The Snyder Cut and the Power of Fandoms
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
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Sources / Further Reading:
Is Releasing The Snyder Cut a Victory for Toxic Fandoms? by Joanna Robinson - bit.ly/3c6Vs7k
Why Releasing The 'Justice League' Snyder Cut Sets a Dangerous Precedent by Drew Taylor - bit.ly/314tJxT
What Hath The Snyder Cut Released? by Abraham Riesman - bit.ly/3tLojE4
Why Does the DCEU Have Such a Toxic Fanbase? by Kayleigh Donaldson - bit.ly/3saNXlu
Would Releasing the Snyder Cut Just Be Rewarding Bad Behavior? by J.M. Carter - bit.ly/3vRixmo
Production History of Justice League - bit.ly/2NEJgkG
Kneel Before Zack by Rob Harvilla - bit.ly/2P0Kibk
Zack Snyder's $20M-Plus 'Justice League' Cut Plans Revealed by Borys Kit - bit.ly/3tKk0c9
Blade Runner: From Workprint to Final Cut - bit.ly/3f3Y73v
Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut - Restoring the Vision - bit.ly/3vSo2Ry
Original Superman II Gets Revived By Fans by Whitney Pastorek - bit.ly/3983P0B
Fan Campaign to Get Donner Cut Released - bit.ly/3f42Bah
Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut Production History - bit.ly/3vR0qg7
How Sherlock Holmes Changed the World by Jennifer Keishin Armstrong - bbc.in/313XJtA
Trekkies March in the Streets to Save TOS - bit.ly/3cb2EiU
16 Times Fans Saved TV Shows From Cancellation by Anjelica Oswald - bit.ly/3c9h3Md
Music:
Lex Villena - "Origins" - bit.ly/3rbWHXc
Chris Zabriskie - "CGI Snake" - chriszabriskie...
Lex Villena - "11" - bit.ly/3r6P7Nj
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As a Community fan, this gives me hope for #sixseasonsandamovie
I'm with ya🤝🤝
This. Yes.
As much as I'd really like the Community movie (amazing show btw), I think it's different because it's not like we're boycotting it, like with the Justice League, Star Wars, Game of Thrones, or other fandoms. I'm sure the movie will come but if it doesn't, then it doesn't. It's just what happens after the show's ended and everyone involved in the show are now doing their own thing.
@@andywong9453 For all the stuff Netflix is releasing, this would be a warm welcome for the fans
@@ashokaayar760 It most certainly will be
Actually it was AT&T ( WB parent company) that gave Snyder a platform to release his film. AT&T didn't even care what WB thought.
which is good, because WB keeps making the most baffling businesses choices.
@@sunsetman22 WB cut films and directors visions since Superman 2. He’ll gremlins had a whole half hour cut because WB didn’t like it.
Nothing knew here sadly but at least I didn’t have to wait decades like for Superman 2
Cuz Money
Money still goes to the same place...
Nolan also helped pushed the snydercut to be made and even warned snyder not to watch whedon's cut
Great stuff. I found it weird that people treated the #ReleasetheSnyderCut as a unique phenomenon. That felt ahistorical, for reasons you mentioned.
It is odd but I guess everything is knew in the age of fact less claims.
You would think with the internet people would use it
The scales of the reshoot are unique.
Well....hold on, has there ever been a director that beats/overrides the studio?
@@kassandra03 Not compared to Solo, a film that could have recoupped its investment if not for Disneyfilm's wholesale reshoots.
I hope there’s some Victorian think pieces like “What has the Conan Doyle cut wrought?” “Why bringing back Holmes will destroy the medium”
It was actually the opposite with Arthur Conan Doyle and Sherlock Holmes. Doyle famously came to hate Sherlock Holmes, and wrote the character’s famous plunge off Reichenbach Falls in 1883 to kill him off permanently. Fans of Sherlock Homes wrote angry letters to The Strand Magazine (which had been running the Holmes stories), and 20,000 readers cancelled their subscriptions in protest to Sherlock’s death. Doyle also received letters urging him to bring back Sherlock, and people in London were so upset that it’s believed they wore black armbands as a sign of mourning for the character. After eight years, Doyle finally caved and began writing more Sherlock Holmes content in 1901.
I’m surprised he didn’t mention Mulan 2020. Only instance I can think of where fans didn’t get what they protested for.
Funnily the scenes that would have made the film more authentic to the original story were shot and even in a cut of the film... makes you think what Disney is doing after hearing the horror stories from WB
@@Thecatdrums3 Probably in an attempt to save face
The movie cancelled?
