I'd love to see a trophy truck as an invitational entry in the Dakar, and a T1+ in Baja. Would be cool to watch, even if they aren't exactly comparable
@@RCmaniac667 put a bigger one? Let them refuel after the special? I don’t care, the car doesn’t need to be classified. Do it like Garage 56 at Le Mans, it’d be interesting enough to see the pace of it
Wow! You analyzed an older trophy truck. One from 3-5 years ago. The new elite tier of trucks are the mason motorsports trucks 1100hp mid engine awd trucks with portal front hubs.
@HannyDart if you want to see light trucks the 6100 class is spec trophy truck they go to great lengths to keep them lighter like 4500lbs because of the limited hp sealed spec motors. the way a heavy truck ends up working is basically a problem of scale. Big tires are heavy, and we need a reasonable ratio of sprung to unsprung mass, and enough strength to hold it together... Class 10 buggys are all around 2000lbs because they are limited to like 2L ish (depending on air or water cooled and single or two seat) and run smaller diameter lighter tires.... because of the limited hp. You can look at it like a matter of scale to the larger vehicle with the larger wheels, more weight and hp every bump and hole is smaller... you can watch the class 10 vs class 1 unlimited or trophy trucks. And as a side note. Sometimes, on smoother tighter courses, there will be class 10, up in with the class 1, and even class 10 and 1 up with the slower trophy trucks.
If you took the time to watch actual Baja videos you'd see that the terrain is so much more diverse than is being led on, and in my opinion much more diverse than Dakar in Saudi.
Very very interesting. I don't follow racing much at all. Closest I've ever been to any race car was in a small (3 car?) Japanese museum which had a Dakar car straight from the race, hadn't even washed it, and I still remember three things painted on the door: name, national flag, and blood type. Priorities! Really learned a lot too.
Very nice comparison! Would also be interesting how a Dakar Car would perform in Baja or the other way around, if they could harmonize the rulebooks (like Garage 56 Nascar). I was surprised that you are that deep into Dakar and Rally Raid and I like those insights and your explanations very much! Anything like this regarding WRC and their constant changes in the rulebooks (e.g. removing the hybrid unit in 2025 while ceeping the hybrid-adapted body and frame the same)?
Superb analysis as usual! I wonder if Loeb would have driven a Trophy Truck - would he just "fly" over that ditch and hadn't even noticed anything. Of course, with such weight and fuel consumption he would have stopped somewhere on the 1 stage though.
Yep, a trophy truck would have flew over it. Loeb, wouldn't need a trophy truck though, a Class 1 buggy would be enough since it can do the Baja 1000 without refueling and is lighter than even T1+ cars.
@@PseudoNo i mean they got the T1 buggies for that. Some buggies even won Dakar events multiple times before like the Mini for example. Since the T1+ class is formed, teams using T1 buggies do decrease since T1+ allows the same sized tyres as the buggies on top of having 4WD which are really beneficial around sand dunes.
Still, suspension in Baja is outrageous. With those absorber speeds. I wonder if T1 had "faster" shocks would it be as great as TT but with less weight.
Personally, I find the T1+ Car's from Dakar better. Because they need road approval, in addition to the FIA Rules. The Minimum weight is cool and interesting.
@@TruckerOsirisHow about a Class 1 buggy? It's lighter than both T1+ cars and trophy trucks. Although they haven't won the Baja 1000 overall since 1993. Funnily enough, the year they stopped winning is the year trophy trucks were born.
Man i love both types of racing the Dakar T1 is great in a more subtle realistic way. The Trophy Truck is just insane and watching one go by is like seeing a 90s F1 car in person, you just know you are looking at a mechanical monster.
I love both. They are for different uses of course. But trophy trucks are the sickest vehicles ever. Their capabilities are more shocking than an F1 car imo. Just incredible engineering.
