It's not the same level of comparison. Calling someone 'illegal' is dehumanizing that person. It's a talking point that gives people permission to be their worst rather than encouragement to be their best. If you want to use that term then you should consider yourself illegal becoz the only original inhabitants of USA are the red indians.
@@JChang0114 It wasn't a conquest. It was an invasion. Besides. The Point is all US citizens are immigrants at some point in time. Calling someone 'illegal' is blatantly racist especially when they are being taken heavily advantage of more often. Immigrants work 10 times harder than an average US Citizen. The kind of jobs that almost all of them do and qualify for are low paying such as cotton picking, manual farm labor, garbage selection, sewage work, prostitution etc. They don't have a voice to speak for them. So Parroting talking points handed over to you by sensationalized media claiming they are having a 'great time' with your 'Tax Payer' money is insulting and a tormenting. The same talking points were given to black people during slavery and segregation era. Claiming that they are taking 'jobs' meant for black people implies that such jobs are meant for a particular category of people which also is blatantly racist. Those argument always resonates with white people but it does not at all resonate with black people or others. For example, Trump after making such claims held a Blacks For Trump campaign on Saturday 29th at predominantly Black 180 Church in Detroit. Look it up. The crowd is less predominantly Black
Whenever I hear say they're offended by something I just hear "I'm not emotionally mature enough to deal with my feelings and I want you to change your ways so I never need to be."
Wrong Perception. You're the one being childish. Calling someone 'illegal' is dehumanizing that person to make it easier to kick them down. It's a talking point that gives people permission to be their worst rather than encouragement to be their best. It's the same rhetoric used against blacks during slavery to make slavery okay. Undocumented immigrants work ten times harder than citizens. That's becoz the only jobs they can find are always low pay jobs like cotton picking, garbage sorting, toilet cleaning, manual farm labor etc. They are the most exploited becoz they don't have any say or legal representation to air their grievances. It's insulting to tell Latinos and blacks that immigrants are taking away their jobs. Are those jobs meant for certain people? So Stop it. This isn't about feelings
9:54 Amber, thank you for mentioning this. We are a sovereign country governed by the rule of law. This is the most important reason why we should secure our borders.
@@ehanneken what does sovereignty mean if you treat foreign trespassers the same as you do citizens? does it not lose its meaning at that point? does that not make all people sovereign which really makes nobody sovereign? is it really the rule of law when we treat lawbreakers the same as law abiders, or in some cases grant lawbreakers special privileges?
@@aaronkcmo Aren’t you begging the question, which is how restrictive should the law be? It doesn’t have to be as restrictive as it is today. For about a hundred years the United States had more or less open borders, and for a while after that the restrictions applied mainly to Chinese immigrants. Was the U.S. not a sovereign country until the twentieth century? Was it not ruled by laws?
Robby, A) we don't know the crime rate of illegal immigrants. B) it's irrelevant, every crime committed by someone here illegally is a crime that should not have happened.
I wanted to become a resident of Germany and I had to take a year long language course, and that curriculum walked us through what is important in the German culture, what's not acceptable in the German culture. And then there was a whole political test and history test that we had to pass in order to gain residency. Let's be clear this is not even citizenship you can't vote there with only a residency card. And still you had immigrants pushing German citizens downstairs, in front of trains.
If he did that, then the pundits at MSNBC would just shift the focus of the conversation to him, and his original point would be lost. Sometimes you gotta pick your battles.
Little did George Orwell know that, one day, Democrats would be slimier, more repulsive versions of his fictional political monsters. This is where it is actually interesting to put Ayn Rand and George Orwell next to each other. Rand takes one look at Orwell and basically says, "I see your horror story, and raise you a hellscape!" Democrats say they don't like Rand's books, but what they don't say is that they actually love them, because they get to pull ideas from the villains and "flip the script" to make those villains the good guys.
You just stated everything that Ds think is wrong with Rs. The spectrum is created to keep you polarized. if you don't make a move to create bipartisan policies why would the other side. Little do you understand that this rant is exactly what is wrong with politics in the first place; the keep you angry with ridiculous things so the policies they make can keep you down. Now please tell me why that is not the same with Rs? It seems that progressives are the only ones that want to move away from Orwell (purely based on the policies they would create). In other words, when you rant about "flipping the script", yield examples.
You can have a welfare state or an open border. Pick one. We have both and it's not good. It would be much easier to deal with the border than to unwind the welfare state.
If you unwind the welfare state (and drug war/other abysmal foreign policies) the border takes care of itself. It's obvious why they're leaving Nicaragua, it's obvious why they're coming here.
I wish more debates were handled with respect through disagreements. this video is less than 15 minutes and we heard good points which proves that a presidential debate could have more substance in an hour
I like both Robby and Amber, but Robby is way off here. Illegal means illegal and yes we definitely could secure our border & ports if we actually had the political will. As Biden always says "This is the United States of America. There's nothing we can't do if we do it together!" Right???
You don't need to be a citizen to start a business. You just slap a sticker on your truck and go. If you wanted to start a C corporation and get investors you can do that without being a citizen too. But most small business owners are just a sole prop or an LLC.
@@ja8898 Well, yes, but the tax authorities will have to know who you are to take your taxes. These guys can't do it with their own identity. The authorities might be interested to know what Mr. Sánchez has been doing in Arizona for the last 5 years.
