Very well said and demonstrated. I too have seen too many coaches teach this the wrong way with way too much tension. It should be very loose and dopey feeling. N tension in the neck. Tension in the neck means tension on the cords and that's counter to what the liprolls are designed for. Nicely done.
My controversial answer to this would be a) if a singing teacher requires you to learn this before anything else I am not convinced they are a very good teacher, and b) if they cannot teach you how to do it, they are not a very good teacher. It is NOT an important exercise for learning to sing. I posted the video purely to teach people how NOT to do it, since so many people insist on learning to lip trills (which I think is largely not only a waste of time, but often counter-productive.)
Cool :D Is there any way to flex your voice dramatically to make it sound like the opposite gender, or even a little girl? -3- I've been trying to find a way to do that, but I don't even know if it's possible o.O
Greatness is in the eyes, ears, and mind of the listener. Our views are shaped by our personal biography and cultural experience. 'Great vocalism' is judged relative to the genre of the vocalist.
Unless muscles in throat and neck are locked down, all singers have a slight pitch variation on held notes - this is called vibrato. The cords lengthen and shorten a tiny amount around the note, creating a wave effect that we hear as a 'warm pulsing'. If the vibrato is too wide, we call it 'flap', and if it is too rapid, it sounds like a bleat. Good vibrato occurs automatically from good vocal technique -no shortcuts! 'Constructed' vibrato is used by some pop/jazz singers ending long notes.
I really just wanted to say thank you for your detailed and pedagogic videos. I have rarely sung at all in the last ten years and I recently joined a choir. My singing voice obviously isn't quite what it used to be. Lip roll is one of the warm ups we have, and has been more of an obstacle for me than help. I could barely get a vibration going even for a second and then the air in my lungs emptied up in no time. This video made a clear uplift at once! I'll keep practice relaxing my face!
This is Wonderful and 180% TRUE ;) Best video on this subject! Not just a gripped voice but you can think you are loose and free and doing a bubble kind of sound while, in fact, you are compressing the muscles around the vocal cords and larynx!! More videos Please please...;)
@androcci - Not sure I understand your question. The cords lengthen and thin as you rise in pitch, and thin especially when the cricoid tilts for the higher notes. You will know if the cords thin, because you will go higher. If the voice quality stays reasonably consistent between lower and higher ranges, then tilt has happened, and the cords have thinned. If you hear falsetto, the tilt has not happened - instead, just a part of the length of the cords is vibrating.
Thank you so much for being honest about how you feel about lip rolls! I just can't do them no matter how much I work on it(not without great effort and doing them 'wrong', like you showed). Will stop stressing about it now and just practice other things that are more helpful!
The lip roll helps with practising consistent and sufficient breath flow, as well as relaxed facial and jaw muscles. The tongue roll becomes useful as we go higher - most people start gripping the lips and jaw, but changing to the tongue roll helps keep the freedom in the mouth parts. A gripped and rapid lip roll on high notes may be impressive, but it's bad for the voice.
Thank you for this video Sir! Many people thought lip rolls are a bunch of marketing baloney when in reality they have been taught wrongly how to do it all their lives. When done right, it is one of the best vocal exercises ever because not only it helps connect your registers, but it also takes a TON of tension from your vocal folds prior to preparing you for heavy duty singing!
@valarangel 1. Loose lips will give a strong vibration there. Because of the strong lip vibration, and the closed lips, you won't FEEL much resonance, even when the vocal cords are also vibrating. But the vocal cord vibration will be happening, and your mouth cavity will be resonating. 2. Maintain constant air flow and pressure always. If the abdominals are being used, and the diaphtragm properly braced, you do not need to think about 'speed' of air flow at all.
Thanks. Lip rolls seem to be a favourite of teachers, especially on the web. It's frustrating that so few people understand how to do these things properly. You can have a little bit of knowledge, without proper anatomical information, and do more harm than good.
Not sure what you're describing. The cheeks should be loose, not artificially raised. To release the top lip more, you can gently press thumbs upwards in the 'hole' under the cheekbones, on the rizorius. Tightening facial muscles is counter-productive.
I'm loving your videos. Thank you for making and sharing them. Would you consider doing another about how to encourage the emergence of natural vibrato?
excellent video Alexander. I've never been a huge fan of the lip roll exercise as it does tend to produce a 'pressed' onset. very we'll explained and demonstrated. bravo!
I'm not a fan of the lip roll either. It is not very significant in the larger picture of developing good vocal technique, or even in warm ups. But since so many teachers recommend it, and teach a lip roll method that is BAD for the voice, I felt compelled to create a video that, I hope, clears away the misinformation.
For singing, air comes out of the nose ONLY when doing nasal consonants (M, N, NG). At other times, the soft palate should rise and shut off the air passage from the mouth up into the nose, so no air should be coming out of the nose at all. I wonder if you are trying to push air out for the lip roll using cheek muscles, rather than the breathing process described in my other videos?
As you go higher, the lip roll becomes counter-productive. On high pitches, to make the lips vibrate, we have to grip them more, and tighten the jaw, which the lip roll on lower notes is supposed to train us out of! The tongue roll can take over for the higher notes, which usefully trains us to release tongue tension as we go higher. Tongue rolls generally help us release tongue tension.
Thank you very much for posting this video. I have had singing private lessons, but my teacher never explained this basic exercise with such detail. I hope I'll be in Oxford some time and be a pupil of yours at least for a lesson. Subscribed to your channel. Have a nice day.
Yes, I release a little air first, to prove that the lips do not need to be pressed / sealed before they start vibrating. There is no 'onset' of a P, B or T. It is purely airflow and the gentle approximating of the lips that sets them vibrating. If you look on the Oxford Singing Lessons website, there are two articles there on warmups. A warmup video would be too long. I hope to include it in the eventual DVD.
This is Wonderful and 180% TRUE ;) Best video on this subject! Not just a gripped voice but you can think you are loose and free and doing a bubble kind of sound while, in fact, you are compressing the muscles around the vocal cords and larynx!!
Yes, I know his performances from RUclips. The carrying power of his singing comes from the microphone and amplification equipment. The sound that he makes comes from forcing the vocal folds together, and big constriction in his mouth cavity to enhance just the high harmonics, and filter out the lower ones.
@1nspirator - I agree. The principle being taught in this video is how to launch and sustain the lip roll without lip, tongue, jaw or neck tension. By establishing freedom in lower and middle range of the voice first, the muscles are trained to be better prepared for the higher ranges. Manuel Garcia, the great singing teacher of the 19th century, advised people not to practise their top 5 notes - the secret lies in perfecting the middle range first.
I can't quite picture what you describe. However, the method I suggest keeps the lips and facial muscles very loose, so 'pushing' the cheeks in any direction doesn't sound right ....
@vrensink Thanks for feedback! 1) Some ideas in previous answer below - tuck thumbs under cheekbones 2) Do gentle rotating massage on the side of face on the masseter (biting muscle). 3) Ensure lower jaw (mandible) is not pushed down or forward, but hanging free/loose, slipping slightly 'back' - you get the effect if you begin to curl your bottom lip over your bottom teeth. 4) Pull neck up at the back - relaxes mandible and therefore the lips a little. PS get choir members to subscribe here! :)
This is very good news! So many vocal problems can be resolved with proper re-education of how to use the muscles efficiently. If you ever went to an ENT specialist, you must insist that you show them how you normally sing (they rarely ask this, but should!). That way they can see what muscular patterns you use that may be creating your problems.
