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Can a Christian be perfect while here on earth? - Tim Conway
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2009
- MP3: illbehonest.com/Can-a-Christia...
Is sinless perfection biblical?
Grace Community Church
San Antonio, Texas
gccsatx.com
The author of Amazing Grace, the wretch and former slave trader John Newton, complemented this sermon with the observation, “I am not what I ought to be, I am not what I want to be, I am not what I hope to be in another world; but still I am not what I once used to be, and by the grace of God I am what I am.”
Wow now this is a perfectly balanced teaching on sinless perfection that was needed. Especially of late.
Thanks Pastor Tim for your faithfulness!
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Romans 6:11-12 KJV
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: But whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
Proverbs 28:13 KJV
Wow, very helpful in my study of being perfect according to the Bible! Thank you for sharing!
What a hope it is to know that his grace is sufficient for us to overcome sin!!!
There is not one sin that we have to commit. We have a choice and God gives us power to be victorious over sin.
If someone is drowning, and I pull them close to the shore, but I don't pull them all the way out of the water, I haven't saved them at at.
People who claim to be saved, but who are still in the "water" either haven't been taught about true salvation, or they love sin more than they love God so they prefer to stay in it.
For revival to come to our world, we have to live and broadcast true salvation! Lift Jesus up through his saving power and ppl will come unto him.
The world is full of watered down, sugar-coated preaching. We need to get back to the good old gospel and stop making excuses for our flesh. The bible is clear that without holiness, we will not see God.
Who’s holiness? Ours? Or Christs?
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Titus 2:11-14
This to be done while alive in this world
Difference between children of God and children of devil....
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1 John 3:10 KJV
Why did Jesus come in the flesh? Is it not to takeaway our sin? Are we going to continue in sin and deny the grace of God? Are you in Christ? Then know that IN HIM THERE IS NO SIN.
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1 John 3:4-5 KJV
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6:1-2 KJV
It is even forbidden us to think that we can be under the grace of God and be continuing in sin.
Cursed be the man who trusts in another man. If we are servants of God then we should know that a servant is not greater than his Lord.
What is impossible with man is POSSIBLE WITH GOD.
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
James 4:7-10 KJV
But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
James 4:6 KJV
Amen-- you love God's truth, may He bless you more.
Matthew 1:21 says "…he [Jesus] shall SAVE his people from their SINS." This verse tells us that Jesus saves us from our sins; He does not save us while we continue in our sins. Romans 6:17-18, 22 says, "…ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made FREE from SIN, ye became the servants of righteousness...But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." These verses tell us we all start as slaves to sin, but if we obey the doctrine or teachings of Jesus, we can be set free from sin. The proof of being saved is being dead to our old sinful life and obeying Lord Jesus with a new righteous and holy life. Salvation is not thinking and claiming that you will go to heaven while attending church services and continuing in sin. Salvation is being made free from sin and this is evident with righteous and holy deeds, fruits and works in your present life.
Jesus is now omnipotent God as the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, and if you seek Him, He will appear in your life to free you from your sins. Acts 3:26 says, "Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning AWAY every one of you from his INIQUITIES." The most valuable blessing you can receive from Lord Jesus Christ is for Him to turn you away from your sinning nature, to free you from your sinful intentions and desires. If Jesus frees you from sin, you are no longer enslaved to continue committing sin. You are converted to love and do that which is good and righteous, and hate and stop doing that which is evil and unrighteous. 1 John 3:7-8, 10 says, "…let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he [God] is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose, the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil… In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God." These verses tell us that sin is the work of the devil, and Jesus’s very purpose is to destroy the work of the devil. Jesus’s purpose is to save His people from their sin, and that is freeing His people from doing sin.
These are not translations, but interpretations that he is reading. I am Biblical Greek scholar and these are flat out abuses of the Greek Scriptures into English. Those verses do not mention "perfection", but "completion". Changing that word completely alters your theology. It does not say "from one degree of glory to another" at all. And many other places he erred purposely to deceive you. I guess it is time to produce a video exposing Tim Conway as a false teacher and lay bare his tactics of deception. Even this highly offensive English rendering of the Greek in the sign behind him shows the level of compromise and ignorance. The word in the Scriptures is not "ransom". In fact, if you believe in a ransom, then penal substitution is nullified. It is either one or the other, but not both. They are exclusive ideas to each other. But this word "ransom" in the Greek "lutron" is a tool to loosen. From the contexts of its use it is the death of Christ, which is the tool for us to use to loosen the ropes of sin, the bondage, so we no longer have to obey sin. There is no price being paid to the devil for you or to God for you. The early church fathers had a problem solving that conundrum and failed. But they had already rejected the idea that is plainly laid out in Scripture that you are called to cease your sin and you are expected to and you are able to through the death of Christ. So stop sinning. Don't listen to pastor Conway's tricks to keep you ever trying and never succeeding. Just stop it.
