Great video.I also use a ball machine often and commited the same error at first. It's just so much easier to hit consistent high speed shots on the ball machine. Now I focus on spin,placement and angles mostly on my ball machine sessions.
Thank you for the video! Yet again a great way to make a point. This was one of the reasons why we started filming our games. What a realisation to see yourself playing!
I struggle with the psychology of hitting slower - if I think I should slow down then it's very easy to massively overdo it and start hitting really weak balls, then it can be very difficult to adjust. The mindset in which you play tennis is so important, you can't just think "hit slower".
You right increasing speed increase risk. But some tennis school teach to hit very fast. They say most of the balls are out, but they go on, and after lot's of practice, the balls go in the court, and more often. This practice is called tennis percentage. It's very demanding but very effective.
What immediately came into my mind is hardcourt vs clay. I think the difference in bouncing speed is significant to put your measurements under some doubts.
Thanks very much for such a great lesson! I believe this information is can only be found in this RUclips channel, not others. To me, the take a way from your lesson is: 1. "If you play the ball this fast, you have to play low above the net." 2. "The faster you play, the smaller window above the net." 3. "If you play with this speed at this height, the ball will go long" I did go back and took a look at "Fastest EVER ATP Forehands" video and saw that every single fastest forehand being recorded at the low angle in the video was barely above net. QUESTION: Might I know what application that you use for adding watch-timer in the video frame? Thanks again!!!...
Hello Tomaz, I'd like to repeat this exercise for me and my hitting partner. Can you tell me what software you are using for playing back the side by side videos and also the timer element please?
First, and here's the question. What is the proper way to control ball speed? More topspin or just control the urge to smash the ball. For beginners like me, topspin sometimes not easy even I want it to :(
Yes. I havê a friend who's a beginner, and he always tries to hit the ball as hard as he can and he loses 3 out of 4 balls right away, the ball he gets in, I hit it back and then he does the same thing again and he hits it outside. I don't remember him hitting a winner. He needs to learn how to pass the ball consistently first, and only then improve his speed. I havê to do the same. First practice maintaining consistency at a rate that is acceptable, like you can pass 14 out of 15 balls, and then improve your speed!
focus on consistency and topspin will help you control the ball, I am a very small player but people compliment my topspin and say it is hard to return, once you have it down you can start adding more pace (which is swinging faster not tensing up and arming the ball)
@@Chow2323 Topspin is a must to focus on, I have seen many players that are consistent but moonball and dink balls just to get them in the court. (Pushers) Are they consistent? Yes, however, they will plateau and get stuck with bad habits.
If you want to develop control you should practice small tennis. Do a lot of spin in serve court. You will gain control and better feel, better racket speed, and better legs movement.
Aren't there a few variables that can influence the time of ball travel? Like, if a ball is hit shallow in the court, it will have more time to travel slow til it meets opponent. Whereas if it's deep on the baseline, it's been traveling fast the whole time til getting slowed down by the court surface. Also, if it has heavy topspin, or it's flat. and if it's a slow clay court, or a fast grass court.
Not to ask out of contention, but genuinely curious for logics sake Wouldnt your goal be to be able to more consistently hit the ball lower and faster for normal/attacking shots? A big window is safer, logically, but wouldnt you want to be more consistent at hitting it lower and faster? I find I do this a lot too and Ive been playing for years. Again, just curious!
You can't be consistent playing low over the net in the same way as you cannot be consistent shooting 3 pointers in basketball. It's simply gets too difficult for human brain and body to execute.
Good topic. I also use my timer in coach’s eye. My goal is improving my technic till one day the ball bounce in ,86 sec close to the baseline, that is exactly 100 km/hr (excluding the bounce, thats slows down the speed drastically). Now my fastest 1bh is ,93 sec and fh is about .9 sec when practicing. My goal of 0,86 sec keeps me searching for further technical improvements and its help me a lot.
In my opinion most of the time they are wrong suggesting increasing racket head speed to a 3.0 player who plays twice a week. They simply don't have enough skill to pull it off. They can also suggest increasing racket head speed into topspin (so more upwards than forwards) but again that requires pretty good hand eye coordination skills. Many pros blindly follow what is supposed to be trained with competitive juniors and higher level players and with no though suggest that to regular folks who play tennis recreationally and don't have the natural skills to pull it off. So you have to assess the player really well before you suggest them an advanced tennis skill.
