Another great video. I have practiced different martial arts for over 30 years and hate it when I would be taught under the traditional martial arts. To be honest, I have only met 3-4 true traditional martial arts masters and they all have talked about what you have talked about. They also train a lot differently than the so called TMA that were out there in the 70's to now. True TMA masters try to learn a lot of different other arts. But only usually after they have put over 10 years into their own arts. Then they go visit other arts. And if they are defeated, they would stay and study under that art and then move on. That is usually another 10 years. Then they come back and get tested by their masters and then maybe, they are then allowed to "leave the mountain". These they also trained 8 + hour days easy. 7 days a week. There are barely anyone that does that unless they have a school or the financial means to meet that. The so called TMA from the 70's that started in the 60's were mostly designed to meet financial goals. Coupled with continued lost of knowledge each generation. It took wrestlers, BJJ, judo and boxing to make them honest. Iam grateful that there are still folks like you, Sifu, sensei Sayf to be honest, to point out, to speak out the truth. There are Wing Chun folks that do speak out.But their voices are drowned out by the charlatans because the charlatans usually have more economic means for some reason and have the power to surpress. Thanks for another wonderful video. People who practice wing Chun should not be offended by this but to see this as an invaluable lesson. You never said Wing Chun didn't work. You just said it doesn't work when trying to out box a boxer. Peace
Very overlooked channel. It always annoys me how sport fighters learn a little about sport combat and think they know what works in the street and what doesn’t. Or even people that have been in some steeet fights and think they know everything that does and doesn’t work. What I like about this channel is that this guy has experienced all sorts of situations and toyed with a large variety of martial arts. Experience matters a lot. Most people acquire a small amount of experience in one area and think they know how everything works.
I have taken Wing Chun for 1 year many years ago and I wish you were my teacher! I feel cultural ideology, closed mindedness and little to zero sparing is the problem with most traditional martial arts. "Distance" in MMA, aka "Long Bridge vs Short Bridge" in Chinese, but you are the first person I came across, who clearly demonstrate Wing Chun as a "short bridge" fighting style. BTW, much respect on creating quality content on your channel that does not rely on click bait tactics. Your channel deserves much more viewers and slowly but surely, I am confidant with your insight and integrity, your channel will grow!
I like where you applied the butterfly palms at the end. In hungar and some forms of wing chun, you can butterfly palm the second punch all the way to the hip by controlling the arm. It tends to work because the boxer has committed to that second punch.
Thank you bro I been trying to teach my nephews this there whole lives my father taught wing chun so I studied my whole life but I support boxing is the most effective when fighting with just the hands it’s more efficient but it’s the same principle of blocking your center line but I feel to fully understand wing chun and be able to apply it in a street fight you must learn how to box because when you spar live with contact you see what works and what doesn’t and what works for you and you gotta mix Brazilian jui jitsu in the training but this is a great video I’m def sending this to my pop
So true, Wing Chun is not designed for prolonged combat. Its more of a soldier on a battlefield mindset. It doesnt translate well to sport w/o significant modifications. Example, chi sau is wing chun's specialty. Where is the sensitivity in chi sau with gloves on? Using wing chun to box a boxer, is like having a knife in your hand trying to box a boxer. Why? That would require a whole other strategy. Great vid.
Here is my simple explanation: boxers mostly see punches coming using their eyes, wing chun people mostly feel what their opponent is going to do after contact is made. This means wing chun works in a range in which you can punch faster than your opponent can react using their eyes. Out of that range you can use a more dynamic base and feints and low line kicks to get into your preffered range. But this is something almost no one seems to do.
Floris van Lingen: For WC to feel after contact is made it must use it's BRIDGE to initiate STICKING to the enemy. It does not do that well as has been shown. Also, if all it had to do was feel, no outside tools would be used. Using ONLY tactile skills would not be WC as much as BJJ.
