I really appreciate this sermon and how it was presented. This is how I remember sermons teaching when I joined the SDA church. Mat God continue to use you and your ministry Pastor Bohr
Praise the Lord. Thank you Pastor B. Truth must be told. It is truth that brings young people and anyone else to Jesus and not the music of the world of today. May God continue to raise voices who will maintain the truth of our special, peculiar message and mission till the end. Amen.
The first and second comment from Ellen White he brings up is speaking to praise music's purpose and how the music for that intent should not be frivolous but focused. Agreed. The Indiana camp meeting comment has everything to do with non-focused and uncoordinated loud chaos. If you read the passage, it is clear that there was no clear unity in the music. The passage has no comment on the style or rhythm. The main takeaway there is that the Spirit is not present in a loud and chaotic atmosphere. Agreed. Science has much to say on music effect on the body. I've really looked into it, and I can say with full honesty in the presence of God that I have found no studies proving negative health effects because of any specific musical style. The conclusive evidence has shown that if someone does not enjoy certain music, and in general a certain sound, that listening to it does put them under stress. I'm willing to assume Bohr is just misunderstanding these studies rather than the alternative. I actually really love Bohr. He's one of my favorites. Considering the range of poetic art describing the human condition in the Bible, I think God allows for far more creativity than some of us puritanically inspired Adventists would like to admit. It is clear the Bible makes no comment on which instruments or rhythms are appropriate, and as a matter of fact, danceable music was often played by God's people in the Bible. Here's the catch that most frivolous, non-thinking liberal adventists don't catch though. Music still has to be appropriate for its purpose. That is reliant on Melody, Harmony, Rhythm and the Lyrics if any. This is where responsible God-fearing musicians need to step up and be honest with themselves. Are you playing this for yourself or for God. What is the appropriate vibe, not what vibe do I want. Be honest with yourself and God. As we should hold our elders to a high moral standard, so to should we with our music leaders. If that means such and such a church only sings hymns because Mrs. Whatserface only believes hymns are what is appropriate. That is fantastic. I LOVE hymns. If we stop outsourcing or skimping on our music leaders, choose them prayerfully, and hold them accountable like any other church leader, we sill no longer have brother soandso rocking out during the middle of worship service because that character will not be allowed to lead in music. Only responsible Christian musicians should be allowed to lead. If you don't feel comfortable with an honest praise song with some solid syncopation that is actually making everyone feel the correct vibe of awe and graciousness that we should feel when we worship God. That is perfectly fine. Preferably we will have music leaders that understand the range of music taste in the congregation and NOT cause a brother to stumble, in which case the music leader should er' on the more conservative side so that he does not cause strife. If you happen to be visiting a church, however, whose congregation is on the same page in worship, and you don't feel comfortable, observe and think carefully before accusing others of violating some Biblical principle when it comes to music. If you've read this far and feel a little flustered, I ask of you, first, before responding, listen to All I Can Say (Thank You) by PlanetShakers. Use that as yoyr example. There are plenty of bad examples of selfish, self glorifying musicians out there, and TBH PlanetShakers may be one of them. A song is a song, however, and whether you are ignorant or not about a songwriter's attitude, does that have any effect on the objective quality of the song itself. Personally, I don't think so. The previously mentioned song is very simple, very honest, and very heartfelt. I personally think God smiles when a congregation sings this with conviction.
AT LAST!!!!!!! Someone actually writing something of substance. There is too much pseudo going on. Pseudo-science, pseudo-theology, and unfortunately those who do not buy into it are seen as heretic, or as too worldly.
I wish most of our churches would listen to this. These guys are not playing the drums they are pounding the drums, and some of the leaders are not paying attention.
I have been Adventist all my life, but we only ever seem to talk about music negatively; it always tends to be about knocking different types of expression. Many people are not interested in just continually being told what they are doing wrong. That’s counterproductive and divisive
@@kenburtonmusic2 We must note that in matters of truth and right, the majority are not always right. People want to hear pleasantries only. Yes we should praise the good, but must not be quite over what is wrong. We must remember that whatever we do that does not represent the Character of God and the standards approved by heaven, is sin.
@@dr.ekelenwankwo You say we must not be quiet over what is wrong. Absolutely. There is no dispute about that. But that is my point. We are only talking about what is 'wrong'; there's no shortage of people talking about wrong, because they talk about it more than what is right. So even when I make a point about being positive, we still have to gravitate towards talking about wrong! There is nothing spiritual about talking about the wrong all the time. Jesus pointed out sins, BUT showed a better way, and lived a better way. He said "I have come to bind broken hearted, give freedom, release prisoners, comfort those who mourn...." etc..., he spoke about what he could replace the captivity, and darkness, and mourning with! My point is that we seem to just want to talk about the darkness. We do so because it is more satisfying to point out what is wrong, than to offer solutions. It is more satisfying to do videos and be tabloid and sensationalist than to offer proper education.
