❤thank u for your comment. The thing is my malignant husband insists he gets groceries, and comes back home with half of what’s on the list, and says I do not Deserve it. This goes on and on and makes me physically sick 😢 One example of his cruelty. I’m 😅 happy now cuz I see who he is and working on recovery and breaking free. I’m so grateful for Dr Ramani 🎉🎉🎉
They know they are being cruel because my ex boyfriend had moments where he acknowledged what he was doing, but it took a lot of talking to him and being logical. At other times it didn't matter what I said or did he doubled down in his narcissism and that was that.
Seasoned divorce e lawyer here. I am so happy that modern technology exists so people like Dr. Ramani have a platform to explain narcissistic personality disorder. Get educated. Vet very carefully. Do NOT marry or get into a long term relationship with a narcissist. Stay safe out there!
They might know they are hiding their true nature. But I wonder if they know their true nature is narcissistic trait. They could be thinking their true nature isn’t socially acceptable but it does good for themselves and the world. They are life-long experts in manipulation. Who knows they might manipulate their own perception to justify their behavior above all.
The scary thing is, i think I might have fallen into this category. Learned so much lately and I don't like what I see around me or of myself...... Change is hard but is sometimes needed
@bundydryandlime It's just a maybe. As far as I know, a person has to go through a lot of tests with a psychiatrist to be marked in that category. Every person in the world is a bit narcissistic. Even empaths. It is not the same as NPD.
This is very true . Especially when you see all the advertisements they make with Adults speaking with children's voices . Such as the pizza and gummy commercials . Their trying to normalize Narcissism behavior . It's bad enough that we have adult children in places of power and authority with out honor or integrity showing only self-entitlement .
Oh, yes! My ex narc actually said he didn't respect me, felt I was beneath him and all the medical intervention I did to save his life during two live threatening illnesses, he said he had no respect for me because he was entitled to this care.
Perhaps you are the narcissist without realizing it? Too many people point the blame thrower onto the outside world, when more often than not the world is a reflection of our own making. Rorri Maesu says useaMirroR
I remember once having an epiphany that my mother MUST know that her behavior is wrong because of the way she hides/misrepresents it around other people. If they didn't know it was wrong, they would behave the same way around everyone.
Wow! A great example of something which becomes obvious after someone points it out, yet somehow might not have been noticed even though it was right in front of you. Thank you, Privacy Freedom.
That paired well with my discovery that my secrecy to protect the abusive people in my life was hamstringing my getting acceptance and health. So what if they are upset that I’ve said true things? They care more about that than the damage done to me…it’s my story to tell as much as anyone else’s.
"Do narcissists know they are narcissists?" They don't use that term as a rule, they simply know they're the only one who knows anything and they're always RIGHT!
The one in my life was very incensed when I mentioned that he was obviously a narcissist (frankly a covert narcissist)! Apparently he doesn't like that honest description-maybe even really doesn't realize that it fits perfectly!
@artistelaine1061 The Coverts are the WORST in my experience. The overt ones are so obvious it's easy to spot and avoid them. The covert ones take awhile to detect and by the time you catch on, they've already begun to abuse you.
No they don't know it because they think they are perfect. "You" are the one that is selfish. This disorder comes so naturally they truly believe they don't have a problem.
Actully, I had someone straight upp tell me he is a Narcisist. I can't tell why he told me, or why he felt like he had to tell me, but it still wierds me out a bit even today. He was working in the same place as me, in a different branch.
@WendyTaggart-d9kI asked my highly narcissistic father the other day, if he considered himself to be a narcissist. Innocent like a little lamb he would look at me and said: "Yes I am." Disgusting.
That's right...but are they aware of it? Does it happen unconsciously and instinctively, or do they switch masks the moment the situation spontaneously changes?
I believe they are aware of it, they don’t care that they are. It’s a power play, I believe it begins when they are young. They learn to fine tune as the years go by. By the time they are adults, they know how, where and when to use it and to whom!
I believe they know that their behavior is wrong, which is why most of them preach about privacy and how “what happens in the home stays in the home”, because they don’t want people to know their tricks or for others to point out the abuse and support us to leave and thus they lose their supply. So regardless if they know they’re a narcissist or not, they do know their behavior is self-serving regardless of how it affects others and don’t care.
Not that simple. They may know their behavior is self-serving regardless of how it affects others and don’t care. And they may not think there is anything wrong with that at all. Think of it like this. For the longest time in human history some people kept other people as slaves. They knew they were exploiting those slaves, they knew those slaves suffered physically and emotionally. And the slave owners were perfectly OK with that, they even saw it as their (sometimes God-given) right to own other people. Even non-slave owners thought slavery was peachy-keen. This only changed when there was a huge global shift in morality after enough people realized the immorality of slave ownership and laws against it were enacted. In fact if those laws did not exist, there are still plenty of people around today who would be perfectly OK owning slaves. Narcissist need hard boundries, like laws and other measures, to fence in their toxic behaviors exactly because they DON'T see exploiting others as wrong.
@brimstone33 I agree. What I’m saying is just because they personally don’t feel like it’s wrong they know others will think so and thus try to isolate and keep their supply quiet so that others don’t learn the truth of the situation and teach their supply that they’re being manipulated and abused, in turn risking the supply from leaving and they lose their supply.
This was my dads mantra after he abandoned us and left the country. He knew my mom was abusing me physically, emotionally, and more. He eventually came back due to pressure from his family but he aggressively gaslights us.
I once asked one of those Group 4 people: "Would you rather be always right or would you rather have friends?" They answered angrily: "I want to have friends who understand that I'm right!" I realised that this relationship had no future.
It’s kinda mind blowing to me that anyone can assume they are always right. We all have issues that limit us in different ways. Also, I feel like being “right” is often subjective anyway. Many people have different views on many aspects. Who is to say who is really “right”? I think on very few aspects can people definitely agree something is “right” or “wrong.” Otherwise, it’s simply just their view.
Huh, my ex asked me this one once. The right or happy varient. I told her I don't know how to be happy. I wonder if she was testing to see if I was a narcissist?
That's a misconception. Many people with npd obsess over all kinds of possible deficits but their illness and their flip following from vulnerable to grandiose distorts their ability to see it clearly and accept it, among many other realities.
I think you're right. I think they work very hard not to admit to themselves that they have any real feelings that way. If they do know they are terrified to let anyone know, especially themselves!
The best advice I ever got was "if someone tells you they are toxic or hurt people, believe them". These people will often tell you what others have said about them, hoping you will disagree. Pay close attention, their past partners probably knew more than you do now.
I asked my ex what her ex-husband would likely say about her. She answered that he would say that she's an angry gold-digging bitch. In fairness to her I didn't see the gold digging (I didn't let things get that far) but the anger, wow, never seen anything like it in my life. It's weird that she was actually quite candid about certain things that didn't exactly paint her in the best light (for example that all her friends told her that she should never have kids, and when she did get pregnant that she should have an abortion)... I wonder whether she felt compelled to self-disclose somehow, for reasons that were opaque even to her. Once I'd worked out she likely had a cluster B personality disorder a lot of what she'd told me made a lot more sense. I would have thought that she would do everything to avoid giving herself away but looking back she definitely gave me clues, almost from day one. Weird.
That is so true narcissistic people drop hints very early to test how far they can push or what others will tolerate in their search for victims - it might be done in a comical away like laughing while admitting they are selfish
@grayhalf1854 interesting, i had similar and i assume it is because their position of being right means they cannot see anything wrong with their behaviours and as they have zero concern in reality for your feelings, they have no reason not to tell you.
I noticed that a narc that my friend has to deal with tells him “I don’t care” quiet often. And it’s when he states his feelings or how exhausted he is before she wants him to do one more chore. I said, wow, she’s actually honest here, she doesn’t just care about how you are feeling, your health, etc And it’s true, he had a healthy crisis and she blamed him for ruining the holidays, didn’t do one caring thing, actually ended up leaving him to enjoy her holidays as planned, except now he wasn’t available for extra chores as per usual. And upon her return, she just went back to giving him tasks to do, not a single word about how he is doing and if he needs anything, not a single offer of maybe you need a day off to recover more? Nope, they are such users and they tell you as much of you pay attention.
I think mine knew what she was doing but in her mind that's what everyone does so it makes it okay for her to do unto others before they do unto her. I hope this might help in your healing. It's been a hard and confusing road for me.
I disagree. Prior to realizing I was narcissistic, I had no idea the effect I had on other people. I was so self absorbed I would manipulate to get my way. I had no empathy and never even thought about what I was saying and how it affected people. I only thought about myself and how I felt and if I got what I wanted. I know now that I have done some serious damage and I have such great remorse for it. I still slip into the rage and embarrassment cycle that Dr. Ramani spoke of, but I have grown and for that I am thankful.
I was with someone who was in group 3 and I was the only one who ever held him accountable for anything but after a while it was easier to look the other way rather than deal with his wrath. When we finally went to couples therapy he accused the therapist of taking my side and after a while stopped going. I continued to go to therapy to help me deal with him and one day he thanked me to continue going to therapy because he said I really needed it. He had no idea why I was still going. In the end when I called him out on something he did, he stormed out of my life. A week later begged me to take him back but I really couldn’t allow it. It’s the best thing that happened to me.
I was with a group 2 and when I brought up therapy he would get so furious. He said there was nothing therapy could improve for him because he didn't think it worked. He said therapy was for people who actually needed it and he can work out his problems on his own. I have personally been I therapy for many years and he would also say to me "I know you need to have your therapy appointments" and things like that. Lol like kind of in a way saying I had issues I needed help with and that was something that was below him. It's so toxic. Therapy is a beautiful thing and narcissistic people seem to have such a problem with it. Probably the not wanting to be held responsible for their ways has something big to do with that.
I was with a group 3 too. Tried therapy 2 different times, both times he just lied to the therapist and made me look crazy, unstable and controlling. He would never admit to anything, sensitive narc. Everyone else was always the AH. I doubt he would ever do self reflection - living with him was very much like living with a young spoiled teenager.
@em p My mother says exactly the same thing about her doing it on her own. I tried demystifying therapy saying that you might get an idea about the situation from the therapist that you wouldn't even think of (because you're stuck in your self righteous patterns, but I didn't say that part). She got mad saying she didn't need people's ideas. If she was going to get a new idea it would be from god putting it in there. She's even threatened by someone having an idea. Her self identity is so fragile. I understand it, growing up with her mother, but come on. She's gotten so self righteous and religious lately it's barely possible to have a conversation about the weather.
I’ve had some strong narcissistic tendencies in my life that has changed over the years. Going from the grandiose overt narcissist to slipping into depression and going the covert route. It was a long process over around a decade. The whole time I saw myself as the “good guy” in every scenario. Like I always felt that my opinion was the final authority and I took it as a threat when somebody’s opinion differed. It’s a terrible feeling realizing all of the pain you caused other people when reality hits you. I can’t undo my actions and words from the past, I just try to do better every day. So yeah I belong to group 2. And I thank God above for allowing me to sober up a little mentally.
This is my wife. Can you please let me know if you changed enough to consider yourself healthy enough to have a healthy relationship? I’m strongly considering divorce. I can’t do this anymore it’s been 10 years.
@jasoncheshire6153I’m sorry to hear that. I’m not sure if I’ll ever be 100% normal compared to a healthy person. I just gave my life up one day to the lord Jesus Christ and he saved me. I didn’t become perfect, but almost instantly I could recognize when I was being a jerk,, subtly or openly. Still do. I pray that you find peace with your wife and that y’all can work it out.
