It's crazy that dating sims and visual novels didn't *actually* cross over until To Heart, despite the fact that most people equate visual novels to dating sims. Great video!
I was so surprised by that as well, is really interesting, that is why I've had a lot of fun making mystery or horror games, and it makes a lot of sense it flows well with the style of gameplay
A bit of trivia: In the late 80s, Infocom made some games which predicted Japanese visual novels (and interactive movies), called "Infocomics." They were animated stories with a choose-your-own-adventure format, but no gameplay. The gimmick was that there'd be parallel action on multiple plot tracks, but the player could only view one track at a time, so replays were needed to see the whole story from every POV. But they flopped hard and are forgotten today, despite being kind of ahead of their time.
Greetings. Currently I'm a first semester student in a university, studying game development. In one of my subject, I was given an assignment on 'the evolution of game genre' and decided to take Visual Novel as my material choice. Yes, it was known as part of an 'adventure game' genre but since there's short of major genre, I decided to take this subgenre anyway. Throughout my view on this video, I can completely agree on what your point on Visual Novel where the genre is mostly for those games where it was heavily narrative. There are time that I was thinking that games like Ace Attorney and Dangaropa were VN, but its best to call them as 'Puzzle solving adventure Visual Novel', which for some case gonna be mouthful. But forget about that. Let's just say I'm thankful for this video where it was posted right where I needed. It's gonna help me on my assignment now and some part had to be edited... right... There's a lot to edit. Anyway, thank you for posting this video. Have a good day.
This was a fascinating look at VN history! I really wish some of these older titles get translated someday, as they seem really cool. But I love how you clarified that VNs do count as Adventure Games, just simply, another form of them. I personally came into contact with VNs in 2011 when I ran into an indie studio producing one at a convention, which introduced me to Ren'Py software, and as of 2012, I became a VN dev myself. I not only got introduced to a whole new genre of games, but it allowed me to begin my own game dev journey due to it being a little easier to script and code. So I am so happy you posted this as I love knowing how something started and seeing really early titles gives me tons of muse!
the pacing is a bit slow, but its a very cool video. Kinda wanted to know more about VN's, thank you for making this video. 16:54 oh wow what in the world, that is very creative. Using perspective like that is very cool
Great video. It is kinda crazy to think about the language barrier, it really is still relatively new here but with such a deep history. I only really got into them by accident a few years ago through Corpse Party and Steins;Gate. I never knew I’d get so intensely hooked. VNs are actually in decline in Japan now, which is a shame though i can see why. A lot of developers are now leaning into the gacha game market
Great video! The 'VN' tag has been thrown around carelessly over the years, and sadly it has become embedded in English gaming lexicon as a way to distinguish most Japanese AVG regardless of game mechanics.
Thank you, glad you liked the video! I remember visiting Japan Adventure Attack a lot when I was first learning about many Japanese PC titles like the Nightmare Collection, Jesus and J.B. Harold. So thank you as well for all your articles on adventure games over the years.
I played the japanese version of Yu-no. It's crazy how far this genre became an evoled. I'm busy playing Hiroyuuki Kanno visual novels an elf PC-98. I love your video an analysis on the visual novel genre an philosophy of it.
I don't leave comments on videos very often. But I just gotta let you know that this is one my favourite videos on RUclips. It is so insanely well executed and the vibe of it always brings me to a good place. Over the years I must've seen it a dozen times or so but no matter how many times I see it recommended to me, I'll always click on it and enjoy it. Thanks for this video and many of your other ones!
Your videos are so informative, well-executed, and just generally comfy to watch. Most videos that are this length, I usually end up wondering if I'm half way through the video yet. But with your videos, I become surprised and then sad they're over!
I didn't know that To Heart was such a defining title. I, too, always considered VNs as a another branch from graphic adventures (just like point'n'clicks are) but the existence of dating sims that are not VNs never occured to me
The only thing that I found a little bit lacking here is how the "dating sim" branch of vn history appears almost magically, with no proper introduction. But on the other hand, I guess that would take another good 40 minutes to explain and could've really bloated the video. xD Well, it shows how deep this rabbit hole is. :D Aside from this minor nitpick, it'ss such a beautiful video!!! It has really broaden my perception of many things in videogame history.
Thank you. And yeah, this was my first video so there is a lot of stuff I would do differently now. I didn't talk much about dating sims because I wanted to focus on the gameplay origins of the genre but if I did it again I would spend a little more time speaking about how dating sims, the bishoujo boom of the 90s, and the eroge industry lead to the creation of stuff like To Heart.
This was a great video. I’ve been playing VNs for years and had never heard of the adventure game origins (I usually see people focus on VNs and how they correlate with dating sims) but this makes so much sense.
Ha.. after hearing his voice in Basement Bros' latest video, I thought it sounded familiar. After hearing some more, I think it reminds me of Joseph Anderson (who made one of my favorite game reviews ever)
Seeing Katawa Shoujo cited as the "entryway" VN for the Western market really puts into perspective the circles I used to dig around in years before that date and think that anyone moderately down the anime pipeline back then was pining after the Innocent Grey catalog, knew that Ever17 never knew when to bloody end and that someone would inevitably drag Saya no Uta back into the spotlight (with Phantom of Inferno not far behind) for n-th time that week - yet turns out it was the 「d a r k d a y s」
Yeah, there was definitely an active VN scene in the West before Katawa Shoujo and, if I was making this video today, I would talk about that more. But I do remember that the term "visual novel" was not widely used by mainstream sites until after KS's release. And I also remember many people stating that KS was their first VN on various forums back when I was doing my research for this video.
