I'm impressed that this viral idea managed to integrate the worst aspect of cloverleafs (overlapping lane crossing in both directions) with the worst aspect of roundabouts (the lack of express lanes). It's efficient design in terms of maximizing disadvantages.
If the junction is double strong-shaped, double is the efficiency of course. If it's efficient in a positive or negative way is only up to how much of an architect is the one in charge of the project. It can be either 2 times better or 2 times worse than a regular non-strong-shaped intersection.
Just having to go left lane, cross over to the right, cross back into the left, and then when you escape go back to the right lane, if you want to go straight ahead along the main axis is insane.
The turbo roundabout should not be double lanes. Should be singular lanes. Also the lanes on the inside are not fully connected. They stop 3/4th of the way to avoid giving way a million times. In the Netherlands you got plenty if these roundabouts and they work perfectly fine.
not sure if these are like you mention, but what i see with a turbo roundabout is one where the lanes keep moving outwards. so the first lanek goes 1/4 of the way, 2nd lane goes 1/2 of it. a very good exampel of this is Kooimeer roundabout in Alkmaar. each lane goes either rigtht or straight and as there are 5 exits, there is a total of 5 lanes on it to enter @@bananagaming7612
Yeah for a guy who designed roads for a living, he really screwed up the implementation of a pretty basic design. I only saw it at a glance and I knew he was doing it wrong. I presume he had it pulled up on his phone or a different screen and still couldn't emulate it. Weird.
@@McP1mpin i think he messed it up on purpose for content because i specificly remember a video from this guy explaining how they work. (not that i didn't know... just interesting)
@@bananagaming7612they are not necessarily better, just different. It is not four way symmetrical, there's an orientation to it. So it is quite useful when a busy road meets a less busy road. The busy road remains 2 way all the way thoughout for going straight and only needs to worry about 1 lane of traffic coming in and having to give way for. The less busy road only has one lane to go straight (the right lane is a right turn only in a right side of the road model). Since in a lot of real world cases a roundabout is a place where a less busy road crosses a more busy road, it makes sense in a lot of places, but it's definitely not always better. (Most roundabouts are 1 lane anyway, in which case you literally cannot build a turbo roundabout).
13:15 you know how you change a 1 way road by using the replace tool and drag in the opposite direction? That's also how you change the direction for an asymmetrical road :D Also 17:15 you remove them the same way you remove stop signs and stuff: right click
Also the reason those cars were turning was because he hadn’t added turning restrictions to the tiny intersection they were turning from, just the intersection before 😅
As a dutchy (and someone who uses a turbo roundabout every day) that turbo roundabout does not work as intened at all. That's mostly because of CS2, in reality they work great! As long a everyone follows the signs and arrows it's great.
@@darkracer1252 It's also physically not possible to make most of the illegal moves the game makes. There is a barrier in the way (not enough to genuinely wreck a car or anything, but enough to make drivers reconsider the chances of doing so), and the turns the cars can make in the game are much too tight IRL. The scale is also too big in the game, a turbo roundabout is about the same size as a regular roundabout with one lane.
It's a nightmare for motorcycles though. So many bad places where blind spots would ensure nobody would see you. It seems almost hellbent on killing bikers. I will note there is strong evidence in IRL crashes on roundabouts that people tend to sideswipe bikes a lot when merging into the roundabout.
I think that square roundabout is for 4-Lane roads with medians, where traffic will be less and people will need to make u-turns to access buildings on the other side of the road.
I don't know about anywhere else but in the US (at least in New Jersey) , when there is a very short merge onto a fast moving highway, there is often a dedicated Lane for a few hundred feet so the car can build up enough speed to merge into traffic. Obviously the merging cars still have to wait until there's a break or feel confident enough but, that crashing issue at first would probably be handed out at least mitigated by an addition of a brief extra lane for the cars to merge and yield should they have to.
That did annoy me in Finland... They had 120km/h speed limit 2 lane Motorway class A and expected you to accelerate from 40 - 50km/h to 120km/h in an extremely short distance when getting on the motorway. It seemed they in Finland assume everyone is driving a 300+ HP sports car...
So, I live in Metro Detroit, and all of our major intersections look like that. The difference is that we still have stoplights, so people can just go straight. You can’t turn left at the light, so if you want to turn left you have to use turnarounds by making a right, or by going straight through the intersection and using a turnaround (if it’s a large divided road of the same design). We call those “Michigan Lefts” because we love turning right on red, and from a turnaround it’s also legal to complete a turn if the traffic is clear. That said, there are interesting situations where having intersections built like that are helpful. During a power outage, cops will often park in the middle of the intersection to block anyone from driving straight through, which turns it into exactly the thing you saw in that video and recreated. My area has an annual street cruise, where they block off a lane and several turnarounds for classic cars only, in addition to blocking the traffic from traveling straight through on the smaller crossroads. It’s annoying because you have to drive over a mile out of your way because of the event traffic, but it allows for a consistent (albeit slow) traffic flow, which is far safer than trying to drive through an intersection that size without the help of the lights to cut the flow. Sometimes there are lights that hold traffic using a turnaround, because there’s just too much traffic for it to be possible to continue without the assistance of the light. At less busy times of the day, it turns into a blinking red, and often at very busy intersections they will post a sign that says “No turn on red” at the light where the roads meet, and sometimes at the light they put at the first turnaround. I’ve seen smaller cities in the state (several hours north) where they don’t have much real traffic, and they do goofy shit where they allow people to turn in addition to making a proper “Michigan Left.” Those intersections have accidents, because they’re subverting the expectations of how those divided roads and their massive intersections function. We basically don’t have any mass transit in any part of the state, because back in the day, the automakers made sure to shoot down any attempts at that, and they influenced Detroit’s politicians to get rid of the fairly shitty, electric street cars, that were ridiculously unsafe for pedestrians, because they were in the middle of the road. So people would run from the curb out into the middle of the street while they were stopped, and it wasn’t like they were necessarily timed with the lights, so these things would block up the turn lane, in the dead middle of the road, and they would hop on or off whenever it slowed down, while there were cars zipping around in all directions. It’s amazing that more kids and older idiots weren’t killed. I think the reason they got rid of them was because the overhead cables looked like shit and prevented taller vehicles from traveling through the areas where the streetcars were, and I’m sure it chapped someone’s ass that deliveries had to go around or be offloaded onto smaller vehicles for the last leg. Honestly, I think you’d get a kick out of looking at some of the ways we build roads here in Detroit, because we’ve been doing it pretty much longer than anyone and solved a lot of the congestion problems ages ago. The divided roads with turnarounds are great, because even if traffic is so bad that you literally can’t get across all the lanes in order to make your turn, you can keep left and go through to hit the turnaround just past the intersection, or if you made the right, but can’t get over to the left because of a backup caused by construction or an accident, or something, then you can keep going straight and working your way over to the left lane, and just use one of the other turnarounds a little further from the intersection. It sucks going just a little bit further out of your way, but it sure beats sitting still with a turn signal on, while holding up traffic in order to get over. Of course, there are morons too stupid or too rude to do that sometimes and they will try to force their way into the line of cars-but those people make your architects look like saints or engineers by comparison. Literally the worst of the worst that even pedophiles can fairly claim to have moral superiority over. Sadly, these oxygen thieving dregs aren’t as easy to spot walking amongst us, otherwise we would’ve sorted out their ilk a long time ago with some sort of human rights violation or war crimes.
I came here to say the same thing. It could have worked without lights by making the tru lanes into overpasses and the u-turns into a temp 3rd lane instead of restricting the flow of traffic so much
Im from Michigan and The Michigan left is good at alleviating traffic, but it creates a completely unwalkable city, forcing people to then have to buy cars to go anywhere
Here in the Greater Detroit area we also have quite many classical roundabouts, ant that one at 14 mile + Orchard Lake Rd is the most dangerous crossing in the state :)
Turbo roundabouts are fairly common in Spain, but they are a lot simpler than what you built, they're nice because they eliminate the problem of the car on the inside wanting to turn out while the one on the outside wants to stay in. Most of them have traffic lights, though to be fair, most urban roundabouts in spain do, we even have some horrid roundabouts with traffic lights inside the roundabout for the cars inside it to give way to cars coming in. In southern Spain (mainly Málaga) I've also seen roundabouts where the main road goes straight through the middle sorta like this Ø and imo they are a mess of traffic lights and worse than a regular roundabout in every way, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on them
In the Netherlands we have Keizer Karel Plein. The traffic coming on to, and leaving the roundabout are managed by traffic rights. 1 to 6 lanes, its not like it has any lines. Also, traffic from the right has right of way. It can go 2 ways: people know how to deal with it and it becomes super efficient. Or some people don't know how to deal with it and it becomes a enormous dangerous cluster fuck.