Thought that to about trophy trucks. Then i learned about Ultra4 and King of the Hammers, nearly as capable in the desert and then they hit the rocks. Climbing and crawling boulders as big as your standard hatchback. The abuse those machines endure is from another planet.
back in the early 2000s vw brought 2 touaregs to race baja and they did well! couldn’t keep with the trophy trucks but they finished and were competitive against some of the other classes. then vw went ahead and built a full size trophy truck using a disel engine similar to the one audi used in lemans but they had a lot of technical issues at their first race then the recession of 2008 came and they had to stop the baja program.
The difference in the following 2 rules, basically determine the main difference in design: Refuel distance and the max speed. The winner between these two designs will be determined by the terrain. Short and windy vs long and straight. The Dakar cars are more sophisticated, which I find interesting.
A class 1 buggy would be more suited to Dakar than a trophy truck since they don't need to refuel for the entire Baja 1000. They're lighter than both trophy trucks and T1+ cars. They have less power and suspension travel than trophy trucks but more than Dakar.
Check the technical sophistication of a mason motorsports awd trophy truck. There's a video where the guys who built the latest winning group of trucks show some things about it.
In Oct 2006 I went down Baja on a street bike (Ducati Multistrada, yeah, I know). On my way back north I dropped into a long straight that stretched many miles. I saw lights way out there, I thought a semi or something. The lights got close much too fast. In the maybe 20 seconds before crossing I became aware something really usual was coming at me. It was a trophy truck going flat out. I was going about 85 mph, we crossed on that narrow two lane at almost 250mph. For a split second my insides shook. I've been a fan ever since. Later I almost got clobbered by some idiot on a dirtbike crossing the highway. Turns out I was there during the start of the 1000 pre-running.
Thank you, excellent report. Although the TTs are quite different to the Dakar cars, they all look the same … spaceframe, flimsy bodywork, huge wheels and long susp travel and the only way to tell the difference between models is the car company logo painted on the grille. I’d still rather see the Dakar cars use at least the body-shell of production models.
It may be not as interesting, but I'd like to see how the trucks of rally raid racing have progressed through, from the early days of the Mercedes trucks to the purpose built Ivecos of the present day.
It's an embarassement to see truck racing in Dakar 2023, 2024 and 2025. Battle for the second place. Because the real leader is not allowed to compete. KAMAZ!
The bikes are allowed refueling, right? Is that only on liasons or during the special? They all seem to have around 32L tanks, and with the specials being 500km, that definitely seems like a stretch
Dont forget that T1+ cars have air intake restrictors and are limited in many key components . If you made them “unlimited” like the trophy trucks, the t1+ cars would probably leave the trucks in the dust, except on baja whoops probably.
Very interesting comparison! Now I'm wondering two things: 1. How do the bikes in Dakar get such a long range with no space for a much larger fuel tank? 2: How do Dakar full size trucks compare to BAJA trucks in terms of weight, power, fuel consumption?
Diesel Dakar T1+ cars were my favorite. Those did cover the 800km stage on 325L diesel, not 540L like the current petrol DakarT1 cars. It's a shame the FIA penalized diesels with ballast. Comparing the diesels to american cars, they have 4 times the range using the same amount of fuel.
the safety concerns about the radiators and fuel cells on the Baja trucks are not so concerning when you consider the immense strength of the roll cage construction. the bodywork is there to simply maintain the appearance of a truck, they do not aid in protection very much. the radiator placement allows only the coolest, cleanest air to reach it, and is in the strongest part of the chassis: the center. it does not get hit anywhere near as much by rocks, debris, or other competitors, as it would be if it were up front. the fuel cell is in a more exposed position, but the immensely strong rear axle and spare tires surrounding it shield it from most impacts and wrecks that are seen in Baja. would love to see each truck do an exhibition run in each other's race series! would be very easy to register a T1+ for Baja, probably not so much for the Baja truck to have a go at Dakar, considering the strict rule sets.
@@markmall7142 350 hp (limited) T1 vs around 1100 hp (unlimited) TT. The TT does weigh more but with that much power it just isn't even a contest. Only place a TT doesn't do great is technical trails/rock crawling. That's when you go with a KOH 4400 Ultra4 car - the swiss army knife of off road racing. Does everything.