You save yourself by evolving into a state of sinlessness.
Who says?
Yes, I am happy we finally got this question on the internet, and God gave Tim great grace, and verses to prove the point.
Such encouraging teaching. Thank you so much for posting.
Bro. Tim thank you for such a great response to that question. Some great verses from scripture. I never looked at John 17:6 in that way before thank you .
God Bless
oh my goodness, praise God!!! i almost started crying while watching this. as a young pastor i started touching this subject a couple months ago, because i ran into this in 1 john (4 times he says it!) and the senior pastor began a movement against me to get me expelled (where no adulterer in the worship group ever was). the movement failed, but the damage was done, and we left the church.
this message is vindication from the Lord. we CAN do it! make war with your sin!! for the Glory of God!
How refreshing the teaching of the whole counsel of God is to the spirit! Bro.Tim, God is using you and the other brothers at illbehonest to edify the Body of Christ. It's a privilege to receive such sound doctrine, seasoned with the Love of our Savior and Lord Jesus Christ. May He continue to protect, strengthen and embolden all of you so that you may continue to proclaim his Truth. 2 Tim. 4:1-5
Ton of truth in here also for many, many, many reformed people who live with a defeatist mentality.
Sin wants to reign in our mortal body, but the body itself is not sinful. It is a heart issue not the physical body. The body is something that can be used as a tool to commit sins. Your body rejects sin: the first alcoholic drink, our body takes it as an attack on your system by hangovers, etc. Sex outside of marriage: aid or disease. Lying: heart beat, face turns red, the looking down, etc. The body is not the problem, the Heart is and/or our Character.
Thank you, that gives me hope.
“Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark of the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.” - Philippians 3:12-14
I dont practice sin, but sometimes I do fall. pray for me
Romans 8:29,30- "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate (predetermine) to be conformed to the image of his son."-- Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Amen. I was in the same boat at one point.
Good teaching. If Christ told us to be perfect I think he meant that we should be, or at least try to be.
Arminians I have talk don't teach that you r unable to sin, nor when they say they r perfect or "I'm living righteous, I haven't sinned" does not mean they r proclaiming that they have never sinned. Nor do they say they live righteous by their own will power: through Christ. Just because one says they haven't sinned after salvation doesn't make automatically mean they r selfrighteous or a Pharasees(who focused on outward piety, instead of within their hearts). The body is not sinful btw.
The most godly Christians who have ever lived were not those who boasted about being “perfect in the flesh,” but rather were those who moaned over the sinfulness of their flesh. Nowhere in the Bible do the writers ever claim perfection in the flesh. Why, even in the spiritual realm, the Apostle Paul had this to say, even after he had been saved for a great number of years -
Having compassion for someone and you find out they tricked you is not a sin-Joshua. 9:14-15-see this type of perfection we won't attain-knowing everything but morally joshua did no wrong.
1 John 1:8
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
Thanks man, it sounds alot easier now, I glad to know that I'm not the only one. That I can be forgiven for even my thoughts, because I've even cursed out God's Spirit in my mind before, not intentionally, but my thoughts just blurted it out. I regret doing so so much, I hope the Holy Spirit will forgive me, there's NOTHING bad to say about the Holy Spirit, but there shouldn't be, even if we can be forgiven for it. anything bad to think about Him either. Thank you man, I'll read my bible-
I believe perfection is being sensitive to sin and growing in repentance. Its not sinless its being sensitive to it that causes you not to want to sin, but instead turn from it.
When dealing with this topic, I like to eplain it this way. Technically it's possible in the since that now as Christians we possess all the needed capabilities to make it possible, also we now are no longer under bondage to Sin as Romans chapter 6 makes clear, However whats possible and whats probable are two different story's. Taking into account that we also still retain a depraved & sinful nature, which will remain until our death, and then and only then will perfection be attained! ~Lee
A perfect child of God is Jesus an example for us all, as well as to show us our Father and our relationship.