@Leti.17 ironically I’d been watching surviving narcissisms channel and dr ramani’s as well. I was watching them to justify my unwarranted negative feelings about someone else lol. I was also on a spiritual journey which eventually led to me giving my life to the Lord Jesus Christ. He opened my eyes to a lot of what I truly was, and it didn’t feel good. I’ve been leaning on him for healing from my own self inflicted damage, and it’s a battle some days but it’s definitely much better than the past life I was living.
I was an only child surrounded by adult narcissists, histrionics, and enablers. I see now how much my self-trust and decision-making abilities were affected by their abuse. Today I get dismissed or berated for calling them out, but I know my feelings are valid and true. It's a breath of fresh air to hear Dr. Ramani articulate so many things that were weird when I grew up.
Shout out, another only child here who went thru it with only monsters about - so glad you made it, these chans are so deeply edifying. It makes it hard to protect oneself, because I was not allowed to. Just realized that I could have used this advice and wisdom 30 years ago.
Same here. It left me insecure for life and the worst to hear is when someone nastily says “you are just like them!” My biggest fear is to be like them. I have lots of genuine empathy, but life presents you with lots of challenges and sometimes I overreact, true. However, I find it really painful when relative in anger says ‘you are just like your father!’ So, the society or family makes the recovery impossible; any moment in behavior that they don’t like, they would easily dismiss by you are just like the narcissist so and so…Even when the fault is on their side. I find it easier to withdraw into my work.
@solobano570 This is too accurate! Toxic families almost want you to turn out crappy so they can blame you for their issues. Work is appealing because people have to act right and treat you professionally. As I type this, I'm getting ready for my commute super early so I can get out of here. I moved back to my childhood home to help my widowed stepmom, and my histrionic mom in the next town over -- but now it's all become so clear. The perfectionism, enabling, bullying, etc. Looking forward to work, and getting away from the toxicity. Insecurity can be healed with nutrition, rest, and caring for your physical body. If you wouldn't put a child in the line of fire with those people, then don't be around them either. You don't have to associate with toxic "family."
@Lacy Holmes, Yes they want you to turn out crappy. They need a scapegoat to fortify their interiority. Usually they are obsessed with your life , what you do for a living and what your home LOOKS like on Google Earth. MNPD only want compliance , admiration, and servitude. They hate to be uncomfortable. Their betrayal to you , about you, is part of their game and set up for you to do what they did to you. They have no humanity or accountability .But they sure feel their own pain. Aww. . .
The narcs I’ve encountered seem to regard the approach as just “taking care of business”. If they get what they want; the end justifies the means. If they fail; well…..it’s your fault.
LOL! Yeah, with my ex, I never would have found such a wonderful house, if it wasn't for her and her family, but whenever anything would go wrong or need repair with the house, it was all my fault and she told me not to buy that house. If anything ever went wrong, it was my fault, even if I did whatever she said or suggested, and especially if I didn't. Of course, she told me I was the manipulative one. How dare I try to suggest she treat me right now and then?
They feel quite entitled to talk down to people or treat them less than dirt sporadically. After a while, you just GET IT, and move on from the their treatment
They probably do care but their illness distorts their lens. Step away if you're being hurt by all means but having the belief they don't care is likely inaccurate and causes everyone more pain. They are sick. They need help and compassion, sometimes they are not willing to help themselves and that's sad. But taking it personally is akin to being upset when a two year old smacks you. They are stuck in a developmentally delayed state. They are probably not all treatable and I am not advocating putting yourself In harms way, however we need to see it for what it is, a sickness. Holding on to the pain as if they could have treated you better or that they acted in malice only adds to the pain and trauma to everyone.
Had it too with my husband in just agreed " yes maybe!" Something a niarcissist never would say 😅 but after a Lot experience with m narcisstic Cousin IT could BE that i have some toxic Stuff learned to survive. she got tested many years Later and she did Not know she was but she was Happy to know this at the Moment we talked the Last Time ever. It was No problematic Last Talk Just a freedom call to both of US and wishes the best to each other to get better.
My Narcs husband for over 30 years was clueless to his disjunction! I’m out running for my life. He told me that no one can stop him! Get house. I left my home, but guess what friends, IT SAVED MY LIFE! I’m out at 60 and will start all over, I’m happy, I’m joyful and able to worship my God the way I’m supposed to. I’m soo excited about my new love of my journey and the future of my business. YEAH Run for your life, I DID! There life after this relationship! I’m in therapy I hike, I travel I love people, I’m living for the first time in a very very long time. I would shrink so he’s comfortable, I was an enabler! Stepping on me all the way! Shame on me! Life is a beautiful journey and I’m all for it.
I walked away from my only sibling over 20 years ago after our father died. The true narcissistic sociopath came shining through. The sneaky crap and gas lighting was breathtaking. She is responsible for infants and toddlers at an early head start. Can't imagine.
Yep, when I got into a texting fight with a narcissist, I literally made bullet points of all the really nasty behavior on their part. They had no come back because I’ve never treated them badly. Their response was the victimization talk about how I had made them feel bad. That seems to be the pattern with our Narcissists-- Put other people down, being nasty, but then when you get called out for it, start crying about how you’re just trying to “help” the other person, or you’ve made me feel bad.
I called the police when my Narc threw an aluminium whiteboard at me. While they were on their way she said "You've made it worse for yourself by calling the police." I have it secretly recorded, but she will 100% deny saying it. When the police placed a restraining order on her, she wrote on the Order "Let this be a reminder of how much hurt you've caused." These people are well aware of their abusive behaviour, it just benefits them to play victim. For a long time I wondered if she truly had that little self awareness, but the the saddest thing is is that they DO know what they're doing. They just don't care. When I discovered that the abuse was deliberate, it just shook me that someone could be so heinous on purpose.
@latsnojokelee6434When I called out my narc brother he looked so shocked he actually paused and stopped talking for a second (FOR ONCE!) and after that he just screamed and yapped insults like a 5 year old. The same way he bullied me my whole life, except he’s like 26 years old now 🤦🏻♀️it’s crazy how time goes by yet a narc doesn’t mature emotionally at all. They basically act like Disney villains, so shameful and childish.
Yes. And being a narcissist is part of their insecurity/shame. To point out they’re a narcissist is like shining a light on every insecurity they have! Be prepared if you do call ‘em out
Narcissist or Not...I do Not let Anyone that is abusive, toxic, manipulating, negative, dark, callous, in my space, or my Life!.. There are so many of these wicked, dark people among us...I am an empath, somewhat introverted, peaceful...and spiritual not religious!...I meditate, pray, exercise moderately, eat a flexible vegetarian way of eating...maintain good mental, physical, emotional health... after my divorce years ago, I made the conscious decision to not marry again!...Having great, married, hardworking, grown children..I enjoy living a single, healthy, debt free, spiritual, simple, peaceful Life!
I once went in a date with a guy who told me his wife’s therapist said he was a narcissist. His attitude in saying it was , “Can you believe it - how crazy is that? What, me?” I did not go out with him again!!
My now ex used to say "Im just telling the truth", when it was entirely something he conjured up in his mind to fit his narrative. Once you are away from the narcissist for some time, you see very clearly many of the manipulations and gaslighting that had previously made you question yourself. Thank you, Dr. Ramani! I still say you are a treasure!
Yeah they're just soooo concerned with The Truth...unless it's something about their feelings, or why they did what they did, or why they're attacking someone in the first place.
I like that you broke it down into groups because you often hear that narcissism is a spectrum and by making these categories you defined the points on that spectrum. Some sort of graph or chart would really put this into visual perspective. The better you know who and what you're dealing with the easier its to prepare yourself, but still these relationships will never truly be easy.
Short summary of the groups based on insight level and behaviour range. Group 1: some insight, proud of their behaviour, rigid, grandiose. Never call out. Group 2: some insight, shame and anger cycle. May try to change, may slip back. Most difficult to leave due to the cognitive dissonance they cause. Group 3: no insight, angry, sociopathy, more risky, dangerous to call out, no hope for change. Group 4: no insight, not angry, but don't get why people reject them. Emotional famine, don't care, not likely to change.
@purvamandlik4696 OK Group 1 - Aware/apathetic Group 2 - Aware/conscientious Group 3 - Unaware/oppositional Group 4 - Unaware/apathetic Did I get that right?
I imagine, like most spectrums, it's a little more dynamic than that. A spectrum is closer to reality than a binary, but it's still oversimplifying. I.e. the autism "spectrum" and the political "spectrum." Spectrums allow people to continue the good/bad binary, just in a matter of degrees. So, the right wing can say that the left wing is all bad and vice verse, when the right is mostly narcissists and their enablers and the left's politicians calls the national guard on peaceful left wing protesters and continues most of the right wing's policies such as the patriot act, making democratic politicians the kind of narcissists that do performative "good," just so they look good. I.e, AOC doing a shift at a soup kitchen instead of confronting Texas Energy, Bernie Sanders doing his thing with a known race-baiter writing his speaches, Obama calling for hope and change and then filling his cabinet with bankers, and a whole bunch of dems appropriating an african scarf instead of confronting the white supremacy within the police force. In this way, the political "spectrum" actually helps hide the fact that narcissists are always clawing their way to power and obscures the fact that there are policies that both wings of this bird are ignoring for the sake of their campaign donors and lobbyists.
I think they know and that is why they choose to gaslight and lie all the time. Cause if they flat out told you what they know to be true, you would be out the door in less than a minute.
In my own observation of a group 3 and group 4, I'd say those types tend to do lots of projecting - calling other people narcissistic or selfish or lacking of empathy, so they understand those behaviors but totally can't recognize they are the ones doing them.
My aunt is like this. She seems to be group 3, while I am a people pleaser. I'd be doing everything to keep her happy and she'd always say "You never do anything for me, never try to please me." Which of course was making my anxiety and suicidal thoughts skyrocket... till I moved out
Dr. Ramani, In case you somehow don't realize this, you're saving lives with these videos you make. Your knowledge and insight just flow from you, and it's simply amazing that you can be so in touch with this subject. Thank you so much for sharing your gift!
I think they know they are broken, think they are still better than others and that creates crisises in their heads making them dive deeper into narcissism. For my own self interest, I just stay away from them.
There is no fixing them, and even if you could its not your job to do so. I think personally they choose to be the way they are. I'm not fixing to stick around and tolerate abuse at the expense of my health to make them feel they are more than what they actually are.
I called out my narcissistic sadistic father, and from that moment on I was dead to the family. for me it wasn't about saving the relation but about justice and self preservation. Staying in my family would have driven me to suicide. If we keep on turning our heads things will never change.
I´m sorry to hear that... Good that you stood up for yourself, and for all the injustices that have happened, and what is still going on. I hope you are on a safe place now with some loving people around you. What was your role in the narcissistic family dynamic may i ask? Do you also have brothers and sisters? My family has also turned against me after I started confronting my narcissistic father. I have stood up for all the injustices that have happened within our family, and are still happening, but I have not received any support from anyone in the family. The abuse still continues everyday towards my mother... and family members don't do anything about it. Take care of yourself and put yourself first now.
They know they are different, but they are too narcissistic to give themselves a label. The would rather think everyone else is fucked up than openly admit that they themselves are fucked up. They will literally make u think u are crazy. That's how the get through life. As long as their ego is soothed, all is good in the world
My mom: Group 4. 100% I've know she wasnt right all of my life. Cold, manipulative, abusive, out of touch, gaslighting, entitled, grandiose, zero accountability and empathy. Even if you could get her into any therapy by choice there would be no chance she would even try to do anything about her behavior. Needless to say, I haven't had a meaningful relationship with her ever. I've been no contact for the past 15 years. My only regret is that I wish I had done it sooner.