I totally agree almost every sparring match with a wing Chun person they just throw their wing Chun out the door and don't use it ... They don't even Stick at all
Great points. The wing chun i was thought is very different from the so called "wing chun" you see in youtube. We immediately close the gap,frame(our knees and elbows/arms to our oppenent),and set up different attacks(knees,elbows,throat strikes etc.) We need to be more conceptual base and be mobile to our movements, not be rigid and misunderstanding traditions or what is thought to us. Note: the stance of wingchun was meant for when you're in the close range position,because it has many uses if you're in "close range". When you're in the long to mid range postition between your opponent, you need to be more mobile and move more (don't be a rigid statue)
Coach's argument is valid, but your argument even though the conclusion might be right but not the premise. You see there is a fight happened between "Wing Chun" practitioner and a boxer in China. The Wing Chun bare knuckles and allowed to do whatever they want, in other words it is a free full body contact fights. While the boxer not only restricted from using his feet and using his gloves, he even restricts himself to only uses one hand to fight, with that in mind he beats the "Wing Chun" guy. The reason is like the coach says in this video and his other previous video is that because many of Wing Chun practitioner are stick to the basic form. If Wing Chun is a trash, Tony Ferguson will not borrowed its technique during his last fight.
Hello Sayf... I've just revisited your E -book yesterday ( PUNCHLINES: VOL 1 ) that came out in 2017.. Wow, what a brilliant piece of work.' a must read people if you like the total raw realism of the martial arts.
Greetings brother you know I love your content I just hate the fact that I didn't know you were around when I was back in the tri-state area I've definitely would have gone to your school but I'm going to revisit the tri-state area very soon and would love to come to your class and take a few lessons it was at all possible
the lineal champ: Of course! Just let me know when you will be in the area. Drop me an email and also tell me what you want to work on. To be honest, I lOVE it when people come to take a class! They get a chance to see that I am not all talk. In one month, I had an NCAA wrestler thank me for helping him with his single leg to double, a karate champion coming in to work on closing the distance faster and an investor asking me to open a boxing gym! You will enjoy yourself. Looking forward to meeting you!
Very good illustrations, Sayf. As I matured from the KA System, I always thought a knowledge of other styles of fighting was the key to winning any battle in tournaments & most importantly on the streets.
saladin allah: Hey Bro-in-law! Just saw your post. Yeah, man, I loooove the "System". It was a dream for me to train with K as his system WAS superior to other styles even if individuals had success against it. That said, we would go back and forth on the need to take some of the styles that would work better on the streets and add some stand up grappling to it. One that comes to mind was the Mix up. Already had the finger stabs and such. Problem was, if HE did not come up with it, it was not going in. Well, you know the rest.
I get your point and it makes sense in theory, but Ive seen so many videos, where Wing Chung practioners lose to boxers even if they are allowed to throw elbows, kicks, knees and so on.Ive never seen a Wing Chun fighter win against boxing. I think Wing CHun is great to be mixed up with other martial arts though.
@@TheUmmahFightCamp I don't want to be insulting. I grew up on kung fu movies, loved IP man but I've never seen good wing chun practionners. Wing chun advocates talk about the discipline like there's good fighters out there that we have not seen. Except that the only fighters I've seen lose consistently. You never see footage of wing chun in the streets and you rarely see them fight in competition. When you do they lose miserably. Like the fights that happened recently with the boxer kickboxer and MMA fighter. Those guys where recognised by the chinese goverment but when they lose everybody disowns them and say that they were fake, not true practicioners. The wing chun techniques are useful, but they never pressure test. Like a kid who goes into practice mode into street fighter but can't pull off is combos in a real fight. At this point you might as well do muay thai, they have knee stomps, elbows knees and heatbutts in certain forms. They actually fight though, so they're actually dangerous.
@@Smoofyful I love boxing! It was my first art and it saved me from a life of being beat up. I cannot "thank" it enough. That said, there is a reason why head butts are not allowed in boxing. You ever see a good clash of heads? I will tell you that if I head but or chop a boxer in his throat, his right hand will not matter much. And that IS coming from a boxer.