Excellent. I have yet to find a singing teacher or choir leader who can give a sound reason for doing lip rolls. Of the many people who recommend them hardly anyone understands the true technical reasons why they might be useful, or the technical reasons why the way most people do lip rolls is actually vocally damaging.
Thanks. I am currently working on a DVD project which is a much more detailed and structured sequence of videos on singing technique. I may talk about vibrato in that. Do you have a question about natural vibrato?
WHEN WE USE OUR FINGERS ON THE CHEEKS TO DO LIP ROLLS WHAT SHOULD THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE LIPS AND THE FINGERS BE? AND PLZ TELL ME ABOUT THE EXACT TONGUE POSITION DURING LIP ROLLS
@valarangel I wouldn't think of 'positioning' the tongue at all, but more about letting the back and base of it relax. It will then find a position for itself that will keep if from interfering with the resonating space.
Hi Mr Massey. Well firstly, i have to say i am not very good at this exercise because i have tried many times but still unable to do the thrill correctly. Secondly, just to share with you, I come from a choir (Singapore) and i think my conductor has a point, that lip thrills help us with air control and also tests how relaxed our face is when we sing.
While it is good to be able to do this exercise, it is not vital. If you start to get anxious about it, just let it go. It's not important. It's better to focus on the whole body sensory experience of breath management, and feeling loose in the throat and tongue.
When you are doing the free lip roll it sounds as if you're letting a little air go through at the onset, almostt like an "h" sound. Are you adding a slight soft onset before the lip roll? Also, do you think that you could maybe add a vocal warmup video? I find your videos very helpful sense I am doing my own practicing over the summer until I go back to class in the fall. :)
I would like to ask that, could you suggest a University where singer students can learn this kind of deep approach to singing technique. I'm studying singing at a hungarian university, but I miss so much this kind of teaching, nobody teaches here, how to use your body, and how the voice works. Thank you for your answear.
Although you may strain to produce the high note, that does not mean that straining is the only possible method. Straining means you are compensating for inefficient technique.
I can't seem to lip roll past the first few notes. I just seem to loose vibration on the lips.What am I doing wrong? I find it easier if i do the rolling R's with my tongue.
@Jacc0s Many singers, especially when using a mic, produce high notes thru tightening neck, tongue & jaw. The thin sound doesn't sound too thin because the sound equipment makes it sound much fuller and stronger than it really is - singing like this is never free or easy. Lip rolls work as far as the middle upper range - then you need to use tongue rolls instead (same principles of looseness.) High notes need very advanced freedom in neck, tongue, jaw & facial muscles, and superb low breathing.
hello sir. I have two question regarding liprolls, please. First: where should the resonance be felt? Inside one's mouth or mainly in the lips? or even head or nose? (i feel slight vocal fry in my lips before liprolls) Second: Should we aim to slow the flow of air? I mean, keep a constant flow but a slow one? Thank you in Advance.
I would need to see the student to be clear exactly what the impediment was. However, I do not believe that lip rolls are that important in vocal training. The real reason I created a video about them was because so many people demonstrate them in ways that would create greater tension and problems in the vocal instrument. What are you trying to teach with the roll - appropriate breath management, gentle vocal onset, loose facial muscles? All these can be taught in other ways.
@speedylife12 You are probably tightening your jaw or lips. Press your thumbs into the side of your face, just in the cheekbones to stop the muscles gripping the top lip, and see if that helps.
This is the wrong question. You should never 'need to strain'. If you are, you have a problem with one or more of these: 1) aligning neck, 2) breath management, 3) tension in tongue, jaw or neck, 4) resonance balancing inside the the mouth and vocal tract generally. Tighter lips create more problems. You could try tongue rolls on higher notes.
so how do I use the lip rolls to extend my range and reach the higher notes without strain? because i have been doing the lip rolls for about a week now, and i am not seeing much improvement. i mean there are a few times when i reach my highest (which is probably E above middle C, sometimes F, and between G and A above middle C is my break) note. i have heard that it takes a while for your muscles to get used to the exercise, so my question is how long? :) thanks !
Start by NOT singing or vocalising. Just do the breathing exercises without vocal sound, to develop a strong sensory awareness and memory of what the abdominals, ribs and back should feel like. This gives you a reference point for how things should feel in your body when you re-introduce making vocal sound.
My question is really just about how to get vibrato going consistently; right now mine is patchy and unreliable. From viewing other videos I suspect that many well-trained/skilled singers have probably long since forgotten what it's like NOT to have free vibrato so can't fully identify with beginners, but suggest methods anyway. None of their techniques work for me. A fair case is made that it should emerge naturally with training/freeing of the voice. Or can you proffer a shortcut?! :)
@valarangel I forgot. should the tongue be curved upwards in the shape of an arch while lip-rolling? so that the uvula doesn't touch the tongue itself ?
@Jacc0s Got a bad cold at the moment, and then lots of students to see to make up for the break in my schedule because of the throat infection. So hope to make more videos late Dec, early Jan.
Yes. Until people have learned good coordination, they tend to press the folds together and force air through a tight aperture. This restricts range, and over time, can produce contact ulcers or nodules. Upper notes should be approached only as we develop highly refined skills in our middle range.
Extending range is not achieved through lip rolls. It is a result of coordinating MANY muscle groups, including releasing neck, tongue, jaw, understanding 'standing waves' and formants, superb breath control and alignment. It takes months to years to develop perfect coordination for singing extreme ranges well. If you are concerned after only one week, then you need to re-think the timescale you expect to see results. 6-8 months (assuming excellent teaching) is a more realistic expectation.
Question for you - I have a student with a speech impediment and I can not get her to leave her lips together to "bubble" her lips. I've tried having her do the motion in water and she can do it there but not outside water - with or without sound. Do you have any suggestions?
@StardustPegasis95 Microscopic puff of air before lip vibration. Thumb pressure on muscle underneath cheekbone will train release of top lip to vibrate more freely. Back of jaw must be free, dropped slightly back (back of jaw is open, even when lips are together). Breath from diaphragm work is NOT DEEP ENOUGH. Ribs must be wide, shoulders low. Engage abdominals by pressing lower back against wall (knees slightly bent). Neck improves by holding book against wall behind head at same time.
how long does it take to be able to do lip rolls 2 octaves higher than your natural range? because i am still in my natural range, and whenever i hear other people do this exercise, they always seem to go higher and higher without effort. someone , please answer,, i would really appreciate it.
@4urentertainment2010 A breathing video is high on my list of priorities, so I hope to do one soon. In the meantime, a few quick tips: 1) Breathe strongly down a straw - you'll feel muscles in your abdomen and even pelvis supporting the breath. 2) Bend your knees and see if your exhalation is stronger. 3) Rotate or rock your pelvis to deepen the abdominal muscle support. 4) Put a foot at hip height on a wall and sing - see if your breath and sound gets stronger from the abdominal work.
