Keep me in prayer. I was apart of a church almost ten years ago that really pushed the lordship message and it has led to a lot of despair and frustration.
my problem with lordship salvationist is when I point out thier sin and the fact that Jesus is NOT "lord" of thier life they : 1) deny that thier sins are even sins 2) deny that thier sins are bad sins 3) they tell me not to judge.....while they go ahead and judge others.
Also Brother they excuse their own sin as not being 'habitual' or 'wilful', one that they 'fell into' but didn't 'run into'. A total cop out. Truth is that whatever is not done in faith to the Glory of God is sin (Romans 14:23) is sin. How short we all fall. Lordship 'salvation' is essentially neo-nomianism with a flimsy view of what constitutes sin.
This is a truly excellent and understandable explanation of the biblical basis for the Free Grace view. The PowerPoint was very helpful. Will recommend to all, including the Jewish believers in Messiah I work with.
@@gregorylatta8159 Yes, it is a significant reduction from and I have major misgivings about the Crossless gospel. I fully and emphatically accord with the Free Grace Alliance position.
Jesus is Lord God Almighty clothed in unsinful humanity and He is the author of eternal life to all who trust Him alone for salvation. Saving repentance is realizing that you are a sinner deserving of God's just punishment in Hell and turn (repent) from whatever you trusted in before, if indeed you trusted in anything; to trusting in the person and finished work of Christ alone for salvation.
While there are a few Presbyterians who are free grace, Calvinism has the danger of being recycled Roman Catholicism if focus transfers from the reason for our salvation to the personal proof of our salvation.
Like every other ism debate, most people end up on extreme ends that are both wrong. This debate is not much different than that of the pharisees and sadducees.
we are saved by faith/trusting christ ALONE to save us. repenting of sin is keeping the works of the law as...."sin IS the breaking of Gods law". the bible says " by WORKS OF THE LAW shall no flesh be saved", and "those who are of the works of the law are SEVERED from christ". JUDAISM teaches we are saved by repenting of sin and keeping Gods law. JUDAISERS which the bible condemns are those who add repentance from sin/keeping the law to faith in christ for salvation!, biblical new testiment salvation is by faith ALONE in christ for salvation, IF you are trusting in your lawkeeping/repenting from sin to be saved you are NOT a christian. paul says IF you are depending upon keeping the law for salvation you are FALLEN FROM GRACE!!. the judaization of christianity is the greatest evil in the church today. .....NOW, am I saying we should NOT repent of sin or live a holy life or disobey christ??? NO NO NO!!!.....the bible teaches and commands that we repent of sin and live a holy life but NOT FOR SALVATION!!, WHY? becouse james 2:10 says " IF we keep ALL of Gods laws buy break just ONE we are guilty of ALL!!!......so obeying christ 99% is NOT good enough!, living for god 99% of the time is NOT good enough for salvation! trust christ ALONE for salvation and HIS rightousness not your own rightousness!.
@@timmysaxon-qe5of I have, abiding in christ means having faith in christ ALONE to save us....read romans 11 warning about being cut off from christ/God by not having faith OR by leaving faith. we are to strive to be faithful to christ but having faith in christ (abiding in christ) is NOT the same as being faithful to christ (keeping the law). WHY? becouse NO ONE is 100% faithful to christ 100% of the time which is what God requires IF you want to be saved by keeping the law.
@jamesba-xd7xf funny how skipped over the 1st 8 verses. Jesus is the true vine, and the father is th vinedresser, and we are the branches. Any branch that doesn't bear fruit is cut down and thrown in the fire. Verse 16 says you did not choose me, but I chose you to go out and bear fruit and that your fruit remains. Romans 10:9 if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus Christ and believe in thy HEART that God has raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved. For with the HEART man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made to salvation. I know a lot of free gracers throw out this scripture and only use ephesians 2: 8 and 9 and that is correct works alone cannot save you, and grace is a gift from God and so is faith a gift from God but the very first verse of the chapter tells us that we were dead in our sin and God made us alive, which totally proves that the unregenerated man does not have the desire or ability to come to Christ unless as the scripture says God has made him alive.