The law always demands perfection. Whether it be God's law or man's law makes no difference. All law demands perfection in following it.
Matthew 5:48, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
How can I be perfect?
Hebrews 5:9, "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY him;"
OBEDIENCE is the KEY!
@socksumi ..God is perfect. He sent His Holy Spirit to be in us. When we are led by His Spirit, we do not sin, because God is not the author of sin. That is how He saves us from sin and not in sin. As it is written, Whoever is led by the Spirit, these are the children of God.
He would have power if He would omit these words; ''I DON'T THINK'' and just speak the Word;
Joh 7:18 "He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him.
Jesus commands us to be perfect. Did He command something that is impossible? Can You go 5 minutes without sin?
Yes....but can a bad tree become a good tree if it tries and believes in Jesus enough?
Dude, I didn't say God does it for me, I just said that I hope grace falls on me so I can be saved. I know He saves me for Christ and for His glory, I just want to be saved, but how can I repent when I haven't responded to the Gospel, and I know your warnings, that if I don't repent then I will go to hell under the judgement, that's true. I also want to see God before judgement day.
@gtoutofthawrld ,and how many 'sins' equal practice? God isn't confined to time so please hearken, it doesn't matter how often or less one fall(sin), it's always habitual to God if the believer hasn't ceased from sin(The Spirit will guide you)...1 Peter 4:1,2 & 2 Peter 1: 4-10...I pray your ears are open to hear, God Bless you & may God's will be to 'heal' you.
@NobodySpecial85
The false doctrine that we inherited Adam's sin is destructive to knowing we can obey. Mt 18:2 Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, "Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. That child does not have a sin nature.
1 John 1 : 8 "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." (NIV) If you think you are without sin, You do not know what sin is! Your every deed, your every word & your every thought! must be (not just ok) but as perfect as Jesus was & is. You had better make sure that on the judgement day you are clothed with the righteousness of Christ and that what you believe to be your "moral perfection" has long since been discarded as the rubbish that it truly is!
@Itrytotestify
What is he saying then?
Thanks for the advice, does that mean I can be forgiven for having bad thoughts, even if some were about God or even the Holy Spirit? I'm not saying I would ever say anything bad about God or the Holy Spirit, but what if I can't be forgiven for the thoughts, please write me back, God bless, I want to be a christian, but it will be hard to let go of all the worldly things I love doing.
If you repent and give your life to The Lord Jesus . And get to Heaven The things God Has in Heaven For his children will be WAAAY BETTER THAN ANY THING ON THIS PLANET HAS TO OFFER , And Heaven s for ever
@GodsSeer You are correct that we do not have a sinful nature. Our nature is a complex sum of many variable traits. Yes, are imperfect. But only a sadistic monster could demand perfection from a species which is imperfect by nature. To hold man guilty in a matter where no innocence is possible is a mockery of justice and reason.
There is a difference between a Christian committing a sin, and living in a habitual, unrepentant sinful lifestyle. For example, getting drunk once is not like regularly going out to get drunk
People with no record of biblical fall(after the baptism of Holy Ghost{they personally being baptised} and resurrection)
1.Mary Mother of Jesus(I'm not catholic)
2. Stephen
3.Phillip
4.Apollos
5.James-first martyr
6. There are loads more.
is the question from shai linne?...sounds like thas what he said
@truegospelofchrist Romans 3:25 is referring to the sins that were washed away by the shedding of animal sacrifices. God in His graciousness made it possible or provided a way out by the sacrificing of animals. Even though He had no pleasure in them and it was temporary. Christ was the perfect sacrifice once and for ALL! Under the old covenant righteousness was demanded through works (Gal 3:13, that's why the law is not of faith), under the New Covenant righteousness is given (i.e it's a gift)!
wow im not sure about this one
@Palindrome700 I just watch closely because Matthew 7:15 says beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. I also watch closely for hand signs because there are satanic hand signs that people use that i have become aware of and I see him use them and I wonder if it's purposefully or not. Satan will use people to spread the wrong message to deceive people. I'm not sure if thats the case in this instance so I asked and yet to get a reply
@MrSpongeBobfatpants You asked plenty of Good questions. That are easy to answer, but to long to type. First question was can any finite human walk like Jesus? Answer: only those who truly are his will have his ability his Sheep.Luke 6:40. Are you walking in the light as he is in the Light? 1John 1:7 . How long do you think it would take for one to be fully converted? If it's death then scriptures will be a lie. We know that sin is not in heaven. Rev3:10 He will keep you from temptation.