That opening perfectly depicts the new Democratic Party. They are ALL about salutations, labels, semantics etc -- and content and substance are way down the priority list.
The argument that "citizens commit crimes, so we shouldn't worry about letting in criminals" is just ridiculous on its face, when you say it in plain language. Robby can dance around equivocating all he likes but it's still an exceedingly weak argument.
Amber is 100% right here. And no, Robby, we won't deport them all at once. We will start with the criminals (which you explicitly agreed with), and then those living on govt. support (which you implicitly agreed with), and then the single men, and then the rest.
Auron MacIntyre lays out a simple deportation plan that relies more on self deportation. I'm glad these ideas are being talked about, now they just need to be put into action. ruclips.net/video/Kl5ltjo-3BQ/видео.html
I do want to work, *Robby* , it's just that if you open me up to competition from the rest of the goddamned globe, I'll be priced out of the labour market in less than a second; and I live in Sweden!
Where is the evidence that Americans ain't prioritized. It's the same racist rhetoric used against blacks during slavery now being used against undocumented immigrants. Calling someone 'illegal' is to dehumanize that person to make it easier to kick them down. It's a talking point that gives people permission to be their worst rather than encouragement to be their best. Undocumented immigrants work ten times harder than US citizens. The only jobs they can find are always low pay like manual farm labor, cotton picking, garbage sorting, toilet cleaning etc. It's insulting how the establishment claims they are taking away jobs meant for 'blacks and Latinos '
I don’t see the need for correction. Great job Amber! I hope Robby takes this as a hard learning point and education rather than downplay this as an opinion. SHUT DOWN THE BORDER. The system was never broken and had programs. That’s how my family was able to come here.
he's the type of libertarian that knows the positions of libertarianism but not why those positions are what they are. very shallow understanding of things
Perhaps an unfair knee jerk reaction, but I can't watch any videos he's in now. I feel he is an example of why our party is failing... I disagree with almost everything he says. He has every right to say and believe them. But I don't have to give it my time. Lol
I have to say, having gone through the labyrinth of nationalizing a family member, which cost me thousands of dollars, proof of income, proof of net worth, etc. to ensure that the person being brought across the border, my spouse, didn't wind up on the dole. I don't see why anyone else wouldn't face similar obstacles If you've got needed skills or a job waiting, great! Come on in. The issue is when the question turns to "I don't want to be there, so I came here". I'm sorry, you're not bringing anything to the party, you didn't follow the process, you've demonstrated that you don't respect our laws, etc. sorry, you lose, go home, you've got a free flight back to wherever that is. I'm fine giving people a break because I'm not heartless. If there's a job for them where they want to be, they should have 30 days to find a job and an employer who's willing to stand up for them but it's going to be very strict as on day 31 they need to be on a transport out of country because they aren't needed here.
@@christophercox8966 There's no changing minds with a person who thinks all illegal immigrants are "trespassers." If you hold that opinion, you are hopeless
Amber acknowledged that work visas are in the hundreds of thousands while illegal immigration is in the millions, but failed to notice that meant millions of people who want to immigrate cannot get legal permission.
We can't accept everyone who wants to come here. Just because you want to come doesn't mean we have to let you come. We need to tell a lot of foreigners "No."
Big L for Amber in this one. Robbie literally says he wants a system to better vet individuals coming into the country allowing them to legally work and live while also saying he doesn't support welfare for illegal entry... And her response is "that's not a fair comparison because the people you are talking about are able to be vetted for their abilities to contribute..." Are you daft my lady or just hard of hearing???
Well, Robbie pretty much said that migrants should come in, so corporations can freely take advantage of cheap laborers (because desperation equals consent for dirt pay and bad working conditions) and it doesn't matter as long as the products and service will be cheaper for him. He also mentioned millions of working class Americans should just "deal with it" by somehow grinding a successful business, or lowering their living wage to compete with the dirt cheap migrants. I would respect it more if it came from a laborer or a business owner that present himself as an example. But hearing it from a cushy media employee that will not be affected, and whose argument is just "I don't care. I want to buy more things." is not convincing at all.
@@opywop18 I guess it is only a problem if your goal is to be a sovereign country. If u do not recognize the long term ramifications of no borders, there is no point in anyone explaining it to u
@@julzee111 Borders are just to divide us. We are all human. A wall will be used against American citizens eventually. The elites will lock us in and enslave us if we build a wall.
People that come ILLEGALLY agave already broken the law. Ya want lower income people to work? Get them off the government baby bottle and they will grow up and work. If you are disabled then they should find a job you can achieve… stuff envelopes! More people want to work than the government, gives them credit for. Gives people dignity. IMO
The proportion of crime is irrelevant. Any crime committed by an illegal immigrant is a crime that wouldn't have been committed if that illegal immigrant wasn't here.
Many of the first "immigrants" to the New World were sent here due to the commission of crimes, and being 'sold' into indentured servitude. So.... -bZj
The problem is that a lot of people being called illegal immigrants also did not break any laws to enter the country. If you drive from Mexico directly to US border patrol and claim asylum, and then get released within the US legally while waiting your court date (many times while waiting an ankle bracelet), you are within the US legally. Yet you may still get called an illegal immigrant, even if you have not broken any laws.
@@themachine9366 So, then that would be an incorrect term in that case. What's your point? You're more concerned about the very few applying for asylum at the port of entry being mislabeled by random people? Aka, a legal alien, a foreign national, non-citizen resident, etc.
