"Looks like I need to work on covering my 'tracks', eh, detective? But enough talk! It's time for you to choo-choose who lives, and who dies!" "Choo-chew on this!"
But in this instance, the deaths stop, either momentarily, or in the best guesses, until the next big bang, and a few eras, until the creation of Trains in the modern from, continuing the process eitherway
_"Don't feed the troll,"_ they say. _"It's the zoo's problem,"_ they thought. To which I added _"-experiment,"_ much to their confusion, as I stare at a certain wall.
I just love how they turned the trolley problem's drawing into a classic action scene of a fight on top of a moving train going through a beautiful mountainous vista
What if you want to go to heaven but Troll Ex Machinator said _"Everyone on this track deserve it _*_way_*_ more than I will ever do"_ before he's off, and he's right.
No matter if you try to stop the problem from happening or not answer it.. you are always partaking in the trolley problem. [dramatic action movie trailer sound]
@@SidneyPatrickson not if i put myself the trolly problem and a vat of poison in a box no one can observe then there is no telling if i am partaking or not.
It actually wouldn't surprise me if the person tied to the alternate track in the original problem really IS the one who tied up the other five, taking advantage of the lever puller's questionable morality to prevent them from saving the victims.
To be fair, the trolley problem is about choosing between equally innocent people. The issue is “what matters more to you, the number of people spared or you personally not causing deaths through your action”. This situation is directing violence as a deterrent to future suffering; you are determining that an individual who willingly causes death for others cannot be allowed to exist in a society, which is different.
The answer is NO. And you cannot make me feel bad for either outcome. You can't put the blame on me, no matter how hard you try. I've already made up my mind, and you CANNOT force me into this false dichotomy!
The trolly problem isn't useful. No matter how much you say "No-one is around to see you push the fatman/Pull the lever" everyone has the conscious and unconscious fear of the societal consequences of killing. We live in a surveillance state where either the police or that fatman's relatives will go after you inevitably once one of the tied up people or a bystander rats you out for saving those people. 99% of people would not push the fatman out of fear of beign persecuted. People won't even stand up for each other on the train in minor confrontations with train thugs.
@@atomicgandhi8718 Yeah, it has the clear flaw that all hypotheticals have. They try to test what you value, but don’t take the complexity of reality into account. I think they have a purpose, but they only work to illustrate rather than working as some ultimate test
This was never about finding a solution to the trolley problem. This was personal; after years and years of anguish and teasing questions, I no longer cared what the solution might be. I just wanted it to end.
@@realdragonwhy and also I realised it doesn't work aswell because the point of trolley is you being forced to committ evil and technically killing a guilty person isn't evil because it stops from doing so but due that being in ingorance of individuals multiple leveled traits in their character it usually isn't. Still the point is your gonna kill an innocent person so which one is less worse to you?
@@alexcat6685 Because I don't want to "disappear under mysterious circumstances", same reason why I wouldn't snitch on mafia. The witnesses might not show up in court
@@realdragon You're killing the Mastermind behind it all, nobody ELSE is gonna make you disappear since the one that's calling the shots would be dead.
@@nickcalderon2637 You would throw yourself at serial killer? Not just any any serial killer but very intelligent one who got away with this for so long
The Trolly was never the Problem The Problem was never the Trolly The Problem was always the Problem The Trolly was always the Trolly The Answer is to reload your save and only choose the funny dialogue options
But for this dialogue tree you need to have a Tungsten-Cubemancer in your party, but at the moment all I have found is an Archaeologist and a Dinosauruses Ranger. And before you tell me about the respec menu, I haven't beaten Diabolic Dragon yet.
@@overforest1195 If you're still stuck on the Diabolic Dragon, maybe try getting the D̵̡̡̞̹̘̬̞̻̰̄̿͒̾̈́̉̄̚̕͜͜͜͝a̴̡͖̭̗̗̤͔̙̝̔̽̈̽͐̐͌͛̑͊̑u̶̫͚͎̬̦͆̑͜ģ̴̥͚̩̫̝̤͎̳̦̙̥͙̑̽̏̈́̎͜͝ḩ̷̲̥͖͔̗͚̝̱̀̓̀̊̾̋̌͘͠t̵͚͙͓̝̻̬͇͈̀̉̈́͋͑͂̉̿ͅe̵̫̫̙͉̼͔̺̚r̸̳̃̅̈́̔̆̂́̀͐̚͝͝ in your party. She's a pain the ass to manage, but she's strong in combat. Once you beat the Diabolic Dragon, SURE you respec into the things that let you either dump her, or manage her for the rest of the game.
