Repertoire: The BEST (and Less Best) Elgar Violin Concerto
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2023
- Elgar's Violin Concerto is one of the summits of the romantic repertoire, a work of huge expressive range and expansive length (around 50 minutes, as often as not). This video, which takes us through more than two dozen recordings, is in fact as long as the concerto! Sorry!
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Awesome! Please continue this "the Best" series on a regular basis, David. It's still my favorite.
I second this! I always enjoy these
Same here! Please Dave. I suggest the remaining Symphonies by RVW.
Yes! And even though he has already made hundreds of these repertoire talks, there are still so many pieces to cover, even from the standard repertoire. I'm still expecting a talk on the best recordings of Tchaikovsky's 5th symphony, for instance.
I agree!
@@MisterPathetique bingo
Thank you Dave. You’re the music prof I wish I’d had 45 years ago when I was in music school. 🙏🏽
Your survey of the Elgar Violin Concerto is GREAT and much needed! Loved it! Your comparison of the final cadenza with the final cadenza of the Dvorak Cello was brilliant! I had never thought of that, but you’re right. I adore the Dvorak and have a lot of versions, but I’ve not ever been as keen about the Elgar. You have inspired me to get a better version. I think I have the first Kennedy, but I’m going to get either the Perlman, Hahn or Ehnes. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Great to see you revisiting your "Best Of . . ." series (gives me hope that the Members Only "Ten Greatest Recordings Of . . ." series will reappear too). In any case, I was so pleased with today's video, and really pleased to see Chung's Elgar get a thumbs up from you. There are plenty of wonderful performances of the work, but that "sensuous" quality you point out really puts her on the map for me. A lovely reading. And your comments about the proprietary hold of British conductors on Elgar got me thinking about how it always struck me as odd that Barbirolli, such a consummate Elgarian and with such a vast Elgar discography, never recorded the Violin Concerto. He certainly performed it (often with Heifetz, as he did in his first full NY Phil season). His biographer Michael Kennedy supplies a reason: "He was constantly looking for a violinist for the concerto to match Kreisler, whom he heard play it, and Sammons. He thought the true tragedy of the music was missing from Heifetz's technically superb performance." Barbirolli's own assessment came in a letter after their NY performance in '37: "He plays it really wonderfully, though not perhaps with quite enough 'hurt'; I wonder if he has ever been wounded." Interesting observation. And thanks again for this long and inspiring review. I'm off to check out a couple of these performances I don't know.
Don't worry, it's coming.
Thanks Dave - I too love the Znaider performance. People might be interested to know that the violin he plays on for this recording was the very violin that Kreisler used in the 1910 premiere: the 1741 "Kreisler" Guarnerius del Gesu. As Znaider writes in the booklet, "its sonority better suits the Elgar Violin Concerto than both Guarnerius and Elgar could have ever imagined".
I went through some trouble to get my hands on this one, but was rather disappointed that it didn't suit my taste, felt like it was a little too sappy and even self-indulgent at times.
That's no fault of Znaider of course. I heard him live just after he won the QE competition at the height of his prowess and he was absolutely imposing both in terms of his physical/stage presence and music-making. He absolutely dominated the violin to do his bidding and the sound was so powerful I was afraid the violin would break!
This is a real treat. Many many thanks for this!
My pleasure!
I have to say that I appreciate not only your vast knowledge and appreciation of the recordings of a particular piece but also your understanding of the music itself , all powered by a seemingly infinite reservoir of energy and humour ... thank you !
Yessss! I've been waiting for this one. One of the greatest, indeed.
Really enjoyed this chat Dave, it flew by. Thanks for sharing your passion and knowledge with us. Cheers from Canada.
This is one of my favorite videos of yours for a long time. Really thorough. Luckily I have several of these. Nicely done.
Without doubt, Benedetti's rendition is the best thing she has done on disc. I loved it on first hearing and still love it. The Decca Engineers did a great job as well.