So basically "Amenians" and "Calvinist" believe the same thing, but the difference is that one says you can loose you salvation at the slightest imperfect moment and the other says a True Christian cannot loose it. Right?
@GodsSeer The "order" you speak of is actually is a product of human perception; it's our way of conceptualizing the nature of the universe. It's in OUR nature to perceive order. If you claim that a mind without a brain created it--you face the same dilemma when asked how did your complex god of "order" come to exist.
The "heavens" declare nothing--it is only you doing the declaring--not out of reason but out of desire. Such wishful thinking is the motivation for every kind of god belief.
your Bible isn't like mine 1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.--how many different scriptures does God have?
Well, I hope that grace falls on me soon, later.
@polopowers1 . what are you saying? You say that a sinless person will have trouble in the flesh and blood and so he will be sinning!!! If the redeemed person sins it is no longer he that sins!!! Are you in the sound mind?
Christians are not perfect in this life, but God is transforming them to become more and more like Christ. If they sin, they can confess their sin to God and He will forgive and cleanse them. Christians must pray every moment, yes, and it is a privilege to talk to God!
Let "every" man be a liar and God be "true"...Through Jesus ALL things are possible...Jesu is ultimately our example. Or am already perfect, Paul was speaking about thr resurrection of the dead as explained in the previous verse, then a few verse down he says BE perfect...I wouldn't mind speaking w/ you over the phone.
I don't assume cause they are not recorded but I don't assume they did.I whole heartily believe stephen and others achieved moral perfection-paul also -i beleive bought time he died he acheived it.After saved God seees both eviln and good .God records everything.and that scrip against Johnathan does not show asin of joshua.God does record r sin -see the lukewarm church in revelations-we have to repent and turnfrom our sins still and he 's faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us
How the heck can Christians be perfect?!! So if they sin then a curse will be upon them or they are NOT christian at all? Man Christians must have to pray everyday every moment then huh? I'm just asking to be honest I'm not a christian but hope to be someday. Someone please tell me, thanks.
@tammychynn Read philippian 3:10-16. Christ modelled for us what is POSSIBLE through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit! God bless
Oh, okay, thanks. Can I be forgiven for saying something very bad though? I just want to know, text me back, see ya.
It is attainable what wrong did Stephen due.he was so sold out to the spirit he said forgive them for they no not what they do.You think one who can do such things in the midst of this have a vice.he was completely spiritual-mature-perfect from what we've read in the bible.Moral perfection is possible.
So Tim Conway are you telling us you no longer sin?
Technically, we are all born into sin because of the original Adamic sin, so perfection is undone from the beginning.
@polopowers1 . "Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God;" Why do you purposely tell the lie of the devil saying that Christ died for the SIN THAT ARE PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE?
@socksumi ,,There is much evidence for Creator. The heavens declare it, Nature proves it and no one is without excuse.
God IS perfect. There is an order to all things not man made. Angels have been seen, manifestations of Heavenly beings have been shown to many, and it is not just in the mind. Many were unexpected, Prophesies prove God exists.
to beleave and teach sinless perfectionism om this life in these fallen bodies is straight from the Devil to discourage those foolish enough to try in their own power and might to cause them to crash and burn in their faith and walk with the Lord and also to cause others outside the faith to mock and ridicule the obvisous hypocracy in thier life's.
@truegospelofchrist So how did God forgive sinners in the past? God was gracious in the past as He is now in the present. God is fair and just in declaring us righteous now as He was in the past. Of course the remission of sins deals with past sins! That's why animal sacrifices were temporary. But Christ's is eternal! Read Hebrews 10! Read Romans 3 in context and meditate, that might help.
@winstonk400 . It is not forgiven sins in the past. But remission of sins that are past. You want me to read Heb 10. Let me quote it for you. “Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” You are ignorant and confused. May God have mercy.
@MrSpongeBobfatpants I will watch it again to make sure I heard clearly. Right now I believe he is double minded. Some thing sound good and is true but not all. I will explain later. If I am wrong an misunderstood I will recant my postings.
