This video seems really useful but man is it annoying. Spend forever trying to figure out where the practice section is, then there's a part 2 that repeats all of the uninteresting intro stuff we already watched
Thank you so much for the video! I can’t wait for part 2! A lot of the videos I saw on RUclips that were teaching arpeggios never explained how to incorporate forearm rotation, it was all thumb crossing under. So glad that you explained how to apply rotation to arpeggios
I tried out what you suggested; swinging my thumb right under the palm of my hand, and what I noticed was that it doesn't just make those thumb muscles stiff - it stiffens up the muscles right the way up your forearm to you elbow - *not* good! Thanks, PL! A further point for me is that I'm developing osteo-arthritis in the joint where my thumbs meet the hand; swinging it straight down onto the keys is no problem, but swinging it sideways like that would put pressure on that joint in the worst possible place for me. I've only been playing for a few weeks (with a superb teacher), and a key point I noticed when learning baritone horn, trombone, banjo and clarinet was how easy it is to develop a bad habit - and how hard it is to correct it later. Advice on how to avoid getting into these bad habits with the thumb is by far the best and the fastest way to progress. A quote from the sniper in the film 'Shooter' has always stuck with me: "Slow is smooth - smooth is fast." What he meant was, if you focus on getting it smooth, picking up speed comes quite easily, but if you don't get it smooth, you'll never get fast. Applies to piano or golf - just as much as it does to shooting.
Very specific demo, unlike many others beating around bush. The best I have ever seen More than 10 yrs ago Thomas Mark taught me in person . I bought his book before he came . But ever buying into it until recently my wrist has pain . I realized I used too much fingers You mentioned him in another video . All are connected. You are an Excellent communicator! I hope to see more of your demos : anything would be helpful
The forearm rotation is often attributed to Taubman. It seems to be the main gist of her teaching. But the exact mechanics of the forearm rotation was describe many years before by Tobias Matthay.
I extremely love your style and techniques! I absolutely love it.❤ I started to play piano when I was 21 and all people around told me that it was too late and they were very right..to become professional pianist. At music school I was among those of 5-7 years old. It was quite funny. However i have achieved my pleasure OF PLAYING piano by a very long hours. My 'old' fingers was the hardest work. After 8 years I could play some preludes of Chopin, tocata and Fugaof Bach and even as far as lieberstraum of List.
Very good! Tx. Might I suggest putting a light over the lelft side of the keyboard to balance out the shadows and make all the keys look the same. Your lessons will look better.
I am watching your demonstrations carefully and trying to be patient about thumb going away from it or 3 over 1 and 4 over one going toward 1. I will take your word for it and try to work it for more fluency and ease. Those movements, especially the gap to the thumb, are very awkward and, of course, at snails pace reveals a big gap. Thank you for the detailed analysis down below but I still have a question based on what's being claimed and demonstrated. I will comment with those folks down below. I have watched Part 2 a number of times. Will work it more. Dave M
Rotating the forearm while moving up the arpeggio (for the right hand) makes perfect sense to me as it brings your thumb further up the keyboard, but when moving down the arpeggio (from your thumb on C, down to the middle finger on G, for example), rotating your wrist clockwise doesn't really bring your fingers further down the keyboard. Do you just have to lift your whole hand and accept that there's going to be a gap in sound at that point?