Many thanks. Length of review = length of concerto. Uncanny.
Whew! That was exhausting. A video the same length as the piece! Nice to know there are some good Elgar renditions out there that I haven't heard.
I mentioned before in some other context that the Elgar Violin Concerto is remarkable in part because it is receptive to such diverse approaches - Menhuin/Elgar and Heifetz/Sargent sound miles and miles apart from each other, but the piece works wonderfully both ways.
I heard Kyung-Wha Chung do it live in Cincinnati in the early 1980s with Gielen (I think). She danced around the stage and grimaced so much I had to close my eyes. But as long as my eyes stayed shut, it was tremendous. It think her Elgar is one of her finest recordings.
One of the great musical experiences of my musical life was playing 1st violin with the Birmingham Philharmonic [sic] in Jan 1980 when Ralph Holmes performed this concerto with us. I was blown away.
Hearing soloists in rehearsal tells you a great deal about their approach to music-making, and Ralph was amazing in the way he accommodated an amateur orchestra while delivering a masterly performance.
His early death 4 years later at the age of just 47 was a great loss. I still have not found a recording that surpasses what is in my memory of that magical event.
A truly great talk about a great work. This is real information. Then, I heard Ida Haendel play the Elgar Concerto in the Concertgebouw in the 80ties and she was fabulous. I was present at a rehearsal and at a moment Haendel wasn't pleased with the conductor's tempo. At a certain moment, after some arguing, she took his baton and started conducting the orchestra the way she thought it had to be done. Haendel was 100% in charge.
Just discovered this channel. Just subscribed
Greetings from 🇲🇽 Mexico
Thank you, and welcome!
A great survey Dave, and don't worry about it being of long duration, as this only provides welcome evidence of your devoted and rigorous thought processes in determining what you want to say, and that is what matters! Another contender for me in the "best" category would include the Catherine Manoukian (violin)/Staatskapelle Weimar/Stefan Solyom recording on Berlin Classics. Miss Manoukian plays superbly and the orchestral accompaniment evinces similar qualities to that of the (nearby-ish) Staatskapelle Dresden, so fine is their playing. And not an English person in sight, ha, ha! (unless they're playing in the orchestra, that is...).
Wonderful survey! Some nice surprises too.
So glad you mentioned the extraordinary Heifetz recording with Sargent. That was the first recording of the Elgar that I had and remained the only one for about 20 years, but for the following 20 years it slumbered on my LP shelf. I took it out and played it a dozen times after your video reminded me of it. It really is astonishingly beautiful. I don't know what the British old boy network had to say about it, but there has always been a Heifetz following in Britain - and we have ears.
What a wonderful post! Thank you. Delighted you are so enthusiastic about the Campoli recording, we don't hear enough about him these days - a truly fabulous violinist!. There is a video of Joseph Silverstein performing the concerto with Colin Davis conducting which every time I watch it makes me wish they had made a studio recording as well.
A new repertoire video! Yesss! I know these are time consuming to put together, so many thanks for the effort. Especially when it's a piece I love this much.
Just wanted to mention a couple that didn't make the cut: Kyoko Takezawa (also, like the Znaider recording, with Colin Davis conducting a German orchestra (SOBR) on RCA) and Tasmin Little (also with Andrew Davis). It's been a minute since I've heard either (especially the Takezawa), but I remember very much enjoying both. It's actually pretty remarkable just how many recordings this work has had.
Yes, they are both lovely, but not better than a dozen or two of the performances cited. I just had to draw the line somewhere. It is remarkable how this concerto has taken off on disc.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I actually saw Znaider and Colin Davis do this with the NYPO around the time their recording came out. Still the only time I've gotten to see this live, but what a thrill it was! I suspect you may have been at Lincoln Center that night, too.
Sadly, no, I missed it.
Thanks Dave for a truly comprehensive survey! For better sonics, the Campoli has also appeared on Eloquence , Belart and Beulah labels, all sounding less fuzzy.
