As a former U.S. military combat veteran, I want to thank you for this video. To see these veterans honored in this fashion so many years after the fact has helped to somewhat restore my faith in our government, tarnished so greatly recently.
I was denied by the US Air Force back in late 2000 because I am a cancer survivor. I also attempted to enlist in the Marines, but again was denied. If I had been alive during WWII I would've absolutely enlisted to be a submariner, but I wasn't born until 1983, but I admire everyone who was a part of our war effort during those years and many years after. USS Lagarto, along with the long missing USS Wahoo (captained by the infamous Mush Morton), are heroes on my humble opinion. It's hard to find anyone who served back then nowadays, but Lagarto, Wahoo, and Tang were all amazingly talented, yet tragic subs with amazingly outstanding crews. I will FOREVER stand in salute to these men who gave all for our freedoms. Thank you could NEVER express my gratitude to these men.
@brock_L: Have you read the book, Wake of the Wahoo? Written by a man transferred off her right before her final patrol. My father was a submariner in peace and war, but served on other types of ships, too. He served for 31 years, from 1923 to 1954.
Thank you for this closing to the Lagarto. May God bless you and your team. Thank you to the crew and the families for your sacrifice. May God bless you all and give you forever lasting peace. SEMPER FI
Bad theory. The torpedo door on the inside can't be open after shooting a torpedo. That would never happen except by accident. A trained sailor would have never done that. But it's possible the door could have failed. But doubtful.
I’m a veteran sub sailor and a torpedoman and there is a interlock on the outer door that will not allow you to open the tube door when the outer door is open and they may not have had it installed
I find it incredible , that the US Navy do not look for lost Ships / Boats . These Sailors gave their everything for their country , so I think the country owes these Sailors . They have , I think the Military war graves commission which looks for lost POW's / Soldiers etc , so why not the Sailors and missing Ships etc . I is good to see the Navy recognize this Crew and the Boat . Great Episode
The pacific It is an EXTREMELY large ocean , more than 155 million square kilometers. This leaves out the sea of Japan, South China sea, etc. Not all wrecks will be intact, some will have imploded into shreds, necessitating an expensive mowing the lawn approach with cameras. The area covered for the flight MH370 search: 120,000 square kilometers Cost: Approx 130 million dollars US. Time to search: months Even if you only search the western half of the Pacific, you are looking at 78.5 million square kilometers Do the math, approx 84 billion US dollars, with no guarantee you will find them all. Cut it down to the western 1/4th of the Pacific, still 42 Billion US, most likely more Time to search like that for 1/4 of the Pacific: a century, provided you are in continuous operation every single day of that century. The wrecks found have at least some relative reported position data Quite a few are relatively unkown. Some will be in water deeper than current technology would feasably allow to be searched, absent advances in deep sea tech as well. Once you've identified the presence of a wreck, can you even identify it?, or is it a "probably/possible", a case which exists for even the presence of some deep wreckage today, let alone with additional decades of deterioration.
@@Concerned502 I do thank you for your reply . It would appear that this is not the first time this topic has been covered , I say that because of your answer and all the facts and figures . When you put it that way , I can see the reasons why there isn't a so called Naval War graves , cost prohibitive and the vastness of the seas and oceans . I guess the crew of the USS Lagarto was lucky that all the stars aligned . I hope more stars align over time and more ships are found . Again , I do thank you .cheers .
@Concerned502 I can see the issues with searching generally. However, the Navy didn’t seem too bothered to check out a sub that had already been located until the family members got congress involved. Zero effort when it’s been handed to you on a silver platter doesn’t indicate much concern for those who literally gave their all. I’m sure there are some ships/subs that would be impossible to find, but this one did not seem to be difficult with a little research into Japanese records and talking to fishermen in the area. I wonder how many others might be found with a little work like this?