I'm reviving an old comments, I know, but iirc the first "popular" VN (although through infamy) would be a 2006 eroge rapelay, that made a splash and scandal in the western media
KS was actually my 5th VN at the time, but the first big one that I actually liked. Very first VN was Kana Imouto which was a bit meh to me. Then Family Project and Hitome which I didn't really care for. Then the first one that I liked was Wanko To Kurasou with the passable fan translation.
Great video. I'm mostly a fan of those hybrids you mentioned for a second there. With Elf gone and Leaf disappearing for a long time only to come back with Utaware not on PC, I've been mainly playing Alicesoft & Eushully's games. I have to thank you for really highlighting how VNs are still classified as adventure games, and backing that reasoning up. On a sidenote, I like looking back at what visual novels were, and how they changed. I've finished the J.B. Harold series recently, and really want to try Portopia or Famicom Tantei Club.
I'm really late to the party but what a great video essay! Katawa Shoujo was my first VN, I was in my freshman year of highschool at the time, it was really impactful at the time, especially knowing it was made by a ton of people just on 4Chan! It wasn't until after I played Katawa Shoujo I found Visual Novel Database, and dove headfirst into reading Japanese VNs. Its definitely niche still, but I'm glad its gotten some popularity. More traditional Japanese visual novels are pretty darn good, and a lot of people miss out on some great stories! Hoshizora No Memoria - Wish Upon a Shooting Star is a great example game.
Funny, my first exposure to the term "visual novel" was well before 2012, but it was in reference to Radical Dreamers; which, per the information presented here, is not a visual novel. Interesting video btw.
So they guy who directed of Dragon Quest 1-4 also basically pioneered the transition from adventure games to true visual novels? And that’s just ONE thing I didn’t know before this video. You always deliver BoL. Great work as always.
A helpful history for video game genre I know very little about. It is fascinating how Japanese video games emphasize such different play elements than Western video games do. I found this video helps validate my theory on Play Themes. Having Visual Novels emphasize Show & Tell elements more than Puzzle Matching elements demonstrates the distinct play of these two Play Themes. Sure they might both be called Adventure games, but that term doesn’t explain how they are different. Marketing genres are useful as broad signage but
Amazing video. I'm in love with visual novels. I think that Novels/Graphic Novels/ Visual Novels and Video Games are the best way to make a good story.
Wow, what a great video! the history of this medium is fascinating. You must've worked on this a lot, because it's rather comprehensive. I had never even heard of The Colossal Cave before!
I was watching videos of the old leaf VNs and this video got in my recommended. Awesome work!!! Because they haven't been translated you rarely see them being discussed in the western community even though they're considered huge classics by japanese fans; it's kind of fascinating in a way.
One thing I appreciate from this presentation is that all the scenes from the ones I've played seem to early on in their respective stories, so someone watching this won't be spoiled.
I love your documentaries so much! It's both relaxing and feels you with desire to know more about these old and forgotten games out of pure nostalgia for something you never experienced, and I think a lot of that is thanks to your editing. Keep up the good work!
20:00 Even though the Eroge Hentai games were around since the 1980s, it wasn't until the Leaf Visual Novels of 1996 that the Visual Novels and Hentai Games become part of the Japanese Video Games medium. Also considering many of these Eroge Hentai Games were on the Japanese PC platform, it was free from censorship compared to games that were released on consoles at the time.
This whole video seems like mythcrafting on the part of the uploader. Handwaves dating sims. Handwaves hentai games. He has an agenda and his catagorisation doesn't seem organic.
9:20 Hey, Bio-Miracle Jesus! I played the NES port on a ROM site; it was a good time! I played Uninvited around the same time. I wonder if the Mac Adventure titles were at all popular in Japan, on PC or NES?
As always, video on niche topic is niche. Goddamn this needs a MILLION VIEWS. Such amazing indepth overview and with top tier presentation. This feels like watching a TV documentary. Keep it up, man.
It's incredible that searching on RUclips about the early days and "history" of VNs the best content comes from a first video of a channel with less than 10k subs. Not in the sense that's strange that a small channel can produce such a good explanation and essay, but rather that it's strange it didn't reach more people! Hell, I also found this out by searching rather than YT magic bots recommending me this. What more can I say? Great job, really great!
This video was amazing, I really hope you keep doing this kind of stuff, I am so intrigued I plan to look for more information about the origin of adventure games and vns
Great video! As an adventure game fun I always saw visual novels as adventure games, but also as its on special subgenre, focusing more on characterisation, dialogue and choices rather than solving problems in order to progress the story. Just like both platformers and shooters are both subgenres of the action game genre, as they both focus on physical skills and dexterity, but they are also using different kinds of challenges and styles of gameplay for doing so. Classifying all Japanese adventure games under the same category is weakening its meaning and as we can see it lead to the term been used for all story focused Japanese game with static visuals and text description.
