*Thanks for watching!* Let us know what Campaign and GM you are in the comments below! Check out FarSight Sci-Fi RPG here, definitely one to consider for your collection: lightfishgames.altervista.org/
Thanks again for the video Guy! I have a video suggestion for you: How to make things personnal for the PC? How do you evoke emotions, how do you intensify their motivation, their hate for the BBEG or the importance an adventure has to them? I want to take my epic campaign and make it also personnal for the PCs to enhance the experience, and erase that feeling of railroading. I want the epic campaign to feel as a personal tale for any PC that was played in any epic campaign. Would be even more epic in my opinion.
You say you have a great creative mind for epic campaigns, you love playing it because you're good at it. Remember, we can put the events and NPCs and everything that structures the epic campaign anywhere you like, So let the players drive the story and do the things they want to do, and revolve those epic events in a player campaign as seemingly "random events" from the players actions. so basically Epic over arching campaign (players can't know this) / Player Campaign mix! You can do it!
For a simulationist campaign, I would say bad idea on doing it as one of the base level ones like your video discusses here. I would more consider it an idea for on the list of styles in an open campaign.
Another great video! After watching videos for a year I finally ran my first campaign a couple days ago, and it was amazing! This video is great because my style differs from my husband's, but I couldn't explain how before. He's an epic storyteller with factions and intrigue, but I am more player centric. I don't feel original enough to design this epic tale, but I can hopefully do some fun monster of the month adventures with sprinklings of pc growth. I guess I want my campaign to have a strong finish character by character rather than a climactic ending. And if a BBEG emerges somewhere along the way, great!
I think I would be more interested in playing a personal player campaign, but running one (if I ever get the confidence to do so, and have the dedicated time to run one) I would go for epic campaign as I can see big cinematic story worlds in my head.
I would cally campaign an "evolving campaign". It's kind of similar to an open campaign, but all the smaller story arcs connect to each other amd in the end move towards a singular conclusion and probably a singular BBEG. But neither I nor the players know the full story when it started. It just evolves over time.
I'm currently running a campaign like that too. Where every choice matters, as such they have defeated multiple BBEG's, killed evil gods that stood in their way. There is a world ending evil at the end of the campaign that the players are actively trying to keep sealed away. Started the campaign January of 2020, the players didn't want the campaign to end so they set up a guard over the seals and are running around trying to turn the world into a utopia. So the ball is in their court as when they want the campaign to end. Sorry for the rambling reply. ^_^
This is how I run it, an overarching story with background details that hint towards a narrative, but the individual adventures are only loosely leading toward it until the end.
I think you missed one. "world building campaign" the characters explore the territory and thus the players learn about the world. after a dozen stories, the players create new characters and enter an established world. the previous characters may be npc's or even used again. each time the characters interact in the world, the world expands. it's very rewarding for all involved to see the game world grow due to the players exploring and adventuring.
I've been thinking to use Fiasco for this - populating the game world with juicy NPC villains, ones who (the same!) players will know inside out when dealing with them later in the main campaign. Never thought to spend more than a oneshot for that.
Seems to me this would be a version of an Open campaign. If you are simply exploring then your campaign, session to session, would be very flexible and you would have a multitude of choices in where you go and what you do as a player.
@Darren - I would agree, however the process of world building involves developing the npc's, politics and antagonists to the empire(s) the characters are interacting with. this is far more indepth than simply running around and seeing what the characters can find that Interests them.
I like campaigns and i cannot like, the adventures can't deny, when the gm walks in with a decorated case and throws character sheets in your face you get SPRUNG. Cause you notice that case was stuffed, deep in the dm guide they're glaring, the other players can't stop staring OH DEE EMM I wanna roll with ya, and hear your scripture. The npcs tried to warn me but that campaign you runs got me so horny.
I kinda feel like the ideal campaign is kind of all of these, an epic over arching story set in an open sandbox that ties in the players histories. Like I am aiming for an open campaign that is character driven and includes a big bad at the end. But who that big bad is up to who the characters gravitate too.
I find the easiest way to make a campaign like this is to give the PCs a sort of hit list of multiple BBEGs that they will need to defeat all of in order to accomplish their goal. Order doesn’t matter of course.
Exactly this. If you are not incorporating all of these things together it is going to be a bad time and players will be bored just following any single type. Like he said epic is railroad and linear and players will want a break from this singular pursuit all about thwarting the BBEG. Also they will be bored without any real goal to strive for in the future So having a over all story arc re appearing from time to time pointing them toward something is a must also. And for the love of god you better include player driven and backstory throughout your entire campaign. It doesn't have to be about them all the time because they will also get bored or feel pressured. Also you don't have to tie everything together, that will give you a headache and possibly a heartache if it all falls apart. Leave some unanswered questions and loose ends as you go this will allow you to tie or not tie things together. A Okay DM follows a single campaign arc. This DM you will join because your bored and have nothing else to do. A Good DM follows 2 of these campaign arcs This DM you would join again even if you have other things to do. A Great DM follows all of these arcs. This is a DM you will be asking them when they will be running something again.
I adore this approach and also favor it myself. It's also possible to add a little bit of open campaign flavor if you have an arc where the goals can be done in different orders (kinda like most BioWare RPGs), or you can add little breather episodes here and there that may not tie directly into the either the players' arcs or the main plot of the epic campaign, but may earn them something useful to see those things through, like a powerful weapon or a base of operations.
I do this too. Some storylines will happen along the way, after need or development, and some will be an unrelated bad guy or monster - but the overarching arch is based on the player backgrounds or ambitions.
@@TheKansleren I try to be "a fan of my players" so I don't clown on them for crit fails. What I have been known to do recently is that sometimes a crit fail will reveal a new villain or storyline. It often happens with a psionic character that pulls unwanted attention with her telepathy.
@@storytellersteerpike4452 i cant remember who i got this from. But i have my players describe how they fail and give them inspiration when they roll a 1
I've always been fond of the X-files approach, where some adventures are one offs, but some significant number of adventures are geared toward learning of/dealing with the "big bad". This gives a certain amount of freedom to either experiment with types of adventures or to buy time when working on the details of what the "big bad" is up to next :)
I would say that I generally run epic campaigns, but I also like to dig into the player's backstories and narratives to weave them into the game as well.
I run my games similarly to games like breath of the wild or skyrim. There is an open campaign to play around in with an epic campaign in the background. The open campaign is used to strengthen the players via sidequests and arcs so that they can take on the epic campaign.
My friends have trouble doing one-shots. They turn from one-shots to adventures to campaigns, but the DM tends to link things up. They just thought we would get trough it faster. We spend the first couple of scenes just RPing between the players and slowly crawl through his amazing story.
My style of GMing is usually a hybrid between Epic and Character campaigns, usually with an emphasis on Epic elements. My last campaign was almost a Textbook Epic campaign, and everyone (including me) loved the ending, and some players cried tears of joy at the end. It was comparable to my Magnum Opus, D&D wise.
I've just started GMing! I have an epic campaign in the plot, but at session zero, learning the characters the players made, I realised I wanted to know more of their backstories and weave them into the plot.
Something you can do for this then is play it as a Player campaign for a few levels, then through those sessions note what makes the characters tick. After those first levels you can slowly work in the BBEG and transition in to an Epic campaign with Player elements. Not only can this help you players figure out their own characters, but the BBEG can be more organic and realistic in their motivations against the party. This also makes it possible for the BBEG and any associated lieutenants to have knowledge of the party and what makes them tick.
A good option is make an epic campaign, but every 3 or 4 sessions, depending on player count and other stuff, have a player orientated session. This way the characters get sessions where everyone is equally the main character, but then they also get ones where they are the side character and ones where they are the only main character. And if you can find a way to make their stories progress the whole plot that's even better. I played in one group where the GM was talking about one time a month having a bonus session with only half the players. And have them do a smaller story that affects them more specifically. It never happened because other things. Point being there are definitely good options and ways to combine the different styles.
I get you with the tears. One of our players plays a naive, big, dumb lug (with often surprising insights) but he tells these daft stories about mythical creatures that are really funny, until you read between the lines, and you realise it's about death and abuse the character lived through as a child and you just want to give the character a huge hug.
@@paulkemp8520 Woah I LOVE that! I think TTRPGs can be very therapeutic for processing our feelings or examining how we react to the world around us, and it seems like this character is the embodiment of that philosophy.
@Luke McGovern I think it primarily depends on the group, and I'm fortunate enough to have a wonderfully tight knit group of friends as my players. But as for what the DM can control? I would say: - Establish a judgment free zone where players are really free to be vulnerable. - Run a player focused campaign, as described here. My "Epic sprinkles" was when they realized that the overarching BBEG was responsible for tragedies in all their backstories. So be Epic, but make it personal. - Encourage players to invest in your world. Let them have S/Os, get married, buy land. I'll draw art of their characters, and sometimes commission other artists to as well as a surprise! At that point? They're in deep. Once an ethical delimma comes up, or their NPC lover drops to 0 HP in combat, you have players on the edge of tears and willing to sacrifice life and limb. The only downside: my group of four PCs travel in a group of ELEVEN once you count the NPCs they brought along. So... I hope you have a lot of different voices prepared.
