I like pool noodles. I use one for the form of the loading coil on my 15-40 meter portable vertical. It costs almost nothing, (compared to the ridiculously-priced commercial coils,) and allows me to easily adjust the tap on the coil. And the form has essentially no loss or added weight.
Its nice ti see that there are still hams out there that build their own antenna's rather than just buy some piece of junk. The Problem with most new hams is they have not had the privilege of an Elmer to teach them along the way. So they just buy what they need instead of experimenting and gaining knowledge and having the fun of seeing the fruits of their labors on the air. I have had that thrill for over 50 yrs and still get excited to build something and watch it work and see my creation create qso's good show. RudI!
Wow glad I found your video Rudi, I've been kicking around the idea of get my general, but I live in an HOA and have no space for large antennas, and needed something I can put up and down, and takes no space up. Your design would be perfect for me. You're the man.
Good for you! I’m absolutely chuffed and encouraged to have a go. I part laying around gathering dust, and so also suffering from terrible arthritis, I dare to call this approach therapeutic! 😅 Thanks for your kind easy going instruction too!
Great video and very cool design. As a new ham just over a year ago I've been exploring different antennas to build. Definitely on a budget so it's cheaper than buying new, tho I love building and then having the joy of using it makes it so much better. Thanks for the video, looking forward to more. 73's
The cool thing about the Noodle is that it provides a great form to hold the turns at a controlled spacing while still being light, as well as providing stiffness (with the internal 3/4" PVC tubing).
Thanks Rudy for this inspiring project. I built it and tested it out. Made a fantastic QSO from Gibraltar to USA through this antenna. What I have found it to be too deaf, in other words it captures a lot of interference and over loads my icom 7300. The SWR was perfect on 40, 20, 15, and 10. In order to hear a qso I had to have them strong, say 5/7 to hear them at about 5/4, 5/6. 73's and welcome any feedback.
Thanks for your contribution to the hobby. Why not show a sweep with an antenna analyzer to demonstrate the bandwidth and SWR? Also an on-air A-B comparison with a standard horizontal dipole would be a bonus.
I'm going to be traveling for training at a new job and was dreading not having my radio in the motels. My first week in the hotel I'm going to try to build one of these. Thanks!
Remoteley tunable Idea: if you could get a short steel rod with a motor drive near the base you could drive it up and down inside a region of tighter (closer-wound) coil turns to alter the inductance and give it some remote fine-tuning across a band. The motor would turn a threaded rod and and work a bit like a screwdriver antenna. The key thing is to move the steel bolt into and out of a section of tighter coils - in even-spaced coils there will be only marginal change is resonance. Not sure if there are better materials to use(steel is lossy and kills Q) but a steel bolt is cheap and easy to find for an experiment
Nice work, Rudi! Not a bad looking antenna, too. I'm looking for perhaps a magnetic mount for an indoor base in conjunction with the Baofeng UV5r radio. So many ideas and many of these seem to work just fine. Enjoyed watching, thanksv& take care...
Oh man, been there, done that. Gonna be HEAVY and will droop a ton when horizontal, and won't be stiff enough to self-support vertically (without some guy wires).
Hi Rudi!! I'm extremely excited to find your video! I've been considering using a set of pool noodles to create a helically wound cubical quad antenna. It would have some wind loading because of the noodles but (going out on a limb here) if we can reduce, for example, a 20m quad's radiating element from ~5m/side to ~1m/side (using your quote of a dipole 1/5 the normal size), that's a _HUGE_ reduction. That would even put a 40m quad within a reasonable size. I realize there's some inductance with a purely helical design but I think it's something that might be worth pursing. The nice thing about quads, from what I've read, is unlike yagis, they don't need to be 1/2 wavelength above ground. I'd really like to know what you think of a purely helical wound quad, using pool noodles (and some sort of frame to support it, of course)? I'll check your other videos too! You definitely have a new fan here. (Due to uncontrollable circumstances, we lost our home a few years ago, with little notice and had to settle for a HOA condo so, antennas choices are slim.) Very best 73's!! Tnx de WB3CFN ...dit dit
The main idea here was a stealthier and more portable antenna for POTA and HOTA (HOA's-On-The-Air). Kind of like the next step from a hamstick dipole. There's LOTS of different directions to take this. I like the multi-band parallel dipole approach with 3 NoodleTennas on mast. The 10m vertical at the top, and two horizontal dipoles below that (15m and 20m). Then feed them in parallel just like a fan dipole. These are already are right angles to each other for good EM separation. Remember to use a good common-mode choke like 6-8 snap-on Mix 31 ferrites at the feed point with a tight fit to the coax.
First of all I can relate with you on the HOA challenges, which is the reason I developed this guy. I think any structure more complex than 2-3 of these (eg-10/15/20m on a 6-way cross) would be WAY too heavy, floppy and have huge wind loading.
I did something vaguely similar for wideband/shortwave reception. I am trying to research to see how I can improve it. I wound about 200 feet of #28 magnet wire around a piece of 2.5" PVC pipe going in one direction starting at the center, and did the same from the center going the other direction with another piece of #28. fed the two center wires to a 1:1 UNUN and connected that to my SDR. It works shockingly well. I just winged it though. I'm looking to play with techniques and wire lengths to see how it comes out. Very little information out there on this type of thing.