Hi, thanks for the detailed video! I hope to put it to good use but I can't seem to even be able to do lip rolls, any tips that can help me be able to do them?
I think mechanism and benefit behind lip trill excercise are much deeper than how you describe and explain it. One part that I agree only is that lip trill should not be performed under strained conditions. Only small fraction of voice teachers know how to correctly perform lip trils.
+Jackey Eom A lip trill done done as described on this video would indicate a) free and relaxed lips and facial muscles, b) a free jaw, c) and well managed breath flow. So, if you were trying to learn/teach these things, a lip trill could be useful. In addition, a lip trill is a 'semi-occluded exercise'. In other words, the mouth is half-closed, and the lips slightly inihibit the escape of air and the sound wave from the mouth. This increases the back pressure - the pressure that bears down on the vocal folds from above (supra-glottic pressure); this, in turn, can make phonation (the vibration of the folds so as to make sound) occur with less exertion, and minimises the possbility of pressed phonation (where the closed quotient of the vibratory cycle is far greater than the open quotient). So, the longer explanation is that lip trills can be useful for singing training. But, as Jackey Eom on says, "only a small fraction of voice teachers know how to correctly perform lip trills" and, I suspect, even a smaller fraction know what the pedagogical usefulness might be .... which is why, on RUclips, where so much bad teaching goes on, and so many learners trust the wrong people, I tend to advise people to leave the lip trill well alone. Unless taught properly, for the right student at the right time in their development, I think lip trilling (done the wrong way) can do more harm than good.
Pushing on the skin of your cheeks is inefficient. The top lip needs to be released for vibration by pressing on the rizorius muscle. To do this, drop your jaw loosely open; point your thumbs upwards, palms facing away from you; towards the front of the face, tuck thumbs vertically up underneath the cheekbones; keep thumbs there and do the lip roll, which should now be easier (with enough breath flow). If you accidentally 'grip' your lips, you'll feel your thumbs getting pushed out.
@egarrulo Talking to singing teachers, I have discovered that many do not know the detail. I think it is good for a student to ask teachers detailed questions to find out EXACTLY what the anatomy should be doing, and why, both for physical health and efficiency, and in terms of what sound should be produced as a result. Many teachers cannot answer such questions unfortunately.
thanks for the feedback. one more question if you don't mind. Is it true that when doing lip rolls, trying to do notes that you are not yet ready for i.e. the higher ones can diminish your range?
Hii alexander.. thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with every1. I have this one big problem you know when i sing really high my voice sounds very squeezed , struggled kinda nasal quality to it which i dont like at all ..... but i am able to sing that high but i wanna get rid of all tht...could you pls answer...please sir
You need to do all the usual checks. Are you aligning well in your spine - no head forwards or chin up? Is your jaw free (and not too wide), are the tongue muscles underneath free? Above all, are you managing air flow with open ribs (ie diaphragm braced downwards), with abdominal muscles engaged? Unsuccessful high notes come from faulty technique in middle notes. No way round it, you need a decent teacher watching and listening.
Yes. Experiment to feel and hear the difference. I would not smile too much in a lip roll. You are likely to tighten your muscles behind and underneath the jaw, leading to too much pulling on the larynx. More smile, and the singer hears a brighter sound; the listener might as well. But you will lose power, and also freedom in the laryngeal function.
hey alexander! i appreciate you starting your real opinion about lip rolls and its uplifting to know that you think that they are not necessary because no matter how much i try i just cant seem to make them right! anyway i was wondering if you know of any exercise that has the same purpose as the lip roll so i can do them instead? thank you!
dana banana Vocal exercises should be prescribed in the context of a full conceptual model of singing technique and what a student needs at their stage of development. The skills that lip rolls, properly applied, should aim to teach are about good breath management, and looseness in the jaw and facial muscles. There are many, many exercises for these, and they should be recommended on the basis of the student's current level of knowledge, ability and need.
I've been wondering, is it alright if I press down on my cheeks with my fingers to make it easier to do lip trills? Or would that defeat the purpose of this vocal exercise?
Light thumb pressure on cheek muscles can free the tension in the face. This is good for releasing tension under the jaw that can impede action in the larynx. It also means that the roll must begin with AIR FLOW, not with gripped muscles in the face or throat, which is also good.
how do i know when im doing lip rolls my chords are thining out or zipping up and gaining a new note, is the sound of between falsetto and chord vibration?
I'm sorry, if I would have read ahead, I believe you just answered my question! Like Kessy S. commented, it might be best for me to just not worry about them.. trying so hard to do them is just making me tenser and tighter... that cannot be a good thing.
@ciornaja Breathing work is hard to put on short RUclips clips; much subtle coordination is needed to breathe well for singing. Different breath techniques favour different kinds of sounds people want to make (in terms of laryngeal setup, position of soft palate and tongue, use of microphone or not etc). It's always presented as 'simple' on internet videos, but it is actually subtle and profound - good breathing is evidence of advanced body awareness and excellent mental and emotional mastery.
i have a couple of questions. i put my fingers in cheeks when lip rolling and have done so for over 2 years since i started doing this. is this bad? also i do the lip rolls about 5/6 times over. Is this too much because for the 1st couple everything is comfortable. But when it gets to the 4th/5th i have trouble getting out the notes comfortably that I am normally fine with. Please help.
First of all, the muscles of the jaw should always be loose and free. Second, the aperture at the front (divergent or convergent), as well as the degree of drop at the back of the jaw depend on resonance requirements for the vocal genre, as well as the vowel-pitch relationship for boosting the first formant. My answer refers to a number of concepts that you'll need to read about, or learn from a competent voice teacher. In the case of a lip roll, the teeth a quite close together, because the lips are semi-closed.
@supahfreeak Hi - I wouldn't set widening your range as a primary goal. It is much more important to establish vocal / muscular behaviour that is healthy and will preserve your voice long term. If you wish to extend your range upwards, there will come a point where you will need to loosen your tongue muscles more (eg doing tongue trills rather than lip trills), release jaw and neck-shoulder muscles, and improve breath support.
Possibly. I teach this very occasionally just to show how loose the tongue and facial muscles can (and should) be when vocalising, but I would never think of the 'double roll' (as I call it) as a central part of technique.
My question is how do you actually do this? I have not been able to do this and all my voice teachers want me to learn this first. I never get anywhere because I can't get passed this. HELP! Please.
+Andreia Guerrero A lip roll is possible during a falsetto. Developing ease at high pitches, whatever your laryngeal set-up, depends on exercises other than lip rolls.
@KarineRibbens The irony is that some RUclips voice 'teachers' (!) think they are demonstrating the free approach when in fact thy are gripping. The 'gripped' approach (starting with b, d or t) works when the singer wants to compress their voice production, and produce compressed sounds (with very little breath support), and let the microphone do the 'heavy lifting' in terms of delivering power. It's not 'vocal' power, but sound engineered power - they just don't recognise the difference. agh!