I have not heard Perlman do this and I must listen to it, after all, he is probably the greatest alive as I can never find anyone better when it comes down to it. Heifetz is my preferred performer, in spite of his speed as he is always able to interpret at the speed he plays works. The veiled cadenza is so special. It's ethereal. Just one of the greatest moments of violin playing one could possibly hear. I sat in the front row of the Albert Hall in June 1949 to hear Heifetz perform the work with Sargent.
Another classic survey (perhaps we need a “top 25 Dave Hurwitz Reviews” video). Might I add a quick shout out for Tasmin Little with Andrew Davis and the Royal Scottish National Orchestra. on Chandos? This includes the alternative cadenza which Elgar wrote for the 1916 recording by Marie Hall. Little had lived with the work for decades before committing it to disc, Davis is an experienced hand and the result is predictably splendid though a number of critics seem to think it a “near miss”. Worth a listen certainly
Keep them coming Dave - the best thing on RUclips.
Just yesterday I was watching a broadcast of Paavo Jarvi and the Estonian National Symphony (just because I’m studying in Estonia from next month) doing the Elgar violin concerto and was curious about your choices of the best recordings, so what a timing! Really enjoy these repertoire talks😊
Thank You for the long review , Colin Davis did also record the concerto with Kyoko Takezawa,
Her phrasing is smoother than Znaider and has more variety than Hahn, but maybe out of print. Sir Colin is more intense than Barenboim, imo.
Yes! My favourite recording, alongside her outstanding Barber Concerto recording.
It was in Davis' complete RCA Legacy, if that's still available.
The two recordings by Russians are by Igor Oistrakh and Gidon Kremer. Both are worth a listen.
I was glued to my PC monitor watching this, in complete agreement about Campoli a truly scintillating player. Pitty Milstein didn't play the Elgar mind.
Thanks. I didn't realise there were so many recordings. I loved your take on 'Kennedy'. I think he may have shortened his name to emulate 'Heifitz'. He is a very good example of a soloist who has prematurely faded. I agree that the first Kennedy Elgar performance is very beautiful and, as with Menuhin, quite remarkable given his youth.
Another classic survey (perhaps we need a “top 25 Dave Hurwitz Reviews” video). Might I add a quick shout out for Tasmin Little with Andrew Davis and the Royal Scottish National Orchestra. on Chandos? This includes the alternative cadenza which Elgar wrote for the 1916 recording by Marie Hall. Little had lived with the work for decades before committing it to disc and the result is predictably splendid though a number of critics seem to think it a “near miss”. Keep them coming Dave!
As with all repertoire talks, it was a very enjoyable listen. Thank you!
In one respect, unfortunately, it didn't work out for me. I was hoping that it would go some way towards eliminating my Elgar blind (deaf) spot, by recommending a better concerto version than the one I already have. Imagine my disappointment when the "However!" version (no spoiler!) turned out to be that very one. Drat.
Same goes for much of Vaughan Williams, TBH. Living in the UK, these are character defects I'll need to work on. Dedicated counselling now actively sought.
I’m curious about your thoughts on the recent one by M. Barenboim/Crudele on Linn😉
Came back to this post having seen Frank Peter Zimmerman play the Elgar concerto last night at the Concertgebouw. He was sensational! I'm still shaking from the power of his performance. He's not recorded the piece, yet I wonder if a recording is on it's way as he's touring it all over the place at the moment, and in an interview he gave last year he acknowledges the fact that he hasn't recorded it..... 'not yet!' Here's hoping!
Shaham and Zinman play the Elgar with the Berlin Philharmonic, available in the BPO Concert Hall. (Just spotted this).
I love the Albert Sammons recording.
No concern about the length; some of your presentations NEED the "expansion". I enjoy the thorough, comprehensive format, mixed in with shorter, "incidental" episodes. LR
Hello, Dave. Since the subject is Elgar, I would like you to help me with a question, please: I know you made a video about Elgar's second symphony, but did you also made a video about his first symphony? I seem to remember this, which makes me wonder if the video has been deleted, or if this is a false memory of mine. Cheers.