Not really..just a standard dipole wrapped around pool noodles 🤷🙄..in fact, I think it's a pretty bad design, I can see those noodles melting if you run over 30 watts through that wire ..
I've pumped well over 100W into this (once tuned) and never saw signs of heating. I use 18 AWG hookup wire which is rated to handle hundreds of watts. The resistance of such a relatively short length is VERY low. Before you criticize, maybe you should first try building, tuning and testing one for yourself. You may be surprised. It IS a "compromise", but if you live in an HOA or on the 5th floor with only a balcony, it will get you on the air.
Thanks Rudy! I built the 20 meter helical wound pool noodle dipole antenna. Attic installed application approx 30 from ground elevation using 14 awg steel fence wire, w/coax RF choke. Logged in to share a performance testimony. 20 meter/100watt/SWR 1:1, horizontally mounted, space weather propagation conditions average - contact a few days ago, upstate New York to Capetown, South Africa. The noodle gets the job done.😀 Question: have you determined if the antenna has a circular wave pattern and would the signal direction be perpendicular to the dipole or generate off the ends?
Good to hear you had that kind of performance. Any more updates for like 40m yet or are you still playing on 20m. Im asking because I think I am about to build one for 20 and 40m
@@k7ilo_Las_Vegas for now just the 20M. The set up is working great. No 40M as of yet but I do see one in the future. It's actually a pretty fun antenna to construct. I found using painters tape to hold the windings in place every couple of turns helps hold things in place as you wind the wire. Plenty of DX contacts on the cheap. Good luck with your builds.
A helical antenna this size won't radiate very much off the ends at HF. The circumference has to be close to the wavelength for a helical to fire that way. For 10m, that means the antenna has to be 3m in diameter!
I came across your video while looking for ways to build an inexpensive dipole for 40M. I'm a newer ham and was curious if this would work for NVIS. 73
Just use 18 turns on a 70mm diameter noodle on each end for 10m version and scale linearly from there. 20m would simply be 36 turns at each end. Fold-back excess (DON'T CUT) to tune it to a higher resonant frequency. If your SWR never gets down to about 1.5, then you have a mis-match in wire lengths between the 2 ends.
Well, I started with 10m because it was easier to physically deal with. Then all the other bands just scale from there. If you change the turn spacing you'll have to change the number of turns to get into resonance.
I haven't taken the time to try different winding spacings. I went by my experience with Slinky antennas (MUCH more ohmic losses). Remember that the short you go, the less sensitive the antenna is on receive. I complement my NoodleTenna with a dedicated long-wire on my SDR receiver with a T/R switch into the rig.
Hi Rudy, Very Interesting design. What is the Bandwidth like, is it High Q or does it cover the 20Meter band pretty well? I'm wondering if it would be a good attic antenna.
It has all the wide bandwidth characteristics of a typical dipole. I would NOT recommend putting in the attic as it already is challenged a bit on receive. Place it on your porch or balcony.
Great idea! FYI, extendable versions of the threaded pole are available at Harbor Freight. They're about 3ft long collapsed, but extend to 9 ft long when extended. They're designed to extend paint rollers, but would make an excellent mast for your antenna.
What would be your best guess for the 2 meter and 70cm bands as far as length, spacing, etc? Great video --- easy to watch visually, great quality audio, no rambling, and straight to the point. Keep up the good work. Look forward to other videos you've made or will produce in the future.
Have you ever attempted to use one of these 20m noodles with a 49:1 transformer, effectively making it an endfed half wave on 40 m. So instead of having the break in the middle just feed it at one end and wrap the wire all the way to the other end
Thought about that. For 40m you'd need a noodle that was 4X the length of the 10m of course. That gets pretty unwieldy. With a 20m version I split the antenna into 2 noodles and stick the PVC tubes together at a cross and connect my coax thru a BNC to a pair of spade-type connector pairs for quick assembly/disassembly. That's big enough for me.
Hi Rudy, just seen this and suits me perfectly. I have a question. If it’s being used as a vertical antenna could you build it to have all 7 bandwidths on on length? I understand that if this was done you’d have 7 lengths of coax hanging down but putting that through two 4:1 selector switches and then a 2:1 switch do you think it would work. ? Thanks.
MAN, any vertical longer than 20m is gonna be HEAVY and have a ton of windage. You could just get a PVC 6-way cross and build a 20/15/10m version (3D) and wire it like a fan dipole (in paralle) and be done with it.
Hello Rudy, would there be any advantages of doing the pool noodle on a schedule 20 say 6in diameter pipe instead of the smaller diameter pool noodles? Im thinking larger diameter might allow for a little larger antenna and maybe better performance? What are your thoughts? Over the winter its hard to locate pool noodles in my local stores. kk7aim
So......does this mean you can work DX while lounging in your pool ? Something to think about ! Any chance to configure these into a multi band beam ? And if they fall over, what are they going to hurt....? Genius ! Congratulations !
About the biggest "array" I've built was a horizonal 20m and 15m on a 6-way cross with the ligher 10m going up vertically. Wired them in parallel just like you would for a fan dipole. A common-mode choke at the feed point will also help.
What would you think about using an air wound coil approximately 6 in diameter made from 1/8 in copper tubing (self supporting), with mechanism to expand or contract the coil, thereby changing its inductance enough to not only tune across the band, but also change from band to band ?