Thank you, now I understand why the label "narcissist" never quite seemed 100% fitting for my mother. A spoiled, sheltered, privileged, yet also emotionally deprived and traumatized, upper class princess, histrionic to boot with a possible side helping of bipolar, both her parents being heavily traumatized from WW2, emotionally inept and as hopelessly stuck in their 19th century ways as was the norm for that generation. I understand why she put me on a pedestal while, at the same time, constantly devaluating me and doing her brutal best to keep me insecure, dependent, and disenfranchised. She could switch gears between furious hysterics and dramatic self-pity at the drop of a hat. My father, who'd been raised like a leashed dog by his alsatian-breeding stepfather, was not only way too weak to reign her in but actually believed that mother must be obeyed, no matter what, end of story. To quote the late, great Terry Pratchett, my parents were so out of their depth that the fish had lights on their heads. They were emotionally crippled, mentally stunted, and stuck in a nightmarish "more of the same" vicious cycle with no way to help themselves. In hindsight, I realize they really did the best they could. Given their intellectual and emotional equipment, it's a miracle they didn't both die in an argument with a traffic sign or a lamp pole. Luckily, their behaviour was so outrageously stupid, irrational, nonsensical and incoherent that, even as a child, I realized that they were the ones not functioning properly, not me. So I guess after decades of battling them and the demons they put into me, I've finally come full circle. Sorry for the rant, I trust you'll recognize it as self-therapy.
Sounds similar in that I also always knew my parents were crazy, not normal, since very early age. Their thought processes were so nutty that there was never no doubt for me about that.
I had a parent like this and even when I directly confronted her she would not accept it. She never did, never apologised. If you are looking for ownership from them or remorse, forget it.
You can approach them with solid evidence for all you like, they will still deny it. It's basically their mantra, "deny deny deny I take it to the grave with me"
I think understanding NPD really helps while you are in the relationship. If you can get out, that’s obviously ideal, but in the interim, it’s important to understand the condition so you aren’t making yourself insane trying to make them understand basic human emotions, normal social behavior or trying to make it work in general. It’s not going to unless you are okay with completely loosing your autonomy.
My ex wife would have occasional moments of clarity where she would realise that her behaviour was abusive and causing problems not only to those around her but to her own life too and the way people viewed her but those moments wouldn't last long she'd soon be back to her regular traits. I've been no contact with her for over 20 years now, I hear she hasn't changed.
No contact is really the only way to go and I hope most people can do it. These narcs are dangerous...it is heartbreaking the harm that they do. I am not contact with my mom and she still scares the hell out of me. The gaslighting alone literally makes me ill.
Brian G Narcissists avoid vulnerability like the plague. I'm guessing she recognized that confessing her true thoughts to you would make her vulnerable. I know my ex viewed vulnerability as weakness. I think they believe others will pounce on them and try to gain power over them (as they themselves would do) if they show any real humanity. That's why they'd rather leave a relationship than open up. It's so pathetic that they see others this way.
A narcissist is like a terrible driver that thinks they're actually an excellent driver. That's because they never care enough to look at the rear-view mirror to see the destruction they've left in their wake. Thanks again and regards.
I believe they know and are proud of it - my sister who is one, danced around a shop singing “I’m a -itch, I’m a -itch” in a happy voice smiling to whoever was there. Unfortunately this included my 2 teenage children who she was meeting for the first time. Needless to say, she was not given any further opportunity to meet them again
In my experience, they have no clue that they’re narcissists. All they know is that everyone else is the problem. They surround themselves with enablers who justify their bad behavior. When someone in their circle finally does realize that their behavior is wrong, they either make excuses for the narcissist, or they call them out on their behavior. This results in narcissistic rage, which can lead to the discard. Once a narcissist loses control of you, beware - that’s when the smear campaign about you starts.
Without suggesting any form of condoning, I do believe, based on experience, that narcissistic people are at war with themselves on a deep hidden level, deeply traumatised, and in pain. It's impossible to live with all that, and, like people who create a 2nd personality within, to escape pain, narcissists create an attitude that gives them the sensation and experience of grandiosity As soon as what's underlying is triggered, all hell breaks lose, for the pain is felt. That's something that needs to be covered up at all costs, even at the cost of abuse of others. They're never happy, the power game is all they have and invest in, plus material gain, often.
They've been told. They scoff. Their fantasy idea of themselves must be preserved and priorities above everything else at all costs. Predictable but exhausting.
Nodding my head through the whole description of group four. I've seen what damage a person of that group can do. Their lack of understanding of what they do wrong is what can get them sympathy and endless new chances because people around them think they should just try harder in explaining things to them. But luckily I've also seen how people who know more about toxic behaviors can come to a point where they stop giving chances.
MY late husband was a group 4. He would stare at me when I called him out, totally stunned that I could have a problem with him, as he was such a great guy, or he would have this smirk as if he thought I was over reacting, emotional and irrational and then one starts to doubt yourself. As I started to withdraw from him, he was constantly trying new things to draw me back but if it worked, it only worked once and then I was clued up and would not fall for it again. It got more extreme until he committed suicide, leaving me a super spiteful letter and probably very sure I would pine and blame myself for the rest of my life. But ti did and do not and just walked away without shedding a tear, sounds heartless but he played this threatening suiced game with all his family, they were not surprised and I refused to feel responsible for his decisions
A good question that I've been asking for a while. It's always being projected back on me and causes me to question my own reality when I KNOW what I've heard, seen, felt, and treatment received. This is an exhausting battle that I've given up trying to figure out, but rather have finally been able to focus on my own healing and what I can control....which is my own actions and reactions.
Anytime you are questioning your own reality as a result of a narcissists words or actions towards you, you are experiencing gaslighting. It is a form of emotional abuse. Good for you for choosing to care for yourself and work on healing.
@kmanderson266 Very true. Thank you for your response. It's truly exhausting. After 5 years of marriage I finally filed for divorce (almost 8 years together).
I've known a few narcissists, some know and some don't, but they all share unacceptable and cruel personality traits. I believe in the spectrum and I like the way you've broken down these 4 groups Dr. Ramini. It really helps to understand narcissists better and to avoid them!
When dealing with narcissism, you should know that it’s not personal. “It isn’t personal” is one of those cliches used to cushion all kinds of bad actions taken by people who need an out for being immoral, but in this case it actually gets near the truth. Narcissists don’t know how to love or be a friend; they can’t afford to spare the energy to learn, because they’re always in a state of high emergency, cataloging potential threats and redoubling their defenses. When they claim to love you, it means nothing. They may even think they mean it, but they don’t understand the concept - they can’t feel it. They never attach to you or anyone else. Other people are paper cut-outs to the narcissist, like those cardboard figures of celebrities you pose next to for a selfie. Narcissist value their own children only as mirrors of themselves. When they destabilize you or attack you, it means nothing. They are stuck in an endless conversation with themselves, in which you are an inanimate object, to be assigned their own faults and used as a surrogate punching bag for their hatred of themselves. When they toss you out, it’s no more meaningful than a junkie tossing away a needle; when they try to reel you back in, it only means that they tired of the new drug and need a hit of the old. None of this is personal. They’re too terrified to have personal relationships, opting instead for extraction of admiration from a subservient partner whose range of action they strictly constrain. This is not personal. None of it. The narcissist does not know who you are - it doesn’t know how to know other people. Like the vampire or the chainsaw-wielding creature in the horror film, it’s from another world, bereft of the concept of human connection. Moreover, People wonder why they end up hurt, seriously hurt, and even killed for their own actions. Cheating is a choice and there’s simply a lot of ignorance in the process.... Thank you so much for helping me out Hackspyhub@gmail. com. Your advice and services helped me so much. You are a lifesaver !!! The information you gave me about my cheating partner when you gave me access to his phone was everything I needed to get,.. thank you very much..
My mother is a narcissist and my mom raised me so her way of parenting was all I knew. The part that is hell is I’ve learned and mirrored her ways and I absolutely hate that part of me. After I realized she was a narcissist I then realized I had to seek help( therapy) I moved away from her and went no contact and thought I was saved. It was then that I saw then that I finally Experienced my own narcissistic symptoms because now I had time to focus on who I was as a person without her narcissist chaos so basically me moving opened up the after math of the abuse. I have to relearn haw to parent my kids the right way. I’m so angry because they are older now( 4 boys ages 16,14,12,5)…..I struggle everyday with this because she taught me how to talk down to my children, degrade them, judge them ex…. Basically all the bad parenting strategists that narcissist use to raise children. I absolutely despise her for this. If anyone reads this, Know that you are not alone. Know that healing will take time. Don’t let them steal anymore precious time from your kids, husband and non narcissistic family members. TAKE YOUR POWER BACK BY BREAKING THIS CURSE AND LEAVE WITHOUT LOOKING BACK!!!!!
@Esther Wow!!!! Thank you so much for your response. Reading this gives me more strength to know you have so many people who have gone through what we went through with narcissistic family members. This issue is more dangerous then people realize. I mean im talking committing suicide. These people will have you thinking of ending your life and unfortunately many have because they just gave up. This support and words of wisdom is so powerful to fellow victims and could save many from giving up. Thank you for giving me your time and for caring. I don't know if you are a mother but if so, HAPPY MOTHERS DAY AND GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR KIND HEART.... THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!
This sounds great that you're breaking the generational curse and cycle of mistreatment. Very non-narcissistic of you to admit that you're having to put effort into overcome some bad habits. Good for you, and your four boys are lucky to have someone fighting to break the mold
I have a similar background...I'm so angry...I feel like my life was taken away from me...I just want to take my kids and run far far away from my whole family...start fresh...clean...leave all this darkness in the past...it was never mine to carry in the first place
@alexisrush91 Thats absolutely right queen. Dont claim it!!! Take yours gems and run and don't look back. I wish you peace, strength and endurance. You got this!!!
My ex was group 3. It’s ridiculous how he didn’t see that his behaviour was wrong. At first I thought we see life differently and he was just raised without basic morals. Only to realise he is narcissistic. No time for self reflection or empathy.
I think I'm group 2. Or at least I want to be. I'm in a 7 year relationship with an empath and last week she said she wanted to end it. She is the one who found the narcissist definition and brought it it me. Initially, I tried to disprove it because its very hard to admit that I am narcissistic. I offered to go to therapy now that my eyes were opened, but im afraid it's too late. I want to thank you Dr. Ramani for this video and the one about narcissistic fatigue. My wife has been complaining for years about being tired and foggy as you described. I finally understand what I was doing to her all this time. I am deeply regretful of my behavior and pray that we can work it out for our kids sake.
Wow. Good on you. Well done for recognising your own behaviour and how it impacts others, this is a truly remarkable breakthrough for a narcissist. I genuinely hope things work out for your family unit and that you get to enjoy the rest of your life (in particular) being a better person as a result of your epiphany.
My dad does. He told me pointblank I'm NPD..... he's a MD with ASD...... and vulnerable NPD so bad that he denied reality constantly and CAN'T listen to others..... he told me as a last chance to relate to me, like as an excuse. And then he pushed me out of his house in an unexplainable rage and never spoke to me again. I spent my whole life being perfectly dutiful. 🤷♂️. Im guessing his brain knew adult-me was a threat to his fantasy life and moved on crying to my step-mom. Narcs are soooo weid and dangerous.