No, I haven't done it yet.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I'm betting there's a long line of us waiting for THAT review!
@@tom6693 But I think we all know what the final verdict will be.
@@ThreadBomb Probably. Dave has called Barbirolli's Philharmonia Elgar 1 a reference recording on a couple of occasions, so I'm expecting that to appear. It's certainly always been my top choice.
I got that Slatkin box some time ago, and to be honest I thought the sound lacked richness compared with other recordings.
The sound is excellent.
Hello Dave! Did you listen to the Elgar VC with Irnberger (Royal Phil., Judd) on Gramola? If so, what are your thoughts?
I did not.
It's hard to know how much the timings on pre-magnetic tape/LP recordings reflect the 4-minute time limitations of a 12" master disc.
Judging from Elgar's own recording, not at all.
Thanks David for such a wide-ranging review of this marvellous work. I wanted to add another to the mix, Dmitri Sitkovetsky conducted by a certain Yehudi Menuhin leading the RPO. There's a special dialogue between soloist and conductor in this performance. Sitkovetsky piles on the emotion in the last movement, and at times it's heart-breaking. BBC Radio3 did their Building a Library on the Elgar recently and guess what?! Our Nigel with Sir Simon was the first choice of David Owen Norris. (Norris sounds like a character from a PG Wodehouse novel). Like you I prefer the swifter Heifetz tempi though I feel he's in too much of a hurry go get through the cadenza.
I heard Gil Shaham play it in London at the Festival Hall in 2004 with Zinman / Philharmonia. The performance left a profound impact on all of us there. He put a big heart and soul into the performance, and bossed the tricky bits with the virtuosity of a Heifetz. What a fiddler!
I dislike Nigel Kennedy, both as a person and as a musician, and I'm not too keen on Rattle either, but I have to admit that their recording of the Elgar concerto is my favourite. I'm also very fond of Ida Haendel's recording with Rattle on Testament, which is a good deal quicker than her version with Boult. The Radio 3 Record Review programme (or whatever it's called these days) can sound dangerously close to self-parody sometimes. Maybe they could Invite Mr Hurwitz to do an episode of Building a Library to liven things up a bit.
@@bikerpaul68 Dave on the BBC would be brilliant especially reviewing British music.
'...the piece really does require two people, two characters to interact with each other...' Absolutely! A very illuminating comment. It's what makes a great performance of this piece and distinguishes it from the merely 'good' performance. As always, I learnt a lot from this video and I shall go away with a list of recordings to explore further. Only wish you had time to play a few illustrative passages (as you usually do). But I guess if you are reviewing 20 plus recordings that's a lot to ask.
And I can't play anything from labels that will subject me to copyright claims (like all the "majors" and many of the "indies"). It's impossible.
@@DavesClassicalGuide 😭I forgot. How petty of the big labels. You probably do more to sell recordings than all their marketing staff combined. Please keep up your great work.
@@paul-francislaw9774 petty and unbelievably stupid. Only in the music business would you find firms actually fighting against product exposure!
Heifetz sent Sammons a letter thanking him for his recording, saying it gave him the understanding of how the piece should go.
With Elgar, speed and clarity do matter. Most of his music threatens to sound like Lloyd-Webber without the tunes.
I really miss these repertoire chats! I’ve listened to this concerto a couple times and it never made any sense to me, so thanks so much for this, can’t wait to listen to it with fresh ears. I’m a huge fan of Shaham and Zinman and had no idea they’d recorded it together.
Can’t wait to hear more repertoire chats, I’m guessing these were put on hold with the move, I would love to hear individual discussions of more Schubert Symphonies…and I’m resubmitting my request for a video on the Franz Schmidt Das Buch mit Sieben Siegeln.