The question I have for any singer or teacher using a lip roll is: "What EXACTLY are you trying to train in your vocal mechanism and understanding?" Whatever purpose you want to achieve, you then design or choose an appropriate exercise. As for vocal fry, I think of it as a particular vocal 'sound effect'. I do not regard it as useful for training healthy singing, or 'glide' onsets. 'Relaxation' is too vague a concept. The mind should be alert, the transversus abodminis must be engaged when sounding, and the ribs kept wide. the only bit that relaxes is around jaw and neck, and the root of the tongue.
@markbvocal7 I may do a tongue trill video at some point. They are not that critical. Some people's physiology makes tongue trills tricky. Take a look at the tongue loosening videos I have posted and see if they help.
The issue here is HOW to do the lip rolls. It's possible to do almost any good exercise in the wrong way. Lip rolls can be of some use, if done correctly. There are many aspects of singing that one needs to learn in order to sing well. Lip rolls are not a 'magic bullet' for answering all vocal questions. Ask Mr Arcenaux exactly which flaws are ironed out by lip rolls, and what it is about them that irons out the flaws. And accept only extremely answers on anatomy, physics and acoustics.
Hi just a question about the lip rolls I agree that one needs to start with the onset being less gripped as I have been doing liprolls for a while now and have but doing the lip roll as you demonstrate seems for me to run me out of breathe so much quicker is this because I am releasing too much air on onset and or I am using breathe support more with the correct lip roll as demonstrated in your video
+leanne gielens Doing a correct lip roll will use up the air supply more quickly than in normal singing. It CAN be a useful preliminary exercise to enaure sufficient freedom in lips and jaw, and evenness of breath flow (keeping ribs gently expanded, and lower abdominals engaged). But it is not intended to replicate the exact air flow you would use in good singing on a vowel.
+Alexander Massey Hi thankyou so much I just love your videos they are so explanatory that makes sense I also am keen to learn ways to keep the throat open and wide( I sing classical) and how that works with the breathe do you have any tips on this
The 'open' throat is a very vague concept. The throat is always 'open', or we would suffocate. For classical singing, in general, we aim for a low larynx, and a pharynx that is as wide and long as possible. Good neck alignment is part of this; the tongue root must be free, as must the jaw and facial muscles. Breath flow must be managed by ribs and abdominals, not by contracting in the neck and glottis. Imagining a sob or laughing like Santa can help drop the larynx. As you can see, there are many elements to think about. I don't think singing 'tips' are useful much. A serious singer must study regularly with a good teacher, who can assess the many details involved, and guide accordingly.
excellent advice thankyou does the sob enable the larynx to tilt when singing high say high C we are required to sing High C in choir sometimes and this is challenging for me due to tongue tension I think also I would classify myself as a liric mezzo with a good range around three octaves. I do have a teacher I see regularly and this is helping.
Not sure I can give a short answer to that. The general looseness and freedom of tongue, jaw and facial muscles remain important at all pitches for classical singing. Dropping jaw at the back helps release muscles attaching to hyoid, also opens the pharynx and lowers tongue, both of which lower the formants and create warmer sounds for sopranos on their highest pitches. Actually, when the larynx tilts for highest pitches, it also lifts a little - so 'sob' is not quite the idea for top Cs (C6).
Sir,Do u have any lesson for vocal tension ( dysphonic a bit). I have been to a plethora of vocal therapists with no good use but the tension is spreading.Its been 3 years with this ailment and it has developed due to implementing wrong techniques in singing (though taking lessons from a professional) . I lack any kind of physical damage but at the same time lost my entire vocal connection specially the mixed voice part and is only left out with strain which prevent me to talk freely at times.
+Ayan Saha Unfortunately, this can't be fixed with a written reply! There are people who earn their living by setting themselves up as singing teachers. Sadly, there is no guarantee that they have the knowledge that students needs. I think you might need to a) search for a teacher who has genuine expertise, b) be prepared to spend significant time and money in fixing your problems, c) ideally find a singing teacher who is wise and well informed about how to work on the mind-body relationship (ie the 'inner game' and psychology of learning and performing).
Actually sir i am an Indian and here the teachers (and also the doctors) know nothing about physics.How the vocal mechanism works or where one should stop,nothing!! I was experiencing lot of phlegm accumulation on my vocal cords during he last months of my vocal sessions and the teacher said it was due to lack of practice where already i was practicing for 3 -4 hrs daily..At last the collapse.
+Ayan Saha Phlegm can come for many reasons, and not necessarily because of vocal abuse. However, I do not believe phlegm could arise from lack of practice - that sounds like nonsense to me. The teacher seems to be making things up, with no scientific basis. You should not be practising for 3-4 hours. You would need supreme technique to be able to survive that. Practice takes high levels of subtle awareness - unlikely to happen consistently over such a long period. We must apply the right moves, repeatedly, with awareness, in order to train ourselves to sing well. That is better done in much shorter practise periods, with rests in between. And working with high quality information is crucial. I am sorry you have not had the teaching that you need.
+Alexander Massey So can my voice be rehabilitated? I dont mind starting from the ABCs coz i have learnt a lot going through this and everything happens for a reason.
+Ayan Saha I can't give an answer about your voice specifically. But it is certainly worth getting expert help to diagnose what you have been doing that might be contributing to vocal dysfunction, and then acquiring the correct information and its application and practise to your own body (and mind). With more favourable conditions, it would be interesting to discover what you voice could still do.
I have weird random question, so im basically a bass as my teacher told me i can go around like B flat 1 some days a bit lower some days not.. but then i can reach lets say with my chest voice incoulding belting to about a E\F 4 and with my head voice like another ocat, i feel like im somehow cheating, just a question, does head voice counts as part of the range?
+David Viralesa The issue is whether you can make a sound that a) you enjoy, b) others enjoy, c) is appropriate to the music, words and genre you are singing in, d) you are doing this in a way that does not harm you physically.
@StardustPegasis95 All muscle training takes time. The repetition of CORRECT muscle coordinations many times stimulates the body eventually to build a pathway of cells in the brain that becomes a 'memory' pathway. this is how all skills are learned and automated, whether they are muscular, cognitive or emotional patterns.
OMG….you sir are a genius….. my voice is now so free I can’t believe it…I have no tension in getting those high notes now.
Thank you so much.
Actually, warming up on a scale often creates tension. You are likely to create more freedom by doing 'sirens'.
Very well said and demonstrated. I too have seen too many coaches teach this the wrong way with way too much tension. It should be very loose and dopey feeling. N tension in the neck. Tension in the neck means tension on the cords and that's counter to what the liprolls are designed for. Nicely done.
My controversial answer to this would be a) if a singing teacher requires you to learn this before anything else I am not convinced they are a very good teacher, and b) if they cannot teach you how to do it, they are not a very good teacher. It is NOT an important exercise for learning to sing. I posted the video purely to teach people how NOT to do it, since so many people insist on learning to lip trills (which I think is largely not only a waste of time, but often counter-productive.)
Cool :D Is there any way to flex your voice dramatically to make it sound like the opposite gender, or even a little girl? -3- I've been trying to find a way to do that, but I don't even know if it's possible o.O
Ib Chan It is possible for men to use their vocal folds in a specialised way to make a thin, high sound.
Greatness is in the eyes, ears, and mind of the listener. Our views are shaped by our personal biography and cultural experience. 'Great vocalism' is judged relative to the genre of the vocalist.