@@themachine9366A distinction without a difference for sure. Which shows you how corrupt the global left is. “We’ll involve government policy to facilitate the destruction of the West.” I live in Cali and built a house. THe town charged me $50K+ for fees. Back east, you bribe the inspectors $200 per visit. Which system is more corrupt.
I agree with the lady - "SHUT DOWN THE BORDER ASAP". And forget that our country cannot survive without these people. Employers need to do "Incentives" to our American people. Also, there are tons of people that will work but offer more education, etc. We ALREADY HAVE TOO MANY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS- MILLIONS. "HELLO"?! I hate to hear this young man act NEGATIVE as if a problem cannot be SOLVED. Again, "hello" open up your mind and there are SOLUTIONS & ANSWERS TO EVERY PROBLEM.
This has been happening for decades. People don't like how something sounds so they try to soften the words used. A janitor is now called a custodial artist, or a coffee shop counter person is now called a barista.... Stupidly people fall for this crap. The idiots think they are helping the situations they are trying to describe differently by simply changing their words. We are doomed as a species if we keep allowing idiots to run the world.
Exactly. The border is already "closed" to illegal immigrants, just like my house is closed to ants. It would be impossible to 100% actually secure the border
The Visa program is very difficult to use. My friend has been trying to get former workers she had working for her business in Haiti and they were denied. She's unable to keep regular citizens on the job because it's a very physical job and they keep quitting.
We certainly don't want to run an economy like japan, 😂we're crime is exceptionally low, food is delicious and very inexpensive, housing is plentiful, well-built and cheap. The society is cohesive.
And their population is dropping in the millions, their economy has barely grown in 40 years, their youth is overworked to the bone because they don’t have young people to support the elderly. Japan is a dying country because of lack of immigration. Unless something drastically changes, they will be a Chinese colony in a century. Their population cannot sustain their military. The US is the only developed nation which has a replacement fertility rate, mostly due to immigration. With the proper screening, you can get the most talented people from the entire world into the largest market. If this market continues to grow even at current rates, the US disparity between China and Europe will grow, just because of demographics. Immigration could be one of the factors to keep America with absolute world hegemony for many centuries (with even more absolute dominance to today). But it is hard to look into the future. Immigration brings a lot of problems but it is a key factor to survive population collapse. Fertility rates alone will wipe 30% of the Japanese population within one century and the few young who remain will have to tend elderly who outnumbers them. Good luck defending a country in such conditions!
Remember, it is not that Americans don't want to work, they don't want to work for the wages and conditions that are being given. And importing a new workforce will never give Americans the bargaining power to change anything.
This debate would have been a lot more productive if each of them had notes with statistics and sources in front of them to reference so they (especially Robby) didn't always seem unsure of what they were saying. It's a complex issue, no need to memorize everything.
MSNBC is right. Calling someone 'illegal' is dehumanizing that person. It's a talking point that gives people permission to be their worst rather than encouragement to be their best.
If we had a system that would let people into the country and not have to wait 10 years the massive amounts of people wouldn't be trying to get here illegally.
Amber failed to distinguish between labor substitutes and labor complements. When, for example, a doctor hires a nanny to take care of her children part of the time, that frees her to earn more wages.
Amber is wrong here on visas: It depends on which government's passport applicants hold. I know MANY promising, talented Indians (doctors, I.T.-specialists, etc.) who had to wait YEARS for their visa!
She makes it sound as if entering the US legally as an immigrant is pretty easy. In reality, it's almost impossible. And the lucky ones who can be accepted usually have to endure waiting periods of 10+ years before getting in. The only real borders are PRIVATE borders - the borders on your own properties. People should have every right to accept, AND reject, anybody they want, within their own properties. It's basic freedom of association. However, it seems more than half of all libertarians throw freedom of association out the window when it comes to immigration, and want to forcibly prevent others from having people from other countries within the properties of said others.
seasonal work visas take a few weeks to get. and we do hundreds of thousands of them a year. and even if, none of that excuses breaking out laws and entering illegally. you can not have lax immigration laws with a welfare state. smart libertarians understand that. until the welfare state is abolished, we have to have strict border control.
Don't worry, real libertarians do still exist. John Locke taught us that Property=resources+labor. Therefore, no one owns the border. And if I want to sell an American house to a Mexican citizen? None of your business
the only thing correct in your comment was that the only real borders are private borders. you either missed the point, or recite false data otherwise. freedom of association implies freedom of disassociation, and between the tyranny of closed borders, and open borders, closed borders are easier to deal with, at least until we can deal with the welfare system before that.
Trust, is the key part. Mass immigration in the EU has come with (predominantly) young males who arrive illegally without documentation or any proof of identity, with embassies unable to confirm either. If you cant be trusted from that first meeting then oppsy; you've lost the privilege of opportunity.
Robby is right that it may be impossible to secure the border, and the labor is good for the GDP, but the part about Amber’s argument that resonates with me is that we shouldn’t be rewarding people for breaking the rules. It’s not fair to the immigrants that followed the rules and went through all the “years” of work. It’s not fair to the businesses that follow labor laws when other businesses profit by skirting those laws, etc. We should make it easier for people to come here and work and even immigrate. But we shouldn’t reward people for breaking the rules.