Step 1: Flip the lever directing the trolley to the singular person Step 2: Use the time you would've spent pondering the choice, to untie the singular person Step 3: With that person's help, you can now take your time untying the rest. You have successfully used the ponderer's loophole to solve the trolley problem.
Yes, but the "self defense" is still a murder. Even worse, in this case, you could've acted without involving a death of one person; incarcerating them, incapacitating all 4 limbs, inducing them persistent vegetative state, or any other means that basically neutralizes them without taking their life. /s Speaking of which, does rendering a person into persistent vegetative state count as a murder (in a trolly problem point-of-view)?
@@arduous222 depends if they're braindead, I remember hearing of a story where a couple scientists tried to communicate with a vegetative person by scanning their brain while they asked him questions; to say yes, he had to think about playing tennis(because the guy liked playing tennis), I forgot what he had to think to say no.
@@Protontit would count as murder only if the guy died later while in said comma, so unless he wakes up somehow then yes he would be charged with murder
OBJECTION! Respondent is ignoring distinction between an innocent party and a responsible one! The two problems are thus not comparable. Your Honor, I move to dismiss this false charge.
@joda7697 I think he's trying to say that the person tying people to train tracks is personally responsible for these deaths, whereas the single person we can choose to kill in the trolly problem is just an unfortunate innocent victim who dies as a result of trying to save many other innocent victims if we choose to do something. Whether we are also responsible for the deaths caused by this insane trolley man to some degree is another matter entirely (and is the entire point of the trolley problem itself, whether we're responsible for standing by and doing nothing or if we're only responsible for the deaths we directly cause to save others). The dilemma here is more akin to the morality of the death penalty.
This causes your character to have a mental breakdown because the trolley problem seems inescapable and inevitable, and eventually they become the new person who ties people to trolley tracks, thus giving you the bad ending. To get the good ending to Theory Game Zero: Track of Fate, you must instead turn the villain over to the police, who will arrest them. With no deaths on hand, the trolley problem loop is finally broken, and the world rests easier at night, without fear of being tied to trolley tracks. However, it is implied that this leads straight into Theory Game 2: The Prisoners' Dilemma, which means there are more villains afoot forcing people into various moral dilemmas and game theory situations.
@@Dreamheart101 I'm pretty sure this comment is a parody of the Zero Escape series, which is pretty much what the comment sounds like, but on coke and with a dozen other philosophical experiments and also time travel
Sorry, after solving the prisoner’s dilemma to sail away on you ship of Theseus but you slowly replace the planks 1 by 1 until it has non of it’s original planks, is it really the ship of Theseus? To get more places to fix it you have to time travel but when you get the planks you kill your grandpa for the planks causing the grandfather paradox, however super fast police are chasing you but you have a 10 meter lead but they run 10 times faster and you create the Achilles and the Tortoise paradox, whoops.
Part of the whole point of the trolley problem is that you can't use the character of any individual victim to judge since you don't know the any of the victims, so you have to base your decision purely off of the value of a human life. However in this case, you know for a fact that the one who tied them to the tracks is a murderer, you know about his character and can account it into your decision, and thus this is no longer the original trolley problem.
Saying that adding variations to the trolley problem defeats the purpose of the trolley problem is a bit asinine. As if philosophers haven't been doing that for centuries.
@@dennischiu272 "What if we could prevent people from being tied to tracks" isn't really a variation of the problem, but a way to not have the problem in the first place.
@@dennischiu272 You implied that the solution in the video, which is to not have people tied to tracks in the first place, is a variation of the trolley problem, which it is not. The fat villain is what happens when someone tries to construct a perverse example that is divorced from reality, but really wants to call it a trolley problem
@@OWnIshiiTrolling The fat villain is a perfectly legitimate extension of the trolley problem. Stop fake gatekeeping something that you know is on Wikipedia. Why do you keep trying to argue that "don't have people tied to the tracks" isn't the trolley problem? You watched the video and understand no one is saying or implying it is. Arguing using strawmen is weird.
@@punbug4721 (As the crumpled fraction of a man falls to their nature-dug grave, streaking the sky in red as unwillingly tumble through the air at breakneck speeds, they begin to speak.) ”I cast… *DESTINY BOND.”* (Now you must either save this soon-to-be paste and sludge of a man, or, by psychic link, join him in the place where souls depart. What do you choose, *hero?)*
@@punbug4721 (As the crumpled fraction of a man falls to their nature-dug grave, streaking the sky in red as unwillingly tumble through the air at breakneck speeds, they begin to speak.) ”I cast… *DESTINY BOND.”* (Now you must either save this soon-to-be paste and sludge of a man, or, by psychic link, join him in the place where souls depart. What do you choose, *hero?)*
@@punbug4721 (As the fraction of a man falls to their nature-dug grave, streaking the sky in red as unwillingly tumble through the air at breakneck speeds, they begin to speak.) ”I cast… *DESTINY BOND.”* (Now you must either save this soon-to-be paste and sludge of a man, or, by psychic link, join him in the place where souls depart. What do you choose, *hero?)*
it is important to note, that though the scenario in this video, and the scenario in the traditional trolley problem are quite similar in this scenerio, your killing the few who performed an evil act to save the many that they would've killed where as in the traditional trolly problem you dont have that context in choosing to kill the few vs the many
What if the person who came up with the trolley problem went back in time to kill their former self and prevent the trolley problem in the first place, thus invoking the trolley problem AND a time travel paradox?
