SKI GEOMETRY BASICS (length, underfoot, camber, rocker)
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- Season 04, Episode 86: I was going to make a 2024 skiing buying guide and this is kind of what that turned into ha! As I mentioned, my goal is to hopefully raise some awareness and maybe introduce some terminology that is often used when looking at skis so you can be more knowledgeable and hopefully be able to make a more educated decision on your purchases in the future.
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0:00 Fun intro
0:20 no fun intro
2:19 ski length
8:18 underfoot/sidecut
14:53 camber
19:20 rocker
23:26 side by side comparison
25:29 rocker v camber relationship
30:24 outro
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a little something new with a video like this, but hopefully this helps someone out there who is potentially confused with the terminology that is often associated with skis. thanks for watching!
Im for this video
You sir are the goat when it comes to anything skiing… your knowledge and wisdom is such a blessing for people starting out! Dont ever stop!
Great job and on point. I’m an old east coast skier who spends a month out west each winter. Lucky enough to have both ends of the spectrum in my west coast quiver. Back home 80 under foot and 196 length for speed and stability. Keep up the good work.
just wanted to say thanks for this video - I've been renting for like 15 years and am just starting to buy my own gear, and realized that I don't actually know anything about skis. This video was super helpful!
The greatest sport on earth and we have one of the greatest ski teachers giving us all great pointers to keep the season at its premium
Ha it’s the best sport out there but can’t accept the second part!
@@LucasCatania17 your definitely giving us some great illustrations on technique and you don't even realize it....... keep the great vids coming....
I think you’re better at teaching/passing on knowledge than you give yourself credit for bro. Solid tutorial, very informative. I think if the people who regularly ask this question watch this, it will give them a great base of understanding and solid starting point, to then further their knowledge regarding specific skis and brands. 🙏 Sensei 🤙
Thank you brother. That was my goal with it. Hopefully provide some clarity or insight to help funnel people into the right starting point.
This is the best explanation of ski geometry I have ever been exposed to.
Stoked to hear that!
Me watching this video despite having all the skis I want...
You hit the nail on the head with this one though, some of the stuff that came to mind for me:
- Skis don't really know how tall you are. They know how strong you are and how heavy you are.
- Going longer seems to be the way to go. Long skis have this effect of just averaging out everything under your feet.
- I always hear you talking about mounting at the recommended point. It's 100% the way to go, the ski was engineered that way.
ha! glad some of the points resonated with you still! and absolutely, skis are obviously so much just about balance and the weight distribution. i know there are definitely cases with pro skiers who like their bindings mounted at specific points on the ski, but for most of us, factory rec is just fine!
@@LucasCatania17 Yep and most of the time if you wanna mount an all mtn ski more centre you should just buy the ski that is meant to be mounted there
Please make merch, definetly want to support considering the crazy amount of quality and content you put out.
thank you! we have stickers if those work for you :D
Lucas you did a great job explaining all this… THANK YOU!
My skis: Atomic Redster X9 114 - 65.5 - 99.5
Dupraz D2 White Curve 155 - 103 - 135 (very little camber & asymmetrical profile)
Dupraz D2 HappyD 170 - 115 - 150 (asymmetrical profile)
NOTE: Dupraz skis have a PISTE sidecut and a POWDER sidecut
Appreciate that alain! Thank you for sharing your quiver!
Can't wait to watch getting all jacked up for the new season thanks for keeping us abreast of things
A very good resource (besides Lucas) is RICKETY SKI REVIEWS. The presenter (Elliott) is a former Burke Mountain Academy racer, he really understands how a ski is supposed to function.. he also understands technique.
Be careful with Rickety Ski Reviews, he puts out as much incorrect info as correct info. He is honest, but not up to date in his info. The info Lucas has on this video is 100% accurate in my opinion. I have been race coaching for 10 years and had to get educated on ski "details" to answer questions from my racers and parents. Kudo's to Lucas.
This video answers all the questions I've been too embarrassed to DM you about.
Don’t be embarrassed. Always feel free to reach out if you have a question.
who knew there was so much to picking out a ski! What a great teacher LUCAS!! Very well presented! ❤❤❤. thanks for picking out mine for me!!!!