Over here they have a tunel under the roundabout for those wanting to go straight ahead and the roundabout on top for the rest and its very convenient. The one you have in Málaga sounds needlessy complicated since they could could just tunnel under it.
We have a fair few over in England similar to the one you mentioned in Málaga, for example one in a town near Reading. They can be easy to navigate, but like you said are a mess of lights
Only a few minutes in but this junction doesn't seem to be intended for equal amounts of traffic from each side. It is more a onto a highway and off a highway situation. Not crossing streets with equal amounts of traffic. Especially the north south route is really blocked by this junction
It's really meant for limited-access expressways, not fully controlled-access freeways. The idea is that you're trying to prioritize through traffic on the major arterial as much as possible, while traffic on the cross street is mainly feeding the arterial and through traffic on the cross street is minimal. It's very stroady. It's really just a step up from the Michigan left (I guess in left-handed traffic, that would be a Michigan right?) except the minor street is fully severed in the middle so even traffic proceeding across the major street has to take the inner u-turn slip lanes instead of meeting the major street at a two-phase light. It's called a "superstreet" (no, really). The basic design doesn't have those outer u-turn lanes though. Matt's right, they're completely redundant. Even if you did need to hang a U, you'd just proceed across and use the inner u-turn lane.
The U-Turns make sense if this is a separated road with many access points. When you enter the road you can only go one way (left in your case) and if your destination is to the right, you'll have to go to the next interchange or roundabout to turn around. There's a system called a "Michigan Left" that is kinda similar to this but with signal control. Growing up with them all around, the idea of turning right to make a left is not so crazy to me Also, to get the asymmetric road to go the way you want, click hold and drag in the direction of traffic you want to have the extra lanes
Just like I saw in Austin TX. On the service road and you need to get to the other side of the highway service road a dedicated lane in the right to make that u-turn and avoid entering the actual road going across the highway.
Here in Texas most highways have Texas turn arounds under the overpasses. They save a light and two lefts for movements to the frontage road on the other side of rhe highway
@@Codeaholic1 I think the key is I'm referring to an unlimited access highway, not limited. The "highways" in this case have business access within 1000 feet of the intersections on both roads
You're trying to make a "Michigan Left" by going right. When you know how it works, it's great for the business district sprawl of SB/NB Gratiot between Detroit and Mt Clemens. The only downside is tourists being in the wrong lanes cuz they don't know enough to see the clearly marked road diagrams. Well, cars are the real issue, the road itself isn't a problem!
The first, rectangleabout works well when one direction get a large majority of the traffic and generally doesn't turn. For example a highway with a rural route cross street. Highway 15 in Maryland is 22 miles of sequences of these. There are no stop lights so the highway keeps going and each of the small roads can only go right. It works well. The turboroundabout can work but requires lots of signs and either needs to be very large or have slow traffic. Dupont Circle in Washington, DC is a well-known one.
I remember the viral image in question, the animation for it never showed anyone merging off of the central "Not-roundabout" and the same cars stayed in that lane forever, constantly looping.
Clover leaf - mythical reasoning for their use. Heavy snowfall, plowing. Snowplows only have one bridge over traffic that would potentially drop snow on the lanes below. All other intersection designs have multiple bridges where snow would fall and impact traffic flow. Bridges cause icing and more bridges also creates more opportunities for crashes above and below on the ramps. More snowfall maintenance required. Verification needed.
The first one is a benefit for heavy urban areas where there is a median that keeps you from trying to get to the other side of the road you are on, so instead of adding traffic to the roundabout as you make your way all the way back to where you started, you can avoid that. It would not be good for something like highway traffic where there's no reason to turn back around. The main benefit of cloverleaf intersections is that you don't need extra bridges. If you're just dealing with paper or a simulation, it doesn't make sense, but it's one of the most cost efficient high speed designs for highway intersections with how little bridge work is needed. That's why they are all over the place in the US where things are spread out so a lot of intersections don't have very much traffic comparatively. Plus we would have even more bridges that need to be repaired or replaced if we had other intersections
I'd love to see how a Diverging Diamond interchange would work in CS2. Not sure how popular they are in Europe, but I've had a few pop up around me in the US. Basically, it's an interstate interchange that is designed so that you never have to cross over traffic to get on or off the interstate. I actually quite like them. Cheers Matt and Paddy.
We have the first one going up in our city. It'll have taken 3 years by the time it'll done. They got the bridge part done as winter set in so there's a bunch of signs and concrete barriers up keeping traffic flow as it was before. I assume they'll make the actual traffic changes come spring.
I tried to make a diverging diamond and I couldn't figure out how to swap the lane directions without taking up a ton of space with separate one way roads. And if you're doing that, you might as well use another intersection type that takes up the same amount of space. The advantage of diverging diamonds IRL is that they're as compact as a simple rural interchange while being safer for drivers to use.
In the UK we basically only have diverging diamonds and roundabouts (which are also designed to avoid cross over). Honestly don't understand how countries more car dependent than the UK can function without them.
One of the interchsngss in my area was set up as a diverging diamond on the overpass, and within a week of it opening there was a collision from someone going the wrong way through it.
In Michigan we have large roadways with the u turns in the middle. But they have small dedicated lanes so the left lane doesn’t just abruptly turn into a I turn lane. They work pretty well.
The U-turn bits are probably for if there's a lot of side roads before this interchange that instead of crossing the highway, join the highway traffic and have to go back a bit to actually go where they want. They're actually getting popular in the rural US.
This is the problem with all of these internet "Civic engineers". They come up with all of these complex designs to "fix traffic", and somehow completely forget that human beings will be driving in those roads, and human beings don't do well with confusing complicated roads. A large portion of people miss their freeway exits regularly. And those are just normal run of the mill exits.
We have those turbo-roundabouts all over the place here in The Netherlands. Very efficient. However, I have seen foreigners get so confused they stop and start reversing. I know, reversing on a roundabout.
It's the one flaw in the design of turbo-roundabouts. Once you're in the wrong lane, it's hard to stay in the roundabout and get to the exit you wanted. Though I think the Keizer Karelplein is peak perfection when it comes to roundabouts. Bicyclists and pedestrians are protected by traffic lights, and cars get anywhere between 2 and 7 lanes of space as is needed. It's just the tourists who don't pay attention and do daft things that makes it dangerous.
Seems like 2 ways loose the ability to u-turn. If you ever make a mistake you need to turn around somewhere else. I agree it seems efficient for everybody that knows exactly where they're going and how, but anybody that discovers the intersection or doesn't know the city perfectly would have a hard time. I'm honestly not sure what it solves compared to a regular roundabout
The turbo-roundabouts here have fairly large mini-speedbumps separating the lanes, so you can cross them if necessary. I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to though.@@GrdAlf
That Interchange you were looking at appears to be along the lines of a Median U turn lane aka Michigan left. Pull up your favorite world map software and look around the Detroit area, particularly Woodward ave, Telegraph road, 8 mile, and Big Beaver Road (a few miles north in Troy). Have a fun moment if Following I75 north to Exit 69 Big Beaver Road (Diverging Diamond interchange)
I grew up in Metro Detroit and I got Michigan left vibes too. It actually works quite well in practice, and I kinda miss them to be honest. (Unfortunately moved to Illinois. 0/10. Would not recommend.)
Impressed with how little mat still knows about the road system after all his ‘special’ builds in cs2 lol. If you want to remove a forces left turn thingy, just right click the road with that tool to undo it. If you want to have your unsymmetrical roads turn the other way, hold left click and move towards that direction a bit. Hope it helps, keep on with the great content!
yeah the real world ones are just like a normal roundabout but with an extra lane. and those lanes do have restrictions that end up doing kinda like the same as the one in the video. so the essence is the same but the real ones are much smaller, and work really great.
@@Faselbob you do have to get used to them, yes. but once you've got to know them, they become "just another roundabout". but with better traffic flow.
@@Faselbob Not really? You just have a little sign at the entrance of each roundabout saying which lane goes which way. Outer lane is right turns only, inner lane is straight ahead and left turns only. I've encountered similar roundabouts before (I don't know what it was called, but the lanes sort of spiraled outwards) and it was very easy to navigate.