I think the issue here is how to achieve loose and relaxed swing which we all agree is a good thing. In many recreational players, getting them to hit slower might achieve this, because their speed comes from tension in the arm, and this video would benefit people like that. There are other players though who need to hit faster with more spin to actually get more consistency, which is the point of increasing the racquet head speed. It's an issue I see a lot on faster surfaces such as synthetic grass where people just don't learn a proper swing but get away with short stabs at the ball. However, it requires some re-engineering of the stroke itself before swing speed increase, since just swinging faster with a faulty swing doesn't really work. Perhaps a better way to describe the correct technique is not to talk about swing speed at all but to talk about a slight acceleration during the swing. I believe Tomas has a video or two on this too.
Thank you very much, and now I have a question: I am lower intermediate, and when I slow down the swing, the ball goes in, but the other player attacks in, but when I increase the swing, it gets too risky or too forced, but it is the only way to work with short balls. What should I do: keep hitting slower focusing on consistency till I naturally get better or take tons of lessons trying to increase my racket head speed and live for now with balls flying out? Sorry if it sounds a little beginner, but I'll welcome any feedback, thank you.
@@Lenamo23 Not sure about your specific situation so let's ignore what you said about your opponent and that it's the only way to work with short balls, because that really depends on what you want to achieve (competition vs practice for example). It would be hard to get better if you feel forced to hit wildly every time you get a short ball, for example? I think what you're asking is that sometimes it feels like you have to choose between either starting with slow strokes and somehow building up speed, or starting with a fully formed swing and build up consistency? If so, it can really depend a lot on the individual and their way of learning, and perhaps even a combination of both ways are required (and lots of patience!). I have found it often hard for adults to learn based on form, and would probably recommend a feel based approach as Tomas here does, as it's more implicit and easier to make it a part of your body, but again it's different for everyone. Imagine that you had a practice partner with whom you can have 20+ shot rallies with a relaxed swing straight to each other. Now imagine you just add one small element to that each time you practice, including a slight increase in racquet head speed if that's what you're after. I would think that's easier and more fun than trying to copy the form of some full swing and missing most of them and trying to work out how to fix it. Either way it’s not an overnight process!
astropiazzolla that’s a great piece of advice, thank you! I’ll work on hitting with a relaxed swing and adding progressions step by step. It’s interesting to know why many pros don’t have patience for adult beginners and want to teach everything at once 😊
Hi, I was a high school player trying to get back into the sport as an adult. Power is now easy but control is my problem so this is a great video, thank you for highlighting this. Are there any techniques to gauge your speed on the court? Perhaps by mentally counting, although I would hate to have to add one more thing to think about.
Very interesting. After much thought, since you are not measuring the speed of the ball but measuring time of contact to contact. Thus this analysis is possibly more about ball trajectory than ball speed ie. flat or topspin. Rafael hits a very hard ball but with a large amount of topspin thus much net clearance and longer trajectory. Thus longer time of contact to contact but a very fast ball. I am curious as to what you think.
Great video. I have a question for the one handed backhand. Is it normal for the raquet to feel loose at contact? I'm thinking it could be because I'm holding it palm down and it's laying on my fingers, unlike my forehand that lays on my palm. This loose/weak feeling causes me to not feel the ball very well at contact and I feel like my raquet is easy to bend back.
@@feeltennis I play that slow in free rallies because that's what my partner/coach likes. I can try to ask if I can increase the speed and spin in our free rallies. But you are correct, I should play faster. The match average is a little misleading as I'm a junk baller.
These touring pros like Andy Murray and David Ferreri are groundstrokes are very slow pace! Shocked? I can hit the ball twice as fast as those touring pros! I should be ranked at least 7.0 instead of 3.5.
If a tennis court is 24 metres long, let’s say 25 metres since you’re standing behind the baseline and it takes 1.5 seconds that means you’re hitting at 6 km/hr.
