This is great, Thomas. I've been thinking about a system like this off and on for 15+ years. I'm happy to see you've taken the initiative and applied your talents to bring something like this to reality.
I'm building a tryke myself, mine has tilting capability and a cabin for added aero, safety and weather protection. I post on my channel whenever i make some progress on the project for those who want to check it. Your project is very cool and has some nifty ideas.
The number of likes is testament that your project here has much interest. I say, take advantage and create kits. Kits allow others to innovate and to get involved. Also create a Patron channel and make pathways to continue your great work.
@@forschungsbuero As in ironless axial flux generator possibly using the Litz wire? Now that has my attention. I'm thinking about construction of my own series hybrid recumbent tricycle. The motor will be maybe this one www.leafbike.com/products/e-bike-hub-motor/48v-52v-1500w-front-spoke-hub-motor-electric-bike-motor-1063.html (efficiency up to 90.5% which is impressive). But the generator with about 200W output... thats hard to come by. And directly driven one, without gearing... unheard off. It would be able to generate up to 200W with only about 90-100RPM.
This is so inefficient as far as distance you will travel vs. time and effort put into pedaling that I can't imagine any benefit that could redeem it. A chain and sprocket drive is 98% efficient. This trike has a sprocket & chain to the generator, so already you are at 98%, the generator is only 80-90% of that 98%, the battery accepts a charge at 65-80% of that, outputs only 65-80% and the electric motor is only 80 to 90% efficient. You end up with about 30 something percent efficiency at best in a heavy, expensive, complex vehicle compared to a regular trike that has a 98% efficient drivetrain. At best you would travel only 10 miles for the same effort that could get you 30 miles! This might be a hard sell merely due to complexity and price even if it's drivetrain was 100% efficient. Somebody tell me what percent efficiency would it need to have for you to pay a lot more for a trike you could charge by pedaling as well as plugging it in and/or using a solar cell?
@@denbecr49 internal combusion engins are 20-35% effcient and that is what most of the world uses to get around. average person could care less and not having the super long chain from pedal to wheels makes for a much easier to build trike
@@solarroofing8072 If that's all that counts, start with a unicycle, add a frame with 2 rear wheels and enjoy lightweight single speed high efficiency with no chain.
Could you expand on using the motor as a generator? The idea got me. What does the RPM ratio (between the driving motor and the generator) have to be in order to generate enough current so it can be chanelled directly onto the driving motor? Or maybe using 2 generators would increase the power output?
Driving motor and generator are completely independent. The power is buffered by the battery. Why would you leave the battery and link generator and motor directly? I think that would cause some problems on the motor controller. But I can imangine, to use the generator output to set the speed of the motor controller. Then you dont have a throttle grip. You get more motor power, when you pedal stronger and faster. Two generators are not necessary. The one is powerful enough. The faster you pedal, the stronger you have to push.
1. Re-chargeble battaries (Li-ion and others) are quite expensive. 2. They have limited capacity, take up some space and add up some extra weight. 3. If a generator can generate enough power for the motor, it's almost free energy, you don't need to re-charge a generator, in which case the battary becomes unnecessary (just my own point of view). As for controllers....aren't they subject to be designed for performing different tasks? Same as different motors have different charachteristics, I suppose controllers can be designed differently as well (at least theoretically). Also, I wonder what's the power of your motor? The difference (in power) between your motor and the 250W generator must be severafold if you have to pedal too fast; and that's considering the fact that the ratio between the sprockets (the one you pedal and the one attached to the generator): is 5 to 1 (25 sm and 5 sm)...I suppose. When you pedal the generator, do you have to surpass the (motor's potential) 160 Rpm threshold before it starts generating power? and the power generated by lower than 160 Rpm is "eated-up" by itsef? If that's the case, then I guess it makes sense using a generator with lower Rpm threshold...
Yes, that's the great thing about a capacitor, it can be charged & discharged with no loss of performance, un-like a chemical battery. So the motor can run at a constant whilst other conditions can change, pedalling output, assents dissents, is also nice to have some stored power for standing starts.But I still don't know how much power I can make for the motor. In the gym I ride a WATT bike & put out an Av 200w = 17mph, but I don't know how that translates to a motor, I'm doubting I'd get 17mph or would I???
Beautiful engineering! It looks like it has a very smooth ride - and is very quick too! Do you have any feedback for net energy usage on the battery, or have any indicator of energy remaining in the battery? How does it react when the battery gets low? I like how you can generate power when stationary, in case it runs out of power, then you can recharge somewhere in the shade or a place with a beautiful view. Nice job!
From the meter it looks like you are making enough power to make the bike go, would it be possible to use a capacitor instead of a heavy battery? Or bigger dynamo/gearing?
This is great! I've been thinking about a similar project. What speeds would you achieve by powering the motor directly from the generator without a battery?
Very nice , but try to go to higher voltages and lower current ! Then your batteries will be drained less and will stay fit longer. Do you also use the BackEmf of your motor to recharge the batteries ? Have a look at SegelOhrenBob latest Bedini Scooter Video. Regards , Stefan.
@@michaeljohnson_ok You want to run your system at highest safe voltage. It saves energy which would be wasted as heat in wires, it also saves mass as you need much thinner wires
Is there a charge controller? I think efficiency is a big problem. How much benefit in terms of energy are you returning to the system to make this feasible?