The problem that we have in western civilization to date is that there is going to have to be a compromise on this at some point down the road given how fertility and birth rates are on the decline at alarming rates in the west. In short because of this, there won't be enough people to provide goods and services to a population that is going to age for the next two generations (gen-x, and millennials) and for the boomers who still be around to rely on the services of Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare. If the neo-populist luddites are not going to go the way of AI because they fear that it's going to take away our jobs, while also making no compromise on the immigration issue and completely closing the border, then how do they suppose we meet the demands of the goods and services that are going to come with taking care of an aging population in the not too distant future? By printing more fiat money to cause more inflation? Raising taxes to put an even bigger squeeze on the average Americans take home pay? TL;DR - People who want to prevent AI or close the border have not thought it through about what's going to happen with an aging population that's going to need to be taken care of due to a population that won't be able to replace itself due to low birth rates.
This man makes very valid points this woman is just being ignorant and wants a quick and easy solution rather than taking the time to analyze and build a solid solution that benefits all
Robbie kinda deflected. Illegal immigrants working for less than minimum wage is an issue. I would prefer if there was no minimum wage, but at the very least they should crack down on ppl working for less than what a citizen is allowed to work for. Keeping citizens out of the labor market because they are not legally allowed to compete is a bad thing.
Prior to covid we had 11 million people here illegally, 8 million working, and we were considered at full employment. So obviously we are not allowing sufficient immigration and we have a significant sector, agriculture, that's based on people who are easily exploited. So if you support the status quo, you are complicit in that exploitation. And if you are advocating that only people with work authorization should be employed, understand that food costs will go up.
Will MSNBC ever use the term, undocumented gun owner?
They do: unregistered. SO what are you saying? What... do... you... mean... ????
@@MrMichiel1983bruh
It's not the same level of comparison. Calling someone 'illegal' is dehumanizing that person. It's a talking point that gives people permission to be their worst rather than encouragement to be their best. If you want to use that term then you should consider yourself illegal becoz the only original inhabitants of USA are the red indians.
@@thealienwatcher540 The Natives lost their land in conquest. Are we going to go back to land boundaries of yesteryear?
@@JChang0114 It wasn't a conquest. It was an invasion. Besides. The Point is all US citizens are immigrants at some point in time. Calling someone 'illegal' is blatantly racist especially when they are being taken heavily advantage of more often. Immigrants work 10 times harder than an average US Citizen. The kind of jobs that almost all of them do and qualify for are low paying such as cotton picking, manual farm labor, garbage selection, sewage work, prostitution etc. They don't have a voice to speak for them. So Parroting talking points handed over to you by sensationalized media claiming they are having a 'great time' with your 'Tax Payer' money is insulting and a tormenting. The same talking points were given to black people during slavery and segregation era. Claiming that they are taking 'jobs' meant for black people implies that such jobs are meant for a particular category of people which also is blatantly racist. Those argument always resonates with white people but it does not at all resonate with black people or others. For example, Trump after making such claims held a Blacks For Trump campaign on Saturday 29th at predominantly Black 180 Church in Detroit. Look it up. The crowd is less predominantly Black
Whenever I hear say they're offended by something I just hear "I'm not emotionally mature enough to deal with my feelings and I want you to change your ways so I never need to be."
Wrong Perception. You're the one being childish. Calling someone 'illegal' is dehumanizing that person to make it easier to kick them down. It's a talking point that gives people permission to be their worst rather than encouragement to be their best. It's the same rhetoric used against blacks during slavery to make slavery okay. Undocumented immigrants work ten times harder than citizens. That's becoz the only jobs they can find are always low pay jobs like cotton picking, garbage sorting, toilet cleaning, manual farm labor etc. They are the most exploited becoz they don't have any say or legal representation to air their grievances. It's insulting to tell Latinos and blacks that immigrants are taking away their jobs. Are those jobs meant for certain people? So Stop it. This isn't about feelings
These are the same people who think Burglars breaking into homes are "Unauthorized house guest".
*Bulgarians
Until it's their houses, of course!
And a bank robbery is an undocumented withdrawal.
Most of them can't tell you what a woman is as well
Wrong perception
9:54 Amber, thank you for mentioning this. We are a sovereign country governed by the rule of law. This is the most important reason why we should secure our borders.
Why can’t a country be sovereign or be ruled by laws without tightly controlling immigration?
@@ehanneken what does sovereignty mean if you treat foreign trespassers the same as you do citizens? does it not lose its meaning at that point? does that not make all people sovereign which really makes nobody sovereign? is it really the rule of law when we treat lawbreakers the same as law abiders, or in some cases grant lawbreakers special privileges?
@@aaronkcmo Aren’t you begging the question, which is how restrictive should the law be? It doesn’t have to be as restrictive as it is today. For about a hundred years the United States had more or less open borders, and for a while after that the restrictions applied mainly to Chinese immigrants. Was the U.S. not a sovereign country until the twentieth century? Was it not ruled by laws?
Robby, A) we don't know the crime rate of illegal immigrants. B) it's irrelevant, every crime committed by someone here illegally is a crime that should not have happened.
In legal immigration, there is a chance of murderers as well. Are you saying we should take zero immigrants because they slightly increase the risk?
@@jacobawojtowicz How often do we hear about crime committed by legal immigrants? 🤨 Rare
@Candice Anecdotal argument, not data. You "hear about" whatever the media wants to talk about, not a great representation of reality.
