William Shakespeare Needs More Gay (w/ Rantasmo)
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
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It's such a tiny detail, but as an intersex person, your decision to say "all sexes" rather than "both sexes" was a subtle but painfully rare nod to my existence, and I am very grateful for that.
Overall, another great instance of Summer of Shakespeare, and a delightful introductory exploration of queer theory and Shakespeare. Thank you very much!!
I never knew how much I wanted to have you two collab. This will be informative and gay, my favourite combination.
I wanted to post this exact same comment. This is one of those perfect moments when something you never knew you needed in your life happens and it makes your soul sing with rainbows.
bluejeanserenade glad we think alike.
I was going to post the same comment too! Excellent analysis though I'm bummed that Shakespeare Month is short this year.
I thought they had already done something like this before. It felt supernatural
Sasha Wallace ...still needs more gay! (Sorry couldn't resist)
(7:29-8:40) Your discussion of Twelfth Night reminded me of this production I saw back in high school, performed by a “vaudevillian Shakespeare” company. The cast was made up of five actors - three men and two women - and each member portrayed at least two characters, signified by changing their hat or wig. So the actress playing Viola/Cesario also played her twin. As Viola, she wore a tutu over pants and suspenders; when she was Cesario, she wore a newsboy cap, and as Sebastian she wore a bowler. The play ended with her throwing away both hats, Orsino and Olivia coming up on either side of her to kiss her cheeks, and three of them left the stage together linking arms. It was adorable!
I WAS THE ONE WHO REQUESTED THIS ON TWITTER :D:D!! I CAN"T BELIEVE THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENED!!
We are forever in your debt. In futures bright we shall remember this event, the Conjunction of the Beards.
The Beards analyzed the Bard! Love it :-)
Miriam Quintana i thank you with every fiber of my soul.
Surprised y’all didn’t bring up Antonio and Sebastian from Twelfth Night...my teacher (who’s a Shakespearean scholar) said he believes they were bangin’
Both Antonios are gay but have their men leave them
Truuuuu
I was lucky enough to see Emma Rice's A Midsummer Night's Dream, at Shakespeare's Globe last year, Helena had been made into Helenus to create a very effective coming out story for Demetrius. Also, you might be interested to know that in Peter Ackroyd's Queer City, he says Elizabethan theatres where well known pickup spots for gay sex.
57 academics just punched the air.
Monique Ocampo you are awesome
And now 57 have liked your comment
Back in high school, I drafted a play called "Romeo and Julio". Romeo discovering his bisexuality with his new love, Julio. The families get along just fine; they just can't handle their kids' sexuality.
That's an interesting twist on it.
It feels so very mid-90s when I look back on it now, but thank you.
Interesting!
Michael Jenkins That could be a good thing though. If you ever wanted to revive the idea, you could make it a period piece now. It's a neat idea, with how RARE bisexual boys still are in media, the potential for a cross cultural relationship (going off the name Julio), AND the twist on the formula with feuding families not being the main issue...sorry, I'm not trying to pressure, I hope it doesn't come off as that. I just got excited about the idea, don't mind me.
I mean its a musical and it takes the “kids me kate” approach but uh, Bare a pop opera exists and that sounds pretty dang similar.
According to the OED, the earliest known use of 'fairy' meaning homosexual is from 1895. So it seems you're right.
From American Journal of Psychology: "This coincides with what is known of the peculiar societies of inverts. Coffee-clatches, where the members dress themselves with aprons, etc., and knit, gossip and crotchet; balls, where men adopt the ladies' evening dress, are well known in Europe. ‘The Fairies’ of New York are said to be a similar secret organization."
www.jstor.org/stable/1411581?seq=64
Kyle: "You're hot. Sorry about the penis."
That needs to be a clip/reply video by itself.
“I’m happy to say that I’m-“
Wait wait wait.... was Kyle about to come out as bi before Rantasmo cut him off???