Thomas Senkel! Very well done. He is a prime example of superior German engineering and technology. However something like that I'm sure could be used to power a boat.
+unhooked25 --- You DONK! HUhh! The Keyde motor is a known lemon which has made a lot of people rather upset at the sale's hype... It simply does not hold up and many times is delivered failing right out of the box... And you stand a great chance to have to threaten the bastards via Paypal to get them to service you properly! HUhh! I'd hate for this thing to flip me forward like a whip flat faced on the pavement under a heavy breaking scenario! or kiss the hard bumper of a tank passing by, huhh I mean a Smart Car! GERMAN ENGINEERING AND TECHNOLOGY LMAO! All I see is a copy-cat of all the systems already present in countless machines plastered all over the net. [ like the Carver, T-Rex, and dozens of others, etc...] huhhhhhh! buddy! what is so grandiose!? Perhaps good as a kids toy, a go-cart of sorts... hmmm roll-cage please! Best people BEWARE of your HYPE and do some due diligence and find out the better equipment... and don't dream you will be traveling in a go-cart surrounded by Smart Car size tanks! ...and you are sure it could power a boat! LMAO! yeah... the Hindenburg! You sound like the fake witness(crisis actor) in the street in New York who stated: "...and I am sure the towers collapsed due to the heat of the fire!!!..." LOL yeah! symmetrically, and at gravity speed! LMAO!
Superb design all the way around. I'd give this ten likes if I could -- it must be the best bike video I've seen all month, at least. 5kw motor power is insane! That'd power a smaller car around town. I think I need more sleep before the finer nuances of this design come through but you and your tricycle hit across why I came very close to parting with $3,000+ and did not -- lack of a good suspension. And I don't regret it because every trike rider I see I ask one question "If you could change one thing about the bike what would it be?" and so far ALL of them have said "I'd add suspension" or "shocks" or "a smoother ride" and I live in the most populated area with the largest density of bike paths in probably the whole midwest USA so I get to ask a lot of people on a lot of different bikes. Plus I never see one in the snow. Why is that?
It was mainly an idea, I wanted to try out. For McPherson, I would need extra structure, because I dont know where to mount the spring on top. On my new solar camper, I am using double wishbones of fiberglass (See my new videos on that). That works fine and is a lightweight and maintanance free solution.
The discussion is rather old, but the technical discussion is still relevant i believe. How is the feeling when you are pedalling ? I would expect that the feeling is different and a bit uncomfortable. The generator is creating a constant resistance torque. But the torque that a cyklist is creating is anything else than constant. The pedalarms are creating a TDC = Top Dead center. For that reason it is relevant to ask if the pedaling experience is uncomfortable ?
You are right. Pedalling this generator is different from a bike. What I will try next, is to have a motor controller in regenerative mode and modulate the power with each revolution. You could have different curves with different feeling. And a direct drive generator.
This is impressive. My question is, why not use such a large crank gear to directly drive the wheels? Is there not a significant loss of efficiency pedaling to generate electricity to charge a motor to power the wheels / axel? Is the only advantage that you can pedal like a treadmill at home, and then zip around with a fully charged battery later? What if you use all your battery, wouldn't you want to be able to just use the gear like a standard bike... it might be just as fast with such a large gear. How would either method do on hills? Lots of questions! I'm not a mechanical engineering, but I like to learn about this!
Great build mage. You change the pedal section a bit and ad a fly wheel to continue making charge after you stopped peddeling. Aslo could you add an ultra capacitor to take some of that large voltage and then carry in charging the batteries. Maybe both together could really reduce peddling time. Amazing build though and I'm very inspired by it. Would love to hear your views on my ideas xxx
I'm curious how efficient it might be directly, from generator to motor, without the battery buffer, and if perhaps gearing might be achieved with a transformer instead, interchanging volts with current. From strong but slow to fast but weak.
Ive considered this over the years, but for 2 reasons havemnt adopted it. 1) Its not legal to have an ebike on the road without direct mechanical drive to the wheel, in Ontario. 2) Adding energy to the system using a bicycle chain, is more efficient than a generator and rectifier. Still i respect like your work and like your videos.
Probably not. The motor can consume up to 5000 W, while the generator only gives 200 W or less. But it always depends on your driving style. You can drive slowly with less than 200 W, then it is sustainable.
buen dia Thomas, un proyecto muy interesante e ingenioso, tendras mas datos del generador que usaste, KEYDE 36volts, sin escobillas (brushlees)???, sin engranes (gearlees)??? que tantos wats entrega???, agradezco de antemano su atencion, saludos
+createthis 3 phase ALWAYS works better at slower (cars used generators at 3-5k rpms and this is why they all use 3 phase "alternators" now -- it is really still a generator but a 3 phase one. 3 phase means industrial and the parts are now relatively inexpensive but have much better stats all around (and continue to be improved while the avg home appliance be it a blender to a vacuum cleaner are all brushed series wound motors -- far from the beauty of 3 phase products. Look atop/aside bldgs and you will see every AC unit being driven by a 3 ph motor. almost everything inside your house comes from a factory where 3 phase motors are used to make everything from your computer to your furniture. For decades it has been like this). But the simple one point bottom line answer is: RPMs. permanent magnet one phase motors would not produce enough voltage until about 3 times the rpms and then they are not as efficient. This guy is an excellent designer. He knows his sh1t.
with something similar,can you make a bike that is mostly manual but get a big or small boost if needed? would a crank type generator hooked to a motor work?