Unless muscles in throat and neck are locked down, all singers have a slight pitch variation on held notes - this is called vibrato. The cords lengthen and shorten a tiny amount around the note, creating a wave effect that we hear as a 'warm pulsing'. If the vibrato is too wide, we call it 'flap', and if it is too rapid, it sounds like a bleat. Good vibrato occurs automatically from good vocal technique -no shortcuts! 'Constructed' vibrato is used by some pop/jazz singers ending long notes.
I really just wanted to say thank you for your detailed and pedagogic videos.
I have rarely sung at all in the last ten years and I recently joined a choir. My singing voice obviously isn't quite what it used to be. Lip roll is one of the warm ups we have, and has been more of an obstacle for me than help. I could barely get a vibration going even for a second and then the air in my lungs emptied up in no time.
This video made a clear uplift at once! I'll keep practice relaxing my face!
This is Wonderful and 180% TRUE ;) Best video on this subject! Not just a gripped voice but you can think you are loose and free and doing a bubble kind of sound while, in fact, you are compressing the muscles around the vocal cords and larynx!!
More videos Please please...;)
@androcci - Not sure I understand your question. The cords lengthen and thin as you rise in pitch, and thin especially when the cricoid tilts for the higher notes. You will know if the cords thin, because you will go higher. If the voice quality stays reasonably consistent between lower and higher ranges, then tilt has happened, and the cords have thinned. If you hear falsetto, the tilt has not happened - instead, just a part of the length of the cords is vibrating.
Thank you so much for being honest about how you feel about lip rolls! I just can't do them no matter how much I work on it(not without great effort and doing them 'wrong', like you showed). Will stop stressing about it now and just practice other things that are more helpful!
Excellent!
The lip roll helps with practising consistent and sufficient breath flow, as well as relaxed facial and jaw muscles. The tongue roll becomes useful as we go higher - most people start gripping the lips and jaw, but changing to the tongue roll helps keep the freedom in the mouth parts. A gripped and rapid lip roll on high notes may be impressive, but it's bad for the voice.
Thank you for this video Sir! Many people thought lip rolls are a bunch of marketing baloney when in reality they have been taught wrongly how to do it all their lives. When done right, it is one of the best vocal exercises ever because not only it helps connect your registers, but it also takes a TON of tension from your vocal folds prior to preparing you for heavy duty singing!
@valarangel 1. Loose lips will give a strong vibration there. Because of the strong lip vibration, and the closed lips, you won't FEEL much resonance, even when the vocal cords are also vibrating. But the vocal cord vibration will be happening, and your mouth cavity will be resonating. 2. Maintain constant air flow and pressure always. If the abdominals are being used, and the diaphtragm properly braced, you do not need to think about 'speed' of air flow at all.
Thanks. Lip rolls seem to be a favourite of teachers, especially on the web. It's frustrating that so few people understand how to do these things properly. You can have a little bit of knowledge, without proper anatomical information, and do more harm than good.
Not sure what you're describing. The cheeks should be loose, not artificially raised. To release the top lip more, you can gently press thumbs upwards in the 'hole' under the cheekbones, on the rizorius. Tightening facial muscles is counter-productive.
I'm loving your videos. Thank you for making and sharing them. Would you consider doing another about how to encourage the emergence of natural vibrato?
excellent video Alexander. I've never been a huge fan of the lip roll exercise as it does tend to produce a 'pressed' onset. very we'll explained and demonstrated. bravo!
I'm not a fan of the lip roll either. It is not very significant in the larger picture of developing good vocal technique, or even in warm ups. But since so many teachers recommend it, and teach a lip roll method that is BAD for the voice, I felt compelled to create a video that, I hope, clears away the misinformation.
For singing, air comes out of the nose ONLY when doing nasal consonants (M, N, NG). At other times, the soft palate should rise and shut off the air passage from the mouth up into the nose, so no air should be coming out of the nose at all. I wonder if you are trying to push air out for the lip roll using cheek muscles, rather than the breathing process described in my other videos?
As you go higher, the lip roll becomes counter-productive. On high pitches, to make the lips vibrate, we have to grip them more, and tighten the jaw, which the lip roll on lower notes is supposed to train us out of! The tongue roll can take over for the higher notes, which usefully trains us to release tongue tension as we go higher. Tongue rolls generally help us release tongue tension.
Thank you very much for posting this video. I have had singing private lessons, but my teacher never explained this basic exercise with such detail. I hope I'll be in Oxford some time and be a pupil of yours at least for a lesson. Subscribed to your channel. Have a nice day.
Yes, I release a little air first, to prove that the lips do not need to be pressed / sealed before they start vibrating. There is no 'onset' of a P, B or T. It is purely airflow and the gentle approximating of the lips that sets them vibrating. If you look on the Oxford Singing Lessons website, there are two articles there on warmups. A warmup video would be too long. I hope to include it in the eventual DVD.
This is Wonderful and 180% TRUE ;) Best video on this subject! Not just a gripped voice but you can think you are loose and free and doing a bubble kind of sound while, in fact, you are compressing the muscles around the vocal cords and larynx!!
Yes, I know his performances from RUclips. The carrying power of his singing comes from the microphone and amplification equipment. The sound that he makes comes from forcing the vocal folds together, and big constriction in his mouth cavity to enhance just the high harmonics, and filter out the lower ones.
@1nspirator - I agree. The principle being taught in this video is how to launch and sustain the lip roll without lip, tongue, jaw or neck tension. By establishing freedom in lower and middle range of the voice first, the muscles are trained to be better prepared for the higher ranges. Manuel Garcia, the great singing teacher of the 19th century, advised people not to practise their top 5 notes - the secret lies in perfecting the middle range first.
I can't quite picture what you describe. However, the method I suggest keeps the lips and facial muscles very loose, so 'pushing' the cheeks in any direction doesn't sound right ....
@vrensink Thanks for feedback! 1) Some ideas in previous answer below - tuck thumbs under cheekbones 2) Do gentle rotating massage on the side of face on the masseter (biting muscle). 3) Ensure lower jaw (mandible) is not pushed down or forward, but hanging free/loose, slipping slightly 'back' - you get the effect if you begin to curl your bottom lip over your bottom teeth. 4) Pull neck up at the back - relaxes mandible and therefore the lips a little. PS get choir members to subscribe here! :)
This is very good news! So many vocal problems can be resolved with proper re-education of how to use the muscles efficiently. If you ever went to an ENT specialist, you must insist that you show them how you normally sing (they rarely ask this, but should!). That way they can see what muscular patterns you use that may be creating your problems.
Excellent. I have yet to find a singing teacher or choir leader who can give a sound reason for doing lip rolls. Of the many people who recommend them hardly anyone understands the true technical reasons why they might be useful, or the technical reasons why the way most people do lip rolls is actually vocally damaging.
could you please show correct way for tounge trills or more to the point do you believe they have any value?
Thanks. I am currently working on a DVD project which is a much more detailed and structured sequence of videos on singing technique. I may talk about vibrato in that. Do you have a question about natural vibrato?