@@TheUmmahFightCamp Yes clash of heads can be devastating. For your opponent or you opponent if done incorrectly. I'm not attacking your personally but the problem with Wing Chun is that even when they have a practical technique like the headbutt the lack of sparring and unrealistic expectations of a move will make them fail. If a lethwei fighter says he's going to headbutt a boxer then I know their will be results. Despite how obscure it is their abilities are well documented. They fight and practice in a realistic manner. Kung fu in general has no practioners fighting and when they it ends badly. That one armed boxer and Xu Xiadong come to mind. Those who actually pratice hard but efficiently will prevail. You don't want to be that wing chun guy who lost to the boxer despite the fact that he was allowed to kick.
ive always felt that punches were faster after other punches it just always felt that way im glad you confirmed it can you do a vid on just that and similar attacks being faster procceding other attacks the science behind it ??
@@TheUmmahFightCamp I've referenced this video a few times mostly just to show there's more than just the vertical straight in WC. Like you, I came into WC with an amateur boxer background, and lotta Highschool wrestling. Doing my best to dispel the myths about how WC is viable with the right attitude. Samuel Kwok summed it up the best from his teacher Ip Ching and his Father Ip Man "If it looks pretty then it isn't Kung Fu." - Ip Ching I think "If you can't beat the guy in 5 punches then run like hell." Ip Man.
Do you think wing chun style striking is more useful if your on your back with someone on top of you? I know that when you're on your back you can't leverage from the hips or get kinetic energy from the ground, but I think strikes that start from the shoulders like wing chun or systema, would probably not ko people most times, but take away some top pressure from a superior grappler and give you some leeway to skirt into a more favorable position to escape.
Nothing wrong with that but some people might not have that option available to them in some situations such as someone has your legs tied up (like Khabib does), they are so much larger than you you can't buck then whilst they have a stable base, or they're position transition is superior to a bridge tactic. Not doubting that strikes from the bottom are the weakest strikes you have but just curious why this isn't explored more.
It's more effective if you are the one on top punching down rather than on the bottom punching up, because from the bottom punching up you're only offering your arms for an armbar where you should be trying to clinch and over/under hook to bring their top pressure under control - the bottom is 99% grappling skills.
wing chun kids always leave their chins out in the open and hands down, rarely ever do I see them survive the first punch lmfao, can't even grab the wrist to set up an elbow with those gloves on unless you're tony fergasun
Idk wing chun and don't need to train it to know that it is intended to be used in grappling. Curious that the Chinese don't know how to use their own art. Same thing with most styles of Chinese boxing. It's supposed to be used at grappling range. The Chinese copied these arts from a much older people.
Another great video. I have practiced different martial arts for over 30 years and hate it when I would be taught under the traditional martial arts. To be honest, I have only met 3-4 true traditional martial arts masters and they all have talked about what you have talked about. They also train a lot differently than the so called TMA that were out there in the 70's to now. True TMA masters try to learn a lot of different other arts. But only usually after they have put over 10 years into their own arts. Then they go visit other arts. And if they are defeated, they would stay and study under that art and then move on. That is usually another 10 years. Then they come back and get tested by their masters and then maybe, they are then allowed to "leave the mountain". These they also trained 8 + hour days easy. 7 days a week. There are barely anyone that does that unless they have a school or the financial means to meet that. The so called TMA from the 70's that started in the 60's were mostly designed to meet financial goals. Coupled with continued lost of knowledge each generation. It took wrestlers, BJJ, judo and boxing to make them honest.
Iam grateful that there are still folks like you, Sifu, sensei Sayf to be honest, to point out, to speak out the truth. There are Wing Chun folks that do speak out.But their voices are drowned out by the charlatans because the charlatans usually have more economic means for some reason and have the power to surpress. Thanks for another wonderful video.