3 questions: 1. What kind of hub motor (high torque or high rpm) is best suited to use as a generator? 2. If you built your own motor for pushing your trike, doesn't it make sense to build your own generator as well? 3. If you use 2 (or more) generators instead of one, is it not possible to channel the voltage/current generated by them directly into the main motor thus eliminating the need for battary?
1. High torque! You want to have lowest rpm as possible. Need a step up gear anyway. 2. Shure. I am working on that idea, but have many other projects. I would make a generator coaxial to the pedals. No chain anymore. 3. No need for that. See my other comment.
A very nice project, congrats. question: do you sell the motor plans? I have a recumbent trike and your idea inspire me to build one similar to yours. thanks for your information and keep going.
You don't really need separate generator/motor units and no way will the rider be able to provide the force needed to keep the batteries charged. Most hub motors can be switched to generator (regen) mode through it's controller. You may then be able to take advantage of kinetic/pedal power to replenish the battery.
Such a great idea I love it! What if you added a flywheel on a freewheel to your cranks? You could get it cranking and then stop pedaling while it keeps spinning acting like a mechanical capacitor. Great video
Can this be done with recumbent elliptical exercisers that do not have pedals? I have limited mobility and cannot rotate my knees to pedal. I want to create energy with the elliptical exercisers I see. Do you know if this is possible?
me encantaria realizar un proyecto asi me podrias decir que precio tiene el motor generador y el motor power de ante mano muchas gracias me encanto tu video
Amazing... but... if you use super capacitors your recharge to the capacitor would be more efficient than charging a battery. what a home exercise machine.. I love it. best video I've seen.
Hi just came across your video and know nothing about electrics of any sort, so wondered if there is any reason why you wouldn't mount generator to an already turning wheel instead of having to pedal to charge your battery, cheers
Hi, congratulations, nice work!One question: is this a motor with internal gear or is it a direct drive?i heard that hubs with internal gears won’t work as a generator...thanks for some insight!
Question, why not set up a nice gearing system so you have more speed while charging the battery? If you keep the gears nice I'm pretty sure you'd be able to get a lot more energy without sweating too badly
Nice job, fine craftmenship..I believe that a hover board motor has enough pole (16-20) that it would be possible set it up as direct-drive (no chain) pedales right to generator. I don't want to see you labor to much.. but sure love to see that on one of your projects. Good Luck!
you installed a generator, do you ride bicycles only on electricity from the generator or do you charge the battery on the bicycle. if you can explain to me. I'm currently building 2 bikes, and this idea of yours is great..
i have one question, is it better foot making energy go to generator and make volts and charge, and use this energy to motor, instead of directly foot to wheel , i guess, direct foot to wheel may be better? but your way is saving volts and using batteries already charged one also, .. i m confused ..
Interressanter Ansatz. Aber wahrscheinlich in Summe leider eher ineffektiv durch Wirkungsgradveruste. Hast Du Werte zu Stromerzeugung Wh/h und Verbrauch Wh/h im Flachland?
Ja, sicherlich gibt es einige Verluste. Aber sieh es als Elektromobil mit der Möglichkeit, zusätzlich zu treten. Generator hat bis zu 200 W (=Wh/h), während der Motor bis zu 5000 W bringen kann, natürlich immer abhängig vom Fahrstil.
Don't know if you you still use this link? Could you tell me what brand of batteries you use, and what a comparable/ compatible motor will be, and what type of hardware used to splice this altogether?
You came up with a brilliant concept, similar to a hybrid electric automobile! Can you tell that it's harder to pedal when going up a hill or does the battery pack act as a buffer so that you can barely notice a difference?
Sorry, no plans for that. I built it "on the fly". The front hubs are standard MTB hubs with 20 mm hollow axle, and the steering knuckle is welded from aluminum parts.
3 amp output 15 amp draw....How much does it charge going down a hill? I'm thinking of this idea but just have it run off the wheel so its always charging then on big bills you have a throttle for assistance.
I don't get the point: mechanical energy->electricity->chemical energy->electricity->mechanical.... with so many transformation there is a big loss of energy. Which is the goal of this project? Thanks.
You recognized right in the first place, but on the otherside, this way one can replace the battery with supercapacitors, that are never going to get old, and so, save money... Also the transformation loses are lower with the capacitors, which are usable only in this concrete case/example of serial hybrid...
heecabot75 isn't he charging the battery by pedaling and then using the battery to run his electric motor (of his own design) to haul balls down the street like a boss? thats what I got at least lol c=
it´s true Nichloas, but in this case, he could also use Supercapacitors, .... it´s a hybrid, like Prius, of Human/electro-nature, and it´s a trike, so it´s economical compared to bicycles, that´s why supercaps would be even better than batteries...!
Almost all e-bikes have regenerative braking, so, the batteries are loaded, when the driver is pedaling, or braking, or going down a hill. But they have a lot of aerodynamic resistance, so the need , firstly, fully loaded betteries, with , let´s say , 300Wh... with an economical, more aerodynamic trike like this, you can replace these 300Wh, with just 100Wh of exactly as bulky and expensive supercaps, and so enjoy the advantages of supercaps, without weight- or price-disadvantages...... the advantages, as sayed, are supercaps -longlivety, and higher energy-boosts!!!