Facts!
Anyone else think Robby has an extremely punchable face?
What would they call rapists? Unwanted sexual partner?
I wanted to become a resident of Germany and I had to take a year long language course, and that curriculum walked us through what is important in the German culture, what's not acceptable in the German culture.
And then there was a whole political test and history test that we had to pass in order to gain residency. Let's be clear this is not even citizenship you can't vote there with only a residency card.
And still you had immigrants pushing German citizens downstairs, in front of trains.
He should have pushed back and said “no I’m going to use the terminology I want”
If he did that, then the pundits at MSNBC would just shift the focus of the conversation to him, and his original point would be lost. Sometimes you gotta pick your battles.
Well he was actually using legal government terms but leftist loons don't like it.
@@FKLinguista No. He gave ground before the contest even started. He surrendered the initiative. He lost before they'd begun.
“The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect.” ~ George Orwell, '1984'
Little did George Orwell know that, one day, Democrats would be slimier, more repulsive versions of his fictional political monsters. This is where it is actually interesting to put Ayn Rand and George Orwell next to each other. Rand takes one look at Orwell and basically says, "I see your horror story, and raise you a hellscape!" Democrats say they don't like Rand's books, but what they don't say is that they actually love them, because they get to pull ideas from the villains and "flip the script" to make those villains the good guys.
Mission accomplished.
You just stated everything that Ds think is wrong with Rs. The spectrum is created to keep you polarized. if you don't make a move to create bipartisan policies why would the other side. Little do you understand that this rant is exactly what is wrong with politics in the first place; the keep you angry with ridiculous things so the policies they make can keep you down. Now please tell me why that is not the same with Rs? It seems that progressives are the only ones that want to move away from Orwell (purely based on the policies they would create).
In other words, when you rant about "flipping the script", yield examples.
Reptilian Hybrid 🦎
Amber gets the W on this one.
I’ve yet to see her get an L.
...and it's not even close. I never realized how dumb Robbie is. WOW.
You can have a welfare state or an open border. Pick one. We have both and it's not good. It would be much easier to deal with the border than to unwind the welfare state.
You can have democracy (direct or representative,) or you can have an open border. Pick one, you cannot have both.
If you unwind the welfare state (and drug war/other abysmal foreign policies) the border takes care of itself. It's obvious why they're leaving Nicaragua, it's obvious why they're coming here.
@@jacobawojtowicz They are coming here for welfare. Very obvious
Just restrict welfare benefits to U.S. citizens. Done, easy.
@@buck7268 Birthright citizenship ruins that idea.
I wish more debates were handled with respect through disagreements. this video is less than 15 minutes and we heard good points which proves that a presidential debate could have more substance in an hour
It's not "remotely feasible" to close/shut-down/secure our borders, Robby? Why not? Amber is on the right side of this issue.
I like both Robby and Amber, but Robby is way off here. Illegal means illegal and yes we definitely could secure our border & ports if we actually had the political will. As Biden always says "This is the United States of America. There's nothing we can't do if we do it together!" Right???
How the hell would they start a business if they are in the country illegally? How would they pay taxes, guy in the smart glasses?
They have fake ss# and they are propping up social security through their taxes
You don't need to be a citizen to start a business. You just slap a sticker on your truck and go. If you wanted to start a C corporation and get investors you can do that without being a citizen too. But most small business owners are just a sole prop or an LLC.
Taxation is theft.
I've read estimates that roughly 50% are using fake SSNs.
@@ja8898 Well, yes, but the tax authorities will have to know who you are to take your taxes. These guys can't do it with their own identity. The authorities might be interested to know what Mr. Sánchez has been doing in Arizona for the last 5 years.
That opening perfectly depicts the new Democratic Party. They are ALL about salutations, labels, semantics etc -- and content and substance are way down the priority list.
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS is the proper nomenclature. You're Welcome.😺
Illegal Alien -- because you're only an immigrant if you're staying.
Illegal alien is used in the USC and also in the tax code.
It's illegal alien. Illegal immigrant was just the previous attempt to soften language pertaining to criminals.
@@lookoutforchris That is the CORRECT term.
@@HarryF-tz5fo I'm dead.
The argument that "citizens commit crimes, so we shouldn't worry about letting in criminals" is just ridiculous on its face, when you say it in plain language. Robby can dance around equivocating all he likes but it's still an exceedingly weak argument.
Amber is 100% right here. And no, Robby, we won't deport them all at once. We will start with the criminals (which you explicitly agreed with), and then those living on govt. support (which you implicitly agreed with), and then the single men, and then the rest.
Auron MacIntyre lays out a simple deportation plan that relies more on self deportation. I'm glad these ideas are being talked about, now they just need to be put into action.
ruclips.net/video/Kl5ltjo-3BQ/видео.html
They can’t stand the immigration status quo or its terms and definitions, yet do nothing at the legislative level… things are hard!
I do want to work, *Robby* , it's just that if you open me up to competition from the rest of the goddamned globe, I'll be priced out of the labour market in less than a second; and I live in Sweden!
Prioritizing American citizens is not and should not be controversial.