@@auntkaz815 Imagine if the navy had undertaken the search, on their own initiative, and found nothing? Burning millions on something not authorized by congress in the budget, would be a career ender. There would be hearings. Some congress critter would want to make a name for themselves, dragging the reputation of the navy through the mud, just to score a few points for their next election, regarding "wasteful, unapproved spending" Lots of anti-military spending folk, would EAGERLY lap that up. Give the navy the appropriate budget and actual authorization, and I'm sure they would gladly pursue the task. The Lost 52 Project recently was able to help track down the USS Harder, and they do hope to eventually locate all 52 lost WW2 era U.S. submarines. Will they be able to? It's a daunting task, to say the least. So far, in 18 years, 13 of 52 have been found. The USS Grayback wasn't found until someone realised that the original translation of Japanese records was incorrect, because they dug through the daily radio traffic logs of a local base, and found a discrepency. Other errors in translation may exist. Not all records will be complete. The majority of submarines found so far are indeed around or above the 300 foot line. Easier to find. Fishermen won't be snagging those 2000+ foot depth wrecks though. So far the deepest one found was S-28 in 2017 (8500 feet), and we had good position data by our own forces on that one, in what was essentially our own backyard by that point. (Off Ohua)
It is nice to see the commitment on the part of so many to find these men even after all this time. The footage of USS Lagarto's final resting place is amazing. The massive damage to the sub's main ballast tanks tells us pretty clearly what likely caused her loss. Fleet submarines of that era had very very little reserve buoyancy. They depended almost entirely on the ability to flood and blow water out of the main ballast tanks using compressed air to dive and surface. To help mitigate the effect of damage to the tanks and assist in trimming the boat under varying conditions, the main ballast tanks were divided into groups that could be vented or blown dry individually. The depth charge damage is in a very bad place for Lagarto. It appears to have destroyed 2A, 2C, and potentially 3A as well. Behind the tank, inside the pressure hull, is a myriad of plumbing that could have been, and most likely was severely damaged. Some of that plumbing was under full sea pressure. The forward battery is also in that general area as well, under the deck plates. The batteries of that time were known to produce and emit Chlorine gas when exposed to seawater. All of this is very bad news for the crew. While the pressure hulls appears to be intact, It would not have taken a whole lot of excess water to overcome the boat's ability pump enough out of the bilges and blow enough ballast to return to the surface. The idea floated about the torpedo tube door was absurd. Both the inner and outer doors are pressure proof. The diver saying otherwise is talking out his butt. Earlier Gato class boast had trouble operating the outer tube doors and were unable to open/close them at greater depths, but this was purely due to them being operated by a hand crank. Late war boats such a Lagarto had hydraulically operated outer doors and could operate them at much deeper depths. It is interesting that it is open though because they would normally have been closed immediately after firing so the tube could be drained and reloaded. This is especially true as part of rigging the boat for a depth charge attack. The fact that it is still open and the diving planes(Also hydraulic) are in the full dive position is enough to lead one to believe that they may have also suffered a loss of power scenario as a result of the damage. I cannot imagine the hell that crew must have gone through. All of them heroes. May God grant the families peace now that their loved ones have been found and properly honored.
Submarines only open the outer tube door to fire a torpedo and on these old boats it would have been closed after the torpedo left the tube. Also there is a mechanical interlock so the inner and outer torpedo doors can't be opened at the same time. I served on submarines and when I was a kid these World War 2 submariners were my heroes. When I went to submarine school over 40 years ago the buildings on based were the same ones used by those submariners. It was a surreal feeling to walk the streets and sidewalks, using the same classrooms and trainers those men used. I truly felt like I was following in the footsteps of giants.
I had patient that was 6ft 3in served in the USS Angler, I asked him "wasn't he kind of tall to be in a fleet boat". He said when they did his psychic interview at new London the doctor actually said the same him the same thing, he answered yes, doc stamped PASSED! and on into school. And developed a permanent stoop posture! They were depth charged and other things. He did 4 years Navy 18 years USCG 3 years in those old 36 ft open cockpit motor lifeboats (according to him the best boat the USCG had! Tough men to crew those 3 man boats in the days of "You have to go out but you don't have to come back USGC days!" until the USCG sent him to electrics school.
I will say a couple of things regarding the blast damage. First, even if the hull was not visibly breached, you could have still had a seam open up along a weld. The shock could very well have killed men in the space behind the blast. If there was any flooding from the blast in the battery, toxic gasses would have filled the boat. Furthermore, unless otherwise broken, there was a lockout between the inner and outer torpedo tube doors. If one is open, the other one is locked shut. Honestly, the comments appear to be artificial docudrama.
The LOST 52 project is making good headway to finding ALL of these "on eternal patrol" submarines. So far they have found 5 or 6 . All privately funded.
The would’ve been sealed with the watertight door. She would’ve became nose heavy, but it probably would not flooded the whole boat. She may not have been able to surface.