Afaik, all competitive open class TT have a mid engine layout today. Rear wheel T1+ Dakar buggies are allowed to have more suspension travel and have some other goodies compared to the awd cars. It is a pity that they are not competitiv under the current Dakar reglement. A very good animation how a TT is built up mechanically: ruclips.net/video/_nR1-J676ao/видео.htmlsi=gBiiQH1I5ToOwTo_
RUclips zoo road a Dakar car would be doing 5mph here A 1100hp awd trophy truck is well over 6000lbs and it needs to be to hold up to the conditions. A g out in a dakar car at 130mph would fold the chassis and kill the driver. Also fyi the baja 1000 covers some very mountainous terrain, there is very little flat ground running. Also fuel cells are 300-500litres usually stops are a top up incase there are issues. Trophy trucks cost $100k to rent for one race before damages and half the field are likely in rented trucks
Personally i prefer the Dakar Cars more just because i can still see the resemblance to its road counterpart more than a TT. Plus the mindset of "You're on your own" while being in the middle of the Desert trying to find your way through across hundreds upon hundreds of kilometers is just awesome. You got problems in the middle of the stage? Tough luck. You better try to fix it yourself or wait until the support car come around. It's probably one of the reasons i also love Endurance races like WEC/IMSA more than something like F1. It's the human & machine perseverance through long distances.
@dilligaf2818 They may both be off-road racer but the discipline itself is quite different. It's just a different kind of race with one is kind of a sprint while the other leans more on the endurance. Speaking of sounds, personally having multiple different types of engines producing different kind of sounds is also awesome. Again much like prototype endurance cars, having variety is the charm. If i wanted to have some true sprint rallying on multiple different surfaces then i got WRC for that.
Id go with a Baja truck, you can always run with less power if you want. Im pretty sure the teams running in the sand wish they had more power to keep them ontop. With that said id drive anything if the start was in Paris and the finish was in Dakar.
a use awd trophy truck is not less than $700,000 dollars a new awd trophy truck is $1000,000.00+ dollars. most awd trophy truck have a mid engine and is a paddle shifter transmission not sequential.
Dakar vehicles would not do well in Baja. Trophy trucks would not do so well in Dakar. Baja is extremely diverse, much more so than Dakar in Saudi. Watch some actual Baja 1000 recap videos and you will see the pebbles on the beach, to the pine trees in the mountains, to the deserts of San Felipe. Diversity is the Baja 1000
@@Drift_Potato402 Both types of vehicles are absolutelly optimized for their environment and their restrictions. Built by smartest people in the business. But on emotional side I like Dakar T1+ cars more :)
If weight is a concern, a class 1 buggy would be good for you. They can do the Baja 1000 without refueling. They are lighter than both T1+ cars and trophy trucks.
Class 1 buggies have independent rear suspension. In fact most categories in the Baja 1000 have independent rear suspension. Only trophy trucks have live rear axles.
Yeah that's just not how it works. Trophy trucks are unlimited, and would be allowed to race with independent rear suspension. Infact in the early 90s Ivan Stewart and Toyota did just that, and did well... but bigger more powerful live axle truckw took over. Now.... the lower classes the fastest of which is called class 1, must use independent suspension and a transaxle, (a buggy with a solid axle is called a truggy and one dominated so hard that it was banned from the buggy class) now running a buck, an independent car with a truck body is perfectly legal and not a threat. The solid axle has more travel and the driveline can handle 1100+hp. The 50,000$ transaxles struggle to survive with anything over 750hp. Also with so much travel you'll see independent cars body rolled in corners while going left like this from the rear / - - / wheels chambered the wrong way... impossible to put enough camber gain into them to counteract body roll. While solid axle l - - I at least the tires stay perpendicular to the ground. Anyhow cheers.