I was aware of Visual Novels since 2007, Hourglass of Summer and Phantom of Inferno were my first few Visual Novels I played as well as Kana: Little Sister and Yume Miru Kasuri: A Drug that Makes you Dream. I then went onto playing Pretty Soldier Wars and Lightning Warrior Raidly as well as School Days to have a wide variety of experience in Visual Novels.
I discovered your tumblr a few weeks ago, and I still haven't finished scrolling through all of the informations. And only this evening I've realised that you had a youtube channel. This vidéo was very great, and translate very well what I have seen on your blog.
Tsukihime is a visual novel that got me into visual novels. It's story and writing was so good that I actively wish that there were no Hentai scenes in it. Imagine a story being so good, that a horny fuck like me actively wish the fan service wasn't there.
Very surprised to hear a lot of people only found out about VN's after Katawa Shoujo! I'd played loads of fan translations before then, and constantly looked at VNDB for more recommendations! Glad they are a lot easier to access these days! Great video!
Thanks for the video I have been a fan of Japanese adventure games for awhile and this definitely helped me in one respect, Yasu is the culprit. Seriously though thanks for taking the time to make this explanation and while I can't read any Japanese it was definitely cool to see such a long history handled so generously with care.
As someone who was around pre-KS, that game had such a massive boom that yeah, it *is* responsible for a lot of western awareness of the genre. I only have one friend who got into VNs before then, and she played 999 at the age of eight because wooo parent rating awareness. Aksys was doing some publishing of them, but they started and ended at otome games for the PSP. And Fate/Extra but that game sucks. JAST was around as well, but they were mostly relegated to nukige with the occasional less sex-driven game like Yume Miru Kusuri. Also, neat bit of information: Kagetsu Tohya, the pretty bad Tsukihime "sequel"/spinoff, has Otogirisou but with the Tohno siblings and the maids as one of its ten sidestories. I don't think it has choices, though. So it's probably just the true end.
amazing video, so glad youtube recommended this to me. It is worth noting that One: Kagayaku Kisetsu e was also extremely influential in its own right in that it expanded upon the formula introduced a year earlier with To Heart by having an overarching story elements as well as twists and drama to leave an emotional impact on the player (mostly to make the player cry or at least feel sad then happy) instead if it just purely being about regular highschool romance. One and Moon also utilized text bodes instead of the popular sound novel style and most devs followed suit. The staff that made Key also introduced story elements that explained why different routes/timelines were possible as well. Those elements are almost always used in most modern visual novels, most notably the later Key VNs and Steins Gate. Even Nasu himself said he was inspired by One to make Tsukihime a visual novel instead of a book because he saw what the genre was capable of narratively.
Great history!! Loved learning about such an awesome genre! I would have to say that VNs have brought so much to the table that they DESERVE their own genre. I see it as evolution too. Like other games or songs or what have you, they just started a whole new category. They still CAN be considered under adventure. Then I am able to say, "Adventure Visual Novel" and have it be a completely distinct game, instead of a redundancy! ;) An adventure visual novel makes me think it's a pitfall first person hunting and babe searching story hahahaha Grunge is sexy ;)
No creo que leas este mensaje ya que esta en espa;ol, pero meh... Este video fue publicado varios dias atras en el subreddit de VN y hasta ahora es que lo veo y... Excelente video... Demasiada calidad en todos los aspectos, no entiendo como tienes tan pocos subs. He visto que otros videos tienes e igualmente tocan temas que me interezan... Ojala el genero fuera un poco mas popular en la comunidad hispana para tener a creadores de contenido como tu
Hate how you didn't mention when they cry Amazing video, but people should know about when they cry, because it's iconic when it comes to modern visual novel fans
Great content. Though I think that westerners are identifying a key aesthetic value of visual novels (character portraits, dialogue boxes, lots of text, and/or branching narratives) and that's not untrue. Visual Novels do have a distinct visual style that while historically rooted in adventure games feel uniquely important to novel games. It's not really strange to suggest Persona has visual novel elements or that Ace Attorney has similar presentation to visual novels. To a western they appear similar and even by origin they have the same root. So I think it's rather forgivable to call out visual novels when referencing a specific element in a game that might contain more than the strict definition of what is historically considered a visual novel. I certainly do it to quickly refer to parts of games that remind me of visual novels even if the rest of the game has no resemblance to a novel game.
Back when I made this video I decided to focus on the gameplay origins of the genre. I know that YU-NO was influential but it's impact seemed to be more on the narrative side of things when I did my initial research. If I were to make this video again I would make sure to bring up YU-NO because of how it combined the branching structure of a novel game with the traditional gameplay of an ADV. Plus how it inspired specific creators.
Great video! When I read that Portopia could be considered the first vn I thought it was pretty strange, since it reminded me more of an old school point n click adventure game than a vn. Your explanation was excellent. But there's one thing that wasn't very clear to me. Do you consider sound and kinetic novels a sub-genre of visual novel ou are they a different genre? [sorry for my English, I'm not fluent]
Thank you, glad you liked the video! I think you can consider sound/visual/kinetic novels to be a sub-genre of Japanese adventure games. Or, another way you can look at it, is that Japanese adventure games come in two catalogues: traditional command-based games like Ace Attorney/Portopia and "novel games" which would include sound, visual and kinetic titles. The latter is the way I've been thinking of the genre since making this video.