"Ever heard of the trolley problem? Well, you're the problem, and I'M THE TROLLEY!" - That guy right before beating the shtuffing out of the trolley maniac
ENOUGH ALREADY! You throw the switch halfway, thereby derailing the trolley, and saving everyone. Trolleys don't go very fast, so any passengers on board will, at worst, suffer bumps and bruises. I hope this helps.
But what if its a trolley coming down hill and was not able to slow down because brakes a broken? If you put it half way, you will kill all the passengers on the train. So what is you choice now
There's no indication that the people on the tracks were removed or the trolley diverted, so as far as I'm concerned, he let people on the tracks die and killed the guy that put them there.
As a person who pulled the lever in the original question to save 4 people, *HELP ME!!!* the railway department is still searching for me for causing a major railway accident and causing 28 deaths.
esoomris presents a false equivalency to the trolly problem. It is evident that the anaology aims to equate the innocent tied to the left side of the track to the killer, however there is an important distinction to make here, that being that one of these people is innocent, and the other is not. The question of, "Would you take the life of a murderer to save his victims?" is a much simpler dilemma than the question of, "Would you take the life of an innocent to save more innocent lives?" and the former is not the trolly problem.
Generally speaking, the trolley problem does not require that all victims are morally equivalent. If you read the original problem, it only specifies the exchange of one man's life for the lives of five. Killing a murderer to save his victims is called the Fat Villain variation of the trolley problem.
this one feels like it's borrowing a bit from the iterated prisoner's dilemma but STILL comes to the intuitive conclusion of the normal trolley problem
My favourite version of the trolley-problem is a "the emperor's new groove"-joke. Izma: "Pull the lever." Kronk: pulls the lever Izma: "WRONG LEVEEEEEEEEEEEER!"
The main difference here is that all the people tied to the tracks (as far as we know) were innocent in that scenario. The one person didn't tie the many nor the many the one person. Here you've explicitly killed a bad person The person who tied them all to the tracks.
Well, except that the one guy tied to the tracks in the original problem had nothing to do with causing the situation. Also, one may presume that killing the designer of the game was a last resort, and that capturing him was an option.
To be frank it's not the same since in the original trolley problem you all the potential victims are put into harm's way while here you're stopping a serial killer in the only way that ends the threat for good.
mc = main character uv = unamed villain UV: *cough cough* you did it... you beat me... but you still played my game! i won! MC: no, you didn't... i played your game yes, but i played it with my own rules... i made this trolley problem, not you... i played my own game UV: it wasn't your game! it- *cough* -was my game you remade! MC: is it? because the idea of killing one person to save more has existed long before you did. this isn't your game, you just made it popular, and i'm the one who beat it... UV: *cough cough* the victor is not- *cough cough cough* -victorious until- *coughing fit* -the vanquished has considered themselves thus... MC: then i guess neither of us win... looks like it's a tie... but this time it's not to the tracks... *MC beats UV to death with the lever, as the somber music swells MC stands up... as the camera pans towards the sky the credits roll. who won? or was it... a hogtie?*
I like how so many comments are imagining the trolley perpetrator as pulling out the ''but if you kill me, you'll be just as bad as i am!" card, when... no? you tied my buddy eric onto train-tracks my guy you are getting an ass-beating no matter what happens, it's more or less karma catching up instead of a ''we're not so different you and i'' situation. Or maybe you can say you out-trolley'd the problem.
And that’sss why the only sssolution to the trolley problem isss drawing ssso that the tracksss become one loop and then jumping onto the track yourssself.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
"Looks like I need to work on covering my 'tracks', eh, detective? But enough talk! It's time for you to choo-choose who lives, and who dies!"
"Choo-chew on this!"
I just shit myself.
I mean have you seen that: "I like trains" guy?
“Goddamnit! That hit like a train!”
Looks like I need to work on covering my "tracks", eh? Ha! Heh heh.
Not since the accident
'I used the trolley problem to destroy the trolley problem.'
