I built 2 subwoofers for a custom situation that I consulted with Danny. Solid guy and super smart. My subs are amazing. Could not have bought anything close for what I spent.
Absolutely! Especially when there are expert companies like GR Research! Thanks for being there. OMG, I want a flat pack and speaker kit with all the upgrades! Outstanding!
With low end audio it makes sence. Cost cutting is a major factor. As the price goes up there comes a point where it's more about what you do with the component than how much it costs. There is a lot of experience and knowledge that goes into a speakers design. You could always say that swapping exactly the same parts for higher quality on a crossover for example will improve the overall sound However the same could be said with the rest of system too.
@bvocal That's awesome. There's no better value in audio than DIY. However there are many people that just don't have the time or interest to do so. Or they may have other hobbies that are priorities. For those people, such as many of my friends, they just want to "pay and play", which is fine as well.
@@paulkrasner Don't know about a $1,000 but for $3,000 you should do it easy. My last set of store bought speakers were $14k, I now listen to DIY speakers that are superior. I probably spent around the same kind of money going active, but it is a far superior sound to the store bought speakers, that used cheaper drivers and are passive.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering Your absolutely correct.... search Kangsound on google and i built a few large JBL 43xx speakers for 3-4K and used a fully active setup.... all the specs are online and anyone can do it...
@@paulkrasner Yeah, probably need to go up to about $3000 to get a $10K speaker. Curt Campbell and Jim Holtz, Bordeaux speaker will certainly surpass a $10K speaker for about $3K. Not to mention designs by Danny Ritchie and Troels Graveson and others.
This video earned you a Subscriber. And a future customer. I will purchase this kit (or upgrade) in June. Wish I could do it now, but I'm 3-4 projects deep in addition to the real world of a job interfering with the good stuff! I have my own CNC, so I appreciate the detailed plans on your site.
Hi there. First of all thanks for the video. I've build some speakers myself and recently exchanged my last DIY-Speakers for a new of-the-shelf solution, that is very hard to beat for DIY, but that's a different story. The thing with DIY is, that you have to make a clear distinction between pre-designed kits you can assemble yourself and a fully self engineered speaker. The first one is just some sort of Lego for Hifi-Enthusiasts, the second needs some serious experience and equipment, that an average Joe has no access to and that would completely ruin any price-ratio. Self assembly is also not trivial. If you get your cabinets pre-cut, with all holes drilled and machined it will be not as cheap as you think. (at least here in Germany) Same goes for soldering your crossovers. You need the tools and the skill and the biggest factor is time, that is just left out of the equation in some parts of the DIY-Community. But even if you manage all that, you just have a wooden box without any finish that may not really accommodate your living room. Getting a good finish is a hard thing and the wife acceptance factor is real. Auditioning a DIY-Speaker in your room beforehand can be difficult and in the end you will only find out how it sounds, after you've built that thing and it could possibly be crap, because speakers can be crap, even DIY ones. DIY is only cheaper if you just look at the materials. (Keep in mind that a big company will pay a fraction of the price for the parts, the labor and the equipment, because they produce on a much larger scale - on top you will get some sort of warranty or money-back-guarantee if you are not happy) If you treat it as a hobby or passion or you want to build something very exotic, than DIY can be an option. But assuming that some guy on the internet can develop a speaker that will outperform and be cheaper than a comparable speaker of a professional company with a high level of expertise and equipment is a fallacy in my book. Some DIY Speakers can sound fantastic (usually these types ar not cheap and not so easy to build), just as some pre-built speakers can. If you really want to up your bang for the money game forget all the cable nonsense and take a look at the pro-audio market and check out some entry level studio monitors from JBL, Yamaha, KRK and the like. You can get a very decent setup for your money, that is really hard to beat price-wise, even with DIY in mind. (Or look out for second hand speakers; last generation top tier speakers can be found for cheap and second hand DIY-Speakers can be had for even less, because the resale value is usually awful, because people prefer brands)
A few decades ago, I used to work in a shop that was set up to do A/B demos of speakers that customers brought in against various higher-end brand name speakers that the company either had available used, or a few of the most common for sale new, and the rest available to order. I felt sorry for, even embarrassed for, most of the DIY'ers who came in all proud to show us the superiority of their builds. With few exceptions, there were obvious sonic problems that had not been identified or solved with the very limited understanding, do-it-yourself guides and calculations, etc., that had been employed. This shop also sold DIY speaker components, crossovers, etc. for those who wanted to go that route, however. The speaker components had the same kinds of profit margins applied to them as the speaker systems. In fact, the margins were often even higher on these components, meaning that even a lower percentage of every retail dollar was making it back into the construction and materials. My major takeaway from those experiences was that, all the criticisms and imagination in the DIY community notwithstanding, when actual A/B demonstrations were done and not just theoretical numbers or graphs put up that were supposed to sound superior, DIY results rarely stood against the best that the major names could engineer and build for the same money. Another lesson from it was that more money and the "right" company reputation were no guarantors of better sound. We hated to see the occasional customer show up with certain Radio Shack bookshelf speakers. They were generating some significant results for the money with those, mostly in Taiwan in those days, and it was common for customers to leave surprised and pleased with those cheap speakers that they already owned against the best American or European alternatives that we could offer within 3x the price and size. Sometimes large-scale production can mean reduced secondary and tertiary costs and a little more money going into components if the company isn't just focused on being as cheap or as profitable for shareholders as possible (at any cost to the product). I totally agree with your point about the real place to look being the pro market, but you have to know enough or learn enough to understand what you're buying there because the purposed engineering is much more specific than in consumer products. (In those same experiences mentioned above, my enthusiasm for JBL was curbed significantly by some of their price vs. performance weaknesses at the time, though they were better on the pro side.)
@@ReflectedMiles Very interesting insight and great read. I just love it when someone knowledgeable and passionate about Hi-Fi shares his experience and is rational about it - This is something that is, surprisingly in this age of easily accessable information, very needed. To me DIY-loudspeaker is a market, just like Hi-Fi in general is, so the same rules apply, but the general consensus within the scene (at least on what I've picked up by talking to enthusiasts and sellers on- and offline) seems to be, that this isn't the case and every company of pre-built speakers is trying to rip you off. Same goes for the pro-market. In regards to JBL, I'm just stunned that they are able to produce a speaker with an amp inside for about 100 bucks that is actually very decent. Whether you like the way a certain monitor is presenting music is, as you've stated, very personal and a studio monitor remains a loudspeaker with the same limitations, compromises and differences that all loudspeakers share. It is a label/marketing term that is not standardized and can mean anything or nothing. At least there is, imho, less overload of audiophile/esoteric concepts in the Pro-market, because it is harder to sell this stuff to the group of people that it is aimed at.
@@ReflectedMiles completely agree with all that except, perhaps going down the active studio monitor route. Studio monitors are designed to sound honest, hi-fi is designed to sound good. I have a pair of Mackie HR624's, and they are great as studio monitors because they have an extremely flat frequency response; they are very honest. But in terms of listening pleasure they don't compare to my TDL3's driven by an old Technics SUA900, which really bring the music to life. And these two setups were roughly in the same price range. Just my two-penceworth.
Uncommon Sense I don’t think I addressed active studio monitors. The pro market is its own animal and it confuses audiophiles to no end who don’t have the relevant training and experience. That’s why I wrote that someone has to really know, or learn from pros, what they are doing for that to be a great place to look. For example, there is a large semi-pro market aimed at musicians that has some really cheap junk in it as well as some decent alternatives to the HiFi consumer market in certain things. I don’t know any engineers personally who would regard Mackie as a pro name, for example. A few on the sound-reinforcement side of the business might recommend certain models for stage monitors in certain situations, but that’s about it. There are some inherent problems with amps inside speaker enclosures in pro applications. For a local band or church use, etc., they can be fine, but for unsponsored pro gigs with massive and precise demands for performance, there will likely be a rack of amps nearby instead. (Sometimes there has to be, hidden from view, even if sponsored.) HiFi is, of course, short for “high fidelity.” In theory, at least, that would mean accuracy rules, but I am well aware of the packaged deception of everything from the creation of the signal to the dominance of personal preference and the use of playback components as instruments rather than as reproducers. That is the whole point of A/B listening comparisons done for the average consumer. Leslie (organ speakers) built a whole company and legacy on that concept. The last thing you want from organ and many guitar speakers is fidelity. Sometimes that’s the last thing you want in a whole genre of music and that can present a rather bizarre engineering challenge. There was a lot of angst back in the day when most engineers saw rock-and-roll and its follow-ons as auditory obscenities.
@@ReflectedMiles ah, my bad, when you said "forget all the cable nonsense and take a look at the pro-audio market" I interpreted that to mean active studio monitors, where you're not using speaker cable. You may be right that the Mackie's aren't found in many recording studios, I honestly couldn't say, but they were definitely made for that market, and they're a good speaker for that purpose. If you have £1000 to spend (the price of a pair of Mackies) I dare say you have some pretty good choices for amp + speakers in the hi-fi market.
Great video! Loved the breakdown of what it costs to manufacture a speaker, very interesting. I did not go total DIY on my speakers. I picked up a beautiful set of Infinity RS-6 Kappa speakers. Then stripped out and replaced the crossovers, wiring, and drivers. Thanks for another great video Danny!
Great presentation. Now you need to get someone like Steve Gutenberg to bring people your way. Many years ago I volunteered to be a room monitor at an audio conference so that the vendors could get out and about and see the other rooms. There was a nice guy there that had some model speakers and was trying to get funding to start a speaker manufacturing company. He sketched out plans, drivers and crossover for me and told me to feel free to build the speakers and I did. I've had them for 20 years.
@@bobmcmillen5298 I would, but for two things. 1) He specifically told me I could use the design for my own use. He's now passed away, so that probably doesn't matter. 2) The tweeter he used has been out of manufacture for many years now. I would say that the TriTrix MTM Tl design by Curt Campbell is very close with the offset tweeter.