I don't understand why they couldn't dive in the gulf of Siam? The average depth was 250ft and the Gato class was only rated to 250ft. They could dive to 125ft or so and maneuver just fine and still be only halfway to the bottom. The previous Gar class was only rated to 250ft. It seems to be perfect for missions out there.
NO spaceships to Mars, more Moon shots, take that money and take CARE of living Vets, and Finding our missing valiant servicemen, with passion , determination and zeal.
Actually the nick name "pig boat" goes back to the US Navy's first submarine in 1900. That submarine didn't have a periscope and frequently surfaved and dived like a dolphin. Sailors then often called dolphins sea pigs, and so that first submarine was derisively called a pig boat. Those first submariners took that nick name as a badge of honor.
Look at another Balo class submarine to see what is on the inside of that place on the hull. But if the ballast tank is damaged that definitely would make it difficult if not impossible for the sub to maintain neutral buoyancy much less positive buoyancy required to surface.
There didn't need to be massive damage to the Lagarto pressure hull. With the amount of damage to the main ballast tank on the port side they would not have been able to blow the water out of the ballast tanks to surface.
A 600lb depth charge purportedly that close had to have breached the p-hull or broken hull valves, pipes, etc. I read that until the Tench class submarines came on line, a forward (#1?)ballast tank vent line ran through the forward torpedo room. That was always at sea pressure. That could have sheared by the violent close explosion, easily flooding and causing all sorts of damage.
You can certainly rely,--on the "Dept-Defence"-to do absolutely nothing to help you,--if they sent a ship there,to check the Sub out,-they would have been sent there ''kicking & screaming"-to do so-They could not care less,-about our Service People,-Past & present.-
It’s my thought that if the people of America let China or Russia or any other nation come in and think we Americans are just gonna laid down and let them take over We owe these men and many many more an apology for turning our backs and letting them do it. I for one am not nor will not allow it to happen if I’m able
Actually money is rarely sent to other countries. People that want to influence your opinion only make it seem like it is. The "money" is actually the value of the aid being sent. Using the $80 billion aid for Ukraine the military gathers up a bunch of old equipment our soldiers have been using for years and ammunition that has been in storage for decades and send it to Ukraine for them to use. The $80 billion is then given to US companies to make brand new equipment for our soldiers and new ammunition for when we need it. It creates jobs at those companies for American workers and keeps our military servicemen equipped with top notch weapons that haven't been rebuilt 30 times. You see how that is a good idea? That is why some people could care less about aid to Ukraine. Do you honestly think any American would be ok with just writing an $80 billion dollar check when pur country has so much debt? You guys need to seriously get to the truth of the BS you are being fed. Truly amazes me how you just believe all the BS your side shovels at you and you just blindly agree with it. If you bothered to get the facts on topics I can nearly guarantee you wouldn't be against half the things you claim to be. We both know you won't though. You will keep spouting complete nonsense and propaganda all over the internet and those of us that know what is actually happening will continue to rub our temples and wonder how anyone can remain so willingly ignorant...
As a former U.S. military combat veteran, I want to thank you for this video. To see these veterans honored in this fashion so many years after the fact has helped to somewhat restore my faith in our government, tarnished so greatly recently.
I was denied by the US Air Force back in late 2000 because I am a cancer survivor. I also attempted to enlist in the Marines, but again was denied. If I had been alive during WWII I would've absolutely enlisted to be a submariner, but I wasn't born until 1983, but I admire everyone who was a part of our war effort during those years and many years after. USS Lagarto, along with the long missing USS Wahoo (captained by the infamous Mush Morton), are heroes on my humble opinion. It's hard to find anyone who served back then nowadays, but Lagarto, Wahoo, and Tang were all amazingly talented, yet tragic subs with amazingly outstanding crews. I will FOREVER stand in salute to these men who gave all for our freedoms. Thank you could NEVER express my gratitude to these men.
Yes Brock same for us diabetics
@brock_L: Have you read the book, Wake of the Wahoo? Written by a man transferred off her right before her final patrol. My father was a submariner in peace and war, but served on other types of ships, too. He served for 31 years, from 1923 to 1954.
May the sailors of the USS Lagarto rest in peace and may eternal light shine upon them. Amen.
You can see how devastated the son of the skipper is...after all these years, he loves and misses his hero.
Well produced. Thank you for telling the whole story...not just focusing on finding Lagarto.