You know what they say, gotta use trollies to make trollies
"Gone, reduced to atoms"
@@musicmanvincent3703 gone reduced to trolleys
@@orangecitrus8056 YES
"You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to *trolleys.* "
"You got me... But by killing me YOU STILL PLAYED MY GAME. I ALWAYS WIN"
-that guy probably
"I ALWAYS WIN"
- A dead man.
Saw and Edward Nigma in the corner: 😈
Well, this the condition where everyone wins. So I'm happy for you as I'm happy for myself and the potential victims
"Hey, VSauce! Michael here! By stopping me, you put an end to the trolley problem!
...Or did you?" 🎵 🎶
and then he does the really maniacal villain laugh before getting squished to a pulp by the train
Even in solving the trolley problem you've only fed it more
But in this instance, the deaths stop, either momentarily, or in the best guesses, until the next big bang, and a few eras, until the creation of Trains in the modern from, continuing the process eitherway
_"Don't feed the troll,"_ they say. _"It's the zoo's problem,"_ they thought. To which I added _"-experiment,"_ much to their confusion, as I stare at a certain wall.
The food was laced with lead, making it their final meal
Only for the time being.
The culprit was originally the one feeding it. But with him gone, the Trolley Problem will eventually starve to death.
you can’t kill an idea
I just love how they turned the trolley problem's drawing into a classic action scene of a fight on top of a moving train going through a beautiful mountainous vista
I mean, it's literally the final battle of Mission: Impossible - Dead Reckoning.
@@raidenthenctzenwithinsomni4961Also the train fight scene in Skyfall
@@raidenthenctzenwithinsomni4961also that part in mgrr
@@raidenthenctzenwithinsomni4961 I could think of a handful with a similar ending. And I've only watched a couple dozen movies myself
@@Ken_neThT I couldn't. That's why I first thought of Dead Reckoning first.
The trolley paradox.
What if you want to go to heaven but Troll Ex Machinator said _"Everyone on this track deserve it _*_way_*_ more than I will ever do"_ before he's off, and he's right.
It's not a paradox, it's not a problem, it's nothing.
No matter if you try to stop the problem from happening or not answer it.. you are always partaking in the trolley problem. [dramatic action movie trailer sound]
@@SidneyPatrickson not if i put myself the trolly problem and a vat of poison in a box no one can observe then there is no telling if i am partaking or not.
Wait right there-
How this is nothing, if we're discussing about it?
Doesn't this make it real?@@pleaseenteranamelol711
- Wait ? It´s all the trolley problem ???
- Always has been... **High speed train honk**
I like trains
@@Oyakinya-Izuki Yes, you do.
It's trolleys all the way down
@@Oyakinya-IzukiAsdfmovie
@@OntarioTrafficMan
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Glad that psychopath was stopped!
Muffet spotted
Omg it's Muffet :O
@@EEE-1409 indeed!
@@jc_art_ hey there~
@@nocturn9x Spiders are cool :D
It actually wouldn't surprise me if the person tied to the alternate track in the original problem really IS the one who tied up the other five, taking advantage of the lever puller's questionable morality to prevent them from saving the victims.
When Ex Machi(i)nator out-trolled Perry the Person's out-trolling.
“Would you like to play a game?”
It would make sense for the 5 people too be the evil ones seeing as the majority believe they would kill the one
Now that I think of it, I could see Joker put Batman in this situation
@@Pingviinimursuwould be so cool but batman would probably find a way to save everyone
"Prove thy morals. Do you think killing people is justified if it means preventing-"
"Yes"
*Chainsaw noises*
Depends
@@realdragonthe answer is always yes
@@quackduckquack So you would kill teenage who's about to steal candy from store
@@realdragonYes.
If that candy theft results in several deaths as the question implies, then yes.
Ah this raises the age old question: Is the trolley problem a philosophical query or an exercise in terrorism negotiations?
Why not both?
*The Negotiator:* ^^^
*The Negator:* We don't negotiate with (4th RUclips Censorship)! **Drops **_filtered_** on the train tracks**
@@ultimaxkom8728 had a stroke reading that
@@JJ_Pinger That's how RUclips works 🤷
"Ah yes, the negotiator."
To be fair, the trolley problem is about choosing between equally innocent people. The issue is “what matters more to you, the number of people spared or you personally not causing deaths through your action”. This situation is directing violence as a deterrent to future suffering; you are determining that an individual who willingly causes death for others cannot be allowed to exist in a society, which is different.
Looking for this, thanks! 100 percent correct assessment.
The answer is NO. And you cannot make me feel bad for either outcome. You can't put the blame on me, no matter how hard you try. I've already made up my mind, and you CANNOT force me into this false dichotomy!
@@TarsonTalonIf you're being genuine, that's called "closed-minded ignorance and frustration." If you're joking... it's not funny.