Great question! The rotation in the right hand moving down the keyboard (from thumb to third finger) Will move the third finger somewhat closer, however you are right, it won't get you all the way. In fact, rotation works much better moving up in the right-hand and moving down the left-hand because that is the direction in which the arm rotates. This is also why I recommend beginning practicing hands alone with the right hand moving up the keyboard and the left hand moving down the keyboard. If you watch part 2 I get into a little bit more detail about this. The important thing to understand here is that the rotational movement is used to get from one position to the next. As it is impossible to have a true ‘physical legato’ connection when playing arpeggios at speed, it becomes more of a “shifting” motion which is where the rotation comes in. Even though playing up the keyboard the rotation moves the thumb closer to its destination note it still won't get it all the way there and so there will be a small ‘gap’. However If we maintain proper alignment of the arm behind the hand and use rotation the shifting motion will be so fast that even though there is a tiny ‘gap’ it will be imperceptible to the ear. If you experiment with the rotation coming down the keyboard I think that you will find that it is an incredibly fast and easy movement that makes the shift in the arpeggio feel incredibly smooth and strong. I would say when first practicing don't worry about the small gap just focus on the rotational movement. Once you have that very fluent and it feels easy and you start adding the thumb movement and building Speed, the gap will become smaller and smaller until it will be virtually non-existent. I can say for myself, that arpeggios were always something that I struggled with when I was younger. Largely to do with the fact that when most teachers teach arpeggios they virtually only ever talk about the “thumb-tuck” or how to connect the third finger and thumb as you move to the next position. This of course only creates a large amount of tension and just makes it more difficult to play arpeggios. But when I got older and started studying with the teacher that taught me most of these ideas, I found when proper alignment and rotation are applied (to arpeggio playing for instance (let alone virtually any other kind of Passage)) suddenly virtuosic repertoire that I never thought I would ever be able to play became very playable and almost easy. Anyways, this was a very long-winded reply, but I hope that it was helpful! Like I said, experiment with these movements and I think you will find over time as they become more familiar that it makes arpeggio playing that much easier. Anyways, thank you for the question! And thank you for your support!
I've noticed with a lot of people that the biggest problem with playing RH descending arpeggios is that they pivot on the 2nd finger. Crossing over to the 3rd finger requires a lot less movement of your wrist if you don't pivot on the 2nd finger. This applies whether you use forearm rotation or not.
@@nostromissimo Interesting. So you're saying avoid counter clockwise rotation when it's not necessary, so that you don't have to undo that movement when it's time to cross over?
@@TerebiJoke yes, for the reason you just said. I'm talking about rotation on the horizontal plane, known as lateral wrist motion, not about rotation from the forearm. Try to avoid it between 2 and 1 when descending (Also avoid it between 1 and 2 when ascending). I think many people unwittingly use a lateral wrist on 2 to 1 because that's what is best to do on a one octave arpeggio when there is no crossover to the next note. Like you imply, a lateral twist from 2 to 1 will require an even bigger twist (or in the case of this post, bigger forearm rotation) to get the 3 over. Avoiding the lateral motion means you have to rethink how to release the 2nd finger. You can use the forearm rotation suggested in this post to avoid your 2nd finger catching the side of the adjacent key, you can use finger articulation to get it to lift before it catches, or a bit of both. You can let it catch, but if you try that same technique when your 2nd finger is on a black key it will unintentionally slide off.
Good info and demo , I detect piano playing style taught by Dorothy Taubman who’s piano teachings are taught by Edna golandsky which I have been watching ,which I am teaching myself this style ,where do you get this style from thanks del
I learned these concepts and ideas from my teacher who is unfamiliar with the taubman approach. I have since then studied with Golandski teachers and have formed my own approach from all of the above sources. Thanks for watching!
Hi, in this example I would start with the index finger and middle C then the long finger followed by the thumb to make the cord. Then repeat with the middle finger on the root. Is this the correct way to do it? I'm pretty good at the way you showed, but it's faster with the way I just said.
I don't know if it was this or another related video, but I have taken you up on your rec to practice scales, and arps as well in contrary motion. This is helpful because it is another way to get the establish the patterns in muscle memory. C is the easiest for obvious reasons, same fingers and no black keys. I do it for all the white sharp keys up to BM at present. E flat M is the only mixed scale that I have found which has the patterns of identical fingers at the same time. Three flats is a very common key. Very helpful. To my point, this is part of a disciplined practice regimen, predictable, doable with success at the tempo required for mastery, one can time the session or , what I do, set the repetition patterns for each exercise, checking whether I'm ready to increase tempo by how well it was done at this tempo; a path to better musicianship and ivory tickling. Not yet Glenn Gould. Which reminds me of an inspiration. One commentator noted how Glenn's playing "was never about him," he was in service of the musical muse, some imagined a(in)spirations greater than ourselves. A consummate artist. Quite a nice singing voice too, as he accompanies himself, even in public performances of piano works. You clearly show that the music, and better playing of same, is THE boogey. Let's have fun! Dave M
is 2-3-1 a viable fingering for C-E-G arpeggio? I'm pretty new to piano, and there might be good reason why nobody is doing it, but it feels the least awkward to me.