@@FaselbobWhat makes them unintuitive to you? Just follow the markings to get where you need to go? Left lane for straight ahead and left turns and right lane for right turns.
A couple of years ago, we got these sorts of road connections everywhere in the city and it improved the traffic and driving conditions tremendously. We still have some stoplights, on roundabouts actually, to help with really busy intersections to avoid chokepoints since the roundabout does not have the space to be bigger
It’s amazing how much my highway design knowledge has increased by watching these videos. Where at first I would have been totally lost by Matt’s explanations, now I can follow along. (Though I definitely still don’t know enough to contradict what Matt says).
same at first when Cs 2 came out i played for fun, but i had like too much traffic problem and i didn't know what to do to make road better even for highways too my first highways is a monstrosity and no one using it, and road next to the water i was always having water problem on that too until i saw matt's video about that even for the level terrain tool now my city look way better knowing even tho i am from North America so we drive the other way around XD
The turbo-roundabout might work better with less lanes, and also by connecting it up correctly. They were all over Aruba and about the same size as ordinary roundabouts on similarly sized roads in the UK, with only one or two incidents of tourists running over the big kerbs in between the lanes on the roundabouts that I saw.
I think they're planning on installing two of them near me on either side of the highway. And yes, it would be 2 lanes. Both lanes allow going straight through the intersection, but the right lane for right turns and the left lane for either u-turns or left turns. I'm assuming that's more or less what you've got. This type is new to me here in America. It's only been in the last 10-15 years that the local DOT has started installing proper roundabouts.
9:38 nah m8, the road is just messed up. Look at that grey line going across the road. It's probably its own segment making the AI think it’s the last segment to cross lanes and we both know the AI loves to cross lane as late as possible. Redoing the road there could solve that issue Tho, it do be a clog even if it wasn’t for the messed up road.
0:38 it’s exactly the same traffic pattern as a magic roundabout but shortens the return and removes a bunch of connections and loops that will never be used except in error.
@@MyVanir indeed! a roundarectahedrawhateverabout already has a built in solution for human error, just make the entire lap. to make 50% of the infrastructure specifically just for the "human element" is not giving a lot of confidence in human cognition, let's put it like that... XD
This is used significantly in Baku, Azerbaijan. From what I saw, they are much larger, providing more time for “lane swapping”, are generally four lanes in each direction, and since it’s not always practical to have an intersection where roads meet, you instead are forced to enter and turn right with traffic, then just go up to the next u-turn and go back the other way. It’s true, I don’t think it’s the most efficient, but it really wasn’t that bad, when trying to expand on existing and crowded infrastructure.
I'm from Hyderabad, India and the first type of intersection is like 70% of all intersections on the Inner Ring Road lmao. I can confirm those not-a-roundabout U turns are crazy chaos. But it basically has higher flow (supposedly) in high traffic density situations than a traffic light and costs *no* extra space *at all* compared to even a SPUI or something similar. Most of this in Hyderabad are actually converted from normal 4-way intersections due to increasing traffic. There are also 3 way intersections built the same way.
Those "full triangle" interchanges are amazing. I've been using them as my go-to highway option for years. (They're the 3-way version of the 4-way "full diamond" that was actually built back in the day, but most don't exist any more.)
To see a Dash Cam video on this kind of road, Search 'Chris Harden The Entire Length of Detroit's Telegraph Road From Toledo to Pontiac' and skip to about 11:55 where the road picks up a median. at 13 minutes is the start of the Michigan Left History.
First one exists in Michigan, north of Lansing on a section of 127. It's similar to the Michigan lefts that I am used to, just we have signals which requires less phases because to go left you go right first, and you can go straight from both directions with a normal michigan left intersection. I think it's an under rated design.
I think the thing for this type of intersection would be low to medium traffic *non-highway* roads, the main upside being no traffic lights as the original video says. The incoming U turns would only make sense if you had divided roads not allowing turns across (see the east part of Loop 323 around Tyler, TX, for example).
The turn arounds are good if you have businesses along the highway. I live near San Antonio, I don't know if it's a Texas wide thing, but we have Frontage Roads. They're one way roads that run parallel to highways and will have pretty much all sorts of businesses right along the highway. The turnarounds aren't really useful if you don't have anything along the road though.
this actually works very well in dense cities, such as the one I live in... that said it's almost always a 3 lane road with additional turn lanes. IRL traffic is a dream even at rush hour.
the triangle interchange is actually almost a perfect replica of an intersection in Denmark, between Kolding, Fredericia and Vejle(aptly named the triangle area)
The "turbine roundabout" is an actual thing, and there's one in Concord, Massachusetts along US Rt 2, to connect the main highway to three county roads. I wish they'd build the highway to go straight over the roundabout because it gets so backed up there. Also get rid of the traffic lights in that area as well because again, more heavy traffic. adds an extra 30 minutes just to get through the area. But apparently Concord residents are heavily not in favor of removing the traffic lights, and those are the only folks who can have a say what happens with the highway through their town, apparently.
These interchanges are common in middle east. There is usually a collector running along the highway or small connections to the highway, which conect to the local streets. These local street/connector only connect to one side of the highway, which is why the u turns are necessary.
we have something here called a texas u turn. every inter section has u turns that go under over passes. mainly they are on frontage roads next to highways and freeways. would love to look into making a texas u turn in the game. thanks.
That issue at 9:00 made me stop cities skylines 2 for a while tbh. Got sick of having to completely rebuild some parts of the city because the cims can't think ahead but do 3 point turns at the end.
Matt, you NEED to take a Cities Skylines 2 lesson/walkthrough from Biffa(or just any RUclips tutorial). You are missing so many important things that make this game good.
13:55 as a dutch person (no engineering degree but doesn’t matter here) the turbo roundabout is intended to remove weaving accidents on multiple lane roundabouts, and create faster through traffic from the highway onto the by-way. It isn’t very standard but quite common when there is alot of flow in 2 directions from the roundabout and not alot from the other two directions. For other situations, lots of traffic in 4 directions we tend to use traffic lights or a proper interchange.
Points of collision on turbo roundabouts is very low. However, as the first example showed, cities skylines doesn’t care as much about people’s lives, any more than American policymakers do
Just watched a little further. You really struggle with this like an American. I just laughed at how bad your turbo-roundabout looks. It is atrocious, both in visuals and practicality.
On the off-chance this comment gets read. Matt. Left click adds Restrictions/functions to roads, right click removes them. So taking the no left turn away is as easy as selecting it and right click. Same goes with the stripey things (sorry, forget what they are called, we call 'em zebra stripes)
They work if one of the roads goes straight through the intersection and doesn't allow left turns. At that point, it's basically a Michigan left and those are pretty efficient.
To remove something from a road or junction, you can select the thing you want gone and press right click instead of left. As for changing the extra lane to the other side, you can click the road and drag in the direction you want it to go. It'll show up in the preview too.
The cheapest intersection that provides safety is the roundabout. The cheapest and fastest for cars is the 4 way stop (assuming no signals for either). If AI are able to follow road rules perfectly, then you can make a bidirectional roundabout that is more efficient for car movements (kind of similar to the idea of a turbo roundabout). Yet this means human drivers have at least 2x more opportunities to fuck up. Nice exploration here!
Day 153 of asking Matt to add the Second Narrows Bridge, Ironworkers Memorial to the Wheel of Bridgetune It is a cantilevered truss bridge, carrying 6 lanes of traffic from Vancouver to North Vancouver in B.C. across the second narrowing of the Burrard Inlet. It's name comes from the fact that it collapsed twice during construction, which unalived 23 people in total (Hence the name, ironworkers memorial).
oh yeah we have those interchanges in my city they only make traffic worse because cars going straight need to cut across 3 or 4 lanes _twice_ add to that same road disappearing lanes and associated pavement (just yeeting you onto dirt), large rocks in random places, decade-old paint that was already faded a couple of years in, and no lights on most of the road (the areas where these intersections are do have them tho) and it makes for a very fun road
In Long Beach, California there exists a roundabout originally created in time for the 1932 Olympics to handle the increased traffic volume in the region. Five streets meet here: Pacific Coast Highway (twice), Lakewood Blvd, & Los Coyotes Diagonal. The intersection has been adjusted a few times over the decades but now includes a partial turbo section that I think still invites confusion, particularly travelling northbound on one of two lanes on PCH entering just before Los Coyotes. Inner lane people sometimes enter the round into the outer lane, cutting off outer lane people, & needing to exit onto Lakewood Blvd northbound. Maybe this was the best solution to a difficult traffic problem.