@@timmysaxon-qe5of God chooses everyone but most reject god. if God chooses us but we dont bear fruit is it becouse we choose not to bare fruit or becouse God predestined us not to bare fruit??
Lordship salvation proponents believe that our committment, our works, our obedience, and our turning away from sin are not the basis upon which God declares sinners righteous. They believe that Christ's righteousness imputed to the believer is the only basis upon which God declares sinners righteous. They do not add human works to God's grace. Moreover, they believe that their perseverance does not get them into heaven.
LS says that the absence of outward, visible works disqualifies one from being a believer. Outward, visible works must be present to enter heaven on LS.
@@2Chronicles714_ you don’t make Jesus lord, he is already lord…your problem is that you judge people only by the outward sins but ignore the more serious sins like pride, hatred, jealousy and self righteousness that is much much worse. So by looking only at the outward sins, the LS are foolishly making salvation confusing and that is the work of satan
@@ronsmith3523 How can you separate making Jesus Savior and making Jesus Lord? We all serve either Jesus or satan there is no in beteeen.. How did you arrive at that foolish conclusion about what I believe about sin?
everything this man says turns around a false definition of the 'Gospel' - Christ's grace has no reality in our lives unless we let the Spirit convert our harts and way of life
Free Grace View is only atonement into the church NOT salvation, only past sins are forgiven to give access by faith, and just shall live by faith. The deficiency is you cannot have grace before a life of faith. I have a Ytube video series 'Myths in so-called Christianity' for the truth of the NT.
Wrong bud. So Jesus died, suffering on the cross for me but only to pay my debt up and to the point I was saved? The Bible says we are gifted eternal life when we believed on the FINISHED WORK of Christ on the cross. Do you know what eternal means? How about biblical repentance? It means change of mind. Atonement is not limited. Read your Bible. It says he died f-r the remission of all of my sins, not just till salvation and then it’s up to my righteousness, which the Bible says is as filthy rags before the Father. The Bible says we are not saved or kept saved by our works.
@@Jesusandcoffee3382 I have news for you and many others, Christianity has many misconceptions about the Cross, Jesus said he died for the remission (reduction) of sins. His death changed the covenant of Moses to allow atonement of past sins, and entry into the church and sanctification, which is a covenant brought about by the Cross to indirectly bring salvation for those sanctified. The misconception is that any grace was given at the Cross to directly forgive sins, but Jesus had to be raised as high priest to atone for sins, his sacrifice changed the covenant to allow him to be our judge. There are many false teachings on different aspects of doctrine as part of this misconception, so I have a Ytube video series 'Myths in so-called Christianity' for the NT truth.
@@simonskinner1450His death offers forgiveness of sins. His resurrection guarantees life. If He didn't raise from the dead, we would be forgiven, but there would be no eternal life.
Keep me in prayer. I was apart of a church almost ten years ago that really pushed the lordship message and it has led to a lot of despair and frustration.
Praying for you Drew. I've been in that despair before also.
Finally! A free grace RUclips channel. GOD BLESS YOU
I have been seeing a few more pop up. Mine is free grace by the way. God bless.
@savedsinner412 I now have a personal RUclips channel at @BibleAndTheologyMatters
my problem with lordship salvationist is when I point out thier sin and the fact that Jesus is NOT "lord" of thier life they :
1) deny that thier sins are even sins
2) deny that thier sins are bad sins
3) they tell me not to judge.....while they go ahead and judge others.
Also Brother they excuse their own sin as not being 'habitual' or 'wilful', one that they 'fell into' but didn't 'run into'. A total cop out. Truth is that whatever is not done in faith to the Glory of God is sin (Romans 14:23) is sin. How short we all fall. Lordship 'salvation' is essentially neo-nomianism with a flimsy view of what constitutes sin.
dead on...
This is a truly excellent and understandable explanation of the biblical basis for the Free Grace view. The PowerPoint was very helpful. Will recommend to all, including the Jewish believers in Messiah I work with.