Hey great video! Like another commenter said it's very fascinating how English-speaking communities have just recently caught wind of visual novels when over in Japan they've got seemingly really deep roots in the entertainment industry. I learnt a lot from your video, also just wanted to say the background music you used is absolutely amazing, gave the video some cosy and homey vibes. Cheers
I have just finished to see your video, simply amazing man. The passion and the hard work that you put into making this video is truly beatiful. You have a new subscriber, man
Loved this video! I know this video is a bit old, but it's funny. I recently read the Kimitachi No Yuri Remake translation that came out after this video was released, and completed it like a month ago. It was interesting to see it talked about.
As a gamer that his first Vn was katawa shoujo and in the years i played like crazy every game that have a translations, your video give me a greater understatement of the history of this genre of game that i love, thanks
What would you say to any westerner who sees a visual novel made in ren'py or something similar and they would say something like, "That's not an adventure game."?
I mean, ultimately people can label any game however they want. I usually just go by how the original creators of a game classify their own work. In the case of Japanese developed titles like the ones I discussed in this video, they are classified as adventure games in Japan because novel-style video games evolved out of that genre.
Bit late finding this, but I find the idea that "all Visual Novels are Adventure games" an interesting one to emphasise. Personally I notice a further distinction. There are products that fit under the "novel game" umbrella without fitting under the "adventure game" umbrella. The types of titles you'd find attached to the Kinetic Novel branding for example, and titles like Narcissu and Chaos;Head, are novel games with none of the adventure, and as such they don't fit within the ADV/AVG category.
Yeah, the point I was trying to get across in the video was that VNs evolved from Japanese adventure games and that VNs are basically a sub-genre of adventure games. However, as I've thought about the subject more, I think maybe a better way to phrase it is that there are two styles of Japanese adventure games: “novel” titles (games mainly about reading with little to no interactions) and “command-based” titles like Ace Attorney (where the player is directly interacting with the game and solving problems). I think I would still put kenetic titles under the umbrella of Japanese adventure games, even if they have basically no gameplay, because they are still using the presentation of Japanese adventure games to tell their story. I mean, Leaf classifies all of their VNs outside of their Visual Novel Series as "AVG" titles on their official website. Even games like the first part of White Album 2 (which I understand is basically a linear "kinetic novel" style title) is still called an AVG. Honestly, I don't really know what the correct way to classify these titles is but that is how I look at it.
@@bowloflentils As someone that can read Japanese, the Japanese community defines games by a main category, and a sub-category. So with ADV, you have '選択式ADV' (An adventure game where you have choices), '移動型ADV' (An adventure where you walk around), 'ノベル系ADV' (An adventure game that acts like a novel), 'P＆C式ADV' (a point and click adventure game), '入力式ADV' (an input-type adventure game), and so on. There's also unique genres like '双六風ADV' (a sugoroku ADV, a kind of board game converted to an adventure game format). This is also how things work with the Shooter genre (westerners keep calling them schmups, but I don't know where that word originated). You have basic Shooters that are split between Horizontal and Vertical Shooters as the default, and everything else afterwards is a spin-off of that as 'Gallery Shooter', 'Rail Shooter', '1st Person Shooter', and so on. One thing that does need to be avoided is the miscategorisation of SLG as ADV. Simulation games are their own genre. Like Tokimeki Memorial is a '恋愛SLG' (Love Simulation Game), and not an ADV (there are versions of Tokimeki that are ADV, but the game series itself is an SLG).
It's crazy that dating sims and visual novels didn't *actually* cross over until To Heart, despite the fact that most people equate visual novels to dating sims. Great video!
I was so surprised by that as well, is really interesting, that is why I've had a lot of fun making mystery or horror games, and it makes a lot of sense it flows well with the style of gameplay
Wait romance and dating sims are different. Like wasnt the first VN a lolicon dating thing. Or does that only count as eroge.
Wait I thought dating sims are sub genre of visual novel. 😅
A bit of trivia: In the late 80s, Infocom made some games which predicted Japanese visual novels (and interactive movies), called "Infocomics." They were animated stories with a choose-your-own-adventure format, but no gameplay. The gimmick was that there'd be parallel action on multiple plot tracks, but the player could only view one track at a time, so replays were needed to see the whole story from every POV. But they flopped hard and are forgotten today, despite being kind of ahead of their time.
Just searched for
Infocom Deadline
Boy, was I surprised!
Greetings.
Currently I'm a first semester student in a university, studying game development. In one of my subject, I was given an assignment on 'the evolution of game genre' and decided to take Visual Novel as my material choice. Yes, it was known as part of an 'adventure game' genre but since there's short of major genre, I decided to take this subgenre anyway. Throughout my view on this video, I can completely agree on what your point on Visual Novel where the genre is mostly for those games where it was heavily narrative. There are time that I was thinking that games like Ace Attorney and Dangaropa were VN, but its best to call them as 'Puzzle solving adventure Visual Novel', which for some case gonna be mouthful.
But forget about that. Let's just say I'm thankful for this video where it was posted right where I needed. It's gonna help me on my assignment now and some part had to be edited... right...
There's a lot to edit.
Anyway, thank you for posting this video. Have a good day.
