Being forced to put your long hair into a bun is not abusive by any means. Its a safety issue. If your hand land on top of your hair during a skill thats goung to cauae problems. Plus long hair has a higher chance of getting caught on the equipment.
This!! I also don’t think saying “do it like Emma does it” is abuse. Sometimes you have to use other athletes as an example you try not to but some athletes can learn by example
Worth noting, there was an athlete of theirs who said they weren't allowed to have water bottles in the gym. I do have to say, real quick Cris's comment about the marathon, I am a marathon runner, and everybody jokes at me about how crazy it is. This is normal. Though her reason was personal, everyone thinks marathon runners are not ok.
Trust me. I am not disagree that they are problematic. However, I don't see how directing a gymnast to watch another's technique or execution of a skill/vault and saying "Do it like Emma does it." is even "borderline" abusive.
Agreed. He has said some blatantly wrong things - especially with the racial comments which I think show ignorance. But I think we are going way overboard with what is considered “verbal abuse” versus joking around that isn’t coming from a place of malice although could tug at certain insecurities a person has and to them be hurtful. (Which is why it is so important to know your gymnast and keep the lines of communication always open.) Listening to these comments without watching the documentary seem pretty bad but watching the tone and how he’s interacting with the gymnasts gives a different impression. (Not saying they were all okay - not at all - but it seems that everything everyone has ever done and said in the gymnastics world is being picked apart without considering context and the ability to change and learn - if I were a coach I’d be afraid to breath the wrong way).
@@Ajay.Plants A. I would say the manner in which that "school" treated those girls in every way, including that awful pyramid, was why they suffered damage to their self esteem and PTSD. B. If I had a gymnast that was having issues getting a certain skill, or I believed the skill, if they already had it, could be improved; I don't see anything wrong with pointing out another gymnast who is demonstrating the proper way to do said skill. I don't think it's out of line to say, "I know you can get this. We're almost there. Look, check out Lindsay as she does it. See how she has her arms locked out and up at her ears? That's what I was saying before. See how it helps her block through, instead of over? You can do that and when you do and get comfortable with it, it's going to make upgrade progression a lot easier."
That is page out of the Karolyi book . Bella used to pin them against each other for motivation. It's the way he did and the way he framed it that is unhealthy. There is a much better way to go about that
Just found your channel ! I'm hooked . I saw the Flo doc. I thought same thing . Kids that age ( especially sheltered gymnasts ) may not understand the sarcasm and take it quite literally. That's Chris passive aggressive way of insulting the girls.
As a former coach I would check what I said to the girls. Sometimes these kids become family and they get the jokes but not everyone “gets it”. I had to watch my sarcasm.
I am a huge fan of Kim Zmeskal. I always have been. And anyone still can be. And we can all still feel the same way about gymnastics that she has done in her career. That won't ever be changed. But it does not protect her from scrutiny regarding her coaching methods or her husband's coaching methods. She was brought up in a toxic gym environment. And then she proceeded to have to coach within that same system. They were all sucked into a program of dominate or die. And it produced one of the greatest tragedies of all times... And I have seen that behind the routine episode. And I will tell you that those comments that her husband make are very cringy and uncomfortable. He calls them Shamu or something like that. Equating them to a whale. He's not explicitly calling them fat. But that's a bad association to make. And also the passive aggressive comments that he makes to get his gymnast irritated to motivate them. That's also not acceptable. Coming from a grown man to girls under his supervision. That's there on the tapes. And that's even the edited version. God knows what was said without cameras there. I've never seen bad behavior out of Kim on any footage of her as a coach. Which does show quite a strong amount of self-control that hopefully carries out at all times. Because Bela and the rest of the coaches of her era certainly didn't behave themselves. So I'll give her that. But we can't give this woman a pass because we love her or we loved her or we loved her gymnastics. Those are two different things.