So I'm learning the Shostakovich Fugue No 7 and after many months of practice I still makes mistakes that occur in places that I never made mistakes before. And sometimes I feel I've never seen that measure before, almost like I'm dyslexic, I have to focus on that note to recognize it. This is the only music in which that seems to happen. Help?
I learn the piano by myself. How do you show the piano on the roof ? Do you use a program ? i want to know that how do you show the hand arms and elbos
I have tripod that I put on top of the piano looking down at the keys and a tripod on the side of the piano. Then use a program to put the footage together in a video.
Not hardly any new vids coming; reviewing those from the past. I commented 2x on this one. I have now been developing these techniques from mainly C and others for 3-4 months. I started slowly and they came very fast. Don't think about them now. Rotation can be used better with scalar stepwise motion; arps have bigger gaps and I don't see how they can be done without the correct calibration of "lateral forearm movement," to get over the keys before twiddling. C calls it "shifting." ? His talk on the thumb is important and right on, given thumb use necessity; I can move 1 under to just about 2-3 mid max without tightening, try to stay max base of 2. Also makes for stronger knuckle bridge. You can go under some, helping get closer to position, but not too far, add some rotation, and get the hand there by lateral forearm movement in both directions, keeps the hand square to the keyboard, informs fingering. Another thing I've done as SOP is, because so much in music scores, not just preset scales and arps, is context dependent, I now play with a slightly higher wrist so the thumb can get under with more ease, especially in extreme registers. Works good. Feels great. No tension. I had to correct slow lateral movement, wrist twisting, which leads to flying elbows, and stretching hand and fingers to hit targets. I've done this in about 4-5 months, now playing the best piano of my life. Remarkable progress. So, thanks to C and all supporters. We feel C's sincerity and authenticity. How 'bout some new meat for the Piano nation to devour? Life happens to us all.
I viewed your part 2 video because I enjoyed very much part 1. I thought you offered better details than two other videos I've watched. However, I became lost and confused in your part 2 video. I was expecting the notes to be stated and not the: "left, right, left, right" pattern you recited. Nonetheless, I thought everything else you spoke of was helpful. Thanks.
The video is very informative, but the title and description is misleading. This video discusses problems with "traditional" ways of practicing/playing arpeggios. That's really it. No technique is discussed until about the 10 min mark and very briefly at that.
Thanks for the comment. I felt that it was necessary to discuss the problems with "traditional" ways of practicing first (which just takes time) before I got to how to practice. It is a two part series so part 2 gets to the heart of how to actually practice.
I agree with you. The fellow has to earn a living and keeping the viewer to watch the whole video means more RUclips money. The guy is verbose and keeps repeating himself. There are ways to make his video interesting, he just doesn't know how, yet.
This definitely works for fast arpeggios in post-classical music but it doesn't necessarily work for Classical or Baroque music when the tempo is slow and we're not using any pedal. I think the best solution is to manage to find the best combination of these techniques you already mentioned depending on the musical result we're looking for and also one's hand morphology... Not just sticking with only one technique and giving up on others. It is as important to play with maximum ease and fluency, as to stay within the musical context.
Great comment! I would agree that doing the music justice and adhering to correct stylistic performance practices is very important. However, I would also say that I think that being able to play with "maximum ease and fluency" is the best way to be able to stay within the musical context. When this technique is fully learned and integrated it is so fast and efficient that even when playing slowly, the "gap" in the thumb crossing is imperceptible. But if a more "legato" sound is desired than the thumb can be extended ever so slightly so as to make the connection without stressing the muscles in the hand. Also, since the "default" articulation in music of the Baroque and early Classical periods is detached ( non-legato), I find that this technique actually works quite well. I think that understanding and applying rotation to arpeggio playing is the most helpful practice tip, even if a traditional "thumb under" technique is also used. Hope that all makes sense!!