My older sister checks off every box in how a narcissist is defined. She always talking about other people being narcissists! And I’m thinking, ‘does she have a clue?’ Obviously not. She’s perfect in her own mind, and incapable of any negative traits.
I call Narcs out all the time. It’s healing and therapeutic. It also stops the Narc with their antagonistic, abusive and destructive behaviour. They won’t want to feel shame, and humiliation. So it stops the Narc behaviour in my presence. Whether they stop it altogether is another matter. But I know when they are dealing with me, they don’t care to showcase those traits that I have called them out on. Because I will beat their ego to a pulp and they will not have a leg to stand on once I am done with them.
@Hello-ur8zx You expose their vulnerabilities and weaknesses. It triggers shame and humiliation. It causes a lot of trauma for them, so they stop their behaviour so they don't get called out like that again. For example: - Narcs like to talk over people (you call them out as having low EQ for doing that because they can't listen to another POV). You tell them that they dominate the conversation rather than understand other perspectives. They feel humiliated because you made a valid point. Narcs like to be controlling. You call them out as being controlling, living in fear, always needing to control everything in their surrounding. You say they operate in fear-based consciousness. Fear-driven. Fraidy-cats. Tell them, you're not going to be controlled by their low EQ behaviours. Narcs lack self-awareness. They are good at reading other people to manipulate, but they have zero self-awareness. So you call out that too, and highlight all their weakness and vulnerabilities because they are so lacking in self-awareness. Trust me, you hammer them with these points, they will be afraid to have any type of confrontations with you.
I've taken that approach, and it can go scary, some of these people are dangerous. I still feel that it is better to point out in plain terms why you set a boundary or are calling the behaviour out for exactly what it is. I find it difficult to have people play in my face and walk away without fighting for justice, honesty and accountability. Especially when in a situation where they are clearly aware that they are attempting to humiliate and dominate. But if they are charismatic, have a group of flying monkeys around them or simply get called out in front of other people who are like them and take offense themselves, it can result in them manipulating and destroying careers, friend groups and other opportunities as they take up a vendetta, empowered by others who secretly aren't wishing the best for you. (I'm thinking toxic workplaces, families and friends who prefer to not acknowledge their friends behaviour towards others as long as its not aimed not at them - like pack hierarchy). Then the partners who turn violent too. Do you have any tips, sentences, or responses that you have found can be delivered indicating the boundary without escalating the situation or causing dangerous retaliation. I feel this is where people get caught out and further hurt, because we get to a point of exhaustion repeating patterns whilst we question if they are good people, and finally when we can name their behaviour for what it is, it comes out with ineffective delivery, or triggers rage and pain in them which they use to project the shame and guilt back on us.
I was originally going to say ‘no they don’t know and can’t admit it cuz that would mean there’s something wrong with them”. After watching this I see that there’s so much more to it! Thank you
Saved this one! What a great resource! It’s hard to believe and admit that your loved one is a narcissist when they do not present as a flaming, mean, malignant, grandiose narcissist. I am divorcing my “group 4” covert /vulnerable narcissist as I write this. It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done. I know the narcissism has its origins in attachment trauma and childhood neglect. I am a counselor-In-training myself. I have a lot of compassion and understanding for my husband. And, he can’t or won’t see that there is anything wrong with his behavior so it never changes. The back and forth from seemingly kind and self aware to entitled and blaming is exhausting. It is toxic and it is abusive-whether he is aware of what he is doing or not. After trying radical acceptance and managing my expectations for 2 years I’ve discovered the emotional, mental and spiritual energy that requires is more than I am willing to spend. I’m grieving and I’m moving on. Thank you Dr. R. 💕 Your books, videos and webinars have been catalytic in my recovery and I’m so very grateful that you put out so much content for free!
Wishing you all the best. I am am planning my path to freedom. My son is 16 and the decision to leave is so difficult to act upon. I am in trauma therapy and have regained my body and soul. Still working on getting hold of my confidence and sense of self. I was nearly eaten alive in this marriage.
@lizp5449 thanks. I filed for divorce on Friday. Good Friday, as it turns out. I didn’t plan it that way but as a person of faith it turns out to be a very meaningful “accident.” 💕
@kmanderson266 I so miss my our Christian Friends/ Who we used to socialize with regularly! We only see his Flying monkeys now.. I have little in common with them…and I don’t give them personal information….! My Narc/ Has turned his Back on God about 5 years ago… ! Obviously COVID also had a big impact on this.. I pray you are happy in your Future! Jenny 🙏🏻💕🌸
My father is a true narcissist. If I tell him I he did wrong, he makes me the problem, or says I'm sensitive, or he tells me with sarcasm that it is good I have somebody to blame.
I was married to a Group 1 narcissist and finally “escaped” after 29 years! It was a hugely disfunctional marriage! I didn’t even know what narcissism was; I just used to tell friends he was a JOY SUCKER!
I think they do. They know when to turn it on or off. Like at work vs at home in private. In fact I asked him if he felt bad about stuff he's done. He absolutely does not. He said because its not his fault he is who he is. That right there tells me a. He knows and b. He does not give a hoot. He thinks he has a free get out of jail card!!!
The answer is yes. Because I'm a recovering narcissist. What helps me with my recovery is humility considering the possibility that I could be wrong about something.
Well done and good for you. I can respect a person that realises the error of their ways and tries to do something about it. I feel like you guys in this group maybe didn't say or do those certain horrible things on purpose? Like you just didn't realise what you were causing. I feel like you still maybe had an element of empathy and awareness and shame- that's why you were able to recognise your behaviour and know that it's wrong? Am I right, or am I far off? Lol.
I thought I might be in the second category as well, but I worry I may have been closer to the third category with how ignorant I was to the problems and pain I caused. I hope you're doing better, and I hope all of us narcissists who realize can continue to do better.
I am deeply grateful you made this video. I was so confused about my ex, and I now realize it's because he's in category four. I can feel the confusion and self-doubt slowly melting away and my confidence coming back.
My 23 year old son has told me several times he thinks he is a narcissist & all he cares about is being right. He gaslights me & I feel like I have to walk on eggshells around him. We haven’t spoken in a few weeks. It’s very sad, because all I’ve ever wanted was to have a positive relationship with my son.
Hi ma’am. If I might recommend “how does someone become a narssisct by Dr. Ramini. It helped me both understand my own tendencies and relate to my mother in a more nuanced way.
You have lots and lots of company Gal. My life has been entangled with them (family) and what I have seen is karma pays them back repeatedly and the final pay back will be in their judgement. They are literally demonic but most act holy and use this ruse to further control and manipulate employing the name of the Father.
My ex finally admitted that he would not get counseling, because he would just lie to one, manipulate, and fool them. Therapy is not effective if it is not genuine. They Will use it to learn new tricks, though, code words, buzz words, and tactics, and they will use the fact that they are in therapy to manipulate you.
![Digital Circus Ep 9 Finale [TRAILER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AjFk1cY265I/mqdefault.jpg)
![SEMATARY - RAGING WOLF [OFFICIAL VIDEO]](/img/1.gif)
I think they know they are being cruel to someone, but they truly believe the person deserves it
❤thank u for your comment. The thing is my malignant husband insists he gets groceries, and comes back home with half of what’s on the list, and says I do not Deserve it. This goes on and on and makes me physically sick 😢 One example of his cruelty. I’m 😅 happy now cuz I see who he is and working on recovery and breaking free. I’m so grateful for Dr Ramani 🎉🎉🎉
Right
💯%
👌
They know they are being cruel because my ex boyfriend had moments where he acknowledged what he was doing, but it took a lot of talking to him and being logical. At other times it didn't matter what I said or did he doubled down in his narcissism and that was that.
Seasoned divorce e lawyer here. I am so happy that modern technology exists so people like Dr. Ramani have a platform to explain narcissistic personality disorder. Get educated. Vet very carefully. Do NOT marry or get into a long term relationship with a narcissist. Stay safe out there!
Yes her info is very knowledgeable, the abuse I went through was inberabl, I self-esteem is much better, take care 🙂
I attract nasty narcs like a magnet! N not the repellent ones either! :(
@TinaLouise73 seems like I do too, so now I have a dog instead.
Wish my poor mother knew this 60 years ago! Too late now🤷🏾♀️
I'm no fool and I wasn't when I met my covert narcissist wife. It took years for the act to slip and then it completely fell away.
They must know , they work so hard to hide their true nature when they first meet you.
Great point ☝️
Absolutely
They might know they are hiding their true nature. But I wonder if they know their true nature is narcissistic trait. They could be thinking their true nature isn’t socially acceptable but it does good for themselves and the world. They are life-long experts in manipulation. Who knows they might manipulate their own perception to justify their behavior above all.
Exactly!!!!!!
Great Observation!
My narcissistic mother recently discovered this channel, and now sees narcissists everywhere, except in the mirror
Woops :(
😂 😂 😂 😂
😂👌
The scary thing is, i think I might have fallen into this category. Learned so much lately and I don't like what I see around me or of myself...... Change is hard but is sometimes needed
@bundydryandlime It's just a maybe.
As far as I know, a person has to go through a lot of tests with a psychiatrist to be marked in that category. Every person in the world is a bit narcissistic. Even empaths. It is not the same as NPD.
This part: "We live in a world where narcissism is incentivized and rewarded..."
Preach!
Yes they do and they even have their “Squads” of flying monkeys that help destroy you !
@learningenglishthroughtran8540 "Preach!" just means "I agree, keep talking this way!" Kind of like shouting, "Amen!" at a church sermon.
This is very true . Especially when you see all the advertisements they make with Adults speaking with children's voices . Such as the pizza and gummy commercials . Their trying to normalize Narcissism behavior .
It's bad enough that we have adult children in places of power and authority with out honor or integrity showing only self-entitlement .
@cc1k435 Agreed. "Preach!" is an American saying, so it makes as much sense to non-Americans as "Oath" means to non-Australians.
So sad.
“Me? A narcissist? I’m way too perfect and wonderful to be anything like that!”
That's how they think
Exactly what my wife says: "I don't need to change".
So you're obsessed with THAT now ?
😂😂😂😂
Yes
I am positive they feel smarter and more superior than the rest of us!
Oh, yes! My ex narc actually said he didn't respect me, felt I was beneath him and all the medical intervention I did to save his life during two live threatening illnesses, he said he had no respect for me because he was entitled to this care.
Perhaps you are the narcissist without realizing it? Too many people point the blame thrower onto the outside world, when more often than not the world is a reflection of our own making.
Rorri Maesu says useaMirroR
I remember once having an epiphany that my mother MUST know that her behavior is wrong because of the way she hides/misrepresents it around other people. If they didn't know it was wrong, they would behave the same way around everyone.
Good point.
🎯 Thank you!
Wow! A great example of something which becomes obvious after someone points it out, yet somehow might not have been noticed even though it was right in front of you. Thank you, Privacy Freedom.
@stevenk-brooks6852 I'm glad that was helpful!
That paired well with my discovery that my secrecy to protect the abusive people in my life was hamstringing my getting acceptance and health. So what if they are upset that I’ve said true things? They care more about that than the damage done to me…it’s my story to tell as much as anyone else’s.
Narcissists do not change their behavior... they change their victims.
My sib is a narcissist and she’s a therapist!
Profound🙏
Exactly.
💯
@cynthiaestrada8318i mean a lot of bullies become nurses.
"Do narcissists know they are narcissists?"