@@BigCowProductions ok, Im not sure how much it'll help, but the one I remember best came about when an NPC was telling us some gold was going missing. Muk says, "ah, sounds like a gold snaffler, nasty buisyness that", and we are like, "nah, it sounds like embezzelment, whats a gold snaffler anyway?". So Muk says "my family would work hard in the tribe all year, and would squirrell away all the gold we could in a secret place. Sometimes the gold snaffler would come and eat all out gold and kiddnap me dad. He could be missing for weeks but eventually he would come home. Strange thing is he would have new clothes, and stink of booze and perfume, strange thing that". Sorry its the only one I remember
i only ever made player campaigns, and i really liked how you described the problems i had every single time, players swiching caracter or not coming during their caracter arc
I feel like, as the accidental campaign, many kinds evolve into eachother. I had an epic campaign planned which then turned into a player focus game as we went on and I found it was more interesting for my group when I involved their pasts.
Just learned that my campaign i am running is a mixture of the first three types in this video, the players stories are woven into the epic campaign, with the occasional stand alone adventure thrown into it - never thought about it until i saw this video - thanks! :-) For us this campaign format works best, one year in it, maybe another to go.
I love campaigns and I cannot lie. You other DM's can't deny. When there's a tear in your eye, remembering all who died, and the epic ballads the late bard has sung
I ran a few adventures with my friends using The Strange, where every adventure is a different mission given by their boss (they work for an organization called The Estate). Each mission is disconnected from the others but some NPCs can reappear from time to time. I feel that this is the best way to run this RPG system and I've been having a blast so far. The fact that every adventure can take place in a different world definitely helps in making each of them feel more unique. I don't know if it fits the mold for Open Campaign or Accidental Campaign though, I have a hard time distinguishing the two.
I did hit that like button. You earned it again, Guy. Thank you for helping me to better understand my own habits and why my games all run like one shots. I wasn't aware there were so many accidental GMs either until I saw that poll you posted.
Absolutely the epic. I love tying everything together and plotting behind the curtain what the adversaries will do in response to the player's actions.
Simulationist campaign works very well for one particular scenario - 1. You have a group of players who are experienced in and thoroughly invested in your world (either because you've run a consistent world for a really long time or you're running a widely known world with few changes from established canon) 2. You've demonstrated a rigid adherence to the mechanics of your given game system so that the players can be confident that if they perform X action, Y result will occur. When this occurs, you get a group of players who act in the best interest of their characters working within a framed system to create some pretty amazing stories. If I'm being honest, it's my preferred playstyle, but It is EXTREMELY difficult. As a GM, you need to have so thoroughly developed the world that the players interact with that it is capable of reacting organically to both what the players do and what they don't do, often with little warning as to what that might be because they aren't following your plan. Nice players will give you some advance warning as to what their plan is. As players, you need to know the ins and outs of the system almost as well as the GM does, because the GM in this style will not hold your hand as you push against his NPCs. If your technical improv isn't up to snuff, it'll snatch immersion away almost instantly. I love it, it's absolutely incredible when it works, but it's hard to pull off and easy to screw up.
The current campaign I'm running (currently level 3, almost 4) is an open campaign that I plan to have slowly build up to being an epic campaign. So during the lower levels they are exploring the world like a sandbox learning more and more about the setting until the big bad becomes the main focus of the campaign (plan on having that occur around level 7-9). I set up 4 different secondary big bads for them to discover and deal with in the meantime. Surprisingly they already dealt with one without even realizing it. They are current searching for the one they already killed and I can't wait to tell them that they killed him a dozen sessions ago lol
I've been running an accidental simulated open-epic-player campaign for years now. Over the years they built their own guild, defeated a god, and traveled through time while playing as the bad guys. Each new playgroup added to the story, some joining the guild, some going on their own way, but all painting the blank canvas I gave them. They created a masterpiece.
that´s the same style I want to make. In my group we have two DMs for two campaigns (we both are new and so we can help each other and have breaks to plan ahead. I my Campaign will start I think Mai or June. at first the will the experience the emergency of all the Beastfolk-races (pretty much all Races which are part animal z.B Tabaxi, Lizardfolk.... except Dragonborn they have their own story) and after that I will see how they formed the world.
Enjoyable and informative. I tend to run a hybrid of sorts. My campaigns start as open until my players reach a certain level and then I begin introducing the BIG BAD and move into an epic campaign. It did take practice to figure out the balance and knowing when the players are ready to move on. Just like different DMs there are different players and play styles. Great content.
This video gave me a great insight into how all of my friends and I have played roleplaying games over the years. I can see both sides and I realize a lot about how I really appreciate certain types of campaigns and I can definitely pick out the types my friends like as well.
Great video! I find myself currently running a campaign that is along the lines of Open but has an overarching Epic story tied into each/most of the adventures they are doing. The players are playing adventurers apart of this agency that contracts out adventurers to do jobs and the players pick what contracts they want to take so it feels like it is very open and they get to choose their own path etc. BUT they are uncovering a greater plot at hand with each contract that they take so it is leading to a greater story and greater antagonist. Im doing this because I'm at college rn amd people come and go for the semester or summer or whatever and it is easy to say that they are off taking other contracts so they can come back at the same level as everyone else and hop back in when they come back. Been working so far!
I enjoyed the video a lot, thanks! I'm currently running a "simulation" campaign where the party owns a company set to colonize a "new world". Session one began with them setting sail, and we've had seven sessions so far filled with ocean exploration. I ran this by creating an over-arching world, kind of like how you described making an epic campaign, but instead of one BBEG, there are numerous factions with their own motivations. Then I let the players have at it! Something that's really helped is to create "epic" style villains for each faction (a leader and their captains for example). The party finally landed last session, and I'm planning on running the mainland more or less as a hex crawl (6 miles per hex). I've created encounter tables for each of the faction territories to make them feel unique, and seeded each hex with at least one hook (a cave, ruins, etc.).
This video although consisting of stuff I thought I already knew actually gave me a revelation as to why I didn't enjoy the session I played in earlier this week. Thanks.
One of my longer campaigns, about 4 years, mostly every two weeks to monthly, started out intending an epic campaign but evolved into more of a mix of character driven & open because my big bad was ill conceived and remote and they revelled in picaresque adventures that were their own ideas. Sometimes adventures came out of their plans, sometimes I started an idea and ran with it. Lots of memorable stuff, but eventually died to group composition losses as people moved, broke up, etc.
This was interesting. I actually typically run hybrids of these various campaigns and have run into just the various strengths and weaknesses Guy describes: My first campaign (in my modern, post Eighties/Nineties gaming career, which kicked off in 2016) was a Starfinder campaign. It was initially *disguised* as an open campaign and the first few adventures seemed episodic, but I had elicited detailed backstories from all my players and within the structure of the *epic* campaign that I had actually planned, we had *player-focused* adventures in which everyone got a shot at the spotlight. Once we reached a conclusion to my originally-planned epic arc, it then became an *accidental campaign* b/c we wound up deciding to play up to level 20 (fortunately, I had seeded a backup BBEG for just this eventuality in the earlier adventures). That campaign never felt too railroad-y b/c there was enough "play," enough give-and-take in the narrative and enough episodic interludes, to ensure that they got to do other stuff than just battle the BBEG. We did have players decide to switch characters, but it never felt like that derailed anything b/c player-focused adventure was only part of the general menu and no *one* character was ever such a focus that their loss could derail the whole campaign. It was built to feel at points like "open" adventure but never so open that our sense of purpose fell out, and their "open" adventures inhabited enough of a structure that they could see and feel the impact they were making on the world from one arc to the next. And the epic arcs delivered b/c they had enough breaks from the bigger arc that returning to it always felt fresh and urgent. Not all of these things paid off equally, and it was different for different players. Some players really were there for the player-focused arcs and appreciated the epic inasmuch as it touched on that arc, but occasionally found the epic-ness to become a grind. Some players were really *not at all* there for the player-focused stuff but just wanted to be part of an epic narrative, and no-sold attempts to involve them in their own adventures. Some players tried their best to sell the player-focused stuff but it made them anxious, and they were really more at home in any of the other modes. Some of them were just happy to Do Cool Shit no matter what the adventure mode was. On average, I think it worked out. I'm trying on a similar balance of elements in my follow-up campaign, but it has a much more specific "epic" rebels-taking-down-a-tyranny arc (and also a simultaneously scarier and more nebulous "there's-also-this-weird-alien-threat" arc akin to the White Walkers in Game of Thrones or, more accurately, the Consult in the Prince of Nothing and Thousandfold Thought books by R. Scott Bakker). The balance of elements still seems to be working okay and I have a better sense of who is into what (and some of the players have grown in confidence and are trying new things, which is always fun). I'm only struggling with one player/character, whose arc revolves entirely around Revenge for His Hometown Overrun By the Tyranny that the shape of party choices in the larger arc has kind of neglected. That's a concern, and there is definitely going to be no "accidental" element this time around -- we'll be lucky to get through all the story road we need to traverse in 20 levels -- but otherwise balancing a few campaign types against each other in a larger framework is still working for me. I would argue that this parallels the way stories in television have evolved. A lot of them mix epic narratives, short-arc and episodic storytelling, "open" narratives and character-driven stories in just this way. That's actually where the idea came from for me. Be interesting to hear Guy's perspective on that.
I did find this video "vaguely stimulating." Thanks for asking. ; ) I definitely fall into the Epic camp ... with the palette-cleansing side trip every so often. Very good overview.