WHEN WE USE OUR FINGERS ON THE CHEEKS TO DO LIP ROLLS WHAT SHOULD THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE LIPS AND THE FINGERS BE? AND PLZ TELL ME ABOUT THE EXACT TONGUE POSITION DURING LIP ROLLS
@valarangel I wouldn't think of 'positioning' the tongue at all, but more about letting the back and base of it relax. It will then find a position for itself that will keep if from interfering with the resonating space.
Hi Mr Massey. Well firstly, i have to say i am not very good at this exercise because i have tried many times but still unable to do the thrill correctly. Secondly, just to share with you, I come from a choir (Singapore) and i think my conductor has a point, that lip thrills help us with air control and also tests how relaxed our face is when we sing.
While it is good to be able to do this exercise, it is not vital. If you start to get anxious about it, just let it go. It's not important. It's better to focus on the whole body sensory experience of breath management, and feeling loose in the throat and tongue.
When you are doing the free lip roll it sounds as if you're letting a little air go through at the onset, almostt like an "h" sound. Are you adding a slight soft onset before the lip roll? Also, do you think that you could maybe add a vocal warmup video? I find your videos very helpful sense I am doing my own practicing over the summer until I go back to class in the fall. :)
I would like to ask that, could you suggest a University where singer students can learn this kind of deep approach to singing technique. I'm studying singing at a hungarian university, but I miss so much this kind of teaching, nobody teaches here, how to use your body, and how the voice works. Thank you for your answear.
Although you may strain to produce the high note, that does not mean that straining is the only possible method. Straining means you are compensating for inefficient technique.
I can't seem to lip roll past the first few notes. I just seem to loose vibration on the lips.What am I doing wrong?
I find it easier if i do the rolling R's with my tongue.
@Jacc0s Many singers, especially when using a mic, produce high notes thru tightening neck, tongue & jaw. The thin sound doesn't sound too thin because the sound equipment makes it sound much fuller and stronger than it really is - singing like this is never free or easy. Lip rolls work as far as the middle upper range - then you need to use tongue rolls instead (same principles of looseness.) High notes need very advanced freedom in neck, tongue, jaw & facial muscles, and superb low breathing.
hello sir. I have two question regarding liprolls, please.
First: where should the resonance be felt?
Inside one's mouth or mainly in the lips? or even head or nose?
(i feel slight vocal fry in my lips before
liprolls)
Second: Should we aim to slow the flow of air?
I mean, keep a constant flow but a slow one?
Thank you in Advance.
I would need to see the student to be clear exactly what the impediment was. However, I do not believe that lip rolls are that important in vocal training. The real reason I created a video about them was because so many people demonstrate them in ways that would create greater tension and problems in the vocal instrument. What are you trying to teach with the roll - appropriate breath management, gentle vocal onset, loose facial muscles? All these can be taught in other ways.
@speedylife12 You are probably tightening your jaw or lips. Press your thumbs into the side of your face, just in the cheekbones to stop the muscles gripping the top lip, and see if that helps.
This is the wrong question. You should never 'need to strain'. If you are, you have a problem with one or more of these: 1) aligning neck, 2) breath management, 3) tension in tongue, jaw or neck, 4) resonance balancing inside the the mouth and vocal tract generally. Tighter lips create more problems. You could try tongue rolls on higher notes.
so how do I use the lip rolls to extend my range and reach the higher notes without strain? because i have been doing the lip rolls for about a week now, and i am not seeing much improvement. i mean there are a few times when i reach my highest (which is probably E above middle C, sometimes F, and between G and A above middle C is my break) note. i have heard that it takes a while for your muscles to get used to the exercise, so my question is how long? :) thanks !
There could be several factors - insufficient or unsteady air flow, tight jaw or facial muscles.
Start by NOT singing or vocalising. Just do the breathing exercises without vocal sound, to develop a strong sensory awareness and memory of what the abdominals, ribs and back should feel like. This gives you a reference point for how things should feel in your body when you re-introduce making vocal sound.
My question is really just about how to get vibrato going consistently; right now mine is patchy and unreliable.
From viewing other videos I suspect that many well-trained/skilled singers have probably long since forgotten what it's like NOT to have free vibrato so can't fully identify with beginners, but suggest methods anyway. None of their techniques work for me.
A fair case is made that it should emerge naturally with training/freeing of the voice. Or can you proffer a shortcut?! :)
Hi, tks for the video. But what must i do if i lip roll to a certain high note that need me to strain or else no sound would be produced?
Great video and very useful 😀🙏
@valarangel I forgot. should the tongue be curved upwards in
the shape of an arch while lip-rolling? so that the uvula
doesn't touch the tongue itself ?
@Jacc0s Got a bad cold at the moment, and then lots of students to see to make up for the break in my schedule because of the throat infection. So hope to make more videos late Dec, early Jan.
Yes. Until people have learned good coordination, they tend to press the folds together and force air through a tight aperture. This restricts range, and over time, can produce contact ulcers or nodules. Upper notes should be approached only as we develop highly refined skills in our middle range.
Extending range is not achieved through lip rolls. It is a result of coordinating MANY muscle groups, including releasing neck, tongue, jaw, understanding 'standing waves' and formants, superb breath control and alignment. It takes months to years to develop perfect coordination for singing extreme ranges well. If you are concerned after only one week, then you need to re-think the timescale you expect to see results. 6-8 months (assuming excellent teaching) is a more realistic expectation.
Question for you - I have a student with a speech impediment and I can not get her to leave her lips together to "bubble" her lips. I've tried having her do the motion in water and she can do it there but not outside water - with or without sound. Do you have any suggestions?
@StardustPegasis95 Microscopic puff of air before lip vibration. Thumb pressure on muscle underneath cheekbone will train release of top lip to vibrate more freely. Back of jaw must be free, dropped slightly back (back of jaw is open, even when lips are together). Breath from diaphragm work is NOT DEEP ENOUGH. Ribs must be wide, shoulders low. Engage abdominals by pressing lower back against wall (knees slightly bent). Neck improves by holding book against wall behind head at same time.
This video actually help me improve like A LOT thanks
how long does it take to be able to do lip rolls 2 octaves higher than your natural range? because i am still in my natural range, and whenever i hear other people do this exercise, they always seem to go higher and higher without effort. someone , please answer,, i would really appreciate it.
@4urentertainment2010 A breathing video is high on my list of priorities, so I hope to do one soon. In the meantime, a few quick tips: 1) Breathe strongly down a straw - you'll feel muscles in your abdomen and even pelvis supporting the breath. 2) Bend your knees and see if your exhalation is stronger. 3) Rotate or rock your pelvis to deepen the abdominal muscle support. 4) Put a foot at hip height on a wall and sing - see if your breath and sound gets stronger from the abdominal work.
Hi, thanks for the detailed video! I hope to put it to good use but I can't seem to even be able to do lip rolls, any tips that can help me be able to do them?
I think mechanism and benefit behind lip trill excercise are much deeper than how you describe and explain it. One part that I agree only is that lip trill should not be performed under strained conditions. Only small fraction of voice teachers know how to correctly perform lip trils.