@@bobmcmillen5298 Sure. I added email to my youtube 'channel'. go ahead and message me with your email. I'll scan the plan and send you a photo of my completed speakers too.
Danny only covered half the equation. We pay 2-5x the price for parts compared with manufacturers (do you really think a Chinese factory pays the same price for cable or MDF as a DIYer in NY, for example?) So their $200 parts bill can become a $600 parts bill for the DIYer for the same parts. For really cheap speakers, it can cost the DIYer even more to build than to buy new. DIY can be a real money saver but generally only when competing with more expensive speakers (>$1,000).
You are right. Even the small niche manufacturers get parts for about 30% of retail. Super large manufacturers pay less than 10% of retail. So a $100 tweeter will cost B&W or Focal maybe $20. Bose’s 301 woofer retails for about $30 but they pay $3. That’s their buying power since that woofer is custom made for them.
I've looked at commercial designs that use the same drivers as in kits and the kits are a lot cheaper. Can't compare the crossover parts though. I was comparing Joseph Audio speakers that use Seas drivers and Madisound kits with the same drivers.
@@brandonkerr160 I work at hifi store and its actually 40% plus tax. Retail price of lets say definitive technology bp 9080 is around 2k each so 4k a pair. As a employee I could buy it for 1k plus 5% because company policy. And we are buying from distributor that also makes money on it. And manufactuer also needs to make money on it etc
WOW! I'm so happy I ran into your video. Your delivery is clear, non-verbosic, and your facial features read that to the best of your knowledge, what you are saying is true. You are a rare presenter. You explanation of the retail market was amazing and by that, could you tell me which DIY companies you like. I have used Parts Express but not for enclosures. Please answer or make a video giving the same way you talked about the Chinese fecal line-up. I can't wait to watch your archive videos. Thanx for being there and sharing your body of knowledge. 5 Stars TD Hanson
By far one of the biggest factors in making a speaker soymd as good as it can must be the enclosure design, which should be matched to suit the ts parameters of the drivers. Quality of parts is.important, but my understanding is the better components wont make much difference without a good box design. Also obviously, good speakers only sound good with a good audio signal path and quality amplification. Ive built and designed a couple of large 3 way floor standing speakers using pa and hifi compoments, driven from an old pa power amp with a hifi preamp and the results blew me away. I love speaker design and maybe getting a really good amplifier and reciever setup to keep will be a good place to reach in order to then experiment with and swap new speakers.
I DIY and mod things as much as I possibly can to upgrade, but without messing up performance of the component. I DIY’d my phono pre for $800, instead of paying $3,500 for the real deal. I prefer it to the real deal anyway. DIYing is the way to go for sure. Not to mention, the satisfaction you get out of that component working well for you. You most likely end up loving that piece of gear or spkrs more if ya make em yourself.
Danny is the man. Great guy to work with and his designs always sound tremendous. He speaks the truth when he says his designs are a cut above production speakers available (that he didn’t design).
Very true, I’m fairly new to “audiophile” grade equipment but one of the best things about the hobby is the deal and I feel like this gets lost in DIY. Maybe that only pertains to me because I’m broke 🤣
Some sandcast resistors are actually pretty decent. I've used the sandcast Dayton resistors to no ill-effect, and thermal drift isn't really an issue unless you're absolutely cranking the snot out of them. Mills resistors are a bit better in terms of thermal drift, at three times the cost.
Danny couldn't be any more accurate here. With a bit of time and effort, you could end up with a speaker that outperforms commercially available speakers at a 5th the cost. I've been DIYing from kits for years (including assisting a friend with a pair of Danny's kits), and the results are always better than what can be purchased for a fraction of the $$. Great VID!
This video NAILED it for exactly why i won't buy Manufactured speakers any more. People assume that the company has been around for decades that the "name" Brand is good, but when you look inside the speaker "Klipsch" it's actually JUNK shit crap parts inside. BUT people think it sounds good and is good because of the name :( so sad!! Good video sir !! Keep these up !
Danny! I just found your channel, and I have watched several of your videos, and I must say I am extremely impressed! I plan on watching your videos, after finding this one on DYI speaker building, you seem really down to earth and a no bullshit kind of guy! Keep up the good work! 10 Thumbs Up[!
Great video and very useful information. I've told people for years that DIY is the way to go for most situations if you have the time/tools to do so. Thanks for putting this out
You are correct. It is a 5 to 1 ration. A one doller product will cost you 5 dollars at retail. DIY makes sense when you want a 10K pair of speakers for 2K. I am looking at 5K kit or 25K retail.
Very informative. I was looking at some vintage speakers for my Marantz 4400, but now I am considering a kit with perhaps some period correct grill material. Thank you for the video.
What was the music at the beginning? DIY is definitely worth it. I am a big proponent: you are in control what you want and what you make. You have fun in the process, and satisfaction with final results. Not to mention saved money. Go for it!
I have found your channel. This is an awesome, & very educational as well. I will be buying a kit. To make my own. You sir have a new subscriber. Have a great Thanksgiving, & Merry Christmas too.
I own a pair of DIY speakers. They have a Fountek neoCd 3.5h ribbon twitter and two Peerless 8inch drivers each. The cost is around 900euros and they are build by a local professional speaker maker, so they are not exactly home diy. I can say is that they sound like much more expensive speakers. So diy, if you have someone with knowledge and can help you, is very good because all the money goes to the drivers, the cables, the crossover, the box. No taxes, no retailer profit or shipping costs. You get what you pay for. Aftermarket choices have the benefit of better finish quality and maybe more technology behind the box or crossover.
Danny, this is a great video and what i am looking is on building a tower speaker and what are youre recomendation and would like to have the upgrades as well can you be able to help me with this . and do you have a video on how the speakers sound ?? thank you
great vid - is it worth mentioning the 3rd route? - making a diy speaker from scratch to an existing design - essentially the same as your option 1 with more involvement in the woodwork. downside to diy - resale value.
I knew a lot of what was covered in this but to hear it said out loud backed-up with pictures did make me give my head a shake. Good video, subscribed. 🤗
I built the Seas Odin with Millennium drivers with upgraded crossover and hi quality components by Joe D’Appolito in 2003 and have been enjoying them for many many hours. $1400.00 for materials. Snell had the same speaker for $5000.00, Avalon and Joseph Audio also have similar configurations all above $5k. The only way to go. DIY
Buying DIY you still have to pay a mark up to the retailer, who pays a markup to the distributor, who pays a markup to the factory. So the $50 woofer you bought likely was built for $10, same ratio as the commercial product example. Still, your points remain very valid in whole, but going DIY isn't always going to provide the best value, especially if the drivers and networks are not matched well. Keep the videos coming, I am thoroughly enjoying them!
We don't have middle men, distributors, or dealers. And we have our drivers made in large quantities. So there is much less mark up on our drivers than you see in the rest of the industry.
Great video. I wish you had a thin, tall floor stander with MTM design using your tweeters and your 130mm drivers with say a total of 4 side firing woofers of 6.5” - 7” diameter range. Say, 42” tall, 7”-8” wide and 18-20” deep. Kinda like the Audio Physic designs. 🤔🤔
I built one of your kits years ago and they sound pretty good. I wish the flat-packs were available then. I destroyed my brother in laws old router. As far as copper wiring is concerned I do not believe the molecule structure changes in China or the USA. Our ears are connected to our brain and that makes listening tests anecdotal at best. Speaker companies have 'economies of scale' something like your ability to buy the large stock of woofers. I love Harbeth speakers and Alan Shaw (the owner and designer ..and electrical engineer) would refute most of your sonic claims. I do not have 16K so I build my speakers from kits from the usual suspects of which you are a part of. I enjoyed building your speaker kit and your service was excellent. Great seeing you on video. Cheers!
Thanks for purchasing from us. I appreciate that and your feedback. As far as Copper wire from the US or China goes. I know from experience and independent metallurgic test that most of what comes out of China is 94 to 96% Copper. The reason being is a lot of it is recycled. And swapping out a Chinese made inductor for a US made inductor from a company like Erse makes a notable improvement. I also have dozens of different cables over here and it is actually harder to find two different types, brands, or configurations that sound the same than anything else. They all sound a little bit to a lot different. And a lot of what we've learned in A/B comparisons of wire has made our speakers better.
Funny thing is a customer just posted a picture of one of the Harbeth crossovers in my forum at the Audio Circle. The picture certainly says a lot about the beliefs of the designer and explains why they sound the way they sound. www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156605.msg1767176#msg1767176
How does it not? The differences are often fairly significant. Even the color of the dielectric material can have an effect due to the materials used to make the dye.
Capacitance. I used to work for a Radiation Therapy & Dosimetry manufacturer and the extremely high resistance of feedback resistor used in the amplifier circuit for the Ion chamber probes were glass encased that required the use of gloves to handle because if you touched the glass the flow of current would travel through your finger oil left on the glass rather than through the the glass-encased resistor and blow the accuracy of the gain circuit for that amp.
James Miller But the human body has less impedance and capacitance than plastic does. So what you’re saying makes sense, sort of like in a Tesla’s coil encased in glass when you touch it. But PVC jacketed wire has an unmeasurable amount of impedance and capacitance.
Hi Danny, I own a pair of Bronz 2 Bookshelf speakers Manufactured by Monitor Audio. Is there an upgrade video for these speakers. Your videos are easy to understand and work on. Thanks.
There are plenty of reasons to buy factory speakers. Advanced materials and construction techniques, proprietary technologies and drivers, resale value, etc.
The first five minutes could really be summed up as "For retail to stay in business, they need a 100% markup, it's just the way the industry works, and so everything is built to a much lower price point than you'd expect to cover everyone's margins".
@@Excalibur1201 Seems to be more than 110%, if he makes net profit of 10% (his comment below) and he includes the cost of buying new stock into that calculation (and operating costs etc.) There are still fewer middle man involved though, so still worth it. edit: Maybe he didn't count the cost of the original stock?