There are more problem. From chinese perspective, it faked Chinese culture, the plot is stupid, the battle scene is horrible, the moral messages are twisted from the original cartoon.
Fans don't want the live action remakes
Studios caving in to fan backlash is really a double edged sword. On the one hand we got ZSJL which did Snyder justice. On the other hand, it gave us The Rise of Skywalker.
But they later gave us the Mandalorian season 2 finale. The sequel trilogy was already screwed when Kennedy gave full creative direction of the film to Rian Johnson instead of creating a plan for the trilogy and having the filmmakers abide by it while still having enough freedom to make their Star Wars movie. The reason why the Mandalorian works and feels more like Star Wars than most of the other things we’ve seen Disney make is because of the people working on it, specifically Dave Filoni who was George Lucas’s right hand man and “padawan” while being creative director on the Clone Wars cartoon.
So the lesson for both is to have faith in the story you're making and not switch courses half way through.
Fun fact- both of those movies were co-written by the same person.
The end of the Sequel Trilogy was doomed from the start.
In no way, shape, or form, did fandom demand something like Rise of Skywalker
Whether you love superhero movies or not, there's a clear passion coming from you man! Great work as always!
Still waiting for the 9 hour version of Greed
#releasethevonstroheimcut
As much as I will defend the existence of Twitter, one of the downsides is that platforms like it (as well as Instagram and a few others) is that it's too easy to write directly to artists and celebrities to harass them.
I will agree that this shouldn't be used for petty things. There's important stuff the fans call for, like correct representation of minorities or casting trans people for trans roles. The Snyder cut has proven AFTER THE FACT that his vision holds more merit and character development than the Whedon cut, but there was defintely and element of blind faith that wouldn't necessarily have worked in other situations.
Celebrities and companies should be accountable for their fame and prevalence. They don't live on another planet for us to gawk at them. They're the ones peddling their product to us, whether it be their likeness, or their crappy product/service.
"one of the downsides is that platforms like it (as well as Instagram and a few others) is that it's too easy to write directly to artists and celebrities to harass them."
No no that's a positive.
The fans are as much of a curse as they are of a blessing
Fandoms be like
Fandom: take our money
Studio: ok
Fandom: we won! We broke the system!
No. It's more like.
Fandom: We'll give you money to make something that we'll enjoy
Studio: How about we make something no one will enjoy? Give us your money, we're entitled to it because we don't respect you.
Fandom: We'll give you money to make something that we'll enjoy
Studio: We'll get right on that.
@@choo_choo_ Yeah entertainment should entertain
I think in the future studio would let fandom write their own movies, and cast their own actors
@@choo_choo_
Studio: Here's this thing you like.
Fandom: NUH UH YOU CHANGE TOO MUCH WE NO LIKEY THAT.
Studio: Okay, here's this same thing, but now with less human teeth and bigger googly eyes.
Fandom: WE LOVE YOU FOREVAH PLEASE TAKE UP AND SHUT MY MONEY.
@@commandercaptain4664 Bro I have no idea what this is supposed to be in reference to. Sonic?
While I agree that fans have always been like this, I do think that the dynamic has changed. When I first got really into fandom as a child, it felt like this really underground thing. Like, if you knew where to look you could find whole forum/mail list/conventions dedicated to the stuff but the average person didn't know that fandoms existed outside of maybe Trekkies. And fans did have a tendency to demand certain plot lines or changes from creators, but at least in my circles it was almost treated like trying to shout to the heavens to get god to fix something. Creators were treated like these larger than life figures that one could only dream to get the attention of if hundreds or thousands of fans rallied together. And most creators/actors seemed fairly unaware of what went on in fandom space besides what fans might share with them at conventions.
However, now that any Joe Schmoe can get in contact with their favorite creators and actors at any time, it seems to me like fandom has gotten much more demanding. Not only are they asking for directors cuts, they're asking for rewritten story lines, recast characters, redone costumes, etc. I don't think that fans asking for these things is new, but I do think that the degree of nitpicking and entitlement is increasing as fans meticulously rewatch media on 4K screens and listen to youtube channels and podcasts dedicated to ripping films apart for any perceived faults. The question to me isn't so much will fans start making these campaigns tho, it's if film studios will be more willing to give in to said complaints after the release of the snyder cut.
I agree. I've been a lifelong Star Wars fan since the 80s, and it's genuinely distressing to me seeing the fandom get more and more toxic over the years. And yes, to a certain extent that's a side effect of the franchise's growing popularity and reach, but it's still concerning.