An absolutely wonderful video to end Pride Month on! And you uploaded this on the day we FINALLY got marriage equality in Germany! :D ❤ 🏳️🌈 Double perfect timing, good sir!
drudenstein_ Congratulations!!! #lovealwayswins 🏳️🌈❤️
Viele Glückwünsche mate...I apologise for the Google Translate if it wasn't a good one...
drudenstein_ Congrats! I just woke up so you broke the news for me. ⚢⚣💓
drudenstein_ Congratulations!!
Congratulations
And just to add fuel to the fire, let's not forget the royalty for whom the plays were written. A snide little Latin saying from Shakespeare's lifetime translates to "Elizabeth was our king; now James is our queen."
When two of my favourite RUclips channels combine... I am Captain Planet?
Look, forget that. Rantasmo and Kyle have done a video together.
Today is a good day.
Now I want to see fan art of the Chez crew drawn as Power Rangers with a Chez Apocalypse Megazord (whatever that would look like).
Well, Rantasmo is fire and Kyle is wind, so we still need water, earth and heart.
"Has existed for always" has to be one of my new favourite phrases, Thank you Kyle and Rantasmo. Also great idea for a crossover. LOVE IT.
Good timing, we just legalized same sex marriage in Germany. Greetings 🤗
Sebastian Niedermeier congratulations!! 🏳️🌈👭
Congratulations! *=)*
Shame Merkel voted against it
Congratulations! we're so happy for you!
@@gregorsamsa9264(Laughing but crying on the inside)
This is why Shakespeare is so awesome. I've seen Shakespeare adaptations encompassing all sorts of people, places, traditions, themes, situations (as Kyle's Shakespeare Months have so often shown.) It seems like Shakespeare can literally be for anyone. The plots are the same, but the context can be changed to resonate with any audience.
Lady Marmalade "He was not of an age, but for all time" and, as the video pointed out, he "invented the human." There is very good reason those two lines are so, so true.
Anyone else watching this after Kyle came out as bi?
I love Twelfth Night and have no issue with Orsino and Viola ending up together but I've always thought Olivia's cop out romance with some dude she technically doesn't care about was such an insult to a character who really wasn't that much of an idiot that all she cared about was looks. If anything Olivia should have got to be independent.
I just rewatched the beginning 5 times cuz everything needs more gay crossovers and Rantasmo’s 8D is the best thing on RUclips. Please do more!
I'm currently in a Shakespeare class and I made the case that Hotspur was like Frederick the Great; genius military leader but gay. When I was reading the scene between him and his wife I could see him blocking her with pieces of furniture and grudgingly agreeing to perform his dynastic duty.
Ah excellent and great timing - I saw Twelfth Night at Globe this week. It was played broad and silly with little room for overt examination of gender and sexuality but given the production is led by Le Gateau Chocolat as a bearded sequinned-kaftan-wearing Feste and the company is the habitually cross-casting Kneehigh, it observes that last point of implicitly playing with gender and sexuality.
Great to see two of my fave video essayists team up, hope you do again!
8:44 Also, Ganymede is LITERALLY the most queer-coded name possible (well, except Sappho, I guess), given its mythological significance
This was absolutely delightful! Thank you so much for this lovely collaboration :) A fantastic collaboration from two equally fantastic content creators
omg my two favorite internet guys together...is this the real like or is this just fantassyyyyy
Just fantasy, my dude... A fantasy everyone can see and share in. :P JK.
I never even realized I wanted you two to colab, but here it s and I am sooooooo happy.
You're missing a huge example of genderfluidity in this video, I was honestly surprised it wasn't included: Richard II!
Richard's "womanliness" is constantly contrasted with Henry Bolingbroke's "manliness." An interesting addition to this is how Richard is very openly affectionate to his wife, proving that as of the 1590s gender expression =/= sexuality as we see it stereotyped today. Then of course there are Richard's "favorites" and his spectacular breakdown during the deposition scene.
I really wish there was a copy of Fiona Shaw's Richard II could watch...