One problem with DIY is there is little guarantee you'll like the end product. Most DIYers will not have access to audition the same design elsewhere before deciding to pull the trigger on a kit, etc. Then there's the challenge of finish. I know I can clamp together some panels but when it comes to application of veneers I'm clueless, so I'd have to factor in the cost of paying a local craftsman to do that portion. And I'd have to hope the guy doesn't fudge it up. I once ordered a pair of factory-direct speakers that came with very expensive drivers. I figured I'd be getting better value than any retail-market speaker just for the fact that it was a small company that cuts out distribution cost. Well, unfortunately, the finished product was so atrocious that I had to send them right back. The crossover had come loose from the cabinet in both speakers and of the screws that held the crossover access panel in place, only two of them were long enough to screw into the adjacent panel. The Crossover coils were loose on the boards - they had been secured by much too long bolts (for air-core inductors??). Instead of using the correct length, this designer stacked a bunch of washers on one end. The veneer finish was pathetic compared to any $300 pair, yet these speakers cost over $4K! My point here is that there are real advantages to buying speakers through traditional channels, even for some like myself who are not afraid of DIY assembly. I have no doubt that I could get better performance from the right DIY project, for the same price as some of my retail-market pairs, but is the difference so great that it'd be worth foregoing any warranty, or being stuck with poor resale value if I decide to move them on? Or is it even worth the risk that I might hate the sound once assembled? I really like the factory-direct model for value if it's done right, with high quality product.
Interesting thoughts. Like any speaker there is no guarantee that you'll like the end result. But in the case of the speaker used in the example (the X-LS Encore kit) you can get guaranteed results. It is a professionally designed model with hundreds of them out there, tons of online feedback, awards , and speaker shoot outs that have been won. There is a warranty with our kits. If any of our drivers fail for any reason that doesn't involve a burned voice coil then we take care of it. And to be honest, we don't have driver failures. And resale value is usually greater than the cost of the kit. And there are so many of these around that there might even be some in your area that you can hear. Our customers love showing off their systems. Still it is a DIY kit. You have to like the do it yourself aspect, or have someone to help you get it done.
Finishing isn't something people are going to learn overnight. As someone who restores/refinishes antiques, furniture, and firearms... finishing wood, applying veneer, and applying a nice looking coat of varnish can be quite a headache. For inexperienced people, i'd recommend painting speaker cabinets. Once the box is built, sand to 180 grit and do a bondo skim coat to fill any imperfections. Sand that back and use a good primer... sand... and recoat.If you dont have an air compressor and HVLP gun, i'd go with SprayMax 2k spray cans. 2k paint is a two part coating that consist of the paint and an activator. (think epoxy glue). 2k paint can leave an amazing finish and best of all since it is 2-part, it dries/cures super fast and are extremely durable. The spray max cans have both components. You smack a button on the bottom of the can for them to mix. Here is a Tapered Quarter-Wave Pipe speaker i just finished building. I built it using Baltic Birch plywood (better than MDF) and finished it using dark walnut Transtint dye followed by a half dozen coats of General Finishes Arm-R-Seal oil based Varnish. imgur.com/gVKF2Yb
Most speaker brands only develop and spend money on their new stuff. and then the drives trickle down their product lines. Currently KEF R series use the Uni-Q driver version 12 yet the Reference and blades use the version 11 that's many years old. did not see anywhere that they plan to update their drivers anytime soon...
@@gendaminoru3195 I was thinking more using a program to show the frequency response and waterfall. Like they regularly do to show a speakers performance, although it does not convey everything, you get a rough idea of how well the system works.
I was believing most of what you were saying until you claimed that the polyethylene insulated wire provided “much better sound quality” than pvc insulated wire. You then blew all your credibility. (I am a retired electronics engineer and audiophile with 19 US patents).
Colleges and I have made those listening comparisons many times, and we've spent a huge amount of time and resources listening, and quantifying those differences. The dielectric material has a very notable difference in how it sounds. Degrees and patents aren't listening tests.
@@dannyrichie9743 That's a remarkable claim, one which if proven would change the world of science and electronics forever. But no, you're a commenter on RUclips. Audio signals are one of the most trivial signals you can send over wire. Hilariously trivial. If the sheathing mattered at all to an audio signal, you could prove it with an oscilloscope.
@@sjwright2 We've confirmed clear and repeatable differences from listening. And we've got the same results using many different groups and systems. Most of us in this industry have already accepted that those differences are a given from our experiences.
Howard Leopold Yes, that’s complete BS. I have always said there is no file more abrasive than the audiophile. The crap goes even deeper than wire insulation, believe it or not. Wisdom such as orienting your power amplifier to the magnetic field of the earth, the superior sound resulting from $1000 IEC AC line cords with the exact same connectors as industry standard $15 items, and on and on. There are people who think we didn’t land on the moon, that the earth is flat. Opining loudly on a subject of which you know very little is a curiously common human failure. It makes for good satire.
I do DIY for fun, shits and giggles. Wavecor Needle, 871 Needle, FRS8M needle, folded Viech center, half a dozen Onkens, no premade speakers since 2004. Still need to replace my Visaton Portraits with thin speakers for my desktop, any recommendations let me know. Or just some really thin woofers, that would help too. And because what I want cannot be bought, 4cm thick stone rainwater drainpipe, 80cm high and 30cm diameter, 45 kilo, talk about a proper subwoofer.
I just wish i could slightly improve my bookshelf boston acoustics with out replacing the crossovers or sending them to Gr myself.Any ideas?,Ive removed the inside white cotton.Improved the mids noticebly.open to easy suggestions.? Thanks.
I have some JBL L50 10" ported 3-way. Should I upgrade the caps to poly? Upgrade the resistors to mills? I've already change out the original caps, but I used electrolytic. Would I notice a difference in clarity upgrading the components in these 40 year old speakers?
@Dirk Knight I totally hear ya Brother Dirk Knight, and I'm with ya on the bullshit of audio crossover upgrades for the most part. The thing is, I've tried the space age technology speakers with the unobtanium tweeters and the carbon fiber woofers injected with unicorn farts (for faster bass :) Don't forget the over- braced cabinets with zero resonance, and mirror finish. I've also listened to many of my friends systems of even higher caliber than my budget could stand. At the end of the day none of it sounded as good to my ears, as my long gone 70's era Pioneer/JBL setup I jammed back in the early 80's. So I went out and purchased something close. Sent the receiver off to a pro for minor repairs, and I refoamed the drivers, recapped the crossovers (with Dayton electrolytic) and replaced the tweeters with a Peerless 1-1/8" silk dome. I've even tested each driver with DATS V3 to make sure they were up to snuff, and all but the original tweeters surpassed expectations (as most vintage drivers do). After some room tweeking the whole setup sounds exactly as I remembered, and I regularly get compliments from friends and family who've heard it. In the above post, I asked Danny about the crossover upgrades just to hear his opinion. Nothing more than that. I didn't realize I was gonna get trolled by the "Newer is always better" section :P Just kidding brother
@Dirk Knight Reasonably priced high end vintage gear is my favorite style in Hifi. In both sound and looks. I'm well off, but I don't have dirty politician money. Nothing looks more out of place than a set of B&W Nautilus or 6ft tall Legacys in the average living room..........or maybe I'm just jealous. It could be that too
I try not to do a lot of assembly work. I just don't have the time for it. But I can direct you to guys Mike Mike Lundy that can build them out for you. www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=164355.0
How does a company like Bic America make such nice speakers and sell them for so cheap? I just bought two tower speakers (PL-89) and got them delivered to my door for $225 each. They have a higher model (PL-980) and you can get them delivered for $330 each. I was shocked at how good they performed for the price.
@@Newrecordday2013 Maybe you can help. I have been digging for a good video on assembling the X-LS Encore crossover but can't find one. The GR Research video is not filmed or explained well and Randy's at Cheap Audio Man isn't clear either. Any suggestions? I'd love to give it a try but ...
I was just looking up some videos of these speakers to show my girlfriend them, didn't realize that my grandfather's work would be shown (Peter). Small world eh.
I saw the title in the thumbnail & automatically thought: Naturally & obviously it's worth it as manufactures are just folk who did it themselves but had to put on big mark-up prices for them & the delegated mass production workers to live off & feed their fanilies. & selling through the middle men with a doubling(?) mark-up ...& all the other reasons told here like cost-cutting & often greedily. Quality of work we put it together with is all we need to think about with good kits like this while we save a small fortune & get the best sound per Pound (we say in u.k.) best hollor per Dollar? best hearer for your Lira ...err
I was wondering what your view is on monitors versus hi-fi? I generally feel the biggest difference is the design for monitors or near field speakers lends itself to the listener being between 1 to 3 meters maximum with the speakers being placed closer to a wall whereas hi-fi speakers are generally design for the listener to be 3 meters or greater away from the speakers and also a greater distance from a wall. Certain hi-fi manufacturers have tuned their enclosures to take advantage of the speakers placement to a wall of even the corner of a room. Do you guys offer a DIY kit or other designs that would fall closer to the professional recording market? I mean if I could build the equivalent of say a set of Focal near fields or perhaps similar two way or three way monitors, active or passive, without breaking the bank, that would be a win. BTW, I’ve seen several comments to the Yamaha NS-10s mentioned in the comments. These speakers made their debut in the recording industry as a way to give engineers to judge what their mixes would sound like on the average Joe’s home speakers. I have recorded and mixed with these many times. They are great for quick references but long exposure using them just caused me listening fatigue, no matter how much tissue paper was draped over the tweeters and often caused my bass response to either be overhyped because they didn’t produce low frequencies well enough or I tried to compensate for the poor low frequency representation and found too little detail in the low frequencies.