Hello Rudy, can you cover a bit on how you derived the dimensions of the wire helical coil of 80 turns for 20m? If you are using a 3" diameter, that 9" of wire per turn for 80 turns (I am assuming 40 per leg) or 360" on each side. Where as a typical dipole leg for 20m is approximately 16.64 ' or 33.27' for the whole antenna. Unless you are saying that the each leg is almost a half wavelength for each band, thus the approximately 30' for each leg for a 20m dipole. I hope this make a bit of sense, as I would like to construct one this weekend and give it a go. -Jason WV3V
Hi Jason. The 3" noodles are actually 70mm diameter. That gives about 8.6" per turn. For 10m that's about 18 turns with 1" EVEN spacing PER SIDE which will get you in the ballpark. Then trim BOTH ends EXACTLY THE SAME FRACTION OF A TURN (eg-1" at a time) until you get the lowest SWR (should be about 1.5). A 20m dipole will be about 2X the # of turns, and proportional for all the other bands.
Can one make a nonresonant EndFed Noodle with 9:1 UnUn plus choke at the feedpoint? Would need a counterpoise wire but it might be more multiband compared to a dipole design?
Yes, I've built one with 2X5''x4" OD noodles, 12 ga wire, a mess of ground radials and an LDG RT-100 remote tuner at the base. Loads up and seems to get out fine.
I am going to try and build one of these. Can someone clarify the winding directions for the two opposing half elements. Does winding in one direction mean winding the entire antenna and then splitting the conductor in half. Alternatively, does in mean winding one half from the end to the center, turning the noodle 180 degrees and then winding in the same direction. In the latter case the winding vectors point in opposite directions.
@@antennawhisperer-k7raw151 I have mine built. I have to trim it and test it. I will let you know how it turns out. The build itself was pretty straight forward and simple. I would love to see some plans for helically wound Moxon for the upper HF bands.
How would this work as an attic antenna in a 1-story house? Also, if making multiple noodles for different bands (like a fan dipole), would it matter orientation and which was higher than the others? Thanks for putting the instructions in the description! This is great!!!
Cordial greetings colleague Ruddi, I have been pleasantly surprised with this antenna project, could I publish a construction scheme of it, I think that there are many of us who are interested in a multiband antenna for small spaces. 73's Dx's
saludos Rudy, me interesa mucho tu diseño de antena pues está sería mi salvación pues dónde vivo no hay el más mínimo espacio para antena ni dentro ni fuera de casa. Necesito información para su construcción ya q es la ideal para mis condiciones. Gracias, 73'sDX CO2JH
Hi- Maybe I missed something. Why wouldn't the wire be almost 35 feet cut in half for a full wave at maybe 28.500 mhz. Where did 28 feet cut in half come from? I guess you can tell I'm pretty new at this. Thanks.
THe relatively tight turns of the helix delivers a LOT of inductance and shortens the effective electrical length anyway. So you need a lot more wire length to get back to resonance than a standard straight dipole.
The 20 m version...If you take the t in the middle bring the co ax out a different hole you can use the hole to put it up in the air on a riser like the painters pole. Hmmmm
C'mon man, it just AIN'T THAT BLOODY HARD! Just go get the parts, build it and then tune it up using an antenna analyzer. Realize that yo want to keep the lengths on both sides VERY close to equal, otherwise you'll have trouble getting a low SWR at resonance (that's your clue).
interesting concept a wire wound moxon . wind wire around a form moxon shape to reduce the size and see if you can get the good swr and moxon characteristics . I guess use a wood U shape form to wind wire on, then couple another end to it with spacing separation for best SWR- then perm fix. I would use 1/2 scale to start with 1 extra turn to see if it works.
Second thought use the noodles to form the moxon frame. then an unwound noodle section as the spacer between reflectors. The noodles would be super light. Noodles maybe for a mag loop idea too.
Hi sorry to bother you am from the east coast of the U K M6 PHS ham call I live in a flat with ni outside space can your pool noodle antenna work with an end fed wire I have a wire that goes from 80 to 10 meters with my ATU if it can be done will you be so kind as to help me by doing a diagram please thank you very much M6 PHS or better known as phil .
Dear Phil: Any NoodleTenna for bands below 20m will be HUGE, let alone trying to turn a typical 64' or 128' EFHW into a NoodleTenna (wire length is much longer to compensate for the capacitance of all the turns)
_”(scale the lengths for other HF bands)”_ Now if I can just find a *400 inch* long, *24 inch* diameter pool noodle for 80 meters … 😀 Or maybe a _”Slinkie™ dipole”_ *73 de AF6AS*
Yeah, I've built and tested a number Slinky dipoles but the biggest downside is that the spring steel Slinky has WAY too much ohmic resistance (otherwise known as a toaster coil) for my tastes.