Yeah those Shamu comments are terrible. And he can't possibly actually think or is consciously thinking that he is calling them fat. Because these are tiny little girls. Junior some of them are all of them. But that doesn't mean that he doesn't realize that he is equating them to whales. And the mind of a impressionable girl in this world who is going through her teenage years is going to take that statement the wrong way and it could damage her for a very long time if not permanently. So that is a man not understanding his privilege and his position of power and his indifference to the feelings of these young women. I'm not even going to call them women they're girls. So regardless if that was malicious or not. Some people need to learn the proper way to speak to young children especially girls. And those comments are unacceptable.
Bailey Key and Regan Thompson ..who knows what goals they could have reached of they were trained in a positive and safe trainig environment . It makes me so very sad .
Kim is a Legend!!! Inspired a nation when she became 1st World All Around World Champion. The Karolys and Zmeskal shaped future gymnasts dreams and even everyday people like me to work harder for their future. The USA is gonna go down with this mentality of all soft talk wins… let Russia or China win then… or Brazil or Japan. To think the international judges are going to subjectively judge mediocre athletes to win. You’re fooling yourself. Russia and Brazil just won the last 2 World AAs… keep up your videos beating up the USA coaches and we’ll end up like Romania with no Team members good enough to qualify at Worlds or the Olympics.
Lordy this girl sound like she’s telling a spooky Frankenstein story🤣🤣🤣. I think you’re right, since Kim’s gym has the same issues as ALL OF THE OTHER Elite programs in the WORLD, we should just end the sport. 😂 This expert is saying so! She also doesn’t realize that in each Country there is the elusive Bela Karolyi character who jump started their sport and catapultes their Country into Olympic stardom thanks to their drive, determination and confidence to get the job done. This girl doesn’t know this. 😂Every Country has a beginning and an end as far as gymnastics is concerned I guess, maybe let’s follow her cue, let’s let the USA stop now before we fail this young lady and another gymnast could fall short of her goals in gymnastics, AKA we all must be Olympians or else. 😂 At all costs blame it on the coach yet again. 😂 Definitely never take any blame when you are a teen cause you’re a TEEN. 😂 Just think if Bela and Martha weren’t around when Simone showed up on the scene do you realize there would be no Coach educated enough to even take her to the Olympics, let alone with the skill set she brought. Ask her X coach Amy, they got plenty of help from coaches trained Karolyi style and even then she wasn’t disciplined enough to take on the ranch. Lucky for Simone she was the GOAT in this case. Before Bela and Martha, the USA gymnastic was so low it couldn’t even take a team. We just had individuals and they weren’t very good. I think Kathy Rigby was our first somewhat competitive gymnast. It took Bela to get us recognized as a legitimate competitive team at the Olympics. Man! You young video stars need background checks cause you know nothing about the History of USA gymnastics. You also know nothing about marketing. If it wasn’t for The Karolyi’s we’d still be miserable, TV networks would not even carry us, our athletes would do no endorsements, books, tours, commercials ads and our College team wouldn’t be loaded with Elites either, again no TV coverage, so yeah, go get an education before spouting off nonsense. News flash, the Russian coaches we have now, they came because of where Bela took us. He put us on the map. Without him the Russians would have go the Europe or Canada, but no they came here. Bela made gymnastics here a GOLD RUSH for aspiring young Worldly coaches. Yeah, love him or hate him, HE DID THAT!!! And you are bashing our sport, breaking it down and it has come sooooooo far without you! Wonder what your story is😂I bet we can all bash you if you’ll just be honest😂 I bet you’ve made some hum dinger mistakes.
Oh no.... they were forced to put their hair in a bun & told to " do it like Emma does it" when Emma's technique was flawless...... wow, how abusive. This is one of the most absurd videos I've watched in a very long time.
The Karolyis are not bad. Its all selfish gymnasts or those that had mental issues. None of the gymnasts that trained with them in the start of it all have no complaints its the entitled younger ones. To be the best you must get tough training to get you past yourself. Those who make it can handle it, those who never will complain.
Being forced to put your long hair into a bun is not abusive by any means. Its a safety issue. If your hand land on top of your hair during a skill thats goung to cauae problems. Plus long hair has a higher chance of getting caught on the equipment.