Great observation; both you and Craig make perfect sense to me, too. My sense is that mastery, integration, of this technique set provides more freedom of articulation, confident and more expansive expression palette, more enjoyment for player and listener, than most of what I've observed. That's why I'm sticking with it. I see where it is going. It takes a while; but if we approach it right, meaning patiently, methodically, modelling someone who has been there, following recommendations, not skipping steps, we note progress toward the goal of more expressive playing with the least amount of effort. For me it's a simple case of "giving up on" what doesn't work for me, as I would like it to. Sounds great, looks good, quiet strength of confidence. Not enough of that in the world. Great point, too: Hand morphology, most people have slight differences, some instance could be present custom issues. My forearms still require more lateral movement=new muscle memory, overwriting previous default habits. This is a big one for me, changing position by moving the forearm constantly in-to best position, not just the hands, fingers, elbows or shoulders. Lots of new distances to learn, fortunately how to get there is simple if not easy, the basic pattern is uniform, can be used anywhere. I still have a question about the monster supination of the hand putting thumb under on bigger intervals like the 4th, arpeggio land, perhaps training the thumb cross for even bigger intervals. Challenge for a singer to accept the realities of piano physics. My own analogy helped me. It appears as a practice technique only. Will study Part 2 again. Arpeggios are a seminal structural reality in music. Thank you, all. Dave M
Thanks for your feedback! I think that what I said was necessary as the most coordinated and efficient way to practice arpeggios is to truly understand what works and what doesn't and so I felt that I needed to explain this.
Your intro was very appealing. Finally a video that focus on the essential problems... However, my 2nd finger lacks of accuracy and wanted to know how to fix that. E. g. playing octaves or larger intervals on 5, 2 like on this video: ruclips.net/video/Z3bNAvaQihA/видео.html D-D-Bb, C-D-Bb and even G-D-Bb Is it just practice or is there a secret trick to improve accuracy?
You're welcome! I will be posting the video soon. I think that rotation works equally well for both hands. As both the Right and Left hand are anatomically the same, the LH works the same but opposite to the RH.
Actually, there's no "up to tempo" demonstration because if I was to do such you wouldn't it be able to see it because the movements are so small at speed. It does indeed work at tempo.. If you don't believe me that's fine but that is the only way that I've been able to play arpeggios at extreme speeds. 💯
@@PIANO_LAB that’s why you do the tutorial- discuss the movements and demonstrate at a slow tempo and then do it much faster to show that it works. Would you do a clip showing the arpeggios played hands together up and down the keyboard at a fast tempo?
You showed the mechanics of executing arpeggios, but never showed you playing FULL arpeggios... so, I you didn't know how to play them this would not show you the finished results..
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This video seems really useful but man is it annoying. Spend forever trying to figure out where the practice section is, then there's a part 2 that repeats all of the uninteresting intro stuff we already watched
Thank you so much for the video! I can’t wait for part 2! A lot of the videos I saw on RUclips that were teaching arpeggios never explained how to incorporate forearm rotation, it was all thumb crossing under. So glad that you explained how to apply rotation to arpeggios
You're so welcome!
I tried out what you suggested; swinging my thumb right under the palm of my hand, and what I noticed was that it doesn't just make those thumb muscles stiff - it stiffens up the muscles right the way up your forearm to you elbow - *not* good!
Thanks, PL!
A further point for me is that I'm developing osteo-arthritis in the joint where my thumbs meet the hand; swinging it straight down onto the keys is no problem, but swinging it sideways like that would put pressure on that joint in the worst possible place for me.
I've only been playing for a few weeks (with a superb teacher), and a key point I noticed when learning baritone horn, trombone, banjo and clarinet was how easy it is to develop a bad habit - and how hard it is to correct it later. Advice on how to avoid getting into these bad habits with the thumb is by far the best and the fastest way to progress.
A quote from the sniper in the film 'Shooter' has always stuck with me:
"Slow is smooth - smooth is fast."
What he meant was, if you focus on getting it smooth, picking up speed comes quite easily, but if you don't get it smooth, you'll never get fast. Applies to piano or golf - just as much as it does to shooting.
Why not playing the arpeggios with 2-3-1 so that the large gap by G and C (for a C major arpeggio) is cover by 1-2 fingers?
I always wonder the same! Why not shift earlier and use the naturally wide part of the hand to reach from the G to the C
Yes better still arpeggiate the inversions right neck to each other
@davidparkes7977 I don't understand could you please clarify?