So much to think about from two awesome reviewers. Thank you.
You know how long I wished for this video?!?! You deserve an award!!
No... he should have *all* the Oscars!
*pew*
The BBC and the RSC did queer adaptations of The Merchant of Venice in which Antonio was most definitely gay and Bassanio was hella bi. They were great! 👌❤
great video guys! i recently saw a performance of two gentlemen of verona, and based on some spiffy staging decisions, portrayed Silvia and Julia falling in love and running off to live together at the end. it was an all-around great performance, but that ending was nothing short of perfect!
Did anyone see Twelfth Night at the Manchester Royal Exchange Theater? Because their version was absolutely amazing. They definitely ran with the queer interpretation, Violas face when she finds out they are twins is just perfect. Also the actors were flippin amazing ^_^
Interesting! When we talked about The Merchant of Venice in my Race in Shakespeare class, we did talk about how much Antonio goes on about how much he loves Basanio and would do anything for him. Also, how the men are closer to each other than to the women... and the same pattern holds true for the women.
As for the sonnets... In the one you read, yeah, that does sound very much like it's not just platonic love. I mean, in a lot of early English poetry, you do see that, where love for your warlord and brothers in arms is considered the ultimate love. It's not sexual, but it is couched in terms that we consider romantic today. Tolkein used this in Lord of the Rings, which is why so many get the impression that Sam is gay for Frodo. But here... I mean, Shakespeare compares the youth to a woman, and a woman's attractiveness is emphacized. "By addition me of thee defeated," pretty obviously means, nature gave you something extra that makes it so I can't have you. "By adding one thing to my purpose nothing," is especially interesting, since... Not only was "thing" slang for penis, as it is today, "nothing" was slang for vagina. But then with "But since she pricked thee out for women's pleasure/mine be thy love and thy love's use their treasure," you see that, though he loves him like a woman, he's not going to have sex with him (nice double entendre on the word "prick" there). So it's a romantic but sexless love. I think it's pretty clear that this love is presented as abberant, because otherwise... If it were similar to the platonic love between men held up by early English poetry, why would Shakespeare be comparing the youth to a woman? Why would he be so preoccupied with genitalia?
This was too short, I could have watched this for hours!
i saw this video in my recommendations; one look at the title and i knew i had to watch it! freshly subscribed, thank you for your work!
Shakespeare just created every single storyline for soap operas.
I've always found the genderbending characters interesting because even normal women crossdressing was men playing women pretending to be men.
This reminds me of when we went to see Twelfth Night at the Globe in London (featuring 70s punk music and a benevolent drag queen. ) My parents hated it, but I actually found it pretty entertaining
Quite interesting and fun to watch. Bonus points for clips from Were the World Mine. Well done!
oh rantasmo made another video...wait that's Kyle...and their doing Shakespeare...YES! Three of my favourite film review/study things in one
A whole video on LGBT & Shakespeare and not one mention of Mercutio!
I have been waiting my entire life for this video!
I've been waiting for this for ages! Thank you so much for making this!
I have been watching my way thru Rantasmo's playlist this last week.
Strange coincidence.
I was just thinking yesterday that you should make a video about this and you did not disappoint
12 minutes of Rantasmo oh yes
To say that Viola is, essentially, a trans man because she is a woman in disguise is... a complete misinterpretation of what being trans is and falls under ye olde "Transgender People Here To Trick The Cis Straights..." trope. Was a bit odd to see such out-dated notions in an otherwise rather informed vid.
Other than that, great video!
Is the "turned asexual" really that bad? If someone for some reason stops having interest in sex or sexual attraction of any kind are they not functionally asexual?
If it’s used as simply a colloquial way of saying he lost all interest in sex is it that bad?