God has not forgotten His people. These messages are to whip us into spiritual readiness. I once attended a church where the progression or decline was very subtle. When the music began at the end of the service, the women would be the dancing. I was often ashamed because I knew that this was not the offering God wanted Another thing that has infiltrated the worship service is the applauding of individuals who serve, whether it is the preacher or the musicians or the singers. I often feel that I am in a concert hall and not in a worship service. Who are we honoring? The fellow worshiper or God? What about Amen, praise God, or hallelujah.
That's up to you to answer. What you are doing is observing the behaviour of others and making a judgment about what it is. If I applaud, who told you it was for the singer? That is an assumption. Worship is a two way thing. Each individual must know and connect with God as an individual. This means that they may be like a very expressive David, or a much more quiet Daniel, or like Mary , or Miriam who broke out in song, or they might be like Hannah, very still and quiet. You are certainly correct that we should be exclusively God focused and not person focused. But where we all need to be careful is when we start deciding that someone is not God focused because their behaviour is different from the 'expectation'. In the presence of God, angels fly - they are moving. They are crying out 'holy'. They are veiling their faces. The sound of their crying out makes the foundations shake. The descriptions of worship in heaven would have us on RUclips and Facebook criticising the noise, the lightning, the rainbows, the shaking floors, the repetition (John says 'day and night the angels sing the same words'). Have we mistaken the way the early Christians, and the Hebrews worshipped for the new religion invented by Constantine, which was all about controlling the people? The Psalms, which I have been slowly reading, and re-reading, over a year, and which we studied in the first quarter, reveal a lot about the honesty, openness, freedom with which people expressed themselves. It was reverent, holy, and appropriate, but it was not necessarily still, and quiet.
A-men! Thank you Pastor Stephen Bohr for this timely and much needed information/education on Church/worship music. These principles are what I was taught in college in the early seventies in our Church music for worship class. By the mid- eighties I was observing almost every principle fall to the ground, totally ignored, overthrown by Contemporary Gospel music, Only years later did I understand the influence of Vatican 2 in this. Pastor Jan Marcussen's Catholic Charasmatic Attack on the SDA Church was useful in this regard. It is still available on RUclips. Check it out you all. It's eye opening.
I have a passion for music and when I hear "contemporary gospel" and the beat it comes with, the derogatory music comes to mind and not everything that is recorded as gospel music i listen to as soon makes me feel more vile than calm and relaxed
Quite a few years ago I listened to a tape recording where the speaker stated that the Satanists and etc. realized that they could not introduce their songs into the Christian churches, so they put forth effort to introduce their music to the Christian songs into the Christian churches-and they felt sure of their success!!!!
Someone who had been in the occult was the late Roger Morneau; he speaks of his time in the Satanic temple, and said that they used to sing the same hymns as from the local church hymnbook! Satan is seeking the glory which belongs to God, and so he tries to take what belongs to God and seek to divert it for his own glory. So it is not as straightforward as saying "this is of God" and "this is of Satan". EVERYTHING in this world was created by God, so it all belongs to God. The enemy is a counterfeit and knows that if it was totally different people would not buy into it. He tries to use the same.
It's not necessary to quote from the Bible. Quoting from the Bible is only necessary when you are teaching something Biblical. There are over 1100 mentions of a musical word in the Bible - there is so much to choose from, so when someone is presenting about music and does not use the Bible, we can safely conclude they are teaching the doctrines of men!
Excellent sermon that can be appreciated by persons willing to learn and be led by the Holy Spirit.
Absolutely!
Thank you, pastor! Glory be to God and God alone! All the saints sing to the Lord in a great harmony with the angelical host! Hallelujah! Amen!
I really appreciate this sermon and how it was presented. This is how I remember sermons teaching when I joined the SDA church. Mat God continue to use you and your ministry Pastor Bohr
Love this presentation. We need reformation in our church music.
Praise the Lord. Thank you Pastor B. Truth must be told. It is truth that brings young people and anyone else to Jesus and not the music of the world of today. May God continue to raise voices who will maintain the truth of our special, peculiar message and mission till the end. Amen.
Hallelujah for Gods truth to elevate our minds to honor our King‼️
The first and second comment from Ellen White he brings up is speaking to praise music's purpose and how the music for that intent should not be frivolous but focused. Agreed.