Thank you mother! Your skis are great
As someone who is looking to buy their first set of skis this winter, this video was super informative and useful for my understanding of skis and decision making, thanks a lot 👍🏼
I’m so glad. Welcome to the beautiful sport of skiing!
Nicely done Lucas. Lets pray for snow!
Thanks bill! The cold temps can come any time now!
This is dope! Love the camera setup you went with. I have a similar video for snowboards publishing next week.
Thanks TJ! And awesome. Now we’ll have both the skiers and boarders covered 😎
Good content for expanding the ski community and enabling more fun on the snow.
Well done man.
That was the point. Thank you!!
If you ski the ice coast you’ll want a under foot narrow compared to out west . Great info Lucas ❤ the stoke
Yes definitely bon!
Excellent information. Appreciate your generosity in sharing your knowledge and stoke. Enjoy Bro ✌️
It's been years since I last skied and just getting back into in my late 40s. This was so informative and an eye-opener to where skis are today versus where they were in the 90s. I'm 5'10 and it use to be "the longer, the better bro" but nowadays not the case. I definitely fall into that 3rd quadrant. Eventually I'll purchase some skis again, but until then I'll have fun demoing a bunch and trying out these various camber and rocker. Maybe I'l see you around Tahoe some day. Great video!
thanks paul! definitely the way to go is to just demo and see what you like/dislike! so many great options out there and tahoe you get just about every condition possible during a season haha!
Awesome information. Thank you for sharing.
The best explanation I have ever seen regarding ski geometry. Clear, simple and beautifully illustrated.
This was insanely well-explained. You had answers to questions I didn't even know I had.
Glad it was helpful man
lol lets fucking go! I never thought i'd see the day :) awesome brother
Hahaha it happened
Best explainninng out there! Thanks a lot!
I got my first Armada Declivity Ski because of you. Thank you for showing, and keep doing what you do.
This was helpful. You really should think about starting a side hustle doing private lessons while you are traveling. You shred and are WAY better than you give yourself credit for.
I really appreciate that Brett. Maybe something I venture into down the road as I continue to gain experience.
Best video I've ever seen on this topic!
Ha! I appreciate that brother.
10/10 explanation! Would love to get a follow up video that goes into more advanced details of ski geometry as well!
Glad you liked it! There definitely could be a part 2 that goes more in depth and talks about ski composition etc!
super nice video to have, when i was buying my first pair of twigs i didnt really know what to look for and youtube really helped me
Totally! Just familiarizing yourself with the lingo is a big step !
Good info. Saving this video.
Very informative , well put together video. You continue to put out the best ski content on youtube. Nice job.
glad it was helpful seth!
Amazing vid. Really helped me understand what everything was. Thank you so much.
Glad it was helpful my friend!
great video! i already know all this stuff but still enjoyed watching and love the paper format!
Ha that’s good to know!
Amazing video!!👏🏽 super helpful
Thank you grace!
Awesome video, I’ve been looking to get new skis this season and this definitely helped me understand a lot more about what I should get, keep up the great work man!🙂
thanks mark! glad it was helpful!
Great job on this video. Good job of explaining to the new skiers
Thank you Paul!
loving the content. So excited for the season to start
Me too!!
Thanks for this info Lucas. Great video. Brings a lot of context to choosing a first set of skis for newbies like me. Keep it up!
My pleasure! Thanks for watching!
Solid explanation on this evermore expanding topic. I fully agree, everyone is right and everyone is wrong, ultimately you have to ask yourself what kind of skiing you want to optimize for, and that is hyper-personal decision.
Excellent instructional video!! I understand those basic terms so much better now.
thanks abbey! glad it was helpful for you!
I’ve never understood a lot of this, the visuals are super helpful!
Glad it was helpful Paul!
Last year I was in a school ski team and I had race skis aswell, this year I quit and wanted to try park so thanks for the video as it was insanely helpful!! I learned so much and when I get my next pair of skis ill defo take all the diffrent aspects in mind. Thanks man!!
Super stoked to hear that man. Good luck out there!
A+ for your presentation on the ski buying guide. Great explanations and use of visuals. I bought new skis last year, Volkl M6 Mantra, and in retrospect, could have gone a little longer in length. But for the few times I get out each season, they work fine for me.