First of all you are correct about the Yamaha's. I have designed an upgrade for them and have about eight studio's using the upgraded version. See it here: www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=144300.0
And yes, I have designed a top level studio monitor. See the original design and build thread here: www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=160647.msg1713826#msg1713826
The vast majority of people now have a much lower reference point imo due to listening through their devices (my brain explodes when I hear people saying their phone/iPad speakers get “pretty loud”). The market seems to be heavily influenced by what’s socially acceptable (Europeans tend to prefer much less bass compared to Americans) and it’s not as much about fidelity anymore (ie beats by Dre, anything Bluetooth and portable). I’m convinced that cognitive bias toward powerful marketing strategy is more of an influence to the average person over their ability to differentiate quality audio reproduction. In short, most do not have the ear to even decide what is or isn’t a decent system (sonos be damned).
There have been a number of comments that a problem with DIY speakers is the lack of resale value. I would say that you lose a lot less with high quality DIY speakers than with most, if not the vast majority of commercial speakers. When you sell a pair of speakers you can expect to get around half of what they cost new. Therefore, you could expect to get $1,500 for speakers that cost $3,000 new. That’s a loss of $1,500. If you put $1,000 into a pair of speakers like the X-LS Encores Danny talks about in this video, you get speakers that easily matche if not exceed the performance of those $3,000 speakers. If you later sell the DIY speakers for half what you had in them, you would lose $500. That means you came out $1,000 ahead with the DIY speakers vs the commercial speakers. For that matter, you could give the DIY speakers away for nothing and still be $500 better off than with the commercial speakers. To address the issue of “but are DIY speakers really able to perform as well as substantially more expensive commercial speakers?” At an audio show earlier this year, a pair of X-LS Encores with all the upgrades Danny had to offer were compared head to head with a new pair of commercial speakers retailing for $7,500. The consensus was the Encores more than held their own.
i was considering a pair of Klipsch rp600s... this has me thinking i coudl do better with a DIY kit. anyone have experience, or know a DIY forum I could hit up to compare DIY kits to the RP600s?
Probably I should have a look on this guy's website. I'm looking for a pair of good sub-woofers to complement my speakers, but everything decent on the market seems so overly priced. This bloke did a good explanation how the consumer market price point is made up. But I really think that with some consumer electronics it is even worse, that $1000,- phone might not even cost $100,- to produce, including labour, machine cost and R&D. Why is it that a certain model phone suddenly sells for a bit over half the RRP when a new model is launched?
I don't think that the retailer puts a 100% profit margin when they sell say a pair of decent branded speakers, but i might be wrong about that. The large speaker producers have have long term, large volume contracts with their mostly Chinese suppliers. I have seen drops from 41 US$ for 100 units, down to 26 US$ for 10,000 units and the manufacturers does not work with 100% profit margin. I think that it is unrealistic to expect to get the equivalent quality of a pair of 2,000 US$ speakers, when spending 50 US$ on components. Don't get me wrong, I am not against DIY and I am about to build a pair in the near future and the components cost a tad over US$ 700 and I will probably spend around US$ 300 on the casing. If the result can match, including the finishing of the casing, a US$ 3,000 pair of branded speakers, then I am happy. An added bonus is the fun of building the speakers and this is the main motivation for my project.
I'm starting to research this as I want to build a set of three-way powered studio monitors that I could EQ for recreational listening as well. I will probably want between 200 - 300 total RMS for each speaker. These will be running off of my computer that I use for my sound/video editing. do you have any packages that fit this guesstimate? I'd like to go with the flat-pack method on the enclosures. Do you have any input on this? Thanks, Paul. P.S. These would be connected via XLR. I've got a rich man's taste for sound quality with a beer drinker wallet :-)
10-15 years ago diy was wheres its at. These days it still is versus retail, however there are some crazy deals on used stuff these days if you are patient and check often. Just saw some sell a pair of Klipsch Chorus II for $200. Even if you had to recap and do upgrades your not touching that performance for under $1000 diy.
There are areas we look for in high end audio such as image layering, soundstage depth, and transparency, and speakers like those come up way short in those areas. So it depends on what you are looking for.
Hello Loved your video and wanted to purchase a kit. A link below is a dead link and was wondering if that was the link I needed. Thank you for your time. Darryl Hubbard
Sorry, but I don't buy it. Maybe if you have the time and skill to build your own cabinets then it's worthwhile, but there's no way it's going to be cheaper than buying a premade set of speakers if you're going to pay someone else to build cabinets for you. When you buy completely built speakers, the manufacturer will have tooling that significantly decreases the cost of building and finishing cabinets. The manufacturers have deals with shippers that significantly decreases their freight costs (and that's assuming you're buying from one of the few standalone hifi stores that are still around. If you're purchasing from a chain or one of the big online companies, they get deliveries to their central warehouse by container, and then to individual stores by their own trucks. Their shipping prices per unit are extremely low). Now of course, comparing with a a pair of super-high-end speakers with huge markups is different, but in general having a set of custom cabinets made will eat up any savings you've realized by purchasing the driver kit. This pitch is similar to the ones used by MLMs; supposed to be saving money by eliminating the retail chain. Well, the retail chain has been optimized to reduce all relevant costs to as low as they can practically go. Same thing applies here.
I design products for companies that offer completed speakers just like you mentioned. Because of dealer mark ups you can still get more bang for your buck in the DIY market even if someone builds you cabinets.
There is a intermittent high pitched noise coming through on your audio of this video. Not sure where the issue lies, but it is not on my end. It's up above the 10k mark and it is annoying. Other than that, I appreciate the detailed presentation. I am looking to go DIY in the near future. Thanks!
Not everyone has 3-4000$ to spend on DIY speakers tho.. I believe that for a person who just started listening more seriously to music, has a pricerange on their intro-speakers of around 1000$ , and if you're buying DALI, that can actually yield some good floorspeakers with no need to buy subwoofer. Buying DIY speakers for 4000$ or there around, is just not an option unless you have access to a good woodworking station, soldering equipment and experience in building. I've build my fair share of speakers and now when i don't have access to a carpenterstation, there's no point to buy those speakers anymore because the end result would be suffering greatly without access to the right equipment for building.
You forget to mention that parts are for a diy-er tree times as high as for a company. My view is that you pay half the money of a factorymodel for a diy kit. It is however not viable for low end like below $100 per piece. Compare it to soup, homemade is much better than a can but it can't be made as cheap as the lowest price cans.
That’s just nonsense. The fact they get good pricing does not mean they are a charity, they are a business and deserve to make a profit. And trust me, they do. By the way, they won’t have the purchasing power of B&W or any large manufacturer. They have a mark up. All you save if the cost of finishing and cost of shipping a larger speaker box vs just shipping drivers
I have worked for a loudspeaker factory: Celestion and Kef in Ipswich UK. Yep, a manufacturer is looking for profit......but most have years of research behind them. How many DIYers have an anechoic chamber and a thousand pounds worth of microphone to test the frequency response?
@@deanmartin6052 So let a set of professional people assemble this into a good speaker? If you are not even designing the cabinet, then why bother?. What type of wadding would you recommend? and how much?.............you are buying 90% of a speaker manufactures effort then, just let them finish the job because they know how to do it.....just like we did at Celestion. But OK , Beware, we made a shit load of Sanyo china made Bang and Olufsen speakers ...stick a "Made in the UK" sticker on it...add £500 and ride the wave. Here is my basic rule of thumb for DIY bullshitters: Does the cabinet look really big compared to the size of the bass driver?...If so then it's all bullshit. The Best sounding speaker I have ever heard are Turbosound Milan 10".....fucking amazing at any level.....can't tell you why....just hear them.
So glad I found this video. Loved listening to Danny break this down. Time to build some speakers! Thanks Danny!
I think so! The satisfaction and pride you have building youre own speakers!!!!
Building you are own speakers?
@@Testfortest142 Thats rice. He is builded her own spokers. Seriousnessly, it is's not the speakers he is builded but her sprakers cabinet.
I billed mi own sprakers f-sho!!!
Probably the best video I've seen related to the topic mass products vs, DIY.
I built 2 subwoofers for a custom situation that I consulted with Danny. Solid guy and super smart. My subs are amazing. Could not have bought anything close for what I spent.
Absolutely! Especially when there are expert companies like GR Research! Thanks for being there. OMG, I want a flat pack and speaker kit with all the upgrades! Outstanding!
Danny is one of the good guys in the business, a true credit to audio indeed!
With low end audio it makes sence. Cost cutting is a major factor. As the price goes up there comes a point where it's more about what you do with the component than how much it costs. There is a lot of experience and knowledge that goes into a speakers design.
You could always say that swapping exactly the same parts for higher quality on a crossover for example will improve the overall sound However the same could be said with the rest of system too.
If you enjoy the process, than DIY is worth it. Sometimes we just like to have our own signature things.
I have had, and am having so much fun designing, building, testing, redesigning etc etc my own stuff...
@bvocal
That's awesome. There's no better value in audio than DIY.
However there are many people that just don't have the time or interest to do so. Or they may have other hobbies that are priorities. For those people, such as many of my friends, they just want to "pay and play", which is fine as well.
I have been building and designing speakers since I was 13 years old. I never buy aftermarket speakers. Btw I am 52 yo and I am still doing it.
What're the best-sounding speakers you've ever built. Is it possible to get $10,000 speaker sound for $1,000?
@@paulkrasner Don't know about a $1,000 but for $3,000 you should do it easy. My last set of store bought speakers were $14k, I now listen to DIY speakers that are superior. I probably spent around the same kind of money going active, but it is a far superior sound to the store bought speakers, that used cheaper drivers and are passive.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering Your absolutely correct.... search Kangsound on google and i built a few large JBL 43xx speakers for 3-4K and used a fully active setup.... all the specs are online and anyone can do it...
@@kangsound2658 you have something that looks like a slot loaded horn, what are they about?
@@paulkrasner Yeah, probably need to go up to about $3000 to get a $10K speaker.
Curt Campbell and Jim Holtz, Bordeaux speaker will certainly surpass a $10K speaker for about $3K.
Not to mention designs by Danny Ritchie and Troels Graveson and others.