People who practice wing Chun should not be offended by this but to see this as an invaluable lesson. You never said Wing Chun didn't work. You just said it doesn't work when trying to out box a boxer.
Peace
Very overlooked channel. It always annoys me how sport fighters learn a little about sport combat and think they know what works in the street and what doesn’t. Or even people that have been in some steeet fights and think they know everything that does and doesn’t work.
What I like about this channel is that this guy has experienced all sorts of situations and toyed with a large variety of martial arts. Experience matters a lot. Most people acquire a small amount of experience in one area and think they know how everything works.
The best explanation of how wing chun works by far. Thank you!
I have taken Wing Chun for 1 year many years ago and I wish you were my teacher! I feel cultural ideology, closed mindedness and little to zero sparing is the problem with most traditional martial arts. "Distance" in MMA, aka "Long Bridge vs Short Bridge" in Chinese, but you are the first person I came across, who clearly demonstrate Wing Chun as a "short bridge" fighting style. BTW, much respect on creating quality content on your channel that does not rely on click bait tactics. Your channel deserves much more viewers and slowly but surely, I am confidant with your insight and integrity, your channel will grow!
I like where you applied the butterfly palms at the end. In hungar and some forms of wing chun, you can butterfly palm the second punch all the way to the hip by controlling the arm. It tends to work because the boxer has committed to that second punch.
Excellent breakdown Sensei
THE TEACHERS!!! THIS IS WHY BRUCE LEE CHANGED THE GAME KNOW IT MAKES SINCE
Thank you bro I been trying to teach my nephews this there whole lives my father taught wing chun so I studied my whole life but I support boxing is the most effective when fighting with just the hands it’s more efficient but it’s the same principle of blocking your center line but I feel to fully understand wing chun and be able to apply it in a street fight you must learn how to box because when you spar live with contact you see what works and what doesn’t and what works for you and you gotta mix Brazilian jui jitsu in the training but this is a great video I’m def sending this to my pop
Super Da Goat Exactly. Could not of said it better.
I luv how this channel is growing the subs is going up for sure and the truth is coming up
So true, Wing Chun is not designed for prolonged combat. Its more of a soldier on a battlefield mindset. It doesnt translate well to sport w/o significant modifications. Example, chi sau is wing chun's specialty. Where is the sensitivity in chi sau with gloves on? Using wing chun to box a boxer, is like having a knife in your hand trying to box a boxer. Why? That would require a whole other strategy. Great vid.
Here is my simple explanation: boxers mostly see punches coming using their eyes, wing chun people mostly feel what their opponent is going to do after contact is made. This means wing chun works in a range in which you can punch faster than your opponent can react using their eyes. Out of that range you can use a more dynamic base and feints and low line kicks to get into your preffered range. But this is something almost no one seems to do.
Floris van Lingen: For WC to feel after contact is made it must use it's BRIDGE to initiate STICKING to the enemy. It does not do that well as has been shown. Also, if all it had to do was feel, no outside tools would be used. Using ONLY tactile skills would not be WC as much as BJJ.
I totally agree almost every sparring match with a wing Chun person they just throw their wing Chun out the door and don't use it ... They don't even Stick at all
Agree 💯 %
thanks for such good video !!
Hey man thx for pointing me here, excellent content, very insightful!
O.G. FITNESS no problem Brou !!
Great points. The wing chun i was thought is very different from the so called "wing chun" you see in youtube. We immediately close the gap,frame(our knees and elbows/arms to our oppenent),and set up different attacks(knees,elbows,throat strikes etc.) We need to be more conceptual base and be mobile to our movements, not be rigid and misunderstanding traditions or what is thought to us.
Note: the stance of wingchun was meant for when you're in the close range position,because it has many uses if you're in "close range". When you're in the long to mid range postition between your opponent, you need to be more mobile and move more (don't be a rigid statue)
I've always said why do wing chun people fight boxers under there rules doesn't make sense
Coach's argument is valid, but your argument even though the conclusion might be right but not the premise.