If we can acknowledge fluidity in sexuality why not asexuality?
joaov2, I don’t know. I’m certainly not an expert. It’s probably more a knee jerk reaction by people like me who are over tired of people assuming asexuality is something we “grow out of” or will one day “change from.” My lack of sexual desire now is not valid because one day I will have those desires. So better get a guy to flirt with me now to just hurry it along. *shrugs* But I’ve also met people who don’t really seem to have sexual desire anymore despite once having it, so I don’t know what you’d call that
...the minute I saw this on my subscription feed, I squealed lile when Rantasmo found out The Comeback was being revived AND JUST THE OPENING WITH KYLE'S GLORIOUS EYEBROWS AND JAMIE'S EXPECTANT SMILE FULFILLED MY EXPECTATIONS. IT'S A PRIDE MONTH MIRACLE.
Also I love how half the comments here are about interpretations that were "missed". Guys, there are SO MANY queer interpretations of Shakespeare they'd need to make a whole documentary to cover even half of them.......not that I'd be opposed to that...Patreon goal?
I really liked this video. Good job, you two.
Antony & Cleopatra deserves special mention, every aspect of the play is dominated by sexuality and gender. It's a really intense play, but also really good.
Accidentally great timing despite the planend one, Germany finally just passed an equal marriage act after having an unequal marriage option since 2007 due to consservative resistance in the secound chamber.
This is one of my favorite videos of both of you. And its very fitting that it came out today, since Germany (the country I live in) has just passed a law to open marriage to same sex couples. Happy Pride!
I couldn't click on this fast enough! When I played Rosalind back in my acting days I decided she was bi because, damn. ;)
Two of my favorite video pop-culture analysts doing a crossover? Oh hell yes! This was everything I hoped. :D
I'm like a year late but "As You Like It" has some undertones with Orlando falling for Rosalinda as a woman and as Ganymede
Two of my favorite reviewers, I love it!
I was so charmed by the opening of this video
Congrats to Germany
Though weren't most of the female roles in the period played by teenage boys rather than men, Which would cast a bit of a different light. Another relevant detail which I'm sure plenty of scholars would have mentioned would have been the possible influence of Italian culture at the time which in certain city states like Florence homoerotic relationships were quite common if not an accepted norm socially if not legally and religiously.
Through that lens, the culture takes on a less queer one and more of an ancient Greek "pederastic" tone. Though the influence on Italian culture in Shakespeare's plays is inarguable. How many of his stories take place in then-contemporary Italy or ancient Rome?
it feels weird to hear that club-ish music and see kyle on the screen. I associate you with more classic stuff, because that's what you usually have playing in the background XD
If it interests you, the TV Danish / BBC co-poduction "Hamlet at Elsinore" (1964) features one of the most overt homoromantic interpretations of Hamlet and Horatio's relationship I've ever seen, and it was intentional according to Horatio's Michael Cain.
haven't watched kyle in a while. He's beard looks so awesome here
I'm so happy you used the Were the World Mine soundtrack. Not a perfect film, but certainly underrated.
stay awsome you two!! can't wait for the next crossover!
Hell yeah! That's how you do a crossover!
My two review fixations for the summer crossing over? with fucking impressive conversational editing????? dope
I think the most gay relationship in the canon is the one between Achilles and Patroclus in Troilus & Cressida. It is still ambiguous (as is any discussion of homosexuality in the canon), but their relationship is very affectionate.
okay but the relationships in twelfth night are anything but completely straight. the central romance makes absolutely no sense if orsino isn't bi. he and cesario clearly have a lot of affection for each other anyway, and as soon as orsino finds out that “cesario” is actually female he immediately wants to marry her. but if this love story is supposed to be believable and developed, if orsino actually loves viola, he would have had to have loved cesario too. even if he wasn’t completely aware of this, the point still stands that as soon as his love for viola becomes socially acceptable, his first course of action is to start an actual relationship with her.
also there's antonio who's not even coded he's just gay
I was waiting for "Were the World Mine" I really hope you do a full review of it sometime...either of you
I... I actually wrote an essay on queerness in Twelfth Night, especially because the version I'd seen and was my default idea of the performance of it was the one with Mark Rylance as Olivia.