Thanks again Dave!!!!!
It meanders WAY too much for me, too, and I've had recordings of it for 50 years. May the rest of y'all enjoy it!
Really enjoyed this review. However, how in the demons of Gerontius did Tasmin Little/ Davis and the Royal Scottish National Orchestra on Chandos not even bare a mention?
She's in the follow up. And after all those recordings, it's really easy not to mention that one.
In another of your reviews not so long time ago you put the Handel version on top of your preferences. Why did you change your mind?
Which review was that?
@@DavesClassicalGuide the ideal XXth century violin concertos. In your written description you mentioned as a wonderful coupling her Elgar and britten concertos. Anyway, I beg your pardon because in that video your choice went to Hugh Bean
Heifetz and Sargent did seemingly even faster live with the NBC Symphony. But only seemingly because they made cuts in the last two movements.
With regard to Ida Haendel and the pace with which she plays the Elgar concerto, her recording of Alan Petterson’s 2nd Violin Concerto not only lasts a full 55 minutes but is played in a single movement! I have great respect for both Petterson and Haendel, but in all the years I’ve owned this recording I’ve been willing and able to listen to it only twice (so far). Cheers!
Hello Dave, I am enjoying very much your videos laced with your incisive comments, and inimitable sense of humour. I adore the Elgar Concerto. For me, it is the greatest Romantic violin concerto, far superior to the Tchaikovsky and the Sibelius. ( The Sibelius has a marvellous first movement, but a not very memorable slow movement, and while the finale has some great moments it always seems too short and modulates to the major far too soon. The Brahms is Classical/Romantic, but definitely not out and out Romantic.)
Your recommendations set me off on an Elgar violin concerto performance crawl, or is it trawl? In the end I still have to give the laurel wreath to the 1932 recording with the sixteen year old soloist, Menuhin, and the seventy five year old composer and conductor, Elgar. There is an unmatched purity of tone, intonation and phrasing in Menuhin's playing and Elgar's conducting is unequaled in its sympathy and eloquence and he achieves fine ensemble. Menuhin is so musical and his intentions so clear that it must have been a pleasure for Elgar to accompany.
It's a mystery why Kreiser did not record the work. The story is that he was unhappy with Elgar's conducting. But surely he could have recorded it with another conductor? The very first recording of 1929 with soloist Albert Sammons, has Henry Wood conducting. My take is that Kreisler didn't really like the work at heart and, perhaps, his playing was so erratic and difficult to follow that it would have taxed the powers of any conductor.
Ironically, I find the 1930s 'sonics' which you dislike so much Dave, to be the default excellence of the recording. The slightly distant orchestra, especially woodwind, brass and timpani, creates a beautiful balance where the soloist is always clearly heard and never overwhelmed. This is something which I find happens in some more modern recordings. For a boy of sixteen, Menuhin's interpretation and understanding of such a huge and complex work, is truly astonishing. In short, the Menuhin/Elgar recording is a miracle. After more than ninety years it has never been out of circulation and deservedly so. I don't think it ever will be. Your videos and podcasts are a valuable source of information, so please Dave, keep up the good work!
I'm glad you like the Elgar, but why must it be at the expense of Tchaikovsky and Sibelius? This isn't a zero-sum game, after all. It's fine to have a favorite, but it doesn't have to come at someone else's expense. For me, anyway, the joy in this is learning to love the widest variety of music (and then criticizing the hell out of performances of it)!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Hello Dave, I love and admire the music of Tchaikovsky, Sebelius and Elgar, including their respective Violin Concertos. There is no contradiction in expressing my opinion that the Elgar is the greatest work of the three. Here is an idea. In addition to your video - Eight Remarkable Discs of French Women Composers - perhaps you would make another video devoted to music written by female composers of other nationalities. Every best wish for 2024.
Joseph Silverstein did this on Evening at Symphony with Colin Davis in the 1970's, available on youtube-as hot as ever.
