Concerns About Native Plants, Toby Hemenway, author of Gaia's Gardens and Permaculture Instructor
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- permies.com Toby Hemenway shares his perspective on native plants. He is a powerful advocate of native plants. And, at the same time, is concerned that the passions of some other native plant advocates might lead down a path that is not as good for native plants. Specifically, the planting of exclusively native plants vs. planting of an edible garden.
Toby also explores the idea of "native to when?" with a focus on douglas fir trees.
Relevant threads at permies:
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music by Jimmy Pardo
I can agree except I planted 2 different natives in my yards a couple years ago and I have seen pollinators I have never seen before, plus a hummingbird!
you might have had the same result with a similar non-native.
interesting discussion, but I think the premise that native landscaping is causing an increase in conversion of habitat to farmland is rather weak. besides, if you have the space, you can grow natives AND food (just not together; use hydrozones). also, native plants in landscaping provide valuable habitat to many birds and pollinators... if you plant it, they most often WILL come!
What an amazing perspective!
very good, alot of these thoughts reflect the same thinking I have had myself, nice to hear a little further thinking I had not progressed to. PS just a thought, i heard that corn is not entirely natural but the result of hybridization or domestication of a wild annual, so really is corn "native" to any climate?
very practcial n sensible.
Great interview, and on native I will stick with BIll Mollison himself on this, he says and I quote, "I use 100% native plants, they are all native to planet earth".
I also like what Marjory Wildcraft says in her video, "If something invasive is edible, feeds my wildlife, provides me food or resources or fixes nitrogen, then please invade us".
There is much wisdom in this video!
Your expression of our overall goals resonates with me. But I've been watching hours of permaculture videos and have never heard this basic rule of picking natives first, and have definitely never heard to choose a non-invasive non-native. So goody for you. Perhaps you ALL need to say that louder. On the other hand, it seems like a losing battle.
But just because somebody thought it was a native but it isn't is not an argument. Douglas fir argument is odd.
That said, there are many decisions that one has to make to balance all these and other consideration. It's complicated for sure.
Native Plants, Toby Hemenway and Permaculture is the video I watched.
@gardenfarmer i made a comment not appropriate for youtube. :)
@ahnamay Although I totally agree that more food can be produced with certain non-native plants than with natives, I believe that a more than ample amount of food can be grown from native plants with no extra input of water, fertilizer etc. As to land use, I think there would still be enough land for everything else, besides food production and wildlife habitat, that we need it for. Also, let it be noted that I do not advocate everybody growing all native plants.
This was created or posted about 11 years ago. I think he might be extremely pleased and surprised how many people and more all the time actually are researching native plants and pollinators and how much of a difference having these native plant islands does help. It's a growing movement, even in urban areas. I love his work, and agree with a lot of what he is saying, but folks like Doug Tallamy are not wrong either.
Wow, please consider reading Nature’s Best Hope for a better perspective and current research. This perspective misses out on the whole possibility and benefits of growing native with edibles. I wish he hadn't addressed the topic at all.
the term 'native' plants is ver misleading. all plants started as invasive. When do ya want to go back in time and stop the the clock to call this or that plant native? native only means it grew her at that stopage of time. before that it came as an invasive. the natural way the world works.
@outdoorlunatic Perhaps it's possible, though still not very probable, (How many folks will switch to eating/pounding their own camas or acorn flour instead of buying a ready-made pizza?) When we're talking food production, I also imagine some non-natives are more efficient at producing edibles, thereby using less land and less resources (water, fertilizer, etc.) than even the natives.
@ahnamay Who said anything about ready-made pizza? I thought we were talking about growing our own food, which means a lot of extra work whether you grow natives or non-natives. In answer to your question about "eating/pounding" camas or acorn flour, unless you're a caveman I don't think the pounding part will be necessary.
Yeah, that huckleberry thing stuck with me, too. It would be a natural disaster if everyone headed to the high country to collect the huckleberries they would need if everyone ate huckleberries. There is pressure enough already from commercial pickers--the bears who need the berries are having a harder time finding what they need. I don't believe there is enough appropriate land for everyone to grow their own, either.
In my mind Toby seems to be almost totally overlooking a very important point. The idea of growing all native, and at the same time, all edible plants. I say almost totally overlooking, because he does mention eating native huckleberries and camass flour. However, this seems to be a side note. I firmly believe that, in many areas, it is very possible to grow all native plants and still eat plenty and very well from those plants even on urban and suburban lots.
Nicely put. I used to make a similar point about choices like not wearing/ eating wild products, when your artificial substitutes are made in a factory that displaced a bayou somewhere else. I don't think it's enough to just hope that some land elsewhere returns to the wild. Nature Conservancy is one active option; also, we love to visit the farms or buy from local growers who share our passion for the land (with way deeper knowledge!)
got a lot from this, have a permaculure project in a beautiful nautral reserve...here in baja...and i germinate natives from seed as well...it's wonderful to find someone with your very developed knowledge and interests. I grow my own food as well...combine conservation with some vegetable beds. let's be friends too...
a lot of sense spoken here, couldn't we share the joke at the end, made toby laugh, probably paul acting up:)
Even when taking a dip in the water, Toby is ever the scientist talking about our bodies' water composition! Love it!
@paulwheaton12 It was awesome to see his reaction on the video! What a fun time.
I''m so glad there are rich people out there to save us poor folk from oatmeal, and plant some neethive plants.
green IS the new red, TRADE IS GOOD!
good points