18:55 That wire next to him just came to life!!!
It’s a solid core wire, they do that.
This video earned you a Subscriber. And a future customer. I will purchase this kit (or upgrade) in June. Wish I could do it now, but I'm 3-4 projects deep in addition to the real world of a job interfering with the good stuff! I have my own CNC, so I appreciate the detailed plans on your site.
Hi there. First of all thanks for the video.
I've build some speakers myself and recently exchanged my last DIY-Speakers for a new of-the-shelf solution, that is very hard to beat for DIY, but that's a different story.
The thing with DIY is, that you have to make a clear distinction between pre-designed kits you can assemble yourself and a fully self engineered speaker.
The first one is just some sort of Lego for Hifi-Enthusiasts, the second needs some serious experience and equipment, that an average Joe has no access to and that would completely ruin any price-ratio.
Self assembly is also not trivial.
If you get your cabinets pre-cut, with all holes drilled and machined it will be not as cheap as you think. (at least here in Germany)
Same goes for soldering your crossovers. You need the tools and the skill and the biggest factor is time, that is just left out of the equation in some parts of the DIY-Community.
But even if you manage all that, you just have a wooden box without any finish that may not really accommodate your living room. Getting a good finish is a hard thing and the wife acceptance factor is real.
Auditioning a DIY-Speaker in your room beforehand can be difficult and in the end you will only find out how it sounds, after you've built that thing and it could possibly be crap, because speakers can be crap, even DIY ones.
DIY is only cheaper if you just look at the materials.
(Keep in mind that a big company will pay a fraction of the price for the parts, the labor and the equipment, because they produce on a much larger scale - on top you will get some sort of warranty or money-back-guarantee if you are not happy)
If you treat it as a hobby or passion or you want to build something very exotic, than DIY can be an option.
But assuming that some guy on the internet can develop a speaker that will outperform and be cheaper than a comparable speaker of a professional company with a high level of expertise and equipment is a fallacy in my book.
Some DIY Speakers can sound fantastic (usually these types ar not cheap and not so easy to build), just as some pre-built speakers can.
If you really want to up your bang for the money game forget all the cable nonsense and take a look at the pro-audio market and check out some entry level studio monitors from JBL, Yamaha, KRK and the like. You can get a very decent setup for your money, that is really hard to beat price-wise, even with DIY in mind.
(Or look out for second hand speakers; last generation top tier speakers can be found for cheap and second hand DIY-Speakers can be had for even less, because the resale value is usually awful, because people prefer brands)
A few decades ago, I used to work in a shop that was set up to do A/B demos of speakers that customers brought in against various higher-end brand name speakers that the company either had available used, or a few of the most common for sale new, and the rest available to order. I felt sorry for, even embarrassed for, most of the DIY'ers who came in all proud to show us the superiority of their builds. With few exceptions, there were obvious sonic problems that had not been identified or solved with the very limited understanding, do-it-yourself guides and calculations, etc., that had been employed. This shop also sold DIY speaker components, crossovers, etc. for those who wanted to go that route, however. The speaker components had the same kinds of profit margins applied to them as the speaker systems. In fact, the margins were often even higher on these components, meaning that even a lower percentage of every retail dollar was making it back into the construction and materials. My major takeaway from those experiences was that, all the criticisms and imagination in the DIY community notwithstanding, when actual A/B demonstrations were done and not just theoretical numbers or graphs put up that were supposed to sound superior, DIY results rarely stood against the best that the major names could engineer and build for the same money. Another lesson from it was that more money and the "right" company reputation were no guarantors of better sound. We hated to see the occasional customer show up with certain Radio Shack bookshelf speakers. They were generating some significant results for the money with those, mostly in Taiwan in those days, and it was common for customers to leave surprised and pleased with those cheap speakers that they already owned against the best American or European alternatives that we could offer within 3x the price and size. Sometimes large-scale production can mean reduced secondary and tertiary costs and a little more money going into components if the company isn't just focused on being as cheap or as profitable for shareholders as possible (at any cost to the product). I totally agree with your point about the real place to look being the pro market, but you have to know enough or learn enough to understand what you're buying there because the purposed engineering is much more specific than in consumer products. (In those same experiences mentioned above, my enthusiasm for JBL was curbed significantly by some of their price vs. performance weaknesses at the time, though they were better on the pro side.)
@@ReflectedMiles
Very interesting insight and great read. I just love it when someone knowledgeable and passionate about Hi-Fi shares his experience and is rational about it - This is something that is, surprisingly in this age of easily accessable information, very needed.
To me DIY-loudspeaker is a market, just like Hi-Fi in general is, so the same rules apply, but the general consensus within the scene (at least on what I've picked up by talking to enthusiasts and sellers on- and offline) seems to be, that this isn't the case and every company of pre-built speakers is trying to rip you off.
Same goes for the pro-market.
In regards to JBL, I'm just stunned that they are able to produce a speaker with an amp inside for about 100 bucks that is actually very decent.
Whether you like the way a certain monitor is presenting music is, as you've stated, very personal and a studio monitor remains a loudspeaker with the same limitations, compromises and differences that all loudspeakers share. It is a label/marketing term that is not standardized and can mean anything or nothing.
At least there is, imho, less overload of audiophile/esoteric concepts in the Pro-market, because it is harder to sell this stuff to the group of people that it is aimed at.
@@ReflectedMiles completely agree with all that except, perhaps going down the active studio monitor route. Studio monitors are designed to sound honest, hi-fi is designed to sound good. I have a pair of Mackie HR624's, and they are great as studio monitors because they have an extremely flat frequency response; they are very honest. But in terms of listening pleasure they don't compare to my TDL3's driven by an old Technics SUA900, which really bring the music to life. And these two setups were roughly in the same price range. Just my two-penceworth.
Uncommon Sense I don’t think I addressed active studio monitors. The pro market is its own animal and it confuses audiophiles to no end who don’t have the relevant training and experience. That’s why I wrote that someone has to really know, or learn from pros, what they are doing for that to be a great place to look. For example, there is a large semi-pro market aimed at musicians that has some really cheap junk in it as well as some decent alternatives to the HiFi consumer market in certain things. I don’t know any engineers personally who would regard Mackie as a pro name, for example. A few on the sound-reinforcement side of the business might recommend certain models for stage monitors in certain situations, but that’s about it. There are some inherent problems with amps inside speaker enclosures in pro applications. For a local band or church use, etc., they can be fine, but for unsponsored pro gigs with massive and precise demands for performance, there will likely be a rack of amps nearby instead. (Sometimes there has to be, hidden from view, even if sponsored.) HiFi is, of course, short for “high fidelity.” In theory, at least, that would mean accuracy rules, but I am well aware of the packaged deception of everything from the creation of the signal to the dominance of personal preference and the use of playback components as instruments rather than as reproducers. That is the whole point of A/B listening comparisons done for the average consumer. Leslie (organ speakers) built a whole company and legacy on that concept. The last thing you want from organ and many guitar speakers is fidelity. Sometimes that’s the last thing you want in a whole genre of music and that can present a rather bizarre engineering challenge. There was a lot of angst back in the day when most engineers saw rock-and-roll and its follow-ons as auditory obscenities.
@@ReflectedMiles ah, my bad, when you said "forget all the cable nonsense and take a look at the pro-audio market" I interpreted that to mean active studio monitors, where you're not using speaker cable. You may be right that the Mackie's aren't found in many recording studios, I honestly couldn't say, but they were definitely made for that market, and they're a good speaker for that purpose. If you have £1000 to spend (the price of a pair of Mackies) I dare say you have some pretty good choices for amp + speakers in the hi-fi market.
Great video! Loved the breakdown of what it costs to manufacture a speaker, very interesting. I did not go total DIY on my speakers. I picked up a beautiful set of Infinity RS-6 Kappa speakers. Then stripped out and replaced the crossovers, wiring, and drivers. Thanks for another great video Danny!
Great presentation. Now you need to get someone like Steve Gutenberg to bring people your way. Many years ago I volunteered to be a room monitor at an audio conference so that the vendors could get out and about and see the other rooms. There was a nice guy there that had some model speakers and was trying to get funding to start a speaker manufacturing company. He sketched out plans, drivers and crossover for me and told me to feel free to build the speakers and I did. I've had them for 20 years.
Can we have that info please? Would love to build it...
@@bobmcmillen5298 I would, but for two things. 1) He specifically told me I could use the design for my own use. He's now passed away, so that probably doesn't matter. 2) The tweeter he used has been out of manufacture for many years now. I would say that the TriTrix MTM Tl design by Curt Campbell is very close with the offset tweeter.
@@ttownscott what if I promised not to share it with anyone? I can find the tweeter eventually one way or another
@@bobmcmillen5298 Sure. I added email to my youtube 'channel'. go ahead and message me with your email. I'll scan the plan and send you a photo of my completed speakers too.
Danny only covered half the equation. We pay 2-5x the price for parts compared with manufacturers (do you really think a Chinese factory pays the same price for cable or MDF as a DIYer in NY, for example?) So their $200 parts bill can become a $600 parts bill for the DIYer for the same parts. For really cheap speakers, it can cost the DIYer even more to build than to buy new. DIY can be a real money saver but generally only when competing with more expensive speakers (>$1,000).
also 100% margins are insane - no retail store is actually even trying to get that. try 30% at best.
You are right. Even the small niche manufacturers get parts for about 30% of retail. Super large manufacturers pay less than 10% of retail. So a $100 tweeter will cost B&W or Focal maybe $20. Bose’s 301 woofer retails for about $30 but they pay $3. That’s their buying power since that woofer is custom made for them.
I've looked at commercial designs that use the same drivers as in kits and the kits are a lot cheaper. Can't compare the crossover parts though.
I was comparing Joseph Audio speakers that use Seas drivers and Madisound kits with the same drivers.