This is very useful to me. I practice my stroke with a ball machine, and I routinely set the speed to 55 mph. To replicate actual match conditions, I should set ball speed around 40 mph and ball interval to 3 seconds.
@@feeltennis Nailed the answer :D btw I love your YT channel and the way you explain everything. Thanks to you and your work done here, I've improved a lot and I believe there are many other people who would say the same :)
David Chen The ball slows down quite a bit after it is hit; 37 mph is only the average. Maybe the ball machine would need to be set closer to 50. Best way is to just try it and time it though
I cannot believe this legend has only 162k subscribers! More power to him please...
His coaching is so novel. I'm quite sold on most of his views. Really appreciate it
Great video.I also use a ball machine often and commited the same error at first. It's just so much easier to hit consistent high speed shots on the ball machine. Now I focus on spin,placement and angles mostly on my ball machine sessions.
Thank you
Thank you for the video! Yet again a great way to make a point. This was one of the reasons why we started filming our games. What a realisation to see yourself playing!
I struggle with the psychology of hitting slower - if I think I should slow down then it's very easy to massively overdo it and start hitting really weak balls, then it can be very difficult to adjust. The mindset in which you play tennis is so important, you can't just think "hit slower".
Think 50%
Excellent explanations as usual
Thank you so much sir
Pretty eye opening. It's so hard for me to not swing out of my shoes. Leads to super inconsistency though.
Really appreciate your insight and lessons. Such a great perspective to take onto the court. I needed to see this. Thanks!
You right increasing speed increase risk. But some tennis school teach to hit very fast. They say most of the balls are out, but they go on, and after lot's of practice, the balls go in the court, and more often. This practice is called tennis percentage. It's very demanding but very effective.
What immediately came into my mind is hardcourt vs clay. I think the difference in bouncing speed is significant to put your measurements under some doubts.
Then, I watched the entire video and I think I got your point. Nice one!
Very interesting and instructive
Such a useful video, backed by data. Thanks.
Thanks very much for such a great lesson! I believe this information is can only be found in this RUclips channel, not others. To me, the take a way from your lesson is:
1. "If you play the ball this fast, you have to play low above the net."
2. "The faster you play, the smaller window above the net."
3. "If you play with this speed at this height, the ball will go long"
I did go back and took a look at "Fastest EVER ATP Forehands" video and saw that every single fastest forehand being recorded at the low angle in the video was barely above net.
QUESTION: Might I know what application that you use for adding watch-timer in the video frame?
Thanks again!!!...
Thanks for the kind feedback! I use Coach's Eye on a tablet.
@@feeltennis Thanks very much for your response and especially this great lesson!!!....
Hello Tomaz, I'd like to repeat this exercise for me and my hitting partner. Can you tell me what software you are using for playing back the side by side videos and also the timer element please?
Hi Lotus, it's called Coach's Eye, the timer is part of standard features even in free version. I use it on a tablet but it works on smartphones too.
Feel Tennis Instruction on my iPhone the timer is a paid for upgrade.
@@feeltennis Thank you kindly Tomaz and also for the videos you put out. I've watched many and you're very good
Great video, thanks!
First, and here's the question. What is the proper way to control ball speed? More topspin or just control the urge to smash the ball. For beginners like me, topspin sometimes not easy even I want it to :(
Yes. I havê a friend who's a beginner, and he always tries to hit the ball as hard as he can and he loses 3 out of 4 balls right away, the ball he gets in, I hit it back and then he does the same thing again and he hits it outside. I don't remember him hitting a winner.
He needs to learn how to pass the ball consistently first, and only then improve his speed.
I havê to do the same.
First practice maintaining consistency at a rate that is acceptable, like you can pass 14 out of 15 balls, and then improve your speed!
focus on consistency and topspin will help you control the ball, I am a very small player but people compliment my topspin and say it is hard to return, once you have it down you can start adding more pace (which is swinging faster not tensing up and arming the ball)
Topspin will come naturally. Don't worry about it too much, just focus on consistency
@@Chow2323 Topspin is a must to focus on, I have seen many players that are consistent but moonball and dink balls just to get them in the court. (Pushers) Are they consistent? Yes, however, they will plateau and get stuck with bad habits.