Last year I went on a road trip through England and Scotland and I got ptsd from all of the weird roundabout constructions. Why do you guys make it so complicated 😂
I love that you keep reminding us that you drive on the other side of the road. I can only imagine how many comments you've received saying that you're going the wrong way lol
Hey Matt, you actually taught me about cloverleaf interchanges through your Cities skylines gameplay, so when my dad mentioned it the other day I knew what he was talking about! (For some context; I'm 21 but can't legally drive because of neurological issues that would make working everything at once difficult.)
This design of road way is used in UAE! A lot and it works great! It’s not supposed to be on a highway or freeway, it’s actually apart of the city streets as UAE has high medians and fences to keep people from being able to turn around. This actually works fantastic in UAE, don’t have to stop for a light or sign to turn around and go back the other direction!
lol where i live in germany we have two of very similar intersections. They are called "eggs" and were made in the 50s and 60s. It's basically designed to avoid left hand turns over the oncoming lane and the need to build expensive bridges, so if you want to go left, you pass the exit, turn arround und turn right. So yeah quite similar to a round about, but with straight lanes trough and designed for much more traffic. I find them brilliant solutions, because theese "eggs" are so simple, yet effective.
Real Architect here! You haven't understood the turbo roundabout as you showed. I am from the Netherlands where they are everywhere. On the entry you cross only one lane with traffic so you can merge faster on the roundabout and you (generally) never switch lanes on the roundabout before you exit. Just make sure to pick the right lane before you enter the roundabout as it determines your options for exiting. Btw look how compact it is compared to yours ;)
I think a series like this would be a good idea, a kind of 'Does this popular design work?' or 'Interchange myth busters.' it would be very informative for people trying to design interchanges, both in game and in real life, plus it will actually test the popular designs instead of people just accepting them because they look nice. (Like the architects they are.)
I was literally thinking when the game came out "Once the game is matured enough so turbo roundabouts are possible, I will get it" :D So I'm glad to see this video explaining the complications!
CHALLENGES, MYTHS, AND FACTS FOR RCE [MATT] TO TRY -In CS1 you could empty your cemetery and graveyard completely by leaving them on a perpetual removal and having crematorium and garbage processing levels in at least yellow, thus never giving you a demand for more cemeteries and landfills. Does it still work in CS2. -Buses are more efficient and profitable than trains/metro Challenge: 25% of income is from PT [ridiculous right?] -Fact: your city's traffic is great with the absence of buses. Challenge: build a city where your expressways and/or major arteries as well as the bus lines are all below and i guess above the surface since you love bridges so much. Preference to below though.... I know you can fight the urge to bridge everything for the sake of a challenge, Matt... or can you? ;) Sadly my PC is outdated at the moment and my Cities Skylines 2 sits in my inventory all pristen as i sit back and watch your videos while eating my lunches , but perhaps you can look into these. Side note, as a carpenter, you reinvigorate my sanity revolving around poorly designed structures that make me want to drag the artsy idiot that dreamed it up through the streets on their belly. lol sorry, im bitter at work today for obvious reasons.
20:41 I don't know if you'd noticed this yet, but there's traffic lights when leaving the roundabout, making traffic halt inside of it.... Also.. Have you considered making the bits that overlap when entering/leaving the roundabout, raised platforms, so that they don't have to give way? It should be single lanes anyway, cars in CS2 really don't know how to merge
We have a couple of turbo roundabouts in a city near where I live and they are garbage, unnecessarily confusing and annoying especially if you don't drive on them very often
The u turn bits are a way to avoid having intersections elsewhere nearby on the road and to avoid building overpasses/underpasses. They only function properly when there are other similar intersections, or at least similar u turn spots, on the same road. Also, the spots where cars were merging and going through each other can be made 100x better by having 2 lanes going off. That way cars only need to change lanes if they want to go straight or go around the other side. This intersection is literally just a square roundabout with u turn lanes before the roundabout.
This intersection is a roundabout... Ok, rectangleabout... Only you don't have to go completely around it to go back the way you came (which every roundabout gives you the option to do), which reduces the traffic on the roundabout itself. The problem is the tight turns and the fact that people wanting to go back the way they came is a tiny fraction of the traffic.
The benefits of the Turbine Interchange isn't increased capacity - its to avoid a 3 or even 4 level interchange. We have great interchanges that work better or as good a turbine, but they require a ton of structure. The Turbine works good when you have a ton of land so you avoid the cost of multi-level interchanges.
We have some roundabouts like that turbo roundabout where I'm at (us). Usually used at intersections with a four lane main road (two each way) and a two lane road. Your main road keeps two lanes each way, right lane for right and straight, left lane for straight and left. The minor road only has one lane(except an occasional right turn only onto the main road). On the minor road the one lane goes every direction. I think whatever you were trying to set up was more complex than it was supposed to be
Had a thought: maybe a collab with Biffa. 2 engineering minds doing a traffic management challenge, or bouncing ideas in a video series. Would be a cool video!😊
I'm pretty certain the reason for wacky designs, is that even the most efficient roads can become clogged, but some people just can't accept that. The real solution to too much traffic, is to have less traffic, as in create modal shifts with things like buses, or trains.
This new design is indeed free of traficlights, but it doesn't do anything to mitegate the amount of points of conflicts in the setup. Also, I'd at minimum add two bridges crossing over the middle so if you are arriving at a wider side you can cross over immidiety without having to do a big driver-around to get through. The turbine interchange is far supperior in that there is little to none points of conflict in the layout if done correrctly. The problem however occours if too many vehicles tries to use the same one exit
I think the idea with the u-turn lanes is so that this interchange can scale to different situations. If it's being marketed as a "Roundabout Killer" then it would need to serve all of the same functions, U-turning being one of them. I've definitely needed to make a u-turn in a roundabout before. On a highway it may not be necessary but if you're getting more residential or rural cases (if you have a rural road with farms off of it, it can be easy to miss a turn especially if there's shrubbery)
I'm impressed that this viral idea managed to integrate the worst aspect of cloverleafs (overlapping lane crossing in both directions) with the worst aspect of roundabouts (the lack of express lanes). It's efficient design in terms of maximizing disadvantages.
If the junction is double strong-shaped, double is the efficiency of course.
If it's efficient in a positive or negative way is only up to how much of an architect is the one in charge of the project.
It can be either 2 times better or 2 times worse than a regular non-strong-shaped intersection.
But you do get a dedicated U-turn lane, which is the most important part of any intersection.
It also takes a lot of room
Just having to go left lane, cross over to the right, cross back into the left, and then when you escape go back to the right lane, if you want to go straight ahead along the main axis is insane.
@@user-td3yi1mq7pyea but im pretty sure in the game you don’t need u turn cus cars don’t make mistakes
The turbo roundabout should not be double lanes. Should be singular lanes. Also the lanes on the inside are not fully connected. They stop 3/4th of the way to avoid giving way a million times. In the Netherlands you got plenty if these roundabouts and they work perfectly fine.
They are way better than normal roundabouts in my area there are basically only turbo roundabouts
not sure if these are like you mention, but what i see with a turbo roundabout is one where the lanes keep moving outwards. so the first lanek goes 1/4 of the way, 2nd lane goes 1/2 of it. a very good exampel of this is Kooimeer roundabout in Alkmaar. each lane goes either rigtht or straight and as there are 5 exits, there is a total of 5 lanes on it to enter
@@bananagaming7612
Yeah for a guy who designed roads for a living, he really screwed up the implementation of a pretty basic design. I only saw it at a glance and I knew he was doing it wrong. I presume he had it pulled up on his phone or a different screen and still couldn't emulate it. Weird.
@@McP1mpin
i think he messed it up on purpose for content because i specificly remember a video from this guy explaining how they work.
(not that i didn't know... just interesting)
@@bananagaming7612they are not necessarily better, just different. It is not four way symmetrical, there's an orientation to it. So it is quite useful when a busy road meets a less busy road. The busy road remains 2 way all the way thoughout for going straight and only needs to worry about 1 lane of traffic coming in and having to give way for. The less busy road only has one lane to go straight (the right lane is a right turn only in a right side of the road model). Since in a lot of real world cases a roundabout is a place where a less busy road crosses a more busy road, it makes sense in a lot of places, but it's definitely not always better. (Most roundabouts are 1 lane anyway, in which case you literally cannot build a turbo roundabout).