The trolly problem isn't useful.
No matter how much you say "No-one is around to see you push the fatman/Pull the lever" everyone has the conscious and unconscious fear of the societal consequences of killing.
We live in a surveillance state where either the police or that fatman's relatives will go after you inevitably once one of the tied up people or a bystander rats you out for saving those people.
99% of people would not push the fatman out of fear of beign persecuted.
People won't even stand up for each other on the train in minor confrontations with train thugs.
@@atomicgandhi8718 Yeah, it has the clear flaw that all hypotheticals have. They try to test what you value, but don’t take the complexity of reality into account. I think they have a purpose, but they only work to illustrate rather than working as some ultimate test
This was never about finding a solution to the trolley problem. This was personal; after years and years of anguish and teasing questions, I no longer cared what the solution might be. I just wanted it to end.
All relevant trolley and philosophy jokes aside, that's some beautiful scenery.
Can't wait for The Trolley Problem DLC. They are going to make it harder to beat the game.
Fuck. I just lost the game.
@@k1ng5urfer damn you
@@k1ng5urferGod damnit! I just keep losing
@@k1ng5urfer I LOST THE GAME
And they'll make the DLC so hard, someone silly gonna sue them for it.
_”To defeat ‘the trolley problem’ you must face it head on, as if you were on those tracks yourself.”_
- The Perpetrator (The Trolley Problem Movie)
"would you kill the evil mastermind responsible, or would you allow him to continue his schemes un-detected?"
I would allow his schemes un-dedected
@@realdragonwhy and also I realised it doesn't work aswell because the point of trolley is you being forced to committ evil and technically killing a guilty person isn't evil because it stops from doing so but due that being in ingorance of individuals multiple leveled traits in their character it usually isn't.
Still the point is your gonna kill an innocent person so which one is less worse to you?
@@alexcat6685 Because I don't want to "disappear under mysterious circumstances", same reason why I wouldn't snitch on mafia. The witnesses might not show up in court
@@realdragon You're killing the Mastermind behind it all, nobody ELSE is gonna make you disappear since the one that's calling the shots would be dead.
@@nickcalderon2637 You would throw yourself at serial killer? Not just any any serial killer but very intelligent one who got away with this for so long
The Trolly was never the Problem
The Problem was never the Trolly
The Problem was always the Problem
The Trolly was always the Trolly
The Answer is to reload your save and only choose the funny dialogue options
But for this dialogue tree you need to have a Tungsten-Cubemancer in your party, but at the moment all I have found is an Archaeologist and a Dinosauruses Ranger.
And before you tell me about the respec menu, I haven't beaten Diabolic Dragon yet.
@@overforest1195 first the Siivagunner video game, now the Jeaney Collects video game, sign me right up
erm acktually it's trolley with an e-
@@overforest1195 If you're still stuck on the Diabolic Dragon, maybe try getting the D̵̡̡̞̹̘̬̞̻̰̄̿͒̾̈́̉̄̚̕͜͜͜͝a̴̡͖̭̗̗̤͔̙̝̔̽̈̽͐̐͌͛̑͊̑u̶̫͚͎̬̦͆̑͜ģ̴̥͚̩̫̝̤͎̳̦̙̥͙̑̽̏̈́̎͜͝ḩ̷̲̥͖͔̗͚̝̱̀̓̀̊̾̋̌͘͠t̵͚͙͓̝̻̬͇͈̀̉̈́͋͑͂̉̿ͅe̵̫̫̙͉̼͔̺̚r̸̳̃̅̈́̔̆̂́̀͐̚͝͝ in your party. She's a pain the ass to manage, but she's strong in combat. Once you beat the Diabolic Dragon, SURE you respec into the things that let you either dump her, or manage her for the rest of the game.
give the (princess that's going to kill you) *The Look*
Prolley Troblem
That's a good YTP
That was a nice YTP.
I was indifferent about that YTP.
That was *the* shittiest YTP
Thou seemeth to haft a good YTP
Step 1: Flip the lever directing the trolley to the singular person
Step 2: Use the time you would've spent pondering the choice, to untie the singular person
Step 3: With that person's help, you can now take your time untying the rest.
You have successfully used the ponderer's loophole to solve the trolley problem.
my thoughts on the problem EXACTLY. the trolley problem in real life would be incredibly easy to solve
To be fair, he was resisting arrest and trying to commit assault with a deadly weapon, that death was in self defense!
Yes, but the "self defense" is still a murder. Even worse, in this case, you could've acted without involving a death of one person; incarcerating them, incapacitating all 4 limbs, inducing them persistent vegetative state, or any other means that basically neutralizes them without taking their life. /s
Speaking of which, does rendering a person into persistent vegetative state count as a murder (in a trolly problem point-of-view)?