@MrSpongeBobfatpants Hey said we can not obtain perfection because your in the flesh scriptures will refute that statement Romans 8:1 And who is John Wesley compare to Christ. What did Jesus say about sinning 1John3:8,Rev 3:10-12. If your still sinning are you overcoming. In one moment he said you cannot then he said you can James 1:8 with a man made natural explanation. He is extremely deceptive concerning Gods word. Do me a favor and watch Truecore08 and other preachers that teach perfection.
@MrSpongeBobfatpants Yes, I do believe the Bible is the Perfect Word of God
sometime, and hopefully repent. Peace, to Christ be the glory.
@polopowers1 . It is still funny. 1 John 3:9 says he cannot sin. You say that a man cannot but sin and quote 1 John 3:9. Are you out of your mind?
the real Bible doesn't say what Conway said. 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God
@winstonk400 . Not only you are totally ignorant, you are lazy even to read one verse. Rom 3:25. You said that it refers to animal sacrifice. “Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in HIS blood, to declare his righteousness for the REMISSION OF SINS THAT ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God;” Does Jesus appears to be an animal to you?
@polopowers1 . Until your sinning become past your sinning will not be forgiven. Your present and future sins will take you to hell. God says, " the remission of SINS THAT ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God;" Even that is because God forbears. You cannot fool God. You may fool people, or even fooled by people. Your logic is not the word of God. God did not say that your present and future sins will be forgiven. The devil says that. But, you like it and believe the devil.
@tabbath27 I believe you are honestly seeking truth. That is why I'm going to direct you to some brothers who can answer all your questions. With out me teaching you. There are a view videos on my site. explaining your questions. Also Holyspiritdwells, Truecoreo8, lildog73, beyeperfectbeyeholy and many more that are true gospel teachers. Walking without sin on Earth is not a new message God/ Jesus has taught this from the beginning of time. If you truly Hate your sins this is attainable.
We are not more than conquerors because we are losing the battle of sin? We died to sin, how can we live in it any longer? We can't. It's impossible. John states. We ignore verses like this. So they are unwilling to step into what they don't know to be sin?
Paul said "What fellowship does light have with darkness," but I believe and find that people in the 'church' are people in the world, the same or worse.
I see you're making the cornuto, horned-devil sign, you're Illuminati?
No, no, no, 'Pastor Tim,' Jesus said to be perfect, "as your heavenly father is perfect". He wouldn't give us a command we couldn't follow: Jesus, read the word, or scripture, Jesus didn't say "Believe in me" at that time, and that will make you perfect, he didn't say "I am perfect therefore you don't have to be". We're perfected in Christ, but not practically? If so why make the command?
If Christians are whoremongers and you say they don't need to change for good, why be a "Christian"?
@maria39208 Thats called Calvinism, and the Bible doesn't teach that. God gives all of us a free will, to love or to hate, to accept Jesus' sacrifice or to reject it,to do good or to do evil....we all face consequences for our actions-true, but we all have a choice to follow God or the Devil.....
The concept of "original sin" is the most vicious, evil and anti-life idea ever to poison the mind of man. Self-immolation, guilt and hatred for life on this earth are what these fundamentalist fuckers want to instill in you. One the their cult has sufficiently broken you down and destroyed you self-worth while you wallow in guilt over every little thing that brings you enjoyment---they've got you---a nice piece of molding clay, perfect for establishing their ultimate goal of theocracy.
Did you watch the video or are you willingly inane?
joshua never did anything wrong.
PasterTimmy-Stop Being Honest about TalkingDonkeys and FryingAngels NOW!!
Everybody KNOWS in this 21st Century that ANGELS DEW NOT FRY!!! hehehe!!
(kenyewwalkonwaderlikejesus?jestdewitnownownow!!)
@GodsSeer The term 'perfect' is a meaningless concept unless used in a specific context---perfect in a specific way---it is simply a subjective human construct.
The other numerous concepts of"god" they are also human constructs and purely imaginary. There is no evidence for deities--only human wishful thinking and projection--an attempt to fill in the gaps for what we don't understand about reality. The primitive bronze age nonsense known as the bible has been transcended by science and reason.
Wow this is a sick and perverse message no wonder so many are lost. The blind led the blind they shall both fall into the ditch. You are what you believe.