Very specific demo, unlike many others beating around bush. The best I have ever seen
More than 10 yrs ago Thomas Mark taught me in person . I bought his book before he came .
But ever buying into it until recently my wrist has pain . I realized I used too much fingers
You mentioned him in another video . All are connected. You are an Excellent communicator! I hope to see more of your demos : anything would be helpful
This was a really helpful video. Thank you! 💖
It’s just made arpeggios so much easier for me!
You have a nice variety of content. Very enjoyable. Keep up the good work!
Thank you very much!
The forearm rotation is often attributed to Taubman. It seems to be the main gist of her teaching. But the exact mechanics of the forearm rotation was describe many years before by Tobias Matthay.
I extremely love your style and techniques! I absolutely love it.❤
I started to play piano when I was 21 and all people around told me that it was too late and they were very right..to become professional pianist. At music school I was among those of 5-7 years old. It was quite funny. However i have achieved my pleasure OF PLAYING piano by a very long hours. My 'old' fingers was the hardest work. After 8 years I could play some preludes of Chopin, tocata and Fugaof Bach and even as far as lieberstraum of List.
Very good! Tx. Might I suggest putting a light over the lelft side of the keyboard to balance out the shadows and make all the keys look the same. Your lessons will look better.
I am watching your demonstrations carefully and trying to be patient about thumb going away from it or 3 over 1 and 4 over one going toward 1. I will take your word for it and try to work it for more fluency and ease. Those movements, especially the gap to the thumb, are very awkward and, of course, at snails pace reveals a big gap. Thank you for the detailed analysis down below but I still have a question based on what's being claimed and demonstrated. I will comment with those folks down below. I have watched Part 2 a number of times. Will work it more.
Dave M
Fantastic video, thank you! Very clearly explained!
Glad it was helpful!
Rotating the forearm while moving up the arpeggio (for the right hand) makes perfect sense to me as it brings your thumb further up the keyboard, but when moving down the arpeggio (from your thumb on C, down to the middle finger on G, for example), rotating your wrist clockwise doesn't really bring your fingers further down the keyboard. Do you just have to lift your whole hand and accept that there's going to be a gap in sound at that point?
Great question! The rotation in the right hand moving down the keyboard (from thumb to third finger) Will move the third finger somewhat closer, however you are right, it won't get you all the way. In fact, rotation works much better moving up in the right-hand and moving down the left-hand because that is the direction in which the arm rotates. This is also why I recommend beginning practicing hands alone with the right hand moving up the keyboard and the left hand moving down the keyboard. If you watch part 2 I get into a little bit more detail about this.
The important thing to understand here is that the rotational movement is used to get from one position to the next. As it is impossible to have a true ‘physical legato’ connection when playing arpeggios at speed, it becomes more of a “shifting” motion which is where the rotation comes in. Even though playing up the keyboard the rotation moves the thumb closer to its destination note it still won't get it all the way there and so there will be a small ‘gap’. However If we maintain proper alignment of the arm behind the hand and use rotation the shifting motion will be so fast that even though there is a tiny ‘gap’ it will be imperceptible to the ear. If you experiment with the rotation coming down the keyboard I think that you will find that it is an incredibly fast and easy movement that makes the shift in the arpeggio feel incredibly smooth and strong.
I would say when first practicing don't worry about the small gap just focus on the rotational movement. Once you have that very fluent and it feels easy and you start adding the thumb movement and building Speed, the gap will become smaller and smaller until it will be virtually non-existent.
I can say for myself, that arpeggios were always something that I struggled with when I was younger. Largely to do with the fact that when most teachers teach arpeggios they virtually only ever talk about the “thumb-tuck” or how to connect the third finger and thumb as you move to the next position. This of course only creates a large amount of tension and just makes it more difficult to play arpeggios. But when I got older and started studying with the teacher that taught me most of these ideas, I found when proper alignment and rotation are applied (to arpeggio playing for instance (let alone virtually any other kind of Passage)) suddenly virtuosic repertoire that I never thought I would ever be able to play became very playable and almost easy.