I'm no game development student
But umineko and higurashi are really amazing N O V E L S
This was a fascinating look at VN history! I really wish some of these older titles get translated someday, as they seem really cool. But I love how you clarified that VNs do count as Adventure Games, just simply, another form of them. I personally came into contact with VNs in 2011 when I ran into an indie studio producing one at a convention, which introduced me to Ren'Py software, and as of 2012, I became a VN dev myself. I not only got introduced to a whole new genre of games, but it allowed me to begin my own game dev journey due to it being a little easier to script and code. So I am so happy you posted this as I love knowing how something started and seeing really early titles gives me tons of muse!
the pacing is a bit slow, but its a very cool video. Kinda wanted to know more about VN's, thank you for making this video.
16:54 oh wow what in the world, that is very creative. Using perspective like that is very cool
"Well. As you can see. Right now, I am a cat."
"Right. I see. A cat."
428 Shibuya Scramble, am I right?
Fantastic video man! Never really noticed how similar VNs could be to Japanese adventure games, but now the similarities are apparent.
Great video. It is kinda crazy to think about the language barrier, it really is still relatively new here but with such a deep history. I only really got into them by accident a few years ago through Corpse Party and Steins;Gate. I never knew I’d get so intensely hooked.
VNs are actually in decline in Japan now, which is a shame though i can see why. A lot of developers are now leaning into the gacha game market
What is a gacha game ?
Great video! The 'VN' tag has been thrown around carelessly over the years, and sadly it has become embedded in English gaming lexicon as a way to distinguish most Japanese AVG regardless of game mechanics.
Thank you, glad you liked the video! I remember visiting Japan Adventure Attack a lot when I was first learning about many Japanese PC titles like the Nightmare Collection, Jesus and J.B. Harold. So thank you as well for all your articles on adventure games over the years.
It's not the only piece of lexicon that is problematic. Another that comes to mind is 'MetroidVania', which just refers to a non-linear action game.
I played the japanese version of Yu-no. It's crazy how far this genre became an evoled.
I'm busy playing Hiroyuuki Kanno visual novels an elf PC-98. I love your video an analysis on the visual novel genre an philosophy of it.
I don't leave comments on videos very often. But I just gotta let you know that this is one my favourite videos on RUclips. It is so insanely well executed and the vibe of it always brings me to a good place. Over the years I must've seen it a dozen times or so but no matter how many times I see it recommended to me, I'll always click on it and enjoy it. Thanks for this video and many of your other ones!
Your videos are so informative, well-executed, and just generally comfy to watch. Most videos that are this length, I usually end up wondering if I'm half way through the video yet. But with your videos, I become surprised and then sad they're over!
I've been curious about the difference between Japanese adventure games and VNs for awhile. Good shit.
I didn't know that To Heart was such a defining title.
I, too, always considered VNs as a another branch from graphic adventures (just like point'n'clicks are) but the existence of dating sims that are not VNs never occured to me
The only thing that I found a little bit lacking here is how the "dating sim" branch of vn history appears almost magically, with no proper introduction. But on the other hand, I guess that would take another good 40 minutes to explain and could've really bloated the video. xD
Well, it shows how deep this rabbit hole is. :D
Aside from this minor nitpick, it'ss such a beautiful video!!! It has really broaden my perception of many things in videogame history.
Thank you. And yeah, this was my first video so there is a lot of stuff I would do differently now. I didn't talk much about dating sims because I wanted to focus on the gameplay origins of the genre but if I did it again I would spend a little more time speaking about how dating sims, the bishoujo boom of the 90s, and the eroge industry lead to the creation of stuff like To Heart.
This was a great video. I’ve been playing VNs for years and had never heard of the adventure game origins (I usually see people focus on VNs and how they correlate with dating sims) but this makes so much sense.
I’m Japanese.
This video is fantastic!
Ha.. after hearing his voice in Basement Bros' latest video, I thought it sounded familiar.
After hearing some more, I think it reminds me of Joseph Anderson (who made one of my favorite game reviews ever)
Seeing Katawa Shoujo cited as the "entryway" VN for the Western market really puts into perspective the circles I used to dig around in years before that date and think that anyone moderately down the anime pipeline back then was pining after the Innocent Grey catalog, knew that Ever17 never knew when to bloody end and that someone would inevitably drag Saya no Uta back into the spotlight (with Phantom of Inferno not far behind) for n-th time that week - yet turns out it was the 「d a r k d a y s」
Yeah, there was definitely an active VN scene in the West before Katawa Shoujo and, if I was making this video today, I would talk about that more. But I do remember that the term "visual novel" was not widely used by mainstream sites until after KS's release. And I also remember many people stating that KS was their first VN on various forums back when I was doing my research for this video.
I'm reviving an old comments, I know, but iirc the first "popular" VN (although through infamy) would be a 2006 eroge rapelay, that made a splash and scandal in the western media
Requiem of a phantom was a nice adaption for the time
KS was actually my 5th VN at the time, but the first big one that I actually liked. Very first VN was Kana Imouto which was a bit meh to me. Then Family Project and Hitome which I didn't really care for. Then the first one that I liked was Wanko To Kurasou with the passable fan translation.
Great video. I'm mostly a fan of those hybrids you mentioned for a second there.
With Elf gone and Leaf disappearing for a long time only to come back with Utaware not on PC, I've been mainly playing Alicesoft & Eushully's games.
I have to thank you for really highlighting how VNs are still classified as adventure games, and backing that reasoning up.
On a sidenote, I like looking back at what visual novels were, and how they changed. I've finished the J.B. Harold series recently, and really want to try Portopia or Famicom Tantei Club.