I'm currently running a player campaign. One of the bigger difficulties is connecting character goals into something all players will be interested in. So I tend to connect the dots and always ask the players for their long and short term goals. If we're working on a long-term goal of one of the characters, I always try to make sure to give attention to short-term plans of others, so that no one loses interest. I have absolutely awesome players who give me great opportunities to connect their backstories. Example? We need to find an npc from character A backstory. To do that, we visit character B home island since the head of the state there is from the same guild as character A. And then in turns out that character C has relatives there. On the way there we meet long lost father of character D. When I plan the campaign I feel more like solving a puzzle than doing something from scratch, since my awesome players always give me some source material in form of their backstories. And if a player decides to switch characters, I have a guarantee that they will still be interested in finishing the current quest, because all of the stories are connected in one way or another.
Your channel has been invaluable as hell for my adventures and learning how to GM, hopefully i can consider myself a great gm but i found that your paradigms were good structures but didn't fit exactly in a way that i was comfortable in epic campaigns. I found myself as modifying your principles that I naturally am a player focused gm (and i'm blessed with a static group that loves those types of adventures)
Thank you Guy. This was exceptionally helpful for me to think about how I run, when my campaigns succeed and when they peter out, why they do so. I would note you didn't give a DM style for 'accidental' campaign, which I would consider a GM who relies heavily on extemporaneous talents and reacts to the others at table. Regarding simulationist play, your channel is and always has been about narrative play wherein the players (via the PC personas) descriptively solve situations and (at least theoretically) the clatter of dice could never be heard. Simulationist play focuses on how the players use the rules-defined abilities of the PCs to outwit the rules-defined abilities of the NPCs with a fortune mechanic to mix things up. To compare the two is to carefully judge between a penguin and a giraffe. Thanks again and I look forward to more great content.
My current gm is pretty great at making an epic campaign feel like a player campaign. He sprinkles in quests for our characters stories to progress all the while giving us a fantastic bbg at the same time
Up until recently, my campaigns were almost all Accidental (I was a very reluctant GM who only did it if no one else was willing). Wasn't until recently that I started doing an Open one with hints of Player, and it's been interesting. A LOT more work, but it's been rewarding so far.
The best campaigns I've been part of have been some combination of "player" and either "epic" or "open". We can weave in player stories along the way, or even as part of the central story in most campaigns.
It’s great to be so conscious of things. I realized I almost always do open campaigns, even though I always wanted to tell epic campaigns. Of course, Cthulhu one shots are natural exceptions. Thank you, this has been missing so far!
My current campaign is a hybrid of the first three. Player focuses that bleed into an epic storyline and an open adventure that allows them to build thier personality and defines the setting that lets them understand the world and the epic setting.
I love running the transitional mixer campaign: a blend of all four. An open campaign that has an epic campaign that gradually unfolds as a slow burn sub-plot before exploding into a final arc. The campaign itself is largely structured around the individual stakes and goals of the players with their personal arcs being resolved along the way. After the final arc resolves the campaign continues on as a free-form sandbox where the players get to traverse the planes and explore the endless horizon. We've managed to run several games like this and have even had games that ran for years on this structure. It's really good for long-form games but involves a lot of cooperation between all people involved. Lone wolves don't do too well in these sort of games. As far as playing (which I never will ever again) all four are really fun. I've had amazing experiences will all four of these types of campaigns. You break down the pros and cons of all four styles really well here! This was very useful in giving me some more perspective on how I might want to focus and structure my games in the future.
I definitely run Epic campaigns with Player elements to it. One of my favorite things during a campaign is to subtly place hooks in to a character without them realizing I have done so, then setting the hook suddenly with a couple well placed descriptions. I get a variety of reactions ranging from wide eyes and mouth covering to a player actually realizing the significance of what I am saying and blurting out, “Oh, shit. No. Nope”, to the occasional tear.
as someone who tends to make a mix of epic and player campaigns, can attest to the weaknesses. I had one that had a huuuge overarching story that needed all of the PC's to work and then one of them left for good and the game died two sessions in. _Two._ The one campaing I'm running right now is an open one, simply because I don't have a big bad in mind yet. Sure I have the PC's personal boogeymen up my sleeve and ideas for personal adventures, but no end goal.
My favorite type of campaign is a combination of thr first three. Think of it like Buffy the Vampire Slayer or any of those types of shows. Some episodes are "lore" episodes and progress the plot, but a good portion of them are just "monster of the week" episodes and some of the episodes explore the main characters more. You can do similar things in a campaign where some adventures are just random adventures the party is going on for rewards or other reasons, some adventures end up forwarding the plot, and sometimes the pcs have to face a rival from their backstory. Sometimes these adventures appear to be one kind of adventure, but are revealed to be another kind by the end. Doing a campaign like this is a lot of work bc it requires you to be at least decent at being all the types of gm, but it covers most of the weaknesses of the individual styles
One challenge I've found, having been running an "open" episodic campaign lately, is that there are minimal excuses available to reuse ideas/enemies. When I'm feeling creatively energetic it's great, because I get to do wild new stuff every episode, but when I don't have as much time or energy, it can be a little difficult.
On the simulationist thing, if you have the players for that you'll know. The moment you mention the difference in tax codes from location to location, or why the war has ravaged the economy and not bolstered it. You'll confirm this when they start working out how to abuse this by buying armor in one town for dirt cheap then upping the price as they get near the warzones or places which have crippled logistics chains. I have a close friend like this and I'm that guy as well... our other DM who does Epic campaigns narrows his eyes at us in ways we can feel when we start swindling NPCs.
This is quite interesting! Using the D&D 5e rule set, I am currently world building for an epic campaign that I will be adding elements of the player campaign type to hide the fact that it is an epic campaign. In a doctor who rpg setting, I have started planning an epic campaign and disguising it as an open campaign. I’m excited to see how quickly the players piece together the clues.
I am currently planning a large scale campaign that would mostly align with your "open" style, but also will include elements of "epic" and "player". My approach is to plan out the world and lots of plot hooks and give the players a lot of agency in choosing what to do and how to do it, shaping what will become the story. It will be made with the party in mind, so there will be lots of points made to involve character backstories, promote growth, test flaws and let them shine.
Thank you for this. I have watched you for a while and I keep failing at getting an epic game going and I felt like a failure. Apparently I'm an open GM and I can get behind that.
I love all the videos. I take notes always and meditate on the ideas! From this particular video, I believe that all campaigns are not waterproof, so you can mix and match the benefits with the weaknesses of two or more types. Do you like to run a epic campaign? alright, do some open-world quest in the middle, so it doesn't get too rail-roady. Or mix some of this middle cornerstones with some considerable advance in a PC backstory, so it is also character driven. So on and so forth
My campaign has evolved since it began last year. It started as an accidental campaign meant to be a one-shot. We grew attached to the characters and settings and decided to continue in this world. I wanted to build on one character's backstory, so that features significantly, but it also evolved from my original villain towards an epic campaign. I also threw in some random ideas for adventures that I had that only retrospectively tied in with the main story. Sometimes even one of the other players is DMing another story set in the same world and everything is allowed in terms of plot direction. So there you go, an accidental player-focused open epic campaign 😁
There is another, probably a meta style for this video, which is a mix of the first three which is more of a balance of them. Think of the Babylon 5 TV series though the 1990s as an example. There was an epic story line with episodic plot lines to the season midterm of 5 or so episodes along with those that are resolved in the same episode as resolved. The three types of plots are wound together through the series along with character growth focusing on the various characters where a plot line would be focused for a particular character. It is my job as a DM to weave these while giving a spot light to a character story plot line, keep them also moving along the main line goal as well. This allows the plays not to be bored on a single plot line while giving a different player there time in the sun. Yes, this took a bit more work, but gave a mix up to the players along with some unexpected twists.
I tend to run epic campaigns, but I mix in the player campaign aspect of it by focusing on PC's goals and endeavors throughout the epic campaign. Everyone gets their time in the spotlight!
I’m at the beginning stages of my epic campaign. I do like to do a lot of character stuff so I’m taking care to weave their backstories into the larger narratives as much as possible.
My DMing style of campaign is like a Frankenstein version of all four of those. I start the campaign with a big bad in mind, but rarely plan out passed the next few adventures in how the party gets there. This lets us go on crazy side-quests that bloom out of nowhere and try accomplishing some of the characters personal goals along the way.
Nice thoughts! I think there's another dimension relevant to this matching between the GM's and campaign's types: how much the GM can commit to a campaign. As you said in the begginning, life sometimes get in the way and we may abandon that awesome story the group had been building. I've been favoring open campaings recently for this reason. We can enjoy great adventures in short spans and the GM can and should throw their best ideas ASAP while there's a low cost of abandoning the story after any one of those adventures. Also, if you eventually find yourself running a long term game you can always find a way to tie everything up and give it a nice conclusion: if you ran a series of loosely related adventures, you can conclude the story as an epic campaign but if you linked the adventures through PC's story developments, you can conclude it as a player campaign.
I was actively learning using your channel as my guide from the very beginning, so I have weaved my natural tendency to do player-focused campaigns with epic ones. It's all about linking it all together. Inclusion of characters and their personal stakes had increased their buy in. As for simulation, I'm not a person for numbers, however I am a programmer, so I believe that simulation can create a great story, given the right configuration. Dwarf Fortress had created histories using procedural generation. So I believe that an epic campaign can be ran inside a simulation-style campaign. It's less likely to personally weave into each PCs back story, it might not challenge PCs character flaws, but it can be truly epic, considering that anything can happen. Easy ways to beat the boss using his vulnerability, difficult enemies in a starting location, and many more things that players will be making stories of
I'm an Epic/Player GM. My campaign itself is an Epic, but I weave player backstories into the campaign itself and into arcs within the overarching campaign to give each player the focus for 3-8 sessions. My players love it and so do I. It's a TON of work to pull it all together, but it's an absolute blast when it all comes to fruition with each arc. Lots of dopamine hits lol.