An Elgar Cello Concerto list , please?
A BBC game show panel member referred to him as " that fabulous Spanish composer, ' El Gar'. But of course.
Sorry, no. I don't care for the piece.
@@DavesClassicalGuideplease elaborate sir
The first recording was by a woman, Marie Hall. It's badly cut, but fascinating. Elgar conducted. Incidentally, she studied violin with Elgar for a year when she was very young.
It's Elgar's own abridged version that she plays, he managed to reduce it down to around 16 minutes long so it could fit on 4 sides, and yet he somehow keeps the emotional essence of the piece intact. It's most certainly worth a listen, she plays very well , and with Elgar conducting it's a significant historical recording. I think the cadenza was recorded on a separate side apart from the rest of the concerto? And Elgar wrote a harp part to replace the pizzicato strings due to balance issues in the recording process. I'm not sure if it was the first recording though. Albert Sammonds also recorded an abridged version in 1916, and I think his recording came first, though I might be wrong about that.
So is Elgar well known in the U.S? i'm surprised to be honest.What about Vaughan Williams?
Yes and yes.
@@DavesClassicalGuidethank you thats made my day
The cello concerto coming up next?🙏🙏🙏
No. I don't care for it.
You used the word "lengthy". Agreed: It goes on and on and on and on.
Excellent extensive review! In my days only ones available were Perlman, Chung, Accardo, Kennedy and the historical recordings by Heifetz and Menuhin whose squeaky violin tone l can't stand. Igor Oistrakh and Takezawa play the concerto beautifully with warmly expressive tone. Too much characters from violinist often ruins this wonderful work.
David - Question: is the Elgar violin concerto and the Elgar Cello Concerto one and the same piece? Please set me straight!
They are totally different works. The Violin Concerto comes from his full maturity in the first decade of the 20th century, the Cello Concerto from the end of his career a couple of decades later.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you! I know the Cello Concerto well, so I need to study the Violin Concerto. I Think I heard Pearlman play it in London at Royal Festival Hall years ago but sad to say I don't remember it!
As an newbie to classical music, I'm constantly asking myself just how many of these I really need.
I've got the Perlman/Barenboim, Barton Pine/Litton, Menuhin/Boult on BBCLive, as well as the Hahn and Chung...
That's plenty.
Trying to get the penny to drop I’ve accumulated recordings by Sammons, Kennedy (Handley), Ehnes and Zukerman/Barenboim, but with the exception of the andante the work still fails to convince. My loss, I know. The Zukerman almost does it, the coordination between soloist and orchestra is stunning. Anyone interested in that performance might look for the lp. My system is allergic to strident violins and I find the vinyl totally acceptable. Not the greatest sound (Columbia recordings never were) but there’s no sign of the glare that David describes on the cd.
With all due respect, if the you aren't convinced by the work, don't make recommendations to others. Of course you should feel free to comment, but you're hardly in a position to give advice.
I totally agree, if you can’t appreciate a work, don’t offer opinions. Which I didn’t, aside from praising the coordination between soloist and conductor on the Zukerman/Barenboim recording. My sole aim was to point out that if the Sony transfer sounds poor, that’s not the case with the original lp, which I own. You surely agree that not every analogue to digital transfer has been successful. I own many cds that sound far better than the original vinyl, but a few that have gone the other way.
If no one's mentioned this before, fwiw, Hugh Bean was a protege of Albert Sammons.
Strangely, I was totally by bowled over by Hilary Hahn's Mendelssohn's concerto but massively underwhelmed by her version of the Elgar. Nothing to do with technique.
Lol you are not sorry that the Simon Rattle version failed to hit the mark, knowing your previous aversions😉
I'm always sorry when a performance doesn't measure up.
There are no comments that will get David "Rattled".
‘The British press had an orgasm over this one… as far as I know they still are…’ Dave Hurwitz I salute you! 😂 Btw I adore the first Nigel Kennedy recording too!