@@EnglertRacing96 Exactly. IFS/IRS is great on the road, but the tougher the conditions the more the solid axles come into their own. Dakar is amazing for so many reasons but they don't run super technical terrain. For that matter Baja doesn't either. You would move into KOH stuff to get into rocks where you'll find solid axles are still popular although IFS and even IRS are becoming more common as the courses spend more time going fast in the 'easy' desert vs going slow in the rocks. At the extreme you would look at comp crawlers where they ONLY run solid axles because articulation is king and speed is all but irrelevant. If somebody needs a more down to earth example, there's a reason the Wrangler still runs solid axles. It's the last man standing and remains the undisputed leader in production off-roaders when it comes to hard core trails.
It's for weight distribution, B Sport explained it in the video. Putting the fuel tank in the middle was done before and is not as effective when gliding over whoops at high speed.
@@johncarl5505 I heard, doesn't mean it's the best or safe. It is truly moroning decision considering they bump the back of someone they need to overtake. The whole thing is really... not very professionally designed.
@ I'm sure M-Sport, Prodrive & co are looking at this. If there is a market, they'll go. US vehicle engineering is not very sophisticated, no wonder that even NASCAR is a Dallara!
I'd love to see a trophy truck as an invitational entry in the Dakar, and a T1+ in Baja. Would be cool to watch, even if they aren't exactly comparable
And what a missed opportunity from Saber to including the Trophy Truck as the DLC for the Dakar Desert Rally
Robby Gordon drove his Hummer H3 Trophy Truck in the Dakar for many years
What to do with a limited fuel tank?
@@RCmaniac667 put a bigger one? Let them refuel after the special? I don’t care, the car doesn’t need to be classified. Do it like Garage 56 at Le Mans, it’d be interesting enough to see the pace of it
Trophy trucks were once part of it but rules changed for some reason
I didn't know the differences between the cars and competitions were so big.
Great video and explanation.
i love the versitility of dakar. i grew up waiting for the start of the new year simply because its dakar time.
Wow!
You analyzed an older trophy truck.
One from 3-5 years ago.
The new elite tier of trucks are the mason motorsports trucks 1100hp mid engine awd trucks with portal front hubs.
did they get lighter or heavier? or are they also around the 3 tones?
@HannyDart still right around 6000lbs, they added a front diff, axles, and geared portal hubs, and saved weight elsewhere
@ interesting. I wonder if they tested heavier/lighter setups, too
I wonder where the limit of overall size is; maybe bigger trucks are even better?
@HannyDart if you want to see light trucks the 6100 class is spec trophy truck they go to great lengths to keep them lighter like 4500lbs because of the limited hp sealed spec motors. the way a heavy truck ends up working is basically a problem of scale. Big tires are heavy, and we need a reasonable ratio of sprung to unsprung mass, and enough strength to hold it together...
Class 10 buggys are all around 2000lbs because they are limited to like 2L ish (depending on air or water cooled and single or two seat) and run smaller diameter lighter tires.... because of the limited hp. You can look at it like a matter of scale to the larger vehicle with the larger wheels, more weight and hp every bump and hole is smaller... you can watch the class 10 vs class 1 unlimited or trophy trucks.
And as a side note.
Sometimes, on smoother tighter courses, there will be class 10, up in with the class 1, and even class 10 and 1 up with the slower trophy trucks.
Also the Trophy Trucks are mid engine not front engine as shown.
i like the unlimited approach of the baja trucks more, because they can use the full amount of tech and knowledge they have to tackle their terrain
yeah, only one type of terrain, and with regular refuelling and tyre changes :)
@@YurNikolaevthey said exactly that. On that one terrain, those trucks are kings.
If you took the time to watch actual Baja videos you'd see that the terrain is so much more diverse than is being led on, and in my opinion much more diverse than Dakar in Saudi.
@@EthanHagle Thanks, I will. I have very little knowledge about Baja races, will definitely watch some of it now.
Had the same question when following Dakar days ago. Thanks for the video!
Very nice comparison! Thanks for great content again! 🙏🏁
My pleasure!
Very very interesting. I don't follow racing much at all. Closest I've ever been to any race car was in a small (3 car?) Japanese museum which had a Dakar car straight from the race, hadn't even washed it, and I still remember three things painted on the door: name, national flag, and blood type. Priorities!