I think it might be concerning that the Snyder fans won't stop until they get 2 more movies that haven't been made.
@@riIeywilson why would you be concerned about wb making 2 movies?
@@del46_60 I wouldn't mind two more movies, I liked Snyder's JL. I'm just concerned about fan entitlement. Plenty of people threatened and bullied WB into releasing the Snyder Cut, and they plan on doing it until all five movies are made. I just don't dig the toxic behavior. I've already seen a campaign where they say, "we bullied WB, let's do it again."
@@riIeywilson Wb isn't a person. They screwed up and lied to the fans about the movie saying its Zack's movie. Fans only demanded the movie that was supposed to be released in 2017.
Didn't quarantine conditions have a role in all this too? If WB could move on to a new blockbuster and make another billion dollars at the box office, would they have bothered with the Snyder Cut?
Fans get what they want, the studio gets what they want (money), I really can't see how some people are able to twist this into a bad thing.
Because to some people, fans are unwashed plebs, fit only to have their money taken from them.
depends. some fans take things too far and some of the stuff they want is best relegated to fan fiction. it happens often when some get what they want and still aren't satisfied because it doesn't live up to expectations or is word for word what they wanted.
You’re forgetting about the creators.
Too bad HBO MAX is a garbage streaming service.
It's not the selection, it's just impossible to use
Facts! Awful interface and the video quality ain’t good
i quote it before and i quote it now.
-"Im not part of any culture, because every culture is destined to self destruction"
Mark Twain.
a wise man!
What an edgelord.
The best thing this fandom has done is not only to fight for a artists freedom, but also campaign for mental health and raise half a million for suicide prevention. #ForAutumn
Urusei Yatsura: Beautiful Dreamer faced backlash among fans when it was originally released which led to director Mamoru Oshii into getting fired from the series and he was having difficult time finding work in the late 80s. The movie was not well loved by fans because of its artistic and experimental story and that it didn't relied on fan service. Ironically Beautiful Dreamer was later considered to be the best Urusei Yatsura movie
No matter your opinion of the movement, you can't deny the giant leap in quality between the 2 versions.
Big** leap lol
Can't deny the difference**
It's all visual...Storywise it's total garbage
“I paid for X, you delivered Y. I call customer service to complain; either I end up with a refund or a fixed product”, AKA demand and supply.
This is not a group of people asking “great artists” to make the art they want, if any these are consumers asking their service providers for the product/service they want.
That’s it, that’s all.
PS. Oh and don’t forget to drink water and wash your hands.
The recent trend in meta-textuality in films is fascinating to me. I hate it but I love it at the same time. It feels like a cheap trick, but it works on me. Self awareness in media is satisfying but it doesn't last, I think.
Fandoms are a double edged sword
They can enact good change against corporate greed, or they can harass genuine creators until they break their will
I think it says a lot about our world when people will come together and fight for a movie to be made, but not come together to fight properly for human rights...
And when said human rights are blatantly encouraged by a studio, and the resulting "backlash" amounts to jack squat because studios belong to congloms that are too big to boycott.
I find it really cool that any money donated from fans for Snydercut ads, half went to charity for suicide prevention
It's pretty depressing to see how much effort people put into persuading change in fictional media as opposed to real world issues.
If only this was the wake up call to help people release we hold the power
Have you not seen the world for the past year and how many protests their has been. Business works as supply and demand if there is a loud enough demand the business will supply it. The same can't be said for politics
@@thenorsepioneer7311 I notice that most activism for real world issues tend to trend for no more than 2 weeks and is forgotten in favor of whatever the next thing going on is. Fandom bickering can go on for years tho.
We have seen people protesting to real world problem. It's called: RIOT
Also pandemic is going on, so some people has no choise, but staying home and whine and whine. At least no properties got destroyed
Don't get why you have such a negative tone about a light topic
Great video, but I can't help but feel like you missed out on some context on one bit. Specifically with John Campea's quote about the movie. For years he has been talking about how an oven ready, final cut of the movie DID NOT exist, but a working cut similar to Zack's vision did, somewhere. He ended up being proven right to the letter in that regard, but you take him out of years of context for just another voice in a sea of opinions
You’ve got me wondering if a painter has went back and changed their painting due to the people’s response to it.
Probably not, unless the patron paid this artist to butcher their own creation
John singer Sargent. Went back and repainted a dress strap on his painting Madam X because of public backlash. Apparently the strapless dress was to scandalous. It not uncommon as you would think.