@@rudiwiedemann8173 __ ... I wonder how much the efficiency would improve if someone had the ability to *COPPER PLATE* the Slinky? Factoring in _skin effect_ (at HF frequencies), this should have the same effect as making the entire thing out of copper. I'd be mainly concerned if the Slinky would be as springy with a thin coating of copper ... *73 de AF6AS in **_“DM13”_** land*
Well, if you consider 17 feet for a 10m antenna small, then that makes the NoodleTenna TINY in comparison. You can easily make a NoodleTenna for other bands such as 15m or 20, etc. Just make the number of turns on each leg proportional to the 10m version. For example, a 15m version would be about 30 turns per leg versus the 20 turns for 10m.
on the one hand, I absolutely love this project combined with its potential. However, the list of parts does leave something to be desired. I went to Lowes and Home Depot and could not locate the parts. Of course, I found the pvc 1120 tube, no problem. I found the pfc (3/4") T and the 90-degree elbow, also no problem. But the 3/4" flat-top plug (smooth) 2" long could not be found. The 3/4" pvc stub (T to elbow) 6" long could not be found. If a skew-number were available, then locating the parts would be easier. I think the problem is that everybody has their own terminology for the pvc parts. I have to say, I am stumped. (Certainly, the customer service people at the stores are stumped.)
The "flat-top 3/4" plug" is simply for mounting the feed line connector (BNC or UHF). Available most hardware stores. To connect the elbow to the "T" just cut a 2" length off the 3/4" PVC pipe that you slipped inside the Noodle. the "T" is to allow you to mount it vertically to some sort of a pole with an adapter (which you'll have to figure out on your own). You should add a 3/4 PVC cap to the top to keep it dry inside.
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You just peeked my interest again in home brewing wired antennas. Thank you.
Wow cool idea. Opens so many possibilities. 46 years a ham and you fed my brain thanks you are a rock star.
This is brilliant. I live in a condo and im getting my licence. Figuring out an antenna was giving me a real problem.
I'm sitting here with a big, stupid grin on my face. I am going to have to try this! Thanks for the video! : )
I like pool noodles. I use one for the form of the loading coil on my 15-40 meter portable vertical. It costs almost nothing, (compared to the ridiculously-priced commercial coils,) and allows me to easily adjust the tap on the coil. And the form has essentially no loss or added weight.
This is one of many things about Mateus radio…guys like you that never rest and continue to innovate. Thanks!
Its nice ti see that there are still hams out there that build their own antenna's rather than just buy some piece of junk. The Problem with most new hams is they have not had the privilege of an Elmer to teach them along the way. So they just buy what they need instead of experimenting and gaining knowledge and having the fun of seeing the fruits of their labors on the air. I have had that thrill for over 50 yrs and still get excited to build something and watch it work and see my creation create qso's good show. RudI!
Reminds me of the TV set-top curly dipoles of the 1950s/60s.
got to try this . them thunder and lightning days . just swop over and disconnect the outdoor danger . thats got to be a winner
Really well explained. Can you draw and post. It would be most useful. Great Job. And very detail explained.
Wow glad I found your video Rudi, I've been kicking around the idea of get my general, but I live in an HOA and have no space for large antennas, and needed something I can put up and down, and takes no space up. Your design would be perfect for me. You're the man.
No....WieDeMann! Ha Ha
Good for you! I’m absolutely chuffed and encouraged to have a go. I part laying around gathering dust, and so also suffering from terrible arthritis, I dare to call this approach therapeutic! 😅 Thanks for your kind easy going instruction too!
Great video and very cool design. As a new ham just over a year ago I've been exploring different antennas to build. Definitely on a budget so it's cheaper than buying new, tho I love building and then having the joy of using it makes it so much better. Thanks for the video, looking forward to more. 73's
This kind of reminds me of "The Heli-Rope Antenna" in the June 1971 edition of QST. Instead of a pool noodle, they use a much smaller form... rope.
Pool noodles are cheap, light, and have a nice large diameter to get lots of wire length in a compact form factor.
The cool thing about the Noodle is that it provides a great form to hold the turns at a controlled spacing while still being light, as well as providing stiffness (with the internal 3/4" PVC tubing).
Thanks Rudy for this inspiring project. I built it and tested it out. Made a fantastic QSO from Gibraltar to USA through this antenna. What I have found it to be too deaf, in other words it captures a lot of interference and over loads my icom 7300. The SWR was perfect on 40, 20, 15, and 10. In order to hear a qso I had to have them strong, say 5/7 to hear them at about 5/4, 5/6. 73's and welcome any feedback.
Yeah, that's probably it's biggest weakness. But all antennas are tradeoffs (especially if you include cost into the equation)
New fun project. Thank you for this video.
This is great! I’d love to watch a build video.
Thanks for your contribution to the hobby.
Why not show a sweep with an antenna analyzer to demonstrate the bandwidth and SWR? Also an on-air A-B comparison with a standard horizontal dipole would be a bonus.
Very ingenious design. Well done!
Terrific idea, and a clear well-presented video as well. I’ve subscribed and look forward to watching your future content. Well done!!
Hi Rudi, great video with lots of detail, very cool idea, i am a fairly new HAM and this is very inspiring!
Great video Ty
Nice construction👍
Looks a nice job but I would have liked to see it in action.
I concur, I was waiting for him to go ahead and transmit and receive
@@brandonlaragirl or put it on an analyzer and plot it.
I'm going to be traveling for training at a new job and was dreading not having my radio in the motels. My first week in the hotel I'm going to try to build one of these. Thanks!
Remoteley tunable Idea: if you could get a short steel rod with a motor drive near the base you could drive it up and down inside a region of tighter (closer-wound) coil turns to alter the inductance and give it some remote fine-tuning across a band.