When we see our city has traffic issues we see a problem. When Matt sees the city has traffic issues he sees content
I've taught him well 😂
They just have no money
200 % biffa@@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines
And when Matt sees no traffic issues, he sees an opportunity to create issu... I mean content.
Lol
13:15 you know how you change a 1 way road by using the replace tool and drag in the opposite direction? That's also how you change the direction for an asymmetrical road :D
Also 17:15 you remove them the same way you remove stop signs and stuff: right click
And you can remove crosswalks the same way!
Thank you! It mentions swicting one-ways but it never mentions the asymmetric roads
Also the reason those cars were turning was because he hadn’t added turning restrictions to the tiny intersection they were turning from, just the intersection before 😅
just right click it and it flips the road.
@@darkracer1252that worked in CS1, not in CS2 though
As a dutchy (and someone who uses a turbo roundabout every day) that turbo roundabout does not work as intened at all. That's mostly because of CS2, in reality they work great! As long a everyone follows the signs and arrows it's great.
Let's be real, most of the world's problems would be solved if people just did what they should and listened to instructions.
it doesn't work as intended because it was built wrong.
he has crossing lanes. they don't exist on a turbo roundabout.
@@darkracer1252 It's also physically not possible to make most of the illegal moves the game makes. There is a barrier in the way (not enough to genuinely wreck a car or anything, but enough to make drivers reconsider the chances of doing so), and the turns the cars can make in the game are much too tight IRL. The scale is also too big in the game, a turbo roundabout is about the same size as a regular roundabout with one lane.
@@AnnekeOosterink
yeah you can drive over the barrier. but it will damage something on the car.
It's a nightmare for motorcycles though. So many bad places where blind spots would ensure nobody would see you. It seems almost hellbent on killing bikers. I will note there is strong evidence in IRL crashes on roundabouts that people tend to sideswipe bikes a lot when merging into the roundabout.
That U-turns reminds me of Texas roads with the Texas Turnarounds. These are revolutionary. They work well, but you can't have them in isolation.
I think that square roundabout is for 4-Lane roads with medians, where traffic will be less and people will need to make u-turns to access buildings on the other side of the road.
I don't know about anywhere else but in the US (at least in New Jersey) , when there is a very short merge onto a fast moving highway, there is often a dedicated Lane for a few hundred feet so the car can build up enough speed to merge into traffic. Obviously the merging cars still have to wait until there's a break or feel confident enough but, that crashing issue at first would probably be handed out at least mitigated by an addition of a brief extra lane for the cars to merge and yield should they have to.
That did annoy me in Finland... They had 120km/h speed limit 2 lane Motorway class A and expected you to accelerate from 40 - 50km/h to 120km/h in an extremely short distance when getting on the motorway. It seemed they in Finland assume everyone is driving a 300+ HP sports car...
So, I live in Metro Detroit, and all of our major intersections look like that. The difference is that we still have stoplights, so people can just go straight. You can’t turn left at the light, so if you want to turn left you have to use turnarounds by making a right, or by going straight through the intersection and using a turnaround (if it’s a large divided road of the same design). We call those “Michigan Lefts” because we love turning right on red, and from a turnaround it’s also legal to complete a turn if the traffic is clear.
That said, there are interesting situations where having intersections built like that are helpful. During a power outage, cops will often park in the middle of the intersection to block anyone from driving straight through, which turns it into exactly the thing you saw in that video and recreated. My area has an annual street cruise, where they block off a lane and several turnarounds for classic cars only, in addition to blocking the traffic from traveling straight through on the smaller crossroads. It’s annoying because you have to drive over a mile out of your way because of the event traffic, but it allows for a consistent (albeit slow) traffic flow, which is far safer than trying to drive through an intersection that size without the help of the lights to cut the flow. Sometimes there are lights that hold traffic using a turnaround, because there’s just too much traffic for it to be possible to continue without the assistance of the light. At less busy times of the day, it turns into a blinking red, and often at very busy intersections they will post a sign that says “No turn on red” at the light where the roads meet, and sometimes at the light they put at the first turnaround.
I’ve seen smaller cities in the state (several hours north) where they don’t have much real traffic, and they do goofy shit where they allow people to turn in addition to making a proper “Michigan Left.” Those intersections have accidents, because they’re subverting the expectations of how those divided roads and their massive intersections function.
We basically don’t have any mass transit in any part of the state, because back in the day, the automakers made sure to shoot down any attempts at that, and they influenced Detroit’s politicians to get rid of the fairly shitty, electric street cars, that were ridiculously unsafe for pedestrians, because they were in the middle of the road. So people would run from the curb out into the middle of the street while they were stopped, and it wasn’t like they were necessarily timed with the lights, so these things would block up the turn lane, in the dead middle of the road, and they would hop on or off whenever it slowed down, while there were cars zipping around in all directions. It’s amazing that more kids and older idiots weren’t killed. I think the reason they got rid of them was because the overhead cables looked like shit and prevented taller vehicles from traveling through the areas where the streetcars were, and I’m sure it chapped someone’s ass that deliveries had to go around or be offloaded onto smaller vehicles for the last leg.
Honestly, I think you’d get a kick out of looking at some of the ways we build roads here in Detroit, because we’ve been doing it pretty much longer than anyone and solved a lot of the congestion problems ages ago. The divided roads with turnarounds are great, because even if traffic is so bad that you literally can’t get across all the lanes in order to make your turn, you can keep left and go through to hit the turnaround just past the intersection, or if you made the right, but can’t get over to the left because of a backup caused by construction or an accident, or something, then you can keep going straight and working your way over to the left lane, and just use one of the other turnarounds a little further from the intersection. It sucks going just a little bit further out of your way, but it sure beats sitting still with a turn signal on, while holding up traffic in order to get over. Of course, there are morons too stupid or too rude to do that sometimes and they will try to force their way into the line of cars-but those people make your architects look like saints or engineers by comparison. Literally the worst of the worst that even pedophiles can fairly claim to have moral superiority over. Sadly, these oxygen thieving dregs aren’t as easy to spot walking amongst us, otherwise we would’ve sorted out their ilk a long time ago with some sort of human rights violation or war crimes.
I came here to say the same thing. It could have worked without lights by making the tru lanes into overpasses and the u-turns into a temp 3rd lane instead of restricting the flow of traffic so much
First thing I thought of was the michigan left as well.
Im from Michigan and The Michigan left is good at alleviating traffic, but it creates a completely unwalkable city, forcing people to then have to buy cars to go anywhere
As an Ann Arbor local, that is exactly what I was thinking. Just a Michigan Left, but juiced up a little.
Here in the Greater Detroit area we also have quite many classical roundabouts, ant that one at 14 mile + Orchard Lake Rd is the most dangerous crossing in the state :)
Turbo roundabouts are fairly common in Spain, but they are a lot simpler than what you built, they're nice because they eliminate the problem of the car on the inside wanting to turn out while the one on the outside wants to stay in. Most of them have traffic lights, though to be fair, most urban roundabouts in spain do, we even have some horrid roundabouts with traffic lights inside the roundabout for the cars inside it to give way to cars coming in.
In southern Spain (mainly Málaga) I've also seen roundabouts where the main road goes straight through the middle sorta like this Ø and imo they are a mess of traffic lights and worse than a regular roundabout in every way, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on them
I learned about turbo roundabouts recently. There is one being built not far from me in California. Exciting times!
Well I'm from Granada (hello fellow Andalusian btw) and I've never seen one in my life lmao
In the Netherlands we have Keizer Karel Plein. The traffic coming on to, and leaving the roundabout are managed by traffic rights. 1 to 6 lanes, its not like it has any lines. Also, traffic from the right has right of way.
It can go 2 ways: people know how to deal with it and it becomes super efficient. Or some people don't know how to deal with it and it becomes a enormous dangerous cluster fuck.
Over here they have a tunel under the roundabout for those wanting to go straight ahead and the roundabout on top for the rest and its very convenient. The one you have in Málaga sounds needlessy complicated since they could could just tunnel under it.
We have a fair few over in England similar to the one you mentioned in Málaga, for example one in a town near Reading. They can be easy to navigate, but like you said are a mess of lights
Only a few minutes in but this junction doesn't seem to be intended for equal amounts of traffic from each side. It is more a onto a highway and off a highway situation. Not crossing streets with equal amounts of traffic. Especially the north south route is really blocked by this junction
It's really meant for limited-access expressways, not fully controlled-access freeways. The idea is that you're trying to prioritize through traffic on the major arterial as much as possible, while traffic on the cross street is mainly feeding the arterial and through traffic on the cross street is minimal. It's very stroady. It's really just a step up from the Michigan left (I guess in left-handed traffic, that would be a Michigan right?) except the minor street is fully severed in the middle so even traffic proceeding across the major street has to take the inner u-turn slip lanes instead of meeting the major street at a two-phase light.