Where is the evidence that Americans ain't prioritized. It's the same racist rhetoric used against blacks during slavery now being used against undocumented immigrants. Calling someone 'illegal' is to dehumanize that person to make it easier to kick them down. It's a talking point that gives people permission to be their worst rather than encouragement to be their best. Undocumented immigrants work ten times harder than US citizens. The only jobs they can find are always low pay like manual farm labor, cotton picking, garbage sorting, toilet cleaning etc. It's insulting how the establishment claims they are taking away jobs meant for 'blacks and Latinos '
I don’t see the need for correction. Great job Amber! I hope Robby takes this as a hard learning point and education rather than downplay this as an opinion. SHUT DOWN THE BORDER. The system was never broken and had programs. That’s how my family was able to come here.
I like her.
Him? Meh
Same
@@MiscMitz His name is cool tho, so props to the parents! :D
I like Robbie, but strongly disagree with him on this issue.
he's the type of libertarian that knows the positions of libertarianism but not why those positions are what they are. very shallow understanding of things
Perhaps an unfair knee jerk reaction, but I can't watch any videos he's in now. I feel he is an example of why our party is failing... I disagree with almost everything he says. He has every right to say and believe them. But I don't have to give it my time. Lol
I have to say, having gone through the labyrinth of nationalizing a family member, which cost me thousands of dollars, proof of income, proof of net worth, etc. to ensure that the person being brought across the border, my spouse, didn't wind up on the dole. I don't see why anyone else wouldn't face similar obstacles If you've got needed skills or a job waiting, great! Come on in. The issue is when the question turns to "I don't want to be there, so I came here". I'm sorry, you're not bringing anything to the party, you didn't follow the process, you've demonstrated that you don't respect our laws, etc. sorry, you lose, go home, you've got a free flight back to wherever that is.
I'm fine giving people a break because I'm not heartless. If there's a job for them where they want to be, they should have 30 days to find a job and an employer who's willing to stand up for them but it's going to be very strict as on day 31 they need to be on a transport out of country because they aren't needed here.
I'm so glad to have found you two again! It's great to hear your discussions again.
Amber thinks with logic, not her emotions. She's smarter than this guy.
Maybe the real goal is to overload the social safety net beyond its breaking point and then beg for money through far higher taxes.
Illegal alien is already a euphemism. The correct term is foreign trespasser.
"dey took my jaaab"
@@joevartanian4246speaking of jobs, nice one with that good faith critique. You changed some minds today.
I like to use "criminal immigrant" when someone tells me that it's impolite to say "illegal immigrant" or "illegal alien"
@@frankie137137 I could get on board with that.
@@christophercox8966 There's no changing minds with a person who thinks all illegal immigrants are "trespassers." If you hold that opinion, you are hopeless
Amber acknowledged that work visas are in the hundreds of thousands while illegal immigration is in the millions, but failed to notice that meant millions of people who want to immigrate cannot get legal permission.
that's too bad. we have a limit. now they came here illegally and can get deported and permanently banned from ever entering again
And that overstaying a work visa is an extremely popular way to be here illegally
We can't accept everyone who wants to come here. Just because you want to come doesn't mean we have to let you come.
We need to tell a lot of foreigners "No."
Which is fine. Not everyone can immigrate.
Big L for Amber in this one. Robbie literally says he wants a system to better vet individuals coming into the country allowing them to legally work and live while also saying he doesn't support welfare for illegal entry... And her response is "that's not a fair comparison because the people you are talking about are able to be vetted for their abilities to contribute..." Are you daft my lady or just hard of hearing???
Well, Robbie pretty much said that migrants should come in, so corporations can freely take advantage of cheap laborers (because desperation equals consent for dirt pay and bad working conditions) and it doesn't matter as long as the products and service will be cheaper for him.
He also mentioned millions of working class Americans should just "deal with it" by somehow grinding a successful business, or lowering their living wage to compete with the dirt cheap migrants.
I would respect it more if it came from a laborer or a business owner that present himself as an example. But hearing it from a cushy media employee that will not be affected, and whose argument is just "I don't care. I want to buy more things." is not convincing at all.
Liberty is the most important thing. Laws do not define liberty; they exist to protect it. Laws that restrict liberty on a massive scale are wrong.
There have been way more military age men coming. What are they helping???????
Amber won. Sorry Robby.
Yup, I agree.
I think so, but if Alex Nowrasteh had been sitting across from her instead of Robby she would have lost.
My family has been here since 1633. Im native american. Mass deportations are whats going to happen.
Making yourself feel good when the rest of us want substantive effort is disgusting.
Rico, you act as if this problem has never been solved when Trump had it under control beyond anything we've seen in our lifetimes
There is no problem
@@opywop18 I guess it is only a problem if your goal is to be a sovereign country. If u do not recognize the long term ramifications of no borders, there is no point in anyone explaining it to u
@@julzee111 America is a nation of immigrants
@@opywop18 Huge problem.
@@julzee111 Borders are just to divide us. We are all human.
A wall will be used against American citizens eventually. The elites will lock us in and enslave us if we build a wall.
Amber Duke !
When someone is agreeing with you it's rude to quibble over the details.
The unspoken issue proper vetting of Immigrants. Don’t allow any with out background check.
Amber Duke 2024
Robbie get sponsored by the establishment?
That was a great debate. I think we should build a wall around the welfare state not around the United States
We need a wall on our Southern Border. Without one, we will continue to have 10's of Millions of Illegal Aliens violate our laws.
People that come ILLEGALLY agave already broken the law.
Ya want lower income people to work? Get them off the government baby bottle and they will grow up and work.