You see there is a fight happened between "Wing Chun" practitioner and a boxer in China.
The Wing Chun bare knuckles and allowed to do whatever they want, in other words it is a free full body contact fights. While the boxer not only restricted from using his feet and using his gloves, he even restricts himself to only uses one hand to fight, with that in mind he beats the "Wing Chun" guy.
The reason is like the coach says in this video and his other previous video is that because many of Wing Chun practitioner are stick to the basic form. If Wing Chun is a trash, Tony Ferguson will not borrowed its technique during his last fight.
Western Boxing is bad ass and maybe do a vid on some Savate.
Hello Sayf... I've just revisited your E -book yesterday ( PUNCHLINES: VOL 1 ) that came out in 2017.. Wow, what a brilliant piece of work.' a must read people if you like the total raw realism of the martial arts.
Al: Thank my brother!
Appreciate this, thanks for the knowledge Sayf.
Greetings brother you know I love your content I just hate the fact that I didn't know you were around when I was back in the tri-state area I've definitely would have gone to your school but I'm going to revisit the tri-state area very soon and would love to come to your class and take a few lessons it was at all possible
the lineal champ: Of course! Just let me know when you will be in the area. Drop me an email and also tell me what you want to work on. To be honest, I lOVE it when people come to take a class! They get a chance to see that I am not all talk. In one month, I had an NCAA wrestler thank me for helping him with his single leg to double, a karate champion coming in to work on closing the distance faster and an investor asking me to open a boxing gym! You will enjoy yourself. Looking forward to meeting you!
Very good illustrations, Sayf. As I matured from the KA System, I always thought a knowledge of other styles of fighting was the key to winning any battle in tournaments & most importantly on the streets.
saladin allah: Hey Bro-in-law! Just saw your post. Yeah, man, I loooove the "System". It was a dream for me to train with K as his system WAS superior to other styles even if individuals had success against it. That said, we would go back and forth on the need to take some of the styles that would work better on the streets and add some stand up grappling to it. One that comes to mind was the Mix up. Already had the finger stabs and such. Problem was, if HE did not come up with it, it was not going in. Well, you know the rest.
+TheUmmahFightCamp can we get more wing chun counters for boxing? That is very usful!
Brilliant video. Thank you!
Mark Hotson: Thank YOU!
1:45 this is what Francis did against AJ and got punished
wing chun seeks to smother/ tie up and then apply striking from with in the clinch using chi sau skills ?
ruckess12000ruckess: The usage of REAL Chi sau is also lacking.
I get your point and it makes sense in theory, but Ive seen so many videos, where Wing Chung practioners lose to boxers even if they are allowed to throw elbows, kicks, knees and so on.Ive never seen a Wing Chun fighter win against boxing. I think Wing CHun is great to be mixed up with other martial arts though.
ShiiShani: I HAVE NOT seen an equally sized WC fighter with good skills use ALL WC tools and get his butt beat by a boxer.
@@TheUmmahFightCamp I don't want to be insulting. I grew up on kung fu movies, loved IP man but I've never seen good wing chun practionners. Wing chun advocates talk about the discipline like there's good fighters out there that we have not seen. Except that the only fighters I've seen lose consistently. You never see footage of wing chun in the streets and you rarely see them fight in competition. When you do they lose miserably. Like the fights that happened recently with the boxer kickboxer and MMA fighter.
Those guys where recognised by the chinese goverment but when they lose everybody disowns them and say that they were fake, not true practicioners.
The wing chun techniques are useful, but they never pressure test. Like a kid who goes into practice mode into street fighter but can't pull off is combos in a real fight. At this point you might as well do muay thai, they have knee stomps, elbows knees and heatbutts in certain forms. They actually fight though, so they're actually dangerous.