It's called a "superstreet" (no, really). The basic design doesn't have those outer u-turn lanes though. Matt's right, they're completely redundant. Even if you did need to hang a U, you'd just proceed across and use the inner u-turn lane.
The U-Turns make sense if this is a separated road with many access points. When you enter the road you can only go one way (left in your case) and if your destination is to the right, you'll have to go to the next interchange or roundabout to turn around. There's a system called a "Michigan Left" that is kinda similar to this but with signal control. Growing up with them all around, the idea of turning right to make a left is not so crazy to me
Also, to get the asymmetric road to go the way you want, click hold and drag in the direction of traffic you want to have the extra lanes
Michigan left is what I thought of.
Just like I saw in Austin TX. On the service road and you need to get to the other side of the highway service road a dedicated lane in the right to make that u-turn and avoid entering the actual road going across the highway.
Here in Texas most highways have Texas turn arounds under the overpasses. They save a light and two lefts for movements to the frontage road on the other side of rhe highway
@@Codeaholic1 I think the key is I'm referring to an unlimited access highway, not limited. The "highways" in this case have business access within 1000 feet of the intersections on both roads
You're trying to make a "Michigan Left" by going right.
When you know how it works, it's great for the business district sprawl of SB/NB Gratiot between Detroit and Mt Clemens.
The only downside is tourists being in the wrong lanes cuz they don't know enough to see the clearly marked road diagrams.
Well, cars are the real issue, the road itself isn't a problem!
The first, rectangleabout works well when one direction get a large majority of the traffic and generally doesn't turn. For example a highway with a rural route cross street. Highway 15 in Maryland is 22 miles of sequences of these. There are no stop lights so the highway keeps going and each of the small roads can only go right. It works well.
The turboroundabout can work but requires lots of signs and either needs to be very large or have slow traffic. Dupont Circle in Washington, DC is a well-known one.
I know the name of the architect prison is due to the poo moat…..but Architraz has such a better ring to it😂😂
I remember the viral image in question, the animation for it never showed anyone merging off of the central "Not-roundabout" and the same cars stayed in that lane forever, constantly looping.
I remember it was made by a student
Clover leaf - mythical reasoning for their use. Heavy snowfall, plowing. Snowplows only have one bridge over traffic that would potentially drop snow on the lanes below. All other intersection designs have multiple bridges where snow would fall and impact traffic flow. Bridges cause icing and more bridges also creates more opportunities for crashes above and below on the ramps. More snowfall maintenance required. Verification needed.
The first one is a benefit for heavy urban areas where there is a median that keeps you from trying to get to the other side of the road you are on, so instead of adding traffic to the roundabout as you make your way all the way back to where you started, you can avoid that. It would not be good for something like highway traffic where there's no reason to turn back around.
The main benefit of cloverleaf intersections is that you don't need extra bridges. If you're just dealing with paper or a simulation, it doesn't make sense, but it's one of the most cost efficient high speed designs for highway intersections with how little bridge work is needed. That's why they are all over the place in the US where things are spread out so a lot of intersections don't have very much traffic comparatively. Plus we would have even more bridges that need to be repaired or replaced if we had other intersections
I'd love to see how a Diverging Diamond interchange would work in CS2. Not sure how popular they are in Europe, but I've had a few pop up around me in the US. Basically, it's an interstate interchange that is designed so that you never have to cross over traffic to get on or off the interstate. I actually quite like them. Cheers Matt and Paddy.
We have the first one going up in our city. It'll have taken 3 years by the time it'll done. They got the bridge part done as winter set in so there's a bunch of signs and concrete barriers up keeping traffic flow as it was before. I assume they'll make the actual traffic changes come spring.
Didn't someone do that for a video already.
I tried to make a diverging diamond and I couldn't figure out how to swap the lane directions without taking up a ton of space with separate one way roads. And if you're doing that, you might as well use another intersection type that takes up the same amount of space. The advantage of diverging diamonds IRL is that they're as compact as a simple rural interchange while being safer for drivers to use.
In the UK we basically only have diverging diamonds and roundabouts (which are also designed to avoid cross over). Honestly don't understand how countries more car dependent than the UK can function without them.
One of the interchsngss in my area was set up as a diverging diamond on the overpass, and within a week of it opening there was a collision from someone going the wrong way through it.
"I get distracted and nerd out about safety barriers" is possibly your most compelling ad yet for your patreon.
In Michigan we have large roadways with the u turns in the middle. But they have small dedicated lanes so the left lane doesn’t just abruptly turn into a I turn lane. They work pretty well.
The U-turn bits are probably for if there's a lot of side roads before this interchange that instead of crossing the highway, join the highway traffic and have to go back a bit to actually go where they want. They're actually getting popular in the rural US.
This is the problem with all of these internet "Civic engineers". They come up with all of these complex designs to "fix traffic", and somehow completely forget that human beings will be driving in those roads, and human beings don't do well with confusing complicated roads. A large portion of people miss their freeway exits regularly. And those are just normal run of the mill exits.
We have those turbo-roundabouts all over the place here in The Netherlands. Very efficient.
However, I have seen foreigners get so confused they stop and start reversing. I know, reversing on a roundabout.
It's the one flaw in the design of turbo-roundabouts. Once you're in the wrong lane, it's hard to stay in the roundabout and get to the exit you wanted. Though I think the Keizer Karelplein is peak perfection when it comes to roundabouts. Bicyclists and pedestrians are protected by traffic lights, and cars get anywhere between 2 and 7 lanes of space as is needed. It's just the tourists who don't pay attention and do daft things that makes it dangerous.
Die vent snapt echt niet hoe je er een bouwt hahaha
Seems like 2 ways loose the ability to u-turn. If you ever make a mistake you need to turn around somewhere else.
I agree it seems efficient for everybody that knows exactly where they're going and how, but anybody that discovers the intersection or doesn't know the city perfectly would have a hard time. I'm honestly not sure what it solves compared to a regular roundabout
The turbo-roundabouts here have fairly large mini-speedbumps separating the lanes, so you can cross them if necessary. I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to though.@@GrdAlf
It speeds up traffic-flow, because you don't have all vehicles in one lane when their destination is different. @@GrdAlf
That Interchange you were looking at appears to be along the lines of a Median U turn lane aka Michigan left.
Pull up your favorite world map software and look around the Detroit area, particularly Woodward ave, Telegraph road, 8 mile, and Big Beaver Road (a few miles north in Troy).
Have a fun moment if Following I75 north to Exit 69 Big Beaver Road (Diverging Diamond interchange)
I grew up in Metro Detroit and I got Michigan left vibes too. It actually works quite well in practice, and I kinda miss them to be honest. (Unfortunately moved to Illinois. 0/10. Would not recommend.)
"Exit 69 Big Beaver Road"
This has to be a joke, right??
...checks maps...
Oh my, it's not a joke
@@dominickpastoreit is truly the best highway coincidence ever.
@@dominickpastore There used to be a Hooters restaurant there in Troy. You would get off on Exit 69 to Big Beaver for Hooters.
Michigan has entered the chat.
Impressed with how little mat still knows about the road system after all his ‘special’ builds in cs2 lol. If you want to remove a forces left turn thingy, just right click the road with that tool to undo it. If you want to have your unsymmetrical roads turn the other way, hold left click and move towards that direction a bit. Hope it helps, keep on with the great content!
Honestly coming from the Netherlands. Those turbo roundabouts are amazing. They look different than yours but they work great.
yeah the real world ones are just like a normal roundabout but with an extra lane.
and those lanes do have restrictions that end up doing kinda like the same as the one in the video.
so the essence is the same but the real ones are much smaller, and work really great.
They're super unintuitive, though.
@@Faselbob you do have to get used to them, yes.
but once you've got to know them, they become "just another roundabout".
but with better traffic flow.
@@Faselbob Not really? You just have a little sign at the entrance of each roundabout saying which lane goes which way. Outer lane is right turns only, inner lane is straight ahead and left turns only. I've encountered similar roundabouts before (I don't know what it was called, but the lanes sort of spiraled outwards) and it was very easy to navigate.