They don't use that term as a rule, they simply know they're the only one who knows anything and they're always RIGHT!
You are absolutely right.
Lol…damnit
Yep, u got that right.
The one in my life was very incensed when I mentioned that he was obviously a narcissist (frankly a covert narcissist)! Apparently he doesn't like that honest description-maybe even really doesn't realize that it fits perfectly!
@artistelaine1061 The Coverts are the WORST in my experience. The overt ones are so obvious it's easy to spot and avoid them. The covert ones take awhile to detect and by the time you catch on, they've already begun to abuse you.
Do they know it? Yes. Will they admit it? Never.
No they don't know it because they think they are perfect. "You" are the one that is selfish. This disorder comes so naturally they truly believe they don't have a problem.
Actully, I had someone straight upp tell me he is a Narcisist.
I can't tell why he told me, or why he felt like he had to tell me, but it still wierds me out a bit even today. He was working in the same place as me, in a different branch.
@WendyTaggart-d9kI asked my highly narcissistic father the other day, if he considered himself to be a narcissist. Innocent like a little lamb he would look at me and said: "Yes I am." Disgusting.
@WendyTaggart-d9kSome of them know they are narcissists but think that it's a good thing.
In fact some of them do admit it.
Narcs know when to turn it on and when to turn it off.
That's right...but are they aware of it? Does it happen unconsciously and instinctively, or do they switch masks the moment the situation spontaneously changes?
You can hear it when they initiate phone calls.....even if you are in the same room with them.....they do not care, are least some do not.
Yes, that part is defintely true. Adept and thrive.
They are like puppets to dark beings.
I believe they are aware of it, they don’t care that they are. It’s a power play, I believe it begins when they are young. They learn to fine tune as the years go by. By the time they are adults, they know how, where and when to use it and to whom!
I believe they know that their behavior is wrong, which is why most of them preach about privacy and how “what happens in the home stays in the home”, because they don’t want people to know their tricks or for others to point out the abuse and support us to leave and thus they lose their supply. So regardless if they know they’re a narcissist or not, they do know their behavior is self-serving regardless of how it affects others and don’t care.
Agree
Not that simple. They may know their behavior is self-serving regardless of how it affects others and don’t care. And they may not think there is anything wrong with that at all. Think of it like this. For the longest time in human history some people kept other people as slaves. They knew they were exploiting those slaves, they knew those slaves suffered physically and emotionally. And the slave owners were perfectly OK with that, they even saw it as their (sometimes God-given) right to own other people. Even non-slave owners thought slavery was peachy-keen. This only changed when there was a huge global shift in morality after enough people realized the immorality of slave ownership and laws against it were enacted. In fact if those laws did not exist, there are still plenty of people around today who would be perfectly OK owning slaves. Narcissist need hard boundries, like laws and other measures, to fence in their toxic behaviors exactly because they DON'T see exploiting others as wrong.
@brimstone33 I agree. What I’m saying is just because they personally don’t feel like it’s wrong they know others will think so and thus try to isolate and keep their supply quiet so that others don’t learn the truth of the situation and teach their supply that they’re being manipulated and abused, in turn risking the supply from leaving and they lose their supply.
They do not change.
This was my dads mantra after he abandoned us and left the country. He knew my mom was abusing me physically, emotionally, and more. He eventually came back due to pressure from his family but he aggressively gaslights us.
I once asked one of those Group 4 people: "Would you rather be always right or would you rather have friends?" They answered angrily: "I want to have friends who understand that I'm right!" I realised that this relationship had no future.
Wow...lol holy crap
Asked my narcissist ex, "would you rather be right or happy?" He said, "I'd rather be happily right."
It’s kinda mind blowing to me that anyone can assume they are always right. We all have issues that limit us in different ways.
Also, I feel like being “right” is often subjective anyway. Many people have different views on many aspects. Who is to say who is really “right”? I think on very few aspects can people definitely agree something is “right” or “wrong.” Otherwise, it’s simply just their view.
The response I received...was being right
Huh, my ex asked me this one once. The right or happy varient. I told her I don't know how to be happy. I wonder if she was testing to see if I was a narcissist?
In my opinion, narcissists cannot know they're narcissists. To know they're narcissists takes self-reflection ... in which they have none.
That's a misconception. Many people with npd obsess over all kinds of possible deficits but their illness and their flip following from vulnerable to grandiose distorts their ability to see it clearly and accept it, among many other realities.
True.
BUT THEY DO KNOW SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THEM THOUGH. ❤😮
I think you're right. I think they work very hard not to admit to themselves that they have any real feelings that way. If they do know they are terrified to let anyone know, especially themselves!
Some narcissists know they just don’t care but yeah most are unaware.
The best advice I ever got was "if someone tells you they are toxic or hurt people, believe them". These people will often tell you what others have said about them, hoping you will disagree. Pay close attention, their past partners probably knew more than you do now.
I asked my ex what her ex-husband would likely say about her. She answered that he would say that she's an angry gold-digging bitch.
In fairness to her I didn't see the gold digging (I didn't let things get that far) but the anger, wow, never seen anything like it in my life. It's weird that she was actually quite candid about certain things that didn't exactly paint her in the best light (for example that all her friends told her that she should never have kids, and when she did get pregnant that she should have an abortion)... I wonder whether she felt compelled to self-disclose somehow, for reasons that were opaque even to her. Once I'd worked out she likely had a cluster B personality disorder a lot of what she'd told me made a lot more sense. I would have thought that she would do everything to avoid giving herself away but looking back she definitely gave me clues, almost from day one. Weird.
"I fuck everything up"
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
That is so true narcissistic people drop hints very early to test how far they can push or what others will tolerate in their search for victims - it might be done in a comical away like laughing while admitting they are selfish
@grayhalf1854 interesting, i had similar and i assume it is because their position of being right means they cannot see anything wrong with their behaviours and as they have zero concern in reality for your feelings, they have no reason not to tell you.
I noticed that a narc that my friend has to deal with tells him “I don’t care” quiet often. And it’s when he states his feelings or how exhausted he is before she wants him to do one more chore. I said, wow, she’s actually honest here, she doesn’t just care about how you are feeling, your health, etc And it’s true, he had a healthy crisis and she blamed him for ruining the holidays, didn’t do one caring thing, actually ended up leaving him to enjoy her holidays as planned, except now he wasn’t available for extra chores as per usual. And upon her return, she just went back to giving him tasks to do, not a single word about how he is doing and if he needs anything, not a single offer of maybe you need a day off to recover more? Nope, they are such users and they tell you as much of you pay attention.
If they do or they don't know they are narcissists, they know exactly what they do to others!
I agree
They don't care at all about hurting others or the affect of what their words and obnoxious behavior does to others.
I think mine knew what she was doing but in her mind that's what everyone does so it makes it okay for her to do unto others before they do unto her. I hope this might help in your healing. It's been a hard and confusing road for me.
Exactly, which is why we are always on our guard around them.
I disagree. Prior to realizing I was narcissistic, I had no idea the effect I had on other people. I was so self absorbed I would manipulate to get my way. I had no empathy and never even thought about what I was saying and how it affected people. I only thought about myself and how I felt and if I got what I wanted. I know now that I have done some serious damage and I have such great remorse for it. I still slip into the rage and embarrassment cycle that Dr. Ramani spoke of, but I have grown and for that I am thankful.
Most narcissists just think they are superior in one way or another.
Superior in ALL ways!
I was with someone who was in group 3 and I was the only one who ever held him accountable for anything but after a while it was easier to look the other way rather than deal with his wrath. When we finally went to couples therapy he accused the therapist of taking my side and after a while stopped going. I continued to go to therapy to help me deal with him and one day he thanked me to continue going to therapy because he said I really needed it. He had no idea why I was still going. In the end when I called him out on something he did, he stormed out of my life. A week later begged me to take him back but I really couldn’t allow it. It’s the best thing that happened to me.
I was with a group 2 and when I brought up therapy he would get so furious. He said there was nothing therapy could improve for him because he didn't think it worked. He said therapy was for people who actually needed it and he can work out his problems on his own.
I have personally been I therapy for many years and he would also say to me "I know you need to have your therapy appointments" and things like that. Lol like kind of in a way saying I had issues I needed help with and that was something that was below him. It's so toxic.
Therapy is a beautiful thing and narcissistic people seem to have such a problem with it. Probably the not wanting to be held responsible for their ways has something big to do with that.
I was with a group 3 too. Tried therapy 2 different times, both times he just lied to the therapist and made me look crazy, unstable and controlling. He would never admit to anything, sensitive narc. Everyone else was always the AH. I doubt he would ever do self reflection - living with him was very much like living with a young spoiled teenager.
he he he he, so many girls dont know narcissist. There are more female narcissist than a male narcissist.
Not reacting to their gaslighting is for the best .Then they realise you don't get affected
@em p My mother says exactly the same thing about her doing it on her own. I tried demystifying therapy saying that you might get an idea about the situation from the therapist that you wouldn't even think of (because you're stuck in your self righteous patterns, but I didn't say that part). She got mad saying she didn't need people's ideas. If she was going to get a new idea it would be from god putting it in there. She's even threatened by someone having an idea. Her self identity is so fragile. I understand it, growing up with her mother, but come on. She's gotten so self righteous and religious lately it's barely possible to have a conversation about the weather.
They are more concerned about what they want than what others want or need.
Yep I got 0 I wanted n ruined my body so I would not be pretty. Sick fucks. Im still pretty just fat lol. There new supply is gross n trash .
Exactly.
I’ve had some strong narcissistic tendencies in my life that has changed over the years. Going from the grandiose overt narcissist to slipping into depression and going the covert route. It was a long process over around a decade. The whole time I saw myself as the “good guy” in every scenario. Like I always felt that my opinion was the final authority and I took it as a threat when somebody’s opinion differed.
It’s a terrible feeling realizing all of the pain you caused other people when reality hits you. I can’t undo my actions and words from the past, I just try to do better every day.
So yeah I belong to group 2. And I thank God above for allowing me to sober up a little mentally.
This is my wife. Can you please let me know if you changed enough to consider yourself healthy enough to have a healthy relationship? I’m strongly considering divorce. I can’t do this anymore it’s been 10 years.
@jasoncheshire6153People are variable. That guy’s experience likely won’t be the same as your wife
How did you find out that you had a problem? The person in my life seems not to know that there is something very wrong.
@jasoncheshire6153I’m sorry to hear that. I’m not sure if I’ll ever be 100% normal compared to a healthy person. I just gave my life up one day to the lord Jesus Christ and he saved me. I didn’t become perfect, but almost instantly I could recognize when I was being a jerk,, subtly or openly. Still do. I pray that you find peace with your wife and that y’all can work it out.
@Leti.17 ironically I’d been watching surviving narcissisms channel and dr ramani’s as well. I was watching them to justify my unwarranted negative feelings about someone else lol. I was also on a spiritual journey which eventually led to me giving my life to the Lord Jesus Christ. He opened my eyes to a lot of what I truly was, and it didn’t feel good. I’ve been leaning on him for healing from my own self inflicted damage, and it’s a battle some days but it’s definitely much better than the past life I was living.
And if they are older, they will never change.
My mom's 89 and still going strong.
They get worse, my husband got worse until his death.
@LeslieSoyster She is probably soon deceased.
I was an only child surrounded by adult narcissists, histrionics, and enablers. I see now how much my self-trust and decision-making abilities were affected by their abuse. Today I get dismissed or berated for calling them out, but I know my feelings are valid and true. It's a breath of fresh air to hear Dr. Ramani articulate so many things that were weird when I grew up.