I wasnt aware that submarines were built in Manitowoc. Very good video about a great town, great people, and a hero ship and her hero crew.
Yeah, they floated them down the Illinois River, through the city of Chicago.
So long as these videos exist the fine Men and Women that served and Died will NOT be Forgotten. My Grandmother was a welder...
Thank you for this closing to the Lagarto. May God bless you and your team. Thank you to the crew and the families for your sacrifice. May God bless you all and give you forever lasting peace. SEMPER FI
This short film is a sensitive and beautiful piece of history...
The WW2 submarine campaign was absolutely nuts. Those guys were just built different.
Amazing video. My mother was POW Batavia & i know how any comfort is hard to come with this.
I wish they could find the USS Tang. I lost an uncle on that sub when it went down.
It out there some were mite be in mine field you never on
Bad theory. The torpedo door on the inside can't be open after shooting a torpedo. That would never happen except by accident. A trained sailor would have never done that. But it's possible the door could have failed. But doubtful.
I’m a veteran sub sailor and a torpedoman and there is a interlock on the outer door that will not allow you to open the tube door when the outer door is open and they may not have had it installed
I find it incredible , that the US Navy do not look for lost Ships / Boats . These Sailors gave their everything for their country , so I think the country owes these Sailors . They have , I think the Military war graves commission which looks for lost POW's / Soldiers etc , so why not the Sailors and missing Ships etc .
I is good to see the Navy recognize this Crew and the Boat . Great Episode
The pacific It is an EXTREMELY large ocean , more than 155 million square kilometers. This leaves out the sea of Japan, South China sea, etc.
Not all wrecks will be intact, some will have imploded into shreds, necessitating an expensive mowing the lawn approach with cameras.
The area covered for the flight MH370 search: 120,000 square kilometers
Cost: Approx 130 million dollars US.
Time to search: months
Even if you only search the western half of the Pacific, you are looking at 78.5 million square kilometers
Do the math, approx 84 billion US dollars, with no guarantee you will find them all.
Cut it down to the western 1/4th of the Pacific, still 42 Billion US, most likely more
Time to search like that for 1/4 of the Pacific: a century, provided you are in continuous operation every single day of that century.
The wrecks found have at least some relative reported position data
Quite a few are relatively unkown.
Some will be in water deeper than current technology would feasably allow to be searched, absent advances in deep sea tech as well.
Once you've identified the presence of a wreck, can you even identify it?, or is it a "probably/possible", a case which exists for even the presence of some deep wreckage today, let alone with additional decades of deterioration.
@@Concerned502 I do thank you for your reply .
It would appear that this is not the first time this topic has been covered , I say that because of your answer and all the facts and figures .
When you put it that way , I can see the reasons why there isn't a so called Naval War graves , cost prohibitive and the vastness of the seas and oceans .
I guess the crew of the USS Lagarto was lucky that all the stars aligned . I hope more stars align over time and more ships are found .
Again , I do thank you .cheers .
@Concerned502
I can see the issues with searching generally. However, the Navy didn’t seem too bothered to check out a sub that had already been located until the family members got congress involved. Zero effort when it’s been handed to you on a silver platter doesn’t indicate much concern for those who literally gave their all.
I’m sure there are some ships/subs that would be impossible to find, but this one did not seem to be difficult with a little research into Japanese records and talking to fishermen in the area. I wonder how many others might be found with a little work like this?
@@auntkaz815 Imagine if the navy had undertaken the search, on their own initiative, and found nothing?
Burning millions on something not authorized by congress in the budget, would be a career ender.
There would be hearings.
Some congress critter would want to make a name for themselves, dragging the reputation of the navy through the mud, just to score a few points for their next election, regarding "wasteful, unapproved spending"
Lots of anti-military spending folk, would EAGERLY lap that up.
Give the navy the appropriate budget and actual authorization, and I'm sure they would gladly pursue the task.
The Lost 52 Project recently was able to help track down the USS Harder, and they do hope to eventually locate all 52 lost WW2 era U.S. submarines.
Will they be able to?
It's a daunting task, to say the least.
So far, in 18 years, 13 of 52 have been found.
The USS Grayback wasn't found until someone realised that the original translation of Japanese records was incorrect, because they dug through the daily radio traffic logs of a local base, and found a discrepency.
Other errors in translation may exist.