If you want to develop control you should practice small tennis. Do a lot of spin in serve court. You will gain control and better feel, better racket speed, and better legs movement.
Aren't there a few variables that can influence the time of ball travel? Like, if a ball is hit shallow in the court, it will have more time to travel slow til it meets opponent. Whereas if it's deep on the baseline, it's been traveling fast the whole time til getting slowed down by the court surface. Also, if it has heavy topspin, or it's flat. and if it's a slow clay court, or a fast grass court.
Best videos out there
Very interesting. Could you do this same analysis on Thiem's vs Federer's shots out of curiosity?
I cannot post any official matches because of possible copyright issues. If you give me a link from a video where they play I can post some numbers.
Not to ask out of contention, but genuinely curious for logics sake
Wouldnt your goal be to be able to more consistently hit the ball lower and faster for normal/attacking shots? A big window is safer, logically, but wouldnt you want to be more consistent at hitting it lower and faster? I find I do this a lot too and Ive been playing for years. Again, just curious!
You can't be consistent playing low over the net in the same way as you cannot be consistent shooting 3 pointers in basketball. It's simply gets too difficult for human brain and body to execute.
There is no one approach, it all depends from a players position on the court, it is better to go for a high ball but not always.
Good topic. I also use my timer in coach’s eye. My goal is improving my technic till one day the ball bounce in ,86 sec close to the baseline, that is exactly 100 km/hr (excluding the bounce, thats slows down the speed drastically). Now my fastest 1bh is ,93 sec and fh is about .9 sec when practicing. My goal of 0,86 sec keeps me searching for further technical improvements and its help me a lot.
Why that speed? Does the speed really matter as long as you win the point?
Is that a feel thing or how can we control the speed or feel it while playing match?
Thanks
Many pros recommend increasing the racket head speed. Does it it mean increasing the risk too or it is different? Thank you!
In my opinion most of the time they are wrong suggesting increasing racket head speed to a 3.0 player who plays twice a week. They simply don't have enough skill to pull it off. They can also suggest increasing racket head speed into topspin (so more upwards than forwards) but again that requires pretty good hand eye coordination skills. Many pros blindly follow what is supposed to be trained with competitive juniors and higher level players and with no though suggest that to regular folks who play tennis recreationally and don't have the natural skills to pull it off. So you have to assess the player really well before you suggest them an advanced tennis skill.
I think the issue here is how to achieve loose and relaxed swing which we all agree is a good thing. In many recreational players, getting them to hit slower might achieve this, because their speed comes from tension in the arm, and this video would benefit people like that. There are other players though who need to hit faster with more spin to actually get more consistency, which is the point of increasing the racquet head speed. It's an issue I see a lot on faster surfaces such as synthetic grass where people just don't learn a proper swing but get away with short stabs at the ball. However, it requires some re-engineering of the stroke itself before swing speed increase, since just swinging faster with a faulty swing doesn't really work.
Perhaps a better way to describe the correct technique is not to talk about swing speed at all but to talk about a slight acceleration during the swing. I believe Tomas has a video or two on this too.
Thank you very much, and now I have a question: I am lower intermediate, and when I slow down the swing, the ball goes in, but the other player attacks in, but when I increase the swing, it gets too risky or too forced, but it is the only way to work with short balls. What should I do: keep hitting slower focusing on consistency till I naturally get better or take tons of lessons trying to increase my racket head speed and live for now with balls flying out? Sorry if it sounds a little beginner, but I'll welcome any feedback, thank you.
@@Lenamo23 Not sure about your specific situation so let's ignore what you said about your opponent and that it's the only way to work with short balls, because that really depends on what you want to achieve (competition vs practice for example). It would be hard to get better if you feel forced to hit wildly every time you get a short ball, for example? I think what you're asking is that sometimes it feels like you have to choose between either starting with slow strokes and somehow building up speed, or starting with a fully formed swing and build up consistency?