Good for you!
Shout out, another only child here who went thru it with only monsters about - so glad you made it, these chans are so deeply edifying. It makes it hard to protect oneself, because I was not allowed to. Just realized that I could have used this advice and wisdom 30 years ago.
Same here. It left me insecure for life and the worst to hear is when someone nastily says “you are just like them!” My biggest fear is to be like them. I have lots of genuine empathy, but life presents you with lots of challenges and sometimes I overreact, true. However, I find it really painful when relative in anger says ‘you are just like your father!’ So, the society or family makes the recovery impossible; any moment in behavior that they don’t like, they would easily dismiss by you are just like the narcissist so and so…Even when the fault is on their side. I find it easier to withdraw into my work.
@solobano570 This is too accurate! Toxic families almost want you to turn out crappy so they can blame you for their issues. Work is appealing because people have to act right and treat you professionally. As I type this, I'm getting ready for my commute super early so I can get out of here. I moved back to my childhood home to help my widowed stepmom, and my histrionic mom in the next town over -- but now it's all become so clear. The perfectionism, enabling, bullying, etc. Looking forward to work, and getting away from the toxicity. Insecurity can be healed with nutrition, rest, and caring for your physical body. If you wouldn't put a child in the line of fire with those people, then don't be around them either. You don't have to associate with toxic "family."
@Lacy Holmes, Yes they want you to turn out crappy. They need a scapegoat to fortify their interiority. Usually they are obsessed with your life , what you do for a living and what your home LOOKS like on Google Earth. MNPD only want compliance , admiration, and servitude. They hate to be uncomfortable. Their betrayal to you , about you, is part of their game and set up for you to do what they did to you. They have no humanity or accountability .But they sure feel their own pain. Aww. . .
"Don't you ever accuse me of gaslighting!!!" Then don't do it.
The narcs I’ve encountered seem to regard the approach as just “taking care of business”. If they get what they want; the end justifies the means. If they fail; well…..it’s your fault.
This!!
LOL! Yeah, with my ex, I never would have found such a wonderful house, if it wasn't for her and her family, but whenever anything would go wrong or need repair with the house, it was all my fault and she told me not to buy that house. If anything ever went wrong, it was my fault, even if I did whatever she said or suggested, and especially if I didn't. Of course, she told me I was the manipulative one. How dare I try to suggest she treat me right now and then?
Well said!
Narcs?? Squealers??
Do they know isn’t the question.
Do they care? That’s the question.
And they don’t care. Since they don’t care, what they know never comes into play.
No they don't care, unfortunately
They feel quite entitled to talk down to people or treat them less than dirt sporadically. After a while, you just GET IT, and move on from the their treatment
Some care that they are hurting others but are incapable to be different.
They probably do care but their illness distorts their lens. Step away if you're being hurt by all means but having the belief they don't care is likely inaccurate and causes everyone more pain. They are sick. They need help and compassion, sometimes they are not willing to help themselves and that's sad. But taking it personally is akin to being upset when a two year old smacks you. They are stuck in a developmentally delayed state. They are probably not all treatable and I am not advocating putting yourself In harms way, however we need to see it for what it is, a sickness. Holding on to the pain as if they could have treated you better or that they acted in malice only adds to the pain and trauma to everyone.
That’s so true . My ex told me he doesn’t care about truth or honesty and that really clicked well
If i told the narcissist in my life that they were a narcissist... they would immediately deny it and say "well youre ______" 😂
Had it too with my husband in just agreed " yes maybe!" Something a niarcissist never would say 😅 but after a Lot experience with m narcisstic Cousin IT could BE that i have some toxic Stuff learned to survive. she got tested many years Later and she did Not know she was but she was Happy to know this at the Moment we talked the Last Time ever. It was No problematic Last Talk Just a freedom call to both of US and wishes the best to each other to get better.
No doh.. if I told you that you were _________. You'd deny it too. Human nature.
They might know, but they will never admit to it…in my experience they deflect it onto whoever is telling them they are narcissistic.
Some of them have no problem admitting it at all
Absolute facts. They’ll deny deny deny!
@gregorsamsa1364im a sociopathic narc and dont care at all
My Narcs husband for over 30 years was clueless to his disjunction! I’m out running for my life. He told me that no one can stop him! Get house. I left my home, but guess what friends, IT SAVED MY LIFE! I’m out at 60 and will start all over, I’m happy, I’m joyful and able to worship my God the way I’m supposed to. I’m soo excited about my new love of my journey and the future of my business. YEAH Run for your life, I DID! There life after this relationship! I’m in therapy I hike, I travel I love people, I’m living for the first time in a very very long time. I would shrink so he’s comfortable, I was an enabler! Stepping on me all the way! Shame on me! Life is a beautiful journey and I’m all for it.
I walked away from my only sibling over 20 years ago after our father died. The true narcissistic sociopath came shining through. The sneaky crap and gas lighting was breathtaking. She is responsible for infants and toddlers at an early head start. Can't imagine.
Fear of exposure and playing victim is proof they know there is something to cover up.
Yep, when I got into a texting fight with a narcissist, I literally made bullet points of all the really nasty behavior on their part. They had no come back because I’ve never treated them badly. Their response was the victimization talk about how I had made them feel bad. That seems to be the pattern with our Narcissists-- Put other people down, being nasty, but then when you get called out for it, start crying about how you’re just trying to “help” the other person, or you’ve made me feel bad.
absolutely
I called the police when my Narc threw an aluminium whiteboard at me. While they were on their way she said "You've made it worse for yourself by calling the police." I have it secretly recorded, but she will 100% deny saying it. When the police placed a restraining order on her, she wrote on the Order "Let this be a reminder of how much hurt you've caused."
These people are well aware of their abusive behaviour, it just benefits them to play victim. For a long time I wondered if she truly had that little self awareness, but the the saddest thing is is that they DO know what they're doing. They just don't care. When I discovered that the abuse was deliberate, it just shook me that someone could be so heinous on purpose.
@latsnojokelee6434When I called out my narc brother he looked so shocked he actually paused and stopped talking for a second (FOR ONCE!) and after that he just screamed and yapped insults like a 5 year old. The same way he bullied me my whole life, except he’s like 26 years old now 🤦🏻♀️it’s crazy how time goes by yet a narc doesn’t mature emotionally at all. They basically act like Disney villains, so shameful and childish.
Yes. And being a narcissist is part of their insecurity/shame. To point out they’re a narcissist is like shining a light on every insecurity they have! Be prepared if you do call ‘em out
If they know and don’t give a damn we gonna call them out
Living with narcissist is like living in the Twilight Zone.
😂 spot on! 🤦🏾♀️
😂
My sibling is a narcissist and she’s a therapist.
It’s exactly like “The Truman Show”. Living in their world is not real.
I Like this movy
Narcissist or Not...I do Not let Anyone that is abusive, toxic, manipulating, negative, dark, callous, in my space, or my Life!.. There are so many of these wicked, dark people among us...I am an empath, somewhat introverted, peaceful...and spiritual not religious!...I meditate, pray, exercise moderately, eat a flexible vegetarian way of eating...maintain good mental, physical, emotional health... after my divorce years ago, I made the conscious decision to not marry again!...Having great, married, hardworking, grown children..I enjoy living a single, healthy, debt free, spiritual, simple, peaceful Life!
its so much better to be solitary and just have a few trusted friends
Strong lady well done
There's nothing like it !!!
They think everyone else is the problem
I once went in a date with a guy who told me his wife’s therapist said he was a narcissist. His attitude in saying it was , “Can you believe it - how crazy is that? What, me?” I did not go out with him again!!
Deborah Lindsay,You are beautiful,You don't need a narcissist in your life.....
smart move!
Good girl
Haha, some people never talk about what they themselves did in critical manner in therapy
It sounds like you dodged a bullet there. Good for you!
My now ex used to say "Im just telling the truth", when it was entirely something he conjured up in his mind to fit his narrative.
Once you are away from the narcissist for some time, you see very clearly many of the manipulations and gaslighting that had previously made you question yourself.
Thank you, Dr. Ramani! I still say you are a treasure!
Sounds like my ex, who I believe was a type 3.
@RevTox which one is type 3?
My mother would say the exact same thing
Thank you, Random Sasquatch 👍👍
Yeah they're just soooo concerned with The Truth...unless it's something about their feelings, or why they did what they did, or why they're attacking someone in the first place.
I have met a lot of narcists in my life and most do not know they are narcissists.
Given how they manipulate. They know for sure.
The more I learn about narcissism the better I can protect myself against it, thank you very much👍👍
I agree. Chances are you will know when you run across another narc.
Yes, they know exactly what they’re doing.
they are evil.
I like that you broke it down into groups because you often hear that narcissism is a spectrum and by making these categories you defined the points on that spectrum. Some sort of graph or chart would really put this into visual perspective. The better you know who and what you're dealing with the easier its to prepare yourself, but still these relationships will never truly be easy.
So right! I need a visual too. Maybe descriptive names to these groups would also help.
Short summary of the groups based on insight level and behaviour range.
Group 1: some insight, proud of their behaviour, rigid, grandiose. Never call out.
Group 2: some insight, shame and anger cycle. May try to change, may slip back. Most difficult to leave due to the cognitive dissonance they cause.
Group 3: no insight, angry, sociopathy, more risky, dangerous to call out, no hope for change.
Group 4: no insight, not angry, but don't get why people reject them. Emotional famine, don't care, not likely to change.
@purvamandlik4696 OK
Group 1 - Aware/apathetic
Group 2 - Aware/conscientious
Group 3 - Unaware/oppositional
Group 4 - Unaware/apathetic
Did I get that right?
I imagine, like most spectrums, it's a little more dynamic than that. A spectrum is closer to reality than a binary, but it's still oversimplifying. I.e. the autism "spectrum" and the political "spectrum."
Spectrums allow people to continue the good/bad binary, just in a matter of degrees. So, the right wing can say that the left wing is all bad and vice verse, when the right is mostly narcissists and their enablers and the left's politicians calls the national guard on peaceful left wing protesters and continues most of the right wing's policies such as the patriot act, making democratic politicians the kind of narcissists that do performative "good," just so they look good.
I.e, AOC doing a shift at a soup kitchen instead of confronting Texas Energy, Bernie Sanders doing his thing with a known race-baiter writing his speaches, Obama calling for hope and change and then filling his cabinet with bankers, and a whole bunch of dems appropriating an african scarf instead of confronting the white supremacy within the police force.
In this way, the political "spectrum" actually helps hide the fact that narcissists are always clawing their way to power and obscures the fact that there are policies that both wings of this bird are ignoring for the sake of their campaign donors and lobbyists.
So agree! I am always watching out..it’s fight or flight 24/7….
I think they know and that is why they choose to gaslight and lie all the time. Cause if they flat out told you what they know to be true, you would be out the door in less than a minute.
They don’t know that there is anything wrong with them!
In my own observation of a group 3 and group 4, I'd say those types tend to do lots of projecting - calling other people narcissistic or selfish or lacking of empathy, so they understand those behaviors but totally can't recognize they are the ones doing them.
My aunt is like this. She seems to be group 3, while I am a people pleaser. I'd be doing everything to keep her happy and she'd always say "You never do anything for me, never try to please me."
Which of course was making my anxiety and suicidal thoughts skyrocket... till I moved out
I see that too
Raised by two of them and pretty sure neither one cared.
Narcissists have zero self-awareness.