Thank you Jeff! The mantra is a fabulous ski. In your next set, you can bump up in size but like you said, it’s not a massive deal for the most part!
This was a great video and I really want u to go back to Canada for skiing again like "Lake Louise"
yeah im planning on skiing there again!
Can't wait to see the Stokes squad this season keeping us all on an even keel so to speak.... 😂
Hell yea jack!
Great video. Few others out there have explained it this well. Also really liked the graphs as an explanation.
thanks kade. i'm definitely a visual person when it comes to a lot of this stuff.
Hey Lucas, Love the videos! You're an amazing skier!
Have you ever made a video teaching how to sharpen or wax your skis? I love the way you present this material and feel like I can learn so much from you
Well done dude, your passion shined during this education.
Thanks Travis!
Best tutorial I've ever watched!!
Glad you liked it man!
If you ever want to get super nerdy with it theres a really good podcast called big picture skiing and they had a recent episode with Erik Schlopy were they just talk shop in a bar and its pretty interesting to hear an Olympians insights on stuff. But love the content you need to give yourself a little more credit man you definitely have wisdom to share.
I will say that a 90mm underfoot can also be a good all mountain ski depending on the ski construction. Example, K2 Mindbender Ti. Because of the placement of the TI player it can cut through the groomers and is easily floatable in 12" of freshies.
For sure! I would definitely be reaching for something a lot wider if it was truly a 12” storm, but any ski can be used in any condition when it comes down to it.
Watched your video, thought it was excellent, then ordered short, narrow skis! 😂 I’ve never been so happy on my Kaestle MX75’s!
I know what you mean about the bigger platform- it’s just not where I’m at now or where I’m skiing most of the time. My tried and true 93mm not crazy long Head Kores still come out on softer days. Maybe one day- but for now I’m mostly on piste and digging narrower skis.
Been looking at MX75! Seems to be a slalom ski, but for realistic conditions. Is it close to a real slalom ski or is it more all mountain?
@@paulblichmann2791 All mountain- Kaestle advertises them as such.
I’ve never been more than a recreational skier so take this with a grain of salt - but the turn radius doesn’t seem that short to me. I can whip them around easily for short turns and in moguls - but naturally they want to be driven at a good speed with widish turns. But maybe an actual slalom skier would educate me on this.
The shovels are quite big so they just plow through (and I feel really confident in) all snow conditions. They really sing on ice, hard pack and through crud. They’re great frontside and in most bowl conditions. I wouldn't call them playful but mine are short and I feel a lot of control and responsiveness even in the trees.
Some reviewers say the tips are too noisy and need to be dampened. I disagree. That high pitched noise is feedback from the ski that you aren’t in the front of the boot, bending and driving the ski properly. They are very quiet when you are using your body well.
One day I was getting sick and was really tired and I understood why the salesperson was trying to discourage me from buying them. They really don’t like sloppy turning technique. I would also say they probably won’t work with soft, mushy boots. But I really love them. They brought joy back into my skiing and I feel like they are helping me grow as a skier.
I have the 2022 model but I don’t think they changed much since them.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
This is such a great video
Glad you liked it man!
Great Video! I have Head's 88 @158 but I am short and more of a resort skier. Also have Montec gear and LOVE it. The only thing I am missing is that great bag you gave away last year! Have a great season!
haha so glad to hear that louise! i have a few extra that i might give away :D
Leave it to Lucas to be out here graphing the economics of rocker and camber 😂
😂😂 I’m definitely a visual learner.
Need a Demo Day!
I want to try the 98 QST's; Volkl Mantra M6's; Rossi Sender Ti 104's; Head Kores; Bent 100's; Blizzard Rustlers; and the ARV 100's.
definitely! gonna try to do a demo day this year!
This affirms my decision to buy the Bent 100 last season. Those are pretty much right down the middle for all the categories mentioned here, which is exactly what I was looking for. They allow me to pretty much ski whatever I want in 95% of conditions.
Love to hear that man. That is such a good one ski quiver for anything you’ll find yourself in! 🙌🏽
I was literally going to send you a message asking for help on buying skis and then ran into this. Thanks so much for making this video. Do you know of any places in the Utah area that you can demo skis?