This!! I also don’t think saying “do it like Emma does it” is abuse. Sometimes you have to use other athletes as an example you try not to but some athletes can learn by example
Worth noting, there was an athlete of theirs who said they weren't allowed to have water bottles in the gym. I do have to say, real quick Cris's comment about the marathon, I am a marathon runner, and everybody jokes at me about how crazy it is. This is normal. Though her reason was personal, everyone thinks marathon runners are not ok.
Trust me. I am not disagree that they are problematic. However, I don't see how directing a gymnast to watch another's technique or execution of a skill/vault and saying "Do it like Emma does it." is even "borderline" abusive.
True
Agreed. He has said some blatantly wrong things - especially with the racial comments which I think show ignorance. But I think we are going way overboard with what is considered “verbal abuse” versus joking around that isn’t coming from a place of malice although could tug at certain insecurities a person has and to them be hurtful. (Which is why it is so important to know your gymnast and keep the lines of communication always open.) Listening to these comments without watching the documentary seem pretty bad but watching the tone and how he’s interacting with the gymnasts gives a different impression. (Not saying they were all okay - not at all - but it seems that everything everyone has ever done and said in the gymnastics world is being picked apart without considering context and the ability to change and learn - if I were a coach I’d be afraid to breath the wrong way).
Watch dance moms and see how all the girls being constantly compared unfavorably to Maddie destroyed their confidence
@@Ajay.Plants A. I would say the manner in which that "school" treated those girls in every way, including that awful pyramid, was why they suffered damage to their self esteem and PTSD.
B. If I had a gymnast that was having issues getting a certain skill, or I believed the skill, if they already had it, could be improved; I don't see anything wrong with pointing out another gymnast who is demonstrating the proper way to do said skill.
I don't think it's out of line to say, "I know you can get this. We're almost there. Look, check out Lindsay as she does it. See how she has her arms locked out and up at her ears? That's what I was saying before. See how it helps her block through, instead of over? You can do that and when you do and get comfortable with it, it's going to make upgrade progression a lot easier."
That is page out of the Karolyi book . Bella used to pin them against each other for motivation. It's the way he did and the way he framed it that is unhealthy. There is a much better way to go about that
Again, you've done a wonderful job here!
Just found your channel ! I'm hooked . I saw the Flo doc. I thought same thing . Kids that age ( especially sheltered gymnasts ) may not understand the sarcasm and take it quite literally. That's Chris passive aggressive way of insulting the girls.
As a former coach I would check what I said to the girls. Sometimes these kids become family and they get the jokes but not everyone “gets it”. I had to watch my sarcasm.
been waiting for this one
Such an interesting case. The real canary in the coal mine is all of the injuries.
Kim Learned That Training Trait From Karolyi!
The Karolyis have always been very questionable
I am a huge fan of Kim Zmeskal. I always have been. And anyone still can be. And we can all still feel the same way about gymnastics that she has done in her career. That won't ever be changed. But it does not protect her from scrutiny regarding her coaching methods or her husband's coaching methods. She was brought up in a toxic gym environment. And then she proceeded to have to coach within that same system. They were all sucked into a program of dominate or die. And it produced one of the greatest tragedies of all times... And I have seen that behind the routine episode. And I will tell you that those comments that her husband make are very cringy and uncomfortable. He calls them Shamu or something like that. Equating them to a whale. He's not explicitly calling them fat. But that's a bad association to make. And also the passive aggressive comments that he makes to get his gymnast irritated to motivate them. That's also not acceptable. Coming from a grown man to girls under his supervision. That's there on the tapes. And that's even the edited version. God knows what was said without cameras there. I've never seen bad behavior out of Kim on any footage of her as a coach. Which does show quite a strong amount of self-control that hopefully carries out at all times. Because Bela and the rest of the coaches of her era certainly didn't behave themselves. So I'll give her that. But we can't give this woman a pass because we love her or we loved her or we loved her gymnastics. Those are two different things.