We can't forget the fan response to the cancellation of "Farscape". The response to it was a phenomenon rivaling that of several other shows like "Firefly" or even the original "Star Trek".
and we didn't even get a revival despite that. it was a good Australian Sci-fi, something you rarely get to see made.
Exactly what "Dangerous precident" would WB set?
Making the fans happy?
Making money, probably. Money is the root of all evil; good thing WB hates making it so much!
It's identity politics and Marvel fanatics, both who came up with that.
emboldening the shitty fans to send death threats and act like assholes to get what they want
I think the fact that WB fucked over Znyder’s vision after he had to leave the project following the suicide of his daughter and then hired an abusive asshole to finish the project, as well as the fact that they massively downplayed the storylines of the only characters that were played by black and LGBT actors, makes this more than just an “artistic expression” thing.
@@hayblade So ur going to ignore and punish fans becasue a the sins of a few assholes?
Right lmao
That is the excuse they will always go for
Sucks that you only talked about the Toxic side of the SnyderCut fandom and not the side that literally raised over half a million dollars for suicide prevention.
If you prick fans, do they not bleed? If you tickle fans, do they not laugh? If you poison fans, do they not die? And if you wrong fans, shall they not revenge?
Also the beauty of the little animations-so Saul Bass satisfying!
i do agree that sometimes, technical and production-related problems can exist, but it's saddening that art creators feel the need to get into a clash with the fandom over his artistic choices. it's like asking davinci to make a new mona lisa with a different facial expression because many people visiting the louvre complained about its ambiguity.
this could have also been the game company Naughty Dog with its sequel to the last of us, the story was something that was never done in the entire industry, bold and real. but if enough backlash is there, what would happen to the whole game? would people be satisfied? would people like me who loved the brutal original story be disappointed? it's such a red flag that the community has such power...
I also find it fascinating that Josh Wedon’s Firefly, which sparked what I would consider the previous record for the most successful fan campaign of all time, getting an entire movie budget out of it, is a perfect mirror to the Snydercut, except this time Wedon is a big part of WHY fans are upset, yet this also resulted in a pretty huge budgetary win for the original artsist. Wild.
Me, remembering how I wanted the Promised Neverland anime to have an anime-original ending that wasn’t rushed because the creators of the original manga was cancelled early: Oh god, am I one of *those* fans?
its sucked that they slashed the anime adaptation but at this point you kinda have to accept it because its not the first time an anime adaptation completly ignore the narrative from the manga (tokyo ghoul, tower of highschool, guilty crown, akage no kill, and so on) and theres only a few that have a complete faithfull adaptation like jojos, or attack on titans, hell even my hero academia. And even if it ddin't they will eventually have one in a reboot like full metal alchemist or shaman king. So yeah its suck but is not the end of the world, and time will tell if they ended up getting the original source material justice.
Tell me about. I just got into The Dark Crystal series on Netflix.
I was on both sides of this movement. Before I didn't think the Snyder cut existed or it was going to be any good, then I heard it was good but I was still skeptical so I gave the Snyder cut chance, saw it, and it converted me. Now I'm on the other side wanting more. #RestoreTheSnyderVerse.
people are forgetting about the ayer cut of suicide squad, warner bros forced ayer to make cuts and change the tone of the movie drastically. #releaseTheAyerCut
Next time, try not coming to any conclusions without sufficient facts.
Kids sfuff
can’t believe i just waited a month for a video about fucking justice league
#RESTORETHESNYDERVERSE
Fascinating.
That’s all I can say. I never saw any negative content from the movement, not till recently, so, to me, it always seemed like all the derogatory talk was going to the movement, which was rather naive of me. Like anything else, you will always have those idiots who throw tantrums and even make death threats over something like this. The fact is, those that do only give their cause a bad name, though, they probably think they’re the reason the movement won when the truth is, they did so despite of them.
The movement was also about JUSTICE for some of the Cast and crew too. The story is much deeper than just Zack Snyder's movie
Release Dersu Uzula on Criterion Blu-ray!
how can you not mention the fact that these "fans" also raised a lot of money for mental health awareness and suicide prevention?
bEcAuSe tHe fAnS aRe tOxiC bRo
Boohoo
@@Bizarro69 So raising money for a good cause is a warrant for a "boohoo" now? Huh...
@@choo_choo_ Correct.