It's nice to see I wasn't wrong with my arguments in that essay, because you've basically said everything I said, just... more broadly.
You have one last Kurosawa directed Shakespeare film to cover. We await it, next year...
CROSS OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, it's awesome to see two of my Fav content creators working together.
It's my understanding that the play Troilus and Cressida even had canonically gay characters in Achilles and Patroclus. While historically, the legends are a bit iffy, Shakespeare's take seems more clear. And by clear I mean gay.
So, a male actor played the role of a woman whose twin brother is dead. That woman, impersonated by a male actor, impersonates a male servant who is courted by a male duke who believe her to be a man and end by marrying her as a woman.
ooo-keyyy
I'm sure you've read The Portrait of Mr W.H. already but it's so fascinating to read Oscar Wilde's argument on the matter of Shakespeare's sexuality. He even cited those sonets at his trial.
Sonnet 20 is some serious call me by your name stuff
The comments are going to be civil.
Kyle, you have been the driving force behind my interest in Shakespeare after high school, considering my English teacher was shit at explaining his plays
Why do I find Rantasmo's oddly calico beard so hypnotizing? :Y
Thanks now I don't have to research the internet hell for my essay! ; )
Of course the really, REALLY gay character in Twelfth Night is Antonio. I mean, besides the obvious sexual puns ("I could not stay behind you: my desire, /More sharp than filed steel, did spur me forth"), there's a lot to support the idea that he's in (possibly unrequited) love for Sebastian. "This youth that you see here/I snatch'd one half out of the jaws of death,/Relieved him with such sanctity of love,/And to his image, which methought did promise/Most venerable worth, did I devotion."
I once saw a production that not only made the subtext between them incredibly obvious, but ended with the happy couples walking off and leaving Antonio (still imprisoned because of his past deeds) alone. It was so well-acted that my friends and I were actually SAD at the end.
lookong at the title I'm going: "fabulous!"
Crossover!
I know bedmates were a thing back then, at least among women, and that it was often platonic/familial (see: Beatrice & Hero in Much Ado), but it also seems like one of those things that uptight academics insist was TOTALLY 100% straight 200 years later.
Does anyone have any information on whether it was ever acknowledged to be potentially romantic/sexual back then, or whether or not later academics tried to scrub the queerness out of it?
Also, can we talk about Ariel being neither male nor female?
Did Ariel speak in Troque too?
"Shakespeare is the best writer"
"Shakespeare invented a huge percentage of english words"
"Shakespeare invented the human"
Not saying he's bad or anything, but ... maybe a teensy bit overhyped?
I get what you're say, and can understand it to some degree, but, no. Not for many. You can, with very little effort in most cases, adapt Shakespeare to fit nearly any mould. His stories can fit any almost any idea, ideology, or philosophy while still not being watered down too much (this very series has shown some that stretched it too far). When your ideas are that applicable to that many applications, it's not hard to understand why he's as hyped as he is.
n
Now many just don't care for Shakespeare and/or feel that a work shouldn't be reinterpreted to fit a different or new idea, so they will feel that this hype is overhype, but otherwise? I think it fits perfectly.
You need to look at it with perspective. What authors have as much influence on western literature as William Shakespeare? Or on the English language itself? Prior to Shakespeare you have people like Chaucer and Dante, but it's his plays that create this idea of self conception which we carry to this day. Read up on the subject if you feel skeptical, but it only sounds overhyped if you are unfamiliar with literature and the history surrounding it.
My Dude, I know literature very well. Shakespeare may be very influential in English literature but for example in German literature there's only occasional little blips of Ol' Willy Shakes, but every Biggest Writer Of Our Culture appears occasionally in other cultures, so it's nothing extraordinary. Shakespeare ain't as big as yall secluded native English speakers think he is.