The Indiana camp meeting comment has everything to do with non-focused and uncoordinated loud chaos. If you read the passage, it is clear that there was no clear unity in the music. The passage has no comment on the style or rhythm. The main takeaway there is that the Spirit is not present in a loud and chaotic atmosphere. Agreed.
Science has much to say on music effect on the body. I've really looked into it, and I can say with full honesty in the presence of God that I have found no studies proving negative health effects because of any specific musical style. The conclusive evidence has shown that if someone does not enjoy certain music, and in general a certain sound, that listening to it does put them under stress. I'm willing to assume Bohr is just misunderstanding these studies rather than the alternative. I actually really love Bohr. He's one of my favorites.
Considering the range of poetic art describing the human condition in the Bible, I think God allows for far more creativity than some of us puritanically inspired Adventists would like to admit.
It is clear the Bible makes no comment on which instruments or rhythms are appropriate, and as a matter of fact, danceable music was often played by God's people in the Bible.
Here's the catch that most frivolous, non-thinking liberal adventists don't catch though.
Music still has to be appropriate for its purpose. That is reliant on Melody, Harmony, Rhythm and the Lyrics if any. This is where responsible God-fearing musicians need to step up and be honest with themselves.
Are you playing this for yourself or for God. What is the appropriate vibe, not what vibe do I want. Be honest with yourself and God. As we should hold our elders to a high moral standard, so to should we with our music leaders. If that means such and such a church only sings hymns because Mrs. Whatserface only believes hymns are what is appropriate. That is fantastic. I LOVE hymns.
If we stop outsourcing or skimping on our music leaders, choose them prayerfully, and hold them accountable like any other church leader, we sill no longer have brother soandso rocking out during the middle of worship service because that character will not be allowed to lead in music. Only responsible Christian musicians should be allowed to lead.
If you don't feel comfortable with an honest praise song with some solid syncopation that is actually making everyone feel the correct vibe of awe and graciousness that we should feel when we worship God. That is perfectly fine. Preferably we will have music leaders that understand the range of music taste in the congregation and NOT cause a brother to stumble, in which case the music leader should er' on the more conservative side so that he does not cause strife.
If you happen to be visiting a church, however, whose congregation is on the same page in worship, and you don't feel comfortable, observe and think carefully before accusing others of violating some Biblical principle when it comes to music.
If you've read this far and feel a little flustered, I ask of you, first, before responding, listen to All I Can Say (Thank You) by PlanetShakers. Use that as yoyr example. There are plenty of bad examples of selfish, self glorifying musicians out there, and TBH PlanetShakers may be one of them. A song is a song, however, and whether you are ignorant or not about a songwriter's attitude, does that have any effect on the objective quality of the song itself. Personally, I don't think so.
The previously mentioned song is very simple, very honest, and very heartfelt. I personally think God smiles when a congregation sings this with conviction.
AT LAST!!!!!!! Someone actually writing something of substance. There is too much pseudo going on. Pseudo-science, pseudo-theology, and unfortunately those who do not buy into it are seen as heretic, or as too worldly.
Hallelujah🙌 when the Holy Spirit is speaking through a man you can not find faults in his message
I wish most of our churches would listen to this. These guys are not playing the drums they are pounding the drums, and some of the leaders are not paying attention.
I have been Adventist all my life, but we only ever seem to talk about music negatively; it always tends to be about knocking different types of expression. Many people are not interested in just continually being told what they are doing wrong. That’s counterproductive and divisive
@@kenburtonmusic2 We must note that in matters of truth and right, the majority are not always right. People want to hear pleasantries only. Yes we should praise the good, but must not be quite over what is wrong. We must remember that whatever we do that does not represent the Character of God and the standards approved by heaven, is sin.
@@dr.ekelenwankwo You say we must not be quiet over what is wrong. Absolutely. There is no dispute about that. But that is my point. We are only talking about what is 'wrong'; there's no shortage of people talking about wrong, because they talk about it more than what is right. So even when I make a point about being positive, we still have to gravitate towards talking about wrong! There is nothing spiritual about talking about the wrong all the time. Jesus pointed out sins, BUT showed a better way, and lived a better way. He said "I have come to bind broken hearted, give freedom, release prisoners, comfort those who mourn...." etc..., he spoke about what he could replace the captivity, and darkness, and mourning with!
My point is that we seem to just want to talk about the darkness. We do so because it is more satisfying to point out what is wrong, than to offer solutions. It is more satisfying to do videos and be tabloid and sensationalist than to offer proper education.