Anyways, this was a very long-winded reply, but I hope that it was helpful! Like I said, experiment with these movements and I think you will find over time as they become more familiar that it makes arpeggio playing that much easier. Anyways, thank you for the question! And thank you for your support!
@@PIANO_LAB Thanks for the detailed reply! I'll keep practicing, and I'm sure it will feel more natural over time.
I've noticed with a lot of people that the biggest problem with playing RH descending arpeggios is that they pivot on the 2nd finger. Crossing over to the 3rd finger requires a lot less movement of your wrist if you don't pivot on the 2nd finger. This applies whether you use forearm rotation or not.
@@nostromissimo Interesting. So you're saying avoid counter clockwise rotation when it's not necessary, so that you don't have to undo that movement when it's time to cross over?
@@TerebiJoke yes, for the reason you just said. I'm talking about rotation on the horizontal plane, known as lateral wrist motion, not about rotation from the forearm. Try to avoid it between 2 and 1 when descending (Also avoid it between 1 and 2 when ascending). I think many people unwittingly use a lateral wrist on 2 to 1 because that's what is best to do on a one octave arpeggio when there is no crossover to the next note. Like you imply, a lateral twist from 2 to 1 will require an even bigger twist (or in the case of this post, bigger forearm rotation) to get the 3 over. Avoiding the lateral motion means you have to rethink how to release the 2nd finger. You can use the forearm rotation suggested in this post to avoid your 2nd finger catching the side of the adjacent key, you can use finger articulation to get it to lift before it catches, or a bit of both. You can let it catch, but if you try that same technique when your 2nd finger is on a black key it will unintentionally slide off.
Thank you, Thank you, Thank You! I've been struggling and the other movements did NOT make sense to me. This helps so much!
Good info and demo , I detect piano playing style taught by Dorothy Taubman who’s piano teachings are taught by Edna golandsky which I have been watching ,which I am teaching myself this style ,where do you get this style from thanks del
I learned these concepts and ideas from my teacher who is unfamiliar with the taubman approach. I have since then studied with Golandski teachers and have formed my own approach from all of the above sources. Thanks for watching!
Hi, in this example I would start with the index finger and middle C then the long finger followed by the thumb to make the cord.
Then repeat with the middle finger on the root.
Is this the correct way to do it?
I'm pretty good at the way you showed, but it's faster with the way I just said.
I don't know if it was this or another related video, but I have taken you up on your rec to practice scales, and arps as well in contrary motion. This is helpful because it is another way to get the establish the patterns in muscle memory.
C is the easiest for obvious reasons, same fingers and no black keys. I do it for all the white sharp keys up to BM at present. E flat M is the only mixed scale that I have found which has the patterns of identical fingers at the same time. Three flats is a very common key.
Very helpful. To my point, this is part of a disciplined practice regimen, predictable, doable with success at the tempo required for mastery, one can time the session or , what I do, set the repetition patterns for each exercise, checking whether I'm ready to increase tempo by how well it was done at this tempo; a path to better musicianship and ivory tickling. Not yet Glenn Gould.
Which reminds me of an inspiration. One commentator noted how Glenn's playing "was never about him," he was in service of the musical muse, some imagined a(in)spirations greater than ourselves. A consummate artist. Quite a nice singing voice too, as he accompanies himself, even in public performances of piano works.
You clearly show that the music, and better playing of same, is THE boogey. Let's have fun!
Dave M
loved the video on Arpeggios
Great advice, thank you.
Sir i have one doubt please give reply
Can we play arpeggios for all songs or only for slow songs.??
is 2-3-1 a viable fingering for C-E-G arpeggio? I'm pretty new to piano, and there might be good reason why nobody is doing it, but it feels the least awkward to me.
Thnx for the info
Pls also make a video for best arpeggios to fit in any songs we learn
You're welcome.
Thanks for the suggestion👍
thank you so much, just exactly what i needed ❤
So I'm learning the Shostakovich Fugue No 7 and after many months of practice I still makes mistakes that occur in places that I never made mistakes before. And sometimes I feel I've never seen that measure before, almost like I'm dyslexic, I have to focus on that note to recognize it. This is the only music in which that seems to happen. Help?