@@arduous222 Im pretty sure most people concider this to be worse than death
@@arduous222 depends if they're braindead, I remember hearing of a story where a couple scientists tried to communicate with a vegetative person by scanning their brain while they asked him questions; to say yes, he had to think about playing tennis(because the guy liked playing tennis), I forgot what he had to think to say no.
Wait the DEATH was in self defence? 😂
@@Protontit would count as murder only if the guy died later while in said comma, so unless he wakes up somehow then yes he would be charged with murder
OBJECTION! Respondent is ignoring distinction between an innocent party and a responsible one! The two problems are thus not comparable. Your Honor, I move to dismiss this false charge.
but if you're standing next to the lever, are you really not responsible for the outcome? really?
Sustained! All charges have been droped the defendant is free to go.
Check the updated autopsy report (the lone guy on track 2 is missing)
@joda7697
I think he's trying to say that the person tying people to train tracks is personally responsible for these deaths, whereas the single person we can choose to kill in the trolly problem is just an unfortunate innocent victim who dies as a result of trying to save many other innocent victims if we choose to do something.
Whether we are also responsible for the deaths caused by this insane trolley man to some degree is another matter entirely (and is the entire point of the trolley problem itself, whether we're responsible for standing by and doing nothing or if we're only responsible for the deaths we directly cause to save others). The dilemma here is more akin to the morality of the death penalty.
It's still a trolley problem regardless, or at least a variant of it
I like how the main character and the trolley perpetrator had a scenic fight on top of a trolley. Very poetic.
This causes your character to have a mental breakdown because the trolley problem seems inescapable and inevitable, and eventually they become the new person who ties people to trolley tracks, thus giving you the bad ending. To get the good ending to Theory Game Zero: Track of Fate, you must instead turn the villain over to the police, who will arrest them. With no deaths on hand, the trolley problem loop is finally broken, and the world rests easier at night, without fear of being tied to trolley tracks. However, it is implied that this leads straight into Theory Game 2: The Prisoners' Dilemma, which means there are more villains afoot forcing people into various moral dilemmas and game theory situations.
Not gonna lie, these would actually be really fun indie games.
@@Dreamheart101 I'm pretty sure this comment is a parody of the Zero Escape series, which is pretty much what the comment sounds like, but on coke and with a dozen other philosophical experiments and also time travel
@@brendanhall5581
Oh, neat!
@@brendanhall5581 Zero Escape mentioned?
Sorry, after solving the prisoner’s dilemma to sail away on you ship of Theseus but you slowly replace the planks 1 by 1 until it has non of it’s original planks, is it really the ship of Theseus? To get more places to fix it you have to time travel but when you get the planks you kill your grandpa for the planks causing the grandfather paradox, however super fast police are chasing you but you have a 10 meter lead but they run 10 times faster and you create the Achilles and the Tortoise paradox, whoops.
Part of the whole point of the trolley problem is that you can't use the character of any individual victim to judge since you don't know the any of the victims, so you have to base your decision purely off of the value of a human life.
However in this case, you know for a fact that the one who tied them to the tracks is a murderer, you know about his character and can account it into your decision, and thus this is no longer the original trolley problem.
Saying that adding variations to the trolley problem defeats the purpose of the trolley problem is a bit asinine. As if philosophers haven't been doing that for centuries.
@@dennischiu272 "What if we could prevent people from being tied to tracks" isn't really a variation of the problem, but a way to not have the problem in the first place.
@@OWnIshiiTrolling That's not what I said. Look up the fat villain variation of the trolley problem.
@@dennischiu272 You implied that the solution in the video, which is to not have people tied to tracks in the first place, is a variation of the trolley problem, which it is not.
The fat villain is what happens when someone tries to construct a perverse example that is divorced from reality, but really wants to call it a trolley problem
@@OWnIshiiTrolling The fat villain is a perfectly legitimate extension of the trolley problem. Stop fake gatekeeping something that you know is on Wikipedia.
Why do you keep trying to argue that "don't have people tied to the tracks" isn't the trolley problem? You watched the video and understand no one is saying or implying it is. Arguing using strawmen is weird.
this feels like the Narrator speaking in an ending from the Stanley Parable
And the game's title is Thomas Parallel.
for a second i read "Narrator" as "Naruto" and was very confused
"You know, you could've just arrested the guy."
That guy really be like
"Even if you kill me, I'll still win!"
And I'm like "Not evolutionarily, or spiritually. Here's your stupid prize."
How can you win if you're dead?
_metal pipe sound effect_
@@punbug4721 (As the crumpled fraction of a man falls to their nature-dug grave, streaking the sky in red as unwillingly tumble through the air at breakneck speeds, they begin to speak.)