I'm really late to the party but what a great video essay! Katawa Shoujo was my first VN, I was in my freshman year of highschool at the time, it was really impactful at the time, especially knowing it was made by a ton of people just on 4Chan!
It wasn't until after I played Katawa Shoujo I found Visual Novel Database, and dove headfirst into reading Japanese VNs. Its definitely niche still, but I'm glad its gotten some popularity. More traditional Japanese visual novels are pretty darn good, and a lot of people miss out on some great stories! Hoshizora No Memoria - Wish Upon a Shooting Star is a great example game.
Funny, my first exposure to the term "visual novel" was well before 2012, but it was in reference to Radical Dreamers; which, per the information presented here, is not a visual novel. Interesting video btw.
So they guy who directed of Dragon Quest 1-4 also basically pioneered the transition from adventure games to true visual novels?
And that’s just ONE thing I didn’t know before this video.
You always deliver BoL. Great work as always.
A helpful history for video game genre I know very little about. It is fascinating how Japanese video games emphasize such different play elements than Western video games do.
I found this video helps validate my theory on Play Themes. Having Visual Novels emphasize Show & Tell elements more than Puzzle Matching elements demonstrates the distinct play of these two Play Themes. Sure they might both be called Adventure games, but that term doesn’t explain how they are different. Marketing genres are useful as broad signage but
Amazing video. I'm in love with visual novels. I think that Novels/Graphic Novels/ Visual Novels and Video Games are the best way to make a good story.
Wow, what a great video! the history of this medium is fascinating. You must've worked on this a lot, because it's rather comprehensive. I had never even heard of The Colossal Cave before!
Visual novels seem to have a big influence on Nagasaka
Incredibly informative video, thank you very much
I was watching videos of the old leaf VNs and this video got in my recommended. Awesome work!!! Because they haven't been translated you rarely see them being discussed in the western community even though they're considered huge classics by japanese fans; it's kind of fascinating in a way.
My first visual novel was Radical Dreamers which I played in 2003.
One thing I appreciate from this presentation is that all the scenes from the ones I've played seem to early on in their respective stories, so someone watching this won't be spoiled.
cool. I like the background music you used.
I love your documentaries so much! It's both relaxing and feels you with desire to know more about these old and forgotten games out of pure nostalgia for something you never experienced, and I think a lot of that is thanks to your editing. Keep up the good work!
Woah interesting video good job! I surprised I haven't found this video sooner.
20:00 Even though the Eroge Hentai games were around since the 1980s, it wasn't until the Leaf Visual Novels of 1996 that the Visual Novels and Hentai Games become part of the Japanese Video Games medium.
Also considering many of these Eroge Hentai Games were on the Japanese PC platform, it was free from censorship compared to games that were released on consoles at the time.
This whole video seems like mythcrafting on the part of the uploader. Handwaves dating sims. Handwaves hentai games. He has an agenda and his catagorisation doesn't seem organic.
So whats the difference between old school eroge and visual novel?
@@supermarx So what? Eroge games have (Almost) nothing to do with visual novels, get off your frickin' high horse. Smh
9:20 Hey, Bio-Miracle Jesus! I played the NES port on a ROM site; it was a good time! I played Uninvited around the same time. I wonder if the Mac Adventure titles were at all popular in Japan, on PC or NES?
This is a super informative video, really love your channel!
As always, video on niche topic is niche.
Goddamn this needs a MILLION VIEWS.
Such amazing indepth overview and with top tier presentation. This feels like watching a TV documentary.
Keep it up, man.
I will come back to this vid if I want to find a new visual novel to read. nice vis
Eating a bowl of lentils while watching Mobile Suite Gundam Wing.... Is that a visual novel?
The history of visual novels is really fascinating, they are indeed adventure games, Great video 👍
This is a seriously good video. Absolutely the best explanation I have seen of the genre and its history. Well done
It's incredible that searching on RUclips about the early days and "history" of VNs the best content comes from a first video of a channel with less than 10k subs.
Not in the sense that's strange that a small channel can produce such a good explanation and essay, but rather that it's strange it didn't reach more people!
Hell, I also found this out by searching rather than YT magic bots recommending me this.
What more can I say? Great job, really great!
Kichikuou Rance was the peak for a long time... now the peak is Rance X
This video was amazing, I really hope you keep doing this kind of stuff, I am so intrigued I plan to look for more information about the origin of adventure games and vns
Maybe you can look up known developers and publishers of the genres, weather they are mainstream or more indie.
Great video!
As an adventure game fun I always saw visual novels as adventure games, but also as its on special subgenre, focusing more on characterisation, dialogue and choices rather than solving problems in order to progress the story.
Just like both platformers and shooters are both subgenres of the action game genre, as they both focus on physical skills and dexterity, but they are also using different kinds of challenges and styles of gameplay for doing so.
Classifying all Japanese adventure games under the same category is weakening its meaning and as we can see it lead to the term been used for all story focused Japanese game with static visuals and text description.
I really hated visual novels and anime, but when i realised how good these visual novel games are, i became a gamedev :) now i love VNs alot.
I was aware of Visual Novels since 2007, Hourglass of Summer and Phantom of Inferno were my first few Visual Novels I played as well as Kana: Little Sister and Yume Miru Kasuri: A Drug that Makes you Dream.