@@brandonkerr160 I work at hifi store and its actually 40% plus tax. Retail price of lets say definitive technology bp 9080 is around 2k each so 4k a pair. As a employee I could buy it for 1k plus 5% because company policy. And we are buying from distributor that also makes money on it. And manufactuer also needs to make money on it etc
A very Honest video.No try to sell it just try to help us .Thank you Bless you All>greets From the Netherlands
WOW! I'm so happy I ran into your video. Your delivery is clear, non-verbosic, and your facial features read that to the best of your knowledge, what you are saying is true. You are a rare presenter.
You explanation of the retail market was amazing and by that, could you tell me which DIY companies you like. I have used Parts Express but not for enclosures. Please answer or make a video giving the same way you talked about the Chinese fecal line-up. I can't wait to watch your archive videos. Thanx for being there and sharing your body of knowledge. 5 Stars
TD Hanson
By far one of the biggest factors in making a speaker soymd as good as it can must be the enclosure design, which should be matched to suit the ts parameters of the drivers. Quality of parts is.important, but my understanding is the better components wont make much difference without a good box design. Also obviously, good speakers only sound good with a good audio signal path and quality amplification. Ive built and designed a couple of large 3 way floor standing speakers using pa and hifi compoments, driven from an old pa power amp with a hifi preamp and the results blew me away. I love speaker design and maybe getting a really good amplifier and reciever setup to keep will be a good place to reach in order to then experiment with and swap new speakers.
I DIY and mod things as much as I possibly can to upgrade, but without messing up performance of the component. I DIY’d my phono pre for $800, instead of paying $3,500 for the real deal. I prefer it to the real deal anyway. DIYing is the way to go for sure. Not to mention, the satisfaction you get out of that component working well for you. You most likely end up loving that piece of gear or spkrs more if ya make em yourself.
Danny is the man. Great guy to work with and his designs always sound tremendous. He speaks the truth when he says his designs are a cut above production speakers available (that he didn’t design).
I love DIY products, absolute bang for the bucks, but only one drawback, resale value of the product!!
Very true, I’m fairly new to “audiophile” grade equipment but one of the best things about the hobby is the deal and I feel like this gets lost in DIY. Maybe that only pertains to me because I’m broke 🤣
DIY is worth it if you know you'll enjoy the process of building it
You really did a great job breaking down why a $1000 mass produced speaker can have crappy parts
Some sandcast resistors are actually pretty decent. I've used the sandcast Dayton resistors to no ill-effect, and thermal drift isn't really an issue unless you're absolutely cranking the snot out of them. Mills resistors are a bit better in terms of thermal drift, at three times the cost.
The difference in sound quality is very evident.
i definitely look forward to doing some diy speakers. keep up the great work and thanks for the enlightenning videos
Danny couldn't be any more accurate here.
With a bit of time and effort, you could end up with a speaker that outperforms commercially available speakers at a 5th the cost.
I've been DIYing from kits for years (including assisting a friend with a pair of Danny's kits), and the results are always better than what can be purchased for a fraction of the $$.
Great VID!
This video NAILED it for exactly why i won't buy Manufactured speakers any more. People assume that the company has been around for decades that the "name" Brand is good, but when you look inside the speaker "Klipsch" it's actually JUNK shit crap parts inside. BUT people think it sounds good and is good because of the name :( so sad!! Good video sir !! Keep these up !
Brilliant, love it. Bit pricey for me in Australia for freight of the cabinets, but very nice from what I can see...
Danny! I just found your channel, and I have watched several of your videos, and I must say I am extremely impressed! I plan on watching your videos, after finding this one on DYI speaker building, you seem really down to earth and a no bullshit kind of guy! Keep up the good work! 10 Thumbs Up[!
Retailer margins for non-DIY are usually much smaller than 2x - esp for budget-mid fi and expected 'discounts'.
Very true
Usually add a distributor in mix mix too, though. Especially for international brands.
Great video and very useful information. I've told people for years that DIY is the way to go for most situations if you have the time/tools to do so. Thanks for putting this out
Nice! Thanks, Danny. I loved doing my DIY speakers.. Tons of fun and quite easy . 👍
Danny thanks for the video. Will leave links to the two people you spoke about the one guy finishing cabinets and the other doing flat packs.
You are correct. It is a 5 to 1 ration. A one doller product will cost you 5 dollars at retail. DIY makes sense when you want a 10K pair of speakers for 2K. I am looking at 5K kit or 25K retail.
Very informative. I was looking at some vintage speakers for my Marantz 4400, but now I am considering a kit with perhaps some period correct grill material. Thank you for the video.
What was the music at the beginning?
DIY is definitely worth it. I am a big proponent: you are in control what you want and what you make. You have fun in the process, and satisfaction with final results. Not to mention saved money. Go for it!
I have found your channel. This is an awesome, & very educational as well. I will be buying a kit. To make my own.
You sir have a new subscriber. Have a great Thanksgiving, & Merry Christmas too.
Looks great.Good components and good execution from experienced experts.
I own a pair of DIY speakers. They have a Fountek neoCd 3.5h ribbon twitter and two Peerless 8inch drivers each. The cost is around 900euros and they are build by a local professional speaker maker, so they are not exactly home diy. I can say is that they sound like much more expensive speakers. So diy, if you have someone with knowledge and can help you, is very good because all the money goes to the drivers, the cables, the crossover, the box. No taxes, no retailer profit or shipping costs. You get what you pay for. Aftermarket choices have the benefit of better finish quality and maybe more technology behind the box or crossover.
Danny, this is a great video and what i am looking is on building a tower speaker and what are youre recomendation and would like to have the upgrades as well can you be able to help me with this . and do you have a video on how the speakers sound ??
thank you
great vid - is it worth mentioning the 3rd route? - making a diy speaker from scratch to an existing design - essentially the same as your option 1 with more involvement in the woodwork. downside to diy - resale value.
I knew a lot of what was covered in this but to hear it said out loud backed-up with pictures did make me give my head a shake. Good video, subscribed. 🤗
Great video! Thanks for posting.
Great topic!😎😁
I built the Seas Odin with Millennium drivers with upgraded crossover and hi quality components by Joe D’Appolito in 2003 and have been enjoying them for many many hours. $1400.00 for materials. Snell had the same speaker for $5000.00, Avalon and Joseph Audio also have similar configurations all above $5k. The only way to go. DIY
Buying DIY you still have to pay a mark up to the retailer, who pays a markup to the distributor, who pays a markup to the factory. So the $50 woofer you bought likely was built for $10, same ratio as the commercial product example. Still, your points remain very valid in whole, but going DIY isn't always going to provide the best value, especially if the drivers and networks are not matched well.
Keep the videos coming, I am thoroughly enjoying them!
seize the means of woofer production
We don't have middle men, distributors, or dealers. And we have our drivers made in large quantities. So there is much less mark up on our drivers than you see in the rest of the industry.
@@dannyrichie9743 That's good to hear. I will be keeping you guys in mind for sure on my next DIY build.
Great video. I wish you had a thin, tall floor stander with MTM design using your tweeters and your 130mm drivers with say a total of 4 side firing woofers of 6.5” - 7” diameter range. Say, 42” tall, 7”-8” wide and 18-20” deep. Kinda like the Audio Physic designs. 🤔🤔
I built one of your kits years ago and they sound pretty good. I wish the flat-packs were available then. I destroyed my brother in laws old router. As far as copper wiring is concerned I do not believe the molecule structure changes in China or the USA. Our ears are connected to our brain and that makes listening tests anecdotal at best. Speaker companies have 'economies of scale' something like your ability to buy the large stock of woofers. I love Harbeth speakers and Alan Shaw (the owner and designer ..and electrical engineer) would refute most of your sonic claims. I do not have 16K so I build my speakers from kits from the usual suspects of which you are a part of. I enjoyed building your speaker kit and your service was excellent. Great seeing you on video. Cheers!
Thanks for purchasing from us. I appreciate that and your feedback.
As far as Copper wire from the US or China goes. I know from experience and independent metallurgic test that most of what comes out of China is 94 to 96% Copper. The reason being is a lot of it is recycled. And swapping out a Chinese made inductor for a US made inductor from a company like Erse makes a notable improvement.
I also have dozens of different cables over here and it is actually harder to find two different types, brands, or configurations that sound the same than anything else. They all sound a little bit to a lot different.
And a lot of what we've learned in A/B comparisons of wire has made our speakers better.
Funny thing is a customer just posted a picture of one of the Harbeth crossovers in my forum at the Audio Circle. The picture certainly says a lot about the beliefs of the designer and explains why they sound the way they sound. www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156605.msg1767176#msg1767176
Definitely worth it. You just pay for cabinets when you buy finished speakers. The actual parts cost very little unless they are compression drivers
Loving my Xls Encores
Well I made up some nice open baffles a few years ago for about $150 for the pair. If you play your cards right you can do very well indeed.
How in the world does the jacket material of a wire contribute or take away from conductivity of the copper wire and/or relates to sound quality!?
Because the purchasers are audiophiles and the seller is in the business of making money.
How does it not? The differences are often fairly significant. Even the color of the dielectric material can have an effect due to the materials used to make the dye.
Capacitance. I used to work for a Radiation Therapy & Dosimetry manufacturer and the extremely high resistance of feedback resistor used in the amplifier circuit for the Ion chamber probes were glass encased that required the use of gloves to handle because if you touched the glass the flow of current would travel through your finger oil left on the glass rather than through the the glass-encased resistor and blow the accuracy of the gain circuit for that amp.
James Miller But the human body has less impedance and capacitance than plastic does. So what you’re saying makes sense, sort of like in a Tesla’s coil encased in glass when you touch it. But PVC jacketed wire has an unmeasurable amount of impedance and capacitance.
@@jamesmiller7278 That is quite a departure from audio signals, though.
Amazing video and a great resource. Thank you :)
Hi Danny, I own a pair of Bronz 2 Bookshelf speakers Manufactured by Monitor Audio. Is there an upgrade video for these speakers. Your videos are easy to understand and work on. Thanks.