Living on the East coast you're exactly right about the powder skiing. Its so much more different when going out West. Any further tips and tricks you can give on skiing powder?
speed is your friend, think about pinching your thighs together and have the right ski for the conditions if possible!
Thanks, this is very helpful. My question relates to groomers in general. Not a lot of "real" powder here in the east. I am an older skier (74) and returned to skiing 2 years ago. I am 5'11", 180lbs. Have been working on my carving since my return. I learned on a pair of Atomic Race (166cm/ 66mm/ 13.3 arc). Friends have told me I should be looking for a softer ski to protect my knees, but I like to ski aggressively. Most advice and suggestions have been confusing and as you point out, there is so much variability to consider, that a decision becomes subjective - what you like. That is why "demoing" skis to gain direct experience, as you point out, is a useful thought. Any other guidance you can give me would be appreciated.
Great video, but I would add importance of the stiffness of the ski. Makes a BIG difference. My Volkl Mantras 96 underfoot are much stiffer than my Dynastar Cham98 98mm underfoot. Both skis are roughly 180 but ski very different. Mantra is awesome on hardback and with speed, but not as fun in powder because of less rocker and stiffness. It is capable but doesn’t float like my other ski. Weight of ski is also something to consider if you like doing jump turns on really steep terrain.
yah very true. there are a lot of factors that contribute to the stiffness of a ski. definitely could do a whole video on ski composite.
I totally agree on your comments about a one quiver setup (mine is 107 underfoot). You should add ski composition (mostly effects weight, & flexibility). My one quiver setup is Backland 107 189cm (I'm 6'2"): challenging in the PNW crud, but really fun/lively in the pow.
Definitely! I was going to add a final section on ski composition and talk mostly about wood v metal, but just wanted to keep the video a bit shorter and more digestible I guess!
The rocker versus camber chart puts the MBA to use. That's informative and unexpected.
Glad it was helpful!
Hey I’m thinking of getting pow skis this season, I’m about 5’ 8.5” and 130lbs, would a 185 cm ski be too tall, I do like big mountain/ freeride skiing.my main concern is my weight and if I’m too light weight to enjoy a long ski like that
I'm a snowboarder who's interested in trying skiing for the first time this year. I'm generally pretty athletic and snowboarding came to me very quickly in my mid 20s. Should I lean towards renting a short & narrow set of skis to try, or go for the full experience/challenge and get something closer to my actual size? Could the length really prevent me from learning and making my first turns?
Not bad at all Lucas.... I am sure Elliot from Ricketty Ski Reviews may pick on some of the points you are trying to explain. LOL!!!
Me personally being an East coast skier that does two or three trips out west each year; I do own three pairs of skis for the reasons you have explained. An 88mm a 104mm and a 116mm under foot. Length wise 176cm, 179cm & 185cm respectively. I am 5'-9" weight 185lb. All my skis have camber under foot, the Atomic Maverick 88's have very little rocker tip and tail, the Nordica Enforcer 104's have a medium tip & tail rocker and my Armada JJ's which have quite a bit of rocker on the tip and tail... as you probably know from yours... although mine are around 15 years old they have a similar shape. Love these skis they are in great shape as they are only used when I go out west and on powder. I also bring my 104's in case conditions are no bueno... which happens. Here in the East I certainly bring the Atomics primarily but the Enforces always come along as well, just in case a few inches fall off and, as usual, turn into crappy chunky crud or over skied loose conditions... what else is new?.... bottom line... I enjoy each and everyday that I am on the slopes, no matter the conditions, all you need is the "RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB"!!!! See you at Powder Mountain Utah, Jan.20-24, Grand Targhee Jan 25-28 or in Colorado, Vail/Breckenridge/Keystone Feb. 25-March 2 .... third trip probably Lake Tahoe early April. Let it snow!!! Can't Wait!!!!
Thank you for sharing! Glad to see another pair of JJs out there!
Lucas generally speaking you did a great job simplifying ski geometry basics! However, I think your explanation of edge pressure was a bit off or undeveloped. You can draw this out on a piece of paper. With a narrower ski underfoot you have a shorter leverage arm from the center of the ski to the edge, this makes them easier to get on edge. Whereas, a wider ski underfoot side has a longer leverage arm and requires a high force to achieve the same edge angle. Lots of stability and control comes from the ability to utilize your edges. Learning to carve a ski seems hard enough for the general population. I see too many folks on skis too wide for their ability and it really impedes them accessing the edges to learn to properly carve a ski.