Very interesting take, I kinda wanna try an open campaign style now, as we have a group that is very social and quickly rolls over into humor and chit chat. I think that style might be well suited for that?
What about "Living World" Campaigns? A Series of mini campaigns (3-4 sessions) or a handful of one shots that develop the common world that your players play in. Each story takes place in a different part of the world, where the players help sculpt its history, customs, and legends. This is where the Setting is the star of the story.
Accidental campaign here that evolved into an open/episodic campaign. It was meant to be a oneshot with monstrous races as the PCs where i sometimes could run missions for them if our main campaign had a slow month...this has now become a full blown campaign closing in on 3 years and is the one campaign we have that is going strong and close to finishing with an end in sight. Due to the accidental nature the PCs didnt really get fleshed out backstories or gotten them weaved into the adventure so we put a lot of energy into the connections they build here and now instead.
This was weird, everything here made sense but I was sort of unaware these themes existed despite clearly falling within the lines as I played. This will go a great way to bettering my games!
Thank you for doing such a great job of crystalizing and clarifying the different types campaigns. You're a real gem...Pardon the pun. I myself typically blend the OPEN and PLAYER campaigns to good effect. Or at least I have has success at it. I am currently running a EPIC with a bit of PLAYER campaign which is out of my wheelhouse but I am doing my best. In a future video could you discuss blending theses types of campaigns and possible challenges to this. Once again thank you for all you done and are doing for our marvelous hobby.
I really appreciate your viewpoints. I feel like you're sorting a lot of things into a few different headings, which helps to clarify how I think about things - even if I honestly end up disagreeing with a lot of the conclusions you come to, if that makes sense? I have what I would call an accidental campaign (based on these categories) which has extremely heavy elements of both Epic and Player campaigns (because there is a big bad but it is influenced by characters and can be tweaked or even rewritten based on the players and PCs). So I can totally see where the elements your discuss come in, but at the same time it's not a cookie cutter. That's not a criticism though? I feel like any time I watch a video of yours I learn something - at the very least a new perspective but usually more - which can feed into my broader understanding of what kind of DM I want to be and how I want to run my campaigns. So thank you basically, is what I wanted to say. ;) Thank you and another thought-provoking, helpful video.
Thanks for this. I realized that for my current 5E campaign I combined Epic and Character-driven campaign styles. Worked so far with slow-burn weird horror and investigations interspersed with combat against minions of the eventual BBEG.
I'm definitely an Open Campaign GM. I also play with Noobs so I help them with their backgrounds to nudge them in derailing my campaign! I could never run an Epic Campaign but I can give the players epic moments, and not just epic combats. I like the idea of a PC campaign and the players do have their own goals - then there must come a Choice - Reveal a Personal Secret, Leave the Party, Stay with the Party or Give up your goals at let Fate (the dice) take control. NO - I like my OC - A Broad Goal that the PCs can move in and out of with a potential Final Show with a host of different challenges on the way, some personal side quests, different guilds to join, World & Local events, plot twists, and as entertaining as possible. Thanks for this vid, enjoyed it all.
A player campaign also requires the GM to have more restraint than most. The GM and players have to be able to sit back and watch; one of the most memorable moments for me as a player was opening up about very private details from his past with the party member he didn’t just know the least but who he was the least like. I literally had to walk away from the table to collect myself.
Awesome video. I think I'm running a game that's a mixture of the first 3 types. It's more like a living open world where players are affected by 2-3 Epic bads at the same time and can decide themselves which leads to follow. And as different hooks move them from town to town while they complete smaller side stories - they also gain information about bigger things that are happening which are mostly connected to one of the epic bads. And while dealing with one of the epic bads, other ones gain strength and I try to make sure the world is affected by it. Since I require a medium sized character backstory, then I pepper the world with family members, friends and enemies of the characters who need some help along the way. In case of smaller backstories (Not everyone likes to create one for their character), I just focus on their race and/or class and make sure they meet people who really like or hate them for it. I usually try to make it so that once they beat one of the epic bad guys, the others have affected them enough to be their next target - and then think of a new one. The Pros for this kind of games are : * I do not need much preparation to be done per session. (As I have enough of the world built and have bunch of NPC-s and encounters I can use whenever I need to spice up the session) * I can always change the narrative to move towards the type of game my players prefer. (more political? more combat? more mysteries? etc..) * Every player feels like the character they made is part of the world with all it's cons and pros. * The location of hook quests and people is not fixed and I can add them when I feel like the players could use more information or when there's not much happening. * Players use 20-30% of the session coming up with ideas and plans on how and what they should do - which gives me time to think ahead of what they might encounter. * Random generated encounters can be easily added. * When players chose to do smaller things, you can always add connections from any of the bads to any of the random little quests players are doing. * Players feel like they have the power to change the world around them. The Cons : * Players use a lot of session time to come up with plans and choose what to do next. * Players may be overwhelmed by the amount of stuff they can do and not know where to go. * Requires GM to be more adaptable, because you can NEVER predict what players do. * Brings out conflicting goals and/or morals of the player characters (This can also be a good thing - depending on the group) * You need to be able to handle a lot of information and change it on the fly to make bads seem important to players. * It never really ends... So there's no satisfying conclusion. Oh wow, it's a bit longer text than I anticipated - I'll just stop now... Sorry and thanks for reading. :/
Oooh character campaign focus is scary. I always seed and have missions and interactions merging due to character's backstory and work hard to make sure the PC feel and are part of the world in the midst of my hybrid open/epic campaign.
My campaigns usually start at the "player campaign" station but eventually ride into "Epic Campaign" station by relating everyones backstory somehow into the Epic. Best of both worlds I say, gets the players invested, cause their characters are personally involved throughout all of it.
How about a mix of open and epic? Each week is a different baddy but you leave threads which lead to a grander narrative, maybe the first bad guy they beat comes back again more powerful then ever. Maybe the players will begin to notice that there is a wider conspiracy afoot!
That’s my favorite kind. The players go from quest to adventure solving all kinds of different problems, but they eventually connect the dots and realize that behind it all is a much greater evil threatening the world.
Sounds like the majority of anime. Introduce the characters/world setting with a monster of the week. Keep that going until around 1/2 through when a new, really big bad shows up. The final act is tying all of the threads together and the final resolution.
Wow: just what I needed today. e-hug, Guy! or if you're not a hugger: e-air-kiss! Realized that I'm running an epic campaign with strong player-campaign elements, and that I am probably naturally better at the player stuff but need epic structure for meaning + sanity. When you delineated the types with their pros and their cons I realized what I'm doing in my game, what I'm wanting to build for my players, and now I have a sense of how to go about it effectively. Thanks so much.
My campaigns tend to be epic campaigns with Player driven elements. There will be an overall objective but I want to take the time to delve into the players stories and personalities and theme things around that.
I am running a "I'm a new DM and am stitching together a campaign in reaction to the crazy choices my characters have made" campaign. Our current campaign is "Ghosts of Saltmarsh flavored", with about 60% homebrew to fill in the gaps and move the PCs between modules.
i'm an open gm. I've never been very good at linking plot points together and i've never really used the player backstories except in the few systems where the backstory has a mechanical function or unless i'm trying to give that player a personal nemesis. So most of my games are episodic and sometimes use the same villains but usually is just a different threat every week.
*Thanks for watching!* Let us know what Campaign and GM you are in the comments below!
Check out FarSight Sci-Fi RPG here, definitely one to consider for your collection: lightfishgames.altervista.org/
Thanks again for the video Guy! I have a video suggestion for you: How to make things personnal for the PC? How do you evoke emotions, how do you intensify their motivation, their hate for the BBEG or the importance an adventure has to them? I want to take my epic campaign and make it also personnal for the PCs to enhance the experience, and erase that feeling of railroading. I want the epic campaign to feel as a personal tale for any PC that was played in any epic campaign. Would be even more epic in my opinion.
You say you have a great creative mind for epic campaigns, you love playing it because you're good at it. Remember, we can put the events and NPCs and everything that structures the epic campaign anywhere you like, So let the players drive the story and do the things they want to do, and revolve those epic events in a player campaign as seemingly "random events" from the players actions. so basically Epic over arching campaign (players can't know this) / Player Campaign mix! You can do it!
For a simulationist campaign, I would say bad idea on doing it as one of the base level ones like your video discusses here. I would more consider it an idea for on the list of styles in an open campaign.
Another great video! After watching videos for a year I finally ran my first campaign a couple days ago, and it was amazing! This video is great because my style differs from my husband's, but I couldn't explain how before. He's an epic storyteller with factions and intrigue, but I am more player centric. I don't feel original enough to design this epic tale, but I can hopefully do some fun monster of the month adventures with sprinklings of pc growth. I guess I want my campaign to have a strong finish character by character rather than a climactic ending. And if a BBEG emerges somewhere along the way, great!
I think I would be more interested in playing a personal player campaign, but running one (if I ever get the confidence to do so, and have the dedicated time to run one) I would go for epic campaign as I can see big cinematic story worlds in my head.
"Their entire family was murdered, which motivated them to become an orphan"
Had me in shambles
Haha yeah I had to replay it a couple times
~Dan
I was dying at that point.
Caleb Widogast would like to discuss that with you.