Hi Thomas I thought you was busy enough with the Evolo ;-) *** Very clever/skilled made Trike I think ! But isn’t efficiency quite low (in the long way of the series-hybrid ) from pedelling to generator to battery and from battery to motor ? Please correct me if I am wrong... !? For example if losses included from the 2 times chain-ratio motor-backwheel and pedal-generator = efficiency of generator maybe 75% x efficiency of motor maybe 75% = 0,75 x 0,75 = 0,56 = 56% , minus maybee a 6% percent losses in the rectifier and battery charging/discharging proces = efficiency of only 50% or half the enegy lost ! ) But if pedeling the back wheel directly through gears like on a normal trike you get maybee efficiency of 95% or only 5% losses in the gearsystem And keep the motor and battery on the trike as a (parallel hybrid) which is a very usefull and pleasent combination. And if the battery run low there is no problems is pedeling home without electricity support, like on a normal trike NB: My very best luck and support to Your Evolo project !
It is a Keyde front hub motor, 36V. I bought it on Ebay a couple of years ago, but I dont see the seller anymore. Try on Aliexpress. You can use other hub motors, too. But they are probably heavier (than 1,4 kg).
Hey, that's pretty cool. I'm looking to install two Sturmey Archer Dynamo hubs in my Quest Velomobile soon along with 45 watts of solar panels. I've been looking for a simple solution to convert the AC current supplied from the hubs into DC current. The output needs to be 12-15 volts, so I'll use a regulator. That would the plug into a solar charger, then charging a battery. The bridge rectifier that you used would seem to provide that solution. Do you have a link to it, or perhaps the specs, model number etc? I'd greatly appreciate that, thanks.
Hi. Can the output connected to an inverter? Then use the output from the inverter to powered a DC power supply for a direct drive without any battery? Just curious will it powered directly by pedalling.
I think, this would not be practical, because the motor controller is turned on and off with pedalling. It would be better, if it is backed up with a battery.
This is great, Thomas. I've been thinking about a system like this off and on for 15+ years. I'm happy to see you've taken the initiative and applied your talents to bring something like this to reality.
Pls can you explain it further to me
@@nnejiamaechi9385😢wonderful.video..please make us understand this...
Die Ausführung ist einfach so perfekt, die ganzen schönen Drehteile, geschweißter Alurahmen, eigens gebauter Motor. Unglaublich!
I'm building a tryke myself, mine has tilting capability and a cabin for added aero, safety and weather protection. I post on my channel whenever i make some progress on the project for those who want to check it. Your project is very cool and has some nifty ideas.
The number of likes is testament that your project here has much interest. I say, take advantage and create kits. Kits allow others to innovate and to get involved. Also create a Patron channel and make pathways to continue your great work.
I will think about that. But first, I will build a direct drive generator.
@@forschungsbuero I will the first one to support your work by joining your Patron channel.
@@forschungsbuero As in ironless axial flux generator possibly using the Litz wire? Now that has my attention. I'm thinking about construction of my own series hybrid recumbent tricycle. The motor will be maybe this one www.leafbike.com/products/e-bike-hub-motor/48v-52v-1500w-front-spoke-hub-motor-electric-bike-motor-1063.html (efficiency up to 90.5% which is impressive). But the generator with about 200W output... thats hard to come by. And directly driven one, without gearing... unheard off. It would be able to generate up to 200W with only about 90-100RPM.
can you make a video showing the building process of the bike? And go into detail on the motor and stuff like that?
Goods
Absolutely a genius idea, so well executed with wonderful precision. My hat is off to you.
This is so inefficient as far as distance you will travel vs. time and effort put into pedaling that I can't imagine any benefit that could redeem it.
A chain and sprocket drive is 98% efficient. This trike has a sprocket & chain to the generator, so already you are at 98%, the generator is only 80-90% of that 98%, the battery accepts a charge at 65-80% of that, outputs only 65-80% and the electric motor is only 80 to 90% efficient. You end up with about 30 something percent efficiency at best in a heavy, expensive, complex vehicle compared to a regular trike that has a 98% efficient drivetrain. At best you would travel only 10 miles for the same effort that could get you 30 miles!
This might be a hard sell merely due to complexity and price even if it's drivetrain was 100% efficient. Somebody tell me what percent efficiency would it need to have for you to pay a lot more for a trike you could charge by pedaling as well as plugging it in and/or using a solar cell?
@@denbecr49 internal combusion engins are 20-35% effcient and that is what most of the world uses to get around. average person could care less and not having the super long chain from pedal to wheels makes for a much easier to build trike
@@solarroofing8072
If that's all that counts, start with a unicycle, add a frame with 2 rear wheels and enjoy lightweight single speed high efficiency with no chain.
Excellent! I am a sun power fan, so I would add a 250W panel acting both as a roof and as some extra power.
What a great design, impressed by the quality of the built !
Simply great. Electronic transmission - no chains or like. Perfect.
I wonder what kind of efficiency could be achieved this way. I'm sure lots of people would love to never have to tune a derailleur again.
Until you run low on power, and then you're kicking yourself for not having a physical transmission.
Could you expand on using the motor as a generator? The idea got me.