I don't know why you think that excuses the rest of your shitty behavior, LOL, in fact bragging about it and expecting headpats for it just exposes how full of shit y'all still are. You didn't do it out of the goodness of your hearts, but as a shallow publicity stunt. You're no better than any corporation that tweets out about social issues yet is doing horrible things behind the scenes; i.e. you're "virtue signaling" just as much as them :^)
I've lived through this shit with GamerGate, so save it. Thanks for the money, but you're still assholes 🤷♂️
"it doesnt exist" dudes dont wanna hear anything positive about something they hate. "toxic" is the only thing that exist in their mind
I don't know if you sneaked out the theory of the masses influencing big decisions when they actually don't know what they are asking/complaining about or if it was only a great video. Either ways, chapeau!
"Fan" is short for fanatic.
Please tell "fans" something this simple and immutable. Also tell them that "anime = cartoon".
Fans think they scored a great victory while in reality Warner Bros just made a few millions by lightly remaking a four year old movie
That is the WB way. Surprisingly they haven’t released those extended gremlins cuts they have
Fans got the movie didn't they? What are you crying about?
It's almost as if it that was the whole point of an industry.
You think WB gained a couple mill in subscriptions?
Or did people do the free trial and cancel or stream it?
Fans got their closure, Snyder got his closure, WB got their money. They may learn to trust their directors more going forward, or they may not. None of this would have happened if WB didn't see financial potential in it, it's not charity. I doubt the fans expected to get the cut for free, it's how things work and at least they got their cut, as opposed to thousands of other passionate movements that get nothing.
This not only applies to film. ‘Backlash’, social media and ‘movements’ are becoming the norm for every facet of life - no matter the size of the grievance.
I see no provided examples of when fans' backlash just fizzling out, and that happens plenty more than these rare cases
Family guy was brought back more than once by fans :)
Futurama too, no?
If "college hopheads watching reruns on Cartoon Network" count as "fans".
dude, the amount of TOXIC FANS who attack Zack and his fandom is WAY MUCH BIGGER, it's nasty, they mock his daughter suicide, while the fanbase along with zack also raise a lot of money for mental health awareness and suicide prevention, but for some reason it never mentioned by you people youtuvers and stuff, because oh right, you only see this movement from outside, with prejudice from mainstream media and the opposed fanbases, we move by our own yet they still barking nonsense
One of my favorite things: how Hideaki Anno included the death threats and threatening letters directly into "End of Evangelion."
I mean technically they were re-written and there's really a bit of both, some of them are actually letters saying how much they were inspired by the show. It's more nuanced is what I'm saying.
#releasetheayercut #releasethetrankcut
Imo
Whedon too short
Snyder too long
Release the 3hr cut!
Now if only we could get Forsyth's cut of Being Human that could be something.....
Being Human movie is any good?
@@cinnamon4605 I'm sure it has its moments, as it stands it seems a mess. After poor test screenings The studio demanded Forsyth cut 40 minutes, add a narration and a happy ending. I haven't been able to see it yet unfortunately but considering the talent involved the full cut could very well be a be mini masterpiece.
@@alexthecritical8800 did loved all of Bill Forsyth's films.. this one failed to lure me. Still left unwatched.
@@cinnamon4605 Thats a shame it seems like such an intersting concept to me, but I could see why some would shy away from it.
@@alexthecritical8800 will give a try to watch. ✌🏻
They are going to re-do-re-cut the entire Star Wars sequel trilogy at some point, aren't they?
I doubt there'll be massive reshoots, but Star Wars has been re-editing and retconning itself since 1981, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are "Special Editions" at some point that clean up some of the continuity and wobbly plot points across the trilogy.
The fans who think Disney is going to de-canonize the sequels are just delusional, tho.
@@jasonblalock4429 I don't think Star Wars will get anything like this, unfortunately.
1. The Snyder Cut finished principle photography. The main thing that kept it from being in a releasable state was post-production stuff and some small reshoots. This isn't even like the Colin Trevarrow script of Episode 9 because that was never shot.
2. Carrie Fisher is unfortunately no longer with us, so we're missing a vital actress for any Sequel Trilogy do-over. Snyder was able to get all the original actors for Justice League back to film any reshoots he wanted.
That being said, I did hear rumors that there were alternate cuts of Rise of Skywalker, including one that Lucas himself did, and I'm curious to watch those.