The motor would turn a threaded rod and and work a bit like a screwdriver antenna.
The key thing is to move the steel bolt into and out of a section of tighter coils - in even-spaced coils there will be only marginal change is resonance.
Not sure if there are better materials to use(steel is lossy and kills Q) but a steel bolt is cheap and easy to find for an experiment
Each NoodleTenna dipole is a pretty broad-band resonant device in and of itself, so it should not need any tuner or adjustment.
Nice work, Rudi!
Not a bad looking antenna, too.
I'm looking for perhaps a magnetic mount for an indoor base in conjunction with the Baofeng UV5r radio.
So many ideas and many of these seem to work just fine.
Enjoyed watching, thanksv& take care...
The VHF and UHF antennas are already so short that you don't need to "coil them up" like I do here.
That's cool, looks like FUN and easy.😀😀😀
This sounds really cool to try .i like 40m . So this around 13ft . I will go with 3in pvc
Oh man, been there, done that. Gonna be HEAVY and will droop a ton when horizontal, and won't be stiff enough to self-support vertically (without some guy wires).
thanks my friend terrific job 73 from kb2uew
A great idea. Thanks for the video.
very cool! Genius my friend. Thank you!
Beautiful job Rudi! Thanks for sharing.
Great idea!
Hi Rudi!! I'm extremely excited to find your video! I've been considering using a set of pool noodles to create a helically wound cubical quad antenna. It would have some wind loading because of the noodles but (going out on a limb here) if we can reduce, for example, a 20m quad's radiating element from ~5m/side to ~1m/side (using your quote of a dipole 1/5 the normal size), that's a _HUGE_ reduction. That would even put a 40m quad within a reasonable size. I realize there's some inductance with a purely helical design but I think it's something that might be worth pursing. The nice thing about quads, from what I've read, is unlike yagis, they don't need to be 1/2 wavelength above ground.
I'd really like to know what you think of a purely helical wound quad, using pool noodles (and some sort of frame to support it, of course)? I'll check your other videos too! You definitely have a new fan here. (Due to uncontrollable circumstances, we lost our home a few years ago, with little notice and had to settle for a HOA condo so, antennas choices are slim.) Very best 73's!! Tnx de WB3CFN ...dit dit
The main idea here was a stealthier and more portable antenna for POTA and HOTA (HOA's-On-The-Air). Kind of like the next step from a hamstick dipole. There's LOTS of different directions to take this. I like the multi-band parallel dipole approach with 3 NoodleTennas on mast. The 10m vertical at the top, and two horizontal dipoles below that (15m and 20m). Then feed them in parallel just like a fan dipole. These are already are right angles to each other for good EM separation. Remember to use a good common-mode choke like 6-8 snap-on Mix 31 ferrites at the feed point with a tight fit to the coax.
I think that's pushing the concept a bit. BUT TRY IT.
First of all I can relate with you on the HOA challenges, which is the reason I developed this guy. I think any structure more complex than 2-3 of these (eg-10/15/20m on a 6-way cross) would be WAY too heavy, floppy and have huge wind loading.
Very interesting. I have not seen anything like it before.🍻
Man, I think I found my next project!
Interesting concept and construction. Thanks ! Subscribed to your channel ....73,WG7D
This looks cool, I may have to try it Thank You
I did something vaguely similar for wideband/shortwave reception. I am trying to research to see how I can improve it. I wound about 200 feet of #28 magnet wire around a piece of 2.5" PVC pipe going in one direction starting at the center, and did the same from the center going the other direction with another piece of #28. fed the two center wires to a 1:1 UNUN and connected that to my SDR. It works shockingly well. I just winged it though. I'm looking to play with techniques and wire lengths to see how it comes out. Very little information out there on this type of thing.
Magnificent ! Thanks for posting this !
Thanks for the great video! Subscribed.
Thanks 73
SIMPLY GENIUS!
Not really..just a standard dipole wrapped around pool noodles 🤷🙄..in fact, I think it's a pretty bad design, I can see those noodles melting if you run over 30 watts through that wire ..
I've pumped well over 100W into this (once tuned) and never saw signs of heating. I use 18 AWG hookup wire which is rated to handle hundreds of watts. The resistance of such a relatively short length is VERY low. Before you criticize, maybe you should first try building, tuning and testing one for yourself. You may be surprised. It IS a "compromise", but if you live in an HOA or on the 5th floor with only a balcony, it will get you on the air.
I like it . Thanks
Hey Rudy, great video. Is this QRP only or will it take 100W?
With the 18 guage wire you can easily run 100W
Thanks 👍
thank you for the video Allan G6TMO
Thanks Rudy! I built the 20 meter helical wound pool noodle dipole antenna. Attic installed application approx 30 from ground elevation using 14 awg steel fence wire, w/coax RF choke. Logged in to share a performance testimony. 20 meter/100watt/SWR 1:1, horizontally mounted, space weather propagation conditions average - contact a few days ago, upstate New York to Capetown, South Africa. The noodle gets the job done.😀 Question: have you determined if the antenna has a circular wave pattern and would the signal direction be perpendicular to the dipole or generate off the ends?