Really learned a lot too.
Very nice comparison! Would also be interesting how a Dakar Car would perform in Baja or the other way around, if they could harmonize the rulebooks (like Garage 56 Nascar).
I was surprised that you are that deep into Dakar and Rally Raid and I like those insights and your explanations very much! Anything like this regarding WRC and their constant changes in the rulebooks (e.g. removing the hybrid unit in 2025 while ceeping the hybrid-adapted body and frame the same)?
Some Dakar cars did the Baja
Thank you very much for your detailed analysis. Exactly what I wanted.
Glad it was helpful!
Superb analysis as usual! I wonder if Loeb would have driven a Trophy Truck - would he just "fly" over that ditch and hadn't even noticed anything. Of course, with such weight and fuel consumption he would have stopped somewhere on the 1 stage though.
Yep, a trophy truck would have flew over it. Loeb, wouldn't need a trophy truck though, a Class 1 buggy would be enough since it can do the Baja 1000 without refueling and is lighter than even T1+ cars.
Ok so now we need an episode on Class 1 buggies vs the T1 classes😅@@johncarl5505
@@PseudoNo i mean they got the T1 buggies for that. Some buggies even won Dakar events multiple times before like the Mini for example.
Since the T1+ class is formed, teams using T1 buggies do decrease since T1+ allows the same sized tyres as the buggies on top of having 4WD which are really beneficial around sand dunes.
isn't it a spec lighter class in Baja?
Trophy trucks have more variety, I think.
@@johncarl5505
Still, suspension in Baja is outrageous. With those absorber speeds. I wonder if T1 had "faster" shocks would it be as great as TT but with less weight.
Personally, I find the T1+ Car's from Dakar better. Because they need road approval, in addition to the FIA Rules.
The Minimum weight is cool and interesting.
@@TruckerOsirisHow about a Class 1 buggy? It's lighter than both T1+ cars and trophy trucks. Although they haven't won the Baja 1000 overall since 1993. Funnily enough, the year they stopped winning is the year trophy trucks were born.
@@johncarl5505 Why they stopped winning?
@@RCmaniac667Not enough suspension travel.
@johncarl5505 most class 1 weigh more than you think.
Take a look at a video called mason awd trophy truck....
Man i love both types of racing the Dakar T1 is great in a more subtle realistic way.
The Trophy Truck is just insane and watching one go by is like seeing a 90s F1 car in person, you just know you are looking at a mechanical monster.
It's basically the off-road equivalent of an F1 & Hypercar/GTP.
One is optimized for speed, the other is for endurance & reliability.
@@AbrahamArthemiusactually a great comparison I feel ashamed for not thinking of earlier.
I love both. They are for different uses of course. But trophy trucks are the sickest vehicles ever. Their capabilities are more shocking than an F1 car imo. Just incredible engineering.
Thought that to about trophy trucks. Then i learned about Ultra4 and King of the Hammers, nearly as capable in the desert and then they hit the rocks. Climbing and crawling boulders as big as your standard hatchback. The abuse those machines endure is from another planet.
@@TheFreeFreddyyou make a good point there. I forget about them unfortunately because they are newer. But they are totally wild too.
Very interesting comparison, thanks!
man I gotta go with the trophy truck
back in the early 2000s vw brought 2 touaregs to race baja and they did well! couldn’t keep with the trophy trucks but they finished and were competitive against some
of the other classes. then vw went ahead and built a full size trophy truck using a disel engine similar to the one audi used in lemans but they had a lot of technical issues at their first race then the recession of 2008 came and they had to stop the baja program.
Please also do a detail vedio on ssv and challenger category in dakar and trucks also.
I was going to ask for same.
I second the request for SSV and Challenger.
The difference in the following 2 rules, basically determine the main difference in design: Refuel distance and the max speed. The winner between these two designs will be determined by the terrain. Short and windy vs long and straight. The Dakar cars are more sophisticated, which I find interesting.
