Ezra, I don't know how you manage to bring up topics that have deep personal relevance to me, but it keeps happening and I am SO GLAD that I get to hear your input and good research on it...Thank you!!! you have no idea what it means to me!
I have a friendship like that! And you’re right, “best friend” really doesn’t cut it as a descriptor for our relationship. We decided on sisters. It’s obviously not accurate, but it’s the closest thing to what our relationship feels like.
So thankful for this episode. I've been beating myself up (and being beaten up) for not fulfilling all of these expectations in my marriage - we're not best friends. This episode opened my mind to the idea that, maybe that was never a realistic expectation. ❤
This episode reminded me of my experiene teaching Argentine tango to beginners. It's an improvised partner dance that requires active listening to your partners and physical intimacy (it's called "tango minutes love" referring the duration of a set a couple dance together before they move on to the next person). In the beginning men tend to be very bad at it. Building physically expressed affection requires training and men get better as they grow as tango dancers and build network of friendship through this shared activity. In Argentina, couples as old as in their 90s still go out to the night clubs and dance and stay healthy thanks to the network of friends they built over time.
This is pretty interesting for me. I am pretty extroverted and have atleast 9 close friends including 3 which are family members, 1 in particular my best friend met 15 years ago in college i qm also close with his now wife and both of their family and kids. We lived together for years before he was married and everyone would say they must be gay. Couldnt be further from the truth not evwn a lil bit of interest in him or any man sexually at all ever we just enjoyed being around each other and even worked together on top of it. When him and his wife built a new home they built an extra room set up for me when i am there lol. I also have close friendship with few others where we talk nearly everyday about everything. But I know people like my sister and her husband who are much more introverted We say they do not have a friend that they consider a real friend in their life besides their siblings that to me is just insane.
It is possible to be lonely and married. You may have the security of a marriage but not the emotional closeness/intimacy that you crave. It is more complicated by the combined assets that is usually a part of marriage and may be the main tie that binds. The problem is made more central when you realize that marriage makes it harder to maintain and nurture the relationships that do provide emotional sustenance. Having children ameliorates that problem, for a long while, but when children begin to find their own important relationships the parent is once again alone. I suppose the fact that families move all over the country sometimes more than once. makes everything more disconnected.
I think the logic behind emphasizing romance--i.e., a sexual relationship between two people--is, first, the obvious one: that from such a relationship, children may be forthcoming. But second, there has also been the thought that the sexual nature of a relationship provides its foundation; that, in other words, you wouldn't *want* to cast your sexual partner aside. (And, of course, a legal framework was built to make this difficult and painful to accomplish.) To the point of your podcast, obviously sex is not the only, nor necessarily the best, glue for a relationship. But there is no comparable legal framework to ensure that your "best friend," who is helping you raise your kids, can't simply up and walk out on your co-parenting relationship if she meets the (sexual) love of her life. There is no recognized social category, that I'm aware of, for the rights of members of an extended or non-related "family."
Fascinating conversation. I have several close, yet not sexual male friends, am single, and the non bio mom of a son, single, bisexual (I think) woman....lots of boxes I don't fit in. I think developing healthy boundaries makes all the difference in being able to navigate all the variations we humans can explore in a healthy way. I wonder if as a species we are evolving and differentiating beyond tribal villages defined for us to creating our own villages...as we theoretically become healthier in our individual diversity the more possibilities there are in relationship diversity. Whether they are healthy or not seems dependent again on having good boundaries and respecting those of others.
I remember how arcane and unpredictable computers were in the 1980s with TRS80s, and how much more user-friendly they have become in the past forty years. The user experience has improved because people recognize which things computers are good at, and the user interface has shifted from command lines to icons. People customize their Facebook page or their Instagram feed, or TikTok experience. Individualized experiences and mass-culture coexist. Human-human interface is still trapped in identity politics arguments from the liberation movements of the 1960s, as if computers still ran on FORTRAN and COBOL.
This is super interesting. I have a friend that is married him and his wife includes me in just about everything. We're looking to start our own homestead together. Our little group has a unique emotional connection but not physical. It's interesting not how I saw this relationship going originally
Maybe they aren’t looking for “connection” when thinking of an emotional affair, maybe they are wanting more and more and more and have difficulty with balance and moderation.
Love/Lust and dopamine reward - those are mind tricks to make you reproduce on a bad planet. Relationship and sex is a sad mistake. Guitar and movies is more fun anyways with not much free time after work.
Ezra, I don't know how you manage to bring up topics that have deep personal relevance to me, but it keeps happening and I am SO GLAD that I get to hear your input and good research on it...Thank you!!!
you have no idea what it means to me!