I learn the piano by myself. How do you show the piano on the roof ? Do you use a program ? i want to know that how do you show the hand arms and elbos
I have tripod that I put on top of the piano looking down at the keys and a tripod on the side of the piano. Then use a program to put the footage together in a video.
Wow!!! Why isnt this a more widely taught technique for arpeggios?!?!?!
very useful. thanks
You're very welcome!
Denis Zdanov has a deeper coverage of arpeggios. Forearm rotation is not panacea
Thank you for all the great info.
You bet!
Not hardly any new vids coming; reviewing those from the past. I commented 2x on this one. I have now been developing these techniques from mainly C and others for 3-4 months. I started slowly and they came very fast. Don't think about them now. Rotation can be used better with scalar stepwise motion; arps have bigger gaps and I don't see how they can be done without the correct calibration of "lateral forearm movement," to get over the keys before twiddling. C calls it "shifting." ? His talk on the thumb is important and right on, given thumb use necessity; I can move 1 under to just about 2-3 mid max without tightening, try to stay max base of 2. Also makes for stronger knuckle bridge. You can go under some, helping get closer to position, but not too far, add some rotation, and get the hand there by lateral forearm movement in both directions, keeps the hand square to the keyboard, informs fingering. Another thing I've done as SOP is, because so much in music scores, not just preset scales and arps, is context dependent, I now play with a slightly higher wrist so the thumb can get under with more ease, especially in extreme registers. Works good. Feels great. No tension.
I had to correct slow lateral movement, wrist twisting, which leads to flying elbows, and stretching hand and fingers to hit targets. I've done this in about 4-5 months, now playing the best piano of my life. Remarkable progress. So, thanks to C and all supporters.
We feel C's sincerity and authenticity. How 'bout some new meat for the Piano nation to devour? Life happens to us all.
Excellent video!
I'm glad it was helpful!
thank you very much
Good one !
Thanks!
I viewed your part 2 video because I enjoyed very much part 1. I thought you offered better details than two other videos I've watched. However, I became lost and confused in your part 2 video. I was expecting the notes to be stated and not the: "left, right, left, right" pattern you recited. Nonetheless, I thought everything else you spoke of was helpful. Thanks.
How do you not have more subs?!
I wonder that myself haha. Thanks for watching!
I'm now incorporating this into my practice and the difference is amazing when I remember to do this
The video is very informative, but the title and description is misleading. This video discusses problems with "traditional" ways of practicing/playing arpeggios. That's really it. No technique is discussed until about the 10 min mark and very briefly at that.
Thanks for the comment. I felt that it was necessary to discuss the problems with "traditional" ways of practicing first (which just takes time) before I got to how to practice. It is a two part series so part 2 gets to the heart of how to actually practice.
I agree with you. The fellow has to earn a living and keeping the viewer to watch the whole video means more RUclips money. The guy is verbose and keeps repeating himself. There are ways to make his video interesting, he just doesn't know how, yet.
Thank you for this vidéo 😀🙏
You're very welcome!
This definitely works for fast arpeggios in post-classical music but it doesn't necessarily work for Classical or Baroque music when the tempo is slow and we're not using any pedal. I think the best solution is to manage to find the best combination of these techniques you already mentioned depending on the musical result we're looking for and also one's hand morphology... Not just sticking with only one technique and giving up on others. It is as important to play with maximum ease and fluency, as to stay within the musical context.
Great comment! I would agree that doing the music justice and adhering to correct stylistic performance practices is very important. However, I would also say that I think that being able to play with "maximum ease and fluency" is the best way to be able to stay within the musical context.
When this technique is fully learned and integrated it is so fast and efficient that even when playing slowly, the "gap" in the thumb crossing is imperceptible. But if a more "legato" sound is desired than the thumb can be extended ever so slightly so as to make the connection without stressing the muscles in the hand.
Also, since the "default" articulation in music of the Baroque and early Classical periods is detached ( non-legato), I find that this technique actually works quite well.
I think that understanding and applying rotation to arpeggio playing is the most helpful practice tip, even if a traditional "thumb under" technique is also used.
Hope that all makes sense!!
@@PIANO_LAB Thanks for taking the time to clarify that! It makes perfect sense to me. I'm learning quite a lot from you :)
Glad to help!