If so, it can really depend a lot on the individual and their way of learning, and perhaps even a combination of both ways are required (and lots of patience!). I have found it often hard for adults to learn based on form, and would probably recommend a feel based approach as Tomas here does, as it's more implicit and easier to make it a part of your body, but again it's different for everyone. Imagine that you had a practice partner with whom you can have 20+ shot rallies with a relaxed swing straight to each other. Now imagine you just add one small element to that each time you practice, including a slight increase in racquet head speed if that's what you're after. I would think that's easier and more fun than trying to copy the form of some full swing and missing most of them and trying to work out how to fix it. Either way it’s not an overnight process!
astropiazzolla that’s a great piece of advice, thank you! I’ll work on hitting with a relaxed swing and adding progressions step by step. It’s interesting to know why many pros don’t have patience for adult beginners and want to teach everything at once 😊
Hi, I was a high school player trying to get back into the sport as an adult. Power is now easy but control is my problem so this is a great video, thank you for highlighting this. Are there any techniques to gauge your speed on the court? Perhaps by mentally counting, although I would hate to have to add one more thing to think about.
I come to lake bled in September - will you be in Slovenia then :)
Very interesting. After much thought, since you are not measuring the speed of the ball but measuring time of contact to contact. Thus this analysis is possibly more about ball trajectory than ball speed ie. flat or topspin. Rafael hits a very hard ball but with a large amount of topspin thus much net clearance and longer trajectory. Thus longer time of contact to contact but a very fast ball. I am curious as to what you think.
Great video. I have a question for the one handed backhand. Is it normal for the raquet to feel loose at contact? I'm thinking it could be because I'm holding it palm down and it's laying on my fingers, unlike my forehand that lays on my palm. This loose/weak feeling causes me to not feel the ball very well at contact and I feel like my raquet is easy to bend back.
No, the racket should feel stable at contact. And usually the backhand grip is more firm than forehand grip so that helps stabilize the racket.
Hi Tomaz, if I´m hitting at the wall, my rally court time would be twice the time it takes from the racket to the wall?
Yes, if you're at around 12-13 meters from the wall.
16:40 the lesson
And nice summary 18:40
Match speed between David Ferrer and Andy Murray is approx. 47.2 miles per hour. Which seems on the very low end of the spectrum.
Rally 1.7-2.0, Match 1.5 seconds. Is that too slow for a developed stroke?
I think the difference is to big. You should speed up your rallies eventually and get closer to match speeds. Or slow down your match play. ;)
@@feeltennis I play that slow in free rallies because that's what my partner/coach likes. I can try to ask if I can increase the speed and spin in our free rallies. But you are correct, I should play faster. The match average is a little misleading as I'm a junk baller.
I doubt it. I think more power doesn't mean more risk.
These touring pros like Andy Murray and David Ferreri are groundstrokes are very slow pace! Shocked? I can hit the ball twice as fast as those touring pros! I should be ranked at least 7.0 instead of 3.5.
get yourself on the tour dude. I can see the engravers scratching 'HW2800' into the trophies as we speak
@@renhoek3851 haha classic
I definitely hit slower in matches. I got for consistency.
Luckily there is no spin limit to obey ;-)
I like your mug.
Thanks
We can't measure swing speed in tennis? Golf does all the time. Think we should look at that metric with all the tools we have.
Psh, my forehand is .02 every shot. I only make like 2 balls in per set though. That how I like to play.
Summary: NEVER use ball machine!😂
Or you could use it the right way. Without rushing too much the shots.
If a tennis court is 24 metres long, let’s say 25 metres since you’re standing behind the baseline and it takes 1.5 seconds that means you’re hitting at 6 km/hr.
1.5 seconds = .00042 of an hour. 25 meters = .025 km. .025/.00042 = 59.52 km/hr which is about 37 mph.
The calculations become quite complex once you include air friction and friction of the bounce. And additional drag because of spin.
This is very useful to me. I practice my stroke with a ball machine, and I routinely set the speed to 55 mph. To replicate actual match conditions, I should set ball speed around 40 mph and ball interval to 3 seconds.
@@feeltennis Nailed the answer :D btw I love your YT channel and the way you explain everything. Thanks to you and your work done here, I've improved a lot and I believe there are many other people who would say the same :)
David Chen The ball slows down quite a bit after it is hit; 37 mph is only the average. Maybe the ball machine would need to be set closer to 50. Best way is to just try it and time it though