@@Smoofyful I love boxing! It was my first art and it saved me from a life of being beat up. I cannot "thank" it enough. That said, there is a reason why head butts are not allowed in boxing. You ever see a good clash of heads? I will tell you that if I head but or chop a boxer in his throat, his right hand will not matter much. And that IS coming from a boxer.
@@TheUmmahFightCamp Yes clash of heads can be devastating. For your opponent or you opponent if done incorrectly. I'm not attacking your personally but the problem with Wing Chun is that even when they have a practical technique like the headbutt the lack of sparring and unrealistic expectations of a move will make them fail. If a lethwei fighter says he's going to headbutt a boxer then I know their will be results. Despite how obscure it is their abilities are well documented. They fight and practice in a realistic manner. Kung fu in general has no practioners fighting and when they it ends badly. That one armed boxer and Xu Xiadong come to mind. Those who actually pratice hard but efficiently will prevail. You don't want to be that wing chun guy who lost to the boxer despite the fact that he was allowed to kick.
I believe that if someone who knows very good wing chun like Ip man , will win someone who knows very good boxing 🥊
ive always felt that punches were faster after other punches it just always felt that way im glad you confirmed it can you do a vid on just that and similar attacks being faster procceding other attacks the science behind it ??
Your logic is undeniable.
So basically, for Wing Chun to best shut down Boxing, practitioners have to learn to up their clinch game
I think it's bridging the gap and using the wc skills.
There is a human tendency to do what you opponent does. If he kicks, you try to kick. If he punches, you try to punch. Why is that?
Bravo. That was a perfect breakdown.
50k3r2: Thanks dude!
@@TheUmmahFightCamp I've referenced this video a few times mostly just to show there's more than just the vertical straight in WC. Like you, I came into WC with an amateur boxer background, and lotta Highschool wrestling. Doing my best to dispel the myths about how WC is viable with the right attitude.
Samuel Kwok summed it up the best from his teacher Ip Ching and his Father Ip Man
"If it looks pretty then it isn't Kung Fu." - Ip Ching I think
"If you can't beat the guy in 5 punches then run like hell." Ip Man.
@@i-evi-l lol!
What are we talking about here? Boxing vs Wing Chung with Boxing rules or Boxing vs Wing Chung in the streets death match?
Great lesson
Do you think wing chun style striking is more useful if your on your back with someone on top of you? I know that when you're on your back you can't leverage from the hips or get kinetic energy from the ground, but I think strikes that start from the shoulders like wing chun or systema, would probably not ko people most times, but take away some top pressure from a superior grappler and give you some leeway to skirt into a more favorable position to escape.
Nothing wrong with that but some people might not have that option available to them in some situations such as someone has your legs tied up (like Khabib does), they are so much larger than you you can't buck then whilst they have a stable base, or they're position transition is superior to a bridge tactic. Not doubting that strikes from the bottom are the weakest strikes you have but just curious why this isn't explored more.
It's more effective if you are the one on top punching down rather than on the bottom punching up, because from the bottom punching up you're only offering your arms for an armbar where you should be trying to clinch and over/under hook to bring their top pressure under control - the bottom is 99% grappling skills.
'sticking body, short strike'.
Good video
Good video.
I aint mad. Im agreeing. My sifu said more or less the same thing.
He doesn't understand wing chun.
real shit, i want u to train me
wing chun kids always leave their chins out in the open and hands down, rarely ever do I see them survive the first punch lmfao, can't even grab the wrist to set up an elbow with those gloves on unless you're tony fergasun
Idk wing chun and don't need to train it to know that it is intended to be used in grappling. Curious that the Chinese don't know how to use their own art.
Same thing with most styles of Chinese boxing. It's supposed to be used at grappling range. The Chinese copied these arts from a much older people.
Good vid btw
@@brian4479 alot of martial arts came from Africa
blackrage 843 not really more came from Europe and the best like wrestling and boxing.