I then went onto playing Pretty Soldier Wars and Lightning Warrior Raidly as well as School Days to have a wide variety of experience in Visual Novels.
I discovered your tumblr a few weeks ago, and I still haven't finished scrolling through all of the informations.
And only this evening I've realised that you had a youtube channel.
This vidéo was very great, and translate very well what I have seen on your blog.
Thanks man :)
Tsukihime is a visual novel that got me into visual novels. It's story and writing was so good that I actively wish that there were no Hentai scenes in it. Imagine a story being so good, that a horny fuck like me actively wish the fan service wasn't there.
Tsukihime Remake: Got you fam
this was a simply wonderful video, please continue making these, i am going to start working through all your uploads asap after seeing this
Man you make every topic interesting i love your work. Started with history of falcom. Gonna be binging your videos the next few days/weeks
Very surprised to hear a lot of people only found out about VN's after Katawa Shoujo! I'd played loads of fan translations before then, and constantly looked at VNDB for more recommendations! Glad they are a lot easier to access these days! Great video!
Just love the calm breakdown of the genre.
Thanks for the video I have been a fan of Japanese adventure games for awhile and this definitely helped me in one respect, Yasu is the culprit. Seriously though thanks for taking the time to make this explanation and while I can't read any Japanese it was definitely cool to see such a long history handled so generously with care.
Great video. Awesome choice in music!
As someone who was around pre-KS, that game had such a massive boom that yeah, it *is* responsible for a lot of western awareness of the genre. I only have one friend who got into VNs before then, and she played 999 at the age of eight because wooo parent rating awareness. Aksys was doing some publishing of them, but they started and ended at otome games for the PSP. And Fate/Extra but that game sucks. JAST was around as well, but they were mostly relegated to nukige with the occasional less sex-driven game like Yume Miru Kusuri.
Also, neat bit of information: Kagetsu Tohya, the pretty bad Tsukihime "sequel"/spinoff, has Otogirisou but with the Tohno siblings and the maids as one of its ten sidestories. I don't think it has choices, though. So it's probably just the true end.
A true documentary about the Visual Novel genre! Amazing work dude! 🤩👏
Really liked the bgm choices here
amazing video, so glad youtube recommended this to me. It is worth noting that One: Kagayaku Kisetsu e was also extremely influential in its own right in that it expanded upon the formula introduced a year earlier with To Heart by having an overarching story elements as well as twists and drama to leave an emotional impact on the player (mostly to make the player cry or at least feel sad then happy) instead if it just purely being about regular highschool romance. One and Moon also utilized text bodes instead of the popular sound novel style and most devs followed suit. The staff that made Key also introduced story elements that explained why different routes/timelines were possible as well. Those elements are almost always used in most modern visual novels, most notably the later Key VNs and Steins Gate. Even Nasu himself said he was inspired by One to make Tsukihime a visual novel instead of a book because he saw what the genre was capable of narratively.
🫂 🤗 ❤
Very very interesting video. You opened my eyes. I want to experience everything this genre has to offer!!
Really nice and informative video
Great history!! Loved learning about such an awesome genre! I would have to say that VNs have brought so much to the table that they DESERVE their own genre. I see it as evolution too. Like other games or songs or what have you, they just started a whole new category. They still CAN be considered under adventure. Then I am able to say, "Adventure Visual Novel" and have it be a completely distinct game, instead of a redundancy! ;) An adventure visual novel makes me think it's a pitfall first person hunting and babe searching story hahahaha Grunge is sexy ;)
No creo que leas este mensaje ya que esta en espa;ol, pero meh... Este video fue publicado varios dias atras en el subreddit de VN y hasta ahora es que lo veo y... Excelente video... Demasiada calidad en todos los aspectos, no entiendo como tienes tan pocos subs. He visto que otros videos tienes e igualmente tocan temas que me interezan... Ojala el genero fuera un poco mas popular en la comunidad hispana para tener a creadores de contenido como tu
Gracias :)
Really interesting video! The depth of information and quality of the video was fantastic. You definitely earned a sub!
Hate how you didn't mention when they cry
Amazing video, but people should know about when they cry, because it's iconic when it comes to modern visual novel fans
I love your videos
oops... hit commit
But Marketing genre definitions are not about nuance.
Great content. Though I think that westerners are identifying a key aesthetic value of visual novels (character portraits, dialogue boxes, lots of text, and/or branching narratives) and that's not untrue. Visual Novels do have a distinct visual style that while historically rooted in adventure games feel uniquely important to novel games. It's not really strange to suggest Persona has visual novel elements or that Ace Attorney has similar presentation to visual novels. To a western they appear similar and even by origin they have the same root. So I think it's rather forgivable to call out visual novels when referencing a specific element in a game that might contain more than the strict definition of what is historically considered a visual novel. I certainly do it to quickly refer to parts of games that remind me of visual novels even if the rest of the game has no resemblance to a novel game.
"ah, the occident didn't got many visual novels"
meanwhile... "plumbers don't wear ties" lol
Where is YU-NO? It came before To Heart, and had a huge impact on visual novels.
Back when I made this video I decided to focus on the gameplay origins of the genre. I know that YU-NO was influential but it's impact seemed to be more on the narrative side of things when I did my initial research. If I were to make this video again I would make sure to bring up YU-NO because of how it combined the branching structure of a novel game with the traditional gameplay of an ADV. Plus how it inspired specific creators.