+Jackey Eom A lip trill done done as described on this video would indicate a) free and relaxed lips and facial muscles, b) a free jaw, c) and well managed breath flow. So, if you were trying to learn/teach these things, a lip trill could be useful. In addition, a lip trill is a 'semi-occluded exercise'. In other words, the mouth is half-closed, and the lips slightly inihibit the escape of air and the sound wave from the mouth. This increases the back pressure - the pressure that bears down on the vocal folds from above (supra-glottic pressure); this, in turn, can make phonation (the vibration of the folds so as to make sound) occur with less exertion, and minimises the possbility of pressed phonation (where the closed quotient of the vibratory cycle is far greater than the open quotient). So, the longer explanation is that lip trills can be useful for singing training. But, as Jackey Eom on says, "only a small fraction of voice teachers know how to correctly perform lip trills" and, I suspect, even a smaller fraction know what the pedagogical usefulness might be .... which is why, on RUclips, where so much bad teaching goes on, and so many learners trust the wrong people, I tend to advise people to leave the lip trill well alone. Unless taught properly, for the right student at the right time in their development, I think lip trilling (done the wrong way) can do more harm than good.
Excuse me. Does it make a diference if we smile and then do the liprolls?
Amazing video, few tips and it makes huge diference, please, please, please put breathing excersises :D Thank you
Pushing on the skin of your cheeks is inefficient. The top lip needs to be released for vibration by pressing on the rizorius muscle. To do this, drop your jaw loosely open; point your thumbs upwards, palms facing away from you; towards the front of the face, tuck thumbs vertically up underneath the cheekbones; keep thumbs there and do the lip roll, which should now be easier (with enough breath flow). If you accidentally 'grip' your lips, you'll feel your thumbs getting pushed out.
I was taught how to do lip rolls while sort of pushing my cheeks upward to allow my lips more freedom. would this be doing it incorrectly?
@egarrulo Talking to singing teachers, I have discovered that many do not know the detail. I think it is good for a student to ask teachers detailed questions to find out EXACTLY what the anatomy should be doing, and why, both for physical health and efficiency, and in terms of what sound should be produced as a result. Many teachers cannot answer such questions unfortunately.
thanks for the feedback. one more question if you don't mind. Is it true that when doing lip rolls, trying to do notes that you are not yet ready for i.e. the higher ones can diminish your range?
excellent advice, i have been doing the roll the WRONG way!!!
Alex, I love your video. Do you have any suggestions for alternative exercises that produce a more significant result?
What result are you looking for?
You can also use your fingers to do the lip Trills
Really excellent advice!
My nose gets itchy everytime I do lip trills, and I can'tdo a lip trill with a compressed jaw
Andreia Guerrero if your nose gets itchy, you are just getting extra resonance in your nose area, there isnt anything wrong with it
Hii alexander.. thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with every1. I have this one big problem you know when i sing really high my voice sounds very squeezed , struggled kinda nasal quality to it which i dont like at all ..... but i am able to sing that high but i wanna get rid of all tht...could you pls answer...please sir
You need to do all the usual checks. Are you aligning well in your spine - no head forwards or chin up? Is your jaw free (and not too wide), are the tongue muscles underneath free? Above all, are you managing air flow with open ribs (ie diaphragm braced downwards), with abdominal muscles engaged? Unsuccessful high notes come from faulty technique in middle notes. No way round it, you need a decent teacher watching and listening.
gotya....thanks :)
thank you for the video and your comment below!
Hi Alex, I normally try to do my lip roll warm up to a scale. Is it important that I hit the notes right? or its just the technique that matters?
Yes. Experiment to feel and hear the difference. I would not smile too much in a lip roll. You are likely to tighten your muscles behind and underneath the jaw, leading to too much pulling on the larynx. More smile, and the singer hears a brighter sound; the listener might as well. But you will lose power, and also freedom in the laryngeal function.
hey alexander! i appreciate you starting your real opinion about lip rolls and its uplifting to know that you think that they are not necessary because no matter how much i try i just cant seem to make them right! anyway i was wondering if you know of any exercise that has the same purpose as the lip roll so i can do them instead? thank you!
dana banana Vocal exercises should be prescribed in the context of a full conceptual model of singing technique and what a student needs at their stage of development. The skills that lip rolls, properly applied, should aim to teach are about good breath management, and looseness in the jaw and facial muscles. There are many, many exercises for these, and they should be recommended on the basis of the student's current level of knowledge, ability and need.
I've been wondering, is it alright if I press down on my cheeks with my fingers to make it easier to do lip trills? Or would that defeat the purpose of this vocal exercise?
Light thumb pressure on cheek muscles can free the tension in the face. This is good for releasing tension under the jaw that can impede action in the larynx. It also means that the roll must begin with AIR FLOW, not with gripped muscles in the face or throat, which is also good.
how do i know when im doing lip rolls my chords are thining out or zipping up and gaining a new note, is the sound of between falsetto and chord vibration?
I'm sorry, if I would have read ahead, I believe you just answered my question! Like Kessy S. commented, it might be best for me to just not worry about them.. trying so hard to do them is just making me tenser and tighter... that cannot be a good thing.
@ciornaja Breathing work is hard to put on short RUclips clips; much subtle coordination is needed to breathe well for singing. Different breath techniques favour different kinds of sounds people want to make (in terms of laryngeal setup, position of soft palate and tongue, use of microphone or not etc). It's always presented as 'simple' on internet videos, but it is actually subtle and profound - good breathing is evidence of advanced body awareness and excellent mental and emotional mastery.
i have a couple of questions. i put my fingers in cheeks when lip rolling and have done so for over 2 years since i started doing this. is this bad? also i do the lip rolls about 5/6 times over. Is this too much because for the 1st couple everything is comfortable. But when it gets to the 4th/5th i have trouble getting out the notes comfortably that I am normally fine with. Please help.
Thanks a lot. This is useful information for me.
+Marleen Vanbuel You're welcome!
This man is spot on.
Sir.. i have a big doubt.. should the teeth in both the jaws touch each other or kept apart ?
First of all, the muscles of the jaw should always be loose and free. Second, the aperture at the front (divergent or convergent), as well as the degree of drop at the back of the jaw depend on resonance requirements for the vocal genre, as well as the vowel-pitch relationship for boosting the first formant. My answer refers to a number of concepts that you'll need to read about, or learn from a competent voice teacher. In the case of a lip roll, the teeth a quite close together, because the lips are semi-closed.
What a nice present ..thks a lot
@supahfreeak Hi - I wouldn't set widening your range as a primary goal. It is much more important to establish vocal / muscular behaviour that is healthy and will preserve your voice long term. If you wish to extend your range upwards, there will come a point where you will need to loosen your tongue muscles more (eg doing tongue trills rather than lip trills), release jaw and neck-shoulder muscles, and improve breath support.
Is there any benefit in doing the lip roll and tongue trill at the same time? (Noob Singer)
Possibly. I teach this very occasionally just to show how loose the tongue and facial muscles can (and should) be when vocalising, but I would never think of the 'double roll' (as I call it) as a central part of technique.
I'm still trying to figure out how to get my diaphragm to do the singing. I'm always too high and flat when I sing.
My question is how do you actually do this? I have not been able to do this and all my voice teachers want me to learn this first. I never get anywhere because I can't get passed this. HELP! Please.