Not all records will be complete.
The majority of submarines found so far are indeed around or above the 300 foot line. Easier to find.
Fishermen won't be snagging those 2000+ foot depth wrecks though. So far the deepest one found was S-28 in 2017 (8500 feet), and we had good position data by our own forces on that one, in what was essentially our own backyard by that point. (Off Ohua)
So beautiful to get the recognition deserved in the end
It is nice to see the commitment on the part of so many to find these men even after all this time. The footage of USS Lagarto's final resting place is amazing. The massive damage to the sub's main ballast tanks tells us pretty clearly what likely caused her loss. Fleet submarines of that era had very very little reserve buoyancy. They depended almost entirely on the ability to flood and blow water out of the main ballast tanks using compressed air to dive and surface. To help mitigate the effect of damage to the tanks and assist in trimming the boat under varying conditions, the main ballast tanks were divided into groups that could be vented or blown dry individually. The depth charge damage is in a very bad place for Lagarto. It appears to have destroyed 2A, 2C, and potentially 3A as well. Behind the tank, inside the pressure hull, is a myriad of plumbing that could have been, and most likely was severely damaged. Some of that plumbing was under full sea pressure. The forward battery is also in that general area as well, under the deck plates. The batteries of that time were known to produce and emit Chlorine gas when exposed to seawater. All of this is very bad news for the crew. While the pressure hulls appears to be intact, It would not have taken a whole lot of excess water to overcome the boat's ability pump enough out of the bilges and blow enough ballast to return to the surface. The idea floated about the torpedo tube door was absurd. Both the inner and outer doors are pressure proof. The diver saying otherwise is talking out his butt. Earlier Gato class boast had trouble operating the outer tube doors and were unable to open/close them at greater depths, but this was purely due to them being operated by a hand crank. Late war boats such a Lagarto had hydraulically operated outer doors and could operate them at much deeper depths. It is interesting that it is open though because they would normally have been closed immediately after firing so the tube could be drained and reloaded. This is especially true as part of rigging the boat for a depth charge attack. The fact that it is still open and the diving planes(Also hydraulic) are in the full dive position is enough to lead one to believe that they may have also suffered a loss of power scenario as a result of the damage. I cannot imagine the hell that crew must have gone through. All of them heroes. May God grant the families peace now that their loved ones have been found and properly honored.
That's pretty emotional . I pray to God for peace of all such brave
spirits
God rest the men of Lagarto - on eternal patrol.
Submarines only open the outer tube door to fire a torpedo and on these old boats it would have been closed after the torpedo left the tube.
Also there is a mechanical interlock so the inner and outer torpedo doors can't be opened at the same time.
I served on submarines and when I was a kid these World War 2 submariners were my heroes.
When I went to submarine school over 40 years ago the buildings on based were the same ones used by those submariners.
It was a surreal feeling to walk the streets and sidewalks, using the same classrooms and trainers those men used.
I truly felt like I was following in the footsteps of giants.
I had patient that was 6ft 3in served in the USS Angler, I asked him "wasn't he kind of tall to be in a fleet boat". He said when they did his psychic interview at new London the doctor actually said the same him the same thing, he answered yes, doc stamped PASSED! and on into school. And developed a permanent stoop posture! They were depth charged and other things. He did 4 years Navy 18 years USCG 3 years in those old 36 ft open cockpit motor lifeboats (according to him the best boat the USCG had! Tough men to crew those 3 man boats in the days of "You have to go out but you don't have to come back USGC days!" until the USCG sent him to electrics school.
Just listened to this story and god bless them and the family. Uk
Salute I was a Lt Commander in the Navy
On Eternal Patrol.
I will say a couple of things regarding the blast damage. First, even if the hull was not visibly breached, you could have still had a seam open up along a weld. The shock could very well have killed men in the space behind the blast. If there was any flooding from the blast in the battery, toxic gasses would have filled the boat.
Furthermore, unless otherwise broken, there was a lockout between the inner and outer torpedo tube doors. If one is open, the other one is locked shut. Honestly, the comments appear to be artificial docudrama.
The LOST 52 project is making good headway to finding ALL of these "on eternal patrol" submarines.
So far they have found 5 or 6 .
All privately funded.
Another Great Video 📹 love the platform u never dissapoint ur Fans
Great Job 💯 ❤
Shameful it takes citizen pressure to get an answer when the govt should be on it. But now we see how thats gone. Rip sailors.