Dude, no homo, but your voice is so nice
Great video! When I read that Portopia could be considered the first vn I thought it was pretty strange, since it reminded me more of an old school point n click adventure game than a vn. Your explanation was excellent.
But there's one thing that wasn't very clear to me. Do you consider sound and kinetic novels a sub-genre of visual novel ou are they a different genre? [sorry for my English, I'm not fluent]
Thank you, glad you liked the video! I think you can consider sound/visual/kinetic novels to be a sub-genre of Japanese adventure games. Or, another way you can look at it, is that Japanese adventure games come in two catalogues: traditional command-based games like Ace Attorney/Portopia and "novel games" which would include sound, visual and kinetic titles. The latter is the way I've been thinking of the genre since making this video.
Hey great video! Like another commenter said it's very fascinating how English-speaking communities have just recently caught wind of visual novels when over in Japan they've got seemingly really deep roots in the entertainment industry. I learnt a lot from your video, also just wanted to say the background music you used is absolutely amazing, gave the video some cosy and homey vibes. Cheers
Great work
I love the relaxed pace.
good video ! ;)
all these BAKA GAIJINS calling ace attorney a visual novel are making me really mad!
great vid thanks
please make more videos like this
I have just finished to see your video, simply amazing man.
The passion and the hard work that you put into making this video is truly beatiful.
You have a new subscriber, man
Ok, so the games of semicolon universe being officially named named science adventure makes much more sense now
Loved this video! I know this video is a bit old, but it's funny. I recently read the Kimitachi No Yuri Remake translation that came out after this video was released, and completed it like a month ago. It was interesting to see it talked about.
so that's why To Heart now carries legendary status m(_ _)m
Thank you, this was very interesting and clarified a lot of things about visual novels for me.
The cat in the hat anthology is my favourite visual novel series, going by Western criteria
As a gamer that his first Vn was katawa shoujo and in the years i played like crazy every game that have a translations, your video give me a greater understatement of the history of this genre of game that i love, thanks
Muy disfrutable el vídeo, me han hecho pensar mucho (・∀・)
Thanks for this history and breakdown. That was an extremely interesting watch!
God Shizuku looks aesthetic.
Your video is excellent. You have a knack for storytelling.
Oh fuck thank god I was about to EXPLODE
Excellent video, I loved it! You clearly put a lot of work into it, and it shows.
loved the video, thanks for your work
I real love this video it well done and explains why there a lot horror in the visual novel genre . Thank you 😊
my man talks like he's about to pass out
What would you say to any westerner who sees a visual novel made in ren'py or something similar and they would say something like, "That's not an adventure game."?
I mean, ultimately people can label any game however they want. I usually just go by how the original creators of a game classify their own work. In the case of Japanese developed titles like the ones I discussed in this video, they are classified as adventure games in Japan because novel-style video games evolved out of that genre.
Bit late finding this, but I find the idea that "all Visual Novels are Adventure games" an interesting one to emphasise.
Personally I notice a further distinction. There are products that fit under the "novel game" umbrella without fitting under the "adventure game" umbrella.
The types of titles you'd find attached to the Kinetic Novel branding for example, and titles like Narcissu and Chaos;Head, are novel games with none of the adventure, and as such they don't fit within the ADV/AVG category.
Yeah, the point I was trying to get across in the video was that VNs evolved from Japanese adventure games and that VNs are basically a sub-genre of adventure games.
However, as I've thought about the subject more, I think maybe a better way to phrase it is that there are two styles of Japanese adventure games: “novel” titles (games mainly about reading with little to no interactions) and “command-based” titles like Ace Attorney (where the player is directly interacting with the game and solving problems). I think I would still put kenetic titles under the umbrella of Japanese adventure games, even if they have basically no gameplay, because they are still using the presentation of Japanese adventure games to tell their story.
I mean, Leaf classifies all of their VNs outside of their Visual Novel Series as "AVG" titles on their official website. Even games like the first part of White Album 2 (which I understand is basically a linear "kinetic novel" style title) is still called an AVG. Honestly, I don't really know what the correct way to classify these titles is but that is how I look at it.
@@bowloflentils As someone that can read Japanese, the Japanese community defines games by a main category, and a sub-category. So with ADV, you have '選択式ADV' (An adventure game where you have choices), '移動型ADV' (An adventure where you walk around), 'ノベル系ADV' (An adventure game that acts like a novel), 'P＆C式ADV' (a point and click adventure game), '入力式ADV' (an input-type adventure game), and so on. There's also unique genres like '双六風ADV' (a sugoroku ADV, a kind of board game converted to an adventure game format).
This is also how things work with the Shooter genre (westerners keep calling them schmups, but I don't know where that word originated). You have basic Shooters that are split between Horizontal and Vertical Shooters as the default, and everything else afterwards is a spin-off of that as 'Gallery Shooter', 'Rail Shooter', '1st Person Shooter', and so on.
One thing that does need to be avoided is the miscategorisation of SLG as ADV. Simulation games are their own genre. Like Tokimeki Memorial is a '恋愛SLG' (Love Simulation Game), and not an ADV (there are versions of Tokimeki that are ADV, but the game series itself is an SLG).
Woah.
I want to read Shizuku