I do falsettos, Is there a way to do a lip rolls while in falsetto so that you have better technique/ higher range?
+Andreia Guerrero A lip roll is possible during a falsetto. Developing ease at high pitches, whatever your laryngeal set-up, depends on exercises other than lip rolls.
Oooh! Thank you so much for the response! :)
@KarineRibbens The irony is that some RUclips voice 'teachers' (!) think they are demonstrating the free approach when in fact thy are gripping. The 'gripped' approach (starting with b, d or t) works when the singer wants to compress their voice production, and produce compressed sounds (with very little breath support), and let the microphone do the 'heavy lifting' in terms of delivering power. It's not 'vocal' power, but sound engineered power - they just don't recognise the difference. agh!
May I ask what you would recommend in place of the lip roll? And what your thoughts on vocal fry for teaching relaxation are?
The question I have for any singer or teacher using a lip roll is: "What EXACTLY are you trying to train in your vocal mechanism and understanding?" Whatever purpose you want to achieve, you then design or choose an appropriate exercise. As for vocal fry, I think of it as a particular vocal 'sound effect'. I do not regard it as useful for training healthy singing, or 'glide' onsets. 'Relaxation' is too vague a concept. The mind should be alert, the transversus abodminis must be engaged when sounding, and the ribs kept wide. the only bit that relaxes is around jaw and neck, and the root of the tongue.
@markbvocal7 I may do a tongue trill video at some point. They are not that critical. Some people's physiology makes tongue trills tricky. Take a look at the tongue loosening videos I have posted and see if they help.
The issue here is HOW to do the lip rolls. It's possible to do almost any good exercise in the wrong way. Lip rolls can be of some use, if done correctly. There are many aspects of singing that one needs to learn in order to sing well. Lip rolls are not a 'magic bullet' for answering all vocal questions. Ask Mr Arcenaux exactly which flaws are ironed out by lip rolls, and what it is about them that irons out the flaws. And accept only extremely answers on anatomy, physics and acoustics.
@infernalphast9 I know - there are so many people teaching bad techniques on youtube - it's very frustrating.
Hi just a question about the lip rolls I agree that one needs to start with the onset being less gripped as I have been doing liprolls for a while now and have but doing the lip roll as you demonstrate seems for me to run me out of breathe so much quicker is this because I am releasing too much air on onset and or I am using breathe support more with the correct lip roll as demonstrated in your video
+leanne gielens Doing a correct lip roll will use up the air supply more quickly than in normal singing. It CAN be a useful preliminary exercise to enaure sufficient freedom in lips and jaw, and evenness of breath flow (keeping ribs gently expanded, and lower abdominals engaged). But it is not intended to replicate the exact air flow you would use in good singing on a vowel.
+Alexander Massey Hi thankyou so much I just love your videos they are so explanatory that makes sense I also am keen to learn ways to keep the throat open and wide( I sing classical) and how that works with the breathe do you have any tips on this
The 'open' throat is a very vague concept. The throat is always 'open', or we would suffocate. For classical singing, in general, we aim for a low larynx, and a pharynx that is as wide and long as possible. Good neck alignment is part of this; the tongue root must be free, as must the jaw and facial muscles. Breath flow must be managed by ribs and abdominals, not by contracting in the neck and glottis. Imagining a sob or laughing like Santa can help drop the larynx. As you can see, there are many elements to think about. I don't think singing 'tips' are useful much. A serious singer must study regularly with a good teacher, who can assess the many details involved, and guide accordingly.
excellent advice thankyou does the sob enable the larynx to tilt when singing high say high C we are required to sing High C in choir sometimes and this is challenging for me due to tongue tension I think also I would classify myself as a liric mezzo with a good range around three octaves. I do have a teacher I see regularly and this is helping.
Not sure I can give a short answer to that. The general looseness and freedom of tongue, jaw and facial muscles remain important at all pitches for classical singing. Dropping jaw at the back helps release muscles attaching to hyoid, also opens the pharynx and lowers tongue, both of which lower the formants and create warmer sounds for sopranos on their highest pitches. Actually, when the larynx tilts for highest pitches, it also lifts a little - so 'sob' is not quite the idea for top Cs (C6).
Sir,Do u have any lesson for vocal tension ( dysphonic a bit).
I have been to a plethora of vocal therapists with no good use but the tension is spreading.Its been 3 years with this ailment and it has developed due to implementing wrong techniques in singing (though taking lessons from a professional) . I lack any kind of physical damage but at the same time lost my entire vocal connection specially the mixed voice part and is only left out with strain which prevent me to talk freely at times.
+Ayan Saha Unfortunately, this can't be fixed with a written reply! There are people who earn their living by setting themselves up as singing teachers. Sadly, there is no guarantee that they have the knowledge that students needs. I think you might need to a) search for a teacher who has genuine expertise, b) be prepared to spend significant time and money in fixing your problems, c) ideally find a singing teacher who is wise and well informed about how to work on the mind-body relationship (ie the 'inner game' and psychology of learning and performing).
Actually sir i am an Indian and here the teachers (and also the doctors) know nothing about physics.How the vocal mechanism works or where one should stop,nothing!! I was experiencing lot of phlegm accumulation on my vocal cords during he last months of my vocal sessions and the teacher said it was due to lack of practice where already i was practicing for 3 -4 hrs daily..At last the collapse.
+Ayan Saha Phlegm can come for many reasons, and not necessarily because of vocal abuse. However, I do not believe phlegm could arise from lack of practice - that sounds like nonsense to me. The teacher seems to be making things up, with no scientific basis. You should not be practising for 3-4 hours. You would need supreme technique to be able to survive that. Practice takes high levels of subtle awareness - unlikely to happen consistently over such a long period. We must apply the right moves, repeatedly, with awareness, in order to train ourselves to sing well. That is better done in much shorter practise periods, with rests in between. And working with high quality information is crucial. I am sorry you have not had the teaching that you need.
+Alexander Massey So can my voice be rehabilitated? I dont mind starting from the ABCs coz i have learnt a lot going through this and everything happens for a reason.
+Ayan Saha I can't give an answer about your voice specifically. But it is certainly worth getting expert help to diagnose what you have been doing that might be contributing to vocal dysfunction, and then acquiring the correct information and its application and practise to your own body (and mind). With more favourable conditions, it would be interesting to discover what you voice could still do.
Thank you, this is all very helpful.
I have weird random question, so im basically a bass as my teacher told me i can go around like B flat 1 some days a bit lower some days not.. but then i can reach lets say with my chest voice incoulding belting to about a E\F 4 and with my head voice like another ocat, i feel like im somehow cheating, just a question, does head voice counts as part of the range?
+David Viralesa The issue is whether you can make a sound that a) you enjoy, b) others enjoy, c) is appropriate to the music, words and genre you are singing in, d) you are doing this in a way that does not harm you physically.
@StardustPegasis95 All muscle training takes time. The repetition of CORRECT muscle coordinations many times stimulates the body eventually to build a pathway of cells in the brain that becomes a 'memory' pathway. this is how all skills are learned and automated, whether they are muscular, cognitive or emotional patterns.
I was doing falsetto lip rolls (so basically, flip rolls) :P