A class 1 buggy would be more suited to Dakar than a trophy truck since they don't need to refuel for the entire Baja 1000. They're lighter than both trophy trucks and T1+ cars. They have less power and suspension travel than trophy trucks but more than Dakar.
Trophy trucks are more raw in their design, but I prefer the technical sophistication of T1+ vehicles.
Check the technical sophistication of a mason motorsports awd trophy truck. There's a video where the guys who built the latest winning group of trucks show some things about it.
In Oct 2006 I went down Baja on a street bike (Ducati Multistrada, yeah, I know). On my way back north I dropped into a long straight that stretched many miles. I saw lights way out there, I thought a semi or something. The lights got close much too fast. In the maybe 20 seconds before crossing I became aware something really usual was coming at me. It was a trophy truck going flat out. I was going about 85 mph, we crossed on that narrow two lane at almost 250mph. For a split second my insides shook. I've been a fan ever since.
Later I almost got clobbered by some idiot on a dirtbike crossing the highway. Turns out I was there during the start of the 1000 pre-running.
Thank you, excellent report.
Although the TTs are quite different to the Dakar cars, they all look the same … spaceframe, flimsy bodywork, huge wheels and long susp travel and the only way to tell the difference between models is the car company logo painted on the grille.
I’d still rather see the Dakar cars use at least the body-shell of production models.
It's convergence evolution. Everyone will turn to the most effective design.
It may be not as interesting, but I'd like to see how the trucks of rally raid racing have progressed through, from the early days of the Mercedes trucks to the purpose built Ivecos of the present day.
It's an embarassement to see truck racing in Dakar 2023, 2024 and 2025. Battle for the second place. Because the real leader is not allowed to compete. KAMAZ!
@YurNikolaev I'd like to see them compete too, but the problem is they're Russian, and we all know why they're not allowed to compete right now...
The bikes are allowed refueling, right? Is that only on liasons or during the special? They all seem to have around 32L tanks, and with the specials being 500km, that definitely seems like a stretch
I'd love to see both classes pitted against each other. Maybe for the Desafío Ruta 40?
It would be nice to see an adaptes trophy truck at dakar
Basically, TT gonna leave T1+ in the dust, but they not gonna lasts the entire Dakar stage.
If you detuned the engine to use less fuel it could make a whole stage and still leave the t1 in the dust.
Dont forget that T1+ cars have air intake restrictors and are limited in many key components . If you made them “unlimited” like the trophy trucks, the t1+ cars would probably leave the trucks in the dust, except on baja whoops probably.
@@Lineriderzero if they were unlimited then they'd probably look a lot like the trophy trucks but with MUCH larger fuel tanks.
I would like to see a race between Baja and Dakar spec
Very interesting comparison! Now I'm wondering two things: 1. How do the bikes in Dakar get such a long range with no space for a much larger fuel tank? 2: How do Dakar full size trucks compare to BAJA trucks in terms of weight, power, fuel consumption?
The bikes refuel more frequently
Dakar bikes usually have around 40L of fuel across three in-built tanks.
----
He already showed the comparisons in the video
Rally raid motorcycles have 3 tanks
Diesel Dakar T1+ cars were my favorite. Those did cover the 800km stage on 325L diesel, not 540L like the current petrol DakarT1 cars. It's a shame the FIA penalized diesels with ballast. Comparing the diesels to american cars, they have 4 times the range using the same amount of fuel.
Had Seth Quintero ever participated in the Baja 1000?
Trophy Trucks are just badass.
the safety concerns about the radiators and fuel cells on the Baja trucks are not so concerning when you consider the immense strength of the roll cage construction. the bodywork is there to simply maintain the appearance of a truck, they do not aid in protection very much.
the radiator placement allows only the coolest, cleanest air to reach it, and is in the strongest part of the chassis: the center. it does not get hit anywhere near as much by rocks, debris, or other competitors, as it would be if it were up front.
the fuel cell is in a more exposed position, but the immensely strong rear axle and spare tires surrounding it shield it from most impacts and wrecks that are seen in Baja.
would love to see each truck do an exhibition run in each other's race series! would be very easy to register a T1+ for Baja, probably not so much for the Baja truck to have a go at Dakar, considering the strict rule sets.