If you are disabled then they should find a job you can achieve… stuff envelopes! More people want to work than the government, gives them credit for. Gives people dignity. IMO
I am f8nding it more and more difficult to watch anything with him in it. Sorry. Skip
The proportion of crime is irrelevant. Any crime committed by an illegal immigrant is a crime that wouldn't have been committed if that illegal immigrant wasn't here.
Put up the damn wall to prove the situation wrong.
Word Salad
No Robby. My family didn't break any laws to get into this country. That's the difference.
Many of the first "immigrants" to the New World were sent here due to the commission of crimes, and being 'sold' into indentured servitude. So....
-bZj
The problem is that a lot of people being called illegal immigrants also did not break any laws to enter the country. If you drive from Mexico directly to US border patrol and claim asylum, and then get released within the US legally while waiting your court date (many times while waiting an ankle bracelet), you are within the US legally. Yet you may still get called an illegal immigrant, even if you have not broken any laws.
@@themachine9366 So, then that would be an incorrect term in that case. What's your point? You're more concerned about the very few applying for asylum at the port of entry being mislabeled by random people? Aka, a legal alien, a foreign national, non-citizen resident, etc.
@@themachine9366A distinction without a difference for sure. Which shows you how corrupt the global left is. “We’ll involve government policy to facilitate the destruction of the West.” I live in Cali and built a house. THe town charged me $50K+ for fees. Back east, you bribe the inspectors $200 per visit. Which system is more corrupt.
20 millions UNDOCUMENTED DREAMERS - FJB !!!
Take away all benefits to them and they'll go home.
How about “Dockless” for immigrants that don’t have documents?
I agree with the lady - "SHUT DOWN THE BORDER ASAP". And forget that our country cannot survive without these people. Employers need to do "Incentives" to our American people. Also, there are tons of people that will work but offer more education, etc. We ALREADY HAVE TOO MANY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS- MILLIONS. "HELLO"?! I hate to hear this young man act NEGATIVE as if a problem cannot be SOLVED. Again, "hello" open up your mind and there are SOLUTIONS & ANSWERS TO EVERY PROBLEM.
When people “came over on the Mayflower” they didn’t get paid housing, health care, education, and voucher cards.
The point is to obfuscate by "changing" (so undefining) the terms/language.
Great discussion, Amber tearing it up! Robbie is very disconnected .
It's uncomfortable to listen to factual inaccuracies
I disagree. Robbie seemed to have more empiricism backing his arguments and Amber's seemed more emotionally based.
This has been happening for decades. People don't like how something sounds so they try to soften the words used.
A janitor is now called a custodial artist, or a coffee shop counter person is now called a barista.... Stupidly people fall for this crap.
The idiots think they are helping the situations they are trying to describe differently by simply changing their words.
We are doomed as a species if we keep allowing idiots to run the world.
What does “closing the border” actually even mean in the context of illegal immigration?
Exactly. The border is already "closed" to illegal immigrants, just like my house is closed to ants. It would be impossible to 100% actually secure the border
Eisenhower had a good program that should be brought back. It was called operation wet back.
Robbie is the zestiest straight man I've ever seen 😂😂😂
What is Robbie doing to find a true solution???
Robby is an Open Borders, Line Go Up Libertarian. One of the worst kinds.
I don't know what's going on with Robbie but it needs to stop.
11:25 - all the landscaping and construction companies are Mexican owned and the hiring their relatives here in AZ.
Undocumented shopper. Undocumented houseguest. Undocumented tenant. Undocumented surgeon. Undocumented pilot.
Amber made a great argument bro. Maybe next time.
The Visa program is very difficult to use. My friend has been trying to get former workers she had working for her business in Haiti and they were denied. She's unable to keep regular citizens on the job because it's a very physical job and they keep quitting.
I thought ReasonTV was libertarian?
We certainly don't want to run an economy like japan, 😂we're crime is exceptionally low, food is delicious and very inexpensive, housing is plentiful, well-built and cheap. The society is cohesive.
And their population is dropping in the millions, their economy has barely grown in 40 years, their youth is overworked to the bone because they don’t have young people to support the elderly. Japan is a dying country because of lack of immigration. Unless something drastically changes, they will be a Chinese colony in a century. Their population cannot sustain their military. The US is the only developed nation which has a replacement fertility rate, mostly due to immigration. With the proper screening, you can get the most talented people from the entire world into the largest market. If this market continues to grow even at current rates, the US disparity between China and Europe will grow, just because of demographics. Immigration could be one of the factors to keep America with absolute world hegemony for many centuries (with even more absolute dominance to today). But it is hard to look into the future. Immigration brings a lot of problems but it is a key factor to survive population collapse. Fertility rates alone will wipe 30% of the Japanese population within one century and the few young who remain will have to tend elderly who outnumbers them. Good luck defending a country in such conditions!
Why don’t we just end the damn war on drugs, that will greatly reduce the number of people who come illegally
Remember, it is not that Americans don't want to work, they don't want to work for the wages and conditions that are being given. And importing a new workforce will never give Americans the bargaining power to change anything.
Mass immigration ruins two countries simultaneously.
This debate would have been a lot more productive if each of them had notes with statistics and sources in front of them to reference so they (especially Robby) didn't always seem unsure of what they were saying. It's a complex issue, no need to memorize everything.
Robby makes a LOT of assumptions here to justify his position.