Good to hear you had that kind of performance. Any more updates for like 40m yet or are you still playing on 20m. Im asking because I think I am about to build one for 20 and 40m
@@k7ilo_Las_Vegas for now just the 20M. The set up is working great. No 40M as of yet but I do see one in the future. It's actually a pretty fun antenna to construct. I found using painters tape to hold the windings in place every couple of turns helps hold things in place as you wind the wire. Plenty of DX contacts on the cheap. Good luck with your builds.
A helical antenna this size won't radiate very much off the ends at HF. The circumference has to be close to the wavelength for a helical to fire that way. For 10m, that means the antenna has to be 3m in diameter!
This is NOT a "circularly-polarized" antenna. that would be a Travelling-Wave design (non-resonant) which this is not.
I had an elmer doing this on pvc pipe in 1980. He just liked to tinker.
I came across your video while looking for ways to build an inexpensive dipole for 40M. I'm a newer ham and was curious if this would work for NVIS. 73
Fantastic!
Brilliant 😍
Crusing youtube and found your channel. Love the idea of the antenna. One question how do you figure out the number of turns per band?
Just use 18 turns on a 70mm diameter noodle on each end for 10m version and scale linearly from there. 20m would simply be 36 turns at each end. Fold-back excess (DON'T CUT) to tune it to a higher resonant frequency. If your SWR never gets down to about 1.5, then you have a mis-match in wire lengths between the 2 ends.
If you start with my length or windings for 10m, just scale for the band. EG-20m would be 80 turns total.
Well, I started with 10m because it was easier to physically deal with. Then all the other bands just scale from there. If you change the turn spacing you'll have to change the number of turns to get into resonance.
How did you choose the 1 inch coil spacing? What is it's significance? What happens if it were changed?
I haven't taken the time to try different winding spacings. I went by my experience with Slinky antennas (MUCH more ohmic losses). Remember that the short you go, the less sensitive the antenna is on receive. I complement my NoodleTenna with a dedicated long-wire on my SDR receiver with a T/R switch into the rig.
You just need enough wraps to give you the electrical length it wants for resonance. One inch was convenient, that's all, nothing magic.
Hi Rudy, Very Interesting design. What is the Bandwidth like, is it High Q or does it cover the 20Meter band pretty well? I'm wondering if it would be a good attic antenna.
It has all the wide bandwidth characteristics of a typical dipole. I would NOT recommend putting in the attic as it already is challenged a bit on receive. Place it on your porch or balcony.
Thinking 2 Ele mini beam.
Great idea. How well does it preform
Great idea! FYI, extendable versions of the threaded pole are available at Harbor Freight. They're about 3ft long collapsed, but extend to 9 ft long when extended. They're designed to extend paint rollers, but would make an excellent mast for your antenna.
I use DocaPoles which are exactly that...telescopic painter's poles.
What would be your best guess for the 2 meter and 70cm bands as far as length, spacing, etc? Great video --- easy to watch visually, great quality audio, no rambling, and straight to the point. Keep up the good work. Look forward to other videos you've made or will produce in the future.
Those are already so short you don't need to "coil up the wire" like I do here.
Thanks for sharing, great idea .
I hope the next video is showing this ant on the air.
73 zl3xdj
Have you ever attempted to use one of these 20m noodles with a 49:1 transformer, effectively making it an endfed half wave on 40 m. So instead of having the break in the middle just feed it at one end and wrap the wire all the way to the other end
Thought about that. For 40m you'd need a noodle that was 4X the length of the 10m of course. That gets pretty unwieldy. With a 20m version I split the antenna into 2 noodles and stick the PVC tubes together at a cross and connect my coax thru a BNC to a pair of spade-type connector pairs for quick assembly/disassembly. That's big enough for me.
Never tried that, but you'd need a HUGELY long noodle! TRY IT!
Why degrade your radiated power with an UnUn when you can get resonance for free with a dipole?
Hi Rudy, just seen this and suits me perfectly. I have a question. If it’s being used as a vertical antenna could you build it to have all 7 bandwidths on on length?
I understand that if this was done you’d have 7 lengths of coax hanging down but putting that through two 4:1 selector switches and then a 2:1 switch do you think it would work. ?
Thanks.
If you're implying a multi-band version, see my comments here for a tri-bander version (20/15/10) all parallel fed off one coax.
Best way is a "3D cross" of 20m, on the X axis, 15m on the Y axis and 10m on the Z axis
MAN, any vertical longer than 20m is gonna be HEAVY and have a ton of windage. You could just get a PVC 6-way cross and build a 20/15/10m version (3D) and wire it like a fan dipole (in paralle) and be done with it.
Hello Rudy, would there be any advantages of doing the pool noodle on a schedule 20 say 6in diameter pipe instead of the smaller diameter pool noodles? Im thinking larger diameter might allow for a little larger antenna and maybe better performance? What are your thoughts? Over the winter its hard to locate pool noodles in my local stores. kk7aim
VERY heavy and not too stiff.
very good idea, and the antenna is very light. thanks for video. AG6JU
You should make a “linked” dipole pool noodle Dipole!
Could do. Or even a trapped longer version for 20/15/10. GO FOR IT!
Not a bad idea.
So......does this mean you can work DX while lounging in your pool ?
Something to think about !
Any chance to configure these into a multi band beam ?
And if they fall over, what are they going to hurt....?