@@FaselbobWhat makes them unintuitive to you? Just follow the markings to get where you need to go? Left lane for straight ahead and left turns and right lane for right turns.
A couple of years ago, we got these sorts of road connections everywhere in the city and it improved the traffic and driving conditions tremendously. We still have some stoplights, on roundabouts actually, to help with really busy intersections to avoid chokepoints since the roundabout does not have the space to be bigger
It’s amazing how much my highway design knowledge has increased by watching these videos. Where at first I would have been totally lost by Matt’s explanations, now I can follow along. (Though I definitely still don’t know enough to contradict what Matt says).
same at first when Cs 2 came out i played for fun, but i had like too much traffic problem and i didn't know what to do to make road better even for highways too my first highways is a monstrosity and no one using it, and road next to the water i was always having water problem on that too until i saw matt's video about that even for the level terrain tool now my city look way better knowing even tho i am from North America so we drive the other way around XD
The turbo-roundabout might work better with less lanes, and also by connecting it up correctly. They were all over Aruba and about the same size as ordinary roundabouts on similarly sized roads in the UK, with only one or two incidents of tourists running over the big kerbs in between the lanes on the roundabouts that I saw.
I think they're planning on installing two of them near me on either side of the highway. And yes, it would be 2 lanes. Both lanes allow going straight through the intersection, but the right lane for right turns and the left lane for either u-turns or left turns. I'm assuming that's more or less what you've got. This type is new to me here in America. It's only been in the last 10-15 years that the local DOT has started installing proper roundabouts.
9:38 nah m8, the road is just messed up. Look at that grey line going across the road. It's probably its own segment making the AI think it’s the last segment to cross lanes and we both know the AI loves to cross lane as late as possible. Redoing the road there could solve that issue
Tho, it do be a clog even if it wasn’t for the messed up road.
Graphical and vehicle behavior glitches indicating a bad segment of road are the biggest misunderstood issue in this game, it seems.
0:38 it’s exactly the same traffic pattern as a magic roundabout but shortens the return and removes a bunch of connections and loops that will never be used except in error.
I find you, the engineer, not understanding the purpose of having a u-turn to account for the human element of mistakes, hilarious
It's redundant then, since they can just do a full circuit of the rectanabout.
@@MyVanir indeed! a roundarectahedrawhateverabout already has a built in solution for human error, just make the entire lap. to make 50% of the infrastructure specifically just for the "human element" is not giving a lot of confidence in human cognition, let's put it like that... XD
This is used significantly in Baku, Azerbaijan. From what I saw, they are much larger, providing more time for “lane swapping”, are generally four lanes in each direction, and since it’s not always practical to have an intersection where roads meet, you instead are forced to enter and turn right with traffic, then just go up to the next u-turn and go back the other way. It’s true, I don’t think it’s the most efficient, but it really wasn’t that bad, when trying to expand on existing and crowded infrastructure.
I'm from Hyderabad, India and the first type of intersection is like 70% of all intersections on the Inner Ring Road lmao. I can confirm those not-a-roundabout U turns are crazy chaos. But it basically has higher flow (supposedly) in high traffic density situations than a traffic light and costs *no* extra space *at all* compared to even a SPUI or something similar.
Most of this in Hyderabad are actually converted from normal 4-way intersections due to increasing traffic. There are also 3 way intersections built the same way.
Those "full triangle" interchanges are amazing. I've been using them as my go-to highway option for years. (They're the 3-way version of the 4-way "full diamond" that was actually built back in the day, but most don't exist any more.)
To see a Dash Cam video on this kind of road, Search 'Chris Harden The Entire Length of Detroit's Telegraph Road From Toledo to Pontiac' and skip to about 11:55 where the road picks up a median. at 13 minutes is the start of the Michigan Left History.
First one exists in Michigan, north of Lansing on a section of 127.
It's similar to the Michigan lefts that I am used to, just we have signals which requires less phases because to go left you go right first, and you can go straight from both directions with a normal michigan left intersection. I think it's an under rated design.
Imagination is the highest kite one can fly.
I think the thing for this type of intersection would be low to medium traffic *non-highway* roads, the main upside being no traffic lights as the original video says. The incoming U turns would only make sense if you had divided roads not allowing turns across (see the east part of Loop 323 around Tyler, TX, for example).
Actually interested to see how this layout does in mini motorways or a similar game
The turn arounds are good if you have businesses along the highway. I live near San Antonio, I don't know if it's a Texas wide thing, but we have Frontage Roads. They're one way roads that run parallel to highways and will have pretty much all sorts of businesses right along the highway. The turnarounds aren't really useful if you don't have anything along the road though.
Matts videos are always educational...on what not to do
this actually works very well in dense cities, such as the one I live in... that said it's almost always a 3 lane road with additional turn lanes. IRL traffic is a dream even at rush hour.
the triangle interchange is actually almost a perfect replica of an intersection in Denmark, between Kolding, Fredericia and Vejle(aptly named the triangle area)
The "turbine roundabout" is an actual thing, and there's one in Concord, Massachusetts along US Rt 2, to connect the main highway to three county roads.
I wish they'd build the highway to go straight over the roundabout because it gets so backed up there. Also get rid of the traffic lights in that area as well because again, more heavy traffic. adds an extra 30 minutes just to get through the area.
But apparently Concord residents are heavily not in favor of removing the traffic lights, and those are the only folks who can have a say what happens with the highway through their town, apparently.
6:10 💀 the shape
These interchanges are common in middle east. There is usually a collector running along the highway or small connections to the highway, which conect to the local streets. These local street/connector only connect to one side of the highway, which is why the u turns are necessary.
But you can just loop around on the roundabout.
"Turbo roundabouts" are pretty common and I am seeing more and more of them in Slovakia where I am from.
They've become quite a hit in Poland too, I guess it's just a more modern form implemented when a roundabout is built from ground up
Yeah, they're super common in the Netherlands as well.
we have something here called a texas u turn. every inter section has u turns that go under over passes. mainly they are on frontage roads next to highways and freeways. would love to look into making a texas u turn in the game. thanks.
We commoners need more videos like these instead of only patreon
That issue at 9:00 made me stop cities skylines 2 for a while tbh. Got sick of having to completely rebuild some parts of the city because the cims can't think ahead but do 3 point turns at the end.
The anarchy mod is already available on ThunderStore.
The hell is ThunderStore?
In Michigan we call it a Michigan Left. Grand Rapids has a TON of these but not quite to this complexity
I would like you to do a video on AI generating a photo of a city and love the editing btw
There is no more merging than a normal roundabout, the problem is the sharp turns.
Matt, you NEED to take a Cities Skylines 2 lesson/walkthrough from Biffa(or just any RUclips tutorial). You are missing so many important things that make this game good.
Fair advice if the man wasn't purposefully playing a fool.
True silence is the rest of the mind; it is to the spirit what sleep is to the body, nourishment and refreshment.
Day 56 of asking Matt to play pvz
13:55 as a dutch person (no engineering degree but doesn’t matter here) the turbo roundabout is intended to remove weaving accidents on multiple lane roundabouts, and create faster through traffic from the highway onto the by-way. It isn’t very standard but quite common when there is alot of flow in 2 directions from the roundabout and not alot from the other two directions. For other situations, lots of traffic in 4 directions we tend to use traffic lights or a proper interchange.
Points of collision on turbo roundabouts is very low. However, as the first example showed, cities skylines doesn’t care as much about people’s lives, any more than American policymakers do
Just watched a little further. You really struggle with this like an American. I just laughed at how bad your turbo-roundabout looks. It is atrocious, both in visuals and practicality.
He went on a whiskey diet and immediately lost three days.
On the off-chance this comment gets read. Matt. Left click adds Restrictions/functions to roads, right click removes them. So taking the no left turn away is as easy as selecting it and right click. Same goes with the stripey things (sorry, forget what they are called, we call 'em zebra stripes)
I liked my own comment
The first intersection you recreated might only work with right hand drive roads because of the associated driving directions.
They work if one of the roads goes straight through the intersection and doesn't allow left turns. At that point, it's basically a Michigan left and those are pretty efficient.
Wow. A 70 MPH U turn. Thats gonna be interesting to see.
To remove something from a road or junction, you can select the thing you want gone and press right click instead of left.
As for changing the extra lane to the other side, you can click the road and drag in the direction you want it to go. It'll show up in the preview too.
The cheapest intersection that provides safety is the roundabout. The cheapest and fastest for cars is the 4 way stop (assuming no signals for either).