@@gameragodzilla That‘s a completely different scenario though, quite the opposite realy: For better or worse, Rian Johnson made the film he wanted to make. The negative response probably lead to some of the retcons in TROS. Remaking TLJ or bringing in George Lucas to re-edit TROS would be the equivalent to Joss Whedon‘s cut. Ultimately that‘s the problem with these types of fan movements: In the case of Snyder they argue for artistic integrity, in the case of Johnson they argue against it, simply because it wasn‘t the kind of movie they wanted. You can’t really have it both ways. Plus, the latter is problematic because where do you draw the line? If you asked Star Wars fans back in 2002 a majority of them might have voted in favor of dropping the prequels from the official canon. Not so much anymore. I‘m glad Snyder got to release the version of the film he was originally hired to direct. But I doubt most of the people responsible for making it happen would raise their voice in favor of a #JohnsonCut, yet they’d have to if they‘re serious about their reasoning.
@@ft4709 I wasn't talking about The Last Jedi, I was more referring to George Lucas's version of the Sequel Trilogy.
0:40 right there with you man
Finally more of my people
"Release them all'. The 3 disc/3 version DVD Box set of Gilliam's 'Brazil' - is a case in point. Having been continuously verbally abused in comments sections for just wanting to see ZSJL - leads me to believe that the 'anti snyder cut' bunch - were paid to throw shade - on the internet - by those that didn't want it released. Their levels of venom and insistence - were frankly confusing. First it was: 'The Snyder Cut doesn't exist' - then when it was found out that it did exist - it was: "It will never be released'. Also - according to them - Snyder was the 'biggest most talentless hack' that had ever existed. The events of the last week have proved them all wrong on all counts. But AT&T should wait a year until Jame's Gunn's Suicide Squad does its thing - before releasing an Ayer cut on HBO Max. ZSJL - is unprecidentedly popular - and I'm sure many people would be interested in seeing an alternate 'Mulitverse' version of SS. Also want to see a Trank cut of FF4 - but I'm sure that Marvel on its current path into its next Phases - doesn't want anyone to see it. Over the last year with pandemics shutting down production everywhere - hollywood missed a real opportunity in opening up its own archives and producing and reediting alternate cuts of its own existing properties - a la Godfather III.
It can still happen. HBO Max made history with attention and subscriptions for an existing film. With so many streamers desperate for attention, this is something Netflix, Amazon and Apple can't do, but Paramount Plus, Peacock and Hulu can, and it's cheaper and easier than finding and making new content.
Interesting how bowing to the savages who spent weeks burning down cities during the "Summer of Love" a few years ago didn't garner one headline like, "Isn't this rewarding bad behavior?". Also interesting how all the naysayers who said The Snyder Cut didn't exist, or that Henry Cavill was not coming back to play Superman EVER AGAIN and to GET OVER IT, still have audiences. Similarly to the mainstream (dinosaur) media who do nothing but lie. There IS a toxic fandom. But it's not the ones who knew what the (now former) execs at WB tried to do to Zach Snyder's career, by deliberately ruining every movie he produced for the DCEU, and simply wanted to give the man, the artist, the ability to tell the story he shot... it is the people who earn piles of cash from RUclips hating everything that comes out now, for entirely made up reasons or what they perceive to be personal and political attacks on them, just to keep the grift going off the cult they've constructed out of the disaffected, disillusioned children who once loved all of these properties, but who can no longer suspend disbelief. These so-called "fans" are angry because it's finally dawned on them, they can't go back to Never Never Land.
The Snyder cut didn't exist until they made it.
Like the Snyder cut is going to suddenly make the movie any better..
😂😂😂😂
You'd be surprised how much it does actually improves it. I can understand if you're not interested like I was but, I'll tell you right now it does change the movie entirely for the better.
lmfaooo you gotta be living under a rock
@@akiman9368 The bar is really low when a movie is considered good by comparing it with a poorly edited and reshot version that wasn't supposed to be made in the first place.
@@cormano64 Im sorry but what do you mean by wasn't supposed to be made. The one released in theaters years back wasn't what it was supposed to be, it was only made that way because Zach himself left the project to deal with something in his life. You can have your opinions on this movie for sure but to call it the version that "wasn't supposed to be made" is kinda...well..flat out incorrect.
Highlander went through this with the Renegade Cut of Highlander 2.
Yes! Even had new footage shot for it.
Reminds me of misery by stevan king
Excellent motion graphics sir.
One thing worth arguing: I dont think Snyder "finished thr film he was hired to make". That's not entirely true, cause he would have to find a way to deliver a two hour cut for a theatrical release. He could only deliver a four hour - and let's be honest, almost raw - cut, because of this movement and the will of HBO max to gather signatures.