@messengersmessianicjewisho1058 thanks for the kind feedback and sharing it with those that you think would benefit from it!
God bless you, Dr. Weaver. In LatinAmerica the «lordship salvation» dominate the scene. The free grace of God must be preached!
Agreed. Thanks for the kind words!
Great overview of the subject presented here. I'm firmly on the Free Grace side in it's classic expression.
Thanks for the kind words! I am glad you are persuaded to the Free Gace position!
Verses the crossless gospel version, right???
@@gregorylatta8159
Yes, it is a significant reduction from and I have major misgivings about the Crossless gospel. I fully and emphatically accord with the Free Grace Alliance position.
@@bloodboughtbigphilr8266 Praise Jesus!!!
If you don't have the Gospel right, you got nothing! Thank God for His unspeakable gift!
My children were heavily involved in Campus Crusade for Christ, and that is where they were first introduced to 5 point Calvinism.
Jesus is Lord God Almighty clothed in unsinful humanity and He is the author of eternal life to all who trust Him alone for salvation.
Saving repentance is realizing that you are a sinner deserving of God's just punishment in Hell and turn (repent) from whatever you trusted in before, if indeed you trusted in anything; to trusting in the person and finished work of Christ alone for salvation.
While there are a few Presbyterians who are free grace, Calvinism has the danger of being recycled Roman Catholicism if focus transfers from the reason for our salvation to the personal proof of our salvation.
Paul, thanks for taking this stand and doing it in a gracious way. Blessings
@danhanshew4957 thanks for your kind words!
Excellent, Dr. Weaver.
Thanks for the kind feedback @kennymacclure5371!
Thank you so much for this!
Thanks!
Very clear explanation!
I thought Jesus said for eternal life, keep the commandments.
Are you related to ex-pastor Jack Weaver (owner of expreacherman blog)?
You get it right. What now? It's all words still.
Classical free grace theology is the closest to scripture. Not the crossless gospel version.
Like every other ism debate, most people end up on extreme ends that are both wrong. This debate is not much different than that of the pharisees and sadducees.
we are saved by faith/trusting christ ALONE to save us. repenting of sin is keeping the works of the law as...."sin IS the breaking of Gods law". the bible says " by WORKS OF THE LAW shall no flesh be saved", and "those who are of the works of the law are SEVERED from christ". JUDAISM teaches we are saved by repenting of sin and keeping Gods law. JUDAISERS which the bible condemns are those who add repentance from sin/keeping the law to faith in christ for salvation!, biblical new testiment salvation is by faith ALONE in christ for salvation, IF you are trusting in your lawkeeping/repenting from sin to be saved you are NOT a christian. paul says IF you are depending upon keeping the law for salvation you are FALLEN FROM GRACE!!. the judaization of christianity is the greatest evil in the church today. .....NOW, am I saying we should NOT repent of sin or live a holy life or disobey christ??? NO NO NO!!!.....the bible teaches and commands that we repent of sin and live a holy life but NOT FOR SALVATION!!, WHY? becouse james 2:10 says " IF we keep ALL of Gods laws buy break just ONE we are guilty of ALL!!!......so obeying christ 99% is NOT good enough!, living for god 99% of the time is NOT good enough for salvation! trust christ ALONE for salvation and HIS rightousness not your own rightousness!.
You should read John chapter 15 about the vine and the branches.
@@timmysaxon-qe5of I have, abiding in christ means having faith in christ ALONE to save us....read romans 11 warning about being cut off from christ/God by not having faith OR by leaving faith. we are to strive to be faithful to christ but having faith in christ (abiding in christ) is NOT the same as being faithful to christ (keeping the law). WHY? becouse NO ONE is 100% faithful to christ 100% of the time which is what God requires IF you want to be saved by keeping the law.