Thank you Pastor received with joy
You are welcome. Thanks for watching
Amen praise God. Wonderful
Thank God for this sermon. Am answer to my prayer
Thank you Pastor for the wonderful message
Thanks very y for this message pastor, for God has given me a testimony on this very subject to condemned the today music in many of our churches.
Am truly blessed thank Christ for your Minister
Praise God! I needed to hear this. 🙏 thank you
Thank you Pastor Bohr for the presentation, it will help those who need understanding but it will hurt they ignorant.
You're speaking the truth...those music reminds me of my past and ghe world 🌎, where I'm coming from.
God has not forgotten His people. These messages are to whip us into spiritual readiness.
I once attended a church where the progression or decline was very subtle. When the music began at the end of the service, the women would be the dancing. I was often ashamed because I knew that this was not the offering God wanted
Another thing that has infiltrated the worship service is the applauding of individuals who serve, whether it is the preacher or the musicians or the singers. I often feel that I am in a concert hall and not in a worship service. Who are we honoring? The fellow worshiper or God?
What about Amen, praise God, or hallelujah.
That's up to you to answer.
What you are doing is observing the behaviour of others and making a judgment about what it is.
If I applaud, who told you it was for the singer? That is an assumption.
Worship is a two way thing. Each individual must know and connect with God as an individual. This means that they may be like a very expressive David, or a much more quiet Daniel, or like Mary , or Miriam who broke out in song, or they might be like Hannah, very still and quiet.
You are certainly correct that we should be exclusively God focused and not person focused. But where we all need to be careful is when we start deciding that someone is not God focused because their behaviour is different from the 'expectation'.
In the presence of God, angels fly - they are moving. They are crying out 'holy'. They are veiling their faces. The sound of their crying out makes the foundations shake.
The descriptions of worship in heaven would have us on RUclips and Facebook criticising the noise, the lightning, the rainbows, the shaking floors, the repetition (John says 'day and night the angels sing the same words').
Have we mistaken the way the early Christians, and the Hebrews worshipped for the new religion invented by Constantine, which was all about controlling the people?
The Psalms, which I have been slowly reading, and re-reading, over a year, and which we studied in the first quarter, reveal a lot about the honesty, openness, freedom with which people expressed themselves. It was reverent, holy, and appropriate, but it was not necessarily still, and quiet.
Amen Praised God
A-men! Thank you Pastor Stephen Bohr for this timely and much needed information/education on Church/worship music. These principles are what I was taught in college in the early seventies in our Church music for worship class. By the mid- eighties I was observing almost every principle fall to the ground, totally ignored, overthrown by Contemporary Gospel music, Only years later did I understand the influence of Vatican 2 in this. Pastor Jan Marcussen's Catholic Charasmatic Attack on the SDA Church was useful in this regard. It is still available on RUclips. Check it out you all. It's eye opening.
Well said pastor
This is a timely message, pastor. God bless you🙏🏽
Amen! Glory to God.
Good job pastor
Beautiful music 🎶
I have a passion for music and when I hear "contemporary gospel" and the beat it comes with, the derogatory music comes to mind and not everything that is recorded as gospel music i listen to as soon makes me feel more vile than calm and relaxed
Aman help us Lord.
Thank you for making this so plain.
Quite a few years ago I listened to a tape recording where the speaker stated that the Satanists and etc. realized that they could not introduce their songs into the Christian churches, so they put forth effort to introduce their music to the Christian songs into the Christian churches-and they felt sure of their success!!!!
Someone who had been in the occult was the late Roger Morneau; he speaks of his time in the Satanic temple, and said that they used to sing the same hymns as from the local church hymnbook! Satan is seeking the glory which belongs to God, and so he tries to take what belongs to God and seek to divert it for his own glory. So it is not as straightforward as saying "this is of God" and "this is of Satan". EVERYTHING in this world was created by God, so it all belongs to God. The enemy is a counterfeit and knows that if it was totally different people would not buy into it. He tries to use the same.
Amen!
Amen
Pastor that was a heavy sermon. Thank you in Jesus name for it, but this is encouraged by the leaders because they do nothing about it when its done.
Share the links to the book " worship at Satan throne" by pastor Bohr
Try quoting more from the Bible.
It's not necessary to quote from the Bible. Quoting from the Bible is only necessary when you are teaching something Biblical. There are over 1100 mentions of a musical word in the Bible - there is so much to choose from, so when someone is presenting about music and does not use the Bible, we can safely conclude they are teaching the doctrines of men!
@@kenburtonmusic2 So what he is teaching is not biblical.. okay....