Yeah those Shamu comments are terrible. And he can't possibly actually think or is consciously thinking that he is calling them fat. Because these are tiny little girls. Junior some of them are all of them. But that doesn't mean that he doesn't realize that he is equating them to whales. And the mind of a impressionable girl in this world who is going through her teenage years is going to take that statement the wrong way and it could damage her for a very long time if not permanently. So that is a man not understanding his privilege and his position of power and his indifference to the feelings of these young women. I'm not even going to call them women they're girls. So regardless if that was malicious or not. Some people need to learn the proper way to speak to young children especially girls. And those comments are unacceptable.
Ragan Smith is not an Olympian. The IOC and USOC do not recognize them as such. She never competed and was never named to the actual team.
Bailey Key and Regan Thompson ..who knows what goals they could have reached of they were trained in a positive and safe trainig environment . It makes me so very sad .
Kim is a Legend!!! Inspired a nation when she became 1st World All Around World Champion. The Karolys and Zmeskal shaped future gymnasts dreams and even everyday people like me to work harder for their future. The USA is gonna go down with this mentality of all soft talk wins… let Russia or China win then… or Brazil or Japan. To think the international judges are going to subjectively judge mediocre athletes to win. You’re fooling yourself. Russia and Brazil just won the last 2 World AAs… keep up your videos beating up the USA coaches and we’ll end up like Romania with no Team members good enough to qualify at Worlds or the Olympics.
Lordy this girl sound like she’s telling a spooky Frankenstein story🤣🤣🤣. I think you’re right, since Kim’s gym has the same issues as ALL OF THE OTHER Elite programs in the WORLD, we should just end the sport. 😂 This expert is saying so! She also doesn’t realize that in each Country there is the elusive Bela Karolyi character who jump started their sport and catapultes their Country into Olympic stardom thanks to their drive, determination and confidence to get the job done. This girl doesn’t know this. 😂Every Country has a beginning and an end as far as gymnastics is concerned I guess, maybe let’s follow her cue, let’s let the USA stop now before we fail this young lady and another gymnast could fall short of her goals in gymnastics, AKA we all must be Olympians or else. 😂 At all costs blame it on the coach yet again. 😂 Definitely never take any blame when you are a teen cause you’re a TEEN. 😂 Just think if Bela and Martha weren’t around when Simone showed up on the scene do you realize there would be no Coach educated enough to even take her to the Olympics, let alone with the skill set she brought. Ask her X coach Amy, they got plenty of help from coaches trained Karolyi style and even then she wasn’t disciplined enough to take on the ranch. Lucky for Simone she was the GOAT in this case. Before Bela and Martha, the USA gymnastic was so low it couldn’t even take a team. We just had individuals and they weren’t very good. I think Kathy Rigby was our first somewhat competitive gymnast. It took Bela to get us recognized as a legitimate competitive team at the Olympics. Man! You young video stars need background checks cause you know nothing about the History of USA gymnastics. You also know nothing about marketing. If it wasn’t for The Karolyi’s we’d still be miserable, TV networks would not even carry us, our athletes would do no endorsements, books, tours, commercials ads and our College team wouldn’t be loaded with Elites either, again no TV coverage, so yeah, go get an education before spouting off nonsense. News flash, the Russian coaches we have now, they came because of where Bela took us. He put us on the map. Without him the Russians would have go the Europe or Canada, but no they came here. Bela made gymnastics here a GOLD RUSH for aspiring young Worldly coaches. Yeah, love him or hate him, HE DID THAT!!! And you are bashing our sport, breaking it down and it has come sooooooo far without you! Wonder what your story is😂I bet we can all bash you if you’ll just be honest😂 I bet you’ve made some hum dinger mistakes.
You’re probably right on when it comes to Bela and Marta. Marta, not Martha.
Oh no.... they were forced to put their hair in a bun & told to " do it like Emma does it" when Emma's technique was flawless...... wow, how abusive. This is one of the most absurd videos I've watched in a very long time.
Kinda felt the same way
It's obvious none of you have ever competed in a sport.
The Karolyis are not bad. Its all selfish gymnasts or those that had mental issues. None of the gymnasts that trained with them in the start of it all have no complaints its the entitled younger ones. To be the best you must get tough training to get you past yourself. Those who make it can handle it, those who never will complain.