What a time to be alive.
Yeah, about 12 LSTs and some early mine warfare ships.
Is it possible that the ballast tank was so badly deformed it was not able to gain enough buoyancy to ever surface again?
They should be able to raise this Sub
Nice silent hunter footage
Wow the prayer and menders printed upon the suit yep he still with us
Too bad those war graves are now being disturbed by treasure hunters specially the chinese.
Sadly its only a matter of time till it gets scrapped , its not deep enough to be safe .
The steel is pre nuclear age and is very valuable for use in medical equipment
I only wonder if the ropes on the hatch if could have closed it if was open prior or if has a lock on it
The would’ve been sealed with the watertight door. She would’ve became nose heavy, but it probably would not flooded the whole boat. She may not have been able to surface.
they should revist with modern small subs to go inside
I don't understand why they couldn't dive in the gulf of Siam? The average depth was 250ft and the Gato class was only rated to 250ft. They could dive to 125ft or so and maneuver just fine and still be only halfway to the bottom. The previous Gar class was only rated to 250ft. It seems to be perfect for missions out there.
I do wonder if it was netted
NO spaceships to Mars, more Moon shots, take that money and take CARE of living Vets, and Finding our missing valiant servicemen, with passion , determination and zeal.
Gadfly here 😱. The future must tell. Years of flooding could be the cause of this present state. No evidence of attempts to escape. Who can say 🤷♂️
Actually the nick name "pig boat" goes back to the US Navy's first submarine in 1900.
That submarine didn't have a periscope and frequently surfaved and dived like a dolphin. Sailors then often called dolphins sea pigs, and so that first submarine was derisively called a pig boat.
Those first submariners took that nick name as a badge of honor.
Look at another Balo class submarine to see what is on the inside of that place on the hull. But if the ballast tank is damaged that definitely would make it difficult if not impossible for the sub to maintain neutral buoyancy much less positive buoyancy required to surface.
There didn't need to be massive damage to the Lagarto pressure hull.
With the amount of damage to the main ballast tank on the port side they would not have been able to blow the water out of the ballast tanks to surface.
A 600lb depth charge purportedly that close had to have breached the p-hull or broken hull valves, pipes, etc.
I read that until the Tench class submarines came on line, a forward (#1?)ballast tank vent line ran through the forward torpedo room. That was always at sea pressure. That could have sheared by the violent close explosion, easily flooding and causing all sorts of damage.
🎉🎉🎉🎉😢😢😢😢.
Rest in peace.
You can certainly rely,--on the "Dept-Defence"-to do absolutely nothing to help you,--if they sent a ship there,to check the Sub out,-they would have been sent there ''kicking & screaming"-to do so-They could not care less,-about our Service People,-Past & present.-
Chlorine gas killed the crew? Salt water flooding the batteries?
It’s my thought that if the people of America let China or Russia or any other nation come in and think we Americans are just gonna laid down and let them take over We owe these men and many many more an apology for turning our backs and letting them do it. I for one am not nor will not allow it to happen if I’m able
Merica
navy should look for all lost vessels use the money sent to foreign countries
Actually money is rarely sent to other countries. People that want to influence your opinion only make it seem like it is. The "money" is actually the value of the aid being sent. Using the $80 billion aid for Ukraine the military gathers up a bunch of old equipment our soldiers have been using for years and ammunition that has been in storage for decades and send it to Ukraine for them to use. The $80 billion is then given to US companies to make brand new equipment for our soldiers and new ammunition for when we need it. It creates jobs at those companies for American workers and keeps our military servicemen equipped with top notch weapons that haven't been rebuilt 30 times. You see how that is a good idea? That is why some people could care less about aid to Ukraine. Do you honestly think any American would be ok with just writing an $80 billion dollar check when pur country has so much debt? You guys need to seriously get to the truth of the BS you are being fed. Truly amazes me how you just believe all the BS your side shovels at you and you just blindly agree with it. If you bothered to get the facts on topics I can nearly guarantee you wouldn't be against half the things you claim to be. We both know you won't though. You will keep spouting complete nonsense and propaganda all over the internet and those of us that know what is actually happening will continue to rub our temples and wonder how anyone can remain so willingly ignorant...
@@robertschumann7737 yea they do i read the bill
I wonder how many women cheated on the husbands
Assinine comment