Dr. Ramani, In case you somehow don't realize this, you're saving lives with these videos you make. Your knowledge and insight just flow from you, and it's simply amazing that you can be so in touch with this subject. Thank you so much for sharing your gift!
I enthusiastically second this!!
I think they know they are broken, think they are still better than others and that creates crisises in their heads making them dive deeper into narcissism.
For my own self interest, I just stay away from them.
I can agree with that too
Smart
There is no fixing them, and even if you could its not your job to do so. I think personally they choose to be the way they are. I'm not fixing to stick around and tolerate abuse at the expense of my health to make them feel they are more than what they actually are.
Hi Dr Ramani,. YES, they know they are narcissists. I totally believe that!
I called out my narcissistic sadistic father, and from that moment on I was dead to the family. for me it wasn't about saving the relation but about justice and self preservation. Staying in my family would have driven me to suicide. If we keep on turning our heads things will never change.
7 suicides in my narcissistic family of origin. Thankful for my self preservation instincts.
I´m sorry to hear that... Good that you stood up for yourself, and for all the injustices that have happened, and what is still going on. I hope you are on a safe place now with some loving people around you.
What was your role in the narcissistic family dynamic may i ask? Do you also have brothers and sisters?
My family has also turned against me after I started confronting my narcissistic father.
I have stood up for all the injustices that have happened within our family, and are still happening, but I have not received any support from anyone in the family. The abuse still continues everyday towards my mother... and family members don't do anything about it.
Take care of yourself and put yourself first now.
Same.
How do wvoid want around tu all time
Kudos to you for standing your ground. Shame on the others who turned the other cheek 🫂
They know they are different, but they are too narcissistic to give themselves a label. The would rather think everyone else is fucked up than openly admit that they themselves are fucked up. They will literally make u think u are crazy. That's how the get through life. As long as their ego is soothed, all is good in the world
My mom: Group 4. 100%
I've know she wasnt right all of my life.
Cold, manipulative, abusive, out of touch, gaslighting, entitled, grandiose, zero accountability and empathy.
Even if you could get her into any therapy by choice there would be no chance she would even try to do anything about her behavior.
Needless to say, I haven't had a meaningful relationship with her ever.
I've been no contact for the past 15 years.
My only regret is that I wish I had done it sooner.
Thank you, now I understand why the label "narcissist" never quite seemed 100% fitting for my mother. A spoiled, sheltered, privileged, yet also emotionally deprived and traumatized, upper class princess, histrionic to boot with a possible side helping of bipolar, both her parents being heavily traumatized from WW2, emotionally inept and as hopelessly stuck in their 19th century ways as was the norm for that generation. I understand why she put me on a pedestal while, at the same time, constantly devaluating me and doing her brutal best to keep me insecure, dependent, and disenfranchised. She could switch gears between furious hysterics and dramatic self-pity at the drop of a hat. My father, who'd been raised like a leashed dog by his alsatian-breeding stepfather, was not only way too weak to reign her in but actually believed that mother must be obeyed, no matter what, end of story.
To quote the late, great Terry Pratchett, my parents were so out of their depth that the fish had lights on their heads. They were emotionally crippled, mentally stunted, and stuck in a nightmarish "more of the same" vicious cycle with no way to help themselves. In hindsight, I realize they really did the best they could. Given their intellectual and emotional equipment, it's a miracle they didn't both die in an argument with a traffic sign or a lamp pole. Luckily, their behaviour was so outrageously stupid, irrational, nonsensical and incoherent that, even as a child, I realized that they were the ones not functioning properly, not me. So I guess after decades of battling them and the demons they put into me, I've finally come full circle. Sorry for the rant, I trust you'll recognize it as self-therapy.
Bless you for your insight, Im glad you made it through
I'm glad you thrived in spite of this.
Thank you for your kind replies. :-)
Sounds similar in that I also always knew my parents were crazy, not normal, since very early age. Their thought processes were so nutty that there was never no doubt for me about that.
I had a parent like this and even when I directly confronted her she would not accept it. She never did, never apologised. If you are looking for ownership from them or remorse, forget it.
You can approach them with solid evidence for all you like, they will still deny it. It's basically their mantra, "deny deny deny I take it to the grave with me"
I think understanding NPD really helps while you are in the relationship. If you can get out, that’s obviously ideal, but in the interim, it’s important to understand the condition so you aren’t making yourself insane trying to make them understand basic human emotions, normal social behavior or trying to make it work in general. It’s not going to unless you are okay with completely loosing your autonomy.
My ex wife would have occasional moments of clarity where she would realise that her behaviour was abusive and causing problems not only to those around her but to her own life too and the way people viewed her but those moments wouldn't last long she'd soon be back to her regular traits. I've been no contact with her for over 20 years now, I hear she hasn't changed.
Occasionally moments ..
Sometimes I get lonesome for the narcs and I ask myself a couple questions and then Im like nope nope nope I dont miss that! No thank you!
My ex had moments of clarity about himself, but he would always later deny that he had admitted it to me. Gaslighting!
No contact is really the only way to go and I hope most people can do it. These narcs are dangerous...it is heartbreaking the harm that they do. I am not contact with my mom and she still scares the hell out of me. The gaslighting alone literally makes me ill.
Brian G Narcissists avoid vulnerability like the plague. I'm guessing she recognized that confessing her true thoughts to you would make her vulnerable. I know my ex viewed vulnerability as weakness. I think they believe others will pounce on them and try to gain power over them (as they themselves would do) if they show any real humanity. That's why they'd rather leave a relationship than open up. It's so pathetic that they see others this way.
A narcissist is like a terrible driver that thinks they're actually an excellent driver. That's because they never care enough to look at the rear-view mirror to see the destruction they've left in their wake.
Thanks again and regards.
I believe they know and are proud of it - my sister who is one, danced around a shop singing “I’m a -itch, I’m a -itch” in a happy voice smiling to whoever was there. Unfortunately this included my 2 teenage children who she was meeting for the first time. Needless to say, she was not given any further opportunity to meet them again
In my experience, they have no clue that they’re narcissists. All they know is that everyone else is the problem. They surround themselves with enablers who justify their bad behavior. When someone in their circle finally does realize that their behavior is wrong, they either make excuses for the narcissist, or they call them out on their behavior. This results in narcissistic rage, which can lead to the discard. Once a narcissist loses control of you, beware - that’s when the smear campaign about you starts.
Without suggesting any form of condoning, I do believe, based on experience, that narcissistic people are at war with themselves on a deep hidden level, deeply traumatised, and in pain. It's impossible to live with all that, and, like people who create a 2nd personality within, to escape pain, narcissists create an attitude that gives them the sensation and experience of grandiosity
As soon as what's underlying is triggered, all hell breaks lose, for the pain is felt.
That's something that needs to be covered up at all costs, even at the cost of abuse of others. They're never happy, the power game is all they have and invest in, plus material gain, often.
You out this up so beautifully and well explained.
They've been told. They scoff. Their fantasy idea of themselves must be preserved and priorities above everything else at all costs. Predictable but exhausting.
Nodding my head through the whole description of group four. I've seen what damage a person of that group can do. Their lack of understanding of what they do wrong is what can get them sympathy and endless new chances because people around them think they should just try harder in explaining things to them. But luckily I've also seen how people who know more about toxic behaviors can come to a point where they stop giving chances.
It’s either an inability to think introspectively or that they lack the capacity to care whether they are causing pain to others
They only know the risk of being discovered...
MY late husband was a group 4. He would stare at me when I called him out, totally stunned that I could have a problem with him, as he was such a great guy, or he would have this smirk as if he thought I was over reacting, emotional and irrational and then one starts to doubt yourself. As I started to withdraw from him, he was constantly trying new things to draw me back but if it worked, it only worked once and then I was clued up and would not fall for it again. It got more extreme until he committed suicide, leaving me a super spiteful letter and probably very sure I would pine and blame myself for the rest of my life. But ti did and do not and just walked away without shedding a tear, sounds heartless but he played this threatening suiced game with all his family, they were not surprised and I refused to feel responsible for his decisions
Your NOT responsible for their actions! God bless you!
That smirk shows that they are enjoying what they are doing.
Great good on you my daughter is going thru hell at the moment ,I'm glad you shed no tear .Pat on the back for you
Good for you!!!! He played himself.
@douglaswilliams4274duper’s delight.
A good question that I've been asking for a while. It's always being projected back on me and causes me to question my own reality when I KNOW what I've heard, seen, felt, and treatment received. This is an exhausting battle that I've given up trying to figure out, but rather have finally been able to focus on my own healing and what I can control....which is my own actions and reactions.
Anytime you are questioning your own reality as a result of a narcissists words or actions towards you, you are experiencing gaslighting. It is a form of emotional abuse. Good for you for choosing to care for yourself and work on healing.
Sometimes the only winning move is to not play the game.
@brimstone33 Exactly 💯
@kmanderson266 Very true. Thank you for your response. It's truly exhausting. After 5 years of marriage I finally filed for divorce (almost 8 years together).
@Tino thank you so much!
I've known a few narcissists, some know and some don't, but they all share unacceptable and cruel personality traits. I believe in the spectrum and I like the way you've broken down these 4 groups Dr. Ramini. It really helps to understand narcissists better and to avoid them!
My ex-narc thought he was the most loving, kind and generous person in the world.
When dealing with narcissism, you should know that it’s not personal. “It isn’t personal” is one of those cliches used to cushion all kinds of bad actions taken by people who need an out for being immoral, but in this case it actually gets near the truth. Narcissists don’t know how to love or be a friend; they can’t afford to spare the energy to learn, because they’re always in a state of high emergency, cataloging potential threats and redoubling their defenses. When they claim to love you, it means nothing. They may even think they mean it, but they don’t understand the concept - they can’t feel it. They never attach to you or anyone else. Other people are paper cut-outs to the narcissist, like those cardboard figures of celebrities you pose next to for a selfie. Narcissist value their own children only as mirrors of themselves. When they destabilize you or attack you, it means nothing. They are stuck in an endless conversation with themselves, in which you are an inanimate object, to be assigned their own faults and used as a surrogate punching bag for their hatred of themselves. When they toss you out, it’s no more meaningful than a junkie tossing away a needle; when they try to reel you back in, it only means that they tired of the new drug and need a hit of the old. None of this is personal. They’re too terrified to have personal relationships, opting instead for extraction of admiration from a subservient partner whose range of action they strictly constrain. This is not personal. None of it. The narcissist does not know who you are - it doesn’t know how to know other people. Like the vampire or the chainsaw-wielding creature in the horror film, it’s from another world, bereft of the concept of human connection. Moreover, People wonder why they end up hurt, seriously hurt, and even killed for their own actions. Cheating is a choice and there’s simply a lot of ignorance in the process.... Thank you so much for helping me out Hackspyhub@gmail. com. Your advice and services helped me so much. You are a lifesaver !!! The information you gave me about my cheating partner when you gave me access to his phone was everything I needed to get,.. thank you very much..
Ramani, you spoke to 50,000 people in one day. Thank you for all of your good hard work. 💕💕💕💕✨🌈
My mother is a narcissist and my mom raised me so her way of parenting was all I knew. The part that is hell is I’ve learned and mirrored her ways and I absolutely hate that part of me. After I realized she was a narcissist I then realized I had to seek help( therapy) I moved away from her and went no contact and thought I was saved. It was then that I saw then that I finally Experienced my own narcissistic symptoms because now I had time to focus on who I was as a person without her narcissist chaos so basically me moving opened up the after math of the abuse. I have to relearn haw to parent my kids the right way. I’m so angry because they are older now( 4 boys ages 16,14,12,5)…..I struggle everyday with this because she taught me how to talk down to my children, degrade them, judge them ex…. Basically all the bad parenting strategists that narcissist use to raise children. I absolutely despise her for this. If anyone reads this, Know that you are not alone. Know that healing will take time. Don’t let them steal anymore precious time from your kids, husband and non narcissistic family members. TAKE YOUR POWER BACK BY BREAKING THIS CURSE AND LEAVE WITHOUT LOOKING BACK!!!!!