Trophy would leave the T1 in the dust across any terrain, and i can't ignore that. It gets my vote
He did say its alot heavier so maybe not that much faster.
@@markmall7142a trophy truck will straight up do 240kmh.....
@@markmall7142 350 hp (limited) T1 vs around 1100 hp (unlimited) TT. The TT does weigh more but with that much power it just isn't even a contest. Only place a TT doesn't do great is technical trails/rock crawling. That's when you go with a KOH 4400 Ultra4 car - the swiss army knife of off road racing. Does everything.
Unlimited T1+ cars would be incredible. Take the air restrictor/suspension travel limit and speed limit away. And see what happens
Dakar cars are supposed to be road legal as well right?
Cheers 👍💪✌
Afaik, all competitive open class TT have a mid engine layout today. Rear wheel T1+ Dakar buggies are allowed to have more suspension travel and have some other goodies compared to the awd cars. It is a pity that they are not competitiv under the current Dakar reglement.
A very good animation how a TT is built up mechanically: ruclips.net/video/_nR1-J676ao/видео.htmlsi=gBiiQH1I5ToOwTo_
RUclips zoo road a Dakar car would be doing 5mph here
A 1100hp awd trophy truck is well over 6000lbs and it needs to be to hold up to the conditions. A g out in a dakar car at 130mph would fold the chassis and kill the driver.
Also fyi the baja 1000 covers some very mountainous terrain, there is very little flat ground running.
Also fuel cells are 300-500litres usually stops are a top up incase there are issues.
Trophy trucks cost $100k to rent for one race before damages and half the field are likely in rented trucks
Personally i prefer the Dakar Cars more just because i can still see the resemblance to its road counterpart more than a TT.
Plus the mindset of "You're on your own" while being in the middle of the Desert trying to find your way through across hundreds upon hundreds of kilometers is just awesome. You got problems in the middle of the stage? Tough luck. You better try to fix it yourself or wait until the support car come around.
It's probably one of the reasons i also love Endurance races like WEC/IMSA more than something like F1.
It's the human & machine perseverance through long distances.
give me Trophy Truck any day such better racing...they sound awesome
@dilligaf2818 They may both be off-road racer but the discipline itself is quite different. It's just a different kind of race with one is kind of a sprint while the other leans more on the endurance.
Speaking of sounds, personally having multiple different types of engines producing different kind of sounds is also awesome. Again much like prototype endurance cars, having variety is the charm.
If i wanted to have some true sprint rallying on multiple different surfaces then i got WRC for that.
@@AbrahamArthemiusthe baja 1k is over double the length of the longest dakar stages in one go
Id go with a Baja truck, you can always run with less power if you want. Im pretty sure the teams running in the sand wish they had more power to keep them ontop.
With that said id drive anything if the start was in Paris and the finish was in Dakar.
Imagine seeing a Baja truck at Dakar like a Garage-56
Imagine seeing a Dakar big truck at Baja! DAF, Kamaz, etc
a use awd trophy truck is not less than $700,000 dollars a new awd trophy truck is $1000,000.00+ dollars. most awd trophy truck have a mid engine and is a paddle shifter transmission not sequential.
Trophy trucks will outperform T1+ cars.
F1 vs Indy all over again
F1 has very strict regulations while Indy is a spec series. Dakar has more open regulations than F1, while the Baja 1000 has almost no regulations.
lemme get tht trophy truck i wanna go thru the whoops like james stewart
Dakar vehicles would not do well in Baja. Trophy trucks would not do so well in Dakar.
Baja is extremely diverse, much more so than Dakar in Saudi. Watch some actual Baja 1000 recap videos and you will see the pebbles on the beach, to the pine trees in the mountains, to the deserts of San Felipe. Diversity is the Baja 1000
I'm convinced a Trophy Truck would annihilate all the competition Dakar Rally has to offer.
until it runs out of fuel in the beginning of the stage :)
Its like comparing a unlimited class truck to a heavily restricted vehicle...