”I cast… *DESTINY BOND.”*
(Now you must either save this soon-to-be paste and sludge of a man, or, by psychic link, join him in the place where souls depart. What do you choose, *hero?)*
@@punbug4721 (As the crumpled fraction of a man falls to their nature-dug grave, streaking the sky in red as unwillingly tumble through the air at breakneck speeds, they begin to speak.)
”I cast… *DESTINY BOND.”*
(Now you must either save this soon-to-be paste and sludge of a man, or, by psychic link, join him in the place where souls depart. What do you choose, *hero?)*
@@punbug4721 (As the fraction of a man falls to their nature-dug grave, streaking the sky in red as unwillingly tumble through the air at breakneck speeds, they begin to speak.)
”I cast… *DESTINY BOND.”*
(Now you must either save this soon-to-be paste and sludge of a man, or, by psychic link, join him in the place where souls depart. What do you choose, *hero?)*
it is important to note, that though the scenario in this video, and the scenario in the traditional trolley problem are quite similar
in this scenerio, your killing the few who performed an evil act to save the many that they would've killed
where as in the traditional trolly problem you dont have that context in choosing to kill the few vs the many
"one last trolly problem... For old times sake." *bash* (falls off bridge) "I guess I'm your last victim." (spits)
Trolley Problems require Trolley Solutions.
What if the person who came up with the trolley problem went back in time to kill their former self and prevent the trolley problem in the first place, thus invoking the trolley problem AND a time travel paradox?
sounds like the kinda shit the Master from doctor who would do, just for funsies
Predestination (2014)
"Your memes end here."
"No... I passed one to you... sure as the sun will rise..."
End of an era
"Just remember, Hero...We're much the same, you and I!"
*MWAHAHAhahahaa...*
Maybe the true trolley problem was the friends we bludgeoned to death along the way
Big difference is that the man killed here was threatening the lives of multiple people, whereas the one dude on the tracks was an innocent.
who says he was >:)
@@pixelatedluisytHe’s innocent until proven guilty
@@pupsnup1015 that's smart
"YOU ARE JUST LIKE ME. YOU NEVER STOPPED PLAYING DIDNT YA!?"
There was no accidents this time
Perchance
@@RaonMiru107you can’t just say perchance, perchance
Perchance
As the prophecy foretold.
Perchance.
And the wolves never came.
Any action that negatively affects one person, even slightly, to benefit other people is a secret trolly problem
"Ever heard of the trolley problem? Well, you're the problem, and I'M THE TROLLEY!"
- That guy right before beating the shtuffing out of the trolley maniac
The difference is this guy isn't an innocent, as is typically assumed of the one guy on the alternate track in the trolley problem.
You have no idea what 4th guy on the 6 people trolley track did between 1933 and 1945
I bet he has a moustache and plays minecraft, too.
@@Protontand you are therefore correct to assume he’s done nothing wrong!!!!
@@XCeazyX /srs or /j?
The trolley problem always cracked me up. Like, how many centuries did it take for evil people to find an argument for, "First, do no harm".
ENOUGH ALREADY! You throw the switch halfway, thereby derailing the trolley, and saving everyone. Trolleys don't go very fast, so any passengers on board will, at worst, suffer bumps and bruises. I hope this helps.
But what if its a trolley coming down hill and was not able to slow down because brakes a broken? If you put it half way, you will kill all the passengers on the train. So what is you choice now
This one is actually even more complex than the original because it's ambiguous how many people he would've killed with his villanous game
Infinite.
By your grit and determination you did it. You changed it from the trolley problem to the trolley solution.
schrodinger's trolley problem
"We were so focused on which track to choose, that we never really stoped to ask if the track ended."
The Trolley Problem is an infinite paradox. There is no feasible way to end it.
There's no indication that the people on the tracks were removed or the trolley diverted, so as far as I'm concerned, he let people on the tracks die and killed the guy that put them there.
There can be only one. Now you are the Trolleylander.
As a person who pulled the lever in the original question to save 4 people, *HELP ME!!!* the railway department is still searching for me for causing a major railway accident and causing 28 deaths.
esoomris presents a false equivalency to the trolly problem.
It is evident that the anaology aims to equate the innocent tied to the left side of the track to the killer, however there is an important distinction to make here, that being that one of these people is innocent, and the other is not.
The question of, "Would you take the life of a murderer to save his victims?" is a much simpler dilemma than the question of, "Would you take the life of an innocent to save more innocent lives?" and the former is not the trolly problem.
Generally speaking, the trolley problem does not require that all victims are morally equivalent. If you read the original problem, it only specifies the exchange of one man's life for the lives of five.