@jamesba-xd7xf funny how skipped over the 1st 8 verses. Jesus is the true vine, and the father is th vinedresser, and we are the branches. Any branch that doesn't bear fruit is cut down and thrown in the fire. Verse 16 says you did not choose me, but I chose you to go out and bear fruit and that your fruit remains. Romans 10:9 if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus Christ and believe in thy HEART that God has raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved. For with the HEART man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made to salvation. I know a lot of free gracers throw out this scripture and only use ephesians 2: 8 and 9 and that is correct works alone cannot save you, and grace is a gift from God and so is faith a gift from God but the very first verse of the chapter tells us that we were dead in our sin and God made us alive, which totally proves that the unregenerated man does not have the desire or ability to come to Christ unless as the scripture says God has made him alive.
@@timmysaxon-qe5of God chooses everyone but most reject god. if God chooses us but we dont bear fruit is it becouse we choose not to bare fruit or becouse God predestined us not to bare fruit??
@jamesba-xd7xf there again you refuse to address scriptures 1 thru 8 the true vine and the branches, why?
Lordship Salvation or Free Grace Theology? None of the above.
Both are systematics and propositional not participatory knowledge.
Lordship salvation proponents believe that our committment, our works, our obedience, and our turning away from sin are not the basis upon which God declares sinners righteous. They believe that Christ's righteousness imputed to the believer is the only basis upon which God declares sinners righteous. They do not add human works to God's grace. Moreover, they believe that their perseverance does not get them into heaven.
On the contrary, Lordship salvation heretics say that making Jesus Lord and Master of your life is a salvation issue.
LS says that the absence of outward, visible works disqualifies one from being a believer.
Outward, visible works must be present to enter heaven on LS.
@@colonalklink14
How can anyone claim Jesus as Savior but not make Jesus Lord of their life?
@@2Chronicles714_ you don’t make Jesus lord, he is already lord…your problem is that you judge people only by the outward sins but ignore the more serious sins like pride, hatred, jealousy and self righteousness that is much much worse. So by looking only at the outward sins, the LS are foolishly making salvation confusing and that is the work of satan
@@ronsmith3523
How can you separate making Jesus Savior and making Jesus Lord?
We all serve either Jesus or satan there is no in beteeen..
How did you arrive at that foolish conclusion about what I believe about sin?
everything this man says turns around a false definition of the 'Gospel' - Christ's grace has no reality in our lives unless we let the Spirit convert our harts and way of life
Free Grace View is only atonement into the church NOT salvation, only past sins are forgiven to give access by faith, and just shall live by faith. The deficiency is you cannot have grace before a life of faith.
I have a Ytube video series 'Myths in so-called Christianity' for the truth of the NT.
Wrong bud. So Jesus died, suffering on the cross for me but only to pay my debt up and to the point I was saved? The Bible says we are gifted eternal life when we believed on the FINISHED WORK of Christ on the cross. Do you know what eternal means? How about biblical repentance? It means change of mind. Atonement is not limited. Read your Bible. It says he died f-r the remission of all of my sins, not just till salvation and then it’s up to my righteousness, which the Bible says is as filthy rags before the Father. The Bible says we are not saved or kept saved by our works.
@@Jesusandcoffee3382 I have news for you and many others, Christianity has many misconceptions about the Cross, Jesus said he died for the remission (reduction) of sins. His death changed the covenant of Moses to allow atonement of past sins, and entry into the church and sanctification, which is a covenant brought about by the Cross to indirectly bring salvation for those sanctified.
The misconception is that any grace was given at the Cross to directly forgive sins, but Jesus had to be raised as high priest to atone for sins, his sacrifice changed the covenant to allow him to be our judge.
There are many false teachings on different aspects of doctrine as part of this misconception, so I have a Ytube video series 'Myths in so-called Christianity' for the NT truth.
@@simonskinner1450His death offers forgiveness of sins. His resurrection guarantees life. If He didn't raise from the dead, we would be forgiven, but there would be no eternal life.
That's ridiculous since the Church is the body of Christ and the Bride of Christ. That would mean that Jesus will marry a Bride with parts missing. 😂
@@simonskinner1450remission is a cancellation of a debt or charge or penalty.