I have a friendship like that! And you’re right, “best friend” really doesn’t cut it as a descriptor for our relationship. We decided on sisters. It’s obviously not accurate, but it’s the closest thing to what our relationship feels like.
So thankful for this episode. I've been beating myself up (and being beaten up) for not fulfilling all of these expectations in my marriage - we're not best friends. This episode opened my mind to the idea that, maybe that was never a realistic expectation. ❤
This episode reminded me of my experiene teaching Argentine tango to beginners. It's an improvised partner dance that requires active listening to your partners and physical intimacy (it's called "tango minutes love" referring the duration of a set a couple dance together before they move on to the next person). In the beginning men tend to be very bad at it. Building physically expressed affection requires training and men get better as they grow as tango dancers and build network of friendship through this shared activity. In Argentina, couples as old as in their 90s still go out to the night clubs and dance and stay healthy thanks to the network of friends they built over time.
Thank you for using the phrase "emotional aperture" in your introduction. It's just a half second of insight and language, but well worth considering.
This is pretty interesting for me. I am pretty extroverted and have atleast 9 close friends including 3 which are family members, 1 in particular my best friend met 15 years ago in college i qm also close with his now wife and both of their family and kids. We lived together for years before he was married and everyone would say they must be gay. Couldnt be further from the truth not evwn a lil bit of interest in him or any man sexually at all ever we just enjoyed being around each other and even worked together on top of it. When him and his wife built a new home they built an extra room set up for me when i am there lol. I also have close friendship with few others where we talk nearly everyday about everything. But I know people like my sister and her husband who are much more introverted We say they do not have a friend that they consider a real friend in their life besides their siblings that to me is just insane.
It is possible to be lonely and married. You may have the security of a marriage but not the emotional closeness/intimacy that you crave. It is more complicated by the combined assets that is usually a part of marriage and may be the main tie that binds. The problem is made more central when you realize that marriage makes it harder to maintain and nurture the relationships that do provide emotional sustenance. Having children ameliorates that problem, for a long while, but when children begin to find their own important relationships the parent is once again alone. I suppose the fact that families move all over the country sometimes more than once. makes everything more disconnected.
I think the logic behind emphasizing romance--i.e., a sexual relationship between two people--is, first, the obvious one: that from such a relationship, children may be forthcoming. But second, there has also been the thought that the sexual nature of a relationship provides its foundation; that, in other words, you wouldn't *want* to cast your sexual partner aside. (And, of course, a legal framework was built to make this difficult and painful to accomplish.)
To the point of your podcast, obviously sex is not the only, nor necessarily the best, glue for a relationship. But there is no comparable legal framework to ensure that your "best friend," who is helping you raise your kids, can't simply up and walk out on your co-parenting relationship if she meets the (sexual) love of her life. There is no recognized social category, that I'm aware of, for the rights of members of an extended or non-related "family."
I would want polyamory if I thought it was possible....
Turns out is is. I've been living that way for decades, happily and would never go back.
Fascinating conversation. I have several close, yet not sexual male friends, am single, and the non bio mom of a son, single, bisexual (I think) woman....lots of boxes I don't fit in. I think developing healthy boundaries makes all the difference in being able to navigate all the variations we humans can explore in a healthy way. I wonder if as a species we are evolving and differentiating beyond tribal villages defined for us to creating our own villages...as we theoretically become healthier in our individual diversity the more possibilities there are in relationship diversity. Whether they are healthy or not seems dependent again on having good boundaries and respecting those of others.
The human race would serve me with the same deterministic precision that my computer serves me. That's what I'd like if I could have it.
This comment feels like a sign of the times
I remember how arcane and unpredictable computers were in the 1980s with TRS80s, and how much more user-friendly they have become in the past forty years. The user experience has improved because people recognize which things computers are good at, and the user interface has shifted from command lines to icons. People customize their Facebook page or their Instagram feed, or TikTok experience. Individualized experiences and mass-culture coexist. Human-human interface is still trapped in identity politics arguments from the liberation movements of the 1960s, as if computers still ran on FORTRAN and COBOL.
This is super interesting. I have a friend that is married him and his wife includes me in just about everything. We're looking to start our own homestead together. Our little group has a unique emotional connection but not physical. It's interesting not how I saw this relationship going originally
Thank you so much !
Not into group living, most especially in my home.
Maybe they aren’t looking for “connection” when thinking of an emotional affair, maybe they are wanting more and more and more and have difficulty with balance and moderation.
Seems like a way for the average man to get screwed over. And you wonder why men quit
Let them quit. More for me!
Love/Lust and dopamine reward - those are mind tricks to make you reproduce on a bad planet. Relationship and sex is a sad mistake. Guitar and movies is more fun anyways with not much free time after work.
Social engineering propaganda.