Can you be specific? They reference a lot of available research.
MSNBC is right. Calling someone 'illegal' is dehumanizing that person. It's a talking point that gives people permission to be their worst rather than encouragement to be their best.
If we had a system that would let people into the country and not have to wait 10 years the massive amounts of people wouldn't be trying to get here illegally.
who started this stupid narrative? that is only for a specific type of visa. we have dozens of others that take weeks to get.
Amber failed to distinguish between labor substitutes and labor complements. When, for example, a doctor hires a nanny to take care of her children part of the time, that frees her to earn more wages.
hire someone here legally
@@AntonioRivera28 More people would love to do that, but the government has restricted the supply of legal nannies.
@@ehanneken no it hasnt. hire one that isnt from another country. problem solved
@@ehanneken Darn the government for regulating people who manage children
Love is love, except if you get accused of raype afterwards
Amber is wrong here on visas: It depends on which government's passport applicants hold. I know MANY promising, talented Indians (doctors, I.T.-specialists, etc.) who had to wait YEARS for their visa!
She makes it sound as if entering the US legally as an immigrant is pretty easy. In reality, it's almost impossible. And the lucky ones who can be accepted usually have to endure waiting periods of 10+ years before getting in.
The only real borders are PRIVATE borders - the borders on your own properties. People should have every right to accept, AND reject, anybody they want, within their own properties. It's basic freedom of association. However, it seems more than half of all libertarians throw freedom of association out the window when it comes to immigration, and want to forcibly prevent others from having people from other countries within the properties of said others.
seasonal work visas take a few weeks to get. and we do hundreds of thousands of them a year.
and even if, none of that excuses breaking out laws and entering illegally.
you can not have lax immigration laws with a welfare state. smart libertarians understand that. until the welfare state is abolished, we have to have strict border control.
Don't worry, real libertarians do still exist.
John Locke taught us that Property=resources+labor. Therefore, no one owns the border. And if I want to sell an American house to a Mexican citizen? None of your business
the only thing correct in your comment was that the only real borders are private borders. you either missed the point, or recite false data otherwise. freedom of association implies freedom of disassociation, and between the tyranny of closed borders, and open borders, closed borders are easier to deal with, at least until we can deal with the welfare system before that.
Trust, is the key part. Mass immigration in the EU has come with (predominantly) young males who arrive illegally without documentation or any proof of identity, with embassies unable to confirm either.
If you cant be trusted from that first meeting then oppsy; you've lost the privilege of opportunity.
"purity test" - perfect, couldn't have said it better
Thanks for the educational, civil, intelligent debate. If only the debates entered into by our elected leaders could be like this…😢
Robby is right that it may be impossible to secure the border, and the labor is good for the GDP, but the part about Amber’s argument that resonates with me is that we shouldn’t be rewarding people for breaking the rules. It’s not fair to the immigrants that followed the rules and went through all the “years” of work. It’s not fair to the businesses that follow labor laws when other businesses profit by skirting those laws, etc.
We should make it easier for people to come here and work and even immigrate. But we shouldn’t reward people for breaking the rules.
Let's just agree to say: invaders.
The problem that we have in western civilization to date is that there is going to have to be a compromise on this at some point down the road given how fertility and birth rates are on the decline at alarming rates in the west.
In short because of this, there won't be enough people to provide goods and services to a population that is going to age for the next two generations (gen-x, and millennials) and for the boomers who still be around to rely on the services of Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare.
If the neo-populist luddites are not going to go the way of AI because they fear that it's going to take away our jobs, while also making no compromise on the immigration issue and completely closing the border, then how do they suppose we meet the demands of the goods and services that are going to come with taking care of an aging population in the not too distant future? By printing more fiat money to cause more inflation? Raising taxes to put an even bigger squeeze on the average Americans take home pay?
TL;DR - People who want to prevent AI or close the border have not thought it through about what's going to happen with an aging population that's going to need to be taken care of due to a population that won't be able to replace itself due to low birth rates.
I appreciate hearing you debate each other. True independent thinkers, not regurgitating a narrative you're forced to stick to like most shows.
This man makes very valid points this woman is just being ignorant and wants a quick and easy solution rather than taking the time to analyze and build a solid solution that benefits all
Its also bullshit Robbie that people here just don't want to work.
Why do we care what these two say? What are they experts on? (Especially Robby)
This was a great talk.
AMBER HAS THE BRAINS OUT OF THESE 2
Love this!
Immigrants are definitely good for our economy.
We should bring all words back. Break the spells.
Someone at Reason should take the ConGen course at the State Department's Foreign Service Institute
You cant reach this guy but admire the attempt
Robbie kinda deflected. Illegal immigrants working for less than minimum wage is an issue. I would prefer if there was no minimum wage, but at the very least they should crack down on ppl working for less than what a citizen is allowed to work for. Keeping citizens out of the labor market because they are not legally allowed to compete is a bad thing.
I know it could be a cognitive bias but Robby is right about nearly every single point when I do my own research
Prior to covid we had 11 million people here illegally, 8 million working, and we were considered at full employment. So obviously we are not allowing sufficient immigration and we have a significant sector, agriculture, that's based on people who are easily exploited.
So if you support the status quo, you are complicit in that exploitation. And if you are advocating that only people with work authorization should be employed, understand that food costs will go up.
In a nation of obese ppl, that's no disaster.