Genius !
Congratulations !
About the biggest "array" I've built was a horizonal 20m and 15m on a 6-way cross with the ligher 10m going up vertically. Wired them in parallel just like you would for a fan dipole. A common-mode choke at the feed point will also help.
What would you think about using an air wound coil approximately 6 in diameter made from 1/8 in copper tubing (self supporting), with mechanism to expand or contract the coil, thereby changing its inductance enough to not only tune across the band, but also change from band to band ?
WOW, that would be big and HEAVY, not to mention pricey for all that copper.
Sounds complex and heavy (and maybe even expensive).
Hello Rudy, can you cover a bit on how you derived the dimensions of the wire helical coil of 80 turns for 20m? If you are using a 3" diameter, that 9" of wire per turn for 80 turns (I am assuming 40 per leg) or 360" on each side. Where as a typical dipole leg for 20m is approximately 16.64 ' or 33.27' for the whole antenna. Unless you are saying that the each leg is almost a half wavelength for each band, thus the approximately 30' for each leg for a 20m dipole. I hope this make a bit of sense, as I would like to construct one this weekend and give it a go. -Jason WV3V
Hi Jason. The 3" noodles are actually 70mm diameter. That gives about 8.6" per turn. For 10m that's about 18 turns with 1" EVEN spacing PER SIDE which will get you in the ballpark. Then trim BOTH ends EXACTLY THE SAME FRACTION OF A TURN (eg-1" at a time) until you get the lowest SWR (should be about 1.5). A 20m dipole will be about 2X the # of turns, and proportional for all the other bands.
Turned out to be trial-and-error. But the 10m formula scales to other bands.
Can one make a nonresonant EndFed Noodle with 9:1 UnUn plus choke at the feedpoint? Would need a counterpoise wire but it might be more multiband compared to a dipole design?
Yes, I've built one with 2X5''x4" OD noodles, 12 ga wire, a mess of ground radials and an LDG RT-100 remote tuner at the base. Loads up and seems to get out fine.
That's a cool idea. Thank you very much for the video. Out of curiosity, what wire gauge did you use? 73.
Plain old 18AWG stranded hookup wire.
I am going to try and build one of these. Can someone clarify the winding directions for the two opposing half elements. Does winding in one direction mean winding the entire antenna and then splitting the conductor in half. Alternatively, does in mean winding one half from the end to the center, turning the noodle 180 degrees and then winding in the same direction. In the latter case the winding vectors point in opposite directions.
Winding "handedness" on either side doesn't seem to affect performance.
I'e tried both ways, same direction AND opposing directions. Doesn't seem to make much difference.
@@antennawhisperer-k7raw151 I have mine built. I have to trim it and test it. I will let you know how it turns out. The build itself was pretty straight forward and simple. I would love to see some plans for helically wound Moxon for the upper HF bands.
Yeah, just wind ALL the turns and snip in half in the middle (what I did)
How would this work as an attic antenna in a 1-story house?
Also, if making multiple noodles for different bands (like a fan dipole), would it matter orientation and which was higher than the others?
Thanks for putting the instructions in the description! This is great!!!
You can definitely connect them at the center and feed them off a single coax like a fan dipole. Cluster them as a 3D Cross.
Attic antennas are already very compromised, especially on receive. I suggest using a porch or balcony.
Can you demonstrate using it on a radio?
I will try to do a followup with a field test. Would put all the doubters to bed.
Cordial greetings colleague Ruddi, I have been pleasantly surprised with this antenna project, could I publish a construction scheme of it, I think that there are many of us who are interested in a multiband antenna for small spaces. 73's Dx's
Please share whatever you learn. All will benefit.
Love it!!!!! AE4YW
Pure genius - this is the kind of thinking that you never see from the iPhone generation . Just sayin. 🙂
Wonder if you could build a reflector and director? Mini noodle beam!
That would be interesting but somewhat bulky for POTA and HOTA (HOAs-On-The-Air). I'm working on a trapped multi-band version (20m/15m/10m) instead.
@@antennawhisperer-k7raw151 Would like to see your multi band version
saludos Rudy, me interesa mucho tu diseño de antena pues está sería mi salvación pues dónde vivo no hay el más mínimo espacio para antena ni dentro ni fuera de casa. Necesito información para su construcción ya q es la ideal para mis condiciones. Gracias, 73'sDX CO2JH
Hi- Maybe I missed something. Why wouldn't the wire be almost 35 feet cut in half for a full wave at maybe 28.500 mhz. Where did 28 feet cut in half come from? I guess you can tell I'm pretty new at this. Thanks.
THe relatively tight turns of the helix delivers a LOT of inductance and shortens the effective electrical length anyway. So you need a lot more wire length to get back to resonance than a standard straight dipole.
@@antennawhisperer-k7raw151 Thank you
does it matter if you use mix43 or mix31 ferrite for this?
YES. Use ONLY mix 31 for the common-mode choke ferrites.
No radials required for the 20 M version? I like the design I would make an array 10-40
See comments for a 3-bander version.
how important is the coil spacing? could they be made tighter for 80m?
Not really. Closer coil windings will just require more wire length without substantially lowering the resonant frequency.
Could you make a beam antenna using elements like this?
Too heavy, bendy and wind-susceptible.