@@PalleRasmussen Your reply killed my whole family
@@scrotymcboogerballs6756 as long as I did not throw anyone under the bridge 😉
"My grandmother throws amazing bachelor parties" sounds like a sleeper agebt activation phrase.
Or the pass phrase to get in to a 1930s speakeasy.
I would cally campaign an "evolving campaign". It's kind of similar to an open campaign, but all the smaller story arcs connect to each other amd in the end move towards a singular conclusion and probably a singular BBEG. But neither I nor the players know the full story when it started. It just evolves over time.
"make it look like an accident" campaign
When a oneshot evolves into accidental evolves into open evolves into character campaign :D
I'm currently running a campaign like that too. Where every choice matters, as such they have defeated multiple BBEG's, killed evil gods that stood in their way. There is a world ending evil at the end of the campaign that the players are actively trying to keep sealed away. Started the campaign January of 2020, the players didn't want the campaign to end so they set up a guard over the seals and are running around trying to turn the world into a utopia. So the ball is in their court as when they want the campaign to end. Sorry for the rambling reply. ^_^
It is very possible to have a campaign that blends all.
This is how I run it, an overarching story with background details that hint towards a narrative, but the individual adventures are only loosely leading toward it until the end.
I think you missed one.
"world building campaign"
the characters explore the territory and thus the players learn about the world. after a dozen stories, the players create new characters and enter an established world. the previous characters may be npc's or even used again. each time the characters interact in the world, the world expands. it's very rewarding for all involved to see the game world grow due to the players exploring and adventuring.
yes! I'm currently working on a Ravnica project with that in mind!
Yes that's how my Eberron campaign is. Exactly. And it's not exclusive you can have a mix of the other types.
I've been thinking to use Fiasco for this - populating the game world with juicy NPC villains, ones who (the same!) players will know inside out when dealing with them later in the main campaign. Never thought to spend more than a oneshot for that.
Seems to me this would be a version of an Open campaign. If you are simply exploring then your campaign, session to session, would be very flexible and you would have a multitude of choices in where you go and what you do as a player.
@Darren - I would agree, however the process of world building involves developing the npc's, politics and antagonists to the empire(s) the characters are interacting with. this is far more indepth than simply running around and seeing what the characters can find that Interests them.
"I like big campaigns, and I cannot lie."
Thats because itty bitty campaigns get you sprung
"and you other players can't deny, when a orc walks in with an itty bitty wraith and a rondel in your face..."
Hahahahaha!
I like campaigns and i cannot like, the adventures can't deny, when the gm walks in with a decorated case and throws character sheets in your face you get SPRUNG. Cause you notice that case was stuffed, deep in the dm guide they're glaring, the other players can't stop staring OH DEE EMM I wanna roll with ya, and hear your scripture. The npcs tried to warn me but that campaign you runs got me so horny.
"My brother also likes big campaigns, and cannot tell the truth. Solve our riddle to open the door."
I kinda feel like the ideal campaign is kind of all of these, an epic over arching story set in an open sandbox that ties in the players histories. Like I am aiming for an open campaign that is character driven and includes a big bad at the end. But who that big bad is up to who the characters gravitate too.
Was about to comment this.
I find the easiest way to make a campaign like this is to give the PCs a sort of hit list of multiple BBEGs that they will need to defeat all of in order to accomplish their goal. Order doesn’t matter of course.
Exactly this. If you are not incorporating all of these things together it is going to be a bad time and players will be bored just following any single type.
Like he said epic is railroad and linear and players will want a break from this singular pursuit all about thwarting the BBEG.
Also they will be bored without any real goal to strive for in the future So having a over all story arc re appearing from time to time pointing them toward something is a must also.
And for the love of god you better include player driven and backstory throughout your entire campaign.
It doesn't have to be about them all the time because they will also get bored or feel pressured.
Also you don't have to tie everything together, that will give you a headache and possibly a heartache if it all falls apart.
Leave some unanswered questions and loose ends as you go this will allow you to tie or not tie things together.
A Okay DM follows a single campaign arc. This DM you will join because your bored and have nothing else to do.
A Good DM follows 2 of these campaign arcs This DM you would join again even if you have other things to do.
A Great DM follows all of these arcs. This is a DM you will be asking them when they will be running something again.
So, critical role
Lol
I run Character-driven epic campaigns. I take their backgrounds and develop an epic campaign that pulls in the stories they give me at creation.
I adore this approach and also favor it myself.
It's also possible to add a little bit of open campaign flavor if you have an arc where the goals can be done in different orders (kinda like most BioWare RPGs), or you can add little breather episodes here and there that may not tie directly into the either the players' arcs or the main plot of the epic campaign, but may earn them something useful to see those things through, like a powerful weapon or a base of operations.
I wish I would find a GM like that :0
I do this too. Some storylines will happen along the way, after need or development, and some will be an unrelated bad guy or monster - but the overarching arch is based on the player backgrounds or ambitions.
@@TheKansleren I try to be "a fan of my players" so I don't clown on them for crit fails. What I have been known to do recently is that sometimes a crit fail will reveal a new villain or storyline. It often happens with a psionic character that pulls unwanted attention with her telepathy.
@@storytellersteerpike4452 i cant remember who i got this from. But i have my players describe how they fail and give them inspiration when they roll a 1
I've always been fond of the X-files approach, where some adventures are one offs, but some significant number of adventures are geared toward learning of/dealing with the "big bad". This gives a certain amount of freedom to either experiment with types of adventures or to buy time when working on the details of what the "big bad" is up to next :)
I would say that I generally run epic campaigns, but I also like to dig into the player's backstories and narratives to weave them into the game as well.
I run my games similarly to games like breath of the wild or skyrim. There is an open campaign to play around in with an epic campaign in the background. The open campaign is used to strengthen the players via sidequests and arcs so that they can take on the epic campaign.
My friends have trouble doing one-shots. They turn from one-shots to adventures to campaigns, but the DM tends to link things up. They just thought we would get trough it faster. We spend the first couple of scenes just RPing between the players and slowly crawl through his amazing story.
Thx HTBAGM/Guy
My friends do the opposite... They take my plans for a campaign and they turn into a single brief adventure :(
In the intro, for a brief moment, when he said "I love campaigns and I cannot lie"... I thought he'd do a "Baby got back" parody
"Open" reminds me of the style that OxVenture uses.
definitely! It was an accidental campaign in the beginning, but it's definitely turned in "open" now.
Im trying to do an Epic campaign, but as a long time overseer of DnD at gamestores, I'm used to Open.
My style of GMing is usually a hybrid between Epic and Character campaigns, usually with an emphasis on Epic elements. My last campaign was almost a Textbook Epic campaign, and everyone (including me) loved the ending, and some players cried tears of joy at the end. It was comparable to my Magnum Opus, D&D wise.
I'd love to see a colab between Guy and Johnny Chiodini from dicebreaker! See how they differ in their methodologies and stuff.
I would love to see that too, as long as they are both up for it.
I've just started GMing! I have an epic campaign in the plot, but at session zero, learning the characters the players made, I realised I wanted to know more of their backstories and weave them into the plot.
Something you can do for this then is play it as a Player campaign for a few levels, then through those sessions note what makes the characters tick. After those first levels you can slowly work in the BBEG and transition in to an Epic campaign with Player elements. Not only can this help you players figure out their own characters, but the BBEG can be more organic and realistic in their motivations against the party. This also makes it possible for the BBEG and any associated lieutenants to have knowledge of the party and what makes them tick.
A good option is make an epic campaign, but every 3 or 4 sessions, depending on player count and other stuff, have a player orientated session. This way the characters get sessions where everyone is equally the main character, but then they also get ones where they are the side character and ones where they are the only main character. And if you can find a way to make their stories progress the whole plot that's even better. I played in one group where the GM was talking about one time a month having a bonus session with only half the players. And have them do a smaller story that affects them more specifically. It never happened because other things. Point being there are definitely good options and ways to combine the different styles.
I've been running a Player Campaign with Epic sprinkles for over 2 years now. Can confirm: tears at the game table are not uncommon.
Me and my table sometimes still get bad at our DM for killing the sorceress's cat years ago
I get you with the tears. One of our players plays a naive, big, dumb lug (with often surprising insights) but he tells these daft stories about mythical creatures that are really funny, until you read between the lines, and you realise it's about death and abuse the character lived through as a child and you just want to give the character a huge hug.
@@paulkemp8520 Woah I LOVE that!
I think TTRPGs can be very therapeutic for processing our feelings or examining how we react to the world around us, and it seems like this character is the embodiment of that philosophy.
@Luke McGovern I think it primarily depends on the group, and I'm fortunate enough to have a wonderfully tight knit group of friends as my players.
But as for what the DM can control? I would say:
- Establish a judgment free zone where players are really free to be vulnerable.
- Run a player focused campaign, as described here. My "Epic sprinkles" was when they realized that the overarching BBEG was responsible for tragedies in all their backstories. So be Epic, but make it personal.
- Encourage players to invest in your world. Let them have S/Os, get married, buy land. I'll draw art of their characters, and sometimes commission other artists to as well as a surprise!
At that point? They're in deep. Once an ethical delimma comes up, or their NPC lover drops to 0 HP in combat, you have players on the edge of tears and willing to sacrifice life and limb.
The only downside: my group of four PCs travel in a group of ELEVEN once you count the NPCs they brought along. So... I hope you have a lot of different voices prepared.