Great observation; both you and Craig make perfect sense to me, too. My sense is that mastery, integration, of this technique set provides more freedom of articulation, confident and more expansive expression palette, more enjoyment for player and listener, than most of what I've observed. That's why I'm sticking with it. I see where it is going. It takes a while; but if we approach it right, meaning patiently, methodically, modelling someone who has been there, following recommendations, not skipping steps, we note progress toward the goal of more expressive playing with the least amount of effort. For me it's a simple case of "giving up on" what doesn't work for me, as I would like it to. Sounds great, looks good, quiet strength of confidence. Not enough of that in the world.
Great point, too: Hand morphology, most people have slight differences, some instance could be present custom issues. My forearms still require more lateral movement=new muscle memory, overwriting previous default habits. This is a big one for me, changing position by moving the forearm constantly in-to best position, not just the hands, fingers, elbows or shoulders. Lots of new distances to learn, fortunately how to get there is simple if not easy, the basic pattern is uniform, can be used anywhere.
I still have a question about the monster supination of the hand putting thumb under on bigger intervals like the 4th, arpeggio land, perhaps training the thumb cross for even bigger intervals. Challenge for a singer to accept the realities of piano physics. My own analogy helped me. It appears as a practice technique only.
Will study Part 2 again. Arpeggios are a seminal structural reality in music.
Thank you, all.
Dave M
Too much talk I think. 4:50 show started
Thanks for your feedback! I think that what I said was necessary as the most coordinated and efficient way to practice arpeggios is to truly understand what works and what doesn't and so I felt that I needed to explain this.
Should you avoid looking down while practicing arpeggios?
Yes, you should avoid tipping you head down while practicing as this will make you neck very sore!
Your intro was very appealing. Finally a video that focus on the essential problems...
However, my 2nd finger lacks of accuracy and wanted to know how to fix that. E. g. playing octaves or larger intervals on 5, 2 like on this video: ruclips.net/video/Z3bNAvaQihA/видео.html
D-D-Bb, C-D-Bb and even G-D-Bb
Is it just practice or is there a secret trick to improve accuracy?
Thanks for the ocean Etude, but rotation doesn't work well for the left hand . Rotation only works good for the right hand .
Do you review viewer's piano play , I would love to send you my play of ocean etude so you might know which problems do I have ?
That is a great suggestion! I actually have thought about reviewing subscribers playing and commenting on it as a educational video series.
You're welcome! I will be posting the video soon. I think that rotation works equally well for both hands. As both the Right and Left hand are anatomically the same, the LH works the same but opposite to the RH.
A lot of talking... "lesson" starts at 10:00 probably best to just watch part 2
Actually starts at 10 mins ruclips.net/video/8Ke8TG1hn7Y/видео.html
hmmm
Man. I definitely live in the ignorance.
get a teacher!
This doesn't work at fast tempo, that's why there's no demonstration
Actually, there's no "up to tempo" demonstration because if I was to do such you wouldn't it be able to see it because the movements are so small at speed. It does indeed work at tempo.. If you don't believe me that's fine but that is the only way that I've been able to play arpeggios at extreme speeds. 💯
@@PIANO_LAB that’s why you do the tutorial- discuss the movements and demonstrate at a slow tempo and then do it much faster to show that it works. Would you do a clip showing the arpeggios played hands together up and down the keyboard at a fast tempo?
You showed the mechanics of executing arpeggios, but never showed you playing FULL arpeggios... so, I you didn't know how to play them this would not show you the finished results..
this is the pits are you going to play or just talk all the time.
It took him 20 minutes to say “rotate your forearm…” 🙄
Can you first explain what is "Arpeggio?"
Your forearms look beautiful, do you workout?
I cant.
Dude Jesus Christs spit it out talk talk and said nothing
That could have been a 2 min video… duh DELETE
You talk to much!
Why thank you kind sir!
Time wasting only with too much talking
One cannot learn without listening🤫
Omg this guy likes to talk.
this could of been 3 minutes omg
Probably but what’s wrong with in depth discussion? Kids impatient today
In my opinion, he speaks a lot and explain nothing or very little.
too much talking