@Esther Wow!!!! Thank you so much for your response. Reading this gives me more strength to know you have so many people who have gone through what we went through with narcissistic family members. This issue is more dangerous then people realize. I mean im talking committing suicide. These people will have you thinking of ending your life and unfortunately many have because they just gave up. This support and words of wisdom is so powerful to fellow victims and could save many from giving up. Thank you for giving me your time and for caring. I don't know if you are a mother but if so, HAPPY MOTHERS DAY AND GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR KIND HEART.... THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!
This sounds great that you're breaking the generational curse and cycle of mistreatment. Very non-narcissistic of you to admit that you're having to put effort into overcome some bad habits. Good for you, and your four boys are lucky to have someone fighting to break the mold
♥️
I have a similar background...I'm so angry...I feel like my life was taken away from me...I just want to take my kids and run far far away from my whole family...start fresh...clean...leave all this darkness in the past...it was never mine to carry in the first place
@alexisrush91 Thats absolutely right queen. Dont claim it!!! Take yours gems and run and don't look back. I wish you peace, strength and endurance. You got this!!!
My ex wife mentioned the word once. I decided to lookup the clinical side of narcissism. And wow, it all made sense to me!!! I was enlightened.
My ex was group 3. It’s ridiculous how he didn’t see that his behaviour was wrong. At first I thought we see life differently and he was just raised without basic morals. Only to realise he is narcissistic. No time for self reflection or empathy.
That's what I thought, until I noticed the deliberate anger, the deliberate petty battles he would start.
I think I'm group 2. Or at least I want to be. I'm in a 7 year relationship with an empath and last week she said she wanted to end it. She is the one who found the narcissist definition and brought it it me. Initially, I tried to disprove it because its very hard to admit that I am narcissistic. I offered to go to therapy now that my eyes were opened, but im afraid it's too late. I want to thank you Dr. Ramani for this video and the one about narcissistic fatigue. My wife has been complaining for years about being tired and foggy as you described. I finally understand what I was doing to her all this time. I am deeply regretful of my behavior and pray that we can work it out for our kids sake.
Wow. Good on you.
Well done for recognising your own behaviour and how it impacts others, this is a truly remarkable breakthrough for a narcissist.
I genuinely hope things work out for your family unit and that you get to enjoy the rest of your life (in particular) being a better person as a result of your epiphany.
My dad does. He told me pointblank I'm NPD..... he's a MD with ASD...... and vulnerable NPD so bad that he denied reality constantly and CAN'T listen to others..... he told me as a last chance to relate to me, like as an excuse. And then he pushed me out of his house in an unexplainable rage and never spoke to me again. I spent my whole life being perfectly dutiful. 🤷♂️. Im guessing his brain knew adult-me was a threat to his fantasy life and moved on crying to my step-mom. Narcs are soooo weid and dangerous.
I have narcissistic traits; I have to keep myself in check sometimes.
" I am in a relationship with a world class ass"
This woman is my hero
My older sister checks off every box in how a narcissist is defined. She always talking about other people being narcissists! And I’m thinking, ‘does she have a clue?’ Obviously not. She’s perfect in her own mind, and incapable of any negative traits.
I call Narcs out all the time. It’s healing and therapeutic. It also stops the Narc with their antagonistic, abusive and destructive behaviour. They won’t want to feel shame, and humiliation. So it stops the Narc behaviour in my presence. Whether they stop it altogether is another matter. But I know when they are dealing with me, they don’t care to showcase those traits that I have called them out on.
Because I will beat their ego to a pulp and they will not have a leg to stand on once I am done with them.
Wish I could do that.
How do you do that?
@Hello-ur8zx You expose their vulnerabilities and weaknesses. It triggers shame and humiliation. It causes a lot of trauma for them, so they stop their behaviour so they don't get called out like that again.
For example:
- Narcs like to talk over people (you call them out as having low EQ for doing that because they can't listen to another POV). You tell them that they dominate the conversation rather than understand other perspectives. They feel humiliated because you made a valid point.
Narcs like to be controlling. You call them out as being controlling, living in fear, always needing to control everything in their surrounding. You say they operate in fear-based consciousness. Fear-driven. Fraidy-cats. Tell them, you're not going to be controlled by their low EQ behaviours.
Narcs lack self-awareness. They are good at reading other people to manipulate, but they have zero self-awareness. So you call out that too, and highlight all their weakness and vulnerabilities because they are so lacking in self-awareness.
Trust me, you hammer them with these points, they will be afraid to have any type of confrontations with you.
I've taken that approach, and it can go scary, some of these people are dangerous. I still feel that it is better to point out in plain terms why you set a boundary or are calling the behaviour out for exactly what it is. I find it difficult to have people play in my face and walk away without fighting for justice, honesty and accountability. Especially when in a situation where they are clearly aware that they are attempting to humiliate and dominate. But if they are charismatic, have a group of flying monkeys around them or simply get called out in front of other people who are like them and take offense themselves, it can result in them manipulating and destroying careers, friend groups and other opportunities as they take up a vendetta, empowered by others who secretly aren't wishing the best for you. (I'm thinking toxic workplaces, families and friends who prefer to not acknowledge their friends behaviour towards others as long as its not aimed not at them - like pack hierarchy). Then the partners who turn violent too. Do you have any tips, sentences, or responses that you have found can be delivered indicating the boundary without escalating the situation or causing dangerous retaliation. I feel this is where people get caught out and further hurt, because we get to a point of exhaustion repeating patterns whilst we question if they are good people, and finally when we can name their behaviour for what it is, it comes out with ineffective delivery, or triggers rage and pain in them which they use to project the shame and guilt back on us.
Your ego sounds a bit grandiose
I was originally going to say ‘no they don’t know and can’t admit it cuz that would mean there’s something wrong with them”. After watching this I see that there’s so much more to it! Thank you
😒😎😁😜😢 The ones who are at the receiving end.
They know, and don't ever seem to want to do anything about it.
@cc1k435 apparently you didn't watch the video - it's not as simple as that
My 28 year old Daughter,Scary Stuff
Threats, yelling and domination. I would add: name calling and belittling.
Bella Tindale,You look cute,Hope you are not with a narcissist....
Having both parent in category 3 and 4 make your life suffer
They do when you send them a link to the Mayo Clinic studies on the subject
Saved this one! What a great resource!
It’s hard to believe and admit that your loved one is a narcissist when they do not present as a flaming, mean, malignant, grandiose narcissist.
I am divorcing my “group 4” covert /vulnerable narcissist as I write this. It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done. I know the narcissism has its origins in attachment trauma and childhood neglect. I am a counselor-In-training myself. I have a lot of compassion and understanding for my husband. And, he can’t or won’t see that there is anything wrong with his behavior so it never changes. The back and forth from seemingly kind and self aware to entitled and blaming is exhausting. It is toxic and it is abusive-whether he is aware of what he is doing or not. After trying radical acceptance and managing my expectations for 2 years I’ve discovered the emotional, mental and spiritual energy that requires is more than I am willing to spend. I’m grieving and I’m moving on.
Thank you Dr. R. 💕 Your books, videos and webinars have been catalytic in my recovery and I’m so very grateful that you put out so much content for free!
Wishing you all the best. I am am planning my path to freedom. My son is 16 and the decision to leave is so difficult to act upon. I am in trauma therapy and have regained my body and soul. Still working on getting hold of my confidence and sense of self. I was nearly eaten alive in this marriage.
You have complete compassion from me and I'm sure from all of us,who have tried to understand and make the relationship work
@lizp5449 thanks. I filed for divorce on Friday. Good Friday, as it turns out. I didn’t plan it that way but as a person of faith it turns out to be a very meaningful “accident.” 💕
@kmanderson266 I so miss my our Christian Friends/ Who we used to socialize with regularly!
We only see his Flying monkeys now.. I have little in common with them…and I don’t give them personal information….!
My Narc/ Has turned his Back on God about 5 years ago… !
Obviously COVID also had a big impact on this.. I pray you are happy in your Future! Jenny 🙏🏻💕🌸
They enjoy hurting others.
My father is a true narcissist. If I tell him I he did wrong, he makes me the problem, or says I'm sensitive, or he tells me with sarcasm that it is good I have somebody to blame.
I always appreciate listening to you. I don’t think someone cares if they are a narcissist.
I was married to a Group 1 narcissist and finally “escaped” after 29 years! It was a hugely disfunctional marriage! I didn’t even know what narcissism was; I just used to tell friends he was a JOY SUCKER!
I think they do.
They know when to turn it on or off. Like at work vs at home in private.
In fact I asked him if he felt bad about stuff he's done. He absolutely does not. He said because its not his fault he is who he is. That right there tells me a. He knows and b. He does not give a hoot. He thinks he has a free get out of jail card!!!
The answer is yes. Because I'm a recovering narcissist. What helps me with my recovery is humility considering the possibility that I could be wrong about something.
I'm a Group 2 narcissistic whose burnt-out by my behavior. Thank you Dr. Ramani for all that you do!!!!
Good luck my friend
Good luck on your journey
How did you find out? If you don’t mind me asking. What do you do to control yourself.
Well done and good for you. I can respect a person that realises the error of their ways and tries to do something about it. I feel like you guys in this group maybe didn't say or do those certain horrible things on purpose? Like you just didn't realise what you were causing. I feel like you still maybe had an element of empathy and awareness and shame- that's why you were able to recognise your behaviour and know that it's wrong? Am I right, or am I far off? Lol.
I thought I might be in the second category as well, but I worry I may have been closer to the third category with how ignorant I was to the problems and pain I caused. I hope you're doing better, and I hope all of us narcissists who realize can continue to do better.
I've had narcs brag to me about how manipulative they are or enjoying making others cry . They know.
My mom is group 3... Ugh! She thinks is a hero but she's really a villain with amnesia!
These people prey on the young for that reason ❤sad
I am deeply grateful you made this video. I was so confused about my ex, and I now realize it's because he's in category four. I can feel the confusion and self-doubt slowly melting away and my confidence coming back.
When she described Group Four, she was perfectly describing my wife.
My 23 year old son has told me several times he thinks he is a narcissist & all he cares about is being right. He gaslights me & I feel like I have to walk on eggshells around him. We haven’t spoken in a few weeks. It’s very sad, because all I’ve ever wanted was to have a positive relationship with my son.
Hi ma’am. If I might recommend “how does someone become a narssisct by Dr. Ramini. It helped me both understand my own tendencies and relate to my mother in a more nuanced way.
You have lots and lots of company Gal.
My life has been entangled with them (family) and what I have seen is karma pays them back repeatedly and the final pay back will be in their judgement.
They are literally demonic but most act holy and use this ruse to further control and manipulate employing the name of the Father.
My ex finally admitted that he would not get counseling, because he would just lie to one, manipulate, and fool them.
Therapy is not effective if it is not genuine. They Will use it to learn new tricks, though, code words, buzz words, and tactics, and they will use the fact that they are in therapy to manipulate you.
😮 WOW!