Up until recently, it was going to be a series of 40 minute episodes so HBO Max could have weekly released content to rival Disney Plus. I honestly think that's why it's 4hrs (so they could have 6 episodes). It should be cut down to about 3hrs. But too late WB changed their mind from the series idea as it would mean having to renegotiate contract terms and pay deals with the talent, because they signed a Movie deal not a TV Series one. But too late to edit the film any more.
Horrendous family tragedy aside, there's absolutely no way Snyder would've gained enough favor from Waners to grant him additional time and $70M to finish his initial film, especially given the fact that Warners shortchanged him once before and turned him into a "director's cut" whipping boy. He had to go to AT&T to present the hindsight of Whedon's version for them to give him the means to encourage HBO Max's shareholders. That's why what was released isn't a true "Snyder cut", but more like "Justice League: Special Edition".
I really loved the Snyder Cut ♥️
8:00 Hey it’s Chuck fandom representation!
10:42 also very true.
Man, I love the visual design of your videos so much. BTW, speaking of Star Trek, Robert Wise got to do this in the early 2000s, when he came back to re-edit Star Trek The Motion Picture for DVD. Which had an infamously rushed post-production and was never the movie he wanted it to be. The result was much better, easily the definitive version of the film. (Unfortunately, Paramount went cheap and only mastered it in SD, so it is *only* available on a long out-of-print DVD and may never be rereleased. Which sucks.)
Well..... guess what, now we have his vision in HD!
@@NobleRaider2747 Yep, and it looks amazing. :-D
#LetsGoBackInTimeAndSaveFireFly
These videos is underrated AF
About the Power of Fandoms, there is an important video done by Jacob Geller about Shadow of the Colossus - ruclips.net/video/jQNeYbBiCKw/видео.html
The game certainly has a cult following and is omnious in tone, but ever since it's release about 2 decades ago, fans have never stop digging around the files of all public and non public versions of the game, to look for one extra secret that could be lost - and in a way, they were right.
Framing zack as jesus is mostly a joke lol, They do that with all the directirs, also i don't like how you are addresing fans as a cult.
And yes, there are toxic fans but they are a loud minority that don't stand for the majority. A lot of the fans fought for mental health awareness and raised half a million dollars too.
You: Becouse I have approximately zero Interest in Superhero - Movies
Me: Instant Like
mass effect music in the background, sing of a cultured man
The Nebula subscription does not work. I can only subscribe to Curiosity under that link.
Extremely well-executed content. I really appreciate the amount of time you put into your craft. New Sub for sure.
Love learning more about film history from your channel bro! Keep it up 💪🏽
Preferred the originally released Midsommer to the directors cut. Curious about seeing Lynch’s cut of Dune someday though.
what happened to that video you made a while back about summer and summer movies, the one that was basically a big montage of of you and your friends having fun. that video was aweaome
So glad the Snyder fans got their wish...now where's the Lord and Miller cut of SOLO? #ReleaseTheLord&MillerCut
The whole topic for me is luke warm. And Frankly, the original JLA was terrible, and Snyders cut was even worse. Keep that man away from DC content.
10:14-Just a quick thought: isn’t that sense of irony kind of the American Way? So many of us hate our jobs and have misgivings about our homes and religions and social circles, and yet, there we are stuck to each other...I can’t believe I’m thinking of Harlan Ellison’s _Glass Teat_ this morning, but that’s kinda like what we got: this sucks, but we suck it anyway for...something...
The Snyder cut and the Sonic redesign is proof that bullying hollywood studios works
Same way "journalists" and others have bullied studios and creators.
@@CinemaSeven we still have journalists?
Any artist worth one's weight in conviction would never want a fandom. Fandoms, the flipside of the same cancellation coin, are nothing but armchair wannabe stockholders interested only in product, which studios are scrambling to oblige for the deluded sake of filling their FOMO coffers - it's turning into its own subgenre of retcons-for-the-sake-of-profit. "Screw up" a movie? Just reshoot and rerelease it again and again until the money runs dry. Theaters were long since complaining about the advent of director's cuts undermining their industry.