@@BigCowProductions ok, Im not sure how much it'll help, but the one I remember best came about when an NPC was telling us some gold was going missing. Muk says, "ah, sounds like a gold snaffler, nasty buisyness that", and we are like, "nah, it sounds like embezzelment, whats a gold snaffler anyway?". So Muk says "my family would work hard in the tribe all year, and would squirrell away all the gold we could in a secret place. Sometimes the gold snaffler would come and eat all out gold and kiddnap me dad. He could be missing for weeks but eventually he would come home. Strange thing is he would have new clothes, and stink of booze and perfume, strange thing that".
Sorry its the only one I remember
i only ever made player campaigns, and i really liked how you described the problems i had every single time, players swiching caracter or not coming during their caracter arc
I feel like, as the accidental campaign, many kinds evolve into eachother. I had an epic campaign planned which then turned into a player focus game as we went on and I found it was more interesting for my group when I involved their pasts.
Just learned that my campaign i am running is a mixture of the first three types in this video, the players stories are woven into the epic campaign, with the occasional stand alone adventure thrown into it - never thought about it until i saw this video - thanks! :-)
For us this campaign format works best, one year in it, maybe another to go.
I love campaigns and I cannot lie.
You other DM's can't deny.
When there's a tear in your eye,
remembering all who died,
and the epic ballads the late bard has sung
This channel is so good that I take notes while watching
I ran a few adventures with my friends using The Strange, where every adventure is a different mission given by their boss (they work for an organization called The Estate). Each mission is disconnected from the others but some NPCs can reappear from time to time. I feel that this is the best way to run this RPG system and I've been having a blast so far. The fact that every adventure can take place in a different world definitely helps in making each of them feel more unique. I don't know if it fits the mold for Open Campaign or Accidental Campaign though, I have a hard time distinguishing the two.
As a new DM your words are supportive, inspiring, and oh so timely!!
The last three minutes of this video was worth the price of admission. This is why you are a top-tier professional in field.
I did hit that like button. You earned it again, Guy. Thank you for helping me to better understand my own habits and why my games all run like one shots. I wasn't aware there were so many accidental GMs either until I saw that poll you posted.
One weakness when it comes to the Player campaign, the GM needs to have good character players.
Absolutely the epic. I love tying everything together and plotting behind the curtain what the adversaries will do in response to the player's actions.
Simulationist campaign works very well for one particular scenario - 1. You have a group of players who are experienced in and thoroughly invested in your world (either because you've run a consistent world for a really long time or you're running a widely known world with few changes from established canon) 2. You've demonstrated a rigid adherence to the mechanics of your given game system so that the players can be confident that if they perform X action, Y result will occur. When this occurs, you get a group of players who act in the best interest of their characters working within a framed system to create some pretty amazing stories. If I'm being honest, it's my preferred playstyle, but It is EXTREMELY difficult. As a GM, you need to have so thoroughly developed the world that the players interact with that it is capable of reacting organically to both what the players do and what they don't do, often with little warning as to what that might be because they aren't following your plan. Nice players will give you some advance warning as to what their plan is. As players, you need to know the ins and outs of the system almost as well as the GM does, because the GM in this style will not hold your hand as you push against his NPCs. If your technical improv isn't up to snuff, it'll snatch immersion away almost instantly.
I love it, it's absolutely incredible when it works, but it's hard to pull off and easy to screw up.
Thank you for all of your great videos! I've been watching you since 2016 and you're just amazing, keep doing what you're doing!
The current campaign I'm running (currently level 3, almost 4) is an open campaign that I plan to have slowly build up to being an epic campaign. So during the lower levels they are exploring the world like a sandbox learning more and more about the setting until the big bad becomes the main focus of the campaign (plan on having that occur around level 7-9). I set up 4 different secondary big bads for them to discover and deal with in the meantime. Surprisingly they already dealt with one without even realizing it. They are current searching for the one they already killed and I can't wait to tell them that they killed him a dozen sessions ago lol
I've been running an accidental simulated open-epic-player campaign for years now.
Over the years they built their own guild, defeated a god, and traveled through time while playing as the bad guys.
Each new playgroup added to the story, some joining the guild, some going on their own way, but all painting the blank canvas I gave them.
They created a masterpiece.
that´s the same style I want to make. In my group we have two DMs for two campaigns (we both are new and so we can help each other and have breaks to plan ahead. I my Campaign will start I think Mai or June. at first the will the experience the emergency of all the Beastfolk-races (pretty much all Races which are part animal z.B Tabaxi, Lizardfolk.... except Dragonborn they have their own story) and after that I will see how they formed the world.
@@asrenshadowmoon9241 Good luck with it.
I hope your players also paint a masterpiece.
My husband is running a solo game for me, and it's been so much fun! Definitely a character game. We've had in depth talks about her back story. ❤️
Enjoyable and informative. I tend to run a hybrid of sorts. My campaigns start as open until my players reach a certain level and then I begin introducing the BIG BAD and move into an epic campaign. It did take practice to figure out the balance and knowing when the players are ready to move on. Just like different DMs there are different players and play styles. Great content.
Just what I needed right now. I was in a bad spot tryibg to combine every type into my current one. Great bideo.
Thanks for the video. It helped understand Dming certain Campaigns a little bit more ! 👍
This video gave me a great insight into how all of my friends and I have played roleplaying games over the years. I can see both sides and I realize a lot about how I really appreciate certain types of campaigns and I can definitely pick out the types my friends like as well.
Great video!
I find myself currently running a campaign that is along the lines of Open but has an overarching Epic story tied into each/most of the adventures they are doing. The players are playing adventurers apart of this agency that contracts out adventurers to do jobs and the players pick what contracts they want to take so it feels like it is very open and they get to choose their own path etc. BUT they are uncovering a greater plot at hand with each contract that they take so it is leading to a greater story and greater antagonist.
Im doing this because I'm at college rn amd people come and go for the semester or summer or whatever and it is easy to say that they are off taking other contracts so they can come back at the same level as everyone else and hop back in when they come back. Been working so far!
I enjoyed the video a lot, thanks!
I'm currently running a "simulation" campaign where the party owns a company set to colonize a "new world". Session one began with them setting sail, and we've had seven sessions so far filled with ocean exploration. I ran this by creating an over-arching world, kind of like how you described making an epic campaign, but instead of one BBEG, there are numerous factions with their own motivations. Then I let the players have at it!
Something that's really helped is to create "epic" style villains for each faction (a leader and their captains for example).
The party finally landed last session, and I'm planning on running the mainland more or less as a hex crawl (6 miles per hex). I've created encounter tables for each of the faction territories to make them feel unique, and seeded each hex with at least one hook (a cave, ruins, etc.).
This video although consisting of stuff I thought I already knew actually gave me a revelation as to why I didn't enjoy the session I played in earlier this week. Thanks.
One of my longer campaigns, about 4 years, mostly every two weeks to monthly, started out intending an epic campaign but evolved into more of a mix of character driven & open because my big bad was ill conceived and remote and they revelled in picaresque adventures that were their own ideas. Sometimes adventures came out of their plans, sometimes I started an idea and ran with it. Lots of memorable stuff, but eventually died to group composition losses as people moved, broke up, etc.
This was interesting. I actually typically run hybrids of these various campaigns and have run into just the various strengths and weaknesses Guy describes:
My first campaign (in my modern, post Eighties/Nineties gaming career, which kicked off in 2016) was a Starfinder campaign. It was initially *disguised* as an open campaign and the first few adventures seemed episodic, but I had elicited detailed backstories from all my players and within the structure of the *epic* campaign that I had actually planned, we had *player-focused* adventures in which everyone got a shot at the spotlight. Once we reached a conclusion to my originally-planned epic arc, it then became an *accidental campaign* b/c we wound up deciding to play up to level 20 (fortunately, I had seeded a backup BBEG for just this eventuality in the earlier adventures).
That campaign never felt too railroad-y b/c there was enough "play," enough give-and-take in the narrative and enough episodic interludes, to ensure that they got to do other stuff than just battle the BBEG. We did have players decide to switch characters, but it never felt like that derailed anything b/c player-focused adventure was only part of the general menu and no *one* character was ever such a focus that their loss could derail the whole campaign. It was built to feel at points like "open" adventure but never so open that our sense of purpose fell out, and their "open" adventures inhabited enough of a structure that they could see and feel the impact they were making on the world from one arc to the next. And the epic arcs delivered b/c they had enough breaks from the bigger arc that returning to it always felt fresh and urgent.
Not all of these things paid off equally, and it was different for different players. Some players really were there for the player-focused arcs and appreciated the epic inasmuch as it touched on that arc, but occasionally found the epic-ness to become a grind. Some players were really *not at all* there for the player-focused stuff but just wanted to be part of an epic narrative, and no-sold attempts to involve them in their own adventures. Some players tried their best to sell the player-focused stuff but it made them anxious, and they were really more at home in any of the other modes. Some of them were just happy to Do Cool Shit no matter what the adventure mode was. On average, I think it worked out.
I'm trying on a similar balance of elements in my follow-up campaign, but it has a much more specific "epic" rebels-taking-down-a-tyranny arc (and also a simultaneously scarier and more nebulous "there's-also-this-weird-alien-threat" arc akin to the White Walkers in Game of Thrones or, more accurately, the Consult in the Prince of Nothing and Thousandfold Thought books by R. Scott Bakker). The balance of elements still seems to be working okay and I have a better sense of who is into what (and some of the players have grown in confidence and are trying new things, which is always fun). I'm only struggling with one player/character, whose arc revolves entirely around Revenge for His Hometown Overrun By the Tyranny that the shape of party choices in the larger arc has kind of neglected. That's a concern, and there is definitely going to be no "accidental" element this time around -- we'll be lucky to get through all the story road we need to traverse in 20 levels -- but otherwise balancing a few campaign types against each other in a larger framework is still working for me.