What does the RPM ratio (between the driving motor and the generator) have to be in order to generate enough current so it can be chanelled directly onto the driving motor? Or maybe using 2 generators would increase the power output?
Driving motor and generator are completely independent. The power is buffered by the battery. Why would you leave the battery and link generator and motor directly? I think that would cause some problems on the motor controller. But I can imangine, to use the generator output to set the speed of the motor controller. Then you dont have a throttle grip. You get more motor power, when you pedal stronger and faster.
Two generators are not necessary. The one is powerful enough. The faster you pedal, the stronger you have to push.
1. Re-chargeble battaries (Li-ion and others) are quite expensive.
2. They have limited capacity, take up some space and add up some extra weight.
3. If a generator can generate enough power for the motor, it's almost free energy, you don't need to re-charge a generator, in which case the battary becomes unnecessary (just my own point of view).
As for controllers....aren't they subject to be designed for performing different tasks?
Same as different motors have different charachteristics, I suppose controllers can be designed differently as well (at least theoretically).
Also, I wonder what's the power of your motor? The difference (in power) between your motor and the 250W generator must be severafold if you have to pedal too fast; and that's considering the fact that the ratio between the sprockets (the one you pedal and the one attached to the generator): is 5 to 1 (25 sm and 5 sm)...I suppose.
When you pedal the generator, do you have to surpass the (motor's potential) 160 Rpm threshold before it starts generating power? and the power generated by lower than 160 Rpm is "eated-up" by itsef?
If that's the case, then I guess it makes sense using a generator with lower Rpm threshold...
Can't the power be buffered by a capacitor instead of a battary?
Yes, that's the great thing about a capacitor, it can be charged & discharged with no loss of performance, un-like a chemical battery. So the motor can run at a constant whilst other conditions can change, pedalling output, assents dissents, is also nice to have some stored power for standing starts.But I still don't know how much power I can make for the motor. In the gym I ride a WATT bike & put out an Av 200w = 17mph, but I don't know how that translates to a motor, I'm doubting I'd get 17mph or would I???
hmmm
please upload blue print too and can I use this plan in bicycle?
Very nice series hybrid EV.. kudos
Beautiful engineering! It looks like it has a very smooth ride - and is very quick too! Do you have any feedback for net energy usage on the battery, or have any indicator of energy remaining in the battery? How does it react when the battery gets low? I like how you can generate power when stationary, in case it runs out of power, then you can recharge somewhere in the shade or a place with a beautiful view. Nice job!
i need more details regarding hub motor ,generator, and battery configuration plz
From the meter it looks like you are making enough power to make the bike go, would it be possible to use a capacitor instead of a heavy battery? Or bigger dynamo/gearing?
This is great! I've been thinking about a similar project. What speeds would you achieve by powering the motor directly from the generator without a battery?
Very nice , but try to go to higher voltages and lower current ! Then your batteries will be drained less and will stay fit longer.
Do you also use the BackEmf of your motor to recharge the batteries ? Have a look at SegelOhrenBob latest Bedini Scooter Video.
Regards , Stefan.
Michael Johnson sir I have no idea and I am curious as to if they actually run out of power at different times, or they just are the same?
Kind of like a pound of feathers and a pound of stones no? It's all relative...
Michael Johnson the 24v system will be more efficient, since it will waste less power in the transfer of current.
@@michaeljohnson_ok You want to run your system at highest safe voltage. It saves energy which would be wasted as heat in wires, it also saves mass as you need much thinner wires
Is there a charge controller? I think efficiency is a big problem. How much benefit in terms of energy are you returning to the system to make this feasible?
Really awesome design and idea! I hope you keep this project going!
as soon as i saw you were machining parts i knew it wasn't a simple DIY
Thomas Senkel! Very well done. He is a prime example of superior German engineering and technology. However something like that I'm sure could be used to power a boat.
+unhooked25 --- You DONK!
HUhh! The Keyde motor is a known lemon which has made a lot of people rather upset at the sale's hype... It simply does not hold up and many times is delivered failing right out of the box...
And you stand a great chance to have to threaten the bastards via Paypal to get them to service you properly!
HUhh! I'd hate for this thing to flip me forward like a whip flat faced on the pavement under a heavy breaking scenario! or kiss the hard bumper of a tank passing by, huhh I mean a Smart Car!
GERMAN ENGINEERING AND TECHNOLOGY LMAO!
All I see is a copy-cat of all the systems already present in countless machines plastered all over the net. [ like the Carver, T-Rex, and dozens of others, etc...] huhhhhhh! buddy! what is so grandiose!?
Perhaps good as a kids toy, a go-cart of sorts... hmmm roll-cage please!
Best people BEWARE of your HYPE and do some due diligence and find out the better equipment... and don't dream you will be traveling in a go-cart surrounded by Smart Car size tanks!
...and you are sure it could power a boat! LMAO! yeah... the Hindenburg!
You sound like the fake witness(crisis actor) in the street in New York who stated: "...and I am sure the towers collapsed due to the heat of the fire!!!..." LOL yeah! symmetrically, and at gravity speed!
LMAO!
Probably you are right and the Keyde is a very poor bicycle motor, but it works very well as a generator. And is very light weight.
Superb design all the way around. I'd give this ten likes if I could -- it must be the best bike video I've seen all month, at least. 5kw motor power is insane! That'd power a smaller car around town. I think I need more sleep before the finer nuances of this design come through but you and your tricycle hit across why I came very close to parting with $3,000+ and did not -- lack of a good suspension.