Top equipment , i'd love to buy....will inform about shipmentcost to europ...and importtaxess
"Never buy factory speakers!" could have been a better title.
There are plenty of reasons to buy factory speakers. Advanced materials and construction techniques, proprietary technologies and drivers, resale value, etc.
Thanks for another great video.
The first five minutes could really be summed up as "For retail to stay in business, they need a 100% markup, it's just the way the industry works, and so everything is built to a much lower price point than you'd expect to cover everyone's margins".
"Here's our kit", that's marked up 100%?
@@Excalibur1201 Seems to be more than 110%, if he makes net profit of 10% (his comment below) and he includes the cost of buying new stock into that calculation (and operating costs etc.)
There are still fewer middle man involved though, so still worth it.
edit: Maybe he didn't count the cost of the original stock?
Can you practise by upgrading existing speaker cabinets as in the speaker parts themselves of an existing speaker?
Most speakers can be upgraded. We upgrade several pairs a week.
One problem with DIY is there is little guarantee you'll like the end product. Most DIYers will not have access to audition the same design elsewhere before deciding to pull the trigger on a kit, etc. Then there's the challenge of finish. I know I can clamp together some panels but when it comes to application of veneers I'm clueless, so I'd have to factor in the cost of paying a local craftsman to do that portion. And I'd have to hope the guy doesn't fudge it up.
I once ordered a pair of factory-direct speakers that came with very expensive drivers. I figured I'd be getting better value than any retail-market speaker just for the fact that it was a small company that cuts out distribution cost. Well, unfortunately, the finished product was so atrocious that I had to send them right back. The crossover had come loose from the cabinet in both speakers and of the screws that held the crossover access panel in place, only two of them were long enough to screw into the adjacent panel. The Crossover coils were loose on the boards - they had been secured by much too long bolts (for air-core inductors??). Instead of using the correct length, this designer stacked a bunch of washers on one end. The veneer finish was pathetic compared to any $300 pair, yet these speakers cost over $4K!
My point here is that there are real advantages to buying speakers through traditional channels, even for some like myself who are not afraid of DIY assembly. I have no doubt that I could get better performance from the right DIY project, for the same price as some of my retail-market pairs, but is the difference so great that it'd be worth foregoing any warranty, or being stuck with poor resale value if I decide to move them on? Or is it even worth the risk that I might hate the sound once assembled?
I really like the factory-direct model for value if it's done right, with high quality product.
Interesting thoughts.
Like any speaker there is no guarantee that you'll like the end result. But in the case of the speaker used in the example (the X-LS Encore kit) you can get guaranteed results. It is a professionally designed model with hundreds of them out there, tons of online feedback, awards , and speaker shoot outs that have been won.
There is a warranty with our kits. If any of our drivers fail for any reason that doesn't involve a burned voice coil then we take care of it. And to be honest, we don't have driver failures.
And resale value is usually greater than the cost of the kit.
And there are so many of these around that there might even be some in your area that you can hear. Our customers love showing off their systems.
Still it is a DIY kit. You have to like the do it yourself aspect, or have someone to help you get it done.
Finishing isn't something people are going to learn overnight. As someone who restores/refinishes antiques, furniture, and firearms... finishing wood, applying veneer, and applying a nice looking coat of varnish can be quite a headache. For inexperienced people, i'd recommend painting speaker cabinets. Once the box is built, sand to 180 grit and do a bondo skim coat to fill any imperfections. Sand that back and use a good primer... sand... and recoat.If you dont have an air compressor and HVLP gun, i'd go with SprayMax 2k spray cans. 2k paint is a two part coating that consist of the paint and an activator. (think epoxy glue). 2k paint can leave an amazing finish and best of all since it is 2-part, it dries/cures super fast and are extremely durable. The spray max cans have both components. You smack a button on the bottom of the can for them to mix.
Here is a Tapered Quarter-Wave Pipe speaker i just finished building. I built it using Baltic Birch plywood (better than MDF) and finished it using dark walnut Transtint dye followed by a half dozen coats of General Finishes Arm-R-Seal oil based Varnish. imgur.com/gVKF2Yb
Tip, using epoxy with filler gives a much better contact to each panel. A small difference but worthwhile. I use marine epoxies.
Looks like fun. One question…. Any way for somebody to make them into active speakers?
Really good video! You are a great guy
wonderful idea. Can you make a flat pack kit for klipsch la scala speakers?
Most speaker brands only develop and spend money on their new stuff. and then the drives trickle down their product lines. Currently KEF R series use the Uni-Q driver version 12 yet the Reference and blades use the version 11 that's many years old. did not see anywhere that they plan to update their drivers anytime soon...
I'd be more concerned with them updating their crossovers.
Can you please assemble all these things and show what it can perform?
difficult due to the ability of the equipment on your end, BUT he could compare them to speakers you have heard before so you can sense a difference.
@@gendaminoru3195 I was thinking more using a program to show the frequency response and waterfall. Like they regularly do to show a speakers performance, although it does not convey everything, you get a rough idea of how well the system works.
Yeah I'm sure Danny is more than happy to. You won't meet a nicer guy in this business.
I was believing most of what you were saying until you claimed that the polyethylene insulated wire provided “much better sound quality” than pvc insulated wire. You then blew all your credibility. (I am a retired electronics engineer and audiophile with 19 US patents).
Colleges and I have made those listening comparisons many times, and we've spent a huge amount of time and resources listening, and quantifying those differences. The dielectric material has a very notable difference in how it sounds. Degrees and patents aren't listening tests.
@@dannyrichie9743 That's a remarkable claim, one which if proven would change the world of science and electronics forever. But no, you're a commenter on RUclips. Audio signals are one of the most trivial signals you can send over wire. Hilariously trivial. If the sheathing mattered at all to an audio signal, you could prove it with an oscilloscope.
@@sjwright2 We've confirmed clear and repeatable differences from listening. And we've got the same results using many different groups and systems. Most of us in this industry have already accepted that those differences are a given from our experiences.
That’s not what he said. He was talking about the quality of the copper as well.
Howard Leopold Yes, that’s complete BS. I have always said there is no file more abrasive than the audiophile. The crap goes even deeper than wire insulation, believe it or not. Wisdom such as orienting your power amplifier to the magnetic field of the earth, the superior sound resulting from $1000 IEC AC line cords with the exact same connectors as industry standard $15 items, and on and on. There are people who think we didn’t land on the moon, that the earth is flat. Opining loudly on a subject of which you know very little is a curiously common human failure. It makes for good satire.
I do DIY for fun, shits and giggles. Wavecor Needle, 871 Needle, FRS8M needle, folded Viech center, half a dozen Onkens, no premade speakers since 2004. Still need to replace my Visaton Portraits with thin speakers for my desktop, any recommendations let me know. Or just some really thin woofers, that would help too.
And because what I want cannot be bought, 4cm thick stone rainwater drainpipe, 80cm high and 30cm diameter, 45 kilo, talk about a proper subwoofer.
I just wish i could slightly improve my bookshelf boston acoustics with out replacing the crossovers or sending them to Gr myself.Any ideas?,Ive removed the inside white cotton.Improved the mids noticebly.open to easy suggestions.? Thanks.
Hello how are you. What is the anti resonance paint for the inside of the cabinet's you spoke about. This is a very good video 😀.
I have some JBL L50 10" ported 3-way. Should I upgrade the caps to poly? Upgrade the resistors to mills? I've already change out the original caps, but I used electrolytic. Would I notice a difference in clarity upgrading the components in these 40 year old speakers?
@Dirk Knight I totally hear ya Brother Dirk Knight, and I'm with ya on the bullshit of audio crossover upgrades for the most part. The thing is, I've tried the space age technology speakers with the unobtanium tweeters and the carbon fiber woofers injected with unicorn farts (for faster bass :) Don't forget the over- braced cabinets with zero resonance, and mirror finish. I've also listened to many of my friends systems of even higher caliber than my budget could stand. At the end of the day none of it sounded as good to my ears, as my long gone 70's era Pioneer/JBL setup I jammed back in the early 80's. So I went out and purchased something close. Sent the receiver off to a pro for minor repairs, and I refoamed the drivers, recapped the crossovers (with Dayton electrolytic) and replaced the tweeters with a Peerless 1-1/8" silk dome. I've even tested each driver with DATS V3 to make sure they were up to snuff, and all but the original tweeters surpassed expectations (as most vintage drivers do). After some room tweeking the whole setup sounds exactly as I remembered, and I regularly get compliments from friends and family who've heard it. In the above post, I asked Danny about the crossover upgrades just to hear his opinion. Nothing more than that. I didn't realize I was gonna get trolled by the "Newer is always better" section :P Just kidding brother
@Dirk Knight Reasonably priced high end vintage gear is my favorite style in Hifi. In both sound and looks. I'm well off, but I don't have dirty politician money. Nothing looks more out of place than a set of B&W Nautilus or 6ft tall Legacys in the average living room..........or maybe I'm just jealous. It could be that too
Great video? Do you guys sale them fully assemble
I try not to do a lot of assembly work. I just don't have the time for it. But I can direct you to guys Mike Mike Lundy that can build them out for you. www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=164355.0
How does a company like Bic America make such nice speakers and sell them for so cheap? I just bought two tower speakers (PL-89) and got them delivered to my door for $225 each. They have a higher model (PL-980) and you can get them delivered for $330 each. I was shocked at how good they performed for the price.
how can i buy your speaker kits thanks very good video
I'm drinking the cool aid, I will order soon
You won’t regret it
@@Newrecordday2013 Maybe you can help. I have been digging for a good video on assembling the X-LS Encore crossover but can't find one. The GR Research video is not filmed or explained well and Randy's at Cheap Audio Man isn't clear either. Any suggestions? I'd love to give it a try but ...
I was just looking up some videos of these speakers to show my girlfriend them, didn't realize that my grandfather's work would be shown (Peter). Small world eh.