Killing a murderer to save his victims is called the Fat Villain variation of the trolley problem.
People like that second person are the reason you do more hard time in places like the UK for self defense than you do for actual murder.
Making the mother of all Trolley problems Jack, can't fret over every track!
this one feels like it's borrowing a bit from the iterated prisoner's dilemma but STILL comes to the intuitive conclusion of the normal trolley problem
In the thread there's another post which shows you how to turn the lever halfway to safely derail the trolley
“You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain” ahh situation
You've tried to destroy me and where did that bring you? Right back to me!
That guy must have been really strong to kill a man with a -plunger- Lever.
My favourite version of the trolley-problem is a "the emperor's new groove"-joke.
Izma: "Pull the lever."
Kronk: pulls the lever
Izma: "WRONG LEVEEEEEEEEEEEER!"
It's called the trolley solution. Now there is no problem.
The location looks like the tunnel location in completing the mission
The Trolley Problem into the Trolleyverse
The main difference here is that all the people tied to the tracks (as far as we know) were innocent in that scenario. The one person didn't tie the many nor the many the one person. Here you've explicitly killed a bad person The person who tied them all to the tracks.
Difference is the innocence of the lives in question, but it's still a valid joke
The difference in this scenario is the onr person is no longer presumed innocent.
yes
the trolleys continue
It's like the Joker, he just had to get one last laugh in before he died.
The actual way to solve the troller problem is to time switching the tracks to where the train de-rails off the track
Now can we go after the company who failed to install emergency brakes in every single one of these trolleys next?
Imagine you wake up in a Saw game chamber and the puppet in the TV introduces you to a trolley problem
If Burial Goods met Jeaney Collects, they could be called "Goods Collectors"
My brain though it was a different version of "You are an idiot" video.
_You've become the very thing you swore to destroy!_
I thought this would be more like a rescue mission called the save the one you love mission.
This is unironically a better twist than most modern movies
Honestly? yeah that's... pretty much the closest thing to the right option.
Well, except that the one guy tied to the tracks in the original problem had nothing to do with causing the situation. Also, one may presume that killing the designer of the game was a last resort, and that capturing him was an option.
Pull lever twice, derail train, presto
And so the cycle continues…
The sound design on these is always amazing! Love them so much
To be frank it's not the same since in the original trolley problem you all the potential victims are put into harm's way while here you're stopping a serial killer in the only way that ends the threat for good.
On the one hand, you're completely right. On the other hand, shut up and laugh at the joke.
Tumblr has bad jokes @@JoelPerry1
@@silverdededestruction2197 Fair enough. Laugh at the joke or leave.
It's different though because we presume the people tied to train tracks are innocent, this guy obviously wasn't.
Forget the trolley problem, we've just entered the trolley paradox.
"I have won..... but... at what cost?..."
"Even in death, I still serve."
“Wait, it was all trolley problem?!”
“Always has been”
Trouble with the trolley eh?
To end the trolly problem, there must be a trolley problem.
mc = main character uv = unamed villain
UV: *cough cough* you did it... you beat me... but you still played my game! i won!
MC: no, you didn't... i played your game yes, but i played it with my own rules... i made this trolley problem, not you... i played my own game
UV: it wasn't your game! it- *cough* -was my game you remade!
MC: is it? because the idea of killing one person to save more has existed long before you did. this isn't your game, you just made it popular, and i'm the one who beat it...
UV: *cough cough* the victor is not- *cough cough cough* -victorious until- *coughing fit* -the vanquished has considered themselves thus...
MC: then i guess neither of us win... looks like it's a tie... but this time it's not to the tracks...
*MC beats UV to death with the lever, as the somber music swells MC stands up... as the camera pans towards the sky the credits roll. who won? or was it... a hogtie?*
I like how so many comments are imagining the trolley perpetrator as pulling out the ''but if you kill me, you'll be just as bad as i am!" card, when... no? you tied my buddy eric onto train-tracks my guy you are getting an ass-beating no matter what happens, it's more or less karma catching up instead of a ''we're not so different you and i'' situation.
Or maybe you can say you out-trolley'd the problem.
I was taught to not call them "problems", but rather "opportunities."
To me, it's a *"trolley opportunity"*
"Fine. I'll play your game, Trolley Man. One last time."
And that’sss why the only sssolution to the trolley problem isss drawing ssso that the tracksss become one loop and then jumping onto the track yourssself.
By defeating the trolley problem, you become the trolley problem
Season 2 teasers be like
When the trolley problem becomes the trolley solution
"You solved the trolley problem by creating another trolley problem. Do you imagine yourself happy?"
Onto level 2!
>tries to escape the trolley problem
> becomes the trolley problem