And I don't regret it because every trike rider I see I ask one question "If you could change one thing about the bike what would it be?"
and so far ALL of them have said "I'd add suspension" or "shocks" or "a smoother ride" and I live in the most populated area with the largest density of bike paths in probably the whole midwest USA so I get to ask a lot of people on a lot of different bikes. Plus I never see one in the snow. Why is that?
I would like to see plans for your bike - especially the front suspension. Looked very interesting.
Wonderful. Please let us know have you used Charge controller for battery charging or direct connection from rectifier.
Di mana bisa beli generator tersebut? How mach?
Ingenius design. Hats off to your engineering. Why the fiber glass bars and not a double wish bone or McPherson style ? Was weight an issue?
It was mainly an idea, I wanted to try out. For McPherson, I would need extra structure, because I dont know where to mount the spring on top. On my new solar camper, I am using double wishbones of fiberglass (See my new videos on that). That works fine and is a lightweight and maintanance free solution.
The discussion is rather old, but the technical discussion is still relevant i believe.
How is the feeling when you are pedalling ?
I would expect that the feeling is different and a bit uncomfortable. The generator is creating a constant resistance torque. But the torque that a cyklist is creating is anything else than constant. The pedalarms are creating a TDC = Top Dead center.
For that reason it is relevant to ask if the pedaling experience is uncomfortable ?
You are right. Pedalling this generator is different from a bike. What I will try next, is to have a motor controller in regenerative mode and modulate the power with each revolution. You could have different curves with different feeling. And a direct drive generator.
This is impressive. My question is, why not use such a large crank gear to directly drive the wheels? Is there not a significant loss of efficiency pedaling to generate electricity to charge a motor to power the wheels / axel? Is the only advantage that you can pedal like a treadmill at home, and then zip around with a fully charged battery later? What if you use all your battery, wouldn't you want to be able to just use the gear like a standard bike... it might be just as fast with such a large gear. How would either method do on hills? Lots of questions! I'm not a mechanical engineering, but I like to learn about this!
Great build mage. You change the pedal section a bit and ad a fly wheel to continue making charge after you stopped peddeling.
Aslo could you add an ultra capacitor to take some of that large voltage and then carry in charging the batteries.
Maybe both together could really reduce peddling time.
Amazing build though and I'm very inspired by it.
Would love to hear your views on my ideas xxx
I'm curious how efficient it might be directly, from generator to motor, without the battery buffer, and if perhaps gearing might be achieved with a transformer instead, interchanging volts with current. From strong but slow to fast but weak.
super schöne Arbeit. Kannst du kurz (auch auf englich) die Vorteile gegenüber eines direkten Kettenantriebes auf die Räder erklären ?
Ive considered this over the years, but for 2 reasons havemnt adopted it.
1) Its not legal to have an ebike on the road without direct mechanical drive to the wheel, in Ontario.
2) Adding energy to the system using a bicycle chain, is more efficient than a generator and rectifier.
Still i respect like your work and like your videos.
could you provide better photos of the bike itself? im more interested in that than the special motor adapter
Wow, you are good damn engineer. Amazing work.
Excellent! Are you able to keep the battery charged all the time, just by pedaling?
Probably not. The motor can consume up to 5000 W, while the generator only gives 200 W or less. But it always depends on your driving style. You can drive slowly with less than 200 W, then it is sustainable.
@@forschungsbuero Thanks a lot!
buen dia Thomas, un proyecto muy interesante e ingenioso, tendras mas datos del generador que usaste, KEYDE 36volts, sin escobillas (brushlees)???, sin engranes (gearlees)??? que tantos wats entrega???, agradezco de antemano su atencion, saludos
Why use a brushless hub motor with a bridge rectifier instead of a permanent magnet dc motor?
+createthis 3 phase ALWAYS works better at slower (cars used generators at 3-5k rpms and this is why they all use 3 phase "alternators" now -- it is really still a generator but a 3 phase one. 3 phase means industrial and the parts are now relatively inexpensive but have much better stats all around (and continue to be improved while the avg home appliance be it a blender to a vacuum cleaner are all brushed series wound motors -- far from the beauty of 3 phase products. Look atop/aside bldgs and you will see every AC unit being driven by a 3 ph motor. almost everything inside your house comes from a factory where 3 phase motors are used to make everything from your computer to your furniture. For decades it has been like this).
But the simple one point bottom line answer is: RPMs. permanent magnet one phase motors would not produce enough voltage until about 3 times the rpms and then they are not as efficient. This guy is an excellent designer. He knows his sh1t.
So how fast does it go? 5kW should get you up to 40mph I would assume. My 1kW motor takes me up to 32mph for short bursts on flat.
Haben sie mal gemessen, wie effizient so ein Pedalgenerator ist?
with something similar,can you make a bike that is mostly manual but get a big or small boost if needed? would a crank type generator hooked to a motor work?
Thats beautiful craftsmanship and technique. You must be a German. Ser hoot!
3 questions:
1. What kind of hub motor (high torque or high rpm) is best suited to use as a generator?
2. If you built your own motor for pushing your trike, doesn't it make sense to build your own generator as well?
3. If you use 2 (or more) generators instead of one, is it not possible to channel the voltage/current generated by them directly into the main motor thus eliminating the need for battary?