If AI are able to follow road rules perfectly, then you can make a bidirectional roundabout that is more efficient for car movements (kind of similar to the idea of a turbo roundabout). Yet this means human drivers have at least 2x more opportunities to fuck up.
Nice exploration here!
This road junction could work if the two uturns were set to go straight through. 1 underneath and the other over head.
Love that you tested it. 💕
Day 153 of asking Matt to add the Second Narrows Bridge, Ironworkers Memorial to the Wheel of Bridgetune
It is a cantilevered truss bridge, carrying 6 lanes of traffic from Vancouver to North Vancouver in B.C. across the second narrowing of the Burrard Inlet.
It's name comes from the fact that it collapsed twice during construction, which unalived 23 people in total (Hence the name, ironworkers memorial).
I love how they had people going at near 90 degree angles and merging into roundabouts while going 70 mph
this is implemented in real life a CBE ( or a town in Tamil Nadu, India ) replaced all signals into U turns
oh yeah we have those interchanges in my city
they only make traffic worse because cars going straight need to cut across 3 or 4 lanes _twice_
add to that same road disappearing lanes and associated pavement (just yeeting you onto dirt), large rocks in random places, decade-old paint that was already faded a couple of years in, and no lights on most of the road (the areas where these intersections are do have them tho) and it makes for a very fun road
In Long Beach, California there exists a roundabout originally created in time for the 1932 Olympics to handle the increased traffic volume in the region. Five streets meet here: Pacific Coast Highway (twice), Lakewood Blvd, & Los Coyotes Diagonal. The intersection has been adjusted a few times over the decades but now includes a partial turbo section that I think still invites confusion, particularly travelling northbound on one of two lanes on PCH entering just before Los Coyotes. Inner lane people sometimes enter the round into the outer lane, cutting off outer lane people, & needing to exit onto Lakewood Blvd northbound. Maybe this was the best solution to a difficult traffic problem.
Last year I went on a road trip through England and Scotland and I got ptsd from all of the weird roundabout constructions. Why do you guys make it so complicated 😂
I love that you keep reminding us that you drive on the other side of the road. I can only imagine how many comments you've received saying that you're going the wrong way lol
Hey Matt, you actually taught me about cloverleaf interchanges through your Cities skylines gameplay, so when my dad mentioned it the other day I knew what he was talking about! (For some context; I'm 21 but can't legally drive because of neurological issues that would make working everything at once difficult.)
I think the intersection idea isnt so bad if you have very minimal through traffic on the NB and SB parts.
This design of road way is used in UAE!
A lot and it works great! It’s not supposed to be on a highway or freeway, it’s actually apart of the city streets as UAE has high medians and fences to keep people from being able to turn around. This actually works fantastic in UAE, don’t have to stop for a light or sign to turn around and go back the other direction!
lol where i live in germany we have two of very similar intersections. They are called "eggs" and were made in the 50s and 60s. It's basically designed to avoid left hand turns over the oncoming lane and the need to build expensive bridges, so if you want to go left, you pass the exit, turn arround und turn right. So yeah quite similar to a round about, but with straight lanes trough and designed for much more traffic. I find them brilliant solutions, because theese "eggs" are so simple, yet effective.
If you're walking down the right path and you're willing to keep walking, eventually you'll make progress.
10:00 So... triangles are BESTangles?
Real Architect here!
You haven't understood the turbo roundabout as you showed. I am from the Netherlands where they are everywhere. On the entry you cross only one lane with traffic so you can merge faster on the roundabout and you (generally) never switch lanes on the roundabout before you exit. Just make sure to pick the right lane before you enter the roundabout as it determines your options for exiting.
Btw look how compact it is compared to yours ;)
I think a series like this would be a good idea, a kind of 'Does this popular design work?' or 'Interchange myth busters.' it would be very informative for people trying to design interchanges, both in game and in real life, plus it will actually test the popular designs instead of people just accepting them because they look nice. (Like the architects they are.)
4:40 "left arm is right" !
Awesome, I love it 🤪
The stack interchange is the best interchange. A turbine interchange is simply an architects spiral dream. Good day sir.
I was literally thinking when the game came out "Once the game is matured enough so turbo roundabouts are possible, I will get it" :D So I'm glad to see this video explaining the complications!
CHALLENGES, MYTHS, AND FACTS FOR RCE [MATT] TO TRY
-In CS1 you could empty your cemetery and graveyard completely by leaving them on a perpetual removal and having crematorium and garbage processing levels in at least yellow, thus never giving you a demand for more cemeteries and landfills. Does it still work in CS2.
-Buses are more efficient and profitable than trains/metro
Challenge: 25% of income is from PT [ridiculous right?]
-Fact: your city's traffic is great with the absence of buses.
Challenge: build a city where your expressways and/or major arteries as well as the bus lines are all below and i guess above the surface since you love bridges so much. Preference to below though.... I know you can fight the urge to bridge everything for the sake of a challenge, Matt... or can you? ;)
Sadly my PC is outdated at the moment and my Cities Skylines 2 sits in my inventory all pristen as i sit back and watch your videos while eating my lunches , but perhaps you can look into these. Side note, as a carpenter, you reinvigorate my sanity revolving around poorly designed structures that make me want to drag the artsy idiot that dreamed it up through the streets on their belly. lol sorry, im bitter at work today for obvious reasons.
I want to see Matt’s attempt of a diverging diamond in Engitwopia
20:41 I don't know if you'd noticed this yet, but there's traffic lights when leaving the roundabout, making traffic halt inside of it....
Also.. Have you considered making the bits that overlap when entering/leaving the roundabout, raised platforms, so that they don't have to give way? It should be single lanes anyway, cars in CS2 really don't know how to merge
We have a couple of turbo roundabouts in a city near where I live and they are garbage, unnecessarily confusing and annoying especially if you don't drive on them very often
Ah yes. Want to go straight to stay on the highway? Make a turn, merge, uturn, merge, and turn. Very efficient.
The u turn bits are a way to avoid having intersections elsewhere nearby on the road and to avoid building overpasses/underpasses. They only function properly when there are other similar intersections, or at least similar u turn spots, on the same road. Also, the spots where cars were merging and going through each other can be made 100x better by having 2 lanes going off. That way cars only need to change lanes if they want to go straight or go around the other side. This intersection is literally just a square roundabout with u turn lanes before the roundabout.
This intersection is a roundabout... Ok, rectangleabout... Only you don't have to go completely around it to go back the way you came (which every roundabout gives you the option to do), which reduces the traffic on the roundabout itself.
The problem is the tight turns and the fact that people wanting to go back the way they came is a tiny fraction of the traffic.
This type of intersection is used in busy areas not on highways we have a lot of them here in Saudi Arabia which was were the original video was from
The benefits of the Turbine Interchange isn't increased capacity - its to avoid a 3 or even 4 level interchange.
We have great interchanges that work better or as good a turbine, but they require a ton of structure. The Turbine works good when you have a ton of land so you avoid the cost of multi-level interchanges.
We have some roundabouts like that turbo roundabout where I'm at (us). Usually used at intersections with a four lane main road (two each way) and a two lane road. Your main road keeps two lanes each way, right lane for right and straight, left lane for straight and left. The minor road only has one lane(except an occasional right turn only onto the main road). On the minor road the one lane goes every direction. I think whatever you were trying to set up was more complex than it was supposed to be
Had a thought: maybe a collab with Biffa. 2 engineering minds doing a traffic management challenge, or bouncing ideas in a video series. Would be a cool video!😊
I'm pretty certain the reason for wacky designs, is that even the most efficient roads can become clogged, but some people just can't accept that.
The real solution to too much traffic, is to have less traffic, as in create modal shifts with things like buses, or trains.
This new design is indeed free of traficlights, but it doesn't do anything to mitegate the amount of points of conflicts in the setup. Also, I'd at minimum add two bridges crossing over the middle so if you are arriving at a wider side you can cross over immidiety without having to do a big driver-around to get through.
The turbine interchange is far supperior in that there is little to none points of conflict in the layout if done correrctly. The problem however occours if too many vehicles tries to use the same one exit
I think the idea with the u-turn lanes is so that this interchange can scale to different situations. If it's being marketed as a "Roundabout Killer" then it would need to serve all of the same functions, U-turning being one of them. I've definitely needed to make a u-turn in a roundabout before. On a highway it may not be necessary but if you're getting more residential or rural cases (if you have a rural road with farms off of it, it can be easy to miss a turn especially if there's shrubbery)