I saw the title in the thumbnail & automatically thought: Naturally & obviously it's worth it as manufactures are just folk who did it themselves but had to put on big mark-up prices for them & the delegated mass production workers to live off & feed their fanilies. & selling through the middle men with a doubling(?) mark-up ...& all the other reasons told here like cost-cutting & often greedily. Quality of work we put it together with is all we need to think about with good kits like this while we save a small fortune & get the best sound per Pound (we say in u.k.) best hollor per Dollar? best hearer for your Lira ...err
I was wondering what your view is on monitors versus hi-fi? I generally feel the biggest difference is the design for monitors or near field speakers lends itself to the listener being between 1 to 3 meters maximum with the speakers being placed closer to a wall whereas hi-fi speakers are generally design for the listener to be 3 meters or greater away from the speakers and also a greater distance from a wall. Certain hi-fi manufacturers have tuned their enclosures to take advantage of the speakers placement to a wall of even the corner of a room.
Do you guys offer a DIY kit or other designs that would fall closer to the professional recording market? I mean if I could build the equivalent of say a set of Focal near fields or perhaps similar two way or three way monitors, active or passive, without breaking the bank, that would be a win.
BTW, I’ve seen several comments to the Yamaha NS-10s mentioned in the comments. These speakers made their debut in the recording industry as a way to give engineers to judge what their mixes would sound like on the average Joe’s home speakers. I have recorded and mixed with these many times. They are great for quick references but long exposure using them just caused me listening fatigue, no matter how much tissue paper was draped over the tweeters and often caused my bass response to either be overhyped because they didn’t produce low frequencies well enough or I tried to compensate for the poor low frequency representation and found too little detail in the low frequencies.
First of all you are correct about the Yamaha's. I have designed an upgrade for them and have about eight studio's using the upgraded version. See it here: www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=144300.0
And yes, I have designed a top level studio monitor. See the original design and build thread here: www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=160647.msg1713826#msg1713826
Best way to advertise your own products!
The vast majority of people now have a much lower reference point imo due to listening through their devices (my brain explodes when I hear people saying their phone/iPad speakers get “pretty loud”). The market seems to be heavily influenced by what’s socially acceptable (Europeans tend to prefer much less bass compared to Americans) and it’s not as much about fidelity anymore (ie beats by Dre, anything Bluetooth and portable). I’m convinced that cognitive bias toward powerful marketing strategy is more of an influence to the average person over their ability to differentiate quality audio reproduction. In short, most do not have the ear to even decide what is or isn’t a decent system (sonos be damned).
There have been a number of comments that a problem with DIY speakers is the lack of resale value. I would say that you lose a lot less with high quality DIY speakers than with most, if not the vast majority of commercial speakers.
When you sell a pair of speakers you can expect to get around half of what they cost new. Therefore, you could expect to get $1,500 for speakers that cost $3,000 new. That’s a loss of $1,500.
If you put $1,000 into a pair of speakers like the X-LS Encores Danny talks about in this video, you get speakers that easily matche if not exceed the performance of those $3,000 speakers. If you later sell the DIY speakers for half what you had in them, you would lose $500. That means you came out $1,000 ahead with the DIY speakers vs the commercial speakers. For that matter, you could give the DIY speakers away for nothing and still be $500 better off than with the commercial speakers.
To address the issue of “but are DIY speakers really able to perform as well as substantially more expensive commercial speakers?” At an audio show earlier this year, a pair of X-LS Encores with all the upgrades Danny had to offer were compared head to head with a new pair of commercial speakers retailing for $7,500. The consensus was the Encores more than held their own.
i was considering a pair of Klipsch rp600s... this has me thinking i coudl do better with a DIY kit. anyone have experience, or know a DIY forum I could hit up to compare DIY kits to the RP600s?
Everything we offer is well above those in performance. www.gr-research.com/
I will love to do it one Day for fun of it and attachment to the speakers from day one...
I live in Europe, what do i do?
Probably I should have a look on this guy's website.
I'm looking for a pair of good sub-woofers to complement my speakers, but everything decent on the market seems so overly priced.
This bloke did a good explanation how the consumer market price point is made up.
But I really think that with some consumer electronics it is even worse, that $1000,- phone might not even cost $100,- to produce, including labour, machine cost and R&D. Why is it that a certain model phone suddenly sells for a bit over half the RRP when a new model is launched?
I don't think that the retailer puts a 100% profit margin when they sell say a pair of decent branded speakers, but i might be wrong about that. The large speaker producers have have long term, large volume contracts with their mostly Chinese suppliers. I have seen drops from 41 US$ for 100 units, down to 26 US$ for 10,000 units and the manufacturers does not work with 100% profit margin. I think that it is unrealistic to expect to get the equivalent quality of a pair of 2,000 US$ speakers, when spending 50 US$ on components. Don't get me wrong, I am not against DIY and I am about to build a pair in the near future and the components cost a tad over US$ 700 and I will probably spend around US$ 300 on the casing. If the result can match, including the finishing of the casing, a US$ 3,000 pair of branded speakers, then I am happy. An added bonus is the fun of building the speakers and this is the main motivation for my project.
I'm starting to research this as I want to build a set of three-way powered studio monitors that I could EQ for recreational listening as well. I will probably want between 200 - 300 total RMS for each speaker. These will be running off of my computer that I use for my sound/video editing. do you have any packages that fit this guesstimate? I'd like to go with the flat-pack method on the enclosures. Do you have any input on this? Thanks, Paul. P.S. These would be connected via XLR.
I've got a rich man's taste for sound quality with a beer drinker wallet :-)
That's a nice open basket on that woofer.
Check out Vifa NE180W and others in that series. hificompass.com/en/catalog/speakers/woofers/vifa-ne180w-04-65-woofer
5:23 what kind of resistors should you use?
10-15 years ago diy was wheres its at. These days it still is versus retail, however there are some crazy deals on used stuff these days if you are patient and check often. Just saw some sell a pair of Klipsch Chorus II for $200. Even if you had to recap and do upgrades your not touching that performance for under $1000 diy.
There are areas we look for in high end audio such as image layering, soundstage depth, and transparency, and speakers like those come up way short in those areas. So it depends on what you are looking for.
I love this I wanna try it.....
Hello Loved your video and wanted to purchase a kit. A link below is a dead link and was wondering if that was the link I needed. Thank you for your time. Darryl Hubbard
Sorry, but I don't buy it. Maybe if you have the time and skill to build your own cabinets then it's worthwhile, but there's no way it's going to be cheaper than buying a premade set of speakers if you're going to pay someone else to build cabinets for you. When you buy completely built speakers, the manufacturer will have tooling that significantly decreases the cost of building and finishing cabinets. The manufacturers have deals with shippers that significantly decreases their freight costs (and that's assuming you're buying from one of the few standalone hifi stores that are still around. If you're purchasing from a chain or one of the big online companies, they get deliveries to their central warehouse by container, and then to individual stores by their own trucks. Their shipping prices per unit are extremely low). Now of course, comparing with a a pair of super-high-end speakers with huge markups is different, but in general having a set of custom cabinets made will eat up any savings you've realized by purchasing the driver kit.
This pitch is similar to the ones used by MLMs; supposed to be saving money by eliminating the retail chain. Well, the retail chain has been optimized to reduce all relevant costs to as low as they can practically go. Same thing applies here.
I design products for companies that offer completed speakers just like you mentioned. Because of dealer mark ups you can still get more bang for your buck in the DIY market even if someone builds you cabinets.
There is a intermittent high pitched noise coming through on your audio of this video. Not sure where the issue lies, but it is not on my end. It's up above the 10k mark and it is annoying. Other than that, I appreciate the detailed presentation. I am looking to go DIY in the near future. Thanks!
Dammit, I'm sold. Time to bust out the credit card!
Not everyone has 3-4000$ to spend on DIY speakers tho..
I believe that for a person who just started listening more seriously to music, has a pricerange on their intro-speakers of around 1000$ , and if you're buying DALI, that can actually yield some good floorspeakers with no need to buy subwoofer.
Buying DIY speakers for 4000$ or there around, is just not an option unless you have access to a good woodworking station, soldering equipment and experience in building.
I've build my fair share of speakers and now when i don't have access to a carpenterstation, there's no point to
buy those speakers anymore because the end result would be suffering greatly without access to the right equipment for building.
You forget to mention that parts are for a diy-er tree times as high as for a company. My view is that you pay half the money of a factorymodel for a diy kit. It is however not viable for low end like below $100 per piece. Compare it to soup, homemade is much better than a can but it can't be made as cheap as the lowest price cans.
That’s just nonsense. The fact they get good pricing does not mean they are a charity, they are a business and deserve to make a profit. And trust me, they do.
By the way, they won’t have the purchasing power of B&W or any large manufacturer.
They have a mark up. All you save if the cost of finishing and cost of shipping a larger speaker box vs just shipping drivers
I have worked for a loudspeaker factory: Celestion and Kef in Ipswich UK. Yep, a manufacturer is looking for profit......but most have years of research behind them. How many DIYers have an anechoic chamber and a thousand pounds worth of microphone to test the frequency response?
@@deanmartin6052 So let a set of professional people assemble this into a good speaker? If you are not even designing the cabinet, then why bother?. What type of wadding would you recommend? and how much?.............you are buying 90% of a speaker manufactures effort then, just let them finish the job because they know how to do it.....just like we did at Celestion. But OK , Beware, we made a shit load of Sanyo china made Bang and Olufsen speakers ...stick a "Made in the UK" sticker on it...add £500 and ride the wave. Here is my basic rule of thumb for DIY bullshitters: Does the cabinet look really big compared to the size of the bass driver?...If so then it's all bullshit. The Best sounding speaker I have ever heard are Turbosound Milan 10".....fucking amazing at any level.....can't tell you why....just hear them.
@@deanmartin6052 Haha! Happy Christmas!
Do you have a front ported version of these speakers? If not, do you have any plans to make a front ported design?
I do not, but they can be used as a sealed box design.