatever)
Because otherwise it is either a random House or she had it rebuilt and has the same Ter'angreal. So Siuan probably has some other form of entering the World of Dreams or possibly it was her regular dream and the thing allows Moiraine to enter it.
So much hype for this episode and that's it? At first I understand why the wanted to introduce the white tower early but come on, the main characters are the Aes Sedai and not the EF5 at this point.
I really would like liked some backhanded barb in that whole trial/backing up the reds thing.
"Yes mother, if we hadn't gentled Loghain he would have killed us all, the Reds were not able to control him" or something of the like.