Dliess Mgg But to play the other hand out, how many of the greatest German writers, the ones who altered the language in a notable way, the ones who changed the way the culture thinks about itself, the ones who had enduring popularity for multiple centuries, have non-German speakers encountered on a daily basis? How many Japanese? Russian? Spanish? Yes, they come up occasionally, sometimes even when we'd least expect, but they're just "little blips" as you dismissively put it. I'd argue that Shakespeare is one of the greatest writers in English, just as they are the greatest in their languages/cultures.
I do wonder how much of Shakespeare's influence stems solely from his writing and how much is from British colonization of large parts of the world (some of those colonies becoming powerful countries in their own right)?? I mean; I'm pretty sure the main reason I am speaking English and not say French or German (none of these languages is my first language btw.) is because of how widespread and influential the English language became due to the British Empire.
Now, I'm not trying to dismiss or deny Shakespeare and his work's influence on modern (especially Western) culture. That should be fairly apparent. Although where I'm from, we aren't being exposed to him as much as I reckon English speaking nations are.
No, I am merely wondering if his massive influence is partly due to the spread of British/English culture and language in the past five centuries or so, which, naturally, should have brought English litterature with it too.
If China f.ex had been the one to develop into an empire on such a massive scale as Britain did, would we have been more familiar with great Chinese authors, poets and playwrights than the British ones like Shakespeare??
I wish you'd do more Shakespeare throughout the summer.
0:17 Whaaa, no video on Julius Caesar, and possibly the history of putting modern figures in Shakespeare plays? But right now those two things are pretty relevant and worth discussing
+DwRockett Patience...
It seems all too likely that we'll have another three seasons of shakespeare to draw connections against an angry cheeto man. And even if we don't, ain't no reason not to do it anyways.
*ehem* YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Can I have more Kyle/Rantasmo crossovers??
I always assumed he just used trochee for supernatural characters, iambs for nobility, and blank for commoners.
'Antony & Cleopatra' features an interesting reference to the all male casts. Cleopatra talks about how they will be represented in the future and complains "Antony Shall be brought drunken forth, and I shall see / Some squeaking Cleopatra boy my greatness / I’ th’ posture of a whore." (V.ii.210-217) which can be seen as a humorous allusion to the fact that a boy would have been playing her at the time.
chris marlowe pops up from his grave, clutching a copy of Edward II
Just saw Glenda Jackson in King Lear. By no means am I a Shakespearean scholar, but I was thinking about this subject after seeing the production. Your analysis was very educational and entertaining.
Speaking of Puck, any plans to one day review the black and white A Midsummers night dream? Where a young Mickey Rooney played Puck?
I'm surprised people try to see Shakespeare and his work as 100 per cent gay. Even as a little girl, and without knowing anything about gay people, I knew that Antonio had more than just friendly affection for Sebastian in Twelfth Night.
And ever since then I've read Shakespeare with the lens thay while it wasn't DEFINITELY gay, the possibility was there
The point about Shakespeare repeatedly writing queer relationships only to resolve them in heteronormative ways really struck a chord with me.
I've written before about how Homestuck borrows a lot of its form and structure from Shakespeare ( here's that, I guess? ruclips.net/video/hWhh5f4GgXQ/видео.html&ab_channel=optimisticDuelist ) , but Andrew's clear influence from Shakespeare puts his relationship writing in a pretty interesting context.
Because I'm almost inclined to see Homestuck as a deliberate inversion of Shakespeare's approach. Instead of queerness being the obstacle to happiness, heterosexuality is. Straight relationships all fail in Homestuck, or in some cases never come into fruition at all. Every canon endgame relationship is some shade of queer.
Queer relationships, in contrast, are presented as an escape into apotheosis and true honesty. The clearest example of this is the relationship between Jade and Davesprite, where Davesprite's myriad issues--those that led to their break up--are solved completely by his union with Nepeta, an act which simultaneously renders Davesprite (now Davepeta) explicitly nonbinary, and thus their relationship with Jade no longer straight.
And now I have to look up all the movies used in this vid
I'd honestly be okay if you just made exclusively Shakespeare videos forever
still want to see a between the lines about magick. please go all out too.