I would argue that this parallels the way stories in television have evolved. A lot of them mix epic narratives, short-arc and episodic storytelling, "open" narratives and character-driven stories in just this way. That's actually where the idea came from for me. Be interesting to hear Guy's perspective on that.
I did find this video "vaguely stimulating." Thanks for asking. ; )
I definitely fall into the Epic camp ... with the palette-cleansing side trip every so often.
Very good overview.
I'm currently running a player campaign. One of the bigger difficulties is connecting character goals into something all players will be interested in. So I tend to connect the dots and always ask the players for their long and short term goals. If we're working on a long-term goal of one of the characters, I always try to make sure to give attention to short-term plans of others, so that no one loses interest. I have absolutely awesome players who give me great opportunities to connect their backstories. Example? We need to find an npc from character A backstory. To do that, we visit character B home island since the head of the state there is from the same guild as character A. And then in turns out that character C has relatives there. On the way there we meet long lost father of character D. When I plan the campaign I feel more like solving a puzzle than doing something from scratch, since my awesome players always give me some source material in form of their backstories. And if a player decides to switch characters, I have a guarantee that they will still be interested in finishing the current quest, because all of the stories are connected in one way or another.
Your channel has been invaluable as hell for my adventures and learning how to GM, hopefully i can consider myself a great gm but i found that your paradigms were good structures but didn't fit exactly in a way that i was comfortable in epic campaigns. I found myself as modifying your principles that I naturally am a player focused gm (and i'm blessed with a static group that loves those types of adventures)
Going to add this link to my upcoming video on "How to prep for a campaign :)" Really insightful!
Thank you Guy. This was exceptionally helpful for me to think about how I run, when my campaigns succeed and when they peter out, why they do so. I would note you didn't give a DM style for 'accidental' campaign, which I would consider a GM who relies heavily on extemporaneous talents and reacts to the others at table.
Regarding simulationist play, your channel is and always has been about narrative play wherein the players (via the PC personas) descriptively solve situations and (at least theoretically) the clatter of dice could never be heard. Simulationist play focuses on how the players use the rules-defined abilities of the PCs to outwit the rules-defined abilities of the NPCs with a fortune mechanic to mix things up. To compare the two is to carefully judge between a penguin and a giraffe.
Thanks again and I look forward to more great content.
My current gm is pretty great at making an epic campaign feel like a player campaign. He sprinkles in quests for our characters stories to progress all the while giving us a fantastic bbg at the same time
An eye opener! Now I know I am a Player Campaign GM, with just a tinge of both Epic and Open.
Thanks Guy!
Up until recently, my campaigns were almost all Accidental (I was a very reluctant GM who only did it if no one else was willing). Wasn't until recently that I started doing an Open one with hints of Player, and it's been interesting. A LOT more work, but it's been rewarding so far.
The best campaigns I've been part of have been some combination of "player" and either "epic" or "open". We can weave in player stories along the way, or even as part of the central story in most campaigns.
It’s great to be so conscious of things. I realized I almost always do open campaigns, even though I always wanted to tell epic campaigns. Of course, Cthulhu one shots are natural exceptions. Thank you, this has been missing so far!
That moment when every time he describes a type of campaign you go "oh so I think I'm DM'ing that kind? No wait, maybe that one?!"
My current campaign is a hybrid of the first three. Player focuses that bleed into an epic storyline and an open adventure that allows them to build thier personality and defines the setting that lets them understand the world and the epic setting.
I love running the transitional mixer campaign: a blend of all four. An open campaign that has an epic campaign that gradually unfolds as a slow burn sub-plot before exploding into a final arc. The campaign itself is largely structured around the individual stakes and goals of the players with their personal arcs being resolved along the way. After the final arc resolves the campaign continues on as a free-form sandbox where the players get to traverse the planes and explore the endless horizon. We've managed to run several games like this and have even had games that ran for years on this structure. It's really good for long-form games but involves a lot of cooperation between all people involved. Lone wolves don't do too well in these sort of games.
As far as playing (which I never will ever again) all four are really fun. I've had amazing experiences will all four of these types of campaigns. You break down the pros and cons of all four styles really well here! This was very useful in giving me some more perspective on how I might want to focus and structure my games in the future.
I definitely run Epic campaigns with Player elements to it. One of my favorite things during a campaign is to subtly place hooks in to a character without them realizing I have done so, then setting the hook suddenly with a couple well placed descriptions. I get a variety of reactions ranging from wide eyes and mouth covering to a player actually realizing the significance of what I am saying and blurting out, “Oh, shit. No. Nope”, to the occasional tear.
Thank you Guy. Every video is better and better.
as someone who tends to make a mix of epic and player campaigns, can attest to the weaknesses. I had one that had a huuuge overarching story that needed all of the PC's to work and then one of them left for good and the game died two sessions in. _Two._ The one campaing I'm running right now is an open one, simply because I don't have a big bad in mind yet. Sure I have the PC's personal boogeymen up my sleeve and ideas for personal adventures, but no end goal.
My favorite type of campaign is a combination of thr first three. Think of it like Buffy the Vampire Slayer or any of those types of shows. Some episodes are "lore" episodes and progress the plot, but a good portion of them are just "monster of the week" episodes and some of the episodes explore the main characters more. You can do similar things in a campaign where some adventures are just random adventures the party is going on for rewards or other reasons, some adventures end up forwarding the plot, and sometimes the pcs have to face a rival from their backstory. Sometimes these adventures appear to be one kind of adventure, but are revealed to be another kind by the end. Doing a campaign like this is a lot of work bc it requires you to be at least decent at being all the types of gm, but it covers most of the weaknesses of the individual styles
One challenge I've found, having been running an "open" episodic campaign lately, is that there are minimal excuses available to reuse ideas/enemies. When I'm feeling creatively energetic it's great, because I get to do wild new stuff every episode, but when I don't have as much time or energy, it can be a little difficult.
You have like, the ultimate dm voice--literally you just sound like what I expect a dm should sound like? It's both hilarious and very pleasant
On the simulationist thing, if you have the players for that you'll know. The moment you mention the difference in tax codes from location to location, or why the war has ravaged the economy and not bolstered it. You'll confirm this when they start working out how to abuse this by buying armor in one town for dirt cheap then upping the price as they get near the warzones or places which have crippled logistics chains.
I have a close friend like this and I'm that guy as well... our other DM who does Epic campaigns narrows his eyes at us in ways we can feel when we start swindling NPCs.
This is quite interesting!
Using the D&D 5e rule set, I am currently world building for an epic campaign that I will be adding elements of the player campaign type to hide the fact that it is an epic campaign.
In a doctor who rpg setting, I have started planning an epic campaign and disguising it as an open campaign. I’m excited to see how quickly the players piece together the clues.
I am currently planning a large scale campaign that would mostly align with your "open" style, but also will include elements of "epic" and "player". My approach is to plan out the world and lots of plot hooks and give the players a lot of agency in choosing what to do and how to do it, shaping what will become the story. It will be made with the party in mind, so there will be lots of points made to involve character backstories, promote growth, test flaws and let them shine.
Thank you for this. I have watched you for a while and I keep failing at getting an epic game going and I felt like a failure. Apparently I'm an open GM and I can get behind that.
I love all the videos. I take notes always and meditate on the ideas! From this particular video, I believe that all campaigns are not waterproof, so you can mix and match the benefits with the weaknesses of two or more types. Do you like to run a epic campaign? alright, do some open-world quest in the middle, so it doesn't get too rail-roady. Or mix some of this middle cornerstones with some considerable advance in a PC backstory, so it is also character driven. So on and so forth
My campaign has evolved since it began last year.
It started as an accidental campaign meant to be a one-shot. We grew attached to the characters and settings and decided to continue in this world.
I wanted to build on one character's backstory, so that features significantly, but it also evolved from my original villain towards an epic campaign.
I also threw in some random ideas for adventures that I had that only retrospectively tied in with the main story.
Sometimes even one of the other players is DMing another story set in the same world and everything is allowed in terms of plot direction.
So there you go, an accidental player-focused open epic campaign 😁
There is another, probably a meta style for this video, which is a mix of the first three which is more of a balance of them. Think of the Babylon 5 TV series though the 1990s as an example. There was an epic story line with episodic plot lines to the season midterm of 5 or so episodes along with those that are resolved in the same episode as resolved. The three types of plots are wound together through the series along with character growth focusing on the various characters where a plot line would be focused for a particular character. It is my job as a DM to weave these while giving a spot light to a character story plot line, keep them also moving along the main line goal as well. This allows the plays not to be bored on a single plot line while giving a different player there time in the sun. Yes, this took a bit more work, but gave a mix up to the players along with some unexpected twists.
Man this is EXTREMELY helpful! Thank you!!!
Reposted always ready for one of your videos 🙏🏽
I tend to run epic campaigns, but I mix in the player campaign aspect of it by focusing on PC's goals and endeavors throughout the epic campaign. Everyone gets their time in the spotlight!
I like the DS9 model in the background.
I’m at the beginning stages of my epic campaign. I do like to do a lot of character stuff so I’m taking care to weave their backstories into the larger narratives as much as possible.