1. High torque! You want to have lowest rpm as possible. Need a step up gear anyway.
2. Shure. I am working on that idea, but have many other projects. I would make a generator coaxial to the pedals. No chain anymore.
3. No need for that. See my other comment.
A very nice project, congrats.
question: do you sell the motor plans? I have a recumbent trike and your idea inspire me to build one similar to yours.
thanks for your information and keep going.
I also have a two wheel recumbent bike and it is a very good idea to solve the problem of the chain which interferes with the front wheel
You don't really need separate generator/motor units and no way will the rider be able to provide the force needed to keep the batteries charged. Most hub motors can be switched to generator (regen) mode through it's controller. You may then be able to take advantage of kinetic/pedal power to replenish the battery.
Hello. Thanks for posting. What is the efficiency of the pedaling => electric energy system?
can you do this without the lithium ion battery?
Hi, its really cool this project, please can you send again the free plans for aluminum parts?
Such a great idea I love it! What if you added a flywheel on a freewheel to your cranks? You could get it cranking and then stop pedaling while it keeps spinning acting like a mechanical capacitor. Great video
Is that kind of system suitable for charging lithium batteries which require constant current charging?
Very clean! A dustbin body faring and you will almost have a self propelled endless ride. Maybe a high tech tuk tuk!
Can this be done with recumbent elliptical exercisers that do not have pedals? I have limited mobility and cannot rotate my knees to pedal. I want to create energy with the elliptical exercisers I see. Do you know if this is possible?
me encantaria realizar un proyecto asi me podrias decir que precio tiene el motor generador y el motor power de ante mano muchas gracias me encanto tu video
No me recuerdo exactamente. El Keyde generador mas o menos 120 €. El motor he construido mismo.
if you put two sprockes on the generator you could power the electric motor and go far on a charege ? Will that work???
Amazing... but... if you use super capacitors your recharge to the capacitor would be more efficient than charging a battery.
what a home exercise machine.. I love it.
best video I've seen.
The hub you are using appears to be a geared hub. They freewheel. How you engage it so it generates power?
Instead of putting a sprocket on can you put a rubber wheel on and run it as a old style dynami off on of the wheels.
Hi just came across your video and know nothing about electrics of any sort, so wondered if there is any reason why you wouldn't mount generator to an already turning wheel instead of having to pedal to charge your battery, cheers
Hi, congratulations, nice work!One question: is this a motor with internal gear or is it a direct drive?i heard that hubs with internal gears won’t work as a generator...thanks for some insight!
Question, why not set up a nice gearing system so you have more speed while charging the battery? If you keep the gears nice I'm pretty sure you'd be able to get a lot more energy without sweating too badly
Wow, beautiful build!
Nice job, fine craftmenship..I believe that a hover board motor has enough pole (16-20) that it would be possible set it up as direct-drive (no chain) pedales right to generator. I don't want to see you labor to much.. but sure love to see that on one of your projects. Good Luck!
You can guide how to make the wiring and motor how many volleys, and how many teeth are moving.
hello, congratulations to the idea, and thanks for sharing ... where can I download the complete trike design?
you installed a generator, do you ride bicycles only on electricity from the generator or do you charge the battery on the bicycle. if you can explain to me. I'm currently building 2 bikes, and this idea of yours is great..
WHERE IS THAT PLACE ,WHERE YOUR CYCLING,EXCELLENT VIEW.
So, how much power are you making in comparison to how much you are using?
Are you not utilizing super caps inline with your generator and for both input and output (discharge) for battery?
No. Output from the rectifier goes directly to the battery.
This is where your workshop located. Good testing spot.
i have one question, is it better foot making energy go to generator and make volts and charge, and use this energy to motor, instead of directly foot to wheel , i guess, direct foot to wheel may be better? but your way is saving volts and using batteries already charged one also, .. i m confused ..
Interressanter Ansatz. Aber wahrscheinlich in Summe leider eher ineffektiv durch Wirkungsgradveruste. Hast Du Werte zu Stromerzeugung Wh/h und Verbrauch Wh/h im Flachland?
Ja, sicherlich gibt es einige Verluste. Aber sieh es als Elektromobil mit der Möglichkeit, zusätzlich zu treten. Generator hat bis zu 200 W (=Wh/h), während der Motor bis zu 5000 W bringen kann, natürlich immer abhängig vom Fahrstil.
Nice job on the suspension system and a really good no fuss video. Thanks
Don't know if you you still use this link? Could you tell me what brand of batteries you use, and what a comparable/ compatible motor will be, and what type of hardware used to splice this altogether?
So 160rpm at 36v has nothing to do with like a 160kv motor rated max 29v right 😧 those are totally different specs ?
Great design! Thanks for sharing, I will definitively try it on my trike.
Such a great design and output... 💯💯
Hello have you done any videos about that bike you are using that generator??!!??
You came up with a brilliant concept, similar to a hybrid electric automobile! Can you tell that it's harder to pedal when going up a hill or does the battery pack act as a buffer so that you can barely notice a difference?
Generator and motor are completely independent and the battery acts as a buffer. No difference uphill or downhill.
Nice Trike Thomas, do you have plans for the stub axles and steering geer?
Sorry, no plans for that. I built it "on the fly". The front hubs are standard MTB hubs with 20 mm hollow axle, and the steering knuckle is welded from aluminum parts.