This is great video
Personally studios listening to the fans is a double edged sword
Sometimes it can work towards its advantage
But unfortunately catering to fans can also ruin the artistic integrity of a film or a tv show if done wrong
As for the snyderverse cult I agree this is nothing new
The same thing happened when sonic 4 was released and people criticized it for having modern sonic instead of classic sonic
As well as multiple other issues compared to the genesis trilogy (even though the dimps developed sonic games may have always been designed to be different from the genesis games)
While sonic 4 did get an episode 2 regardless of a failed boycott (where people prompted to buy sonic 1 instead of sonic 4 on launch day) episode three was canceled
And then sonic mania was announced which people labeled as true sonic 4
Honestly while I still appreciate sonic mania for what it is I wouldn’t go as far to say it’s the real sonic 4 as sonic mania relied on memberberries (well executed but it’s still there)
So sonic mania is another example of fan backlash causing the studio to apologize and give them what they want
Ghostbusters afterlife is another example but then again everybody knows about the film that shall not be named from 2016
While I enjoyed ghostbusters afterlife for being a solid goodbye to the world of the ghostbusters I do feel that there are moments where they pushed the memberberries a bit too much
I think the best thing people can do is to move on from a franchise if the direction is not working for them and find more original or independent franchises
Another example is when people complained about the bob camp era of ren and stimpy which prompted spike tv to bring John k back to do another ren and stimpy series in 2003
It was actually worse than the bob camp era
Despite being another series to cater to the fans it was also the embodiment of everything wrong with John k as an artist
This is about money, there was money to be made and WB jumped on the opportunity. Customers get what they want one way or another or the market demand dies. In case of Justlce League, the original film was awful, you had the cast itself asking for the Snyder Cut giving fans all the ammunition they needed.
We wouldn't have to firehose studios with hate if they simply respected their products artistic integrity, legacies, lore, and history when crafting new entries in those franchises. If you want artistic freedom, make something new. If you want to contribute to a legacy, hold true to that legacy. It's not yours to change.
It's funny you bring up end of evangelion, considering that a large part of that movie's subtext is the idea of fandom culture and people treating pop culture as a religion. It even goes as far as to show footage of real evangelion fans in a theatre waiting for the premiere of a previous Evangelion film and (albeit fake, but based upon real) emails the creators received both praising and criticizing the original tv show's ending. An entire video could be made just pointing out all of that films commentary on fandom culture.
Amazing visuals, absolutely love your style and videos. Great work!!
7:48 Funny, considering End of Evangelion is also considered a "fuck you" to eva fans that demanded a better ending. In some ways the ending is even stranger and more unconventional. These days people love it but...
I am one of those snyder cut chanters and I do have to say if this really has gone on for this long I think its very ridiculous to ask "is this a good or a bd thing". Say you went to a hot dog stand and ordered a hotdog with mustard, they give you one with ketchup, there's nothing wrong with saying you wanted mustard instead for the thing youve purchased. Yes it is a good thing because its simply business, a thing thats been going on for decades now.
Great motion graphics work here and a good analysis.
Bet you’d be on board for the Tomorrowland resurgence :)
I’ll become a patreon if you make a video why you dislike Donnie Darko
When I'm watching your videos, I'm doing nothing else - want to be fully immersed. Wonderful to listen and watch as always.
All this fandom power and we still can't get a Firefly reboot.
Wasn’t the fan outrage a stunt paid for by Zack himself ?
@3:15 for intents and purposes, Superman II was released in the summer of 1981.
This movie shown me that I'm getting old.
Because this isn't the first time this sort of thing happens but people are acting like it is and I, for one, am annoyed by it.
Could you name me some examples?
@@luismarioguerrerosanchez4747 Superman 2, eyes wide shut, Jason goes to hell, psycho, King Kong ... like honestly I could list films that this happened to all day. Films are always cut by the studio and if the director cares enough they get people to bully the studio into releasing it. Some have more vocal producers or actors that champion these varied cuts of films but it’s still the same results.
@@luismarioguerrerosanchez4747 bruh.
Fan4stic (Fantastic Four 2015) is a great example of this.
I could do more but my brain is dead
@@dlobelow760 Call me crazy, but I don't remember Fox releasing the director's cut of Fant4stic after a popular hashtag.
@@Thecatdrums3 Yes, I'm aware of studio interference, but for the most part director cuts are released after the director's fight for it (like Riddley Scott's final cut of Blade Runner) or by people with power in the industry being sane and asking for the release of the director's cut of the film (Martin Scorsese helped convinced WB, funnily enough, to do the right thing of releasing Sergio Leone's cut of Once Upon a Time in America).
The buzz about the Snyder's cut was the fact that fans campaigned all over the internet to convince WB to release thw movie they wanted to watch. Which probably happened in the past, in a different way before the internet of course, but the examples you give have nothing in common with the Snyder's cut.
the news came out, a lot of the online posts asking for the Snyder cut were copypastas
Dial down the bass humm. Some of us use headphones and that stuff in unnecessary