Oh wait!
@@Drift_Potato402 Both types of vehicles are absolutelly optimized for their environment and their restrictions. Built by smartest people in the business. But on emotional side I like Dakar T1+ cars more :)
So I guess the main question is, if you wanted to go off road racing, would you race Dakar or would you race da motorcycle? 🤭
ruclips.net/video/zg2jWFk1iDA/видео.htmlsi=LPNjLGPql67zjHc8
225kph pass (140mph)
So Baja Trophy Trucks are Sprinters and Dakar T1's are Marathon Runners. Got it.
Baja is more powerful but it's negated by its weight. Dunno, probably i will pick Dakar if environment is alright for it
If weight is a concern, a class 1 buggy would be good for you. They can do the Baja 1000 without refueling. They are lighter than both T1+ cars and trophy trucks.
The trophy truck is better than the t1 in every way imaginable
Dakar every time
Only americans drive cars with live rear axles.
The rest of the developed world moved on decades ago, with performance cars.
Still, it's more durable when compared to independent suspensions. Also, better load capacity.
Class 1 buggies have independent rear suspension. In fact most categories in the Baja 1000 have independent rear suspension. Only trophy trucks have live rear axles.
@mahiru20ten indeed. Perfect for a horse and cart.....and for an American racing car 🤣
No wonder americans are so rubbish at F1 !!!
Yeah that's just not how it works. Trophy trucks are unlimited, and would be allowed to race with independent rear suspension. Infact in the early 90s Ivan Stewart and Toyota did just that, and did well... but bigger more powerful live axle truckw took over. Now.... the lower classes the fastest of which is called class 1, must use independent suspension and a transaxle, (a buggy with a solid axle is called a truggy and one dominated so hard that it was banned from the buggy class) now running a buck, an independent car with a truck body is perfectly legal and not a threat. The solid axle has more travel and the driveline can handle 1100+hp. The 50,000$ transaxles struggle to survive with anything over 750hp.
Also with so much travel you'll see independent cars body rolled in corners while going left like this from the rear / - - / wheels chambered the wrong way... impossible to put enough camber gain into them to counteract body roll. While solid axle l - - I at least the tires stay perpendicular to the ground.
Anyhow cheers.
@@EnglertRacing96 Exactly. IFS/IRS is great on the road, but the tougher the conditions the more the solid axles come into their own. Dakar is amazing for so many reasons but they don't run super technical terrain. For that matter Baja doesn't either. You would move into KOH stuff to get into rocks where you'll find solid axles are still popular although IFS and even IRS are becoming more common as the courses spend more time going fast in the 'easy' desert vs going slow in the rocks. At the extreme you would look at comp crawlers where they ONLY run solid axles because articulation is king and speed is all but irrelevant. If somebody needs a more down to earth example, there's a reason the Wrangler still runs solid axles. It's the last man standing and remains the undisputed leader in production off-roaders when it comes to hard core trails.
Putting the fuel cell at the back? Trophy Trucks are not very sophisticated, more like brutes.
It's for weight distribution, B Sport explained it in the video. Putting the fuel tank in the middle was done before and is not as effective when gliding over whoops at high speed.
@@johncarl5505 I heard, doesn't mean it's the best or safe. It is truly moroning decision considering they bump the back of someone they need to overtake. The whole thing is really... not very professionally designed.
@@dafnik8925It's protected by a tube frame rear bumper, kevlar panels and tires. No one has ever died from a trophy truck fuel tank.
@@dafnik8925 Sounds like you should try designing one then.... good luck!
@ I'm sure M-Sport, Prodrive & co are looking at this. If there is a market, they'll go. US vehicle engineering is not very sophisticated, no wonder that even NASCAR is a Dallara!
ruclips.net/video/0xO-oeQNAVg/видео.htmlsi=MXMaM_vni5RUTQAj
B SPORT YOU ARE HACKED !!!
ruclips.net/video/3VNEhgojNKU/видео.htmlsi=zlWHVx8wPQL_qHQ4
Current state of the art tt all the top guys run