@@forschungsbuero thanks for the great video do you have more information on how to build this awesome trike?
What was it that you bought in that box there that was the perfect shape for your project?
Beautiful machine work. Very nice.
This works with capacitors or with gel bataries???
I love it. It is just what i need for my E-Trike. How much does it cost?
3 amp output 15 amp draw....How much does it charge going down a hill? I'm thinking of this idea but just have it run off the wheel so its always charging then on big bills you have a throttle for assistance.
What is the motor rated at. I understand that the EEC only allows a 250 watt motor.
Thats true for a so called pedelec. This trike would need registration limited to 45 km/h as an e-bike or as an e-motorcycle with more speed.
where did you get the clamps for the crank and for the generator? I cannot find such clamps for recumbent tricycle
The aluminum profile and the clamps are my own design. But you can use other fixation depending on the frame you have.
This is so cool! Love the engineering.
how did you build your own motor it looks great!
I am building my own trike and want to add electrical drive motor too.
Interested in building process too. Also, where are you from? Seems like really beautiful place. I'm really amazed by the surroundings.
What happens if you directly connect the generator to the motor? Without batteries?
Nice ETrike - Thanks for sharing.
Cheers, Patrick
brilliant machine - i want one! good luck with your project.
I don't get the point: mechanical energy->electricity->chemical energy->electricity->mechanical.... with so many transformation there is a big loss of energy. Which is the goal of this project? Thanks.
You recognized right in the first place, but on the otherside, this way one can replace the battery with supercapacitors, that are never going to get old, and so, save money... Also the transformation loses are lower with the capacitors, which are usable only in this concrete case/example of serial hybrid...
Love SuperCapacitors, so light & very useful :)
Is your generator an alternator as you said it has 3 phase?
heecabot75 isn't he charging the battery by pedaling and then using the battery to run his electric motor (of his own design) to haul balls down the street like a boss? thats what I got at least lol c=
it´s true Nichloas, but in this case, he could also use Supercapacitors, .... it´s a hybrid, like Prius, of Human/electro-nature, and it´s a trike, so it´s economical compared to bicycles, that´s why supercaps would be even better than batteries...!
Almost all e-bikes have regenerative braking, so, the batteries are loaded, when the driver is pedaling, or braking, or going down a hill. But they have a lot of aerodynamic resistance, so the need , firstly, fully loaded betteries, with , let´s say , 300Wh... with an economical, more aerodynamic trike like this, you can replace these 300Wh, with just 100Wh of exactly as bulky and expensive supercaps, and so enjoy the advantages of supercaps, without weight- or price-disadvantages......
the advantages, as sayed, are supercaps -longlivety, and higher energy-boosts!!!
Also, could you tell us more about the batteries?
You can use any battery. Mine is made from RC model LiPos. 10 packs with 6s 5000 mAh, connected to 12s5p. So I have 44 V and 25 Ah in each suitcase.
Are you living close to the farmers? I have made my hand crank generator n uploaded to my channel?
Marvellous. My thanks to you from Turkestan Kazakhstan.
Hi Thomas
I thought you was busy enough with the Evolo ;-)
***
Very clever/skilled made Trike I think !
But isn’t efficiency quite low (in the long way of the series-hybrid ) from pedelling to generator to battery and from battery to motor ?
Please correct me if I am wrong... !?
For example if losses included from the 2 times chain-ratio motor-backwheel and pedal-generator = efficiency of generator maybe 75% x efficiency of motor maybe 75% = 0,75 x 0,75 = 0,56 = 56% , minus maybee a 6% percent losses in the rectifier and battery charging/discharging proces = efficiency of only 50% or half the enegy lost ! )
But if pedeling the back wheel directly through gears like on a normal trike you get maybee efficiency of 95% or only 5% losses in the gearsystem
And keep the motor and battery on the trike as a (parallel hybrid) which is a very usefull and pleasent combination. And if the battery run low there is no problems is pedeling home without electricity support, like on a normal trike
NB:
My very best luck and support to Your Evolo project !
Hello Thomas
Could you put the reference of the motor/generator that you use to charge the batteries? Where did you buy it?
Thank you
It is a Keyde front hub motor, 36V. I bought it on Ebay a couple of years ago, but I dont see the seller anymore. Try on Aliexpress. You can use other hub motors, too. But they are probably heavier (than 1,4 kg).
Hey, that's pretty cool. I'm looking to install two Sturmey Archer Dynamo hubs in my Quest Velomobile soon along with 45 watts of solar panels. I've been looking for a simple solution to convert the AC current supplied from the hubs into DC current. The output needs to be 12-15 volts, so I'll use a regulator. That would the plug into a solar charger, then charging a battery. The bridge rectifier that you used would seem to provide that solution. Do you have a link to it, or perhaps the specs, model number etc? I'd greatly appreciate that, thanks.
use a 3 phase motorcycle regulator/rectifire
Hi. Can the output connected to an inverter? Then use the output from the inverter to powered a DC power supply for a direct drive without any battery? Just curious will it powered directly by pedalling.
I think, this would not be practical, because the motor controller is turned on and off with pedalling. It would be better, if it is backed up with a battery.
Why did you choose to make your own motor instead of picking one of the many hub motors available?
How much did it cost to build this bike?