My DMing style of campaign is like a Frankenstein version of all four of those. I start the campaign with a big bad in mind, but rarely plan out passed the next few adventures in how the party gets there. This lets us go on crazy side-quests that bloom out of nowhere and try accomplishing some of the characters personal goals along the way.
Nice thoughts! I think there's another dimension relevant to this matching between the GM's and campaign's types: how much the GM can commit to a campaign. As you said in the begginning, life sometimes get in the way and we may abandon that awesome story the group had been building.
I've been favoring open campaings recently for this reason. We can enjoy great adventures in short spans and the GM can and should throw their best ideas ASAP while there's a low cost of abandoning the story after any one of those adventures. Also, if you eventually find yourself running a long term game you can always find a way to tie everything up and give it a nice conclusion: if you ran a series of loosely related adventures, you can conclude the story as an epic campaign but if you linked the adventures through PC's story developments, you can conclude it as a player campaign.
I was actively learning using your channel as my guide from the very beginning, so I have weaved my natural tendency to do player-focused campaigns with epic ones.
It's all about linking it all together. Inclusion of characters and their personal stakes had increased their buy in.
As for simulation, I'm not a person for numbers, however I am a programmer, so I believe that simulation can create a great story, given the right configuration. Dwarf Fortress had created histories using procedural generation. So I believe that an epic campaign can be ran inside a simulation-style campaign. It's less likely to personally weave into each PCs back story, it might not challenge PCs character flaws, but it can be truly epic, considering that anything can happen. Easy ways to beat the boss using his vulnerability, difficult enemies in a starting location, and many more things that players will be making stories of
I'm an Epic/Player GM. My campaign itself is an Epic, but I weave player backstories into the campaign itself and into arcs within the overarching campaign to give each player the focus for 3-8 sessions. My players love it and so do I. It's a TON of work to pull it all together, but it's an absolute blast when it all comes to fruition with each arc. Lots of dopamine hits lol.
Yes when my entire family was murdered, I was VERY much motivated to become an orphan.
Very interesting take, I kinda wanna try an open campaign style now, as we have a group that is very social and quickly rolls over into humor and chit chat. I think that style might be well suited for that?
Until I watched this video, I didn't realise I was running an Open Campaign. Thank you!
What about "Living World" Campaigns? A Series of mini campaigns (3-4 sessions) or a handful of one shots that develop the common world that your players play in. Each story takes place in a different part of the world, where the players help sculpt its history, customs, and legends. This is where the Setting is the star of the story.
It began with an accidental campaign then i discovered this channel and I made it into an epic campaign :)
I think I'm between Epic and Players type... Thank you for this video, always great !
Accidental campaign here that evolved into an open/episodic campaign. It was meant to be a oneshot with monstrous races as the PCs where i sometimes could run missions for them if our main campaign had a slow month...this has now become a full blown campaign closing in on 3 years and is the one campaign we have that is going strong and close to finishing with an end in sight.
Due to the accidental nature the PCs didnt really get fleshed out backstories or gotten them weaved into the adventure so we put a lot of energy into the connections they build here and now instead.
This was weird, everything here made sense but I was sort of unaware these themes existed despite clearly falling within the lines as I played. This will go a great way to bettering my games!
Thank you for doing such a great job of crystalizing and clarifying the different types campaigns. You're a real gem...Pardon the pun. I myself typically blend the OPEN and PLAYER campaigns to good effect. Or at least I have has success at it. I am currently running a EPIC with a bit of PLAYER campaign which is out of my wheelhouse but I am doing my best. In a future video could you discuss blending theses types of campaigns and possible challenges to this. Once again thank you for all you done and are doing for our marvelous hobby.
I really appreciate your viewpoints. I feel like you're sorting a lot of things into a few different headings, which helps to clarify how I think about things - even if I honestly end up disagreeing with a lot of the conclusions you come to, if that makes sense?
I have what I would call an accidental campaign (based on these categories) which has extremely heavy elements of both Epic and Player campaigns (because there is a big bad but it is influenced by characters and can be tweaked or even rewritten based on the players and PCs). So I can totally see where the elements your discuss come in, but at the same time it's not a cookie cutter.
That's not a criticism though? I feel like any time I watch a video of yours I learn something - at the very least a new perspective but usually more - which can feed into my broader understanding of what kind of DM I want to be and how I want to run my campaigns.
So thank you basically, is what I wanted to say. ;) Thank you and another thought-provoking, helpful video.
Thanks for this. I realized that for my current 5E campaign I combined Epic and Character-driven campaign styles. Worked so far with slow-burn weird horror and investigations interspersed with combat against minions of the eventual BBEG.
I'm definitely an Open Campaign GM. I also play with Noobs so I help them with their backgrounds to nudge them in derailing my campaign! I could never run an Epic Campaign but I can give the players epic moments, and not just epic combats. I like the idea of a PC campaign and the players do have their own goals - then there must come a Choice - Reveal a Personal Secret, Leave the Party, Stay with the Party or Give up your goals at let Fate (the dice) take control. NO - I like my OC - A Broad Goal that the PCs can move in and out of with a potential Final Show with a host of different challenges on the way, some personal side quests, different guilds to join, World & Local events, plot twists, and as entertaining as possible. Thanks for this vid, enjoyed it all.
A player campaign also requires the GM to have more restraint than most. The GM and players have to be able to sit back and watch; one of the most memorable moments for me as a player was opening up about very private details from his past with the party member he didn’t just know the least but who he was the least like. I literally had to walk away from the table to collect myself.
Awesome video.
I think I'm running a game that's a mixture of the first 3 types.
It's more like a living open world where players are affected by 2-3 Epic bads at the same time and can decide themselves which leads to follow. And as different hooks move them from town to town while they complete smaller side stories - they also gain information about bigger things that are happening which are mostly connected to one of the epic bads.
And while dealing with one of the epic bads, other ones gain strength and I try to make sure the world is affected by it.
Since I require a medium sized character backstory, then I pepper the world with family members, friends and enemies of the characters who need some help along the way. In case of smaller backstories (Not everyone likes to create one for their character), I just focus on their race and/or class and make sure they meet people who really like or hate them for it.
I usually try to make it so that once they beat one of the epic bad guys, the others have affected them enough to be their next target - and then think of a new one.
The Pros for this kind of games are :
* I do not need much preparation to be done per session. (As I have enough of the world built and have bunch of NPC-s and encounters I can use whenever I need to spice up the session)
* I can always change the narrative to move towards the type of game my players prefer. (more political? more combat? more mysteries? etc..)
* Every player feels like the character they made is part of the world with all it's cons and pros.
* The location of hook quests and people is not fixed and I can add them when I feel like the players could use more information or when there's not much happening.
* Players use 20-30% of the session coming up with ideas and plans on how and what they should do - which gives me time to think ahead of what they might encounter.
* Random generated encounters can be easily added.
* When players chose to do smaller things, you can always add connections from any of the bads to any of the random little quests players are doing.
* Players feel like they have the power to change the world around them.
The Cons :
* Players use a lot of session time to come up with plans and choose what to do next.
* Players may be overwhelmed by the amount of stuff they can do and not know where to go.
* Requires GM to be more adaptable, because you can NEVER predict what players do.
* Brings out conflicting goals and/or morals of the player characters (This can also be a good thing - depending on the group)
* You need to be able to handle a lot of information and change it on the fly to make bads seem important to players.
* It never really ends... So there's no satisfying conclusion.
Oh wow, it's a bit longer text than I anticipated - I'll just stop now...
Sorry and thanks for reading. :/
Oooh character campaign focus is scary. I always seed and have missions and interactions merging due to character's backstory and work hard to make sure the PC feel and are part of the world in the midst of my hybrid open/epic campaign.
My campaigns usually start at the "player campaign" station but eventually ride into "Epic Campaign" station by relating everyones backstory somehow into the Epic. Best of both worlds I say, gets the players invested, cause their characters are personally involved throughout all of it.
How about a mix of open and epic? Each week is a different baddy but you leave threads which lead to a grander narrative, maybe the first bad guy they beat comes back again more powerful then ever. Maybe the players will begin to notice that there is a wider conspiracy afoot!
That’s my favorite kind. The players go from quest to adventure solving all kinds of different problems, but they eventually connect the dots and realize that behind it all is a much greater evil threatening the world.
That describes tv better than his example
Sounds like the majority of anime. Introduce the characters/world setting with a monster of the week. Keep that going until around 1/2 through when a new, really big bad shows up. The final act is tying all of the threads together and the final resolution.
Wow: just what I needed today. e-hug, Guy! or if you're not a hugger: e-air-kiss! Realized that I'm running an epic campaign with strong player-campaign elements, and that I am probably naturally better at the player stuff but need epic structure for meaning + sanity. When you delineated the types with their pros and their cons I realized what I'm doing in my game, what I'm wanting to build for my players, and now I have a sense of how to go about it effectively. Thanks so much.
My campaigns tend to be epic campaigns with Player driven elements. There will be an overall objective but I want to take the time to delve into the players stories and personalities and theme things around that.
I am running a "I'm a new DM and am stitching together a campaign in reaction to the crazy choices my characters have made" campaign. Our current campaign is "Ghosts of Saltmarsh flavored", with about 60% homebrew to fill in the gaps and move the PCs between modules.
i'm an open gm. I've never been very good at linking plot points together and i've never really used the player backstories except in the few systems where the backstory has a mechanical function or unless i'm trying to give that player a personal nemesis. So most of my games are episodic and sometimes use the same villains but usually is just a different threat every week.