The 20 m version...If you take the t in the middle bring the co ax out a different hole you can use the hole to put it up in the air on a riser like the painters pole. Hmmmm
Exactly
Any chance of measured plans on PDF?
C'mon man, it just AIN'T THAT BLOODY HARD! Just go get the parts, build it and then tune it up using an antenna analyzer. Realize that yo want to keep the lengths on both sides VERY close to equal, otherwise you'll have trouble getting a low SWR at resonance (that's your clue).
how much dB loss does that poolnoodleantenna has compared to a straight wire ?
Hard to say. I'd estimate that there is some RF losses in the coil structure itself. I have not tested it against a known antenna performance on RBN.
What gauge wire? How much power will it handle?
I recommend 18 gauge stranded hookup wire (you know, the cheap kind) which will easily handle 100W
I am interested in compact antennas. Could a 10m helically wound Yagi or Moxon with gain and irectivity be built?
interesting concept a wire wound moxon . wind wire around a form moxon shape to reduce the size and see if you can get the good swr and moxon characteristics . I guess use a wood U shape form to wind wire on, then couple another end to it with spacing separation for best SWR- then perm fix. I would use 1/2 scale to start with 1 extra turn to see if it works.
Second thought use the noodles to form the moxon frame. then an unwound noodle section as the spacer between reflectors. The noodles would be super light. Noodles maybe for a mag loop idea too.
Google - W7XA 40m mini moxon beam antenna
All cool ideas. There are LOTS of directions to take the basic idea. GO FOR IT AND SHARE IT WITH THE GROUP.
An A-B comparison would have been great with another antenna.
You mean like a HamStick or a BuddiPole? Blows them away!
the suns uv rays will destroy the pool noodle in short order
Hi sorry to bother you am from the east coast of the U K M6 PHS ham call
I live in a flat with ni outside space can your pool noodle antenna work with an end fed wire
I have a wire that goes from 80 to 10 meters with my ATU if it can be done will you be so kind as to help me by doing a diagram please thank you very much
M6 PHS or better known as phil .
Dear Phil: Any NoodleTenna for bands below 20m will be HUGE, let alone trying to turn a typical 64' or 128' EFHW into a NoodleTenna (wire length is much longer to compensate for the capacitance of all the turns)
what is the power rating for the 10-meter antenna? it sounds interesting.
If you use 18 gauge or heavier you can confidently run 100W.
If you use 12-14ga wire you're good for 100W+
How long is that pvc pipe?
About 40" overall (for the Noodle) plus some to stick out the top or the cap and the bottom or the "T".
_”(scale the lengths for other HF bands)”_
Now if I can just find a *400 inch* long, *24 inch* diameter pool noodle for 80 meters … 😀
Or maybe a _”Slinkie™ dipole”_
*73 de AF6AS*
Yeah, I've built and tested a number Slinky dipoles but the biggest downside is that the spring steel Slinky has WAY too much ohmic resistance (otherwise known as a toaster coil) for my tastes.
@@rudiwiedemann8173 __ ... I wonder how much the efficiency would improve if someone had the ability to *COPPER PLATE* the Slinky? Factoring in _skin effect_ (at HF frequencies), this should have the same effect as making the entire thing out of copper. I'd be mainly concerned if the Slinky would be as springy with a thin coating of copper ...
*73 de AF6AS in **_“DM13”_** land*
Oh MAN that thing is going to be huge and droopy, even if you build it in 2 halves.
Can you get a match to your radio...yup. is it going to be efficient...not so much
It's at least as efficient as a Hamstick or BuddiPole.
Yup. They ain't worth beans either. Yes. Something is better than nothing. But get the best efficiency you can
Ten meters antennas already are small. How about making one for 40 or 20 meters?
Well, if you consider 17 feet for a 10m antenna small, then that makes the NoodleTenna TINY in comparison. You can easily make a NoodleTenna for other bands such as 15m or 20, etc. Just make the number of turns on each leg proportional to the 10m version. For example, a 15m version would be about 30 turns per leg versus the 20 turns for 10m.
He shows a 20m antenna at the end.
on the one hand, I absolutely love this project combined with its potential. However, the list of parts does leave something to be desired. I went to Lowes and Home Depot and could not locate the parts. Of course, I found the pvc 1120 tube, no problem. I found the pfc (3/4") T and the 90-degree elbow, also no problem.
But the 3/4" flat-top plug (smooth) 2" long could not be found.
The 3/4" pvc stub (T to elbow) 6" long could not be found.
If a skew-number were available, then locating the parts would be easier. I think the problem is that everybody has their own terminology for the pvc parts. I have to say, I am stumped. (Certainly, the customer service people at the stores are stumped.)
The "flat-top 3/4" plug" is simply for mounting the feed line connector (BNC or UHF). Available most hardware stores. To connect the elbow to the "T" just cut a 2" length off the 3/4" PVC pipe that you slipped inside the Noodle. the "T" is to allow you to mount it vertically to some sort of a pole with an adapter (which you'll have to figure out on your own). You should add a 3/4 PVC cap to the top to keep it dry inside.
Soldered no silent L
Sorry but a coiled radiator cannot be as efficient as a full sized radiator.
better than nothing in an apartment
actually surprising close to a wire dipole on the transmit side, and a little less efficient on the receive side.