Yah I mean just depends how In depth you want to get in explaining the “why” behind each point!
On snowboard I'm camber to flat. Rocker is easier, but less "pop" or power. My Jones Hovercraft for powder is camber between the feet but with a long nose of rocker. My Donek is same length, but full camber and WIDE for deep groomer carves a la Ryan Knapton.
Awesome man. Didn’t know you were a boarder!
@@LucasCatania17 I learned to ski in the mid 80s at Mammoth. I started snowboarding in 1990. My skis got stolen in 1992 at Big Bear, so I had to learn to get "skier level" good on a board . I didn't board with my skier friends until 1994 but by then I could do moguls, downhill and trees with them. Now, I mostly board like a skier.
I will say boarding is better on my knees and ankles than skiing. I would like to try the new ski tech at some point though.
Crazy to think when me and Papa Joe started skiing skis were almost all the same except length long and narrow 😊
haha i know ! that is super wild to think about. couldnt even imagine!
This should be your ted talk 😂
😂😂😂 maybe so!
El ocho rio bien rico 0:02!
Lucas, thank you for this video, I learned a lot! Can u believe I thought my Atomic Vantage 75 was a good ski? I thought 75 was just a model number, not something so important. I’ll sell it and get another one around 88-95 (Because of my low intermediate level and the fact that I live in the Northeast). Do u have any ski recommendations?
It doesnt mean the Vantage 75 is a bad ski by any means! It likely is one of the better choices for northeast conditions to be honest because theres a lot more hardpack conditions out there. You actually might struggle with a wider ski like a 95 at the moment. Maybe bumping up to something in the 80mm range, but I would caution you on going too wide for east coast skiing for sure!
@@LucasCatania17 Thanks of the advice! I meant about the 75 that after your video i realize that it's not what i want to be as a skier, I dont want to be a race carve skier and your video showed me that 75 is way fair towards carving. Anyway, i sold my 75 and got an Atomic Maverick 86 C (Which is actually 88 wide). Once more thank you!
Rocker in the 133s is rather frightening 😂
It’s so gnarly man haha
Lets all say this again "POWDER"
One more time now
Ski Length.. Another factor is the conditions.. If I am open powder I can go longer but if I am in tight trees or moguls I want to be shorter..
Yah that’s what I said
Ski Length.. I would also mention construction.. Flimsy skis might work in the Powder but not on everything else.. I would also say background matters.. I have a racers background and I was there while race skis were transitioning from straight to shaped skis.. I am 5.9 210 and when I was racing over 25 years ago I was 180.. My race skis are 170 x 72.. I still use those skis early season when there are tons of people on the hill to ski around.. Those skis are extremely stiff from the construction.. Of the new pairs of skis that I bought I do have one pair that is 184 length and works great in POW but it also has a shorter turn radius (15M) so they do work when there is a ton of people.. The issue is that they are too turny and catchy.. My main thing is that I need to be forward in the skis all the time.. The other skis that I bought were 180-179-177-177.. The 180s I got rid of because they were too reactionary.. The rest of the skis have 2 sheets of metal and they are very solid, damp, and heavy skis..
Waist Width.. I completely agree with you.. I have been in some bowls where it was hardpack and icy that my 88s (shorter waist width) worked great..
Ski Camber.. When I was in racing I would use my skis for 2 season.. Then I would lose the camber.. What does that mean? The camber was the part of the ski that would hold an edge and give the ski energy.. I imagine that you are going to explain it so I won't go into a lot of detail but I look at it like a spring.. When you flex that spring it is going to create energy.. That energy is going to spring you into the next turn..
Rocker.. I am still learning this.. As a racer I was only concerned with camber..
133 underfoot LOL...thats a snowboard. I'd take just one.
Rocker in the tail is the worst. If you get the backseat you're on your ass. Rental skis with super weak tails are obnoxious.
dear friend, I watch all your videos, but I don’t understand what you are saying. Please turn on Russian subtitles
Sorry about that!
I do not like seeing rockered skis. They look pre-bent. You should bend your own skis. That's the point of the sport.